Author Topic: 2020 POTUS Candidates  (Read 235520 times)

pecunia

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2250 on: February 17, 2020, 04:02:45 PM »

- SNIP -

We can dream can't we?

Hmmmmm,......Hillary again?  Bloomberg ?When do dreams become nightmares?

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2251 on: February 18, 2020, 06:07:14 AM »
Bloomberg has qualified for the debate. Seriously, could there be a less appealing candidate? A billionaire who has bought his way on the Democratic side to be on stage. Not young. Not liberal enough to energize the more liberal base. Billed as a moderate but known mostly for things like gun control that will energize the conservative base against him. Ripe for mockery with things like soda bans. Not to mention all of his stop and frisk stuff. Wow....

KBecks

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bacchi

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2253 on: February 19, 2020, 01:42:25 PM »
Well, Trump's treatment of women isn't exactly stellar either. That didn't stop a lot people from voting for him.

The only good thing about Bloomberg is that it draws Trump's attention away from the other candidates. Bloomberg hits back, too, and he's stated that he'll air anti-Trump ads even if he doesn't win the nomination.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2254 on: February 19, 2020, 06:28:27 PM »
Well, Trump's treatment of women isn't exactly stellar either. That didn't stop a lot people from voting for him.

That comparison would be appropriate if Trump needed the support of the Democratic base to be elected.

Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2255 on: February 19, 2020, 06:35:37 PM »
Well, Trump's treatment of women isn't exactly stellar either. That didn't stop a lot people from voting for him.

That comparison would be appropriate if Trump needed the support of the Democratic base to be elected.

True.

Republicans literally do not care how many pussies Trump grabs, how many women he rapes, or how many wives he cheats on.

Democrats, however, seem to have slightly higher standards, judging from past reactions.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2256 on: February 19, 2020, 06:50:18 PM »
Tonight's debate available for free streaming

www.msnbc.com/live

bonus - commercials with Lea Michele

GuitarStv

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2257 on: February 19, 2020, 06:58:32 PM »
Well, Trump's treatment of women isn't exactly stellar either. That didn't stop a lot people from voting for him.

That comparison would be appropriate if Trump needed the support of the Democratic base to be elected.

True.

Republicans literally do not care how many pussies Trump grabs, how many women he rapes, or how many wives he cheats on.

Democrats, however, seem to have slightly higher standards, judging from past reactions.

Something something religion morality.  :P

kenmoremmm

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2258 on: February 20, 2020, 01:37:28 AM »
why is being a millionaire a bad thing for a POTUS candidate? mayor pete is proud of not being one. doesn't that suggest bad money management?

former player

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2259 on: February 20, 2020, 02:36:17 AM »
why is being a millionaire a bad thing for a POTUS candidate? mayor pete is proud of not being one. doesn't that suggest bad money management?
No, it suggests that he is 38 with a career in public service.  And rather more relatable I would have thought than those who are getting on for nearly twice his age, have been earning six figure salaries (9 figure salaries in Bloomberg's case) for many years and got into the property market decades ago.

Lmoot

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2260 on: February 20, 2020, 03:20:08 AM »
why is being a millionaire a bad thing for a POTUS candidate? mayor pete is proud of not being one. doesn't that suggest bad money management?

How in the world is not being a millionaire by age 38, an indicator of poor money management? If you are fortunate enough to be a high income earner, then you are also walking proof as to why most people cannot relate to high income earners, and why some high income earners obviously cannot relate to the real world.

KBecks

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2261 on: February 20, 2020, 05:36:10 AM »
I am not overly concerned with politicians' net worth, and many of them will become wealthy after high office by speaking engagements and other opportunities. 

Watched part of the debate and I liked the women the most.  Liked how Klobuchar defended not remembering the Mexican president's name and pushed back on Buttegieg.  Buttigeig had some good lines, for sure and he presents well because he's much younger. 

I appreciated Bloomberg getting kicked around by the group, to be honest.

former player

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2262 on: February 20, 2020, 05:52:31 AM »
A momentary lapse of memory is something you have for something which isn't important to you.  I like Klobuchar but that was a big red flag for someone who wants to lead the USA's foreign policy and who has apparently spent at least some of her time as Senator on foreign policy and trade issues.

maizeman

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2263 on: February 20, 2020, 06:36:42 AM »
Klobuchar provided a genuine laugh when I heard she'd said she believes the way to end sexism on the internet was to nominate a woman for president.

Had to check the clip to make sure that line wasn't taken out of context or misquoted, and no she really said and apparently meant that.

It was later pointed out that the dems actually did nominate a woman in 2016. So ... problem solved?

To be clear my own observations since 2016 would indicate that it isn't.

kenmoremmm

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2264 on: February 20, 2020, 10:54:03 AM »
why is being a millionaire a bad thing for a POTUS candidate? mayor pete is proud of not being one. doesn't that suggest bad money management?

How in the world is not being a millionaire by age 38, an indicator of poor money management? If you are fortunate enough to be a high income earner, then you are also walking proof as to why most people cannot relate to high income earners, and why some high income earners obviously cannot relate to the real world.

look at these salaries. can you tell me you wouldn't be a millionaire by now? it sure would be pretty close. and, he's 38 and has a net worth of $100k???
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewithorn/2019/06/07/how-much-is-pete-buttigieg-worth/#48a9d5703dd3

EvenSteven

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2265 on: February 20, 2020, 11:17:38 AM »
why is being a millionaire a bad thing for a POTUS candidate? mayor pete is proud of not being one. doesn't that suggest bad money management?

How in the world is not being a millionaire by age 38, an indicator of poor money management? If you are fortunate enough to be a high income earner, then you are also walking proof as to why most people cannot relate to high income earners, and why some high income earners obviously cannot relate to the real world.

look at these salaries. can you tell me you wouldn't be a millionaire by now? it sure would be pretty close. and, he's 38 and has a net worth of $100k???
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewithorn/2019/06/07/how-much-is-pete-buttigieg-worth/#48a9d5703dd3

Yes? If he had expenses of 50k per year including taxes and saved the rest, earned 10% per year on all his savings, he would have what, like 600k?

Easily less than a million.

If he had expenses of ~75K per year including taxes, that would put him at about a net worth of 100k. It's not mustachian, but doesn't seem crazy.

Nick_Miller

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2266 on: February 20, 2020, 12:04:05 PM »
I thought Pete did great last night. I lol'ed at how much he pissed off Klob.

I would vote for Bernie over Bloomberg, if it comes down to it (I hope it doesn't). I just don't know how much impact the debate will have, when as Warren said, Bloomberg will probably spend another $100M in ads in the next 24 ads.

Warren is probably my 2nd choice now. Her first line about horse-faced lesbians......god damn she murdered him. Her prep was outstanding, other than the times when she named-dropped three other candidates in the same answer. You're going to get incoming x3!!

pecunia

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2267 on: February 20, 2020, 03:57:48 PM »
As Warren said, Pete going on about not remembering the Mexican president's name seemed rather petty.

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2268 on: February 20, 2020, 06:15:30 PM »
why is being a millionaire a bad thing for a POTUS candidate? mayor pete is proud of not being one. doesn't that suggest bad money management?
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Purity%20Spiral

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2269 on: February 20, 2020, 07:10:20 PM »
Just curious what the more Democratic leaning people here thought of the debate. Too contentious? Finally arguing things of substance rather than just nice platitudes for each other? Something entirely different? Do you think it will help/hurt/have no effect on the overall race?

Samuel

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2270 on: February 21, 2020, 11:55:51 AM »
I've seen clips from prior debates, but this was the first one I actually sat down and watched (ok, at least the first 100 minutes of it) so I don't know how different it was to the earlier ones.

I figured it would be especially contentious, what with Bloomberg appearing on the scene and it being only a few weeks before Super Tuesday and the likely demise of several campaigns, but I was rather dismayed at just how much of the debate was the candidates looking for opportunities to deploy pre-written slams on each other. It was entertaining for a while but I can't say I learned much or came away with a more favorable opinion of any candidate.

Honestly, I didn't get a whole lot out of it other than a foreboding sense of impending doom.

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2271 on: February 21, 2020, 12:13:08 PM »
I've seen clips from prior debates, but this was the first one I actually sat down and watched (ok, at least the first 100 minutes of it) so I don't know how different it was to the earlier ones.

I figured it would be especially contentious, what with Bloomberg appearing on the scene and it being only a few weeks before Super Tuesday and the likely demise of several campaigns, but I was rather dismayed at just how much of the debate was the candidates looking for opportunities to deploy pre-written slams on each other. It was entertaining for a while but I can't say I learned much or came away with a more favorable opinion of any candidate.

Honestly, I didn't get a whole lot out of it other than a foreboding sense of impending doom.

I am certainly not unbiased, but I had some more independent friends who felt the same way about the continual slams in terms of it not boding well, so I was curious what others thought.

MayDay

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2272 on: February 21, 2020, 06:29:52 PM »
I'd say overall Dem friends and myself thought it was one of the best debates.

If rather stuff come out now than later on.

I thought Bloomberg got destroyed which made me happy.

Iade my first ever campaign donation afterwards (to Warren). She isn't my tip choice of all the original candidates, but from what I get to choose from on super Tuesday she is ahead of the pack.

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2273 on: February 21, 2020, 08:10:25 PM »
I'd say overall Dem friends and myself thought it was one of the best debates.

If rather stuff come out now than later on.

I thought Bloomberg got destroyed which made me happy.

Iade my first ever campaign donation afterwards (to Warren). She isn't my tip choice of all the original candidates, but from what I get to choose from on super Tuesday she is ahead of the pack.

I guess my thoughts about it being a detriment are hinged on whether or not the insults and attacks will lead to enough liberal voters not supporting the eventual nominee by not coming out to vote. I can't imagine it would swing many to voting for Trump who wouldn't already be doing it, but I could see the former maybe happening *shrugs*.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2274 on: February 22, 2020, 07:10:18 AM »
Can a candidate award his delegates to another candidate?

Lets say after super Tuesday Biden drops out of the race but he has accumulated some delegates.
Can Biden then say I give Buttigieg my delegates ?

maizeman

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2275 on: February 22, 2020, 07:18:55 AM »
Can a candidate award his delegates to another candidate?

Lets say after super Tuesday Biden drops out of the race but he has accumulated some delegates.
Can Biden then say I give Buttigieg my delegates ?

He can say it. As I understand it, his delegates aren't bound to follow what he says about who to vote for if he releases them from being bound to vote for him in the first round.

But obviously the campaign will try as much as possible to select people as potential delegates who are going to listen to what the candidate says. Both for situations like the one you describe, and in order to avoid losing votes in the second round if Biden stays int he race through the convention and it does end up being a brokered convention.

MayDay

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2276 on: February 22, 2020, 04:21:27 PM »
I'd say overall Dem friends and myself thought it was one of the best debates.

If rather stuff come out now than later on.

I thought Bloomberg got destroyed which made me happy.

Iade my first ever campaign donation afterwards (to Warren). She isn't my tip choice of all the original candidates, but from what I get to choose from on super Tuesday she is ahead of the pack.

I guess my thoughts about it being a detriment are hinged on whether or not the insults and attacks will lead to enough liberal voters not supporting the eventual nominee by not coming out to vote. I can't imagine it would swing many to voting for Trump who wouldn't already be doing it, but I could see the former maybe happening *shrugs*.

I don't think all that many people actually watch them during the primary season so that is my main reason for not thinking it causes people to stay home.

I think the people who do watch them care enough in general that they'll show up and vote for anyone.

Maybe I'm wrong. Is demographic info about who watches them released by Neilsen or something?

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2277 on: February 24, 2020, 06:41:29 AM »
I'd say overall Dem friends and myself thought it was one of the best debates.

If rather stuff come out now than later on.

I thought Bloomberg got destroyed which made me happy.

Iade my first ever campaign donation afterwards (to Warren). She isn't my tip choice of all the original candidates, but from what I get to choose from on super Tuesday she is ahead of the pack.

I guess my thoughts about it being a detriment are hinged on whether or not the insults and attacks will lead to enough liberal voters not supporting the eventual nominee by not coming out to vote. I can't imagine it would swing many to voting for Trump who wouldn't already be doing it, but I could see the former maybe happening *shrugs*.

I don't think all that many people actually watch them during the primary season so that is my main reason for not thinking it causes people to stay home.

I think the people who do watch them care enough in general that they'll show up and vote for anyone.

Maybe I'm wrong. Is demographic info about who watches them released by Neilsen or something?

You make a good point. The only exception seems like it might be Bernie supporters if he doesn't get it, but that's pure speculation. The bigger issue if it even is one might be attack ads using clips from it, especially if Bloomberg gets the nod. Still, probably won't move the needle much.

former player

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2278 on: February 24, 2020, 06:53:35 AM »
I'd say overall Dem friends and myself thought it was one of the best debates.

If rather stuff come out now than later on.

I thought Bloomberg got destroyed which made me happy.

Iade my first ever campaign donation afterwards (to Warren). She isn't my tip choice of all the original candidates, but from what I get to choose from on super Tuesday she is ahead of the pack.

I guess my thoughts about it being a detriment are hinged on whether or not the insults and attacks will lead to enough liberal voters not supporting the eventual nominee by not coming out to vote. I can't imagine it would swing many to voting for Trump who wouldn't already be doing it, but I could see the former maybe happening *shrugs*.

I don't think all that many people actually watch them during the primary season so that is my main reason for not thinking it causes people to stay home.

I think the people who do watch them care enough in general that they'll show up and vote for anyone.

Maybe I'm wrong. Is demographic info about who watches them released by Neilsen or something?

You make a good point. The only exception seems like it might be Bernie supporters if he doesn't get it, but that's pure speculation. The bigger issue if it even is one might be attack ads using clips from it, especially if Bloomberg gets the nod. Still, probably won't move the needle much.
Last time out fewer than 80% of Bernie supporters voted for Hillary and some of them even voted for Trump.  So far nothing Bernie has said would encourage me to think that he would urge his supporters to vote for A N Other Democratic nominee and nothing in the behaviour of those supporters encourages me to think that they would follow that urging.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2279 on: February 24, 2020, 07:12:28 AM »
Last time out fewer than 80% of Bernie supporters voted for Hillary and some of them even voted for Trump.  So far nothing Bernie has said would encourage me to think that he would urge his supporters to vote for A N Other Democratic nominee and nothing in the behaviour of those supporters encourages me to think that they would follow that urging.

Looking at it from the other perspective, if Bernie gets the nomination it will be interesting to see how many supporters from the other camps will sit out the election. For example, Bloomberg has vowed to spend megabucks to beat Trump, but will he still spend that much to put in a president who wants to tax him $4.5 billion a year?

the_fixer

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2280 on: February 24, 2020, 07:18:52 AM »
I'd say overall Dem friends and myself thought it was one of the best debates.

If rather stuff come out now than later on.

I thought Bloomberg got destroyed which made me happy.

Iade my first ever campaign donation afterwards (to Warren). She isn't my tip choice of all the original candidates, but from what I get to choose from on super Tuesday she is ahead of the pack.

I guess my thoughts about it being a detriment are hinged on whether or not the insults and attacks will lead to enough liberal voters not supporting the eventual nominee by not coming out to vote. I can't imagine it would swing many to voting for Trump who wouldn't already be doing it, but I could see the former maybe happening *shrugs*.

I don't think all that many people actually watch them during the primary season so that is my main reason for not thinking it causes people to stay home.

I think the people who do watch them care enough in general that they'll show up and vote for anyone.

Maybe I'm wrong. Is demographic info about who watches them released by Neilsen or something?

You make a good point. The only exception seems like it might be Bernie supporters if he doesn't get it, but that's pure speculation. The bigger issue if it even is one might be attack ads using clips from it, especially if Bloomberg gets the nod. Still, probably won't move the needle much.
Last time out fewer than 80% of Bernie supporters voted for Hillary and some of them even voted for Trump.  So far nothing Bernie has said would encourage me to think that he would urge his supporters to vote for A N Other Democratic nominee and nothing in the behaviour of those supporters encourages me to think that they would follow that urging.

I would have voted for Bernie in the last election but instead my vote went to an independent. I weighed if it would matter and being in Colorado the state was already going to be for Hillary anyway so I saw it as a chance to provide some vote count to an independent and hopefully someday we will have more choices that the 2 parties we are stuck with.

If Bernie is not an option not sure what I would do this time I suppose it depends on who is running and if it will make a difference.


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Poundwise

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2281 on: February 24, 2020, 07:44:45 AM »
Bloomberg has qualified for the debate. Seriously, could there be a less appealing candidate? A billionaire who has bought his way on the Democratic side to be on stage. Not young. Not liberal enough to energize the more liberal base. Billed as a moderate but known mostly for things like gun control that will energize the conservative base against him. Ripe for mockery with things like soda bans. Not to mention all of his stop and frisk stuff. Wow....

I actually agree with you 100% here.  While I tend to be more law-and-order than libertarian, he was my mayor when we lived in NYC and he went too far.  I have read that crime kept dropping after S&F was discontinued, so it really didn't do anything but terrorize the Black American community. I actually know people (middle class noncriminals) who were subjected to it. Bloomberg was dining out on S&F, getting other mayors on board with it, and never really apologized until just before he announced his candidacy. I don't know if I have mentioned how lousy he was on education too.

@Samuel  On the last debate: I saw most of several of the earlier debates, but only clips from the last one.  The earlier debates were much calmer and actually did have policy meat, but for most people they were a snoozefest. They also tended to repeat the same ground after a while so I stopped watching.  This debate was really an outlier.


maizeman

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2282 on: February 24, 2020, 08:39:48 AM »
Last time out fewer than 80% of Bernie supporters voted for Hillary and some of them even voted for Trump.  So far nothing Bernie has said would encourage me to think that he would urge his supporters to vote for A N Other Democratic nominee and nothing in the behaviour of those supporters encourages me to think that they would follow that urging.

The problem with stats like these is that they can be read in two completely opposite ways.

1) Candidate X attracted a lot of voters who weren't otherwise going to vote for the democratic nominee (good).
2) Supporters of candidate X were people who would have normally voted for the democratic nominee, but after their candidate lost the race, they stayed home/voted third party/voted republican out of spite/anger (bad).

I don't know which was the case with 2016 Sanders supporters and which would be the case with Sanders 2020 supporters.

But looking solely at what proportion of supporters voted for the actual nominee or what proportion of supporters say they will vote for the future nominee I don't think we can distinguish between the two cases.

partgypsy

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2283 on: February 24, 2020, 10:27:58 AM »
I am finding the democratic presidential candidate contest a little frustrating. I would rather have a clear leader at this point, and that it be Warren or Klobuchar. Instead everyone is spending a ton of money bloodiying each other.

I did donate 20 to Klobuchar (a coin flip between her and Warren). But what I decided to focus effort/monetary donations is helping turn senate seats blue. Because even if a non-Republican president is elected, with mitch McConnell and the senate as it is currently comprised of, nothing of substance can be done. 

LaineyAZ

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2284 on: February 24, 2020, 04:50:39 PM »
Just a bit of anecdata from my own extended family:  My older sibling lives in an active adult retirement community.  Her neighbors who are Dems are a little freaked out by Bernie.  However my 24 yr old nephew, like many of his pals, is a strong Bernie supporter.

So, as others have said, if Bernie is the nominee will that scare away the formerly reliably senior-age Dems? 
And if so, will the much younger, newer Dem voters show up to vote him in?  The younger generation has the numbers in terms of votes but it's a guess on whether they'll actually make the effort.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2285 on: February 24, 2020, 06:05:25 PM »
Traditionally younger people don't vote at the same rate as older.

I hope if Bernie does win the nomination he can try to moderate his positions and earn the respect of moderates.

It is critical the Democrats win the Senate races in Arizona, Colorado, Maine, I think also North Carolina and Iowa and Georgia.
I don't see how Doug Jones can retain his Senate seat in Alabama against Sessions.

I am worried that Bernie at the top of the ticket might not help centrist Democrats win these purple reddish states.

pecunia

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2286 on: February 24, 2020, 07:31:51 PM »
Well - I had this long conversation with my car.  My car told me that she had concerns about Bernie Sanders shutting down the fossil fuel industry.  She asked, "Where will I go without gasoline?"

PDXTabs

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2287 on: February 24, 2020, 08:26:16 PM »
So, as others have said, if Bernie is the nominee will that scare away the formerly reliably senior-age Dems? 

Did Trump scare away the formerly reliably senior-age Republicans? 

WSJ: Sanders Isnít Trumpís Challenger So Much as His Sequel

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2288 on: February 25, 2020, 06:30:58 AM »
Did anyone see the Anderson Cooper - Bernie interview? I get not having too many details of how to pay and the like to avoid critique but calling tens of trillions of dollars nickel and diming and not being able to come up with a cost of anything beyond universal healthcare is a pretty bad look for any but the most ardent supporters. You're also supporting free universal pre-K, student loan forgiveness, federal jobs act, etc. I get that you've been super consistent in your general overall views - more government is the best thing ever and that you've never been an actual contender, so it hasn't mattered - but you are now, so figure some of this stuff out...

turketron

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2289 on: February 25, 2020, 06:34:22 AM »
Did anyone see the Anderson Cooper - Bernie interview? I get not having too many details of how to pay and the like to avoid critique but calling tens of trillions of dollars nickel and diming and not being able to come up with a cost of anything beyond universal healthcare is a pretty bad look for any but the most ardent supporters. You're also supporting free universal pre-K, student loan forgiveness, federal jobs act, etc. I get that you've been super consistent in your general overall views - more government is the best thing ever and that you've never been an actual contender, so it hasn't mattered - but you are now, so figure some of this stuff out...

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/484454-sanders-releases-list-of-how-to-pay-for-his-proposals

YoungGranny

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2290 on: February 25, 2020, 06:58:58 AM »
Honestly, I like the idea of universal healthcare, the green new deal, universal pre-K etc. However I have a tough time with the total student loan forgiveness when I think I've seen studies that show most college debt is held by higher-than-average income households. I know plenty of friends/family who make just as much as I do but haven't paid off college debt because it's not their priority. Some of these people have just stopped paying on their debt banking on forgiveness which I think is unwise to say the least. I know there ARE low income people affected by college debt but wouldn't it be smarter to do some type of income based repayment that's wide-spread instead of a day one forgiveness for all?

Right on Bernie's website it says "Seventy-three percent of the benefits of cancelling all student debt will go to the bottom 80 percent of Americans, who are making less than $127,000 a year.". C'mon $127k is MORE than I make and PLENTY ENOUGH to pay off your debt. If that number was $50-60k, ie closer to the median income, I think I would be more in favor of it.

In full disclosure, I say this because I'm a little annoyed that if I exercised my frugal muscles to pay off my student loans rapidly after college only to have to pay $0.50 on every $100 I invest in index funds because "wall street is evil and everyone who invests in wall street is wealthy" it just seems unfair. I'm happy to pay my fair share in income taxes (including an increase to cover universal healthcare), happy to change the capital gains tax so it lines up with the income tax rate, and happy to pay a wealth tax if I ever happen to accumulate that much wealth. I just remember the days when I was out of college and could only afford to send $50 to index-funds a month and every penny I paid in fees felt pretty defeating (before I discovered Vanguard and was investing in a fund with front-load fees). I just don't want to penalize savers more than spenders so I like the idea of sales taxes, income taxes etc more than transaction fees.

Just my 2-cents and seemed like a better place to vent about Bernie's tax on wall street "gambling" than any other social media :)

jim555

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2291 on: February 25, 2020, 07:36:35 AM »
Bernie is Jeremy Corbyn the US version.  Promise magic unicorns and rainbows.  Get destroyed in the election.

sherr

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2292 on: February 25, 2020, 08:15:49 AM »

This seems unnecessarily crude, and just unnecessary.

GuitarStv

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2293 on: February 25, 2020, 08:36:36 AM »

This seems unnecessarily crude, and just unnecessary.

Valid point.  My apologies.

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2294 on: February 25, 2020, 08:59:04 AM »
Did anyone see the Anderson Cooper - Bernie interview? I get not having too many details of how to pay and the like to avoid critique but calling tens of trillions of dollars nickel and diming and not being able to come up with a cost of anything beyond universal healthcare is a pretty bad look for any but the most ardent supporters. You're also supporting free universal pre-K, student loan forgiveness, federal jobs act, etc. I get that you've been super consistent in your general overall views - more government is the best thing ever and that you've never been an actual contender, so it hasn't mattered - but you are now, so figure some of this stuff out...

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/484454-sanders-releases-list-of-how-to-pay-for-his-proposals

Good, glad he put it out.

Guizmo

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2295 on: February 25, 2020, 03:31:59 PM »
I'd say overall Dem friends and myself thought it was one of the best debates.

If rather stuff come out now than later on.

I thought Bloomberg got destroyed which made me happy.

Iade my first ever campaign donation afterwards (to Warren). She isn't my tip choice of all the original candidates, but from what I get to choose from on super Tuesday she is ahead of the pack.

I guess my thoughts about it being a detriment are hinged on whether or not the insults and attacks will lead to enough liberal voters not supporting the eventual nominee by not coming out to vote. I can't imagine it would swing many to voting for Trump who wouldn't already be doing it, but I could see the former maybe happening *shrugs*.

I don't think all that many people actually watch them during the primary season so that is my main reason for not thinking it causes people to stay home.

I think the people who do watch them care enough in general that they'll show up and vote for anyone.

Maybe I'm wrong. Is demographic info about who watches them released by Neilsen or something?

You make a good point. The only exception seems like it might be Bernie supporters if he doesn't get it, but that's pure speculation. The bigger issue if it even is one might be attack ads using clips from it, especially if Bloomberg gets the nod. Still, probably won't move the needle much.
Last time out fewer than 80% of Bernie supporters voted for Hillary and some of them even voted for Trump.  So far nothing Bernie has said would encourage me to think that he would urge his supporters to vote for A N Other Democratic nominee and nothing in the behaviour of those supporters encourages me to think that they would follow that urging.

It appears that this isn't something unique to Bernie supporters. This story from NPRhttps://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds shows that 12% of Bernie supporters voted for Trump. But further down, they also mention that 25% of Clinton voters voted for McCain rather than Obama in the 2008 election.

As to whether he would encourage his voters to support another candidate if he were to lose, all you have to do is look at his record during 2016 campaign. He did many campaign events on behalf of Clinton and Clinton even wrote a letter thanking Bernie for his help.

pecunia

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2296 on: February 25, 2020, 05:16:55 PM »
While your working on how to pay for the good stuff, how are we going to pay for the endless wars that support the military industrial complex?  It's real money folks.

FIPurpose

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2297 on: February 26, 2020, 10:28:28 AM »
Well the RCP polls have flipped on this. Bernie now has a +10% lead on national polls. Bernie came away with 66% of Nevada's delegates with only 45% of the vote. I imagine that if he does equally well in California, he's as good as the nominee and will start talking as such after Super Tuesday. I think the electorate are tired of debates and the large number of candidates. We'll start to see the "default" vote start falling more and more to Bernie as we continue on in the next couple weeks.

538 is showing that Sanders will likely win both Mass. and Minn., so I have to wonder if Klobuchar and Warren will actually decide to drop after SC. I can't imagine that they want to lose their home states. The magic number for Sanders on Super Tuesday is 587. He needs to beat that number in order to claim status as the most likely nominee.

Time to start prepping for Trump v Sanders!

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2298 on: February 26, 2020, 10:32:46 AM »
I was thinking about Sanders this morning and listening to CNN commentators about him, and I had some thoughts. Several compared Sanders to Trump and commented about the positive aspects of this - him standing toe to toe with Trump on debate stage, being equally forceful, and all that jazz. There's probably some validity to that, but I think it's exposing some serious flaws with Sanders. Look, it's easy to be the guy who talks really loud or forceful, never backs down, and so on. We all probably know that guy. But do you really like that guy? Being that guy was one of the first things that made me dislike Trump the candidate before his policies really came out. Sanders has been in politics for a long while being the voice that never changes (and often isn't really concerned with the details). Consistency can be good, but he's got away with a lot of crap because he's never been the frontrunner before. Well now, guess what buddy. You're the front runner. You can't say stuff like in interviews like we can't nickel and dime things as a way to put off a legitimate question and actually tell the world in the interview  how many trillions or tens of trillions or dollars your plans will cost.

Then there's the Cuba stuff from Cooper's interview. I'm sure to many liberals it's not a big deal. I was trying to think of an analogy as to why this is beyond just a misused sound bite, and I came up with it this morning. His statements reminds me a lot of Trump's statements in Charlottesville. There's good people on both sides. Well, sure, the neo-nazis protesting probably do some good things. They probably look after their ailing grandmother or donate money to cancer research or whatnot. But when you're the president or reasonably close to being one, you can't say that. And it's more than just it looks bad. Cuba's regime was evil and not just evil but evil in a way that is very applicable to a government - they were authoritarian - the overall most evil goverment type there is. Bernie took some dumb or naive perspectives back in the day. Instead of taking a step back now and saying, look, this government which imprisoned/killed dissidents is bad full stop, he said, oh i condemn the killing but at least they now can read better...amirite? He doubled down. It just screams Trump to me, and again, he no longer has the luxury of being just a voice of his socialist perspectives. He's running for president. Of course, I may be totally wrong. This may be where all US politics is leading and it may not matter. But it should.


FIPurpose

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2299 on: February 26, 2020, 10:43:56 AM »
I was thinking about Sanders this morning and listening to CNN commentators about him, and I had some thoughts. Several compared Sanders to Trump and commented about the positive aspects of this - him standing toe to toe with Trump on debate stage, being equally forceful, and all that jazz. There's probably some validity to that, but I think it's exposing some serious flaws with Sanders. Look, it's easy to be the guy who talks really loud or forceful, never backs down, and so on. We all probably know that guy. But do you really like that guy? Being that guy was one of the first things that made me dislike Trump the candidate before his policies really came out. Sanders has been in politics for a long while being the voice that never changes (and often isn't really concerned with the details). Consistency can be good, but he's got away with a lot of crap because he's never been the frontrunner before. Well now, guess what buddy. You're the front runner. You can't say stuff like in interviews like we can't nickel and dime things as a way to put off a legitimate question and actually tell the world in the interview  how many trillions or tens of trillions or dollars your plans will cost.

Then there's the Cuba stuff from Cooper's interview. I'm sure to many liberals it's not a big deal. I was trying to think of an analogy as to why this is beyond just a misused sound bite, and I came up with it this morning. His statements reminds me a lot of Trump's statements in Charlottesville. There's good people on both sides. Well, sure, the neo-nazis protesting probably do some good things. They probably look after their ailing grandmother or donate money to cancer research or whatnot. But when you're the president or reasonably close to being one, you can't say that. And it's more than just it looks bad. Cuba's regime was evil and not just evil but evil in a way that is very applicable to a government - they were authoritarian - the overall most evil goverment type there is. Bernie took some dumb or naive perspectives back in the day. Instead of taking a step back now and saying, look, this government which imprisoned/killed dissidents is bad full stop, he said, oh i condemn the killing but at least they now can read better...amirite? He doubled down. It just screams Trump to me, and again, he no longer has the luxury of being just a voice of his socialist perspectives. He's running for president. Of course, I may be totally wrong. This may be where all US politics is leading and it may not matter. But it should.

Trump says things: Sanders says things. Therefor they are basically the same.

Great political analysis there.