You want people to be empathetic towards your group, police your group into stop being asses to other groups first. You'd be surprised at how well that would help.
No, I want people to be empathetic. Period. And while I'm not sure you know who my "group" is, I think everyone's group needs policing. People are often lazy, non-empathetic, or even cruel when dealing with those who don't look like them, share their beliefs, etc etc. I also do these things just like anyone else and it isn't excusable when I do it, either.
"Get over it" is fine to a certain extent, but that certainly isn't an empathetic stance. I think you can personally get over things while talking about broader issues. An example would be people who grow up poor, uneducated, etc - we should absolutely try to alleviate the conditions that they grew up in, but on a personal level the victimhood mentality isn't healthy.
I'll try not to belabor the point much longer, but the focus on the word "magic" is misplaced. Religious belief has also been called "ludicrous" and "nonsense" in this thread; does anyone find those words less offensive? It's not the labels being used to which people have been taking offense; it's the content of the message -- namely, that talking snakes and omnipotent gods, like alchemy and healthy cigarettes, are absurd. Are we precluded from voicing that opinion because those who hold those beliefs find it offensive?
Brooklyn, I thought this went without saying so I didn't draw attention to it. Of course people calling other peoples' religious convictions absurd, ridiculous, etc is ill-advised, non-empathetic, unproductive, unhelpful, and even arrogant (assuming we're not talking about very hateful stuff like terrorism, racism, etc). This is why people like Dawkins get such a backlash, despite his incredible brilliance.
You are a smart cat, you can very easily disagree with someone's believes without comparing them to healthy cigarettes or calling them absurd. What does your verbal assault accomplish?
Or here's a fantastic idea: How about the religious people come up with a word that doesn't offend their sensibilities?
I'd reckon that you know how to do this, intuitively. Why not religious or spiritual? There are many other words that can be used in these discussions - theology, faith, theism, deism, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, etc.
And Gin (whose faith I have much more emotional sympathy with, since I am pretty sure I practice some similar rituals) will have to suffer through the abuse. Just like I have to constantly suffer through the majority in society unthinkingly calling me 'amoral' or whatever.
I think Gin and I are tough and can likely manage to get through the day with less than optimal terms being flung our way LOL.
You shouldn't have to suffer through it, because it is BS. I disagree with it with the same force that I'm having in this discussion. Sure, on a personal level (as mentioned above), it is helpful to suffer through it. That doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about it and try to be better about how we treat each other.
The problem with this plan is that it's like calling a burgler a "home entry specialist." Yes I agree it is a very clear and unambiguous descriptor, but it fails to highlight the deliberately negative connotation that "burglar" does.
You all keep talking about the use of the word magic as if the discomfort it causes people is accidental. It's not accidental, at least not when I use it. I'm deliberately trying to remind people that they believe in something that everyone else knows is false. That they probably know is false, too, if they are honest with themselves. No educated person living in America today seriously believes the entire Earth was flooded 6000 years ago, killing all life on the planet except what Noah put on boat. Because that's stupid and everyone knows it. It's easy to disprove ten different ways. Why do we keep pretending we actually believe it?
More importantly, why do we have to keep pretending that it's okay for other people to believe it? It's not. It's not okay to base your important life decisions on horoscopes. It's not okay to refuse medical care for your sick kid because Jehova said sickness doesn't exist. It's not okay to decapitate a construction worker or rape a 12 year old girl because you believe the Koran. It's not okay to discriminate against black people because Joseph Smith was a racist. It's not okay to tell an alter boy that Jesus's love is to be found in your penis. It's not okay to do bad things, and it's not okay to use your supposed belief in supernatural bullshit as a defense for the bad things you do. We need to let it all go.
Not all of religion is magic. There are good messages in there, and good people trying to do good things. Those parts I'm fine with, even supportive of. But there are also parts that are deliberately stupidly magical, in the sense that they are obvious falsehoods. They are lies, or at best deliberate fictions design to make a point. They are stories about things that never happened, and could never happen, so stop acting like you can't tell the difference between reality and fiction. No one reads Harry Potter and seriously questions whether or not it's a true story, so why do they struggle with this question with the Bible?
sol, I'm honestly taken aback and a bit surprised. I thought there was a chance I was just misunderstanding you, but I now can't help but believe that there is some judgement in what you've been saying. I also obviously agree with you that people using beliefs to justify bad things is not OK and that those beliefs should be tossed into the dustbins of history (racism, terrorism, pedophilia, etc). However, you're accusing many believers of
not being honest with themselves and that is pretty demonstrably false - there are a great many well-educated and honest believers. Furthermore, many people read the feeding of the thousands and other religious motifs as metaphorical, focusing on the message they convey. Shit, there was even a recent Hollywood film with a different take on the flood narrative. Not everyone takes everything literally.
I feel that your tone is incredibly unhelpful and belittling in this particular post: "stop acting like you can't tell the difference between reality and fiction," comparing Harry Potter to the Bible, "deliberately stupidly magical", etc. These are very broad brushes to paint over the vast majority of humanity that adheres to some form of spiritual or religious belief.
