Author Topic: The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon  (Read 5905 times)

luchorpan

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The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon
« on: March 25, 2022, 08:59:24 AM »
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/10/why-financial-confessionals-viral/600358/

Not terribly explicit about financial independence, but it calls out the absurd spending of the viral budgets.

roomtempmayo

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Re: The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2022, 11:25:31 AM »
Interesting article, but I'm still a little confused about the process by which these "confessionals" get written and published.  The article promises an explanation, but it presents a jumbled mess of actors.

Quote
Such financial confessionals are the radioactive material formed when social media and inequality collide—latter-day late-capitalist hate-reads consumed by an always online generation saddled with debt, and produced by or for members of an upper crust insistent that they are in fact middle-class.

Who is the publisher?  Who are the authors?  And who is the audience?

I think I'm inferring that there are two audiences.  There are the top 10%ers who want to be affirmed in feeling similarly strapped.  And then there are the hate readers.

But who really are the authors, and what in the world motivates them to post these budgets when they know the blowback that will come?

Are the authors being recruited or somehow affirmed by the sites?

I've never understood how people who are smart enough to make big money are simultaneously dumb enough to put their bad behavior out there for ridicule.  I can't help but wonder if the real beneficiaries are the platforms, journalists, and/or publications carrying the stories.

Also, I just can't let this conclusion go without comment:

Quote
Dogen, for his part, believes that saving needs to hurt to work. “Anybody who has gotten braces or who has lifted weights understands this concept,” he says. “If the amount of money you’re saving each month doesn’t hurt a little, you’re not saving enough.”

Winning the money game and being financially free means precisely that it's not hard anymore.  Money is abundant rather than scarce.  The point isn't to work hard at money, the point is to hardly give it a thought.

ixtap

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Re: The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2022, 11:37:53 AM »


Quote
Dogen, for his part, believes that saving needs to hurt to work. “Anybody who has gotten braces or who has lifted weights understands this concept,” he says. “If the amount of money you’re saving each month doesn’t hurt a little, you’re not saving enough.”

Winning the money game and being financially free means precisely that it's not hard anymore.  Money is abundant rather than scarce.  The point isn't to work hard at money, the point is to hardly give it a thought.

Soy un perdedor...

I don't remember the last time I stressed about anything beyond getting enough money in the right place in the most tax efficient way. But hey, unlike Sam, I don't need to spend a couple hundred thousand a year to be comfortable and consider myself middle class.

And I HATE my invisalign braces. Can't wait until my teeth are stable again :(
« Last Edit: March 26, 2022, 07:53:10 AM by ixtap »

luchorpan

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Re: The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2022, 05:44:56 AM »
Hm, I take your point but I do think Dogen’s point stands when aimed at this crowd. If someone has never cut back on spending and starts trying to, it will be noticeable. And if they’re accustomed to thinking that takeout, vacations, and house cleaners are necessary, they will interpret what they notice as negative or painful - socially, psychologically, what have you. You eventually get somewhat used to braces, but they definitely suck at first.

SwordGuy

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Re: The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2022, 12:20:11 PM »
I think Dogen is (and has been for some years) a clickbait whore.   Don't patronize his website or articles.


luchorpan

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Re: The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2022, 12:58:38 PM »
Clearly, if his site is the one publishing the 6-digit paycheck to paycheck budgets!

ducky19

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Re: The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2022, 09:08:38 AM »
I think Dogen is (and has been for some years) a clickbait whore.   Don't patronize his website or articles.

Well said, wish he would just go away already.

lifeisshort123

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Re: The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2022, 03:47:26 AM »
I think these people need to get a grip on economic reality.  To me, one of the most important lessons anyone can take from the FIRE lifestyle is simply "Money will not buy you happiness".  It seems no matter what amount of money people are earning, they always feel like they are not the "truly wealthy ones".  I have been around extremely high earning individuals, as well as some that are extremely high net-worth individuals.  Many of their conversations devolve into comments about how the condo building their friend lives at is so much nicer, or they only have x number of acres, but their friend has a large sprawling ranch, or in another case, "well, I'm not one of the billionaires, and so life is kind of hard" said without irony.

If you are someone who is stuck on the consumption hamster wheel, I can see how these things could be difficult.  If you are someone who has always saved, even a little, as your income grows you get excited by seeing "just how much" you can put away this year.  I have done that for a while, and still have the ability to frankly waste plenty of money on things that i do not need, but I find enjoyable (be it new furniture, a trip, a nice meal out now and then, etc.).  I have yet to meet someone who said to me the one thing that made me happier than anything else in the world was buying that Louis Vuitton bag.  Typically, what I hear his more along the lines of "Oh, I love this bag.  I saw how everyone else had one for years, and I just felt I had to have it". 

That said, as income inequality increases, these issues are going to become exacerbated.  The family with two $150k earners can much more easily afford childcare costs to be "deducted" from their earnings than the family with a say $60k earner and a $45k earner.  The lower income household might decide they are better off reducing their earnings and having the $45k earner stay home and raise the kids, or adopt a part time schedule so they can be home as soon as they are back from school when they are at that age.  Whether they "farm out the work" of raising the kids, or they have one of the earners work less or not at all, they are costing themselves a significant amount of $$s in their wealth building journey.

To me, the article just affirms how much the "middle class" lifestyle has changed.  As long as housing costs, automobile costs, HEALTHCARE costs, and child rearing expenses and college tuition are extremely unaffordable for the middle class, people are going to struggle. 

StockBeard

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Re: The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2022, 07:37:27 PM »
I think Dogen is (and has been for some years) a clickbait whore.   Don't patronize his website or articles.

Well said, wish he would just go away already.
100% this. That guy has been making a killing on clickbait. He found the perfect niche: he attracts rich people who feel justified in their outrageous spending, and frugal (but rich) people who will rage comment. In both cases, he gets traffic from a wealthy audience, some of which, ultimately, will buy his products and/or click his ads. Nothing better than a blog that brings wealthy individuals.

lifeisshort123

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Re: The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2022, 02:46:18 PM »
I find his approach is way beyond what I can do.  I read an article that basically explained if you are not earning around $125k single or $250k jointly you aren’t doing life correctly.  (Oversimplification of course)….

First of all, there is a huge difference between $125k single and $250k jointly - particularly in terms of housing costs, ability to put money aside for savings, etc. and there’s also a very different lifestyle for $250k with 2 kids and $125k with none.

But more importantly, his articles reek of smugness and arrogance.  “I have all the answers…. Here’s how to be rich…. All the smart people do this and that.”  It’s very not for me.  How much money you have or make has nothing to do with your value. 

Also, some families may prioritize other things than exactly how many dollars are being made from moment to moment.  I think MMM balances this idea much better.  Don’t get rich just to “feel rich”.  Get rich to make your life more the way you want to live out your values.

theninthwall

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Re: The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2023, 07:09:44 AM »
Resurrecting this thread to note that the current top post on Reddit is the "couple making $500k who still feel average." (https://old.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/14kwbrv/not_sufficient_you_say/) And yet again it's Financial Samurai as the source. The original article is on CNBC (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/06/budget-breakdown-of-a-couple-that-makes-500000-a-year-but-cant-save.html).

The supposedly real couple are anonymous and happen to have the exact same age, income and occupation. Hmmm...

I could just wave off these articles as the clickbait they are, but I think they do real damage to the idea that you can actually get ahead - especially as your income grows. Instead, people who read these stories are inclined to think, "Well, I can't possibly get rich no matter what I do. I'll just spend everything now to feel better."

Fomerly known as something

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Re: The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2023, 09:25:00 PM »
Along a similar line.  I’ve seen the Mindy/Carl article in a lot of places.  In my wore wealthy FIRE Facebook group, there was of course a comment how $4.3 million is nothing.  At least there were other posters that pointed out, um you are out of touch that is in the top 2% of NW in the US.  The objector didn’t seem to get it and tried to say for 2 people it’s peanuts maybe if it was per person.

LennStar

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Re: The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2023, 05:10:39 AM »
There was an article here in Germany a few days ago about how most of the people consider themselves middle class - famously a top politician, but also many who are objectivly considered poor (less than 60% of median income).

btw. This single here is not much above that even while living in a "luxuriously" big appartment and saving 50% of income in a very good month.
I do live in a very LCOL area and don't do a lot of stuff that costs money, but that partly is a conscious decision.
I definitely do not feel poor. I could go to 30 hour workweek and would not feel poor, albeit I certainly would be under the threshhold then (actually earning a little bit under what a 40h week on minimum wage pays) while still saving 10%-20%.

SotI

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Re: The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2023, 02:24:52 PM »
US incomes look totally crazy to me. Income-wise, I am roughly within the top 5% range here, but I would probably be considered lower middle-class income in US terms.
Ofc, medical insurance and state's pensions are a given here in Central/Western Europe, but those US incomes are really ... "wow"  for me.

Shows how relative these things are.

LennStar

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Re: The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2023, 04:59:49 AM »
US incomes look totally crazy to me. Income-wise, I am roughly within the top 5% range here, but I would probably be considered lower middle-class income in US terms.
Ofc, medical insurance and state's pensions are a given here in Central/Western Europe, but those US incomes are really ... "wow"  for me.

Shows how relative these things are.
The thing is that if you figure in all factors, you are financially better off in Europe if you haven't a large income than in the US.

The Black Forest Family (they just renamed yesterday to something else bc it's less about family now) has done several good videos about it,
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=black+forest+family+cost+of+living
I am not sure which if those is the one I have in mind, it was the "McJob" one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOSmljZNUA0&pp=ygUiYmxhY2sgZm9yZXN0IGZhbWlseSBjb3N0IG9mIGxpdmluZw%3D%3D

And of course that also ignores some really expensive medical stuff.

Metalcat

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Re: The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2023, 05:15:37 AM »
US incomes look totally crazy to me. Income-wise, I am roughly within the top 5% range here, but I would probably be considered lower middle-class income in US terms.
Ofc, medical insurance and state's pensions are a given here in Central/Western Europe, but those US incomes are really ... "wow"  for me.

Shows how relative these things are.

It's apples to oranges though, and you also have to remember that it's a very small minority with those massive salaries.

I'm in Canada, and when I read about average salaries in many US areas it's shocking how low they are. And with everything they need to pay for, it's disturbing.

GilesMM

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Re: The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2023, 05:45:34 AM »
US incomes look totally crazy to me. Income-wise, I am roughly within the top 5% range here, but I would probably be considered lower middle-class income in US terms.
Ofc, medical insurance and state's pensions are a given here in Central/Western Europe, but those US incomes are really ... "wow"  for me.

Shows how relative these things are.


You mean like delivery driver's with nothing more than a driving license earning $170,000/yr?


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ups-drivers-170000-pay-benefits-compensation/

ixtap

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Re: The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2023, 07:01:24 AM »
US incomes look totally crazy to me. Income-wise, I am roughly within the top 5% range here, but I would probably be considered lower middle-class income in US terms.
Ofc, medical insurance and state's pensions are a given here in Central/Western Europe, but those US incomes are really ... "wow"  for me.

Shows how relative these things are.


You mean like delivery driver's with nothing more than a driving license earning $170,000/yr?


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ups-drivers-170000-pay-benefits-compensation/

That includes compensation benefits, which is rarely included in total compensation calculations. It is so hard to compare health insurance from one group to another.

Last I checked, only about 6% of workers earn over the SS max each year. Don't let the outliers distract you.

lilkidjesus

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Re: The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2023, 11:08:16 AM »
US incomes look totally crazy to me. Income-wise, I am roughly within the top 5% range here, but I would probably be considered lower middle-class income in US terms.
Ofc, medical insurance and state's pensions are a given here in Central/Western Europe, but those US incomes are really ... "wow"  for me.

Shows how relative these things are.


You mean like delivery driver's with nothing more than a driving license earning $170,000/yr?


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ups-drivers-170000-pay-benefits-compensation/

That includes compensation benefits, which is rarely included in total compensation calculations. It is so hard to compare health insurance from one group to another.

Last I checked, only about 6% of workers earn over the SS max each year. Don't let the outliers distract you.

My brother has driven long haul for UPS for 15+ years and has never made $170k. He found these articles to be very misleading and not helpful (as that number includes, as ixtap said, payments into pension, healthcare, etc.). Not to mention that he is only home 3 days per week. He is in one of their trucks one way or another (driving or sleeping while someone else drives) for ~100 hours per week, which is also far from representative of a "normal" American job.

JLee

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Re: The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2023, 11:34:53 AM »
US incomes look totally crazy to me. Income-wise, I am roughly within the top 5% range here, but I would probably be considered lower middle-class income in US terms.
Ofc, medical insurance and state's pensions are a given here in Central/Western Europe, but those US incomes are really ... "wow"  for me.

Shows how relative these things are.


You mean like delivery driver's with nothing more than a driving license earning $170,000/yr?


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ups-drivers-170000-pay-benefits-compensation/

Did you read your own link?  $170k is five years from now, and is total comp (not salary).


GilesMM

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Re: The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2023, 11:42:52 AM »
US incomes look totally crazy to me. Income-wise, I am roughly within the top 5% range here, but I would probably be considered lower middle-class income in US terms.
Ofc, medical insurance and state's pensions are a given here in Central/Western Europe, but those US incomes are really ... "wow"  for me.

Shows how relative these things are.


You mean like delivery driver's with nothing more than a driving license earning $170,000/yr?


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ups-drivers-170000-pay-benefits-compensation/

Did you read your own link?  $170k is five years from now, and is total comp (not salary).
 


Nit picking. 

JLee

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Re: The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2023, 11:44:17 AM »
US incomes look totally crazy to me. Income-wise, I am roughly within the top 5% range here, but I would probably be considered lower middle-class income in US terms.
Ofc, medical insurance and state's pensions are a given here in Central/Western Europe, but those US incomes are really ... "wow"  for me.

Shows how relative these things are.


You mean like delivery driver's with nothing more than a driving license earning $170,000/yr?


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ups-drivers-170000-pay-benefits-compensation/

Did you read your own link?  $170k is five years from now, and is total comp (not salary).
 


Nit picking.

$170k today was $139,644.90 five years ago.

If $30k is "nitpicking" to you, you have a lot more room in your budget than I do.

obstinate

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Re: The $350k “just scraping by” budget phenomenon
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2023, 09:46:16 AM »
I am skeptical about these budgets. I think at least half of them are just made up for clicks. Journalists who credulously accept these things at face value are motivated in their lack of skepticism, because they're chasing those clicks too.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!