Author Topic: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...  (Read 9628 times)

FuckRx

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$ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« on: October 11, 2013, 04:28:23 PM »

i'm impressed how many patients in my practice take herbals, supplements, vitamins and every data you look at shows that unless you getting that entity from the source itself it really doesn't do much for you and if anything it harms you... so my $ saving tip to you is stop the the 1-a-day multivitamin, stop the fish oil, stop the vit C, stop the the zinc, the magnesium.... stop the herbal supplement... stop the weight gainer, weight loser ... now if it's prescribed (like prescription vit D, prescription iron, prescription potassium) then that's different...
i tell this to my patients and i have to throw up my fists ready to defend myself so bring it, i'm ready...i think.

hoodedfalcon

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2013, 04:38:29 PM »
This is interesting. I've recently started taking a high potency vitamin and algal DHA/Omega supplements after getting some blood work back that said I was pretty low in a few things (D, Omega, B-12). Are you saying these sorts of things do absolutely nothing for you? I am vegan, and even though I try to eat a varied diet, I know there are a few vitamins, etc. that just aren't as prevalent in a plant-based diet. Is it just a total waste of money? It's not like I am going to start eating fish, so supplements might be the best way for me to go. Or I am just a sucker and I bought into the hype...

dragoncar

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2013, 04:43:46 PM »
Hm well I disagree.  Some people take it to extremes, but there are valid reasons to take many supplements.

matchewed

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2013, 04:45:32 PM »
One read that I've always found interesting on this subject -
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/07/the-vitamin-myth-why-we-think-we-need-supplements/277947/

Personally I just make sure to eat plenty of veggies and cook my own food the majority of the time. I have yet to have a doctor tell me I need supplements and my health is generally fine. That being said I'm also relatively young so that lifetime of living hasn't started doing its thing yet. But I'm confident you can get all of what your body needs by eating well.

FuckRx

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2013, 04:53:12 PM »
This is interesting. I've recently started taking a high potency vitamin and algal DHA/Omega supplements after getting some blood work back that said I was pretty low in a few things (D, Omega, B-12). Are you saying these sorts of things do absolutely nothing for you? I am vegan, and even though I try to eat a varied diet, I know there are a few vitamins, etc. that just aren't as prevalent in a plant-based diet. Is it just a total waste of money? It's not like I am going to start eating fish, so supplements might be the best way for me to go. Or I am just a sucker and I bought into the hype...

i'm vegan myself and except for vit b12 i don't see the need for any other kind of supplement in your case... i don't take vit b12... i haven't see enough conclusive data to support the need for b12 intake but i'm always following the research...
it's not so much that it's a waste of money but look at the studies that shows prostate cancer being linked to vit E, early heart disease with excess calcium intake, kidney stones with vit C...multiple kidney/liver failure cases with "herbal supplements" that are barely FDA regulated ....

Ozstache

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2013, 05:06:17 PM »

i'm impressed how many patients in my practice take herbals, supplements, vitamins and every data you look at shows that unless you getting that entity from the source itself it really doesn't do much for you and if anything it harms you... so my $ saving tip to you is stop the the 1-a-day multivitamin, stop the fish oil, stop the vit C, stop the the zinc, the magnesium.... stop the herbal supplement... stop the weight gainer, weight loser ... now if it's prescribed (like prescription vit D, prescription iron, prescription potassium) then that's different...
i tell this to my patients and i have to throw up my fists ready to defend myself so bring it, i'm ready...i think.

+1. It took me a few years to work it out, but if you eat a good diet you'll get all the vitamins and minerals you need. The only thing supplements do IMO is supplement the income of the companies that flog them to us.

hoodedfalcon

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2013, 05:22:41 PM »
This is interesting. I've recently started taking a high potency vitamin and algal DHA/Omega supplements after getting some blood work back that said I was pretty low in a few things (D, Omega, B-12). Are you saying these sorts of things do absolutely nothing for you? I am vegan, and even though I try to eat a varied diet, I know there are a few vitamins, etc. that just aren't as prevalent in a plant-based diet. Is it just a total waste of money? It's not like I am going to start eating fish, so supplements might be the best way for me to go. Or I am just a sucker and I bought into the hype...

i'm vegan myself and except for vit b12 i don't see the need for any other kind of supplement in your case... i don't take vit b12... i haven't see enough conclusive data to support the need for b12 intake but i'm always following the research...
it's not so much that it's a waste of money but look at the studies that shows prostate cancer being linked to vit E, early heart disease with excess calcium intake, kidney stones with vit C...multiple kidney/liver failure cases with "herbal supplements" that are barely FDA regulated ....

My B-12 levels have been borderline (150-250) for over ten years. I eat really well, I chow down on nutritional yeast every chance I get, etc. I started experiencing symptoms about 7 years ago (numb fingers/toes, foggy brain, etc). I've been giving myself B-12 shots for the last 7 years, and my levels are in the 250-300 range now. Even though my Omega levels came back really low, you still wouldn't see a need to take supplements? Like, 2.9 when the low end of normal is 8? I'm not going to eat fish....so, it's either supplement or keep eating what I have been eating, which doesn't seem to be doing the trick.

dragoncar

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2013, 06:50:08 PM »

i'm impressed how many patients in my practice take herbals, supplements, vitamins and every data you look at shows that unless you getting that entity from the source itself it really doesn't do much for you and if anything it harms you... so my $ saving tip to you is stop the the 1-a-day multivitamin, stop the fish oil, stop the vit C, stop the the zinc, the magnesium.... stop the herbal supplement... stop the weight gainer, weight loser ... now if it's prescribed (like prescription vit D, prescription iron, prescription potassium) then that's different...
i tell this to my patients and i have to throw up my fists ready to defend myself so bring it, i'm ready...i think.

+1. It took me a few years to work it out, but if you eat a good diet you'll get all the vitamins and minerals you need. The only thing supplements do IMO is supplement the income of the companies that flog them to us.

Sure you can get what you need by eating well.  But is that the most cost effective way to get what you need?  Some of us are on a budget after all

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2013, 07:26:25 PM »
But is that the most cost effective way to get what you need?
It's the only way, with the exception of Vitamin D which you make for yourself. Vitamins in pill form aren't bioavailable and do no good.

FuckRx

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2013, 07:29:48 PM »
This is interesting. I've recently started taking a high potency vitamin and algal DHA/Omega supplements after getting some blood work back that said I was pretty low in a few things (D, Omega, B-12). Are you saying these sorts of things do absolutely nothing for you? I am vegan, and even though I try to eat a varied diet, I know there are a few vitamins, etc. that just aren't as prevalent in a plant-based diet. Is it just a total waste of money? It's not like I am going to start eating fish, so supplements might be the best way for me to go. Or I am just a sucker and I bought into the hype...

i'm vegan myself and except for vit b12 i don't see the need for any other kind of supplement in your case... i don't take vit b12... i haven't see enough conclusive data to support the need for b12 intake but i'm always following the research...
it's not so much that it's a waste of money but look at the studies that shows prostate cancer being linked to vit E, early heart disease with excess calcium intake, kidney stones with vit C...multiple kidney/liver failure cases with "herbal supplements" that are barely FDA regulated ....

My B-12 levels have been borderline (150-250) for over ten years. I eat really well, I chow down on nutritional yeast every chance I get, etc. I started experiencing symptoms about 7 years ago (numb fingers/toes, foggy brain, etc). I've been giving myself B-12 shots for the last 7 years, and my levels are in the 250-300 range now. Even though my Omega levels came back really low, you still wouldn't see a need to take supplements? Like, 2.9 when the low end of normal is 8? I'm not going to eat fish....so, it's either supplement or keep eating what I have been eating, which doesn't seem to be doing the trick.

the question is a little too broad/nonspecific to give a proper fair answer to... b12 is a tough little chemical to really assess and properly manage... you can't just check b12, you have to check homocysteine levels etc. to really properly address any side effects from low b12... even then we don't know exactly what normal values of b12 should be... we know what they "are" in the average population (hence the normal range that a lab gives you) but we don't know much beyond that... sorry for the vague answer but i would say if you got tingling etc and suspect low b12 you might need some more extensive testing ...

matchewed

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2013, 07:38:14 PM »

i'm impressed how many patients in my practice take herbals, supplements, vitamins and every data you look at shows that unless you getting that entity from the source itself it really doesn't do much for you and if anything it harms you... so my $ saving tip to you is stop the the 1-a-day multivitamin, stop the fish oil, stop the vit C, stop the the zinc, the magnesium.... stop the herbal supplement... stop the weight gainer, weight loser ... now if it's prescribed (like prescription vit D, prescription iron, prescription potassium) then that's different...
i tell this to my patients and i have to throw up my fists ready to defend myself so bring it, i'm ready...i think.

+1. It took me a few years to work it out, but if you eat a good diet you'll get all the vitamins and minerals you need. The only thing supplements do IMO is supplement the income of the companies that flog them to us.

Sure you can get what you need by eating well.  But is that the most cost effective way to get what you need?  Some of us are on a budget after all

I'd say eating a good diet has other benefits beyond just meeting your dietary needs. It enforces good eating habits, presents a good role model for the kiddos, and brings about a lifestyle that is arguably healthier as supplements are crazy specific while the spinach you eat will not be and cover many other micro-nutrients that are awesome for you.

I also view it not just based on pure monetary costs but time costs. I can either just eat plenty of vegetables with some meat and occasional dairy, or I can visit a nutritionist and pay lots of money to figure out what supplements are lacking if I have a piss poor diet.

Also thank you mayo clinic - http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/supplements/NU00198

hoodedfalcon

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2013, 07:39:01 PM »
Thanks, Mashori! It's also nice to meet a fellow vegan! I've never really bought into the supplement thing, and I am pretty skeptical about all of it. I am probably slowly killing myself with mega doses of b-12...As for the rest of it, maybe I should just eat more kale with my kale...

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2013, 08:10:38 PM »
Not even vitamin D if you live in the Pacific Northwest?

What about for kids?  I can never get my kids to eat as many vegetables and as much variety of foods as I would like them to, so I have them take a multi-vitamin just in case it might help.  Am I wasting my money there?

My cousin and her husband crack me up.  They have an entire two-door cabinet in their kitchen filled with supplements.  And the counter below the cabinet is filled with supplements that don't fit in the cabinet.  But that's only "his" side.  There's another cabinet that has her supplements.  And then there's the bathroom...  And no, they don't seem any healthier than anyone else.  Maybe less, honestly.  I've often wondered what they spend on supplements each month.  Probably more than my car payment.  :/

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2013, 08:45:46 PM »
Friend who is a nurse told me, "You wouldn't believe how many of those pills I see coming out whole at the other end."

I do agree many are useless. But many people aren't eating a balanced diet - so you really think they shouldn't bother with the multivitamin? Or the fish oil which has been clinically proven to be effective?

matchewed

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2013, 01:03:27 AM »
Friend who is a nurse told me, "You wouldn't believe how many of those pills I see coming out whole at the other end."

I do agree many are useless. But many people aren't eating a balanced diet - so you really think they shouldn't bother with the multivitamin? Or the fish oil which has been clinically proven to be effective?

Are you sure about fish oil? http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/106/21/2747.full or http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/fish-oil-friend-or-foe-201307126467
I like the AHA article, it has a crapton of information. The basic conclusion is that unless you have documented coronary heart disease just eat foods which have Omega 3's (oily fish and certain oils).

The harvard article basically states that unless a doctor explicitly told you to take it you may want to reconsider as you don't know the risks and may be pill popping with abandon.

Not even vitamin D if you live in the Pacific Northwest?

What about for kids?  I can never get my kids to eat as many vegetables and as much variety of foods as I would like them to, so I have them take a multi-vitamin just in case it might help.  Am I wasting my money there?

My cousin and her husband crack me up.  They have an entire two-door cabinet in their kitchen filled with supplements.  And the counter below the cabinet is filled with supplements that don't fit in the cabinet.  But that's only "his" side.  There's another cabinet that has her supplements.  And then there's the bathroom...  And no, they don't seem any healthier than anyone else.  Maybe less, honestly.  I've often wondered what they spend on supplements each month.  Probably more than my car payment.  :/

Vitamin D - http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/vitamin_d_more_may_not_be_better

I'm not trying to scare people away from supplements. But at best the jury is still out and everyone will have slightly different needs, without direction from a medical professional telling you that you need to take 1000mg of vitamin X, you don't know what you are doing to your body. Eating a balanced diet is the most effective way to get what your body needs.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 01:09:28 AM by matchewed »

Kriegsspiel

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2013, 07:54:39 AM »
Personally, I'm going to keep taking my multi, fish oil, and creatine.

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2013, 03:29:45 PM »

i'm impressed how many patients in my practice take herbals, supplements, vitamins and every data you look at shows that unless you getting that entity from the source itself it really doesn't do much for you and if anything it harms you... so my $ saving tip to you is stop the the 1-a-day multivitamin, stop the fish oil, stop the vit C, stop the the zinc, the magnesium.... stop the herbal supplement... stop the weight gainer, weight loser ... now if it's prescribed (like prescription vit D, prescription iron, prescription potassium) then that's different...
i tell this to my patients and i have to throw up my fists ready to defend myself so bring it, i'm ready...i think.

I'm heading in that direction of food over supplements e.g. fish instead of fish oil supplements; homemade sauerkraut and kombucha over probiotics; Brazil nuts instead of selenium; ACV instead of digestive supplements.  But I'm also very much in the camp of doing things that make me "look, feel and perform" better.  Zinc lozenges shorten the duration/intensity of my colds.  Magnesium helps me to sleep better.  I'm not sure about Vit D, but I can justify it as a dark-skinned person with an office job who is usually covered up in pants. 

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2013, 03:51:08 PM »
Vitamin D is added to most foods in the US, federal rules or something back a few decades. It's to help with kids when they are growing and the parents couldn't afford "healthy" food. Anyways, check the labels, almost everything has some vitamin d in it now. Most "food" items, not "junk" food

Get some sun too for vitamin d production.

my stance on supplements are that unless you have a disorder/reason you can't produce/absorb them, you'll get enough from eating normal food, not junk/fast food.

edit:
disclaimer, i do take fish oil pills, not religiously but when I feel like it :S. I don't "need" it anymore but it doesn't harm me either. But I needed them and vitamin b when I was on other medication in the past. Since I have them still, I take them when I'm in the mood, since I don't want them to expire. And I'm fairly sure taking them won't harm me either, not for taking a pill every other day or once a week :D. I'm just not getting the benefit from it either I think.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 03:53:56 PM by eyem »

PKFFW

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2013, 07:46:43 PM »

i'm impressed how many patients in my practice take herbals, supplements, vitamins and every data you look at shows that unless you getting that entity from the source itself it really doesn't do much for you and if anything it harms you... so my $ saving tip to you is stop the the 1-a-day multivitamin, stop the fish oil, stop the vit C, stop the the zinc, the magnesium.... stop the herbal supplement... stop the weight gainer, weight loser ... now if it's prescribed (like prescription vit D, prescription iron, prescription potassium) then that's different...
i tell this to my patients and i have to throw up my fists ready to defend myself so bring it, i'm ready...i think.
hhhmmmm

You begin by saying that if you are not getting the entity from the source then it is not doing you any good.  You then go on to say if it is prescribed then that's different.

Could you enlighten me as to how some writing on a piece of paper suddenly makes getting the entity from a supplement actually do something when without that seemingly magical piece of paper getting the entity from a supplement wont do any good?
« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 08:03:27 PM by PKFFW »

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2013, 08:22:42 PM »
think he meant that it's better to get it from food sources and not pills, they still need to be absorbed. If you are deficient in something, taking a pill would supplement what foods give, or may be formulated to be absorbed with other molecules, in the case that someone can't absorb it in natural state. I don't know much about formulations of pills. Say you can't absorbed "natural" vitamin X, but  pill X contains vitamin X that is attached to say glucose. Body will take in glucose and the vitamin X along with it. I'm making this up though :D. But based on articles like this one, I wouldn't think I'm too far off http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=do-vitamins-in-pills-diff

the piece of paper signifies you went to a doctor that somehow ran some tests/knows why patient is lacking the vitamin and taking the pills is how to fix it. Taking it on your own, you have no idea what you would be lacking if any at all, or which kind of pill to take, if the formulation of pill would make a difference

edit: @below; maybe, now that I read it again, I'm kind of leery of of him having "patients" only because of how he writes. Sure I don't use the correct grammar/punctuations  mostly because I'm lazy. And I leave out words from not proofreading as closely as I should too. But a doctor should be able to write a little clearer than that, to get through med school and all. Sorry OP if you are a doctor but ugh, work on your communication skills :D
« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 08:47:17 PM by eyem »

PKFFW

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2013, 08:33:34 PM »
think he meant that it's better to get it from food sources and not pills, they still need to be absorbed. If you are deficient in something, taking a pill would supplement what foods give, or may be formulated to be absorbed with other molecules, in the case that someone can't absorb it in natural state. I don't know much about formulations of pills. Say you can't absorbed "natural" vitamin X, but  pill X contains vitamin X that is attached to say glucose. Body will take in glucose and the vitamin X along with it. I'm making this up though :D. But based on articles like this one, I wouldn't think I'm too far off http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=do-vitamins-in-pills-diff

the piece of paper signifies you went to a doctor that somehow ran some tests/knows why patient is lacking the vitamin and taking the pills is how to fix it. Taking it on your own, you have no idea what you would be lacking if any at all, or which kind of pill to take, if the formulation of pill would make a difference
You may be right but that is entirely different to what was claimed in the OP.

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2013, 09:44:26 PM »
Personally, I'm going to keep taking my multi, fish oil, and creatine.
Yeah, we all know that our supplements are effective because we feel worse when we're not taking them.

Unless there's valid double-blind controlled study data over a period of at least a decade that debunks a supplement, then I'm going to keep taking my placebos.
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FuckRx

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2013, 12:13:21 PM »

i got lost a little on the thread but yes i am a physician if that's what was asked and i get a lot of these sort of questions about whether or not someone should take a med/supplement.

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2013, 12:38:57 PM »
Personally, I'm going to keep taking my multi, fish oil, and creatine.

Do you have a specific need for any of these?  It's amazing to me how people can be presented with data, see the conclusion, and do exactly the opposite.

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2013, 12:53:49 PM »
I take nothing.  Balanced diet.  Exercise.  How would you know if what you take as a supplement is in fact even working. If you think it is...are you sure it isn't a placebo effect?
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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2013, 01:24:18 PM »
But is that the most cost effective way to get what you need?
It's the only way, with the exception of Vitamin D which you make for yourself. Vitamins in pill form aren't bioavailable and do no good.

Bs, otherwise as discussed above, why take it when prescribed by your doctor.  Sure supplements are unregulated so some May be bioinavailable.  But with proper research you can certainly get a bio available version of whatever you need.


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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2013, 01:24:30 PM »
I take nothing.  Balanced diet.  Exercise.  How would you know if what you take as a supplement is in fact even working. If you think it is...are you sure it isn't a placebo effect?

I have chronic iron deficiency anemia and believe me I can tell when I have not taken the iron for a few weeks. And you can't exactly feel your cholesterol going down with fish oil. For most people though if you aren't correcting an actual deficiency, you may be experiencing the placebo effect.

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2013, 02:43:52 PM »
Personally, I'm going to keep taking my multi, fish oil, and creatine.

Do you have a specific need for any of these?  It's amazing to me how people can be presented with data, see the conclusion, and do exactly the opposite.

I guess as much need as anyone, in that vitamins and EFAs are necessary for anyone. Creatine I just take for improved athletic performance. What data were you referring to?

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2013, 02:49:35 PM »
Personally, I'm going to keep taking my multi, fish oil, and creatine.

Do you have a specific need for any of these?  It's amazing to me how people can be presented with data, see the conclusion, and do exactly the opposite.

I guess as much need as anyone, in that vitamins and EFAs are necessary for anyone. Creatine I just take for improved athletic performance. What data were you referring to?

I meant a medical need or condition, or even dietary habits, where you don't get enough vitamins from your diet.

The data I was referring to were contained in the reports linked to above, primarily by matchewed.  The general consensus is that unless you have a specific unmet medical need for supplements, you probably don't need to take them.

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2013, 03:49:36 PM »
Bs, otherwise as discussed above, why take it when prescribed by your doctor.  Sure supplements are unregulated so some May be bioinavailable.  But with proper research you can certainly get a bio available version of whatever you need.
Perhaps my statement was overly broad, but i) don't act like everything doctors do is optimal for patient health, because that's far from the truth, and ii) even a cursory google search makes it clear that vitamin supplementation in general does nothing - and specifically, if you google "vitamin d" at this moment, you get a bunch of news articles about how it does nothing for the general population.

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2013, 06:53:03 PM »
I meant a medical need or condition, or even dietary habits, where you don't get enough vitamins from your diet.

I don't have any detrimental medical conditions that I'm aware of. I'm reasonably sure I don't get enough vitamins and minerals from my diet, so I use a multi. Kind of like a nutritional Pascal's Wager... I'm not sure if I do or don't get enough vitamins/minerals, so I take a multi.

Quote
The data I was referring to were contained in the reports linked to above, primarily by matchewed.  The general consensus is that unless you have a specific unmet medical need for supplements, you probably don't need to take them.

I did read them, I didn't see anything to dissuade me from continuing with the 3 things I mentioned.

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2013, 08:57:38 PM »
Bs, otherwise as discussed above, why take it when prescribed by your doctor.  Sure supplements are unregulated so some May be bioinavailable.  But with proper research you can certainly get a bio available version of whatever you need.
Perhaps my statement was overly broad, but i) don't act like everything doctors do is optimal for patient health, because that's far from the truth, and ii) even a cursory google search makes it clear that vitamin supplementation in general does nothing - and specifically, if you google "vitamin d" at this moment, you get a bunch of news articles about how it does nothing for the general population.

Uh not for the general population but for those who are deficient! 

I don't think everything every doctor does is best for his patient.  I generally question absolutes.

I think some vitamin supplementation is an effective and cost effective way to improve one's health in certain circumstances.

My discussion of cost effectiveness is in response to the OP who said to save money by not buying supplements. 

For example, for women, it can be especially helpful to take calcium supplements instead of consuming all the calories that come with calcium rich foods

Winter's Tale

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2013, 09:42:40 AM »
It's a good idea for women who are trying to get pregnant or could accidentally get pregnant to take a multivitamin for the folic acid.  Sufficient folic acid can prevent major birth defects like spina bifida.

Seems like a prudent step to me.

galliver

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2013, 10:18:37 AM »
I keep multivitamins around but don't take them regularly; I start if I'm feeling run-down or getting sick, to hopefully make sure my body has access to anything I might be low on. If it's a placebo...well, you have to take something to activate the placebo effect!

I do understand and agree with the get-your-nutrition-from-food argument. But I prefer not to analyze my diet into oblivion; too time consuming and takes the fun and pleasure out of food. I stick to eating a variety and trying new foods and recipes. And in case my taste on a particular week leaves out a certain vitamin or mineral and leaves me groggy and unfocused, I'll try to fill it in with a multi. If it works, great. If not, it'll get better when my diet changes the next week.

Could this 'double up' my doses of certain vitamins? Probably. But the prescribed "Daily Values" aren't really that specific. A large orange gives you 160% DV of VitC. So I would wager that your body can handle a brief "overdose" in one or a few vitamins. Megadoses (1000%DV!)  for years on end, probably not a great plan.

matchewed

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2013, 11:34:37 AM »
I keep multivitamins around but don't take them regularly; I start if I'm feeling run-down or getting sick, to hopefully make sure my body has access to anything I might be low on. If it's a placebo...well, you have to take something to activate the placebo effect!

I do understand and agree with the get-your-nutrition-from-food argument. But I prefer not to analyze my diet into oblivion; too time consuming and takes the fun and pleasure out of food. I stick to eating a variety and trying new foods and recipes. And in case my taste on a particular week leaves out a certain vitamin or mineral and leaves me groggy and unfocused, I'll try to fill it in with a multi. If it works, great. If not, it'll get better when my diet changes the next week.

Could this 'double up' my doses of certain vitamins? Probably. But the prescribed "Daily Values" aren't really that specific. A large orange gives you 160% DV of VitC. So I would wager that your body can handle a brief "overdose" in one or a few vitamins. Megadoses (1000%DV!)  for years on end, probably not a great plan.

You're last section really depends on the vitamin and how your body processes it. For certain ones you are right, no biggie, the body quickly processes it out. For others not so much.

Again I'm not saying don't take vitamins, I'm saying become an informed consumer of vitamins if you choose to. It is just this arbitrary "I take vitamins because I don't know if I should take vitamins or not" approach that is concerning. Because it has become a large industry and was a fad which started thirty years years ago and has remain stuck in our collective conscious regardless of what the data suggests is why I recommend as "not a doctor" caution.

hoodedfalcon

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2013, 11:54:07 AM »

i'm impressed how many patients in my practice take herbals, supplements, vitamins and every data you look at shows that unless you getting that entity from the source itself it really doesn't do much for you and if anything it harms you... so my $ saving tip to you is stop the the 1-a-day multivitamin, stop the fish oil, stop the vit C, stop the the zinc, the magnesium.... stop the herbal supplement... stop the weight gainer, weight loser ... now if it's prescribed (like prescription vit D, prescription iron, prescription potassium) then that's different...
i tell this to my patients and i have to throw up my fists ready to defend myself so bring it, i'm ready...i think.

I do think the original post was oddly worded. OP says 1. Supplements don't do much for you and/or taking them may actually harm you. WOW!  I think most people would agree that getting nutrients from the food you eat is the ideal way to consume the vitamins/minerals/etc that we need. Yes, I think vitamin manufacturers have done a damn good job of making everyone thinks they are deficient somehow, and many people don't have any evidence of a deficiency. However, I think making a blanket statement like "don't take supplements" is not sound advice. In the practice of law, almost every question can be answered with "it depends." I think the same can be true for taking supplements.

I get it. Mindless consumerism is not just about buying the latest fall fashions. But accepting blanket medical advice via someone who doesn't know your diet or medical history is just as mindless as any other type of consumerism. I asked some questions to try to clarify earlier in this post, because when I first read the post I thought OP was saying that taking a supplement will do nothing for you and your are fooling yourself if you believe otherwise. Because of my history with deficiencies (medically determined), I was surprised to hear this (even with my already existing skepticism). I am going to continue to take b-12 shots every month, because I have been to doctors and specialists and I don't want to risk dementia or permanent nerve damage. :)

Daleth

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2013, 12:42:32 PM »
Hm well I disagree.  Some people take it to extremes, but there are valid reasons to take many supplements.

Particularly vitamin D. A very significant chunk of the US population is vitamin D-deprived. The less outdoorsy you are, the darker your skin is naturally (or the more sunscreen you wear), the more likely you are to be deficient.

galliver

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2013, 01:35:50 PM »
I keep multivitamins around but don't take them regularly; I start if I'm feeling run-down or getting sick, to hopefully make sure my body has access to anything I might be low on. If it's a placebo...well, you have to take something to activate the placebo effect!

I do understand and agree with the get-your-nutrition-from-food argument. But I prefer not to analyze my diet into oblivion; too time consuming and takes the fun and pleasure out of food. I stick to eating a variety and trying new foods and recipes. And in case my taste on a particular week leaves out a certain vitamin or mineral and leaves me groggy and unfocused, I'll try to fill it in with a multi. If it works, great. If not, it'll get better when my diet changes the next week.

Could this 'double up' my doses of certain vitamins? Probably. But the prescribed "Daily Values" aren't really that specific. A large orange gives you 160% DV of VitC. So I would wager that your body can handle a brief "overdose" in one or a few vitamins. Megadoses (1000%DV!)  for years on end, probably not a great plan.

You're last section really depends on the vitamin and how your body processes it. For certain ones you are right, no biggie, the body quickly processes it out. For others not so much.

Again I'm not saying don't take vitamins, I'm saying become an informed consumer of vitamins if you choose to. It is just this arbitrary "I take vitamins because I don't know if I should take vitamins or not" approach that is concerning. Because it has become a large industry and was a fad which started thirty years years ago and has remain stuck in our collective conscious regardless of what the data suggests is why I recommend as "not a doctor" caution.

Probably true. But no doctor of mine has ever been the least bit concerned about a multivitamin, even when it was more of a daily habit. Some have encouraged it. I can see some more esoteric substances being harmful even in directed dosage, although most of the stories I read about the harm of vitamins have someone taking ridiculous amounts of supplements for a long time. I don't think I've ever read a "Man/woman ends up in the hospital/dies after taking a daily multivitamin!"

I don't really know what you mean about being an informed consumer. Keep up with the state of medical science? Pretty sure that still approves of reasonable quantities of vitamins, and deems them effective or at worst harmless, in directed quantities. Read up on "natural remedies" sites (many of which strongly advocate large doses of supplements and consider medical science a conspiracy)? Get extensive blood work on a regular basis? Tabulate your intake of every single macro- and micro- nutrient? (Aint nobody got time for that!)

Frankies Girl

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2013, 03:29:07 PM »
I know that many vitamin supplements don't really do much, but in my husband's case, he's on a super concentrated fish oil (krill?) that successfully lowered his bad cholesterol and triglycerides to the point that he's in the normal ranges now. He tried going off them and they both shot back up. He eats a mostly healthy diet with lots of veggies, but he also has a hereditary propensity to have high LDL and horrible triglycerides that wouldn't come down much even on prescription meds (which he hated as they caused side effects).

Even taking into account the placebo effect, I would think that after several years of this, the effect would have worn off by now if it wasn't truly helping.
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ruthiegirl

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2013, 05:09:20 PM »
I agree that most vitamins are bunk.   

We went on a tour of our local sewage treatment plant for work and the fellow leading us around claimed that the number one thing that clogged up the filters...one-a-day vitamins.   Our bodies don't even break them down.  He said you could still read the brand markings on the pills.  And he was damn tired of picking vitamins out of the filters. 


That said, I test low for vitamin D.  Really low.  So, I do take that.  I can tell when I haven't been taking it, I get very lethargic and mopey.  Then I take is for a couple of days and my energy pops back up.  And I am outside as much as possible, at least a couple of hours a day. 

But, I get the sentiment that most vitamins should probably be skipped. 

dragoncar

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2013, 06:16:15 PM »
I agree that most vitamins are bunk.   

We went on a tour of our local sewage treatment plant for work and the fellow leading us around claimed that the number one thing that clogged up the filters...one-a-day vitamins.   Our bodies don't even break them down.  He said you could still read the brand markings on the pills.  And he was damn tired of picking vitamins out of the filters. 


That said, I test low for vitamin D.  Really low.  So, I do take that.  I can tell when I haven't been taking it, I get very lethargic and mopey.  Then I take is for a couple of days and my energy pops back up.  And I am outside as much as possible, at least a couple of hours a day. 

But, I get the sentiment that most vitamins should probably be skipped.

That's why I always examine my feces for undigested items and reingest them as necessary

matchewed

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2013, 08:47:48 PM »
I agree that most vitamins are bunk.   

We went on a tour of our local sewage treatment plant for work and the fellow leading us around claimed that the number one thing that clogged up the filters...one-a-day vitamins.   Our bodies don't even break them down.  He said you could still read the brand markings on the pills.  And he was damn tired of picking vitamins out of the filters. 


That said, I test low for vitamin D.  Really low.  So, I do take that.  I can tell when I haven't been taking it, I get very lethargic and mopey.  Then I take is for a couple of days and my energy pops back up.  And I am outside as much as possible, at least a couple of hours a day. 

But, I get the sentiment that most vitamins should probably be skipped.

That's why I always examine my feces for undigested items and reingest them as necessary

What's your go to sieve brand?

hoodedfalcon

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #42 on: October 14, 2013, 08:51:06 PM »
I agree that most vitamins are bunk.   

We went on a tour of our local sewage treatment plant for work and the fellow leading us around claimed that the number one thing that clogged up the filters...one-a-day vitamins.   Our bodies don't even break them down.  He said you could still read the brand markings on the pills.  And he was damn tired of picking vitamins out of the filters. 


That said, I test low for vitamin D.  Really low.  So, I do take that.  I can tell when I haven't been taking it, I get very lethargic and mopey.  Then I take is for a couple of days and my energy pops back up.  And I am outside as much as possible, at least a couple of hours a day. 

But, I get the sentiment that most vitamins should probably be skipped.

That's why I always examine my feces for undigested items and reingest them as necessary

That is the real money saving tip.

GuitarStv

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2013, 11:02:53 AM »
I agree that most vitamins are bunk.   

We went on a tour of our local sewage treatment plant for work and the fellow leading us around claimed that the number one thing that clogged up the filters...one-a-day vitamins.   Our bodies don't even break them down.  He said you could still read the brand markings on the pills.  And he was damn tired of picking vitamins out of the filters. 


That said, I test low for vitamin D.  Really low.  So, I do take that.  I can tell when I haven't been taking it, I get very lethargic and mopey.  Then I take is for a couple of days and my energy pops back up.  And I am outside as much as possible, at least a couple of hours a day. 

But, I get the sentiment that most vitamins should probably be skipped.

That's why I always examine my feces for undigested items and reingest them as necessary

That is the real money saving tip.

My dog is hella frugal then . . .

TGod

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2013, 11:42:19 AM »
I think the need for and the benefits of taking supplements is a pretty personal one and really hinges on body type. My husband and I eat a very healthy diet, eat the same foods (pescatarian - seafood but no birds or mammals), tons of veggies, and he generally has great levels on all his necessary vitamins. Me on the other, I struggle with iron (big time!!) and the b-vitamins as well. While some of you may argue that they don't work, I know from experience that they do work given that I am currently working with my naturopath and my doctor to raise my levels of everything by taking a ton of different supplements (it really bugs me to have to do it, but I really am unable to bring my levels up through my diet). My iron responds well to supplements as do my B's. Is it ideal, no. Do I feel like i'm spending money on stuff I shouldn't have to given that I eat a healthy, balanced diet, yes. But I'd also rather be able to sleep at night (low iron brings on some killer insomnia), and have energy to walk up the stairs, so i'll happily choke them down.

Kira

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #45 on: October 16, 2013, 10:08:19 AM »

Di

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #46 on: October 18, 2013, 09:15:33 PM »
Um, vitamin D3 (the only D you should be supplementing with) is dirt cheap and 180 caps of fish oil cost me $25. I don't get enough sun and hate freshwater fish. I'm good.

Nutritionists exist for a reason. Always be suspicious of a doctor's nutritional advice.

netskyblue

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Re: $ saving tip, don't take supplements...
« Reply #47 on: October 28, 2013, 02:39:32 PM »
Women who may become pregnant - they have discovered a dramatic decrease in the likelihood of autism in children born to women who were getting at least 400mg of folic acid for (I THINK) the four weeks prior to conception.  Unless you're a super fabulous eater, I wouldn't recommend skipping the multivitamin if you may become pregnant.