"Every rape is not a gender-motivated hate crime"

[Primm]

Um, no, I'm pretty sure it is Judge.

The story.

Setting aside the issues around statutes of limitations and the like, what is rape if not a "gender-motivated hate crime"? Whether its male/female/other against any subset of the gender equilibrium, that's still what it is.

[Mr FrugalNL]

You seem to be saying that rape is, by definition, a gender-motivated hate crime. All it would take to disprove that position is a single example of a rape that does not fall into that category. So how about a case of statutory rape, whereby two young people who have the hots for each other have sex, but happen to be on opposite sides of some arbitrary age line laid down in a statute? That's not a gender-motivated hate crime, now is it?

[Primm]

You seem to be saying that rape is, by definition, a gender-motivated hate crime. All it would take to disprove that position is a single example of a rape that does not fall into that category. So how about a case of statutory rape, whereby two young people who have the hots for each other have sex, but happen to be on opposite sides of some arbitrary age line laid down in a statute? That's not a gender-motivated hate crime, now is it?

Fair point. I was really only considering violent non-consensual rape (leaving aside the argument about minors consenting...).

But yes, ok. Apart from that.

[winkeyman]

You seem to be saying that rape is, by definition, a gender-motivated hate crime. All it would take to disprove that position is a single example of a rape that does not fall into that category. So how about a case of statutory rape, whereby two young people who have the hots for each other have sex, but happen to be on opposite sides of some arbitrary age line laid down in a statute? That's not a gender-motivated hate crime, now is it?

Fair point. I was really only considering violent non-consensual rape (leaving aside the argument about minors consenting...).

But yes, ok. Apart from that.

What about a college guy who really wants some particular girl. He sees her passed out on a bed at a party. He rapes her in her unconscious state.

Rape? Yes. Morally repugnant?  Yes.

But I wouldn't say the he necessarily hates her. He's just an antisocial pervert rapist creep.

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

You seem to be saying that rape is, by definition, a gender-motivated hate crime. All it would take to disprove that position is a single example of a rape that does not fall into that category. So how about a case of statutory rape, whereby two young people who have the hots for each other have sex, but happen to be on opposite sides of some arbitrary age line laid down in a statute? That's not a gender-motivated hate crime, now is it?

Fair point. I was really only considering violent non-consensual rape (leaving aside the argument about minors consenting...).

But yes, ok. Apart from that.

What about a college guy who really wants some particular girl. He sees her passed out on a bed at a party. He rapes her in her unconscious state.

Rape? Yes. Morally repugnant?  Yes.

But I wouldn't say the he necessarily hates her. He's just an antisocial pervert rapist creep.

He might not dislike her personally, but I would posit that he's a misogynist. He thinks women are his for the taking. He thinks they are not quite people in the same way he is. If that's not hate, what is?

[winkeyman]

You seem to be saying that rape is, by definition, a gender-motivated hate crime. All it would take to disprove that position is a single example of a rape that does not fall into that category. So how about a case of statutory rape, whereby two young people who have the hots for each other have sex, but happen to be on opposite sides of some arbitrary age line laid down in a statute? That's not a gender-motivated hate crime, now is it?

Fair point. I was really only considering violent non-consensual rape (leaving aside the argument about minors consenting...).

But yes, ok. Apart from that.

What about a college guy who really wants some particular girl. He sees her passed out on a bed at a party. He rapes her in her unconscious state.

Rape? Yes. Morally repugnant?  Yes.

But I wouldn't say the he necessarily hates her. He's just an antisocial pervert rapist creep.

He might not dislike her personally, but I would posit that he's a misogynist. He thinks women are his for the taking. He thinks they are not quite people in the same way he is. If that's not hate, what is?

I'm not sure what I'd call it. How about this one.

A man in prison or some other weird situation rapes another man. He does so to show dominance to other men in the community and gain status. Not out of hate.

An afghan tribal leader rapes a young boy. Not because he hates the boy but because it is culturally accepted or expected, and to gain status in the eyes of his community.

[onlykelsey]

What happened to her sounds awful, and it lines up with my limited experience in that industry (and my broad experience as a woman!)

But I think it might be silly to read too much in to the judge's quote.  It doesn't mean the statutory hate crime definition (which has a longer statute of limitations) according to her.  That's it.

[randymarsh]

But I think it might be silly to read too much in to the judge's quote.  It doesn't mean the statutory hate crime definition (which has a longer statute of limitations) according to her.  That's it.

This. Calling Kesha's alleged rape a hate crime was her lawyer trying to get around the statue of limitations. IANAL, but I think this was somewhat of a hail mary.

This whole case is a shit show.

[winkeyman]

Apart from whether or not there's hate involved, that's not really the intention of hate crime laws, which I take to be twofold: to document causes of crime for statistical purposes, and tudo mete out extra punishment in the case of a prejudicial crime, as a social deterrent against prejudice.

If every rapist is committing a hate crime, then the punishment should be baked into existing rape laws and punishments. But a race-based murder should be catalogued and punished in a different way than a non-race-based murder. Alternately, if you think some rape is hate crime and some isn't, do you think hate-related rape should be punished more harshly than non-hate-related rape? I feel like we already have that kind of division with classifications like statutory rape.

What happened to her sounds awful, and it lines up with my limited experience in that industry (and my broad experience as a woman!)

But I think it might be silly to read too much in to the judge's quote.  It doesn't mean the statutory hate crime definition (which has a longer statute of limitations) according to her.  That's it.

I'm pretty much in agreement with the sentiment of these two posts.

Not every negative interaction between genders or races is motivated by racism or sexism. Not every crime against a woman or minority is a hate crime. To pretend otherwise is to diminish the seriousness of those concepts.