American English - "burger" as synonym for "minced meat"?

[lemanfan]

Here's a question for the Americans and Canadians from a foreigner:

Among my relatives in Alberta, Canada, i've heard the word "hamburger" being used as a synonym for minced meat.  Later I checked with both other Canadians (from the fast east of the nation) and British people I know and they would not use the word "hamburger" in that way.

Then earlier today I listened to a podcast where a hunter from northern USA (Wisconsin and Iowa, I think) said "and the rest of the deer meat was turned into burger", in a context referring to mincing the meat.

So... the question, dear North Americans, is this a common or widespread use of the word, or have I just stumbled across a few local expressions?

[Freedomin5]

I’m from Toronto, and I always called it ground beef, or ground pork, etc. To me, a hamburger is a beef patty sandwiched between two halves of a bun.

I have heard it used the way you describe it in your post but I wouldn’t say it’s very normal in my neck of the woods.

[Steeze]

Yes - burger is a common way of saying this. I would personally say ground beef if I was talking about beef, or ground pork if I was talking about pork though. If I was talking about “turning the rest of the deer into burger” then that would be understood as minced meat.

Can even be shortened, “I’m headed to the store to get some burgs” or, “you guys want to have some burgs for dinner?” - in that context it is beef hamburger patties.

[Morning Glory]

Yes, "hamburger" refers both to the sandwich and to the kind of meat used to make it. I am in northern Midwest. Grocery ads usually use the singular "hamburger" to refer to ground beef, and the plural "hamburgers" to refer to the pre-made patties. Note this only refers to beef. If the meat is anything other than beef it is the kind of meat followed by burger or burgers. e.g. "turkey burger" "veggie burgers" etc. Again singular is the ground meat and plural is the patties.

I also hear people referring to ground beef, ground turkey, etc. Only my British relatives say "mince" or "mincemeat."
I have only heard " burgs " on a TV show that was set in California.

[maizefolk]

I would use hamburger as a synonym for ground beef (and I agree with Aunt Petunia that one way to distinguish the two useages is that hamburger as ground beef is a mass noun and hamburger as a sandwich/patties is a countable noun). So at the meat counter I might ask for a pound and a half of hamburger. But when someone asks what is on the grill right now I'd say five hamburgers.

I've never heard or used "burger" as a synonym for ground beef, only as a shortening of the name of the sandwich.

[skp]

I use hamburger as synonymous with ground beef.  I use the word burger by itself (without the ham before it) as synonymous with a patty.  So in your example turning the deer into a burger would make it a deer burger.

[RetiredAt63]

To me hamburger refers to the ground beef patty (or hamburger patty, which is most likely beef but could be something else if identified) in a bun.  "Hamburger meat" = ground beef.  Any other ground meat would be identified by its type as well, i.e. ground turkey, ground pork.

[katekat]

It took me ages to clear up my confusion about the mystifying product "hamburger helper", which seemed to have nothing to do with burgers!: https://www.instacart.com/landing?product_id=2673716&retailer_id=57&region_id=770204876&mrid=71673995

So, yes, it seems to be widespread. So much so that when I originally asked my American husband about "hamburger helper" we completely talked past each other and cleared nothing up!

[dcheesi]

I would use hamburger as a synonym for ground beef (and I agree with Aunt Petunia that one way to distinguish the two useages is that hamburger as ground beef is a mass noun and hamburger as a sandwich/patties is a countable noun).

I've never heard or used "burger" as a synonym for ground beef, only as a shortening of the name of the sandwich.

This is a good point; if someone says "burger" I'm automatically thinking about the sandwich, whereas "hamburger" can be either depending on the context (though personally I'd still say "ground beef" for the ingredient).

The example of grinding deer into "burger" is an interesting one; it's not the way I would likely say it, but I can see how various usage quirks might intersect to create that usage. First you've got the use of "hamburger" to mean ground beef. Second, in the sandwich space, it's common to call traditional beef versions "hamburgers", but for all other meats it's usually just "burger", e.g., a "turkey burger", a "salmon burger" etc. Combining the two, you've got someone who's used to calling ground beef "hamburger", but who also observes the beef-only restriction for the "ham-" prefix¹, hence shortening the ground meat to just "burger" ("deer" being redundant in that particular sentence).

¹Kind of ironic that "ham" came to be specifically associated with beef --what would one call a burger patty made out of actual ham?

[Caoineag]

In the US, we mince vegetables (chop with a knife) but grind meat to produce ground meat. The machine that makes ground meat is a meat grinder. Ground beef can be referred to as hamburger but burgers are patty based sandwiches. Usually a descriptor is placed in front of anything that is not just beef, i.e. veggie burger, bison burger, etc. Though the anti "fake meat" lawsuits are trying to stop veggie burgers from being called burgers so that may change.

So my question is, do you call it mincemeat because in the UK you mince meat with blades instead of grinding it like sausage? I thought minced meat was a mixture of things chopped together...

[katekat]

In the US, we mince vegetables (chop with a knife) but grind meat to produce ground meat. The machine that makes ground meat is a meat grinder. Ground beef can be referred to as hamburger but burgers are patty based sandwiches. Usually a descriptor is placed in front of anything that is not just beef, i.e. veggie burger, bison burger, etc. Though the anti "fake meat" lawsuits are trying to stop veggie burgers from being called burgers so that may change.

So my question is, do you call it mincemeat because in the UK you mince meat with blades instead of grinding it like sausage? I thought minced meat was a mixture of things chopped together...

I have to plead ignorance as to how UK minced meat is 'produced' but I wanted to point out that British people don't call ground meat 'mincemeat', we call it 'minced meat' (or, in my experience at least we more commonly simply call it 'mince' or 'beef mince'). The two have very distinct meanings! 'Mincemeat' is a dried fruit mixture.

[OtherJen]

In the US, we mince vegetables (chop with a knife) but grind meat to produce ground meat. The machine that makes ground meat is a meat grinder. Ground beef can be referred to as hamburger but burgers are patty based sandwiches. Usually a descriptor is placed in front of anything that is not just beef, i.e. veggie burger, bison burger, etc. Though the anti "fake meat" lawsuits are trying to stop veggie burgers from being called burgers so that may change.

So my question is, do you call it mincemeat because in the UK you mince meat with blades instead of grinding it like sausage? I thought minced meat was a mixture of things chopped together...

I have to plead ignorance as to how UK minced meat is 'produced' but I wanted to point out that British people don't call ground meat 'mincemeat', we call it 'minced meat' (or, in my experience at least we more commonly simply call it 'mince' or 'beef mince'). The two have very distinct meanings! 'Mincemeat' is a dried fruit mixture.

“Mincemeat” confused me so much when I was a child.

Yeah, “hamburger” (mass noun) and “ground beef” are generally interchangeable here, but I almost never use the former term to describe bulk meat.

[Caoineag]

In the US, we mince vegetables (chop with a knife) but grind meat to produce ground meat. The machine that makes ground meat is a meat grinder. Ground beef can be referred to as hamburger but burgers are patty based sandwiches. Usually a descriptor is placed in front of anything that is not just beef, i.e. veggie burger, bison burger, etc. Though the anti "fake meat" lawsuits are trying to stop veggie burgers from being called burgers so that may change.

So my question is, do you call it mincemeat because in the UK you mince meat with blades instead of grinding it like sausage? I thought minced meat was a mixture of things chopped together...

I have to plead ignorance as to how UK minced meat is 'produced' but I wanted to point out that British people don't call ground meat 'mincemeat', we call it 'minced meat' (or, in my experience at least we more commonly simply call it 'mince' or 'beef mince'). The two have very distinct meanings! 'Mincemeat' is a dried fruit mixture.

Okay, let me put it another way. Does your minced meat look like rows of thick strings or does it just look like a fine chop? If you make a patty does it fall apart or does it sticks together? That should answer whether it's ground or minced.

[katekat]

In the US, we mince vegetables (chop with a knife) but grind meat to produce ground meat. The machine that makes ground meat is a meat grinder. Ground beef can be referred to as hamburger but burgers are patty based sandwiches. Usually a descriptor is placed in front of anything that is not just beef, i.e. veggie burger, bison burger, etc. Though the anti "fake meat" lawsuits are trying to stop veggie burgers from being called burgers so that may change.

So my question is, do you call it mincemeat because in the UK you mince meat with blades instead of grinding it like sausage? I thought minced meat was a mixture of things chopped together...

I have to plead ignorance as to how UK minced meat is 'produced' but I wanted to point out that British people don't call ground meat 'mincemeat', we call it 'minced meat' (or, in my experience at least we more commonly simply call it 'mince' or 'beef mince'). The two have very distinct meanings! 'Mincemeat' is a dried fruit mixture.

Okay, let me put it another way. Does your minced meat look like rows of thick strings or does it just look like a fine chop? If you make a patty does it fall apart or does it sticks together? That should answer whether it's ground or minced.

I don’t buy mince often, but in both countries, the majority of the mince/ground beef I’ve seen looks the same — that is, it is in “rows of string” form.

[Dogastrophe]

¹Kind of ironic that "ham" came to be specifically associated with beef --what would one call a burger patty made out of actual ham?

Likely because the name came from the place where it was thought to have been created - Hamburg, Germany.  Nothing to do with ham

[GuitarStv]

This is a good point; if someone says "burger" I'm automatically thinking about the sandwich

Unrelated side note - but a hamburger (much like a hot dog in a bun, a pita, quesadilla, or a burrito) is not a sandwich.

[Morning Glory]

¹Kind of ironic that "ham" came to be specifically associated with beef --what would one call a burger patty made out of actual ham?

Likely because the name came from the place where it was thought to have been created - Hamburg, Germany.  Nothing to do with ham

 In some parts of the US, if you grind up ham and mix it with mayonnaise it is called a salad. You can eat this on a sandwich and it's called a ham salad sandwich. No vegetables involved.

I have never tried mincemeat because I thought there was actual meat mixed in with the fruit and that didn't sound very good. I have also heard the expression "I will make mincemeat out of you".

[OtherJen]

In some parts of the US, if you grind up ham and mix it with mayonnaise it is called a salad. You can eat this on a sandwich and it's called a ham salad sandwich. No vegetables involved.

Yeah, in the Midwest, you have to carefully specify the type of salad. My SIL once asked an aunt to bring a salad to a family party. SIL envisioned some sort of raw vegetable salad with dressing on the side. The aunt brought “Jello salad” with Cool Whip, canned fruit, and mini-marshmallows.

[frugalnacho]

Michigan, USA here.

hamburger = burger = hamburger meat = burger meat = ground beef.  They could all be used in the following sentence: Did you buy any ____ when you went grocery shopping?

The countable form: hamburgers = burgers = ground beef formed into a patty.

If it's another type of meat it specified.  Ie turkey burger is ground turkey formed into a patty. 

The animal deer is referred to as deer, except when you are talking about the meat then it is referred to as venison, similar to how the animal is a cow but the meat is called beef.  You would never say ground cow, or that you ground a cow up, or that you have cow meat, you would always refer to it as beef.  It's kind of odd to hear people talking about deer but not using the word venison.

Minced = chopped up very fine, but not ground.  We tend to not have minced meat here, and the products they do sell called "mincemeat" I don't think contain any meat, just dried fruit.  They are available in a jar in the baking aisle. 

[Moonwaves]

I have never tried mincemeat because I thought there was actual meat mixed in with the fruit and that didn't sound very good.

Originally there was, as it was a way of preserving meat. Over the centuries, as other methods became available, the proportion of meat in mincemeat dropped to nothing. It does usually still contain suet so if you're vegetarian, you need to make sure to find one that uses "vegetarian suet" (that very often that ends up being palm-based fat).

[frugalnacho]

In some parts of the US, if you grind up ham and mix it with mayonnaise it is called a salad. You can eat this on a sandwich and it's called a ham salad sandwich. No vegetables involved.

Yeah, in the Midwest, you have to carefully specify the type of salad. My SIL once asked an aunt to bring a salad to a family party. SIL envisioned some sort of raw vegetable salad with dressing on the side. The aunt brought “Jello salad” with Cool Whip, canned fruit, and mini-marshmallows.

Nearly anything can be a "salad".  ground/shredded meat mixed with mayo turns it into a salad - ham salad, chicken salad, tuna salad, egg salad, etc.   You can also have almost anything else made into a "salad" - a fruit salad, a watergate salad (sounds similar to the Jello salad noted above), etc

Typically no one would confuse any of those with a regular salad (ie leaf based with a salad dressing), even though all those other forms of salad exist.  Similarly if you were told we were having "burgers" you would automatically assume it was beef unless specified otherwise.  If anyone ever used the word "burgers" or "salad" standalone without additional qualifiers such as "turkey burgers" or "fruit salad" to refer to anything other than beef burgers or lettuce salad I would say they are being disingenuous and intentionally trying to mislead you. 

[dcheesi]

¹Kind of ironic that "ham" came to be specifically associated with beef --what would one call a burger patty made out of actual ham?

Likely because the name came from the place where it was thought to have been created - Hamburg, Germany.  Nothing to do with ham

Yeah I knew the origin, I just find it mildly amusing the way language works out sometimes.

[Steeze]

Also - I lived in CO, FL, NY, MA, WY - and never heard anyone say "Mincemeat" in daily conversation. Not something I would say.

[Dogastrophe]

This is a good point; if someone says "burger" I'm automatically thinking about the sandwich

Unrelated side note - but a hamburger (much like a hot dog in a bun, a pita, quesadilla, or a burrito) is not a sandwich.

A hot dog is a taco

[Morning Glory]

This is a good point; if someone says "burger" I'm automatically thinking about the sandwich

Unrelated side note - but a hamburger (much like a hot dog in a bun, a pita, quesadilla, or a burrito) is not a sandwich.

We have a thing called a hot (kind of meat) sandwich that consists of one piece of bread with meat, mashed potatoes, and gravy on top that you eat with a knife and fork. If that is a sandwich then a hot dog or burrito is a sandwich.

Hamburgers are usually included in the sandwiches section on restaurant menus.

[Caoineag]

In the US, we mince vegetables (chop with a knife) but grind meat to produce ground meat. The machine that makes ground meat is a meat grinder. Ground beef can be referred to as hamburger but burgers are patty based sandwiches. Usually a descriptor is placed in front of anything that is not just beef, i.e. veggie burger, bison burger, etc. Though the anti "fake meat" lawsuits are trying to stop veggie burgers from being called burgers so that may change.

So my question is, do you call it mincemeat because in the UK you mince meat with blades instead of grinding it like sausage? I thought minced meat was a mixture of things chopped together...

I have to plead ignorance as to how UK minced meat is 'produced' but I wanted to point out that British people don't call ground meat 'mincemeat', we call it 'minced meat' (or, in my experience at least we more commonly simply call it 'mince' or 'beef mince'). The two have very distinct meanings! 'Mincemeat' is a dried fruit mixture.

Okay, let me put it another way. Does your minced meat look like rows of thick strings or does it just look like a fine chop? If you make a patty does it fall apart or does it sticks together? That should answer whether it's ground or minced.

I don’t buy mince often, but in both countries, the majority of the mince/ground beef I’ve seen looks the same — that is, it is in “rows of string” form.

Thank you. That was what I was trying to figure out. Here in the US, the term minced meat brings to mind steak tartare or someone hand chopping steak to fine bits so I wasn't sure if it was processed differently overseas.

[Dogastrophe]

Atlantic Canada: burger, hamburger, ground beef get used interchangeably.

A burger can be made with ground meat or veggie.  A hamburger is always beef (eg. you wouldn't say "I had a turkey hamburger", instead, "I had a turkey burger").

Mincemeat is a type of pie / tart made predominately at Christmas.

It took me a while before I figured out what ppl from the US meant by "Tuna Fish".  Here tuna is tuna, whether it is flaked/chunk from a can or a slab of solid meat. People may say "grab a can of tuna" or "check the seafood isle for tuna".  The location of it in the grocery store determines the form to pick up.  I was told several years ago that "tuna fish" = canned tuna and "tuna" = fresh solid meat (can someone confirm?)

[Wolfpack Mustachian]

I hear it and call ground beef hamburger at time but only with the addition of meat to it - i.e. I'm going to get some hamburger meat. It seems reasonable in that context since it's the meat you make hamburgers out if....to me at least :-).

[lemanfan]

Also - I lived in CO, FL, NY, MA, WY - and never heard anyone say "Mincemeat" in daily conversation. Not something I would say.

Thanks all for the replies.  Sorry for bringing the "mince" into the mix in my question, perhaps I should have used "ground".   I'm my language we use neither of the words.  :)

[Morning Glory]

"It took me a while before I figured out what ppl from the US ]meant by "Tuna Fish".  Here tuna is tuna, whether it is flaked/chunk from a can or a slab of solid meat. People may say "grab a can of tuna" or "check the seafood isle for tuna".  The location of it in the grocery store determines the form to pick up.  I was told several years ago that "tuna fish" = canned tuna and "tuna" = fresh solid meat (can someone confirm?)"

My grandma used to call it that. She came from Brooklyn. Possibly it's a regional thing? Around here people just say tuna for the canned stuff, and "tuna steak" or "tuna fillet" to specify if it's not canned.

[lemanfan]

I hear it and call ground beef hamburger at time but only with the addition of meat to it - i.e. I'm going to get some hamburger meat. It seems reasonable in that context since it's the meat you make hamburgers out if....to me at least :-).

Side note:  In Sweden we have something called "hamburgerkött", where "kött" is the literal translation of the English word "meat" - ergo "hamburger meat".  Usually sold smoked and sliced, almost like ham and used on sandwiches.  This was traditionally always horse meat but more kinds have appeared on the market these days.  So here, "hamburger meat" would not always be beef.  :)
 

[LennStar]

I think I will add to everyones confusion by saying that for Japanese a hamburger is a steak like pice of minced, ground, shredded (whatever you prefer) meat hold together by egg and pan crumbs (with additional ingredients.)

https://www.japanesecooking101.com/hamburger-steak-recipe/

In Germany we have a similar thing (we make it more like a ball, not a steak), only without the Japanese quirks (worcester souce? uh...). It has many names (and some variants), mostly "Frikadelle". At my area it is called "Gehaktesklößchen", very literally "mincedmeatsmallball" (funny one, isn't it?), for the US meatball? as big as a small fist.

And of course we have sausage salad.

[Cadman]

Do people actually refer to hamburgers as 'burgs? Perhaps it's a regional thing..in upstate New York.

[frugalnacho]

Well, Cadman, you are an odd fellow, but I must say you steam a good ham. 

[Sibley]

The way I speak (Midwest):

ground beef and hamburger are interchangable, and mean the ground up beef.

hamburger and burger are interchangable, and mean the item of food which includes a bun and hamburger patty and whatever condiments you want.

hamburger patty means either cooked or uncooked round discs of beef.

You can use similar terms for other types of meat in the same form, but I typically would add a qualifier. For example, turkey burger or veggie burger. However, if I wanted ground turkey, then I'm going to call it ground turkey. "Hamburger" or "ground beef" in that context are specific to beef.

[SunnyDays]

In my Canadian prairie province, people use "hamburger" and "ground beef" interchangeably, the latter has gained ground (no pun intended) on the former more recently.  But grocery stores call it ground beef when it's not in patty form and hamburgers when it is.  We say either hamburger or, less often, burger to refer to a patty, but never burg.  Other meat is called ground turkey, etc.

[vern]

[partgypsy]

Agree with last two statements, thought ground beef is used more commonly in the grocery store than hamburger for the bulk meat (not turned into patties).

Also hamburger is more colorful usage of something that got really messed up , so someone might say "wow that redshirt in the transporter accident got turned into hamburger" but you would not say "Wow that redshirt in the transporter accident got turned into ground beef".

[FIRE Artist]

I am from the Far East of Canada as you call it, and you are correct, we would generally call the raw bulk product you purchase to make a recipe with ground beef. 

Most recipes I think would call for ground beef, not hamburger meat.  I think no one would batt an eye if you requested hamburger meat at the meat counter though, I suspect it is a commonly enough used term that anyone would know what you were asking for.  Ground beef formed into a burger patty would be referred to as hamburger patties, not simply hamburgers.  A hamburger or hamburgers refers to a cooked, prepared patty on a bun. 

[John Galt incarnate!]

Here's a question for the Americans and Canadians from a foreigner:

Among my relatives in Alberta, Canada, i've heard the word "hamburger" being used as a synonym for minced meat.  Later I checked with both other Canadians (from the fast east of the nation) and British people I know and they would not use the word "hamburger" in that way.

Then earlier today I listened to a podcast where a hunter from northern USA (Wisconsin and Iowa, I think) said "and the rest of the deer meat was turned into burger", in a context referring to mincing the meat.

So... the question, dear North Americans, is this a common or widespread use of the word, or have I just stumbled across a few local expressions?

I have never heard "minced meat"  used as a synonym for "hamburger," "hamburger meat," or a "burger."

I have  heard each of the three called  "chopped meat" and "ground beef."

[SunnyDays]

This is a good point; if someone says "burger" I'm automatically thinking about the sandwich

Unrelated side note - but a hamburger (much like a hot dog in a bun, a pita, quesadilla, or a burrito) is not a sandwich.

It could be if it’s a patty melt.

[John Galt incarnate!]

In the US, we mince vegetables (chop with a knife) but grind meat to produce ground meat. The machine that makes ground meat is a meat grinder. Ground beef can be referred to as hamburger but burgers are patty based sandwiches. Usually a descriptor is placed in front of anything that is not just beef, i.e. veggie burger, bison burger, etc. Though the anti "fake meat" lawsuits are trying to stop veggie burgers from being called burgers so that may change.

So my question is, do you call it mincemeat because in the UK you mince meat with blades instead of grinding it like sausage? I thought minced meat was a mixture of things chopped together...

I have to plead ignorance as to how UK minced meat is 'produced' but I wanted to point out that British people don't call ground meat 'mincemeat', we call it 'minced meat' (or, in my experience at least we more commonly simply call it 'mince' or 'beef mince'). The two have very distinct meanings! 'Mincemeat' is a dried fruit mixture.

“Mincemeat” confused me so much when I was a child.

If someone were faced with a threatening situation  my grandmother  said "It'll make mincemeat out of them."

[John Galt incarnate!]

Do people actually refer to hamburgers as 'burgs? Perhaps it's a regional thing..in upstate New York.

I've never heard or read of it.

[Dogastrophe]

Do people actually refer to hamburgers as 'burgs? Perhaps it's a regional thing..in upstate New York.

Never heard of it in Utica ...

[frugalnacho]

Oh, not in Utica. No. It's an Albany expression.

[GuitarStv]

This is a good point; if someone says "burger" I'm automatically thinking about the sandwich

Unrelated side note - but a hamburger (much like a hot dog in a bun, a pita, quesadilla, or a burrito) is not a sandwich.

A hot dog is a taco

Holy fuck, I think you're right!

[AccidentialMustache]

I'm pretty sure a hamburger is also a sandwich. Both wrap a meat substance in a bread substance, which usually has condiment applied, often crunchy greenery (iceburg), and almost always cheese.

If it walks like an duck and talks like a duck... (I am a python programmer, so I'm comfortable with duck typing.)

If a hot dog is a leavened taco, then clearly a cheese quesadilla is an unleavened grilled cheese sandwich. This might be more obvious if you make lazy quesadillas though -- two tortillas with cheese between gives you only one object to flip.

[deborah]

We don’t have grinders. They are called mincers in Australia. So minced meat is what the Americans are calling ground meat. Cutting food into small pieces might be dicing or finely chopping. I’ve often wondered why American recipes call for minced garlic - I’ve usually cut it finely instead. Now I know they’re expecting me to do that!

Minced meat comes in various sorts - most places sell normal mince (less than 10% fat) and lean mince (less than 5% fat) and if the animal isn’t specified, it’s beef. Sausage meat, hamburger meat and various others (like kofte which usually is half lamb) are easily available, and these usually have some additives (mainly flavourings, although sausage meat has breadcrumbs added) to make it more suitable for the purpose. Lamb, chicken and pork mince are readily available.

[dcheesi]

This is a good point; if someone says "burger" I'm automatically thinking about the sandwich

Unrelated side note - but a hamburger (much like a hot dog in a bun, a pita, quesadilla, or a burrito) is not a sandwich.

A hot dog is a taco

Holy fuck, I think you're right!

https://cuberule.com/

[Dogastrophe]

This is a good point; if someone says "burger" I'm automatically thinking about the sandwich

Unrelated side note - but a hamburger (much like a hot dog in a bun, a pita, quesadilla, or a burrito) is not a sandwich.

A hot dog is a taco

Holy fuck, I think you're right!

https://cuberule.com/

This is brilliant.