The Financial Secrets of the Amish

[El Gringo]

Here's a great article about the financial habits of the Amish, their frugality, and their contentment:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-financial-secrets-of-the-amish-2014-05-06

[El Gringo]

"Dead horse smells bad, but debt smells even worse.”

Just before reading this I read a financial advice column where the guy was asking if he should refinance his mortgage to pay off $50,000 worth of credit card debt.....

[Cassie]

The only thing I do not like about the Amish is that they run the biggest, most horrible puppymills in the  country and are very brutal to the dogs.   No animal should be treated that way.  But they are frugal.

[sirdoug007]

I liked this quote right up front: "When the Great Recession hit, the Amish barely blinked. “They put aside 20% of their earnings — most of them were just fine,”

It's amazing how this one simple step of paying yourself first makes everything else easier!

[Cheddar Stacker]

I've often thought Mustachian ways are sort of Amish. Hang drying clothes, muscle over motor, mocking convenience and luxury. I'd have a lot of fun making wooden furniture and farming. Maybe I should be Amish?

[Milspecstache]

Awesome article:

"MW: What was the most surprising thing you learned?
LC: Culturally, they are leading the way with organic food sourcing, recycling and repurposing and thrift shopping."

Definitely MMM material.

[oldtoyota]

Here's a great article about the financial habits of the Amish, their frugality, and their contentment:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-financial-secrets-of-the-amish-2014-05-06

Once I found out the Amish run puppy mills, I no longer wanted anything to do with them. So glad they are content...

[minimalist]

They only put away 20%? That sucks by MMM standards.

[dragoncar]

The only thing I do not like about the Amish is that they run the biggest, most horrible puppymills in the  country and are very brutal to the dogs.   No animal should be treated that way.  But they are frugal.

Puts a new spin on the quote from the article:

"Dead horse smells bad, but debt smells even worse.”

[MsSindy]

Here's a great article about the financial habits of the Amish, their frugality, and their contentment:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-financial-secrets-of-the-amish-2014-05-06

Once I found out the Amish run puppy mills, I no longer wanted anything to do with them. So glad they are content...

Yes, puppy mills are a problem with the Amish for sure....but let's be fair, there are plenty of Amish that do not run puppy mills and there are plenty of people who are not Amish, that run puppy mills -- let's not paint and entire group of people with the same brush.

[soccerluvof4]

While i don't agree with the puppy mill thing which to be frank I didn't know about, I respect any society/nationality/race in which they don't blame others and support/survive there ways.

Side note:
I will have to read about this puppy mill thing I just don't want to relive the Micheal Vick shit all over again. How quickly we sometimes forgive when he should of got it a lot worse imho.

[Cassie]

7 years ago when I first heard that the Amish run the worst puppymills in the country I could not believe it.  But after researching it myself I have found it to be true and that also they are particularly cruel to the dogs.  Yes other horrible people run puppymills but the Amish have a lot of them.

[HairyUpperLip]

What are puppy mills?

[Mississippi Mudstache]

They only put away 20%? That sucks by MMM standards.

Yes, but the Amish aren't trying to retire early. I have no doubt they could save more if that was their goal.

[oldtoyota]

What are puppy mills?

This explains it with more detail than I would, so here you go!

http://www.aspca.org/fight-cruelty/puppy-mills/puppy-mill-faq

[oldtoyota]

Here's a great article about the financial habits of the Amish, their frugality, and their contentment:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-financial-secrets-of-the-amish-2014-05-06

Once I found out the Amish run puppy mills, I no longer wanted anything to do with them. So glad they are content...

Yes, puppy mills are a problem with the Amish for sure....but let's be fair, there are plenty of Amish that do not run puppy mills and there are plenty of people who are not Amish, that run puppy mills -- let's not paint and entire group of people with the same brush.

The Amish constitute a small interconnected group. If you are Amish, then you probably know someone running a puppy mill. You should get your family/neighbors to stop running the puppy mill and work in a decent trade instead.

I am also not fond of the Rumshpringa.

Overall, I am not going to admire the Amish for being supposedly frugal for the same reason the above poster is saying we should not hate them all due to puppy mills. Either way--whether you think positively or negatively--you are "painting them with the same brush" as a PP said.

They are just people.

[CommonCents]

As with many things, I find some things to admire.  In their case, I find there is a great deal to admire: self-sufficiency, ability to "make or make do" fixing things and their satisfaction and contentment with a quiet life.  I also think they have a few flaws such as rigidness, but it works for them.  (I never heard of puppy mills before and I'm not going to tar and feather a whole group for something a few do.)  I could probably learn a lot if I spent a summer with them.

[Cassie]

A few Amish do not run puppymills- many of them do.  Look it up on the internet yourself.  They are contributing to millions of dogs living in misery.   It is one of their major businesses.

[Quark]

They only put away 20%? That sucks by MMM standards.

I read a different article that says when a teenager gets a job, the parents give him 10% and use 90% for saving and household expenses. He gets most of the money back when he gets married.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

A few Amish do not run puppymills- many of them do.  Look it up on the internet yourself.

I was going to make a joke here, but you already made it. Thanks for the laugh!

[Cassie]

Try educating yourself on this matter before speaking. 

[HairyUpperLip]

Read the link, thanks!

Ahh, I can't hate the Amish for doing that. I have greater dislike towards the people that purchase the puppies from these mills then. That's the real problem imo.

[oldtoyota]

Read the link, thanks!

Ahh, I can't hate the Amish for doing that. I have greater dislike towards the people that purchase the puppies from these mills then. That's the real problem imo.

A lot of customers do not realize that is what they are doing when they buy a dog from a flea market or pet store. I don't blame the consumer in this regard. I blame the puppy mill business owner, the one reaping the profits and terrorizing the animals and proliferating disease and genetic conditions among animals.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

Yes, and I dislike terrorists, which I why I speak ill of all Muslims and refuse to consider that any of them may have admirable qualities. I question why Muslims who don't blow themselves and other up refuse to convince their Muslim terrorist friends to not be terrorists, which is another reason why I am suspicious of the entire group.

MOD NOTE: Lest anyone get offended, just wanted to note that this is sarcasm. see:

I questioned whether or not to post that last sarcastic rant.... I also try to be careful not to condemn entire groups based on the unfortunate actions of other members, regardless of how large or small that percentage may be.

[El Gringo]

This is not the first time that I've posted about a topic and it gets WAAAAYYY off track....

[Mississippi Mudstache]

I questioned whether or not to post that last sarcastic rant. I am not trying to come across as indifferent to animal suffering, but it was really not germane to the topic. For those who have difficulty interpreting sarcasm, allow me to state my actual opinion: I think that it is important as human beings to be able to see the good in others, regardless of whether or not all of their actions and ethics line up directly with our own. I also try to be careful not to condemn entire groups based on the unfortunate actions of other members, regardless of how large or small that percentage may be. I enjoyed the article and appreciated it. Thanks, El Gringo.

[eil]

This is not the first time that I've posted about a topic and it gets WAAAAYYY off track....

Welcome to the Internet. Are yuo new here? :)

[Ian]

While I'm not a particular fan of Amish communities, I do want to say we're painting with too broad of a brush. There are a lot of different groups that we label Amish, and they have a wide variety of positions in regard to frugality, use of technology, and things like puppy mills. It's prevalent in some communities, but there are large groups with completely different practices who would disagree with them. You can make some generalizations about all Amish, but not as many as people outside tend to think.

I am also not fond of the Rumshpringa.

Honest question: what is your objection? I think it's a flawed practice but I wouldn't have considered it objectionable.

[BarkingSquirrel]

To be fair, oldtoyota's link about the puppy mills says:

"Commercial dog breeding is very prevalent among Amish and Mennonite farmers, with pockets of Amish dog breeders found throughout the country . . ."

The article begins by drawing a distinction between "responsible dog breeders" and "puppy mills."  It sounds as if the proportion of each in the Amish population is similar to that in the general population (i.e., where there are more commercial dog breeders, there are more puppy mills, but also more responsible breeders).  There is no indication in the article that the Amish are particularly vicious in this regard.

[Cassie]

I am involved with puppymill rescue and I suggest you read further because yes on the East Coast they are the major offenders & are actually particularly cruel when it comes to dogs.

[Insanity]

And here I thought it was the Amish Mafia that led to the financial success...

[oldtoyota]

Yes, and I dislike terrorists, which I why I speak ill of all Muslims and refuse to consider that any of them may have admirable qualities. I question why Muslims who don't blow themselves and other up refuse to convince their Muslim terrorist friends to not be terrorists, which is another reason why I am suspicious of the entire group.

Some of you are making the point that we are painting with too broad of a brush. The same can be said of pointing out the Amish are frugal. That is no different than saying the Amish do something negative. I am sure many Muslims are also frugal.

[EMP]

Yes, and I dislike terrorists, which I why I speak ill of all Muslims and refuse to consider that any of them may have admirable qualities. I question why Muslims who don't blow themselves and other up refuse to convince their Muslim terrorist friends to not be terrorists, which is another reason why I am suspicious of the entire group.

Some of you are making the point that we are painting with too broad of a brush. The same can be said of pointing out the Amish are frugal. That is no different than saying the Amish do something negative. I am sure many Muslims are also frugal.

I'm sure many  Muslims (and Christians for that matter) eat puppies in other parts of the world.  Because of the different values systems. 

Just because you feel that an animal has a soul -or whatever- doesn't mean everyone feels that way.  Doesn't make them bad.  Just makes them different. 

[GuitarStv]

I'm fine with people eating puppies provided they're treated humanely prior to the eating.

[Cassie]

The point is that the dogs live their lives in very inhumane conditions that no animal should be subjected to.   Visit www.puppymillrescue.com for the stories/pictures of the life of a mill dog.

[EMP]

The point is that the dogs live their lives in very inhumane conditions that no animal should be subjected to.   Visit www.puppymillrescue.com for the stories/pictures of the life of a mill dog.

As dogs are not, in fact, human I can see where, in some cultures, it would not be viewed as immoral or cruel to treat them inhumanely. 

Doesn't mean I agree with it.  Just saying. 

[HairyUpperLip]

The point is that the dogs live their lives in very inhumane conditions that no animal should be subjected to.   Visit www.puppymillrescue.com for the stories/pictures of the life of a mill dog.

Maybe part of the problem is that so many people in America think dogs make great pets, when in fact most people can barely take care of themselves.

Having visited some 3rd world countries you can quickly see that most dogs are stray rodents on the same level as mice and rats. And at the same time, you will see a few people with some money and they'll have a dog that looks nicely groomed.

I don't really care too much about how the Amish are treating these dogs because the bigger problem (in my opinion) is that so many people buy dogs - regardless of the source - when they shouldn't even have them.

One of my friends has 2 dogs, was 3... and he works 16-17 hours a day.... Fuck, I feel so bad for his dogs. I think they'd be happier running wild. I've got another friend that has 2 dogs and he's gone for weeks at a time due to working on the road. Feel so bad for his dogs too.

[Cassie]

No doubt the irresponsible dog owners are also part of the problem.  But that does not make it ok for dogs to be treated so horribly.  Dogs are pack, companion animals and it would be better for them to be dead then to be treated like this.  People really need to read the stories & look at the pictures before deciding it is ok that they do this. Educate yourself.

[HairyUpperLip]

No doubt the irresponsible dog owners are also part of the problem.  But that does not make it ok for dogs to be treated so horribly.  Dogs are pack, companion animals and it would be better for them to be dead then to be treated like this.  People really need to read the stories & look at the pictures before deciding it is ok that they do this. Educate yourself.

I understand you are passionate about this and that's good - but honestly, I've already read too much with that one link. I don't care about dogs, I don't own dogs, I don't like dogs --- I don't kill dogs, I don't hurt dogs, I don't buy dogs.... I feel bad for dogs that are locked up all day, I feel bad for dogs that get abused, I feel bad for dogs that get neglected.

I can't do anything but continue to not buy dogs. I can read all over the internet about it, but I'm not going to take up arms and fight for the dogs rights or anything.

[CommonCents]

This has gone pretty defiantly off topic...  I think it'd be great to rein it back in and if needed, create a separate thread for puppy mills if you have a beef to grind about them rather than continue to discuss them here.

[Thegoblinchief]

I thought the ARTICLE was interesting and put the book on my to-read list.

I won't read it for a while, though, seeing as I've had a major dose of 19th century living by reading the Laura Ingalls Wilder books with my girls.

[oldtoyota]

No doubt the irresponsible dog owners are also part of the problem.  But that does not make it ok for dogs to be treated so horribly.  Dogs are pack, companion animals and it would be better for them to be dead then to be treated like this.  People really need to read the stories & look at the pictures before deciding it is ok that they do this. Educate yourself.

I understand you are passionate about this and that's good - but honestly, I've already read too much with that one link. I don't care about dogs, I don't own dogs, I don't like dogs --- I don't kill dogs, I don't hurt dogs, I don't buy dogs.... I feel bad for dogs that are locked up all day, I feel bad for dogs that get abused, I feel bad for dogs that get neglected.

I can't do anything but continue to not buy dogs. I can read all over the internet about it, but I'm not going to take up arms and fight for the dogs rights or anything.

Welcome to the internet. ;-)

[mm1970]

The only thing I do not like about the Amish is that they run the biggest, most horrible puppymills in the  country and are very brutal to the dogs.   No animal should be treated that way.  But they are frugal.

THey are very hard on their horses also.

[Cheddar Stacker]

The only thing I do not like about the Amish is that they run the biggest, most horrible puppymills in the  country and are very brutal to the dogs.   No animal should be treated that way.  But they are frugal.

THey are very hard on their horses also.

I'm not saying I agree with this treatment at all, but look at this from their perspective for a moment. Dogs are nothing more than inventory, and horses are nothing more than equipment/tools.

As a business owner you protect your inventory from theft and spoilage but that's about it. As someone who relies on equipment you should treat your tools with respect, but you work them until they breakdown.

I love animals, but as hairyupperlip said, some people just don't.

[Albert]

I'm sure the same attitude was prevalent among our own ancestors as recently as 100 years ago. Amish just are particularly resistive to any change.

[Cassie]

I agree that we should treat all animals humanely including the ones we are going to eat.  Did you ever try to make a indoor pet out of a pig or cow?  Let me know how that works out.  My Dad had to feed the pigs growing up & he talked about how you had to be very careful not to fall in the pig pen because they would gang up on you and kill you.  Not many dogs/cats will do that.

[mm1970]

The only thing I do not like about the Amish is that they run the biggest, most horrible puppymills in the  country and are very brutal to the dogs.   No animal should be treated that way.  But they are frugal.

THey are very hard on their horses also.

I'm not saying I agree with this treatment at all, but look at this from their perspective for a moment. Dogs are nothing more than inventory, and horses are nothing more than equipment/tools.

As a business owner you protect your inventory from theft and spoilage but that's about it. As someone who relies on equipment you should treat your tools with respect, but you work them until they breakdown.

I love animals, but as hairyupperlip said, some people just don't.

Well, I understand that conceptually, but my stepfather "adopted" a horse that the Amish had worn down, almost to death, so it's a personal issue for me.

[Cassie]

A horse is not a machine that you can wear down.  All living being need humane treatment. So glad your stepdad adopted that horse!

[Mrs.FamilyFinances]

No doubt the irresponsible dog owners are also part of the problem.  But that does not make it ok for dogs to be treated so horribly.  Dogs are pack, companion animals and it would be better for them to be dead then to be treated like this.  People really need to read the stories & look at the pictures before deciding it is ok that they do this. Educate yourself.

I understand you are passionate about this and that's good - but honestly, I've already read too much with that one link. I don't care about dogs, I don't own dogs, I don't like dogs --- I don't kill dogs, I don't hurt dogs, I don't buy dogs.... I feel bad for dogs that are locked up all day, I feel bad for dogs that get abused, I feel bad for dogs that get neglected.

I can't do anything but continue to not buy dogs. I can read all over the internet about it, but I'm not going to take up arms and fight for the dogs rights or anything.

I couldn't agree more.