Author Topic: 2020 POTUS Candidates  (Read 145313 times)

secondcor521

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1150 on: October 23, 2019, 10:32:05 PM »
I think that was somewhere right around the passage of Obamacare?  So he suffered a blip in approval rating for about 9 months for that bill then went back to hovering around 50% by January. Not sure what comparing a single day does though. The important timeframe for this will be how they compare in October 2020.

Interestingly not.  The ACA was signed into law on approximately day 427 of Obama's Presidency.

I agree with you, it will be more important where Trump's approval rating is about a year from now, than where he stands today - which was partly my point.  The other interesting points to me about those graphs are (a) Presidential approval rating varies quite a bit over time, (b) Trump's approval rating really hasn't varied as much as other Presidents historically have, (c) Trump's approval rating has never been as low as 25%, as another poster could have been interpreted as implying, and (d) past Presidents who I recall as being popular (Reagan, Clinton, Obama) were actually less popular than I now think they were then.

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1151 on: October 23, 2019, 10:56:32 PM »
I get the sense that someday soon the Democratic Party will split, probably by the end of the 20s.  I also get the sense that post-Trump, the Republican Party will be permanently weakened.  What I think we will end up with is a new left-wing socialist party a la AOC, a rump social conservative / religious right Republican party, and a centrist Democratic party that will include what is left of the business Republicans.  These three parties would roughly correspond to urban, rural, and suburban voters.

I can see this happening.  I was a Republican for a very long time time, almost 30 years.  I cannot be a part of the Republican party today.  It's disgusting to me.  I also don't feel at home with the Democratic party.  A moderate, working class common sense party of the middle could emerge.

Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1152 on: October 24, 2019, 06:14:58 AM »
I get the sense that someday soon the Democratic Party will split, probably by the end of the 20s.  I also get the sense that post-Trump, the Republican Party will be permanently weakened.  What I think we will end up with is a new left-wing socialist party a la AOC, a rump social conservative / religious right Republican party, and a centrist Democratic party that will include what is left of the business Republicans.  These three parties would roughly correspond to urban, rural, and suburban voters.

I can see this happening.  I was a Republican for a very long time time, almost 30 years.  I cannot be a part of the Republican party today.  It's disgusting to me.  I also don't feel at home with the Democratic party.  A moderate, working class common sense party of the middle could emerge.

Except I think the centrist party, if it is composed of the people OurTown suggests, would likely be a technocrat party that caters to the upper middle class and the wealthy with some semblance of a conscience.

Like it or not, the left is the party that cares most for the working class. Itís just that they do it in a way that a lot of right-leaning working class have been taught is bad and evil cuz socialism.

Nick_Miller

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1153 on: October 24, 2019, 07:24:02 AM »
Looking at the polls this morning, Buttigieg has to feel that he's gained at least some momentum (not sure if it will last or not)

He hit 10% in a national Quinnipiac poll.

An Iowa State Poll has him at 20% in Iowa, in second place 8 points behind Warren.

And looking at trends: In Iowa, for the month of October (4 polls thus far), he's moved ahead of Bernie (RCP Oct. averages of 15.8 for Pete and 15.3 for Bernie) in third place, behind Biden and Warren.

He also registered at 9% in California this morning. There's a long way to go, but hitting the 15% threshold for California and getting some of those delegates is huge for any candidate. Hell, Harris is basically tied with Pete in her home state, so she faces the same issue. Splitting delegates 4 or 5 ways instead of just 3 ways (Biden, Warren, Bernie) would help keep the top couple of candidates from stretching their leads too much.

Still, he has to gain a lot of support, and quickly, in more diverse urban areas. That will likely be his downfall.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 07:29:28 AM by Nick_Miller »

GuitarStv

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1154 on: October 24, 2019, 07:29:33 AM »
I'm pullin' for Buttman.  He seems to be one of the best democratic candidates.

Roadrunner53

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1155 on: October 24, 2019, 08:41:58 AM »
I like Pete! He is a breath of fresh air!

FIPurpose

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1156 on: October 24, 2019, 08:51:57 AM »
Anyway I was thinking that right now since it looks like this is going to a brokered convention, if no one can poll higher that around 30%, then even with let's say 80% of the superdelegates behind one person, they'd only be bumping up around 38%.

I don't know when pledged delegates can break their vote for another candidate, but we'd seriously be looking at a jump ball for this thing. Pray that some of these people start dropping out, namely Kamala and down.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 10:51:28 AM by FIPurpose »

Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1157 on: October 24, 2019, 09:31:47 AM »
What is with the childish plays on his nickname? It's skirting the homophobic. Gross.

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1158 on: October 24, 2019, 09:47:55 AM »
What is with the childish plays on his nickname? It's skirting the homophobic. Gross.
Thought that was just me overreacting after hearing about the guy in Tennessee going on a rant about him yesterday.

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1159 on: October 24, 2019, 09:48:46 AM »
What is with the childish plays on his nickname? It's skirting the homophobic. Gross.

I'm not one to typically even notice things like this (I'm pretty oblivious), but even I cringed a little at it...

GuitarStv

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1160 on: October 24, 2019, 09:54:00 AM »
Butts are objectively funny.

Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1161 on: October 24, 2019, 09:59:37 AM »
Butts are objectively funny.

Context, man. Have some self-awareness.

Nick_Miller

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1162 on: October 24, 2019, 10:01:02 AM »
What is with the childish plays on his nickname? It's skirting the homophobic. Gross.

Yeah.

I mean, I didn't respond initially because yeah, his name is weird, and Pete's campaign, and Pete himself, has been pretty playful and gracious about people mispronouncing his name, even to the extent of selling those BOOT EDGE EDGE t-shirts.

But when it crosses over to someone willfully making fun of his name, especially considering his orientation, it's pretty gross, and usually seems homophobic. I've seen 100s of these instances on Twitter and on comments sections of various pages (like the Hill..oh my God, it's horrible) and 99% of the time it seems to be middle-aged men making 6th grade butt jokes, usually with a homophobic slant (talking about "poles" and "butts," etc)

I'm like "Is this REALLY these dudes' best use of their time?? To make butt/gay jokes online? Seriously???"

No wonder Trump is so popular with the juvenile crowd.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 10:03:04 AM by Nick_Miller »

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1163 on: October 24, 2019, 10:40:20 AM »
tRump vs. Buttjudge ... the 2020 Battle of the Butts!

pecunia

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1164 on: October 24, 2019, 10:44:19 AM »
I haven't laughed so hard since 9th grade.

FIPurpose

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1165 on: October 24, 2019, 10:59:00 AM »
What is with the childish plays on his nickname? It's skirting the homophobic. Gross.

Well uuhh I just think he has a funny name that has no obvious pronunciation. Nothing meant by it. Edited my post to remove it.

I personally forget the man is even homosexual most of the time he comes up in conversation.

v8rx7guy

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1166 on: October 24, 2019, 11:08:39 AM »
What is with the childish plays on his nickname? It's skirting the homophobic. Gross.

Well uuhh I just think he has a funny name that has no obvious pronunciation. Nothing meant by it. Edited my post to remove it.

I personally forget the man is even homosexual most of the time he comes up in conversation.

Childish nicknames allowed for other candidates though!! \sarcasm

Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1167 on: October 24, 2019, 11:32:22 AM »
What is with the childish plays on his nickname? It's skirting the homophobic. Gross.

Well uuhh I just think he has a funny name that has no obvious pronunciation. Nothing meant by it. Edited my post to remove it.

I personally forget the man is even homosexual most of the time he comes up in conversation.

Childish nicknames allowed for other candidates though!! \sarcasm

No, that's childish, too. Just not childish and also homophobic.

ncornilsen

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1168 on: October 24, 2019, 11:35:46 AM »
What is with the childish plays on his nickname? It's skirting the homophobic. Gross.

Well uuhh I just think he has a funny name that has no obvious pronunciation. Nothing meant by it. Edited my post to remove it.

I personally forget the man is even homosexual most of the time he comes up in conversation.

Childish nicknames allowed for other candidates though!! \sarcasm

Double standards abound.

Imagine if trump had committed the same faux pas with a differently abled person as Warren did the other day. Radio silence for warren. If trump had done it, we would never hear the end of it.

FIPurpose

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1169 on: October 24, 2019, 11:44:34 AM »
What is with the childish plays on his nickname? It's skirting the homophobic. Gross.

Well uuhh I just think he has a funny name that has no obvious pronunciation. Nothing meant by it. Edited my post to remove it.

I personally forget the man is even homosexual most of the time he comes up in conversation.

Childish nicknames allowed for other candidates though!! \sarcasm

No, that's childish, too. Just not childish and also homophobic.

Ok now you just jumped from "appearance of" to "definitely". Not appropriate to attach that moniker to other people's motives.

secondcor521

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1170 on: October 24, 2019, 11:46:41 AM »
Anyway I was thinking that right now since it looks like this is going to a brokered convention, if no one can poll higher that around 30%, then even with let's say 80% of the superdelegates behind one person, they'd only be bumping up around 38%.

I don't know when pledged delegates can break their vote for another candidate, but we'd seriously be looking at a jump ball for this thing. Pray that some of these people start dropping out, namely Kamala and down.

Huh.  I was expecting additional candidates to drop out after the first few state primaries/caucuses, and any delegates that candidates who later drop out happened to have won would either be released or handed off to another candidate.  That's what happened - I think - in the similarly crowded Republican primary ahead of the 2016 election.  I don't see anything structural that would lead to a different outcome.  The few pundit comments I've seen seem to think we'll have a presumptive nominee before the convention.

But it would be interesting to see a brokered convention.  We haven't had one of those since...the 1960s?

Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1171 on: October 24, 2019, 11:47:53 AM »
What is with the childish plays on his nickname? It's skirting the homophobic. Gross.

Well uuhh I just think he has a funny name that has no obvious pronunciation. Nothing meant by it. Edited my post to remove it.

I personally forget the man is even homosexual most of the time he comes up in conversation.

Childish nicknames allowed for other candidates though!! \sarcasm

No, that's childish, too. Just not childish and also homophobic.

Ok now you just jumped from "appearance of" to "definitely". Not appropriate to attach that moniker to other people's motives.

I apologize for appearing to attach the motivation of homophobia to the childish nickname you gave to a presidential candidate. 


Nick_Miller

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1172 on: October 24, 2019, 11:52:01 AM »
Well...Tim Ryan has dropped out.

That should shake things up a bit.

FIPurpose

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1173 on: October 24, 2019, 11:56:23 AM »
Anyway I was thinking that right now since it looks like this is going to a brokered convention, if no one can poll higher that around 30%, then even with let's say 80% of the superdelegates behind one person, they'd only be bumping up around 38%.

I don't know when pledged delegates can break their vote for another candidate, but we'd seriously be looking at a jump ball for this thing. Pray that some of these people start dropping out, namely Kamala and down.

Huh.  I was expecting additional candidates to drop out after the first few state primaries/caucuses, and any delegates that candidates who later drop out happened to have won would either be released or handed off to another candidate.  That's what happened - I think - in the similarly crowded Republican primary ahead of the 2016 election.  I don't see anything structural that would lead to a different outcome.  The few pundit comments I've seen seem to think we'll have a presumptive nominee before the convention.

But it would be interesting to see a brokered convention.  We haven't had one of those since...the 1960s?

The major difference between the Dem and GOP primary though is that the the GOP has a large number of winner-take-all delegates for whoever wins a particular state. That's how Trump ended up with 45% of the GOP vote but about 70% of the delegates.

Dems have a few caucus states that determine delegates in a bit different way, but other than that, all delegates are proportional. So the Bernie/Hillary delegate count matched their vote count much closer. (the pledged delegates anyways.)

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1174 on: October 24, 2019, 11:57:59 AM »
Mayor Pete (Candidate Pete?) has just announced 50% of his cabinet and judicial appointments will be women.  It'll be interesting to see whether that has an impact.

secondcor521

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1175 on: October 24, 2019, 12:04:57 PM »
Anyway I was thinking that right now since it looks like this is going to a brokered convention, if no one can poll higher that around 30%, then even with let's say 80% of the superdelegates behind one person, they'd only be bumping up around 38%.

I don't know when pledged delegates can break their vote for another candidate, but we'd seriously be looking at a jump ball for this thing. Pray that some of these people start dropping out, namely Kamala and down.

Huh.  I was expecting additional candidates to drop out after the first few state primaries/caucuses, and any delegates that candidates who later drop out happened to have won would either be released or handed off to another candidate.  That's what happened - I think - in the similarly crowded Republican primary ahead of the 2016 election.  I don't see anything structural that would lead to a different outcome.  The few pundit comments I've seen seem to think we'll have a presumptive nominee before the convention.

But it would be interesting to see a brokered convention.  We haven't had one of those since...the 1960s?

The major difference between the Dem and GOP primary though is that the the GOP has a large number of winner-take-all delegates for whoever wins a particular state. That's how Trump ended up with 45% of the GOP vote but about 70% of the delegates.

Dems have a few caucus states that determine delegates in a bit different way, but other than that, all delegates are proportional. So the Bernie/Hillary delegate count matched their vote count much closer. (the pledged delegates anyways.)

Right.  Even with the sorta-proportional rules for the Democratic primary (isn't it true that most states you have to hit the 15% minimum?  I thought that was the case but haven't looked closely), it sure seems that the 1%-2% polling candidates (Tim who?) will drop out as they run out of money.  Later, it sure seems like whomever is in a solid fourth or fifth place might earn some delegates before they will be urged to drop out and throw their support behind another one of the candidates in the name of party unity and beating Trump.  I seem to remember that being the conversation around candidates like Cruz and Sanders in the 2016 primaries.

I'm not sure how many candidates would say, "Nah, I'll take my 20% of delegates and my case to the convention in hopes of being a consensus or everyone's-second-choice candidate rather than fold my hand and accept a Cabinet level position or VP nod by whomever wins this thing."  And I'm not sure if Harris at this point can win enough delegates to keep the leader in a plurality-not-majority situation to make it even a possibility.

FIPurpose

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1176 on: October 24, 2019, 12:11:43 PM »
Anyway I was thinking that right now since it looks like this is going to a brokered convention, if no one can poll higher that around 30%, then even with let's say 80% of the superdelegates behind one person, they'd only be bumping up around 38%.

I don't know when pledged delegates can break their vote for another candidate, but we'd seriously be looking at a jump ball for this thing. Pray that some of these people start dropping out, namely Kamala and down.

Huh.  I was expecting additional candidates to drop out after the first few state primaries/caucuses, and any delegates that candidates who later drop out happened to have won would either be released or handed off to another candidate.  That's what happened - I think - in the similarly crowded Republican primary ahead of the 2016 election.  I don't see anything structural that would lead to a different outcome.  The few pundit comments I've seen seem to think we'll have a presumptive nominee before the convention.

But it would be interesting to see a brokered convention.  We haven't had one of those since...the 1960s?

The major difference between the Dem and GOP primary though is that the the GOP has a large number of winner-take-all delegates for whoever wins a particular state. That's how Trump ended up with 45% of the GOP vote but about 70% of the delegates.

Dems have a few caucus states that determine delegates in a bit different way, but other than that, all delegates are proportional. So the Bernie/Hillary delegate count matched their vote count much closer. (the pledged delegates anyways.)

Right.  Even with the sorta-proportional rules for the Democratic primary (isn't it true that most states you have to hit the 15% minimum?  I thought that was the case but haven't looked closely), it sure seems that the 1%-2% polling candidates (Tim who?) will drop out as they run out of money.  Later, it sure seems like whomever is in a solid fourth or fifth place might earn some delegates before they will be urged to drop out and throw their support behind another one of the candidates in the name of party unity and beating Trump.  I seem to remember that being the conversation around candidates like Cruz and Sanders in the 2016 primaries.

I'm not sure how many candidates would say, "Nah, I'll take my 20% of delegates and my case to the convention in hopes of being a consensus or everyone's-second-choice candidate rather than fold my hand and accept a Cabinet level position or VP nod by whomever wins this thing."  And I'm not sure if Harris at this point can win enough delegates to keep the leader in a plurality-not-majority situation to make it even a possibility.

There is a 15% rule, but that 15% is true for both state-wide delegates and district-wide delegates. So someone like Kamala may only get 9% state wide, but will likely be over 15% in some districts. This would lock her out of the state-wide delegates, but she wouldn't be left with 0 either. The same is true for Bernie. Even if he gets 15% state-wide, but misses 15% in some districts, he'll get some state-wide delegates but not the district delegates where he came in under 15%.

So there is a general cliff at 15%, but it's not all or nothing. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out come February.

GuitarStv

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1177 on: October 24, 2019, 12:12:24 PM »
What is with the childish plays on his nickname? It's skirting the homophobic. Gross.

Well uuhh I just think he has a funny name that has no obvious pronunciation. Nothing meant by it. Edited my post to remove it.

I personally forget the man is even homosexual most of the time he comes up in conversation.

Childish nicknames allowed for other candidates though!! \sarcasm

No, that's childish, too. Just not childish and also homophobic.

Ok now you just jumped from "appearance of" to "definitely". Not appropriate to attach that moniker to other people's motives.

I apologize for appearing to attach the motivation of homophobia to the childish nickname you gave to a presidential candidate. 

Honestly, I hadn't considered that Pete was gay when I posted my comment.  I like Buttgieg and hope that he wins the presidency.  I just think that he has a funny name . . . and was picturing Val Kilmer in my head saying "I'm buttman!" so it seemed like solid gold humour at the time.  Like with Anthony Weiner's name (well, it was funny until he started sending pictures of his wiener to everyone - but I digress).

My intent wasn't to be homophobic, but in retrospect I can see how it would come off that way.  Although initially from my perspective you seemed to be tilting at windmills, I see where my mistake lay now, and appreciate you pointing it out for me.  I'll try to think before making butt jokes from now on.  No promises on that front though.  :P

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1178 on: October 24, 2019, 12:26:31 PM »
Tulsi Gabbard fans, maybe read this and reconsider:


https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/tulsi-gabbard-hillary-clinton-2020-democratic-primary

What is Tulsi up to? What a weird title for an article.

She is up to running in the Democratic primary for president.

A better question is, what is Hillary up to? She's not even in the race and throwing darts at someone she doesn't like.

It seems weird that the Democratic party structure cannot debate a pro-peace, anti-war position with logic and facts instead of accusing someone serving in the miliitary and congress with being a "Russian asset". This McCarthyism must end for the good of our country.

Tulsi's response to Hillary was strong and on-point.

Tulsi and Jill Stein should sue Hillary for slander.

Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1179 on: October 24, 2019, 12:34:56 PM »
Tulsi Gabbard fans, maybe read this and reconsider:


https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/tulsi-gabbard-hillary-clinton-2020-democratic-primary

What is Tulsi up to? What a weird title for an article.

She is up to running in the Democratic primary for president.

A better question is, what is Hillary up to? She's not even in the race and throwing darts at someone she doesn't like.

It seems weird that the Democratic party structure cannot debate a pro-peace, anti-war position with logic and facts instead of accusing someone serving in the miliitary and congress with being a "Russian asset". This McCarthyism must end for the good of our country.

Tulsi's response to Hillary was strong and on-point.

Tulsi and Jill Stein should sue Hillary for slander.

Well, Hillary was right about Trump...

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1180 on: October 24, 2019, 12:50:02 PM »
Tulsi Gabbard fans, maybe read this and reconsider:


https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/tulsi-gabbard-hillary-clinton-2020-democratic-primary

What is Tulsi up to? What a weird title for an article.

She is up to running in the Democratic primary for president.

A better question is, what is Hillary up to? She's not even in the race and throwing darts at someone she doesn't like.

It seems weird that the Democratic party structure cannot debate a pro-peace, anti-war position with logic and facts instead of accusing someone serving in the miliitary and congress with being a "Russian asset". This McCarthyism must end for the good of our country.

Tulsi's response to Hillary was strong and on-point.

Tulsi and Jill Stein should sue Hillary for slander.

Well, Hillary was right about Trump...

I am not debating Trump and have no interest to.

Hillary made allegations with no basis. She should be sued for slander.

Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1181 on: October 24, 2019, 01:18:58 PM »
Tulsi Gabbard fans, maybe read this and reconsider:


https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/tulsi-gabbard-hillary-clinton-2020-democratic-primary

What is Tulsi up to? What a weird title for an article.

She is up to running in the Democratic primary for president.

A better question is, what is Hillary up to? She's not even in the race and throwing darts at someone she doesn't like.

It seems weird that the Democratic party structure cannot debate a pro-peace, anti-war position with logic and facts instead of accusing someone serving in the miliitary and congress with being a "Russian asset". This McCarthyism must end for the good of our country.

Tulsi's response to Hillary was strong and on-point.

Tulsi and Jill Stein should sue Hillary for slander.

Well, Hillary was right about Trump...

I am not debating Trump and have no interest to.

Hillary made allegations with no basis. She should be sued for slander.

Hillary didn't say Tulsi was a Russian asset.

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1182 on: October 24, 2019, 01:19:26 PM »
Castro said he'll drop out if he doesn't raise $800k by the end of the month.

Where's the libel/slander in what Clinton said? She said "asset" right, not "agent"? I'm not saying that you need to agree, but I think reasonable people can believe that Stein was an asset to Trump and all of those who stood to gain from his win, and Gabbard seems to be going out of her way to make as many enemies in the Democratic party as she can, and should she choose to run an independent campaign and/or take shots at the eventual Democratic nominee, you could make a similar case. Or you can disagree, but we all disagree about the worth of many things. Now if she had called them agents (and technically I think Clinton said that Gabbard is being groomed by Republicans, not Russians, certainly anyone can see that conservative media is providing some support)

I'd be curious what would happen if someone like Gore, Kerry, or maybe a ten-year-younger Carter threw their hat(s) into the ring, that'd make for some fun speculation.

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1183 on: October 24, 2019, 01:23:00 PM »
Hillary didn't say Tulsi was a Russian asset.

I know the NYT had to issue a correction, but near as I can tell from reported transcripts of the podcast, Clinton called Stein a Russian asset, said that Republicans are grooming Gabbard, and also said that Gabbard is a favorite of the Russians. I'd say that its pretty much the same thing, at least in the context.

Daisy

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1184 on: October 24, 2019, 01:23:31 PM »
Tulsi Gabbard fans, maybe read this and reconsider:


https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/tulsi-gabbard-hillary-clinton-2020-democratic-primary

What is Tulsi up to? What a weird title for an article.

She is up to running in the Democratic primary for president.

A better question is, what is Hillary up to? She's not even in the race and throwing darts at someone she doesn't like.

It seems weird that the Democratic party structure cannot debate a pro-peace, anti-war position with logic and facts instead of accusing someone serving in the miliitary and congress with being a "Russian asset". This McCarthyism must end for the good of our country.

Tulsi's response to Hillary was strong and on-point.

Tulsi and Jill Stein should sue Hillary for slander.

Well, Hillary was right about Trump...

I am not debating Trump and have no interest to.

Hillary made allegations with no basis. She should be sued for slander.

Hillary didn't say Tulsi was a Russian asset.

You might be right.

Jill Stein is a Russian asset.

Tulsi is being groomed by the Russians.

Semantics.

Daisy

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1185 on: October 24, 2019, 01:25:03 PM »
Hillary didn't say Tulsi was a Russian asset.

I know the NYT had to issue a correction, but near as I can tell from reported transcripts of the podcast, Clinton called Stein a Russian asset, said that Republicans are grooming Gabbard, and also said that Gabbard is a favorite of the Russians. I'd say that its pretty much the same thing, at least in the context.

I heard the actual audio of Hillary's commentary. Didn't you? She said Tulsi was being groomed by Russians.

The NYT secretly edited their original article and said "groomed by Republicans", but Hillary's exact words were "groomed by Russians".

Daisy

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1186 on: October 24, 2019, 01:31:38 PM »
So what IS Hillary up to?

If she enters the race it would be an affront to anyone else that is in the race and gone through the motions and all of the debates. If she does enter, she better do it before the next debate, or else she will be accused of running without wanting to debate anyone else. If I were any of the other candidates, I would be pissed.

partgypsy

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1187 on: October 24, 2019, 01:49:24 PM »
I would be very surprised if Clinton enters the race.

bacchi

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1188 on: October 24, 2019, 02:03:53 PM »
I would be very surprised if Clinton enters the race.

At this point, she doesn't have a chance.

Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1189 on: October 24, 2019, 02:09:01 PM »
Tulsi Gabbard fans, maybe read this and reconsider:


https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/tulsi-gabbard-hillary-clinton-2020-democratic-primary

What is Tulsi up to? What a weird title for an article.

She is up to running in the Democratic primary for president.

A better question is, what is Hillary up to? She's not even in the race and throwing darts at someone she doesn't like.

It seems weird that the Democratic party structure cannot debate a pro-peace, anti-war position with logic and facts instead of accusing someone serving in the miliitary and congress with being a "Russian asset". This McCarthyism must end for the good of our country.

Tulsi's response to Hillary was strong and on-point.

Tulsi and Jill Stein should sue Hillary for slander.

Well, Hillary was right about Trump...

I am not debating Trump and have no interest to.

Hillary made allegations with no basis. She should be sued for slander.

Hillary didn't say Tulsi was a Russian asset.

You might be right.

Jill Stein is a Russian asset.

Tulsi is being groomed by the Russians.

Semantics.

No. She said Tulsi is being groomed by the Republicans.

She said Tulsi is a favorite of the Russians.

I think that's a fairly important difference.

Daisy

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1190 on: October 24, 2019, 02:11:43 PM »
There's no point in debating someone who hasn't actually heard the audio.

OurTown

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1191 on: October 24, 2019, 02:23:18 PM »
I don't care a thing about Tulsi.  I only care about whether it is Warren or Biden and then whether the winner can beat Caligula in the general election.

Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1192 on: October 24, 2019, 04:10:02 PM »
There's no point in debating someone who hasn't actually heard the audio.

Perhaps not.

I have, however.

Daisy

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1193 on: October 24, 2019, 04:21:08 PM »
There's no point in debating someone who hasn't actually heard the audio.

Perhaps not.

I have, however.

I guess we heard two different things then. Fair enough.

If Hillary does enter the race the Dems will lose a lot of Independents like myself who would never vote for her. I hope the current candidates stay in the race and the person that ends up winning has a decent foreign policy.

Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1194 on: October 24, 2019, 04:49:50 PM »
Hillary wonít enter the race. I canít see wasting even a momentís worth of energy on that thought. And hell, even if she did, no way would she be nominated. Itís too late for her.

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1195 on: October 24, 2019, 08:12:31 PM »
I think Trudeau's actions were overtly racist.  I think the argument that he didn't know doing this was racist is bullshit.

Honestly, I hadn't considered that Pete was gay when I posted my comment.  I like Buttgieg and hope that he wins the presidency.  I just think that he has a funny name . . . and was picturing Val Kilmer in my head saying "I'm buttman!" so it seemed like solid gold humour at the time.  Like with Anthony Weiner's name (well, it was funny until he started sending pictures of his wiener to everyone - but I digress).

My intent wasn't to be homophobic, but in retrospect I can see how it would come off that way.  Although initially from my perspective you seemed to be tilting at windmills, I see where my mistake lay now, and appreciate you pointing it out for me.  I'll try to think before making butt jokes from now on.  No promises on that front though.  :P

Quote from: JustinTrudeau
I take responsibility for my decision to do that... it was something that I didnít think was racist at the time but now I recognise it was something racist to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDX7yVmQam8

GuitarStv

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1196 on: October 24, 2019, 08:20:50 PM »
Given the long history of homophobic people practicing buttface, I can totally see your point.

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1197 on: October 24, 2019, 08:23:11 PM »
Given the long history of homophobic people practicing buttface, I can totally see your point.
Given the long history of homophobes making butt jokes directed at gay men, I see yours.

GuitarStv

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1198 on: October 24, 2019, 08:28:09 PM »
What exactly do you want from me?

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1199 on: October 24, 2019, 08:55:41 PM »
What exactly do you want from me?
Obliquely, I'm supporting you (as I did Trudeau) because of course it's silly to read the worst possible intentions into every statement. I don't want to live in a world where people are reduced to the dumbest thing they ever posted on social media.

And sorry--I'm using you a little as an example to make a broader point about how it is impossible calculate every possible interpretation that might be read into a statement or gesture; e.g. Karl Popper's "It is impossible to speak in such a way that you cannot be misunderstood". Anyone at any time can fail to foresee how something can be insulting in a certain context. If we really cared about each other's feelings, we would never say anything!

Finally, this topic is probably a fetish of mine since I'm nearly a free-speech absolutist and also believe that the line is being moved in the wrong direction with respect to social acceptance of certain forms of "risky" speech (e.g. various strains of satire and artistic expression). Let's spend our time worrying about actual racism or actual homophobia, and not on cosplay or little jokes made on a message board.