Poll

Out of current presidential candidates, who is most likely to get your vote?

Jeb Bush
6 (1.7%)
Ben Carson
8 (2.2%)
Chris Christie
8 (2.2%)
Hillary Clinton
77 (21.6%)
Ted Cruz
5 (1.4%)
Lindsey Graham
0 (0%)
Martin O'Malley
2 (0.6%)
Rand Paul
40 (11.2%)
Marco Rubio
8 (2.2%)
Bernie Sanders
144 (40.4%)
Donald Trump
34 (9.6%)
Scott Walker
7 (2%)
Other (Please Explain in Comments)
17 (4.8%)

Total Members Voted: 348

Author Topic: 2016 Presidential Candidate  (Read 310775 times)

sol

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1000 on: September 12, 2015, 04:05:59 PM »
The fact that there was an unencrypted server used to transmit classified materials is an absolute nightmare from a cybersecurity standpoint.

Fact?  What fact?  What evidence have you seen that this actually happened?

Stop believing the Trump talking points.  Just because he says Clinton transmitted classified materials with an insecure server doesn't make it true.

Classified materials exist in classified secure locations, on a classified network.  They cannot leave those locations.  There are no thumb drives, no notepads, no CD drives with which to remove classified materials from secure locations.  If Clinton transmitted any classified information from her home server, it was information she had in her head.  Disclosing classified information you have in your head to a non-cleared person is a crime, but it has nothing to do with her server use.  Disclosing classified information you have in your head to a cleared person, outside of a secure facility, is not a crime though it is discouraged.  It's also super common in the White House, as virtually everyone there has security clearance and they have to talk to each other to do their jobs, and the entire building is not a secure facility.

This whole issue is poorly understood by the public, which hurts her political career, but is good for national security.  They don't really want the general public to know how these rules work, or why, or how they are regulated and enforced.  But rest assured there are whole departments of people who specialize in this stuff, who perform the clearances and the reviews, who maintain and track the secure networks, who are constantly searching for signs that classified information has shown up out in the wider world. 

If there were really a problem with Clinton, she would be dead already.  At this point the "scandal" is just political theater, the new Whitewater, an attempt to make political hay out of perceived problems where none exist.

forummm

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1001 on: September 12, 2015, 05:03:46 PM »
The unemployment rate in Ohio before John Kasich took office was 9.3% and it's currently 5.2%.
Nationally it was 9.2% the day he took office and 5.1% today.
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
If you merely google "Ohio unemployment rate", you'll get a graph that shows Ohio having about 1% higher unemployment rate than the United States as a whole before Kasich was Governor, whereas now Ohio has a better unemployment rate than the United States as a whole.
You just quoted yourself providing numbers that are literally within one tenth of one percent of the total US number for which I provided a reference. The BLS is the official entity that calculates the US and state unemployment rates. They are the same. Maybe you are mistaking Michigan for Ohio on that Google graph. Kasich took office January 2011.

But like I said it doesn't matter because a governor has essentially no effect on employment rates in that short a term.

forummm

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1002 on: September 12, 2015, 05:06:24 PM »
The fact that there was an unencrypted server used to transmit classified materials is an absolute nightmare from a cybersecurity standpoint.
Nothing was classified at the time. If something is later classified (as 2 documents were), that's not the fault of the individual who did whatever with that info at the time there was no restriction against it. Taking criminal action against something for doing something that was not a criminal offense at the time ex post facto and is literally prohibited by the Constitution.

Welshrabbit

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1003 on: September 12, 2015, 05:16:08 PM »
The fact that there was an unencrypted server used to transmit classified materials is an absolute nightmare from a cybersecurity standpoint.

Fact?  What fact?  What evidence have you seen that this actually happened?

Stop believing the Trump talking points.  Just because he says Clinton transmitted classified materials with an insecure server doesn't make it true.

Classified materials exist in classified secure locations, on a classified network.  They cannot leave those locations.  There are no thumb drives, no notepads, no CD drives with which to remove classified materials from secure locations.  If Clinton transmitted any classified information from her home server, it was information she had in her head.  Disclosing classified information you have in your head to a non-cleared person is a crime, but it has nothing to do with her server use.  Disclosing classified information you have in your head to a cleared person, outside of a secure facility, is not a crime though it is discouraged.  It's also super common in the White House, as virtually everyone there has security clearance and they have to talk to each other to do their jobs, and the entire building is not a secure facility.

This whole issue is poorly understood by the public, which hurts her political career, but is good for national security.  They don't really want the general public to know how these rules work, or why, or how they are regulated and enforced.  But rest assured there are whole departments of people who specialize in this stuff, who perform the clearances and the reviews, who maintain and track the secure networks, who are constantly searching for signs that classified information has shown up out in the wider world. 

If there were really a problem with Clinton, she would be dead already.  At this point the "scandal" is just political theater, the new Whitewater, an attempt to make political hay out of perceived problems where none exist.

Out of curiosity, what type of clearance do you hold, sir or ma'am?

Malaysia41

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1004 on: September 12, 2015, 05:35:32 PM »
Regarding Jeb!:

He was on Colbert.  Goodness did he bungle this question:

Colbert asked him how he differed from his brother, George.  Jeb! could have picked so many things such as, oh, I don't know, choosing Dick Cheney as VP, a policy of pre-emptive strikes, working with the UN rather than invading Iraq, hiring Rumsfeld as defense secretary, playing on fear to push through legislation that allowed the government to spy on EVERYONE, Guantanamo Bay, justifying the use of torture, killing people with drones, etc.

Instead, he said his brother let too many spendy bills go through in his last year.  Jeb would have vetoed them.   REALLY?  Out of all of the awful, horrible things your brother did as president, that's what you disagreed with?

Oof. 

edit: of course he couldn't possibly say 'killing people with drones'. 58% of Americans think killing people without due process, and with high casualty rates is justified.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 05:39:25 PM by Malaysia41 »

Jeremy E.

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1005 on: September 12, 2015, 05:39:18 PM »
Regarding Jeb!:

He was on Colbert.  Goodness did he bungle this question:

Colbert asked him how he differed from his brother, George.  Jeb! could have picked so many things such as, oh, I don't know, choosing Dick Cheney as VP, a policy of pre-emptive strikes, working with the UN rather than invading Iraq, hiring Rumsfeld as defense secretary, playing on fear to push through legislation that allowed the government to spy on EVERYONE, Guantanamo Bay, justifying the use of torture, killing people with drones, etc.

Instead, he said his brother let too many spendy bills go through in his last year.  Jeb would have vetoed them.   REALLY?  Out of all of the awful, horrible things your brother did as president, that's what you disagreed with?

Oof.
Maybe he doesn't like to talk bad about his family

Malaysia41

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1006 on: September 12, 2015, 05:43:14 PM »
Regarding Jeb!:

He was on Colbert.  Goodness did he bungle this question:

Colbert asked him how he differed from his brother, George.  Jeb! could have picked so many things such as, oh, I don't know, choosing Dick Cheney as VP, a policy of pre-emptive strikes, working with the UN rather than invading Iraq, hiring Rumsfeld as defense secretary, playing on fear to push through legislation that allowed the government to spy on EVERYONE, Guantanamo Bay, justifying the use of torture, killing people with drones, etc.

Instead, he said his brother let too many spendy bills go through in his last year.  Jeb would have vetoed them.   REALLY?  Out of all of the awful, horrible things your brother did as president, that's what you disagreed with?

Oof.
Maybe he doesn't like to talk bad about his family
Yeah, as he thought about his answer, I had the feeling he was thinking what could he chose that didn't alienate his family or his base.  Sure, who wants to throw their sibling under the bus in public.  But among all of those items, surely he could pick one.  Hell, he could have said he'd have responded to Hurricane Katrina faster. 

forummm

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1007 on: September 12, 2015, 05:50:26 PM »
Regarding Jeb!:

He was on Colbert.  Goodness did he bungle this question:

Colbert asked him how he differed from his brother, George.  Jeb! could have picked so many things such as, oh, I don't know, choosing Dick Cheney as VP, a policy of pre-emptive strikes, working with the UN rather than invading Iraq, hiring Rumsfeld as defense secretary, playing on fear to push through legislation that allowed the government to spy on EVERYONE, Guantanamo Bay, justifying the use of torture, killing people with drones, etc.

Instead, he said his brother let too many spendy bills go through in his last year.  Jeb would have vetoed them.   REALLY?  Out of all of the awful, horrible things your brother did as president, that's what you disagreed with?

Oof.
Maybe he doesn't like to talk bad about his family
Yeah, as he thought about his answer, I had the feeling he was thinking what could he chose that didn't alienate his family or his base.  Sure, who wants to throw their sibling under the bus in public.  But among all of those items, surely he could pick one.  Hell, he could have said he'd have responded to Hurricane Katrina faster. 

Jeb! has to know that he's going to be asked about what he would have done differently from his brother. He's been asked that question dozens of times already. And he has to have better answers than spendy bills. But I fear the real reason is that he generally agrees with a lot of what W did. Jeb! has hired a bunch of W's advisors, including foreign policy and national security ones. I don't think there's a lot of difference between them. He initially said Iraq was a good idea and he would do it again. Then after all the backlash he said he misheard the question (even though it was very clear that he hadn't).

MDM

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1008 on: September 12, 2015, 05:57:46 PM »
of course he couldn't possibly say 'killing people with drones'.
Maybe he's saving that answer for the "how he differs from Obama" question?  See https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2014/01/23/more-than-2400-dead-as-obamas-drone-campaign-marks-five-years/.
Yes, Bush started it but he was a minor league player compared with Obama in this game.

Jeremy E.

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1009 on: September 12, 2015, 06:06:28 PM »
The unemployment rate in Ohio before John Kasich took office was 9.3% and it's currently 5.2%.
Nationally it was 9.2% the day he took office and 5.1% today.
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
If you merely google "Ohio unemployment rate", you'll get a graph that shows Ohio having about 1% higher unemployment rate than the United States as a whole before Kasich was Governor, whereas now Ohio has a better unemployment rate than the United States as a whole.
You just quoted yourself providing numbers that are literally within one tenth of one percent of the total US number for which I provided a reference. The BLS is the official entity that calculates the US and state unemployment rates. They are the same. Maybe you are mistaking Michigan for Ohio on that Google graph. Kasich took office January 2011.

But like I said it doesn't matter because a governor has essentially no effect on employment rates in that short a term.
Okay I guess he only did .2% better than the United States as far as unemployment goes so far. But he still reduced taxes more than any other state, while simultaneously balancing the budget and bringing in a surplus, still very impressive. Governors play a huge roll in their states, Kasich championed many policies making Ohio more business friendly. Most governors have line item veto power, and suggest budgets to their legislature, as well as having to approve any changes. They also have massive influence over their legislatures and often have proposals introduced on their behalf.

Malaysia41

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1010 on: September 12, 2015, 06:08:59 PM »
of course he couldn't possibly say 'killing people with drones'.
Maybe he's saving that answer for the "how he differs from Obama" question?  See https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2014/01/23/more-than-2400-dead-as-obamas-drone-campaign-marks-five-years/.
Yes, Bush started it but he was a minor league player compared with Obama in this game.

Yes, I'm painfully aware.  It's my main complaint about President Obama. I think this is a terribly misguided policy.

Malaysia41

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1011 on: September 12, 2015, 06:25:57 PM »
So, Bob W posted a link to the Scott Adams blog.  It's SO GOOD.  Here's a recent post:

Who's Smarter - the Smart People or the Dumb People.

tl;dr of the article: Mr. Adams creates cognitive dissonance by saying smart people think they can see through political bullshit and do proper research to figure out who to vote for, but then he asks: who is smarter? People who pick their own stocks or people who invest in index funds?  So which smart person are you?  Because thinking you can thoughtfully pick a candidate is like thinking you can pick a stock.  Which one is it?  Funny.

Love this section:

Quote
The popular media is staffed mostly by writers and art majors and other people who tend to believe in magic. It is no surprise that they don’t see how absurd it is to expect citizens to have useful opinions based on the misinformation that that same media provides around the clock.

He's onto it.  I'm a dummy too: I don't want to have to be an expert in every facet of policy making.  I want to elect someone who will suitably represent my interests and sensibilities.  But how do I possibly choose that person with all the watered down reporting and outright misleading reporting?

So, what's the index ETF in the political realm? We have to pick a stock and bet the whole portfolio on it. Scary. Thank goodness our president exists in a system of checks and balances - not optimal checks and balances - but at least somewhat.  Hey that's it!  - the three branch system *is* our political ETF.

Welshrabbit

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1012 on: September 12, 2015, 07:04:04 PM »
The fact that there was an unencrypted server used to transmit classified materials is an absolute nightmare from a cybersecurity standpoint.
Nothing was classified at the time. If something is later classified (as 2 documents were), that's not the fault of the individual who did whatever with that info at the time there was no restriction against it. Taking criminal action against something for doing something that was not a criminal offense at the time ex post facto and is literally prohibited by the Constitution.

You are absolutely right, I'm not suggesting any criminal action be taken based on the retroactive classification of the documents. If you re-read my post, I said she is at best incompetant and at worst a felon. A woman who has been in the upper echelons of American politics for longer than I've been alive should have known that the SOS was likely to receive correspondence that was classified even if it were not marked so at the time. If (and this is a pretty big if), that is the extent of the matter (i.e. the FBI doesn't find evidence of further criminal wrongdoing), she is unfit to be the leader of the free world based on making such a horrible decision.

Cressida

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1013 on: September 12, 2015, 07:10:36 PM »
of course he couldn't possibly say 'killing people with drones'.
Maybe he's saving that answer for the "how he differs from Obama" question?  See https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2014/01/23/more-than-2400-dead-as-obamas-drone-campaign-marks-five-years/.
Yes, Bush started it but he was a minor league player compared with Obama in this game.
Yes, I'm painfully aware.  It's my main complaint about President Obama. I think this is a terribly misguided policy.

+1. It's baffling and disappointing.

sol

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1014 on: September 12, 2015, 07:12:27 PM »
Out of curiosity, what type of clearance do you hold, sir or ma'am?

The type I wouldn't talk about or admit to, if I had one.

forummm

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1015 on: September 12, 2015, 07:27:39 PM »
The unemployment rate in Ohio before John Kasich took office was 9.3% and it's currently 5.2%.
Nationally it was 9.2% the day he took office and 5.1% today.
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
If you merely google "Ohio unemployment rate", you'll get a graph that shows Ohio having about 1% higher unemployment rate than the United States as a whole before Kasich was Governor, whereas now Ohio has a better unemployment rate than the United States as a whole.
You just quoted yourself providing numbers that are literally within one tenth of one percent of the total US number for which I provided a reference. The BLS is the official entity that calculates the US and state unemployment rates. They are the same. Maybe you are mistaking Michigan for Ohio on that Google graph. Kasich took office January 2011.

But like I said it doesn't matter because a governor has essentially no effect on employment rates in that short a term.
Okay I guess he only did .2% better than the United States as far as unemployment goes so far.
No, Ohio lagged 0.1% at the beginning and today. I'm trying not to be harsh, but It feels like you don't pay attention to things--even in the same post or in the text you typed the your own prior post or in the results for your own searches. Maybe you should be more careful about drawing so many conclusions based on evidence that isn't actually there. Maybe your prior biases color what you think you are seeing.

Welshrabbit

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1016 on: September 12, 2015, 07:28:07 PM »
Out of curiosity, what type of clearance do you hold, sir or ma'am?

The type I wouldn't talk about or admit to, if I had one.

Which means you don't have one and have no clue what you are talking about, although I'm impressed that you seem to know what a SCIF is.  The answer to your inevitable question is TS/SCI, go ahead and GOOGLE it. I really don't care about admitting it. The Chinese know literally everything about me due to the OPM hack anyway.

So...I'll just leave these little beauties here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/clinton-wrote-classified-e-mails-sent-using-private-server/2015/09/01/5d456616-50bd-11e5-8c19-0b6825aa4a3a_story.html

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/08/us/politics/second-review-says-classified-information-was-in-hillary-clintons-email.html?referrer=

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/03/politics/hillary-clinton-email-controversy-explained-2016/

Hate to use ultra-right wing websites like WaPo, NYT, and CNN to prove my point, but it was the best I could do on short notice.

You are welcome to come back and apologize for your strange and condescending rant above at any time.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 07:31:51 PM by Welshrabbit »

forummm

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1017 on: September 12, 2015, 07:32:12 PM »
of course he couldn't possibly say 'killing people with drones'.
Maybe he's saving that answer for the "how he differs from Obama" question?  See https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2014/01/23/more-than-2400-dead-as-obamas-drone-campaign-marks-five-years/.
Yes, Bush started it but he was a minor league player compared with Obama in this game.
Yes, I'm painfully aware.  It's my main complaint about President Obama. I think this is a terribly misguided policy.

+1. It's baffling and disappointing.
It's crazy. Republicans make up a bunch of fake things to be outraged about. But here's this perfect issue that's actually outside the law (I think) and they could totally make a big deal out of. But they don't. It's so silly. Obama and his people get to decide who to murder and no one even necessarily knows about it even after the fact. But I guess the Republicans agree with the practice, otherwise why would they keep mum about it while making up other nonsense to fight over.

Cathy

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1018 on: September 12, 2015, 07:39:36 PM »
... But I guess the Republicans agree with the practice, otherwise why would they keep mum about it while making up other nonsense to fight over.

At least one candidate has proposed an expansion in the extrajudicial drone killing program to include people whose only crime is "thinking" about certain proscribed things.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/05/18/wonkbook-lindsey-grahams-comments-on-drones-were-very-blunt/

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1019 on: September 12, 2015, 07:41:24 PM »
Out of curiosity, what type of clearance do you hold, sir or ma'am?

The type I wouldn't talk about or admit to, if I had one.

Which means you don't have one and have no clue what you are talking about, although I'm impressed that you seem to know what a SCIF is.

You are welcome to come back and apologize for your strange and condescending rant above at any time.

I'd wager Sol has a Q clearance, and if you don't know what that is, you owe him an apology.

Welshrabbit

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1020 on: September 12, 2015, 07:59:00 PM »
Out of curiosity, what type of clearance do you hold, sir or ma'am?

The type I wouldn't talk about or admit to, if I had one.

Which means you don't have one and have no clue what you are talking about, although I'm impressed that you seem to know what a SCIF is.

You are welcome to come back and apologize for your strange and condescending rant above at any time.

I'd wager Sol has a Q clearance, and if you don't know what that is, you owe him an apology.

Meh. I make no apologies to the DOE!!!!

Jeremy E.

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1021 on: September 12, 2015, 08:33:28 PM »
The unemployment rate in Ohio before John Kasich took office was 9.3% and it's currently 5.2%.
Nationally it was 9.2% the day he took office and 5.1% today.
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
If you merely google "Ohio unemployment rate", you'll get a graph that shows Ohio having about 1% higher unemployment rate than the United States as a whole before Kasich was Governor, whereas now Ohio has a better unemployment rate than the United States as a whole.
You just quoted yourself providing numbers that are literally within one tenth of one percent of the total US number for which I provided a reference. The BLS is the official entity that calculates the US and state unemployment rates. They are the same. Maybe you are mistaking Michigan for Ohio on that Google graph. Kasich took office January 2011.

But like I said it doesn't matter because a governor has essentially no effect on employment rates in that short a term.
Okay I guess he only did .2% better than the United States as far as unemployment goes so far.
No, Ohio lagged 0.1% at the beginning and today. I'm trying not to be harsh, but It feels like you don't pay attention to things--even in the same post or in the text you typed the your own prior post or in the results for your own searches. Maybe you should be more careful about drawing so many conclusions based on evidence that isn't actually there. Maybe your prior biases color what you think you are seeing.
Ohio was even with the United States at 9.2% in January of 2011. What I'm looking at (googled ohio unemployment rate and used the graph google produced) has April 2015 as the most recent unemployment rates and it shows Ohio at 5.2% and United States at 5.4%, hence Ohio has done .2% better than the United States since Kasich took office.

sol

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1022 on: September 12, 2015, 08:47:57 PM »
I'd wager Sol has a Q clearance, and if you don't know what that is, you owe him an apology.

Isn't it best to just not talk about it?  There are lots of people here with various kinds of security clearances, and I've always been vaguely uncomfortable with the way people seem so cavalier about these discussions.

For the record, I didn't know what a Q clearance was until I googled it.  Not my thing.

Malaysia41

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1023 on: September 12, 2015, 08:50:35 PM »
of course he couldn't possibly say 'killing people with drones'.
Maybe he's saving that answer for the "how he differs from Obama" question?  See https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2014/01/23/more-than-2400-dead-as-obamas-drone-campaign-marks-five-years/.
Yes, Bush started it but he was a minor league player compared with Obama in this game.
Yes, I'm painfully aware.  It's my main complaint about President Obama. I think this is a terribly misguided policy.

+1. It's baffling and disappointing.
It's crazy. Republicans make up a bunch of fake things to be outraged about. But here's this perfect issue that's actually outside the law (I think) and they could totally make a big deal out of. But they don't. It's so silly. Obama and his people get to decide who to murder and no one even necessarily knows about it even after the fact. But I guess the Republicans agree with the practice, otherwise why would they keep mum about it while making up other nonsense to fight over.

As a registered Republican, I object wholeheartedly and vocally to the drone program.  I feel like a lone voice. 

Welshrabbit

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1024 on: September 12, 2015, 09:01:13 PM »
I'd wager Sol has a Q clearance, and if you don't know what that is, you owe him an apology.

Isn't it best to just not talk about it?  There are lots of people here with various kinds of security clearances, and I've always been vaguely uncomfortable with the way people seem so cavalier about these discussions.

For the record, I didn't know what a Q clearance was until I googled it.  Not my thing.

Until the OPM hack, I would have agreed with you. It doesn't matter now, but I suppose you know that. That being said, what is your clearance level my friend?

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1025 on: September 12, 2015, 09:03:20 PM »
I just got home from hearing Rand Paul speak tonight in St. Louis. He didn't make a political speech, he spoke about his family, growing up in the Paul family. His parents stressed education and three of their children are physicians. It was a nice, relaxed speech and the purpose of it was to give background on his mother who won the annual homemaker's award from this organization, the Eagle Forum.

Eagle Forum is way too religious for me, but I'm glad they brought in so many Republican candidates, Today Ted Cruz and Rick Santorum spoke, yesterday it was Perry, Ben Carson, and Huckabee.

This MMM group would like to know that Rand cuts his own hair, much to the dismay of his wife and staff. That explains why his hair always looks a little wonky to me.


« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 09:09:34 PM by iris lily »

brooklynguy

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1026 on: September 12, 2015, 09:05:41 PM »
That being said, what is your clearance level my friend?

Are you going to ask how long his penis is next?

Jeremy E.

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1027 on: September 12, 2015, 09:07:30 PM »
I just got home from hearing Rand Paul speak tonight in St. Louis. He didn't make a political speech, he spoke about his family, growing up in the Paul family. His parents stressed education and three of their children are physicians. It was a nice, relaxed speech and the purpose of it was to give background on his mother who won the annual homemaker's award from this organization, the Eagle Forum.

Eagle Forum is way too religious for me, but I'm glad they brought in so many Republican candidates, Today Ted Cruz and Rick Santorum spoke, yesterday it was Perry, Ben Carson, and Huckabee.

This MMM group would like to know that Rand cuts his own hair, much to the dismay of his wife and staff. That explains why his hair always looks a little wonkey to me.
I have my girlfriend cut my own hair, and I think 99% of the population shouldn't pay for their haircuts, I think Rand is in the 1% that should.

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1028 on: September 12, 2015, 09:13:58 PM »
That being said, what is your clearance level my friend?

Are you going to ask how long his penis is next?
A: possibly
B: Why do you seem so bothered by the question? He claims to know more about the IC than I do even though I work in the IC (GOOGLE it). Wouldn't you try to defend your life's work against someone if they were grossly misinformed?
« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 09:27:05 PM by Welshrabbit »

sol

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1029 on: September 12, 2015, 10:08:01 PM »
That being said, what is your clearance level my friend?

Check your PMs.

Are you going to ask how long his penis is next?

No, he's not.

He claims to know more about the IC than I do even though I work in the IC (GOOGLE it).

Where did I ever make any such claim?

I claimed that your assertion that Hillary Clinton committed a crime by sending classified information from an insecure server was unsubstantiated. 

Don't take everything so personally.  If you would like to discuss my actual claim, by presenting evidence and then discussing it, I would welcome the exchange.  What I do not welcome is aggressive personal attacks unrelated to the substance of our discussion.

Here, I'll start.  If Hillary Clinton was being accused of a crime,  I suspect she would be arrested and charged with a crime.  Since that has not happened, I suspect she has not been accused of a crime.  At least not by anyone with any authority.  You and I can accuse her all we like.

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1030 on: September 12, 2015, 10:59:36 PM »
That being said, what is your clearance level my friend?

Are you going to ask how long his penis is next?

Anyone who says what their security clearance is on an internet forum doesn't have much of a clearance. We don't what Sol's is (or isn't) and it just doesn't matter. Let's get back to slinging opinions and mud about those crazy enough to want to be president.

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1031 on: September 13, 2015, 05:45:59 AM »
I'd wager Sol has a Q clearance, and if you don't know what that is, you owe him an apology.

Isn't it best to just not talk about it?  There are lots of people here with various kinds of security clearances, and I've always been vaguely uncomfortable with the way people seem so cavalier about these discussions.


I'm not shy about talking about my level of clearance, but not the details of my work at that time.  I'm over a decade removed from that kind of work, so at least some of it is no longer actually a secret.  Still, anyone's clearance isn't really a point worth mentioning most of the time, because anyone with any direct details to discuss a topic, can't discuss the topic.  That should be a duh.

Welshrabbit

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1032 on: September 13, 2015, 06:39:04 AM »
That being said, what is your clearance level my friend?

Are you going to ask how long his penis is next?

Anyone who says what their security clearance is on an internet forum doesn't have much of a clearance. We don't what Sol's is (or isn't) and it just doesn't matter. Let's get back to slinging opinions and mud about those crazy enough to want to be president.
Mmmkay....again, before the OPM hack I would have agreed. Now it's a moot point as the Chinese government knows all. I guess mine isn't much however.

Welshrabbit

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1033 on: September 13, 2015, 06:45:57 AM »
That being said, what is your clearance level my friend?

Check your PMs.

Are you going to ask how long his penis is next?

No, he's not.

He claims to know more about the IC than I do even though I work in the IC (GOOGLE it).

Re-read my post Sol, I said at best she was incompetent, at worst a felon. I never said she has been accused of a crime. Please respond to your assertion that there was no classified info sent on the server, in direct rebuttal to the articles I posted.

You never directly claimed to know more than I do but your condescending tone and by statinting that I was listening to Trump talking points upset me. I will try to be more diplomatic in the future, will you do the same?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2015, 07:06:53 AM by Welshrabbit »

Welshrabbit

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1034 on: September 13, 2015, 06:50:14 AM »
I'd wager Sol has a Q clearance, and if you don't know what that is, you owe him an apology.

Isn't it best to just not talk about it?  There are lots of people here with various kinds of security clearances, and I've always been vaguely uncomfortable with the way people seem so cavalier about these discussions.


I'm not shy about talking about my level of clearance, but not the details of my work at that time.  I'm over a decade removed from that kind of work, so at least some of it is no longer actually a secret.  Still, anyone's clearance isn't really a point worth mentioning most of the time, because anyone with any direct details to discuss a topic, can't discuss the topic.  That should be a duh.

I disagree, if someone is claiming to know more about a subject, i.e. classified materials than someone else and they have no clearance, it is very relevant to the subject. Again, the rules prohibit the release of classified info, not the fact that an individual holds a specific clearance.

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1035 on: September 13, 2015, 06:54:29 AM »
The unemployment rate in Ohio before John Kasich took office was 9.3% and it's currently 5.2%.
Nationally it was 9.2% the day he took office and 5.1% today.
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
If you merely google "Ohio unemployment rate", you'll get a graph that shows Ohio having about 1% higher unemployment rate than the United States as a whole before Kasich was Governor, whereas now Ohio has a better unemployment rate than the United States as a whole.
You just quoted yourself providing numbers that are literally within one tenth of one percent of the total US number for which I provided a reference. The BLS is the official entity that calculates the US and state unemployment rates. They are the same. Maybe you are mistaking Michigan for Ohio on that Google graph. Kasich took office January 2011.

But like I said it doesn't matter because a governor has essentially no effect on employment rates in that short a term.
Okay I guess he only did .2% better than the United States as far as unemployment goes so far.
No, Ohio lagged 0.1% at the beginning and today. I'm trying not to be harsh, but It feels like you don't pay attention to things--even in the same post or in the text you typed the your own prior post or in the results for your own searches. Maybe you should be more careful about drawing so many conclusions based on evidence that isn't actually there. Maybe your prior biases color what you think you are seeing.
Ohio was even with the United States at 9.2% in January of 2011. What I'm looking at (googled ohio unemployment rate and used the graph google produced) has April 2015 as the most recent unemployment rates and it shows Ohio at 5.2% and United States at 5.4%, hence Ohio has done .2% better than the United States since Kasich took office.
I'm dropping this. I went with the numbers you provided, but you keep providing different numbers at different times and not explaining sufficiently at the time what you're talking about. And even if it were 0.2% different than the nation, it would have essentially nothing to do with the governor, and may not even be a real difference (perhaps within the margin of error). It would have to do with the particular mix of employers in OH vs the rest of the country and how those industries have improved versus the rest of the US during that arbitrary timeline. The governor has essentially no impact on that in so short a duration.

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1036 on: September 13, 2015, 09:23:59 AM »
That being said, what is your clearance level my friend?

Are you going to ask how long his penis is next?

I had to get secret level clearance to work on american F-18s for a job a few years back, and it just required a police check and a few questions.  Totally not a big deal.

Welshrabbit

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1037 on: September 13, 2015, 09:43:03 AM »
That being said, what is your clearance level my friend?

Are you going to ask how long his penis is next?

I had to get secret level clearance to work on american F-18s for a job a few years back, and it just required a police check and a few questions.  Totally not a big deal.

You're right, it is not a big deal at all. That's why I'm a bit shocked that everyone seems up in arms about me asking.

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1038 on: September 14, 2015, 01:45:18 AM »
The fact that there was an unencrypted server used to transmit classified materials is an absolute nightmare from a cybersecurity standpoint.

Fact?  What fact?  What evidence have you seen that this actually happened?

Stop believing the Trump talking points.  Just because he says Clinton transmitted classified materials with an insecure server doesn't make it true.

Classified materials exist in classified secure locations, on a classified network.  They cannot leave those locations.  There are no thumb drives, no notepads, no CD drives with which to remove classified materials from secure locations.  If Clinton transmitted any classified information from her home server, it was information she had in her head.  Disclosing classified information you have in your head to a non-cleared person is a crime, but it has nothing to do with her server use.  Disclosing classified information you have in your head to a cleared person, outside of a secure facility, is not a crime though it is discouraged.  It's also super common in the White House, as virtually everyone there has security clearance and they have to talk to each other to do their jobs, and the entire building is not a secure facility.

This whole issue is poorly understood by the public, which hurts her political career, but is good for national security.  They don't really want the general public to know how these rules work, or why, or how they are regulated and enforced.  But rest assured there are whole departments of people who specialize in this stuff, who perform the clearances and the reviews, who maintain and track the secure networks, who are constantly searching for signs that classified information has shown up out in the wider world. 

If there were really a problem with Clinton, she would be dead already.  At this point the "scandal" is just political theater, the new Whitewater, an attempt to make political hay out of perceived problems where none exist.

At the risk of resurrecting the issue that was actually at hand, and (hopefully) discontinuing the dance that was being performed atop it:

I'm going to start off by saying I don't think there's any question at this point that there was in fact classified information. Statements from the State Department and Intelligence Community inspector generals, and corroborated by the CIA and NSA, on July 24, attest to that fact. But that's probably not what gets to most people; at least it shouldn't be. It may still be arguable, and probably is still believable (I'm not that up-to-date on the question) that Clinton did nothing illegal. I think it is highly probable that she didn't intend to.

For all the TS/SCI or whatever else people around here, they probably don't appreciate that they're not allowed to leave their work out on a desk unlocked next to their colleagues while they run to the restroom; that they could get prosecuted for getting the wrong documents mixed in with material that they carry in their briefcase; or that they are treated with extreme scrutiny because it's our policy to treat everyone with identical scrutiny; but that, nonetheless, Clinton is apparently immune from the fallout of her actions.

But what frustrates me is how shady it all seems, and how unfazed she is by the whole thing. I think this is one of the biggest occurrences I've ever seen where a story becomes a story because a person refuses to acknowledge it. She screwed up big time providing a poorly-secured avenue for State Department communications into her personal server, but she refuses to acknowledge any wrongdoing. Where I'm from we call her course of action "sea lawyering." Meaning, she has staked her entire claim on a lack of illegality, rather than on whether or not she acted correctly. The investigative bodies appointed to raise the question of criminal wrongdoing will see to any illegality. Meanwhile I, as a voter, would rather see her take responsibility for her actions, explain and show some understanding of how she could and should have done much better, and be forthcoming in trying to clean up the mess. If she doesn't feel any responsibility to be forthcoming to the American public, then I would like to help her find a job that will match that expectation; US president isn't that job.

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1039 on: September 14, 2015, 05:49:10 AM »
That being said, what is your clearance level my friend?

Are you going to ask how long his penis is next?
A: possibly
B: Why do you seem so bothered by the question? He claims to know more about the IC than I do even though I work in the IC (GOOGLE it). Wouldn't you try to defend your life's work against someone if they were grossly misinformed?

Given that my (bad) joke could not have fallen any flatter, allow me to explain:  my point was not that your question was prying into private matters (though that's also true), but that its only purpose was to initiate an ego-driven contest to find out whose clearance is bigger.

captain and mrs slow

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1040 on: September 16, 2015, 04:38:44 AM »
Noticed that the issue of Income Inequality came and went, but I don't feel like starting a new thread to I add this back in.

2 thoughts

One is I've noticed that people confuse personal responsibility with public policy. For example if I over spend eventually I will go bankrupt but governments can over spend and if managed properly never go bankrupt. The US has a 17 trillion dollar debt but it will never go bankrupt!


Inspite of what everyone says here Inequality is the greatest threat that America faces, far outpacing anything from the middle east or Mexico. Even Billionaires are starting to grow concerned. As Paul Tudor Jones said in a recent TED talk, inequality will be solved by one of three ways

Taxes War or Revolution.

I'm betting on the first as even Jeb Bush is proposing a trillion dollar tax increase (you have to hunt for it as he's done a great job of burying it)

From Fortune

Can a (billionaire) hedge fund manager fix income inequality?

edited
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 06:56:10 AM by Captain and Mrs Slow »

captain and mrs slow

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1041 on: September 16, 2015, 04:48:33 AM »
an interesting comment I found

Taxes are the default solution to corporate profiteering for a reason: it's involuntary, and it pulls money down to those unaffiliated with the business owner, and not through lateral channels, like charities associated with the business owner, etc. Also, given enough time, all business owners fall into the "I'm due what I've made" mental trap, and eventually feel their class is appropriate.


Paul Jones here is a good example. He lives a billionaire lifestyle, but barks at the class divide. He could live a life of a man who earns 5 figures, not 10, but he doesn't. Ultimately he feels he's due what he's made, and clearly even he, who understands corporations (or the wealthy in general) need further social incentivizing, hasn't done much to close his own wealth gap footprint.

I mean he's talking of funding Just Capital, but the figures mentioned needed to run the firm only accounts for 0.001% of his personal value. How austere is that?

I know FORTUNE isn't the right audience, but taxes are important because they're involuntary. No incentive needed. You'll never convince the Walton family there's more money to be made in being socially responsible than to exploit the way they've been doing. Everyone, if given enough time, feels they've "worked hard" for what they earn.

Social securities of countries have been funded by taxes, not charities, for a reason: when given the option, most opt out of giving to charity, including champagne socialists like Paul Jones here.

captain and mrs slow

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1042 on: September 16, 2015, 06:54:20 AM »
after posting everything I did I came across this post from Ace of Spades, 100%  tea bagger but hot damm one of the smartest bloggers I know!


Wall Streeters Beginning to Panic That Trump Could Win


Bob W

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1043 on: September 16, 2015, 08:43:16 AM »
Should be a heck of a debate tonight ---    It seems to be broadcasting rather early.  Did I read right that it is 8 pm eastern.  That would mean the west coast will see it at 5 pm.   I guess no one really cares about the west coast in the Republican party any way. 

The format is set to be an open debate style (they say Lincoln Douglas style but I doubt it) that should lead to some interesting exchanges.   Rand Paul will probably embarrass himself.   Huckabee will invoke God at least 3 times.  Bush will attempt to be high energy against Trump but it will be phony and not well received. 

My prediction --  CF will pick up a large bump,  BC will add several points,  Trump will settle in and lose several points.  JK may pick up a few.  The rest not much and will divide up the remaining 30% of support.

This is setting us up for a battle of the outsiders for the next month.  Trump has already become more measured in his presentation now that he has jumped the first hurdle.   CF has nothing to lose by coming out strong and bashing the shit out of Trump while he smiles and takes it like a man.  He may mention his hair at that point.   

The media will fawn over CF and give her lots of digital ink. 

I predict 18 million viewers.   

The Iowa Caucus is still 4.5 months away on February 1.   It is the strangest system imagined with none of the delegates beholden to actually cast their votes for the chosen local candidate.    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_caucuses






Jeremy E.

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1044 on: September 16, 2015, 10:49:04 AM »
Should be a heck of a debate tonight ---    It seems to be broadcasting rather early.  Did I read right that it is 8 pm eastern.  That would mean the west coast will see it at 5 pm.   I guess no one really cares about the west coast in the Republican party any way. 

The format is set to be an open debate style (they say Lincoln Douglas style but I doubt it) that should lead to some interesting exchanges.   Rand Paul will probably embarrass himself.   Huckabee will invoke God at least 3 times.  Bush will attempt to be high energy against Trump but it will be phony and not well received. 

My prediction --  CF will pick up a large bump,  BC will add several points,  Trump will settle in and lose several points.  JK may pick up a few.  The rest not much and will divide up the remaining 30% of support.

This is setting us up for a battle of the outsiders for the next month.  Trump has already become more measured in his presentation now that he has jumped the first hurdle.   CF has nothing to lose by coming out strong and bashing the shit out of Trump while he smiles and takes it like a man.  He may mention his hair at that point.   

The media will fawn over CF and give her lots of digital ink. 

I predict 18 million viewers.   

The Iowa Caucus is still 4.5 months away on February 1.   It is the strangest system imagined with none of the delegates beholden to actually cast their votes for the chosen local candidate.    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_caucuses
I don't think Fiorina gains anything, the only thing she has going for her is that she was CEO of HP, but she did a piss poor job. For some reason a lot of people like Ben Carson, so maybe he'll gain some space. I actually talked to someone that told me about how great Ben Carson was and that he wanted to implement a "flat tax". When I told him most all republicans are wanting to do that same "flat tax" he said Ben Carson was the one that came up with it... So for some reason he's well liked. However I think Kasich will make headway, Jeb! will stagnate and not move, Rubio will probably do good in the debate but just stagnate as well. I'd hope Rand Paul would do okay, but he'll probably do poorly this debate and then pull out. Trump will keep changing the topic to the few things he's learned about from his advisors and say stuff to rile the crowd that isn't relevant, making him just lose a few points.

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1045 on: September 16, 2015, 11:04:05 AM »
For some reason a lot of people like Ben Carson, so maybe he'll gain some space. I actually talked to someone that told me about how great Ben Carson was and that he wanted to implement a "flat tax". When I told him most all republicans are wanting to do that same "flat tax" he said Ben Carson was the one that came up with it... So for some reason he's well liked.

He's well liked because he seems like a nice guy and he isn't part of the party establishment. His platform is just the boilerplate conservative agenda, so there's nothing there for Republicans to find fault with. He doesn't have a political record that can be attacked. Heck, look at his campaign slogan: Heal + Inspire + Revive. Could you imagine anything more tailor-made to appeal to the religious right?

Bob W

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1046 on: September 16, 2015, 12:07:22 PM »
For some reason a lot of people like Ben Carson, so maybe he'll gain some space. I actually talked to someone that told me about how great Ben Carson was and that he wanted to implement a "flat tax". When I told him most all republicans are wanting to do that same "flat tax" he said Ben Carson was the one that came up with it... So for some reason he's well liked.

He's well liked because he seems like a nice guy and he isn't part of the party establishment. His platform is just the boilerplate conservative agenda, so there's nothing there for Republicans to find fault with. He doesn't have a political record that can be attacked. Heck, look at his campaign slogan: Heal + Inspire + Revive. Could you imagine anything more tailor-made to appeal to the religious right?

Yeah,  BC is a freak.  He is definitely appealing to the uninformed folks.  Probably a lot of white guilt going on there. 

 Jeremy E.  You are completely wrong about CF.   She will be in the public eye for the first time.   CNN gave her a special pass to get into the debate because they are hoping for sparks to fly between her and Trump.   Anticipate at least a 5% bump for her throughout the month.   My guess is Trump wants her to pick up numbers badly.   He would much rather run against her and BC in the primaries than an actual well funded politician.  As her and BCs numbers rise Jeb and the rest of the corporate owned dips should go down.  Trump would like nothing better than JB to be at 4% come Iowa,  even if Trump himself is polling third.   

It is much easier to cage two iguanas than to slay a dragon.  Trump has played the big field game for 11 seasons now.  He knows that it is the last man standing that wins and that it is best to kill the real completion early on.   Besides,  it will look very good for the Pub party to have a woman and a black man at the top of the heap.   That big tent diversity will rub off on Trump. 

Trump will not bash BC and CF tonight or for several months as every percent they take they take from Jeb. In fact,  my guess is he will focus his bashes on Democrats for some time. 

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1047 on: September 16, 2015, 12:34:53 PM »
For some reason a lot of people like Ben Carson, so maybe he'll gain some space. I actually talked to someone that told me about how great Ben Carson was and that he wanted to implement a "flat tax". When I told him most all republicans are wanting to do that same "flat tax" he said Ben Carson was the one that came up with it... So for some reason he's well liked.

He's well liked because he seems like a nice guy and he isn't part of the party establishment. His platform is just the boilerplate conservative agenda, so there's nothing there for Republicans to find fault with. He doesn't have a political record that can be attacked. Heck, look at his campaign slogan: Heal + Inspire + Revive. Could you imagine anything more tailor-made to appeal to the religious right?

Yeah,  BC is a freak.  He is definitely appealing to the uninformed folks.  Probably a lot of white guilt going on there. 

 Jeremy E.  You are completely wrong about CF.   She will be in the public eye for the first time.   CNN gave her a special pass to get into the debate because they are hoping for sparks to fly between her and Trump.   Anticipate at least a 5% bump for her throughout the month.   My guess is Trump wants her to pick up numbers badly.   He would much rather run against her and BC in the primaries than an actual well funded politician.  As her and BCs numbers rise Jeb and the rest of the corporate owned dips should go down.  Trump would like nothing better than JB to be at 4% come Iowa,  even if Trump himself is polling third.   

It is much easier to cage two iguanas than to slay a dragon.  Trump has played the big field game for 11 seasons now.  He knows that it is the last man standing that wins and that it is best to kill the real completion early on.   Besides,  it will look very good for the Pub party to have a woman and a black man at the top of the heap.   That big tent diversity will rub off on Trump. 

Trump will not bash BC and CF tonight or for several months as every percent they take they take from Jeb. In fact,  my guess is he will focus his bashes on Democrats for some time.
I wouldn't be surprised if Trump compared his company successes to Fiorinas CEO Failures.

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1048 on: September 16, 2015, 01:08:59 PM »
For some reason a lot of people like Ben Carson, so maybe he'll gain some space. I actually talked to someone that told me about how great Ben Carson was and that he wanted to implement a "flat tax". When I told him most all republicans are wanting to do that same "flat tax" he said Ben Carson was the one that came up with it... So for some reason he's well liked.

He's well liked because he seems like a nice guy and he isn't part of the party establishment. His platform is just the boilerplate conservative agenda, so there's nothing there for Republicans to find fault with. He doesn't have a political record that can be attacked. Heck, look at his campaign slogan: Heal + Inspire + Revive. Could you imagine anything more tailor-made to appeal to the religious right?

Yeah,  BC is a freak.  He is definitely appealing to the uninformed folks.  Probably a lot of white guilt going on there. 

 Jeremy E.  You are completely wrong about CF.   She will be in the public eye for the first time.   CNN gave her a special pass to get into the debate because they are hoping for sparks to fly between her and Trump.   Anticipate at least a 5% bump for her throughout the month.   My guess is Trump wants her to pick up numbers badly.   He would much rather run against her and BC in the primaries than an actual well funded politician.  As her and BCs numbers rise Jeb and the rest of the corporate owned dips should go down.  Trump would like nothing better than JB to be at 4% come Iowa,  even if Trump himself is polling third.   

It is much easier to cage two iguanas than to slay a dragon.  Trump has played the big field game for 11 seasons now.  He knows that it is the last man standing that wins and that it is best to kill the real completion early on.   Besides,  it will look very good for the Pub party to have a woman and a black man at the top of the heap.   That big tent diversity will rub off on Trump. 

Trump will not bash BC and CF tonight or for several months as every percent they take they take from Jeb. In fact,  my guess is he will focus his bashes on Democrats for some time.

It's interesting.  In theory, I could agree with you, but as smart as Trump might be in some ways (and I think I'm giving him maybe more credit than he deserves, but maybe not), I actually don't see him as being so calculating.  I could definitely see his handlers thinking this strategically, but I  more see Trump as being so cocksure of himself in all things that he'll just be winging it and reacting rather than moving forward with any chess-like moves in mind.  In any case, I think it should be clear after tonight's debate which of us was right. 

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Re: 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #1049 on: September 16, 2015, 03:00:40 PM »
Anyone know of a way to watch the debate tonight without access to CNN?

EDIT: Google to the rescue....

http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/16/media/cnn-debate-live-streaming/
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 09:01:10 AM by d4v3d »