"That's retarded" revisited

[A mom]

I'm starting a new thread because I missed the original debate, and I'm afraid not many people would read through the whole original thread to get to my question, which is this: When I started working in the schools around 2000, I never heard "That's so retarded!" thrown around.  What I heard instead was, "That's so gay!" Now I think we all can agree that there is nothing wrong in itself with the word gay, but here it was being used to describe anything the speaker didn't like whether it was the color of a pencil, the school lunch, or a homework assignment. The speaker was taking an entire group of people and making them synonymous with anything they didn't like. Was that OK?  How do you think it felt to be a gay teen in that environment?

Several years later, things are exactly the same except the group of people being equated with something undesirable has changed. Things are retarded when the speaker doesn't like them.  For example, lawns are "retarded."  Is this OK?

What we say impacts how we think about things and people. That's why I believe this is an important issue. Of course I am not advocating censorship. I am advocating that people think before they speak, and consider the consequences of their words on others. Even if no "retarded" person hears you use the word, your language can shape the attitudes of others towards them. Also, "retarded" people do not come with a label. They do not all have Down Syndrome. That man standing quietly behind you in the checkout line at the grocery store might just be "retarded."

[ep114]

Thanks for your post. Very thoughtful. I agree, this is not a word that I want to use or hear as a synonym for whatever negative traits the speaker has in mind. Sometimes we get wrapped up in esoteric discussions, and forget to think about what would be taking the high road.  But I rarely here it used anymore. I was surprised to read some posters in the last discussion thought it was in common use. I wonder if this is regional, or maybe generational.  I remember it being in use in this way when I was in school in the 70s or 80s, along with "gay". But honestly, I can't imagine someone using this conversationally now and not really standing out.   Do you mind if I ask what part of the country you live in?
 
Perhaps it is still around. A few years ago I was working on a special project with people from all over the country, many of them in their early 20s, and one of the follow-ons to the standard climate survey was that some were dismayed to hear that word used in the workplace. The director was more than dismayed, and he called a meeting for all employees and explained that his sister was mentally retarded (I'm using this in the clinical way!the wording is being phased out, but was certainly used widely in years past) and how hurtful it was for him and his family to hear it used the way you described.  I think he got his point across that it was unprofessional and would not be tolerated in the workplace. Hopefully some carried that over into outside of work lives.

And regarding who might overhear you. Good point. Also, you might be overheard by someone who is related to, or otherwise knows and really likes someone with that diagnosis.   And those people are actually pretty lucky, because I haven;t known one person with that diagnosis who wasn't  exceedingly kind and likable.   

[grantmeaname]

I am not advocating censorship. I am advocating that people think before they speak, and consider the consequences of their words on others.

I don't think that anyone could find something to disagree with in these two sentences.

[mpbaker22]

These were pretty retarded actions of the 1st and 2nd posters to start a thread since there's already been at least two thread hijackings and one solely dedicated thread to this topic.

[grantmeaname]

How did the second poster start the thread?

[dragoncar]

Too good not to share

[pzxc]

When I was a kid, "That's retarded" was the common colloquialism.

When I was a teen / young adult, "That's gay" ended up replacing it.  (I'm gay, and I've always thought this was terrible, but the set of people who say it and the set of people who care that it might be offensive do not seem to intersect)

Interesting that it is reverting to a previously trendy idiom.  I wonder if people are gonna start saying again, "That's phat!" or "That's wicked!" or "That's sick!" (meaning good)

When I was a *little* kid, before the "retarded", there was "That's so lame!"

No one, besides me, has ever mentioned that it might be offensive to those who cannot walk.  /shrug

Jargon, and language in general, is like a force of nature. It changes over time and there's very little anyone can do about it. The kids who use it the most, are going to be MORE inclined to use it, if adults deem it questionable.  Like any fad you don't like, it might be best to just wait -- the lingo will change with the seasons just like fashion.

You have to pick your battles in life. There are a lot of injustices in the world that are much more worthy of fighting against than what minority group teenagers are denigrating this year.

[surfhb]

I agree.....pick your battles.   

Surely you don't think the term "mentally challenged" is better?    What's the current PC term?

[marty998]

I agree.....pick your battles.   

Surely you don't think the term "mentally challenged" is better?    What's the current PC term?

The kid is a "special" boy/girl.

Watch out though, many kids will know you're talking about their disability if you refer to them as special.... be delicate and discerning.

[surfhb]

I'd be just as offended if someone referred to my child as Special as much as I would as Retard.  *shrugs*

[midweststache]

I agree.....pick your battles.   

Surely you don't think the term "mentally challenged" is better?    What's the current PC term?

The kid is a "special" boy/girl.

Watch out though, many kids will know you're talking about their disability if you refer to them as special.... be delicate and discerning.

"Child/kid/boy/girl with a learning disability." That way the grammar of the sentence is prefacing that the subject is, first and foremost, a child, and that child happens to have a learning disability (a modifier subordinate to the noun "child/kid/boy/girl"). Certainly I see how this could become convoluted ("the woman who is tall and has feet that are big" or "the man who is black/white/Latino"), but I think it's important for children who are building their identity not to have their identity as a person preceded by an aspect of their personhood.

RE OP: I'm wondering what instigated this thread: Are you noticing a trend on the forums and in others' writing? Or is this kind of like a PSA prompted by a personal experience?

[Eric]

RE OP: I'm wondering what instigated this thread: Are you noticing a trend on the forums and in others' writing? Or is this kind of like a PSA prompted by a personal experience?

It's from 18 months ago, so I'm guessing there was some other thread about the use of "retarded" around that time.


@dragoncar -- Wow.  Just wow.

[dragoncar]

RE OP: I'm wondering what instigated this thread: Are you noticing a trend on the forums and in others' writing? Or is this kind of like a PSA prompted by a personal experience?

It's from 18 months ago, so I'm guessing there was some other thread about the use of "retarded" around that time.


@dragoncar -- Wow.  Just wow.

Original thread http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/that%27s-retarded/

Came out of a bunch of off topic arguments
There's probably not anything new to be said on the topic besides hilarious misunderstanding.

Sometimes I forget we have brand new babies here

[RetiredAt63]

Re adjectives and order - Santana's Black Magic Woman.  Is she a black woman practicing magic?  Or a woman (no colour identified) who practices black magic? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Reyes01]

I believe "developmentally delayed" is the preferred term.

[Bob W]

I think that Intellectually Disabled is the new term for MR.   I like the term ghetto that kids use -- as in "that's so ghetto!"

[MoneyCat]

Basically, this is a product with the public's obsession with perfection.  Any possible flaw a person can have must be mocked and ridiculed.  You'd better be damned perfect in every way or they will cut you down.  In this case, they are focusing on an intellectual disability, which is not something that a person has control over.  Kids these days are a bunch of rotten little shits in general.

[Janie]

I don't think this has anything to do with determining the  proper terms to apply to people with actual developmental/intellectual disabilities. Rather it's about using the word derisively when referring to people who do not have those disabilities. In the same way, "My friend Bob is gay" is not offensive, but "You're so gay" is, when used as a slur.

[dragoncar]

I think that Intellectually Disabled is the new term for MR.   I like the term ghetto that kids use -- as in "that's so ghetto!"

I think the new term is fetch.  As in "that's so fetch!"

[Kriegsspiel]

Stop trying to make "fetch" happen dragon, it's NOT going to happen!

[Kriegsspiel]

I don't think this has anything to do with determining the  proper terms to apply to people with actual developmental/intellectual disabilities. Rather it's about using the word derisively when referring to people who do not have those disabilities. In the same way, "My friend Bob is gay" is not offensive, but "You're so gay" is, when used as a slur.

It's tricky, but some people learn how to ride the lightning. Have you ever tried slurring someone with a word that is definitely offensive? Like "God DAMMIT Sally, you are being a fucking rapist today!"  Very tough to pull it off and keep the negative attention not on yourself, but on the person being rapy. Where it belongs.

[dragoncar]

I don't think this has anything to do with determining the  proper terms to apply to people with actual developmental/intellectual disabilities. Rather it's about using the word derisively when referring to people who do not have those disabilities. In the same way, "My friend Bob is gay" is not offensive, but "You're so gay" is, when used as a slur.

It's tricky, but some people learn how to ride the lightning. Have you ever tried slurring someone with a word that is definitely offensive? Like "God DAMMIT Sally, you are being a fucking rapist today!"  Very tough to pull it off and keep the negative attention not on yourself, but on the person being rapy. Where it belongs.

Me: Stop being so retarded
You:  I was actually diagnosed with grade-A retardism at the age of 5.
Me: Fuck, I only call non-retarded people retarded.  I'd never call an actual retard retarded.  Especially a grade-A.

[frugalnacho]

So is grade A retardism the best or worst kind?

[dragoncar]

So is grade A retardism the best or worst kind?

Depends on how retarded you desire to be in life.