Author Topic: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City  (Read 11994 times)

caseywoolley

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A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« on: April 27, 2016, 09:56:13 AM »
Housing and transportation are about 50% of the average American's spending.  Mustachians sidestep some of these costs by being smarter about home size and car use despite the fact that suburbia and most cities are designed to prevent this.  Good neighborhoods often mandate larger homes with long commutes and most cities are designed for cars, not people.  Some cities are better than others but for the most part they're homogeneous "Exploding Volcanos of Wastefulness." 

Ditching city life has way too many tradeoffs to be worth it.  But what if we "ditched" the current city model?  Could a group of like minded Mustachians crowdfund their own super town with great amenities, walkability, and low cost of living?  What are your thoughts?

JustGettingStarted1980

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2016, 10:24:12 AM »
Sounds expensive :) 

Good thought experiment. But extremely difficult to do unless people were already retired and didn't need jobs, AND there was a uber-wealthy benefactor willing to contribute billions of start-up costs to build the infrastructure necessary for a modern town or city.

For example, sewers, sidewalks, roads, police stations, hospitals, fire stations, schools, libraries don't come cheap last time I checked, and I'd be unwilling to live in a place without these amenities.


Metric Mouse

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2016, 12:31:20 PM »
Sounds expensive :) 

Good thought experiment. But extremely difficult to do unless people were already retired and didn't need jobs, AND there was a uber-wealthy benefactor willing to contribute billions of start-up costs to build the infrastructure necessary for a modern town or city.

For example, sewers, sidewalks, roads, police stations, hospitals, fire stations, schools, libraries don't come cheap last time I checked, and I'd be unwilling to live in a place without these amenities.

Wouldn't a true mustachian city be built by the residents DIY style?
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hoping2retire35

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2016, 02:14:31 PM »
You would want a "ghost town" where a lot of infrastructure is already in place but the population is not using it. fairly small, capable of handling approximately ~10,000(good number to maintain flexibility and still get economies of scale). SoCal would be great but it is already taken and running out of water. next choice might be northern New Mexico, warm mild climate maybe with some slight elevation.

then the hard part; once the town has been chosen how do you have a gentleman's agreement that no one buys speculative lots.

hoping2retire35

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2016, 02:17:55 PM »
got it.

we form a corporation, elect board member sell shares. the board selects the town(in secret) buys the available land/lots (then reveals the location) sell them and distributes revenue to shareholders, closes corporation.

Jeremy E.

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2016, 03:09:19 PM »
You would want a "ghost town" where a lot of infrastructure is already in place but the population is not using it. fairly small, capable of handling approximately ~10,000(good number to maintain flexibility and still get economies of scale). SoCal would be great but it is already taken and running out of water. next choice might be northern New Mexico, warm mild climate maybe with some slight elevation.

then the hard part; once the town has been chosen how do you have a gentleman's agreement that no one buys speculative lots.
I think you would want to build your own town, so you could make bike paths and footpaths instead of roads, require a permit to bring cars/equipment into the town, etc. have small lots and/or apartments so that people can live closer to each other and everything they need, etc. If you just wanted to live near other mustachians, move to longmont near MMM, I hear there's quite a few.

hoping2retire35

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2016, 03:24:23 PM »
You would want a "ghost town" where a lot of infrastructure is already in place but the population is not using it. fairly small, capable of handling approximately ~10,000(good number to maintain flexibility and still get economies of scale). SoCal would be great but it is already taken and running out of water. next choice might be northern New Mexico, warm mild climate maybe with some slight elevation.

then the hard part; once the town has been chosen how do you have a gentleman's agreement that no one buys speculative lots.
I think you would want to build your own town, so you could make bike paths and footpaths instead of roads, require a permit to bring cars/equipment into the town, etc. have small lots and/or apartments so that people can live closer to each other and everything they need, etc. If you just wanted to live near other mustachians, move to longmont near MMM, I hear there's quite a few.
The difference between a bike lane and care lane is paint. the advantage of a "ghost town" is buildings, graded roads/paths, water and sewer lines already exist. there would need to be a lot of improvements, especially as you reached capacity but for the initial early adopters it would make things easier and cheaper and allow future improvements to be gradual while also not destroying previously undeveloped land.

it wouldn't have to be a ghost town in the sense the population has greatly decreased but could be a place where it never was populated as people/developers suspected.

Jeremy E.

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2016, 03:27:26 PM »
You would want a "ghost town" where a lot of infrastructure is already in place but the population is not using it. fairly small, capable of handling approximately ~10,000(good number to maintain flexibility and still get economies of scale). SoCal would be great but it is already taken and running out of water. next choice might be northern New Mexico, warm mild climate maybe with some slight elevation.

then the hard part; once the town has been chosen how do you have a gentleman's agreement that no one buys speculative lots.
I think you would want to build your own town, so you could make bike paths and footpaths instead of roads, require a permit to bring cars/equipment into the town, etc. have small lots and/or apartments so that people can live closer to each other and everything they need, etc. If you just wanted to live near other mustachians, move to longmont near MMM, I hear there's quite a few.
The difference between a bike lane and care lane is paint. the advantage of a "ghost town" is buildings, graded roads/paths, water and sewer lines already exist. there would need to be a lot of improvements, especially as you reached capacity but for the initial early adopters it would make things easier and cheaper and allow future improvements to be gradual while also not destroying previously undeveloped land.

it wouldn't have to be a ghost town in the sense the population has greatly decreased but could be a place where it never was populated as people/developers suspected.
If you choose an already existing place, then you will live near mustachians, but also near non-mustachians who already lived their. Many of the inefficiencies of normal cities will exist as well, probably huge lots that make biking places more dificult, etc.

AZDude

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2016, 04:49:32 PM »

caseywoolley

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2016, 07:25:17 PM »
You would want a "ghost town" where a lot of infrastructure is already in place but the population is not using it. fairly small, capable of handling approximately ~10,000(good number to maintain flexibility and still get economies of scale). SoCal would be great but it is already taken and running out of water. next choice might be northern New Mexico, warm mild climate maybe with some slight elevation.

then the hard part; once the town has been chosen how do you have a gentleman's agreement that no one buys speculative lots.

My answer to the land speculation problem would be a Henry George land tax which is very mustachian in it's simplicity and efficiency: http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2015/04/land-value-tax

The way I'd see it working in this situation would be a publicly held land trust and essentially a citizen's dividend from all land rents.  Speculation would then be impossible, sprawl eliminated, and all land would be put to it's most efficient use.

hoping2retire35

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2016, 08:25:05 PM »
How is this different than property taxes now? Iirc Alaska is the only state that for the most part does not tax property. Most states have reduced rates for home owners who live on the premises. Farm land is often at a reduced rate ( if not the state governments would suddenly own 80% of all of their territory ASIs most farm land is not at it's maximum capacity.) propertytaxesthroughout mush of the US is a bought as high as markets can handle.

Even if you don't see property tax as theft doing what you say would not change development patterns that much since taxes are currently based on value. I think Portland or is one of the more famous cities to have a growth boundary and they are known to have problems.

Gone

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2016, 01:13:31 PM »
Privately planned cities seem to rarely work. Cities aren't easy to make. Aside from actual problems of construction, any time a city is built around an ideology (good or bad), things tend to get wonky. Ask every libertarian utopia that's failed. Better to be involved in changing your current infrastructure than to Go Galt. Or at the very least, start on just the commune level and see if you can work your way up.

Jeremy E.

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2016, 02:13:26 PM »
Privately planned cities seem to rarely work. Cities aren't easy to make. Aside from actual problems of construction, any time a city is built around an ideology (good or bad), things tend to get wonky. Ask every libertarian utopia that's failed. Better to be involved in changing your current infrastructure than to Go Galt. Or at the very least, start on just the commune level and see if you can work your way up.
We're just dreaming here, we weren't planning on going out and building a city

Allen Farlow

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2016, 07:42:09 PM »
A recent article I read a few days ago which said states with zero income taxes had high sales taxes to replace that revenue.

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/state-with-no-income-tax-better-or-worse-1.aspx

I think it would be interesting to start a small town where everyone works online in various niches, thus no need to drive anywhere for employment. It would, out of necessity, need to be built around a central shopping district within decent walking distance to reduce the need for motor vehicles.

And for Heaven's sake, the stores must accept PayPal!

bobechs

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2016, 08:36:20 PM »
Military bases are planned communities where all infrastructure is integrated, an ideology governs its operation and often as not only limited accommodation to automobiles is built in.

Worldwide, and in the United States in particular, bases are often obsoleted and surplussed. That removes the ideological layer in one swoop.

But they are also highly desirable property plums for the local political-economic elite; no mustashcians need apply.

caseywoolley

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2016, 06:28:24 AM »
A recent article I read a few days ago which said states with zero income taxes had high sales taxes to replace that revenue.

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/state-with-no-income-tax-better-or-worse-1.aspx

I think it would be interesting to start a small town where everyone works online in various niches, thus no need to drive anywhere for employment. It would, out of necessity, need to be built around a central shopping district within decent walking distance to reduce the need for motor vehicles.

And for Heaven's sake, the stores must accept PayPal!

That's exactly my thinking.  Imagine a town of remote tech workers with shared work areas, shopping and amenities all in a walkable city.  And a lower cost of living to make those remote salaries go further.

caseywoolley

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2016, 07:13:35 AM »
Sounds expensive :) 

Good thought experiment. But extremely difficult to do unless people were already retired and didn't need jobs, AND there was a uber-wealthy benefactor willing to contribute billions of start-up costs to build the infrastructure necessary for a modern town or city.

For example, sewers, sidewalks, roads, police stations, hospitals, fire stations, schools, libraries don't come cheap last time I checked, and I'd be unwilling to live in a place without these amenities.

If the average mustachian can live a middle class lifestyle at only 20-50% the cost of the average american, why not apply their creativity to building a city at a similar discount.  Would we really need the same bloated infrastructure everyone thinks is mandatory?  What about smart off grid housing?  And as someone else mentioned, remote workers would be the perfect early settlers to pump dollars into the local economy.


Allen Farlow

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2016, 07:54:00 AM »
Which would be more preferable to you?

1. Housing separated from businesses, such as a central business area with housing dispersed around it.

2. A mix of housing and businesses, including housing above ground floor businesses.

PursuingIndependence

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2016, 08:16:43 AM »
This idea reminds me of a book I read a few years back, Walden II. A community was started based on simple living, self-sufficiency, and they built their own homes and all worked together. It was a pretty interesting concept. I remember thinking it would be cool to actually find a place like that. It is a little different in that in that book businesses were not really involved in their community and they were about hard work but enough to keep the community going while still enjoying life (I think it was a 4 hour work day?).

LennStar

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2016, 08:36:53 AM »
Which would be more preferable to you?

1. Housing separated from businesses, such as a central business area with housing dispersed around it.

2. A mix of housing and businesses, including housing above ground floor businesses.
You are asking the wrong question, mainly by reducing the options.
First you can have both 1. and 2. in minimum distance.
I STRONGLY recommend everyone of you who is really interested in that topic to read this (and the there linked prior post)
http://urbankchoze.blogspot.nl/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html

by the way, Monasteries used to be mostly independend and often still try to do this. Of course you cant do your computer chips, but you can do a lot of stuff, especially if you are a community of intelligent, DIY prone people with lot of free time and basic financial resource already in place.


Jeremy E.

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2016, 11:55:10 AM »
I think if I were designing it, I'd want to build it around a small river, with river beaches on either side.
Lots of swimming, kayaking, rafting, floating, etc. can be done on the river
Have a huge park(probably a circle with a 2 mile diameter)  surrounded by apartments
Within the park have a few schools, a library, lots of sports fields(baseball fields, tennis courts, volleyball nets on river beaches, etc.), a few grocery stores,  a cafe, a health clinic and vet clinic(and be within a 1 hr drive of a bigger city with a hospital), a small fire department (which would also have ambulances that could rush you to the hospital in the bigger city), a small sheriffs office with 2-3 deputies (assuming we are our own county), outside the apartments we could have a golf course, bike trails (downhill etc.), Costco, county/town building, etc. things that we need/want occasionally, but not often enough to be in the park.
Ambulances, firetrucks, sherriffs vehicles, etc. are the only vehicles allowed in the park without a permit, all construction equipment etc. needs a permit, cars stay on other side of apartments. I'm guessing most people wouldn't own cars, some would own cars and use Turo or something similar to rent cars to whoever needs them when they aren't in use.
Apartments would be 200-1000 square feet each, the park could only support a small town, I'm not sure the exact amount but probably somewhere between 3,000-8,000 people, so we probably only need the apartments to be 3 story max apartments. If the town ended up being a big success, someone could use the knowledge learned from it to modify the design and make another one slightly up river
 I'd put in a Gen4 nuclear reactor just outside the town (they are testing many variations, we'd go for whichever makes the most sense), maybe this could be a main employer of the town, providing generation to ourselves and selling to surrounding areas as well.
Heres a very rough draft

v8rx7guy

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2016, 12:00:46 PM »
Frankly... it would probably become a pretty annoying place to live judging by the direction most of the topics go around here.

Metric Mouse

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2016, 04:38:43 AM »
Frankly... it would probably become a pretty annoying place to live judging by the direction most of the topics go around here.

That would be people on the internet... Seems like the biggest issue people have with cities of any style is...other people.
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GreenEggs

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2016, 06:16:56 AM »
Sounds like a great idea in many ways, but any retail stores there would have a heck of a time surviving with so many cheapskates for customers.  The banks would go broke without suckers borrowing.  There wouldn't even be a Goodwill, because there'd be nothing worth donating after the MMM folks squeezed all the last drop of usefulness from everything.  You couldn't even sell mouse traps, because the mice would starve!  The only guy in town making any money from the locals would be selling bicycle tube patches, and maybe toilet paper....

The sketch above of the park on the river sounds nice, but I'd never consider living in an apartment.  I tried living in a small space, but hated it.  I need space for my stuff(tools & materials, and toys) & to work on projects.  I'd have gotten divorced a long time ago if we didn't have more sq feet. 

Sure we all could export our goods & services to non MMM areas, but we still wouldn't support a local economy that would be culturally interesting.  Restaurants, athletes, artists, and entertainers couldn't survive.  Costco & the library would be the local hot spots.  The park would be great on the sunny days, but where would we hang out the rest of the time? 

I'm sure a lot of this could be overcome, but it would take some serious thought & planning for us to learn to live without the "normal" wasteful culture that we are all used to exploiting.   

Jeremy E.

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2016, 09:34:19 AM »
Sounds like a great idea in many ways, but any retail stores there would have a heck of a time surviving with so many cheapskates for customers.  The banks would go broke without suckers borrowing.  There wouldn't even be a Goodwill, because there'd be nothing worth donating after the MMM folks squeezed all the last drop of usefulness from everything.  You couldn't even sell mouse traps, because the mice would starve!  The only guy in town making any money from the locals would be selling bicycle tube patches, and maybe toilet paper....

The sketch above of the park on the river sounds nice, but I'd never consider living in an apartment.  I tried living in a small space, but hated it.  I need space for my stuff(tools & materials, and toys) & to work on projects.  I'd have gotten divorced a long time ago if we didn't have more sq feet. 

Sure we all could export our goods & services to non MMM areas, but we still wouldn't support a local economy that would be culturally interesting.  Restaurants, athletes, artists, and entertainers couldn't survive.  Costco & the library would be the local hot spots.  The park would be great on the sunny days, but where would we hang out the rest of the time? 

I'm sure a lot of this could be overcome, but it would take some serious thought & planning for us to learn to live without the "normal" wasteful culture that we are all used to exploiting.
Half the point of my design was to eliminate the need of cars where people do most of their living, if everyone lived in their own house, they would still want to drive everywhere as things would be a lot more spread out and farther away.

caseywoolley

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2016, 07:21:30 PM »
Sounds like a great idea in many ways, but any retail stores there would have a heck of a time surviving with so many cheapskates for customers.  The banks would go broke without suckers borrowing.  There wouldn't even be a Goodwill, because there'd be nothing worth donating after the MMM folks squeezed all the last drop of usefulness from everything.  You couldn't even sell mouse traps, because the mice would starve!  The only guy in town making any money from the locals would be selling bicycle tube patches, and maybe toilet paper....

The sketch above of the park on the river sounds nice, but I'd never consider living in an apartment.  I tried living in a small space, but hated it.  I need space for my stuff(tools & materials, and toys) & to work on projects.  I'd have gotten divorced a long time ago if we didn't have more sq feet. 

Sure we all could export our goods & services to non MMM areas, but we still wouldn't support a local economy that would be culturally interesting.  Restaurants, athletes, artists, and entertainers couldn't survive.  Costco & the library would be the local hot spots.  The park would be great on the sunny days, but where would we hang out the rest of the time? 

I'm sure a lot of this could be overcome, but it would take some serious thought & planning for us to learn to live without the "normal" wasteful culture that we are all used to exploiting.

Costco and the library, it's so true!  And it would take a special breed of business to survive in a Mustachian city.  But seriously though, I refuse to believe that Mustachian's need the 'normal' wasteful economy.  A Mustachian city would be different, but much better than a normal city.  The economics would just be different.  For example, how much do athletes, artists, entertainers need to earn to follow their passions when a town is so efficient that the cost of living is practically zero?  More people could just do what they love.

Kroaler

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2016, 07:25:00 AM »
Arent the Amish communities already pretty mustachian?  Why reinvent the wheel.

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2016, 08:10:29 AM »
Strangely, this sounds a bit like my parents' retirement community -- small homes, bike lanes everywhere, grocery and restaurants you can bike or take your golf cart to, central "campus" with library, health center, classrooms, studios, theater.  The golf courses might be outside the mustachian way though!
There's no reason to be a slave to a commute, a house, or a job.

Metric Mouse

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2016, 04:50:39 AM »
Arent the Amish communities already pretty mustachian?  Why reinvent the wheel.

I think their views on money and work are a bit different than the tenets of mustachianism. And all that farm land is very inefficient - it would be so far to bike around to get the grocery store to buy your organic produce. :P
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Jeremy E.

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2016, 10:00:15 AM »
Arent the Amish communities already pretty mustachian?  Why reinvent the wheel.

I think their views on money and work are a bit different than the tenets of mustachianism. And all that farm land is very inefficient - it would be so far to bike around to get the grocery store to buy your organic produce. :P
I wouldn't sell organic produce in my mustachian city.... but that's a discussion for a different thread

caseywoolley

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2016, 02:24:33 PM »
Sounds like a great idea in many ways, but any retail stores there would have a heck of a time surviving with so many cheapskates for customers.  The banks would go broke without suckers borrowing.  There wouldn't even be a Goodwill, because there'd be nothing worth donating after the MMM folks squeezed all the last drop of usefulness from everything.  You couldn't even sell mouse traps, because the mice would starve!  The only guy in town making any money from the locals would be selling bicycle tube patches, and maybe toilet paper....

The sketch above of the park on the river sounds nice, but I'd never consider living in an apartment.  I tried living in a small space, but hated it.  I need space for my stuff(tools & materials, and toys) & to work on projects.  I'd have gotten divorced a long time ago if we didn't have more sq feet. 

Sure we all could export our goods & services to non MMM areas, but we still wouldn't support a local economy that would be culturally interesting.  Restaurants, athletes, artists, and entertainers couldn't survive.  Costco & the library would be the local hot spots.  The park would be great on the sunny days, but where would we hang out the rest of the time? 

I'm sure a lot of this could be overcome, but it would take some serious thought & planning for us to learn to live without the "normal" wasteful culture that we are all used to exploiting.
Half the point of my design was to eliminate the need of cars where people do most of their living, if everyone lived in their own house, they would still want to drive everywhere as things would be a lot more spread out and farther away.

Transportation is a key point for cost savings individually and even more so collectively.  The best way I've seen to handle sprawl would be with a land value tax (LVT) and proper usage fees.  If done right, sprawl would be eliminated by the burden of it's own high costs.

"Estimates are that the typical driver pays only about a tenth of the true cost of his travel; society picks up the rest. This profuse subsidy paid to private automobile and truck transportation further encourages people to locate on sites at far greater distances from where they would choose than if they had to pay the full burden of that travel."

"the range of costs induced by spread-out development, . . [i.e.] houses built in sprawling developments, may cost 40 to 400 percent more to serve than if they were located close to major facilities, were clustered in continuous areas, and in corporate a variety of housing types."

Source: http://www.wealthandwant.com/docs/Batt_Nexus_TERLU.html

infogoon

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2016, 01:20:44 PM »
I've thought about this when the yearly city foreclosure auction rolls around; there are parts of Buffalo (and other Rust Belt cities too, I'm sure) that are mostly abandoned; there might be three occupied houses on a street of thirty. It would be fun to buy up the housing stock for a few thousand dollars apiece with a group of likeminded citizens and rebuild the whole neighborhood at once.

GreenEggs

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2016, 07:44:04 PM »
I've thought about this when the yearly city foreclosure auction rolls around; there are parts of Buffalo (and other Rust Belt cities too, I'm sure) that are mostly abandoned; there might be three occupied houses on a street of thirty. It would be fun to buy up the housing stock for a few thousand dollars apiece with a group of likeminded citizens and rebuild the whole neighborhood at once.

That's a great idea. 

It reminds me of a local old mill that a Turkish guy bought for peanuts.  I don't know the sq ft, but it's a huge building on 50 acres in downtown Mooresville, NC (about 30 min from Charlotte).  He paid $500K for it and has turned a lot of it into a big design/furniture outlet, a large brick oven pizza shop, and has covered the roof with solar panels to sell $130K of electricity to Duke Power per year.  I don't know what else he has planned for it.
The guy also purchased a couple of other old mills in SC and in GA.

I know he had to spend a lot on the old leaky roof, and the solar panels were costly, but the land alone would be worth more than $500K in the city limits of most any town. 

Perhaps the "Mustachian City" could be made easier by reusing old abandoned neighborhoods or manufacturing plants since the infrastructure is already in place and available at heavily discounted prices.



 

yuka

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2016, 12:40:17 AM »
I feel like the ghost town people are mentioning exists, and it's Detroit.

The problem with building a proper town in the current day is that it's wildly disincentivized, meaning that developing a place correctly is much more expensive than doing it the way everyone else is doing it.

caseywoolley

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2016, 07:57:21 AM »
My question is how much does infrastructure really cost?  This article mentions $500 to $750 per person per year: http://newclimateeconomy.net/content/release-urban-sprawl-costs-us-economy-more-1-trillion-year
It just seems like if an inefficient government gets it done at the current price with our own tax money couldn't private citizens and the free market do it better, faster and cheaper with smarter design and innovation?

LennStar

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2016, 01:08:49 PM »
My question is how much does infrastructure really cost?  This article mentions $500 to $750 per person per year: http://newclimateeconomy.net/content/release-urban-sprawl-costs-us-economy-more-1-trillion-year
It just seems like if an inefficient government gets it done at the current price with our own tax money couldn't private citizens and the free market do it better, faster and cheaper with smarter design and innovation?
Yes!
Just change the
.gov to
.com
and everything is half price!

I would think it is a bit more pricey for low density. Even the higher 750 is quite low I think. Of course it depends what you count for infrastructure and what you build.

Ceciltguitar

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2016, 09:42:08 PM »
Probably not what the op had in mind, but at least tangential food for thought:

http://www.dancingrabbit.org

http://www.ic.org

Also, Google ecovillages, co-housing, farm subdivisions.


Ceciltguitar

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2016, 02:05:31 PM »
Google agrihood




hoping2retire35

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2016, 07:29:16 AM »
ok, I have been thinking about this some more. What do we really want?

available outdoor activities(nat'l parks, forests, etc) within reasonable distance.
environment where most of the year can be spent outside (enjoyably)
smaller, more affordable homes
Walkable.
how important to everyone is it to have their own yard. could you live without a yard if it meant a spacious condo? what type of storage does everyone need.
selection of goods and services.
centralized parks
high speed internet.
What else? What are the most important things?

Others have noted about having a more centralized plan around some business district or a park verus having a more mixed use plan. The difference between these two is growth. The centralized plan means growth has to be planned in large amounts at a time, as in a whole new centralized neighborhood adjacent to the first one. Fill that up to 80% then begin to plan the next one(it will be a weird few years if you are the firest resident living a partially developed area with your closest neighbor 2 miles away). Whereas the mixed-use blocks OTOH can be done incrementally, one after the other. If you are living or have a business on the newest block then no biggie, all the customers and stores are just across the street.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 09:48:55 AM by hoping2retire35 »

Making Cookies

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2016, 08:19:14 AM »
Housing and transportation are about 50% of the average American's spending.  Mustachians sidestep some of these costs by being smarter about home size and car use despite the fact that suburbia and most cities are designed to prevent this.  Good neighborhoods often mandate larger homes with long commutes and most cities are designed for cars, not people.  Some cities are better than others but for the most part they're homogeneous "Exploding Volcanos of Wastefulness." 

Ditching city life has way too many tradeoffs to be worth it.  But what if we "ditched" the current city model?  Could a group of like minded Mustachians crowdfund their own super town with great amenities, walkability, and low cost of living?  What are your thoughts?

We could call it "Galt's Gulch". ;)

Seriously, I like your idea. If it could happen.

http://www.thevillages.com

We thought that was pretty cool. All spread out for miles but at least the shopping was there, there was entertainment, clubs galore, and cart/bike paths everywhere. We have a friend that lives there.

DW & I would never fit into a place like that. Critters and workshop alone would prevent us from living there.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 08:28:47 AM by Mybigtoe »

YogiKitti

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #45 on: July 20, 2016, 10:39:27 PM »
Google agrihood

I would love to live in a place like this. Within walking distance of things that I need, yet surrounded by nature. I am fine living in an apartment if there are community gardens. My current apartment view is a parking lot.

Kaspian

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #46 on: July 20, 2016, 11:57:23 PM »
Pauline at "Reach Financial Independence," is actually building her own little Mustachian community.  Yeah, you have to "crowdfund" your own way in, no free ride.  But some of the lots are ony $7K.  Very affordable!  I'd buy one if I was already FIRE.

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arebelspy

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2016, 02:58:10 AM »
Following!

I'm very interested in the idea of a Mustachian community (to the point that we are probably moving to one for two months next summer to try it out and help plan permanent one(s)).

Pauline at "Reach Financial Independence," is actually building her own little Mustachian community.  Yeah, you have to "crowdfund" your own way in, no free ride.  But some of the lots are ony $7K.  Very affordable!  I'd buy one if I was already FIRE.

http://reachfinancialindependence.com/guatemala/

EDIT: Looks like she was the lady profiled here: http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/mustachianism-around-the-web/gal-retires-even-earlier-by-moving-to-guatemala/

The idea sounds interesting.  Looks like this is the website for it: http://sanpedroitza.com/about/
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 03:10:59 AM by arebelspy »
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pbkmaine

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2016, 03:43:14 AM »
Let's see, which stores would do well? We'd need an Aldi, a bike shop - what else?

Making Cookies

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Re: A Crowdfunded Mustachian City
« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2016, 08:15:42 AM »
used bookstore... farmer's market... old style hardware store for DIY projects and repairs...