Author Topic: A last goodbye to the forum  (Read 10773 times)

goodbye to the forum

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A last goodbye to the forum
« on: April 01, 2019, 02:58:51 PM »
Mustachians,
I (EnjoyIt) came back (with a fake account (i'm sorry) to send out my last goodbye.  As of a few days ago I was banned from the forum (more about that below if interested.)  But before I leave I wanted to send heartfelt thoughts.

Thank you MMM for the revelations he instilled in me and my family.  Our lives are so much better because he helped us realize the value of our labor and our money.  It has allowed us to reach financial success we would never dream of while improving our day to day lives.  I hope to in the next several months to start a movement in healthcare that will one day actually get Americans affordable healthcare.  I hope I don't get lazy and I hope I succeed.  Actually banning me from these forums will give me more of my free time back which is a very good thing in the long run. I have spent a little too much of my life on this forum and Bogleheads.

I also want to thank all the kind members of this forum that were willing to have political discussions with me.  I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal and when I started commenting on these forums I would say that I was very blind to everyone's views and needs in the US. Anyone who is willing to check will see how my views began to lean more and more left to where I stand today.  I believe it is a good thing.  All those disagreements and discussions allowed me to understand from so many different angles I never had the chance to see in my closed off world.  So again, thank you so much for that.  I hope all those talks will not go to waste as I try and pursue to help change how medicine is delivered in the US.

Another thanks goes out to those who have helped answer my questions over the years regarding general life and lifestyle.  You all make this community great so keep it up.

I will miss you all, even the mods who felt I don't belong here anymore.

You can stop reading now if you don't care about my banning:
I was banned a few days ago with no warning, no restrictions, just a ban the next time I logged in.  It was a surprise to me as my only transgression has been to not be a far left leaning liberal who felt free to discuss my views and perceptions of society. I openly discussed how some views divide the country as opposed to bringing the country closer together.  By being more moderate compared to the liberal left I have had many insults directed at me and I can honestly say I have never insulted a single person directly.  I did at many times question ideas which is how I believe we learn from each other.  We talk to people we disagree with so that our own views can improve.  I realize this site is a private and can keep or ban anyone they see fit.  Despite that realization I feel like my freedom of speech was cut by those who run the forum and lean to the very left of our political spectrum.  I think it is a little sad how this played out.  But again, private forum, private decisions, private results.

Since I was officially banned, creating a new fake account is pretty damn crummy and for that I am sorry.  I wanted to get my thank you in to those who deserve it and leave with my thoughts behind regarding the ban.  I do not expect this account to last any longer than leaving this message and I am not asking to be unbanned..  I suspect there is a good chance this message may be deleted but I hope not.

Again, thank you all, and goodbye.  I hope everyone here can achieve their goals and then some.
-EnjoyIt

bacchi

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2019, 03:21:43 PM »
I'm not sure what happened re:the ban but that's a nice goodbye. Good luck to yourself.

Cheers.

G-dog

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2019, 03:26:38 PM »
Are you sure you are banned? There is some funny business with IP addresses and the like that will kick people off in an apparent ban.  I would think that if you were banned you would get a warning, etc.

@FrugalToque - if this person was not banned, perhaps you have time to contact them and explain this better than I.

BicycleB

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2019, 03:52:53 PM »
Hi, EnjoyIt @goodbye to the forum . I was curious what happened, so went to the Member List to read posts under your old name...can't find EnjoyIt at all. So, maybe banned for real? (Or, maybe I'm missing something. That could happen too.)

I never noticed someone's entire post history disappearing when they were banned. I had assumed banning meant preventing future posts. I would have assumed posts previously allowed to exist would be allowed to continue existing. Maybe they get deleted to increase efficiency of the forum software?

Re setting up a new forum name...well, so far I've considered the ability to make a new profile a feature rather than a bug, as long as it's used judiciously. Abuse would damage the forum, judicious use probably adds value. We're probably in the ok middle so far as a group. I've created a new forum name just because I couldn't figure out my old password, hence I have two spellings/profiles. Understandable for your message, I think.

It's hard to imagine how much work the mods do, but I think it's a lot. I suspect that at some point troll blocking has huge value in building a positive community. But just as obviously incorrect blocking of a non-troll is unjust even if well intended. I'd really like to review some of those posts...

Anyway, nice goodbye post if that's how it works out. At minimum, best of luck in your life; take care!

PS. If you get your movement started, I'd love to see a mention or link, even if it means a third profile is created in in a few months. I'll click on it if ever see a post from EnjoyOurNewHealthCareMovement, for example.  :)

« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 04:15:37 PM by BicycleB »

OutFab

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2019, 04:14:58 PM »
Just read through the Off Topic.  It's obvious who this person is.  Every single person who doesn't lean left has been banned.  I am much more left than this poster and I appreciated their comments, while not agreeing with hardly any of them.  For what it's worth, I'm guessing this is "Versatile"?  If I'm wrong, then sorry, wrong poster.  UPDATE:  Just realized you wrote "EnjoyIt" and I don't remember reading your comments.

I've been a lurker for at least 6 months now, just created my account finally.  I live in Australia and find American politics fascinating.  Reading some of the off topic political threads, it's been disheartening that the topics almost seem to be a setup to expose anyone who leans right so they can be promptly banned.  The double standard sucks.  Any dissenting or differing opinions just seem to stop all of a sudden, and lots of bans.  Posters make fake accounts like this, too.  It's a mess.

My suggestion would be to remove the entire Off Topic section, or at least anything political. Maybe we should just focus on finances here?  I won't waste my time reading the political threads anymore in light of the behavior from the mods, what's the point?  The discussions end prematurely as right leaning users are banned without cause.  It just shows how awful politics can be, especially when moderators are biased and weaponize their authority.

I would appeal to the users here, and the mods, to just delete the political threads.  It's not the place for it.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 04:17:05 PM by OutFab »

BicycleB

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2019, 04:32:06 PM »

I've been a lurker for at least 6 months now, just created my account finally. 

Welcome to the discussion zone!

I live in Australia and find American politics fascinating. 

Fascinating indeed, my friend.


 Reading some of the off topic political threads, it's been disheartening that the topics almost seem to be a setup to expose anyone who leans right so they can be promptly banned.  The double standard sucks.  Any dissenting or differing opinions just seem to stop all of a sudden, and lots of bans.  Posters make fake accounts like this, too.  It's a mess.

My suggestion would be to remove the entire Off Topic section, or at least anything political. Maybe we should just focus on finances here?  I won't waste my time reading the political threads anymore in light of the behavior from the mods, what's the point?  The discussions end prematurely as right leaning users are banned without cause.  It just shows how awful politics can be, especially when moderators are biased and weaponize their authority.

I would appeal to the users here, and the mods, to just delete the political threads.  It's not the place for it.

Personally I think the politics threads serve some valuable functions. I think Bogleheads bans politics, but I like that MMM allows it, at least to the extent that it does.

I think the key value right now is that if people want to engage, they have at least a chance to do so. In a society that has a lot of fragmentation going on, any viable public space is a good thing. My hope is that at some point, such public spaces might lead to some sort of civic reconciliation or improvement. In some threads (more journals that Off Topic discussions, alas) really civil and thoughtful discussions of deep issues sometimes occur.

I haven't seen enough bans on pure viewpoint grounds to recognize that as a pattern. I will pay more attention...in the increasingly rare event that read much of the politics threads.  :)    Which is becoming more rare because, while some of them begin as really legitimate explorations of issues, others begin or shift toward a provocative/confrontational mode and become dominated by people who just expound their views while no one seems to learn anything.

The bans I've seen in the past came from violations of the rule against ad hominem attacks. That's not partisan, but in the cases I saw, the attacks were by someone expressing a right wing view via a personal attack on someone. This would be easy to confuse with censoring a right wing view, but it's not the same.

Peace to all reasoned and thoughtful discussers...


G-dog

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2019, 04:36:55 PM »
There is a recent separate thread where banning politics was discussed.  It's a pretty overwhelming "no".

There is a light hand on moderation. If you can manage to not be a jerk to others, especially during heated discussions, you won't get banned - regardless of your political leanings.

I don't enjoy the nasty turn some heated threads take, so I just avoid them.  Problem solved (but not the problem that "someone on the internet is wrong")

use2betrix

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2019, 04:39:33 PM »
The key is avoiding the political posts altogether, especially if you don’t lean super hard left here.

The few times I have scrolled those sections I just see a lot of people being stressed, upset, and angry, over something a stranger on the internet believes. Also over a topic they generally have no control over in their “real” life.

People are quick to stand behind MMM financial posts, if only more people would read his “low information diet” article about 50 more times.

bacchi

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2019, 05:21:37 PM »
I never noticed someone's entire post history disappearing when they were banned. I had assumed banning meant preventing future posts. I would have assumed posts previously allowed to exist would be allowed to continue existing. Maybe they get deleted to increase efficiency of the forum software?

I still see EnjoyIt's posts.


I'm skeptical that anyone to the right of Karl Marx is getting banned simply because they're to the right of Karl Marx. Is there any proof of that? (Not to BicycleB, necessarily, but to others who have claimed that.)

Bloop Bloop

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2019, 05:44:27 PM »
I enjoyed EnjoyIt's posts and I'm sad to see him go.

I am socially extremely left, but economically very libertarian, and I've had no moderation of my posts here. However, I think when people say that "non-left learning posts get moderated", they are referring to socially non-left views. All I would say to that is that I think people should be able to express politely whatever views they like.

I have been banned from other forums for politely expressing my economic views (which are not particularly nasty - simply that I like the status quo and I prefer to focus on my wealth and early retirement than the redistribution of my assets to others). I am grateful to this forum for providing a safe space for people like me, and I would hope that all political views (expressed politely) can be similarly encompassed.

BicycleB

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2019, 09:50:27 PM »
I never noticed someone's entire post history disappearing when they were banned. I had assumed banning meant preventing future posts. I would have assumed posts previously allowed to exist would be allowed to continue existing. Maybe they get deleted to increase efficiency of the forum software?

I still see EnjoyIt's posts.


Good! At least someone does.

When I look at the member list around Enj, the names I see in order are enigmawrap, EnjoyTheJourney, and enki. Shouldn't EnjoyIt be between enigmawrap and EnjoyTheJourney?

Where should I look to see EnjoyIt's post history?

Herbert Derp

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2019, 10:11:17 PM »
I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal and when I started commenting on these forums I would say that I was very blind to everyone's views and needs in the US. Anyone who is willing to check will see how my views began to lean more and more left to where I stand today.

It was a surprise to me as my only transgression has been to not be a far left leaning liberal who felt free to discuss my views and perceptions of society. I openly discussed how some views divide the country as opposed to bringing the country closer together.  By being more moderate compared to the liberal left I have had many insults directed at me and I can honestly say I have never insulted a single person directly.

Just read through the Off Topic.  It's obvious who this person is.  Every single person who doesn't lean left has been banned.  I am much more left than this poster and I appreciated their comments, while not agreeing with hardly any of them.

The key is avoiding the political posts altogether, especially if you don’t lean super hard left here.

Really? I don't lean super hard left. I have expressed libertarian views many times on this forum and never felt that I was unwelcome here.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 10:19:10 PM by Herbert Derp »

Bloop Bloop

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2019, 10:16:49 PM »
Just read through the Off Topic.  It's obvious who this person is.  Every single person who doesn't lean left has been banned.  I am much more left than this poster and I appreciated their comments, while not agreeing with hardly any of them.

The key is avoiding the political posts altogether, especially if you don’t lean super hard left here.

Really? I don't lean super hard left. I have expressed libertarian views many times on this forum and never felt that I was unwelcome here.

I have been pretty harshly criticised for my libertarian views. But overall this forum is one of the friendlier ones. On reddit I regularly get -100 downvotes just for stating that I prefer my own money in my own pocket than distributed to others. Still, for a forum like this which is dedicated to being financially savvy, there's a lot of unease about those of us who are simply libertarian and more inclined to want to fix up our own finances than save others who are incapable of doing so for themselves.

aspiringnomad

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2019, 10:22:05 PM »
That was a nice farewell. I recognize your old handle as a frequent poster here, but never associated it with an overly political bent. Yes, some of the mods likely lean to the left. But from what I've seen, you'd typically have to be a troll, hopelessly obsessed with a topic no one wants to discuss, or quick with the ad hominems to get banned around here. If you were truly banned for calmly expressing your political views, that's a real shame. All the best in your health care endeavor - hope you spend your newfound time on that.

maizeman

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2019, 10:23:28 PM »
Where should I look to see EnjoyIt's post history?

This link works for me anyway:

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/profile/?u=25363

It's not immediately obvious what recent posts would have prompted banning, but perhaps they were deleted? (Edit: Oh, looks like a discussion on one of the off topic threads that escalated into personal insults back on March 25th could have been the culprit).

Probably also worth investigating G-Dog's point about false banning messages showing up. I've seen multiple people post with that issue.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 10:26:01 PM by maizeman »

Herbert Derp

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2019, 10:27:22 PM »
I can attest to the false banning thing. There was a period of time where I couldn't visit the site from work and got the "you're banned" message. Apparently, part of their IP range had been banned for some random reason, unrelated to my actions.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 10:29:49 PM by Herbert Derp »

aspiringnomad

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2019, 10:59:54 PM »
Where should I look to see EnjoyIt's post history?

This link works for me anyway:

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/profile/?u=25363

It's not immediately obvious what recent posts would have prompted banning, but perhaps they were deleted? (Edit: Oh, looks like a discussion on one of the off topic threads that escalated into personal insults back on March 25th could have been the culprit).

Probably also worth investigating G-Dog's point about false banning messages showing up. I've seen multiple people post with that issue.

Yeah, never mind. Repeatedly calling people “retarded” is incompatible with civilized discussion in 2019. As the OP acknowledges, private forum, private rules. That’s a good one in my opinion.

sol

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2019, 11:07:51 PM »
I have been banned from the forum, both intentionally and accidentally, on multiple occasions.

Intentional bans are usually temporary for a first offense, unless it's obvious to everyone ahead of time what's about to happen.

FiveSigmas

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2019, 11:36:07 PM »
Here’s hoping the ban is only temporary (and that you choose to come back). I don’t always agree with you, but you’ve always struck me as a thoughtful and knowledgeable person, and I’ve enjoyed reading your point of view.

That said, I totally understand taking more time to “enjoy it” (life outside MMM and bogleheads).

Bateaux

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2019, 11:53:28 PM »
I'd be a liar if I said I shared his views on anything.  At one time, I was convinced he was just a troll.  Later on, I began to believe that MMM is an outlet for stress for him.  I'd rather not see EnjoyIt banned permanently.   I do come here for political viewpoints as well as financial.   My vote if one were taken would be to restore his account as long as there are no personal attacks.  Good luck to you EnjoyIt.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 11:55:33 PM by Bateaux »

kei te pai

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2019, 02:43:55 AM »
Whether some one expresses "super left wing views" seems to me largely a matter of perspective. By US /Aus standards NZ runs pretty left wing even when we have a right wing government !
I like reading different view points as long as they are expressed thoughtfully and respectfully. I appreciate the general tone of the forum and the work that goes on behind the scenes to keep it a civil place.
Thanks to the moderators and regular contributors for this.
And good luck with the Healthcare project Enjoyit.

Bloop Bloop

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2019, 03:41:20 AM »
I think what makes this forum civil is that there isn't a lot of emotionality involved.

When I post on some place like Reddit about how I'm annoyed at how high my tax burden is, people reply with the usual bullshit - "you could be starving on the streets - why don't you work a min wage job and then come back" etc etc

On here we are all intelligent, financially savvy and most of us are financially comfortable so it takes away the knee jerk emotional component of discussing finances/politics.

I admit to being a little bemused at the racial discussion but I think that is an American political thing.

goatmom

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2019, 04:27:56 AM »
As a fellow physician, I will miss EnjoyIt.   He added insight to many of the discussions on healthcare and his point of view will be missed.  Best of luck!

davisgang90

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2019, 04:28:42 AM »
I don't know or follow the OP, but agree in principle with the idea that conservative views are completely unwelcome on the forum.

This is the main reason I don't bother posting in political threads.

Malkynn

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2019, 06:21:18 AM »
Pfft, my account gets "banned" like every second day.

If there was no warning, then it's more likely a glitch than a left-wing conspiracy. There are many of us who get "banned" out of nowhere.

Try deleting your browsing history a few times and see if you you get un-banned. I literally have to do this 2 or 3 times a week.

rantk81

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2019, 06:27:10 AM »
Oh gosh, I really hope this is a mistake or glitch.  I really appreciate what EnjoyIt contributes to this forum.  Yes, I often disagree with some of the things he posts, as I fall on the other end of the political-spectrum.  However, I do really value the perspective of someone in the medical-care-delivery-industry to chime in on discussions that affect us -- especially with respect to health care and early retirement.

OutFab

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2019, 06:27:24 AM »
I don't know or follow the OP, but agree in principle with the idea that conservative views are completely unwelcome on the forum.

This is the main reason I don't bother posting in political threads.

You couldn't possibly read through the political threads and come to any other conclusion.  It's black and white.  Just reading through, conservatives make arguments and poof, they just disappear.  It's never any of the liberal posters despite personal attacks and intense posts from both sides of the discussion.  The intensity is what makes the discussions interesting.

I would stand by my previous post, that if the forum is going to moderator conservative posters with a different standard compared to liberal posters, then why even have political threads?  It's frustrating reading the threads and enjoying the conversations then the alternate viewpoint just, gone.  Disappears.  Banned.  Then you wait for the next right wing sucker to take up the debate, then, banned.  Then another. It looks to be a trap for moderators to weed out right wingers!  They seem dumb enough to fall for it, and it is kind of funny, but is that the purpose of this forum?

I would ask again that the forum eliminate the political discussions.  They don't serve any purpose, appear to be weaponized, and seem to be fragmenting the forum itself.

Bateaux

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2019, 07:07:32 AM »
A lot of us MMM followers, are really Hippies trapped in a corporate/capitalist/conservative world.  We're putting in just enough of our time in that world, to hack enough money to bailout.   We like some social programs and see them as a necessary safety net.  Social Security, the ACA, pension guarantees and many other collectives are important to us.  Personal freedoms are important to us.  The environment is important to us.  When you and your leadership work against those things we see it as a threat.  The nation has split and gone tribal based on these and other philosophical differences.  That split will continue to exist here as well.  The crevasse is too wide to bridge.

GreenEggs

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2019, 07:10:09 AM »
I wonder how the ban glitch works?  I've never been banned or glitched.  I know this forum is operated on a budget version of Simple Machines.  Maybe people that post too many words per post get flagged? 


Most other forums I visit have the political threads are in the "basement" area with warnings about not getting your feelings hurt.  One of them has a word nanny, which makes us use creative spellings for dirty words. 


I enjoy reading the political threads here more than any of the other forums I visit.  The conversations are usually more intelligent and engaging.  Trolling is an issue everywhere & it's difficult to know who they are.  Maybe longer membership & non-political topic thread post count requirements would help keep trolls out.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 09:16:37 AM by GreenEggs »

GoHokies

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2019, 07:13:50 AM »
Best of luck to you! Sounds like you found a cause you are passionate about, and I wish you best of luck in your endeavors.

On the other topic at hand, probably best to wait until the mod has had a chance to defend him/herself if a banning did take place (could be a glitch too). No point in jumping to conclusions when we have only heard 1 side.

That being said I did spend some time a while back reading through some of the political threads in the off topic section. I generally don't like discussing politics.  Not because I hold "controversial" views (I would say I align with a lot of people here on most issues), but I've seen people get really nasty towards each other when discussing politics and it is very rare I see an actually productive political conversation.  However, I thought this forum might be different from what I typically see as I generally view members here to be very rationale and smart people. What I found reading through some of the discussions is the forum is the type of echo chamber type of place I generally avoid.  It felt like the vast majority of people in the forum aligned with one side of thinking and there was not adequate representation on the other side for it to be a "fair fight". But hey, almost every venue that discusses politics seems to heavily favor one type of thinking and usually does not give the other side adequate representation, so it is not like this place is any different. 

CheapScholar

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2019, 07:16:18 AM »
I’m conservative and 100% support this President.  I have made posts supporting him and have had good discussions with people with different views.  But, most of those posts were made in a thread about the Trump presidency (in the appropriate place).

Could it be that the conservative posts were non sequiturs and just made in the wrong places?  I understand that this forum leans very left.  Banning people when they hijack threads is understandable.  Banning them for bringing up conservative views when relevant to the discussion would be really sad.  I hope it’s the former and not the latter.  MAGA.


ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2019, 07:29:24 AM »
I don't know or follow the OP, but agree in principle with the idea that conservative views are completely unwelcome on the forum.

This is the main reason I don't bother posting in political threads.

I dipped my toe in the water of the Off Topic political threads for about 2-3 days and never will again. Basically, I don't buy the whole Russia conspiracy/collusion (the Trump campaign had too many leaks and was too unorganized to pull it off), I expressed doubt about the effects of the Russia troll operation (given its incredibly small scope relative to total online users), and I expressed that I thought the entire investigation was started in bad faith, and boom...I must be Putin's puppet.

The scary thing is that I voted for Obama and Hillary, and my views are pretty common among most the people I talk to in real life. But go into liberal online world/MSNBC/HuffPo? Any dissenting opinion is uneducated, unwelcome, and must be shouted down until people like me, who are otherwise pretty liberal on a ton of positions, simply give up.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 07:35:03 AM by ReadySetMillionaire »

scantee

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2019, 09:16:05 AM »
Just to be clear: have you cleared your browser cache and then tried to log in again?

I have been "banned" several times due to this glitch and this has always fixed the problem.

I assume this is the issue you are experiencing. Or, there is a vast left-wing conspiracy on the part of the moderators to take you down. Hard to say.

fuzzy math

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2019, 09:18:20 AM »
I'm sad that I won't be able to enjoy(it - the posts of) EnjoyIt any more.

I always found him to be well thought, and as another health care worker I engaged in some productive discussion with him. He isn't overly political and in general his politics were full of examples with his life as a physician. I haven't read whatever he was referenced up thread to have done.

I hope its temporary, and that if the mods would consider bringing him back that he would return. If not, best of luck to you EnjoyIt. I hope your semi FIRE is everything you'd hoped it would be and I am hopeful that you can start a movement.

Laserjet3051

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2019, 09:28:06 AM »
I’m conservative and 100% support this President.  I have made posts supporting him and have had good discussions with people with different views.  But, most of those posts were made in a thread about the Trump presidency (in the appropriate place).

Could it be that the conservative posts were non sequiturs and just made in the wrong places?  I understand that this forum leans very left.  Banning people when they hijack threads is understandable.  Banning them for bringing up conservative views when relevant to the discussion would be really sad.  I hope it’s the former and not the latter.  MAGA.

Unfortunately, conservative viewpoints in the off-topic threads, even made by some of the more central-leaning members were not tolerated well. As both a fiscal and social conservative (on many but not all issues), I dared not engage any posters in the political threads. I observed what happened when others did. It's ok that this forum skews heavily left, nothing wrong with that. But the intolerance for dissenting opinions, the personal attacks, and the gross misbehavior, keeps me away from engaging others in those threads. What this means is that we cannot have civil dialogue about important issues; the echo chamber will just continue to grow and folks like me will just keep going to the ballot box and vote accordingly. And more importantly, continue to vote with my $s.

The stereotypy of conservatives as uneducated toothless, racist, redneck, misogynists, continues to proliferate, even here on MMM. Despite the fact that virtually all of my conservative friends are well educated upper middle class doctors, lawyers, engineers, scientists and the like.  MMM is just one forum of many outlets to express ourselves in our lives. Fortunately, I don't need to engage here to help promote the ideals and values I believe in and stand for.

Bloop Bloop

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2019, 09:29:16 AM »
Just to be clear: have you cleared your browser cache and then tried to log in again?

I have been "banned" several times due to this glitch and this has always fixed the problem.

I assume this is the issue you are experiencing. Or, there is a vast left-wing conspiracy on the part of the moderators to take you down. Hard to say.

I am not saying there is any left-wing conspiracy. But I have been called a troll simply for saying that I believe my own retirement is more important than redistribution of income, and for saying that I think it's ridiculous that I pay over 2/5 of my income in federal taxes yet still get called out for 'being selfish' (for not contributing enough). So I can understand why those of us who are not fully of a left persuasion can feel lonely on these forums.

It's a bit different in real life.

DCteach

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2019, 09:37:39 AM »
EnjoyIt used the word "retards" to describe people who he believes "lack intelligence." Said it once, and then defended himself by using it again. Just saying...

scantee

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2019, 09:48:38 AM »
Just to be clear: have you cleared your browser cache and then tried to log in again?

I have been "banned" several times due to this glitch and this has always fixed the problem.

I assume this is the issue you are experiencing. Or, there is a vast left-wing conspiracy on the part of the moderators to take you down. Hard to say.

I am not saying there is any left-wing conspiracy. But I have been called a troll simply for saying that I believe my own retirement is more important than redistribution of income, and for saying that I think it's ridiculous that I pay over 2/5 of my income in federal taxes yet still get called out for 'being selfish' (for not contributing enough). So I can understand why those of us who are not fully of a left persuasion can feel lonely on these forums.

It's a bit different in real life.

Perspective is everything: I am a leftist and I find this place quite conservative, moreso than other forums I frequent. Certainly when I was "banned" my only response was to think, "mmm....bummer" not to establish a burner account to rail against an imagined right-wing plot against me. If you're feeling lonely on these forums, focus more on your real-life relationships and less on the opinions of a bunch of strangers on an obscure personal finance forum.

DadJokes

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2019, 10:03:03 AM »
I've had to stop posting in Off Topic, and I really dislike when politics bleeds into other subforums as well.

ender

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2019, 10:04:19 AM »
Unfortunately, conservative viewpoints in the off-topic threads, even made by some of the more central-leaning members were not tolerated well. As both a fiscal and social conservative (on many but not all issues), I dared not engage any posters in the political threads. I observed what happened when others did. It's ok that this forum skews heavily left, nothing wrong with that. But the intolerance for dissenting opinions, the personal attacks, and the gross misbehavior, keeps me away from engaging others in those threads. What this means is that we cannot have civil dialogue about important issues; the echo chamber will just continue to grow and folks like me will just keep going to the ballot box and vote accordingly. And more importantly, continue to vote with my $s.

The stereotypy of conservatives as uneducated toothless, racist, redneck, misogynists, continues to proliferate, even here on MMM. Despite the fact that virtually all of my conservative friends are well educated upper middle class doctors, lawyers, engineers, scientists and the like.  MMM is just one forum of many outlets to express ourselves in our lives. Fortunately, I don't need to engage here to help promote the ideals and values I believe in and stand for.

+1

Aelias

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2019, 10:05:31 AM »
Can confirm that accidental, IP address related banning is a thing. 

I got banned a couple months ago for, according to the message, "Race baiting, trolling" and was told that "This ban is not set to expire."

I thought, huh, that's weird.  Because I'm definitely not the hottest flamethrower around here.

When I was able to log in through another IP address, I messaged the mods, and they confirmed that it was not an intentional ban.

It looks like EnjoyIt was rightly dinged for using the afore mentioned slur against intellectually disabled people, but that was on 3/25, and it's not like they've been splashing it around in the week since.

Smells like a fake ban to me.

Maenad

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2019, 10:07:03 AM »
So... this was posted on April 1st.

BTDretire

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2019, 10:16:56 AM »
I don't know or follow the OP, but agree in principle with the idea that conservative views are completely unwelcome on the forum.

This is the main reason I don't bother posting in political threads.

I agree with your view, although I occasionally will post something that causes the
liberals to tell me how wrong I am, with gusto!

BTDretire

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2019, 10:26:55 AM »
 I haven't followed close enough to notice people being banned for
conservative leaning posts, but some say they notice.
I find it suspicious that no mod has come forth and said it is not true
that conservative thinkers don't get banned for expressing their thoughts. :-(

sol

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2019, 10:36:28 AM »
I haven't followed close enough to notice people being banned for
conservative leaning posts, but some say they notice.
I find it suspicious that no mod has come forth and said it is not true
that conservative thinkers don't get banned for expressing their thoughts. :-(

I doubt the mods are even aware this thread exists, unless someone has notified them.  There aren't that many of them, and they can't read every thread.

EvenSteven

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #45 on: April 02, 2019, 10:50:41 AM »
I haven't followed close enough to notice people being banned for
conservative leaning posts, but some say they notice.
I find it suspicious that no mod has come forth and said it is not true
that conservative thinkers don't get banned for expressing their thoughts. :-(


If conservatives get banned for being conservative, I find it suspicious that there are so many conservatives in this thread telling everybody how conservative they are :-)

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #46 on: April 02, 2019, 10:52:58 AM »
Yup I have the freedom to use the word retard to describe someone with a lower level of intelligence just like you have the right to call me an asshole or ignorant for doing so.

Just to confirm: Is this the type of "conservative opinion" that everyone here is convinced they need the freedom to express?

I have no idea if this is what got EnjoyIt banned, or if it's just an IP address error as others have suggested, but I think it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that his only fault was expressing conservative opinions.

BlueHouse

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #47 on: April 02, 2019, 12:12:03 PM »
I can attest to the false banning thing. There was a period of time where I couldn't visit the site from work and got the "you're banned" message. Apparently, part of their IP range had been banned for some random reason, unrelated to my actions.

I wonder if this is what happened to me?  I had a notice of banning once after what I thought was light-hearted bantering.  Next time I tried to log in...notice of being banned.  There's no way to tell if it's real or fake, and there was no way for me to review what I wrote to see how I offended someone so much

In any case, if this was a false banning, I'd really like to know because I do blame someone on these forums for reporting whatever the comment was to the mods.  And if I'm carrying around a grudge for no reason, then I'm willing to drop the grudge.  On the other hand, this member is unpleasant and disagreeable to me quite often so I'll probably keep disliking the member.

GuitarStv

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #48 on: April 02, 2019, 12:27:29 PM »
Yup I have the freedom to use the word retard to describe someone with a lower level of intelligence just like you have the right to call me an asshole or ignorant for doing so.

Just to confirm: Is this the type of "conservative opinion" that everyone here is convinced they need the freedom to express?

I have no idea if this is what got EnjoyIt banned, or if it's just an IP address error as others have suggested, but I think it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that his only fault was expressing conservative opinions.

Using the word 'retard' in a derogatory way is fundamental to conservative belief, and continuing to use it after it has been pointed out that it's offensive is a true sign of high conservative moral standing - not being an ass.  I mean, otherwise one would have to assume that the mods have been doing a pretty good job, and that the ban had nothing to do with conservatism at all.

bacchi

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Re: A last goodbye to the forum
« Reply #49 on: April 02, 2019, 12:29:58 PM »
In any case, if this was a false banning, I'd really like to know because I do blame someone on these forums for reporting whatever the comment was to the mods.  And if I'm carrying around a grudge for no reason, then I'm willing to drop the grudge.  On the other hand, this member is unpleasant and disagreeable to me quite often so I'll probably keep disliking the member.

I probably wouldn't be a better person but ya gotta admit -- this is pretty funny.