The Money Mustache Community
Around the Internet => Mustachianism Around the Web => Topic started by: lemonlyman on August 03, 2017, 09:02:47 AM
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This is on the front page of CNN today:
http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/02/pf/early-retirement/index.html (http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/02/pf/early-retirement/index.html)
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How do you graduate Harvard in 3 years? I'd rather stay the whole time to be there for 1 more year of hanging out with some of the most intelligent people in the world. I'm impressed that she could do that - she must have been taking a ton of classes.
It's possible because you can earn advance standing in certain majors with AP credit and whatnot, and then you can sign up for some extra courses, and then graduate early. A lot of the elite private colleges allow this because when the cost of attendance is $60-65k/yr there will be people who want to do it in three years. Some parents who are not receiving financial aid would like little Jimmy to hurry up and graduate asap.
One of the underappreciated twists of paying for college is that the elite schools with the huge sticker prices can work out to be cheaper than the lesser known or bottom-tier schools. The top universities have big endowments and more financial aid to offer, so students don't need to take on huge student loan debt. So the subject of this article probably paid rather little to attend and graduated with no debt, which is great.
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But my main point is if you have the opportunity to go to Harvard, even if you have taken enough courses to graduate in 3 years, why not keep going in the 4th year to get even smarter / more educated / meet even more people.
Is there a reason why you think you can only do that in an elite college setting? She already has the network and contacts. Why stay at an institution if you have already gotten what you wanted out of it? Seems like she got the piece of paper, which is the goal for most people that attend these prestigious institutions, and was ready to put it use.
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How do you graduate Harvard in 3 years? I'd rather stay the whole time to be there for 1 more year of hanging out with some of the most intelligent people in the world. I'm impressed that she could do that - she must have been taking a ton of classes.
It's possible because you can earn advance standing in certain majors with AP credit and whatnot, and then you can sign up for some extra courses, and then graduate early. A lot of the elite private colleges allow this because when the cost of attendance is $60-65k/yr there will be people who want to do it in three years. Some parents who are not receiving financial aid would like little Jimmy to hurry up and graduate asap.
One of the underappreciated twists of paying for college is that the elite schools with the huge sticker prices can work out to be cheaper than the lesser known or bottom-tier schools. The top universities have big endowments and more financial aid to offer, so students don't need to take on huge student loan debt. So the subject of this article probably paid rather little to attend and graduated with no debt, which is great.
I think that depends on the school. When I went to school, AP courses got you advanced to harder courses but didn't give you credit towards graduation. But my main point is if you have the opportunity to go to Harvard, even if you have taken enough courses to graduate in 3 years, why not keep going in the 4th year to get even smarter / more educated / meet even more people.
Definitely agree that the ivy leagues are not as expensive as you think as they offer need based financial aid.
Dual-credit courses (classes that earn you high school and college credit, which are different from AP classes) have exploded in the last 10-15 years. It is not uncommon for high achieving high schoolers in good schools to graduate with 1-1.5 years of college credits under their belt.
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What she managed to save is impressive, and continuing to live on a lower amount relative to their income is admirable.
But, what's the difference here between "retiring" and "becoming a SAHM"?
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What she managed to save is impressive, and continuing to live on a lower amount relative to their income is admirable.
But, what's the difference here between "retiring" and "becoming a SAHM"?
Spousal dependence? She has enough money to contribute her share of expenses and enough make it on her own after a divorce.
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But, what's the difference here between "retiring" and "becoming a SAHM"?
I'd say about $2.2 million.
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I think retirement first, baby second should be kind of a normal thing around here.
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Dual-credit courses (classes that earn you high school and college credit, which are different from AP classes) have exploded in the last 10-15 years. It is not uncommon for high achieving high schoolers in good schools to graduate with 1-1.5 years of college credits under their belt.
Most of my elective classes in my junior and senior years in college counted toward both an undergrad and a graduate degree (an honors program that you had to qualify for by asking). (I never did the grad degree, but if I had, I could have finished very quickly)
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College is expensive. If someone is willing to hire you after three years of it, take the deal!
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I actually think she deserves a lot of credit for figuring out how to get the Harvard credential so economically.
Everyone I talk to who is IN COLLEGE says not to graduate early. It's a comfortable life.
But remember: only 35% of adults have bachelor's degrees. These classes are often more than people can handle even over four or six years. So nothing but respect from me!
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I actually think she deserves a lot of credit for figuring out how to get the Harvard credential so economically.
Everyone I talk to who is IN COLLEGE says not to graduate early. It's a comfortable life.
But remember: only 35% of adults have bachelor's degrees. These classes are often more than people can handle even over four or six years. So nothing but respect from me!
3 years is quite impressive! I ended up spending 5 years getting my engineering bachelor's degree, and it was hard work the whole way. I do believe if I tried to take all my coursework in 3 years I would either go insane or die.
A combination of remedial classes (skipped a few years of high school...) and working student jobs to pay my own for from years 3-5 kept me from taking on the prescribed heavy class load. I do feel like I got more out of some of my classes by taking them more spread out. Some of the engineering classes were best done after certain math classes that were not prerequisites. Summer classes for a lot of the humanities was another helpful way to keep from getting swamped beyond my own capabilities
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I read this woman's story months ago. I find it strange how they won't give the woman's full name (or maybe it's a pseudonym)?
This woman did have some advantages that aren't available to everyone. Her college was paid for by her parents and also some scholarships. Lots of people, though, graduate with at least some debt.
She also was married which helps. Let's face it, an extra income is very helpful. Which is a topic that financial gurus like Suze Ormon and Dave Ramsey tend to shy away from: the fact that it is often far easier for financially responsible couples to save money, than singles. If you haven't been lucky enough to marry a partner when you're right out of college, it's going to be a struggle financially, unless you have a very good-paying job and don't go through long periods of unemployment.
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She also was married which helps. Let's face it, an extra income is very helpful. Which is a topic that financial gurus like Suze Ormon and Dave Ramsey tend to shy away from: the fact that it is often far easier for financially responsible couples to save money, than singles. If you haven't been lucky enough to marry a partner when you're right out of college, it's going to be a struggle financially, unless you have a very good-paying job and don't go through long periods of unemployment.
Or get a roommate. Or two. Or three.
https://nomoreharvarddebt.com/ (https://nomoreharvarddebt.com/)
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She also was married which helps. Let's face it, an extra income is very helpful. Which is a topic that financial gurus like Suze Ormon and Dave Ramsey tend to shy away from: the fact that it is often far easier for financially responsible couples to save money, than singles. If you haven't been lucky enough to marry a partner when you're right out of college, it's going to be a struggle financially, unless you have a very good-paying job and don't go through long periods of unemployment.
Or get a roommate. Or two. Or three.
https://nomoreharvarddebt.com/ (https://nomoreharvarddebt.com/)
Roommates can only help save a little money on rent, bills. You cannot build a financial future with a room mate, period. (Well, unless you and your room mate become something more than room mates). You can't buy a house together, share bank accounts or anything else. Your roommate can't put you on their health insurance if you lose your job. (I'm using the term "you" in general). Your room mate won't support you financially if you lose your job, as a spouse would; in fact, your room mate is more likely to kick you out if you go through job loss and can't pay your share of bills.
That's why it's hardly the same at all, as having a spouse. And many married people have inlaws who help them financially , too, with things such as monetary gifts given to the couple.
That's why having a working married partner is such a huge financial advantage. Most people I know would have had to wait a lot longer to buy a house, without a spouse pitching in. And some would have had to rent for the rest of their lives.
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Everyone I talk to who is IN COLLEGE says not to graduate early. It's a comfortable life.
Hell yeah it is. It's similar to FIRE in a lot of ways (namely, freedom of time and choices).
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She also was married which helps. Let's face it, an extra income is very helpful. Which is a topic that financial gurus like Suze Ormon and Dave Ramsey tend to shy away from: the fact that it is often far easier for financially responsible couples to save money, than singles. If you haven't been lucky enough to marry a partner when you're right out of college, it's going to be a struggle financially, unless you have a very good-paying job and don't go through long periods of unemployment.
Or get a roommate. Or two. Or three.
https://nomoreharvarddebt.com/ (https://nomoreharvarddebt.com/)
Roommates can only help save a little money on rent, bills. You cannot build a financial future with a room mate, period. (Well, unless you and your room mate become something more than room mates). You can't buy a house together, share bank accounts or anything else. Your roommate can't put you on their health insurance if you lose your job. (I'm using the term "you" in general). Your room mate won't support you financially if you lose your job, as a spouse would; in fact, your room mate is more likely to kick you out if you go through job loss and can't pay your share of bills.
That's why it's hardly the same at all, as having a spouse. And many married people have inlaws who help them financially , too, with things such as monetary gifts given to the couple.
That's why having a working married partner is such a huge financial advantage. Most people I know would have had to wait a lot longer to buy a house, without a spouse pitching in. And some would have had to rent for the rest of their lives.
The problem is that spouse may then want children. Which are a serious drain on finances in the early years. Better to stay a Virgin Queen and pay off the mortgage.
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I actually think she deserves a lot of credit for figuring out how to get the Harvard credential so economically.
Everyone I talk to who is IN COLLEGE says not to graduate early. It's a comfortable life.
But remember: only 35% of adults have bachelor's degrees. These classes are often more than people can handle even over four or six years. So nothing but respect from me!
My daughter got some really negative blow back from her academic adviser when she announced her goal to graduate from our state university in 3 years (5 high school AP courses plus a couple of online summer courses is her pathway). "Why do you want to do that?" "You will not get the real college experience!" Daughter: Um, to not pay for four years ... to get out in the workforce sooner ...
Boy, was my daughter pissed! : 0 ) (she's graduating debt free too!!)
She's only got one year to go and this year's adviser didn't comment either way.
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College academic advisors are all over the map. Mine encouraged me to take classes for which I had AP credit anyway (I made a 4 or 5 on 9 separate exams). I still went all four years, but got a second BA out of it.
You know how much the labor market pays for that second BA? I'll let you make your guess, bet it's the same as my guess :-)
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anybody guess zero?
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anybody guess zero?
Winner, winner, chicken dinner!
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The problem is that spouse may then want children. Which are a serious drain on finances in the early years. Better to stay a Virgin Queen and pay off the mortgage.
The 28 year old woman in this story, who retired, is a DINK. (Double Income, No Kids). This is the best financial situation to be in. They have more money, by far, that a lot of singles do.
And kids are only as expensive as you want them to be.
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] Or divorce and the required splitting of assets, legal fees, alimony, etc.. A roommate get nothing when they move on. Also the potential that you spouse becomes unemployed, disabled, mega-super-duper-spenypants, deep in debt, gets sued, wants to support parents, wants to quit to be an entrepreneur in a non-viable field, on and on. While I agree DINKs have the greatest likelihood for high incomes there can be ramifications that you don't have with roommates.
Assuming they even get divorced. About half of all marriages do not end up in divorce. It's statistically a higher risk for people who marry before the age of 25.
I still think singles have it harder.
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. But even aside from divorce you may end up supporting a spouse for some reason or other. And while most people are happy to do that for a spouse (unless they are supporting a big spender) its not always easier for DINKs if things don't go as planned and can often put a huge dent in joint finances that a SINK wouldn't have.
SINKs can also get a huge dent in their sole finances if they become sick or disabled and can't work. In some cases, they are more likely than a DINK to wind up on the street. Literally.
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SINKs can also get a huge dent in their sole finances if they become sick or disabled and can't work. In some cases, they are more likely than a DINK to wind up on the street. Literally.
Very true. I totally agree DINKs or even married SINKs (a non working spouse) have a huge support network compared to singles. Financial, physical and emotional. But being married isn't a 100% guarantee of financial success unless you and spouse are on the same page spending/savings wise and nothing goes awry. I saved more as a DINK but if hubby had decided to cash it all in for a Ferrari and yacht or joined a cult and gave it all to them I'd probably be pretty screwed ;-). If my roommates did that it wouldn't effect me at all.
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Sure, there's never 100% guarantee of financial success for anyone. But if I knew someone had bad money habits, I sure would not marry that person. That's part of making smart financial decisions; be careful who you marry.
I also think marrieds and people with children are more likely to get help from charities and churches, than singles would.
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Dual-credit courses (classes that earn you high school and college credit, which are different from AP classes) have exploded in the last 10-15 years. It is not uncommon for high achieving high schoolers in good schools to graduate with 1-1.5 years of college credits under their belt.
Having taught high school seniors for a long time, I'd say it differently: It's technically possible to enter college with 1 - 1.5 years of college credit; however, very few students actually have more than a semester's worth.
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Or get a roommate. Or two. Or three.
Nah, a spouse inspires frugality in a way that roommates don't.
Most of us mesh our finances with our spouse's. That means accountability and discussions; for a college-aged person that could translate into someone saying, "You have plenty of nice going-out dresses; don't buy something new for New Year's Eve". Whereas roommates will push you to go out to a club where you'll meet some guys. And when you're married, it's easier to start thinking about saving for a house and spending on solid furniture, whereas living with roommates has more of a temporary feel.
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Very true. I totally agree DINKs or even married SINKs (a non working spouse) have a huge support network compared to singles ... Sure, there's never 100% guarantee of financial success for anyone. But if I knew someone had bad money habits, I sure would not marry that person. That's part of making smart financial decisions; be careful who you marry.
Sure, people vary, but I think overall a frugal-minded spouse is a fantastic step towards financial independence.
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Thoughts after reading the article:
- Disagree that Millennials are the first group to reject traditional retirement and seek financial stability. I think very few people of any age group recognize this choice at a young and AND are disciplined enough to pursue this choice. Said differently, people on this website don't represent the world as a whole.
- The woman in the article made all the right choices, and she had her fair share of lucky breaks.
- Clearly she has a firm understanding of investing, and her nest egg is large -- why is her husband still working?
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- Clearly she has a firm understanding of investing, and her nest egg is large -- why is her husband still working?
Presumably because he likes his job. She's stated multiple times on her site that her nest egg can support them and she was so adamant about retiring that she did; her husband though likes his work and so he continues to despite not really needing to.
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Hi, All-
Not a Harvard grad here, but a grad of the Connecticut Ivy institution that Harvard mostly beats in football.
There are a LOT of misconceptions about the ivy league, price, and classes in general, and I want to add my two cents. (only two, I'm frugal.)
(I did a double BS/BA in Mechanical Engineering (practical, employable), and political science (world-class school for it, loved it, got to go to fancy things/write papers.))
* VERY important to note - the trio (Harvard, Yale, Princeton) of schools have tens of billions of endowment. They also have a very inflated/high-brow sense of what income classifies as "very poor" and needing of aid. (My mother still cackles gleefully saying "yale thinks we're poor!" as she sits in our comfortable house surrounded by nice things...) For me, and my middle-class (teacher, law enforcement) parents, and many others with low-six figure incomes, the school was less than half the cost of Cal Berkeley, UCLA, San Jose State, etc. - local state schools where I was a resident. I paid $3500/year for four years (student income contribution per financial aid) and my parents paid about $10k average per year. This woman may have done similarly.
* The trio mentioned above (HYP) - does not accept ANY AP/"college dual credit" credits or "college" credits from places it deems "lesser than" (anywhere but themselves, unfortunately.) I took 10 or so AP courses in high school - did well on the junior year exams, and got absolutely nothing to show for it except admission to the college in the first place. I didn't even pay to take the exams senior spring (already accepted - why pay $500 to sit for exams - for FUN? maybe my first mustachian moment...)
* You can graduate in three years, but they do not recommend it per the typical "college experience" blahblahthing - (more realistically, it's "wait, we want four years of your money"/indoctrination so when you become high powered CEOs, you donate a lot.) there's also a lot of hype around which "class year" you are at these old-school places.
Overall, the opportunities at these schools revolve around the super difficult coursework but also the myriad connections/employers who recruit directly at the school for high-paying jobs, and the alumni base. Also, the cost if your parents make less than $250k/year. I highly recommend the schools as a whole, and am not surprised at this woman's ambition- runs rampant at these schools. That was the best part to me - the conglomeration of amazing people at high density.
Cheers to mustachianism and this gal!
*modified for embarrassing punctuation errors - I left in 50% or so due to laziness/"punctuation frugality?")
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Dual-credit courses (classes that earn you high school and college credit, which are different from AP classes) have exploded in the last 10-15 years. It is not uncommon for high achieving high schoolers in good schools to graduate with 1-1.5 years of college credits under their belt.
Having taught high school seniors for a long time, I'd say it differently: It's technically possible to enter college with 1 - 1.5 years of college credit; however, very few students actually have more than a semester's worth.
True, but all of the students I have that went to an Ivy had plenty.
I think I started school with 28 credits, my school probably had a group of 30 kids that took a similar number of AP classes as I did.
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I attended high school inthe late 1990's. My parents were extremely supportive, paying for four years of a fairly expensive private college for me. Rather than use my many AP credits to graduate sooner, I used them to create the space for a second major, several musical projects, and a classical language minor. The economic impact was fairly low, but fitting a more well-rounded education into the same four years as a standard college course still seems valuable to me.
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Perhaps she read this post. A few days after my initial reply, she wrote an article about this
http://www.themoneyhabit.org/dual-early-retirement-mr-money-habit-still-works/