Author Topic: The Sierra Club and living minimally  (Read 5156 times)

Will

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The Sierra Club and living minimally
« on: November 28, 2014, 08:36:26 PM »
I'm a big fan of the Sierra Club, and it seems (logically) that they endorse living a Mustachian lifestyle:

http://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/2014-6-november-december/green-life/living-minimally

BlueMR2

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Re: The Sierra Club and living minimally
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2014, 04:13:57 PM »
Nice article.  I hope it reaches their members (who seem to all drive monster SUVs with just one person in them).  That's about as nice as I can be, I have a very negative view of the Sierra Club.

tracylayton

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Re: The Sierra Club and living minimally
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2014, 05:49:50 PM »
I don't know anything about the Sierra Club, but definitely liked the article!

nico demouse

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Re: The Sierra Club and living minimally
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2014, 07:50:30 AM »
Nice article.  I hope it reaches their members (who seem to all drive monster SUVs with just one person in them).  That's about as nice as I can be, I have a very negative view of the Sierra Club.

That's interesting. Around here (very active local club) the Sierrans are all the ones I see biking/walking places, shopping used, going to/hosting weatherizing/energy efficiency meetups, hosting free bookclubs at the library and so on. But we have a very active local club and I don't ever do outings (trips to other areas).

justajane

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Re: The Sierra Club and living minimally
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2014, 08:18:21 AM »
Nice article.  I hope it reaches their members (who seem to all drive monster SUVs with just one person in them).  That's about as nice as I can be, I have a very negative view of the Sierra Club.

Our local Sierra Club really created some bad blood in my community this past year when they renovated a historic building and removed original wooden cabinetry (this stuff was incredible) and basically transformed the beautiful space into a drab, soulless office space.

I guess their call to preserve doesn't apply to buildings.

Sid Hoffman

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Re: The Sierra Club and living minimally
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2014, 01:43:32 PM »
Our local Sierra Club really created some bad blood in my community this past year when they renovated a historic building and removed original wooden cabinetry (this stuff was incredible) and basically transformed the beautiful space into a drab, soulless office space.

I guess their call to preserve doesn't apply to buildings.

Yeah it's very much "it depends".  One of the local environmental groups here would go door to door spouting outright lies and what I can only describe as aggressive panhandling - except they are doing it at your front door - as a means of raising money.  Then of course they are out buying boats, paying execs to fly all over Europe, blowing money on absolute lost causes in politics and pretty anything except actually improving the environment and preserving open spaces.

Meanwhile the regular old city governments were the ones buying state trust land and doing the classifications needed to preserve open spaces without soliciting donations from people door to door.  It was shameful, really.  A lot of non-profits of every type are really just money machines operating under tax exemptions to great advantage of the powerful few at the top of each organization.  It's not all of them - in fact I'd say it's not even the majority, but it's plenty.

Beric01

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Re: The Sierra Club and living minimally
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2014, 03:41:37 PM »
I have a big problem with the Sierra Club (them supporting a candidate is basically an auto vote against them for me), and this is probably one of the first times I've agreed with them on a topic. I have to agree that it doesn't embody their members, though.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to be a minimalist without being a radical environmentalist.

Sid Hoffman

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Re: The Sierra Club and living minimally
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2014, 05:10:45 PM »
I think it's perfectly reasonable to be a minimalist without being a radical environmentalist.

Same, although I would also say that one can care very much about wildlife, clean air & water, and preservation of open spaces while also not being a radical environmentalist.  Heck, probably one of the first well known conservationist types in US history was Teddy Roosevelt and he avoided getting radical about it too.  I like that brand of conservationism where you are allowed to use resources so long as you are not abusing or exploiting them to extinction.  However it's always going to be a war between those who insist on seeing the world in black and white, where it's either "Humanity is a virus!" or it's "Free market above all else!"

Will

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Re: The Sierra Club and living minimally
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2014, 05:15:33 PM »
This is their mission:  To explore, enjoy, and protect the wild places of the earth; To practice and promote the responsible use of the earth's ecosystems and resources; To educate and enlist humanity to protect and restore the quality of the natural and human environment; and to use all lawful means to carry out these objectives.

Doesn't sound all that radical to me.

Beric01

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Re: The Sierra Club and living minimally
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2014, 10:29:36 PM »
I think it's perfectly reasonable to be a minimalist without being a radical environmentalist.

Same, although I would also say that one can care very much about wildlife, clean air & water, and preservation of open spaces while also not being a radical environmentalist.  Heck, probably one of the first well known conservationist types in US history was Teddy Roosevelt and he avoided getting radical about it too.  I like that brand of conservationism where you are allowed to use resources so long as you are not abusing or exploiting them to extinction.  However it's always going to be a war between those who insist on seeing the world in black and white, where it's either "Humanity is a virus!" or it's "Free market above all else!"

I agree. I support Roosevelt's ideals of conservationism. I think our national parks are great. I think the needs of humans need to be balanced with that of the environment, however, and IMO the Sierra Club goes WAY too far. This kind of radicalism has the definite ability to do serious harm (for example, the banning of all power except wind and solar).

This is their mission:  To explore, enjoy, and protect the wild places of the earth; To practice and promote the responsible use of the earth's ecosystems and resources; To educate and enlist humanity to protect and restore the quality of the natural and human environment; and to use all lawful means to carry out these objectives.

Doesn't sound all that radical to me.

HA! Anybody can say anything they want on a mission statement. I went to business school and we learned about the mission statement: it's a PR/marketing tool that need have little relation to what the organization actually believes or does. Rather than going into depth about the issues I have with them, I'll let this site do the job for me:

Quote
Founded in 1892 by John Muir to “make the mountains glad,” the Sierra Club is the oldest and arguably the most powerful environmental group in the nation. But its concerns are no longer limited to the happiness of the highlands. Once dedicated to conserving wilderness for future human enjoyment, the Sierra Club has become an anti-growth, anti-technology, anti-energy group that puts its utopian environmentalist vision before the well-being of humans.

Some of its leadership positions are held by activists with radical ties and even violent criminals. The Club has done well preserving a “mainstream” image, despite its increasingly radical bent. And with an annual budget of roughly $100 million, the organization has the money and power to push that radical agenda.

They're as bad as PETA: nature before humans. Somehow they forget humans ARE nature.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 10:32:37 PM by Beric01 »

zenyata

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Re: The Sierra Club and living minimally
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2014, 09:52:43 AM »
Always love the black and white broad brush for these "radical, dangerous, violent" environmentalists. 

Hilarious how those words are rarely used to describe the "growth uber alles" contingent which far outnumber the dreaded environmentalists by virtually any metric one cares to choose.

My experience has been they are generally composed of a bunch of normal people who don't want to see yet another woodlot or open space turned into a strip mall in the name of progress (typically while another semi-abandoned plaza sits right down the road).  And in the end the money usually wins and some minor concessions are made and a shiny new strip mall is up and running in a year or so...

I do very much like the attitude of the Center for Biodiversity whose director at the time had some notable run-ins with developers in the southwest.  He liked to ridicule their attitude of being "shocked !  just SHOCKED, I say !"  immediately acting as if they were some kind of victim when the Center spoke up against yet another huge tract of desert being bulldozed to accommodate sprawl.  The director of the Center at the time said that the developers had no qualms about taking 7 pieces of an 8 piece pie and reaching for the last piece and he wasn't afraid to stick a fork in their hand.

Of course it has been the likes of the Sierra Club and the Center for Biodiversity who have been telling anyone who would listen for years that the water situation was completely unsustainable in the southwest and lo and behold look where we are at now.  But they're just a bunch of violent radicals... hahaha... yep.

BlueMR2

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Re: The Sierra Club and living minimally
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2014, 10:08:21 AM »
My experience has been they are generally composed of a bunch of normal people who don't want to see yet another woodlot or open space turned into a strip mall in the name of progress (typically while another semi-abandoned plaza sits right down the road).  And in the end the money usually wins and some minor concessions are made and a shiny new strip mall is up and running in a year or so...

Sometimes they're the ones with money that want to pave over stuff too.  Sierra Club is the one that forced the road on Pike's Peak to be paved.  Sigh.

zenyata

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Re: The Sierra Club and living minimally
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2014, 10:44:38 AM »
Interesting story MR2 - wasn't aware of that one...  just read about it - nothing in depth but on the surface it's just kind of bizarre.  Again I don't necessarily think that preventing stream pollution, protecting sensitive habitats, wetlands etc. is something "radical and violent" or even against their mission statement.  But in the context of the side of the Rocky Mountains where orders of magnitude more rock is probably shed and deposited in these streams in a season than what was dumped and washed off the road it is admittedly very strange...

No pun intended but the "road to hell is paved with good intentions..." could certainly apply here but I still think there's a world of difference between advocating paving a road to prevent impacting watersheds and paving huge areas of desert / farmland etc. so another set of temporary box stores can be built.

Of course in my cynical mind it probably boils down to some politicians and Sierra Club members both being somehow connected to someone who knows someone who has a paving business and "well wouldn't it be a great idea to pave that road !"...  I'm back east and that's how it would be if it were the NYC / NJ area - guaranteed...

bacchi

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Re: The Sierra Club and living minimally
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2014, 04:42:37 PM »
Interesting story MR2 - wasn't aware of that one...  just read about it - nothing in depth but on the surface it's just kind of bizarre.  Again I don't necessarily think that preventing stream pollution, protecting sensitive habitats, wetlands etc. is something "radical and violent" or even against their mission statement.  But in the context of the side of the Rocky Mountains where orders of magnitude more rock is probably shed and deposited in these streams in a season than what was dumped and washed off the road it is admittedly very strange...

Makes sense to me. Why waste the fuel and effort to haul gravel up a mountain each year? Why fill up alpine ponds with gravel from a road?

Quote from: wiki
Litigation was pursued by the Sierra Club in 1998-1999, on grounds of environmental damage from the gravel portion of the road.[6] The environmental damage was caused primarily by the 150,000,000 pounds (68,038,856 kg) of gravel that washes away annually. The same amount needed to be hauled up the mountain each year in order to maintain the road surface. Environmental damage includes alpine ponds and wetlands becoming filled with gravel, and layers of gravel averaging 2 feet (0.6 m) to 4 feet (1.2 m) feet deep covering the forest floor below.[7]

Of course, if they protested getting rid of the road entirely, they would've been radical eco-nuts. Since they accepted that the road was here to stay, and pushed for the best option, they're sell outs. Can't win.

theanimal

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Re: The Sierra Club and living minimally
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2014, 07:19:10 PM »
Well said, Zenyata. 

Just because they have an opposing view to the mainstream makes them radical?  Do you expect them to lay down to growth etc.?  Growth isn't necessarily good and more than often times its not, especially today. 

If you want to read about a real radical environmental group, search for Earth First!

For one, I consider them too conservative in their actions and phrases. The Sierra Club has grown to be more of a corporation, while still fighting for environmental issues they make way to many compromises.  They definitely have strayed from John Muir's original founding principles.  Yes, you could call me a very strong/radical environmentalist. 

 

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