Author Topic: Alternative to Counter-protesting  (Read 7155 times)

Milkshake

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Alternative to Counter-protesting
« on: August 16, 2017, 02:32:57 PM »
Wish I had thought of this, but I saw on Facebook someone who recommended that instead of counter-protesting things we don't agree with, we should turn it into a charity event, like an AIDS walk.

Every racist that turns up, someone donates $5 to an anti-racist organization. Every quarter-mile they march, people donate $100. Cheer 'em on! Announce how much they've raised as they go during the day!

I can't think of anything more infuriating than marching for a cause that ends up donating money to the opposite cause..

Miss Piggy

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2017, 02:52:08 PM »
That's kind of a cool idea.

rocketpj

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2017, 07:21:02 PM »
I was thinking about something like this when considering Trump's tweeting and attacks etc.

Set up a PAC to support opponents to Trump and his enablers, particularly in swing ridings.  Then sign up pledges to donate every time Trump says or does a variety of things.  Write up a fairly clear list of definitions (so it doesn't just turn into a money hose that people don't trust).

-Every time he mentions the electoral college, $1 donation to the PAC. 
- Every time he attacks Hillary Clinton (10 months after the election) - $1
- Every time he tweets about something he just watched on Fox - $.50
- Every time he says, tweets or blames 'Fake News'  - $.50
- Every time he says or tweets an attack on the judiciary - $2

Potential donors could choose from a list of options, and set a maximum donation as well (in case Trump goes on a random tweetstorm on a particular topic).

It would be great fun to follow each of his crazy ass tweets with a summary of the total donations to his political opponents that he has triggered with his idiocy.  A reasonably simple twitter bot could reply to each of his posts within seconds.

Heck, if it was carefully set up the PAC could directly target Republicans who are in vulnerable ridings that have not yet turned against Trump.  Send them a tweet or email every time Trump does something offensive listing how much more money is being raised for their opponents.  That could happen several times a day.  They are clearly not going to grow spines and oppose him, might as well get them worried about their jobs.

In the best case it would cause him to think twice before fundraising for his opponents with every utterance.  But let's be serious here...
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 07:23:04 PM by rocketpj »

Milkshake

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2017, 07:30:33 PM »
That's not a bad idea either. Like you said, the hardest part would be getting people to trust the whole thing. Whatever the money went to, it would have to be extremely open and clear where it went. But if executed correctly, and if it were to go viral, you could have an "ice bucket challenge" type of cash flow and potentially raise millions for a cause that is the antithesis of what the people who actually raised the money believe in.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2017, 07:17:16 AM »
We have a local women's clinic that does "pledge a protestor".  They count the number of picketers they get all month and then send you a bill based on their pledge.  They keep a sign on the side of the building to let the protestors know how much money they are earning them each day.  I think this month it is close to $800 a protestor per day.

I give $1 per protestor per day.  But the number of people who show up has drastically decreased since they started doing this.

Capt j-rod

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2017, 07:38:49 AM »
I have a better idea yet. Turn off the tv/internet. Go for a bike ride, take your kids to the fair, build something cool, go camping, paddle a canoe, remember the old saying if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there does it make a sound? Everything mentioned above is out of our control. I have decided to fix me and make myself more resilient to the system. Fear is one of the most powerful emotions we experience. Hate is another.
Just like debt, and bad employers we have found away to rise above this. Do the same. The election is over, assholes are everywhere, media only covers what they want.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2017, 08:22:28 AM »
Everything mentioned above is out of our control. I have decided to fix me and make myself more resilient to the system.

Ignoring racism doesn't make it go away and certainly doesn't make it better for those being oppressed.

Are we not better, stronger together?

What if we had ignored Hitler because his oppression was "out of our control?"

We must think of others in our country, in our communities.  Only thinking about yourself and ignoring the outright racism we are witnessing in our country in 2017 is just selfish.  Many of us care about others, so we will do what we can to rid our nation of bigotry.  That will look different for many people, but remember, "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

Davnasty

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2017, 09:17:22 AM »
Everything mentioned above is out of our control. I have decided to fix me and make myself more resilient to the system.

Ignoring racism doesn't make it go away and certainly doesn't make it better for those being oppressed.

Are we not better, stronger together?

What if we had ignored Hitler because his oppression was "out of our control?"

We must think of others in our country, in our communities.  Only thinking about yourself and ignoring the outright racism we are witnessing in our country in 2017 is just selfish.  Many of us care about others, so we will do what we can to rid our nation of bigotry.  That will look different for many people, but remember, "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
You can certainly argue that ignoring protestors would make their efforts meaningless, but it would only work if you had everyone on board. Most problems in this world would have a very simple solution IF you could get everyone to be on the same page but that isn't going to happen.

Kind of like if we could get everyone to agree we really only need to work 10-15 hours a week to meet our real needs/wants then everyone would live happier, simpler lives. But that isn't happening so in the mean time we work with the system we've got by working a few years, investing and then being done so we can work at whatever pace we see fit.

There's the ideological solution and then there's the real world. I think we should keep both in mind but in this case I agree that action is necessary.

Capt j-rod

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2017, 09:36:35 AM »
I'm Switzerland. I won't be building any tanks or taking up arms. You guys go have fun.

rocketpj

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2017, 09:50:01 AM »
We have a local women's clinic that does "pledge a protestor".  They count the number of picketers they get all month and then send you a bill based on their pledge.  They keep a sign on the side of the building to let the protestors know how much money they are earning them each day.  I think this month it is close to $800 a protestor per day.

I give $1 per protestor per day.  But the number of people who show up has drastically decreased since they started doing this.

Sounds like a win then. Imagine if every time the neo-nazis held a rally it led to a million dollar donation to the ACLU or Southern Poverty Law Center or something. 

I'm an outsider looking in, but I am considering setting up something similar for us here in Canada. 

Davnasty

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2017, 09:56:47 AM »
I'm Switzerland. I won't be building any tanks or taking up arms. You guys go have fun.
Speaking up isn't the same as resorting to violence. In fact I think avoiding violence should be a priority.

On Switzerland and neutrality, what if every other nation remained neutral? How many more would have died? Would the axis powers have grown until they couldn't be stopped?

Also, they weren't entirely neutral. They took in refugees and gave them asylum and built up their border defenses. I would speculate they remained neutral by declaration due to their geographic location and the increased chance of being invaded if they went to war with their neighbors.

Capt j-rod

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2017, 09:59:08 AM »
Last Post before LockDown?

rocketpj

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2017, 10:08:31 AM »
I'm Switzerland. I won't be building any tanks or taking up arms. You guys go have fun.
Speaking up isn't the same as resorting to violence. In fact I think avoiding violence should be a priority.

On Switzerland and neutrality, what if every other nation remained neutral? How many more would have died? Would the axis powers have grown until they couldn't be stopped?

Also, they weren't entirely neutral. They took in refugees and gave them asylum and built up their border defenses. I would speculate they remained neutral by declaration due to their geographic location and the increased chance of being invaded if they went to war with their neighbors.

Switzerland also has a long standing policy of being 'unattackable'.  Anyone who wants to invade them will face a very costly and bloody endeavour because they have focused all their attention of making it difficult and unappealing.  The rest of us spend at least some time trying to be able to project power abroad, but not Switzerland.

GenXbiker

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2017, 11:36:53 AM »
I have a better idea yet. Turn off the tv/internet. Go for a bike ride, take your kids to the fair, build something cool, go camping, paddle a canoe, remember the old saying if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there does it make a sound? Everything mentioned above is out of our control. I have decided to fix me and make myself more resilient to the system. Fear is one of the most powerful emotions we experience. Hate is another.
Just like debt, and bad employers we have found away to rise above this. Do the same. The election is over, assholes are everywhere, media only covers what they want.

Yes, just get out and live life.  I'm going for a bike ride later.  Thanks for the suggestion.

In fact I think avoiding violence should be a priority.

Absolutely.

dividendman

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2017, 01:01:35 PM »

In fact I think avoiding violence should be a priority.

Absolutely.

Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and fascism?

dycker1978

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2017, 01:08:39 PM »
Everything mentioned above is out of our control. I have decided to fix me and make myself more resilient to the system.

Ignoring racism doesn't make it go away and certainly doesn't make it better for those being oppressed.

Are we not better, stronger together?

What if we had ignored Hitler because his oppression was "out of our control?"

We must think of others in our country, in our communities.  Only thinking about yourself and ignoring the outright racism we are witnessing in our country in 2017 is just selfish.  Many of us care about others, so we will do what we can to rid our nation of bigotry.  That will look different for many people, but remember, "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

I think this can be taken one step further.  IMO ignoring racism is akin to agreeing with those at fault.  Someone once said making a choice is still a choice.  Not standing up to racism is allowing it to continue, and thus making a choice. 

All people are not truly free unless we all are.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2017, 02:11:31 PM »
Everything mentioned above is out of our control. I have decided to fix me and make myself more resilient to the system.

Ignoring racism doesn't make it go away and certainly doesn't make it better for those being oppressed.

Are we not better, stronger together?

What if we had ignored Hitler because his oppression was "out of our control?"

We must think of others in our country, in our communities.  Only thinking about yourself and ignoring the outright racism we are witnessing in our country in 2017 is just selfish.  Many of us care about others, so we will do what we can to rid our nation of bigotry.  That will look different for many people, but remember, "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

I think this can be taken one step further.  IMO ignoring racism is akin to agreeing with those at fault.  Someone once said making a choice is still a choice.  Not standing up to racism is allowing it to continue, and thus making a choice. 

All people are not truly free unless we all are.

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

I agree.  This "plug our heads in the sand" decision is extremely selfish and will not solve anything.  Does that mean everyone should attend marches, protests, etc.?  No, there are otherwise to try to ensure equality for all people.  Racism and bigotry has reared its ugly head here in 2017.  If you aren't against that then wtf is wrong with you?

We've got to watch out for each other.  It takes a village to raise a child.  Just because you might have good doesn't mean everyone else does.

Johnez

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2017, 03:30:02 PM »
Brilliant idea. It is depressing as heck to see what is going on in the news, time to take back the narrative.

Someone please take this idea to the next rally.

rosaz

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2017, 09:27:34 PM »
Brilliant idea. It is depressing as heck to see what is going on in the news, time to take back the narrative.

Someone please take this idea to the next rally.

Done.

https://go.rallyup.com/not-on-my-common

Milkshake

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2017, 08:06:28 AM »
Brilliant idea. It is depressing as heck to see what is going on in the news, time to take back the narrative.

Someone please take this idea to the next rally.

Done.

https://go.rallyup.com/not-on-my-common

Wow, sure enough there it is. That's pretty cool.

GenXbiker

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2017, 10:11:16 AM »
I agree with Tina Fey on this:

From  http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/18/media/tina-fey-trump-weekend-update

Fey's final piece of advice?

"Treat these rallies like the opening of a thoughtful movie with two female leads -- don't show up," Fey said. "Let these morons scream into the empty air. "

Proud Foot

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2017, 11:03:44 AM »
Love the idea.  Looks like this was successful at an event in Germany a couple years ago.

acroy

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2017, 11:14:49 AM »
It is depressing as heck to see what is going on in the news,

Read other news.

Or don't read news, it's not mandatory. It's mostly bad because fear/anger/angst sells. Media is a clickbait industry. Never will you have a smiling reporter standing on the corner of Center & Main, saying into the camera: "All is well here!"

If you must read/watch the news, turn it into a drinking game. Anything can be turned into a drinking game. LOTR series is great. "Frodo" ...... Drink!! :)

Leisured

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2017, 06:02:11 AM »
Excellent idea, OP. It sounds like the equivalent of slow clapping at a meeting, if people do not like the speaker.

iris lily

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2017, 08:31:44 AM »
We have a local women's clinic that does "pledge a protestor".  They count the number of picketers they get all month and then send you a bill based on their pledge.  They keep a sign on the side of the building to let the protestors know how much money they are earning them each day.  I think this month it is close to $800 a protestor per day.

I give $1 per protestor per day.  But the number of people who show up has drastically decreased since they started doing this.
that is an amazingly interesting idea!!

iris lily

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2017, 12:25:06 PM »
I like imaginative ways to turn protestors on their ear.

There is the group who bought a property across the street from the Westboro Baptist
Church hdqrts to fly rainbow flags. Funny!

I think those who love Robert E. Lee statues could install them on private property, in the yard of an agreeing homeowner who lives right across the street from the public place where it once stood.

In my city which just lost its monument to Veterans of the confederacy, I though that someone could commission a smaller version commissioned of that monster stone scupture and place it in their yard. I would give money for that.

It is boring to get all heated up at the heated up rhetoric on the street. Cleverness wins me  every time.

GenXbiker

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2017, 12:48:42 PM »
This just in - more violent protests.  Don't be like the guy in this video dragging an older woman with an American flag!

https://youtu.be/KA4I2_1jm0A

iris lily

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2017, 06:45:37 AM »
It is depressing as heck to see what is going on in the news,

Read other news.

Or don't read news, it's not mandatory. It's mostly bad because fear/anger/angst sells. Media is a clickbait industry. Never will you have a smiling reporter standing on the corner of Center & Main, saying into the camera: "All is well here!"

If you must read/watch the news, turn it into a drinking game. Anything can be turned into a drinking game. LOTR series is great. "Frodo" ...... Drink!! :)

Yes, read other news, live your life.

Some people love being angry, that's part of what drives the media to hype this Hate stuff and "both sides" fall for it.  Social Justice Warriors seem always unhappy as they fiercly admonish those who are not unhappy enough with the situation of the day. I guess a few here will be happy only when everyone is unhappy.

It is important to generally be aware of what is taking place in the world. It is important to maintain one's equilibrium in order to be a responsible and concerned citizen as well as an effective member of community and family, and I am not sure that 24/7 mainstream media consumption whips up useful emotions and action.

I think it is great when people get involved in their community, its politics, its issues. I think it is short sighted to focus exclusively on the One Story of the Day that national mainstream media puts in front of our faces. Sometimes, everything is not about race, even in my town, where everything is about race (even when it's not.)


DarkandStormy

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2017, 07:07:25 AM »
This just in - more violent protests.  Don't be like the guy in this video dragging an older woman with an American flag!

https://youtu.be/KA4I2_1jm0A

33 idiots out of an estimated 40k were arrested. Was the overall tone violent? No, of course not. It was about love and equality. A few idiots were arrested, properly.

Cranberries

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2017, 10:01:13 AM »
I agree with Tina Fey on this:

From  http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/18/media/tina-fey-trump-weekend-update

Fey's final piece of advice?

"Treat these rallies like the opening of a thoughtful movie with two female leads -- don't show up," Fey said. "Let these morons scream into the empty air. "

Um. That was satire... 

GenXbiker

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2017, 10:47:12 AM »
I agree with Tina Fey on this:

From  http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/18/media/tina-fey-trump-weekend-update

Fey's final piece of advice?

"Treat these rallies like the opening of a thoughtful movie with two female leads -- don't show up," Fey said. "Let these morons scream into the empty air. "

Um. That was satire...

Yet, consistent.  It seems clear how she really feels.  She's taken some flack for it:

https://www.bustle.com/p/heres-why-people-are-angry-about-tina-feys-return-to-weekend-update-77454

http://www.thedailybeast.com/tina-feys-eat-cake-strategy-after-charlottesville-is-bad-advice
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 10:49:28 AM by GenXbiker »

GenXbiker

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2017, 12:01:48 PM »
33 idiots out of an estimated 40k were arrested.

Yeah, I heard the same numbers.  Not too bad.

jrhampt

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2017, 03:27:44 PM »
I was part of the counter protest in Boston this weekend because I was disgusted and angered that an armed mob was allowed to threaten the citizens of Charlottesville and to parade around in front of a synagogue (left defenseless by police) with their weapons chanting Nazi slogans during a worship service.  This is unacceptable and I don't want them anywhere near my town or my neighbors.  So I showed up with 40k other people, including clergy, black lives matter, Jews, gay people, hispanics, and other white people who feel it is our civic responsibility to do what we can to help stop these people and drive them out of our cities before they can get more of a foothold than they already have.  By the time my group got to the commons (we were in the middle somewhere and couldn't see the beginning or the end of the crowd), the original "free speech" rally had already dispersed.  I saw no violence, heard plenty of people singing hymns around me, and there was a great brass band, too.  I marched for my Jewish friends, my gay friends, my immigrant friends, my black and Hispanic and Indian friends.

Whatever altercations there were with the police I was not part of and would have had no part of, and I think that goes for the overwhelming majority of those in the crowd.

SoundFuture

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2017, 02:51:00 PM »
Wish I had thought of this, but I saw on Facebook someone who recommended that instead of counter-protesting things we don't agree with, we should turn it into a charity event, like an AIDS walk.

Every racist that turns up, someone donates $5 to an anti-racist organization. Every quarter-mile they march, people donate $100. Cheer 'em on! Announce how much they've raised as they go during the day!

I can't think of anything more infuriating than marching for a cause that ends up donating money to the opposite cause..

Example from the EU:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/18/neo-nazis-tricked-into-raising-10000-for-charity

The same idea in the US could be used with the Life After Hate organization.

Davids

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Re: Alternative to Counter-protesting
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2017, 06:46:31 PM »
Would also work as a drinking game...