The $20K house

[Poundwise]

Don't know if this has been profiled here before, but this sounds really awesome:

"After designing an incredibly cheap home, the 20K Initiative is now working with Fannie Mae and others to redesign mortgages and the other factors that make home ownership so expensive. "
http://www.ruralstudio.org/initiatives/20k-house
https://www.fastcompany.com/90204757/they-built-a-20k-house-now-they-want-to-fix-the-housing-system

[soccerluvof4]

There are definitely areas that need low or more affordable costs of living. The one thing the article didn't touch on or I missed it was running power etc... to the homes as well as the cost of the land. Also If the land isn't near anything then is the housing affordable if you cant get anywhere.

[ATMD]

The information that we got from the article is that Fannie Mae tries to use a holistic approach to supply low cost housing by connecting different stakeholders involved; the lenders, the buyers, the contractors etc

It seems like the current housing situation is completely disconnected, a holistic approach to align objectives and incentives seems like a great idea to me.

[zolotiyeruki]

Even if you ignore the cost of the land, at least in our town, just the building permits and utility hookups will exceed $20k.

If you're looking for inexpensive housing, I think multi unit buildings are going to be a lot more efficient than any standalone house.

[Poundwise]

Even if you ignore the cost of the land, at least in our town, just the building permits and utility hookups will exceed $20k.

If you're looking for inexpensive housing, I think multi unit buildings are going to be a lot more efficient than any standalone house.

Absolutely. But their goal was to design an affordable single-family home, and though it sounds like the $20K price cap for materials was too difficult to hold for long, still a worthy quest! 

And they have some interesting ideas.

If the house is efficient enough to save someone $25 a month on energy bills, for example, and the bank offering a home loan knew that, it could bring a house within reach of someone living in poverty. “In a conventional mortgage product, for every dollar you can increase your monthly mortgage payment, you can buy about $200 of additional construction that you otherwise couldn’t afford,” says Smith. “So suddenly that $25 that doesn’t seem like much just became $5,000 of added construction cost that you can finance at no additional cost to you . . . The problem is, is that the primary lender has no way to know that.” By connecting various organizations involved in housing, these types of savings can emerge.

I think this sounds like it could be a good thing, by baking in the long-term advantages of an energy efficient house into an up-front advantage.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

It doesn't really look like a 20k house I'd say. I mean, it seems to me that it should be cheaper a bit at least.

You haven't spent much time buying building materials, have you? It's damn near a miracle to build a dwelling that resembles anything like modern living for under 20 grand.

[nereo]

It doesn't really look like a 20k house I'd say. I mean, it seems to me that it should be cheaper a bit at least.

You haven't spent much time buying building materials, have you? It's damn near a miracle to build a dwelling that resembles anything like modern living for under 20 grand.

Pretty much what I thought.  My friend built a 'bare-bones' 2 bedroom summer cabin in the woods with stick-frame construction and the cost of plywood + studs + roofing material (basic shingles) was over $20k.  Add in two exterior doors, some windows, vinyl siding, insulation/housewrap, and services and you're at $50k in materials for a very small, very rustic/not-fancy basic structure.  That's all before you get to finishing it with stuff like flooring, drywall, cabinets, appliances and fixtures.

Most new homes cost between $150-225/sqft, which means even a 'tiny' 500 sqft house will cost at least $75k.  Doing it for $20k is mindboggling (and part of the reason why the project still hasn't hit that mark).

[Mississippi Mudstache]

It doesn't really look like a 20k house I'd say. I mean, it seems to me that it should be cheaper a bit at least.

You haven't spent much time buying building materials, have you? It's damn near a miracle to build a dwelling that resembles anything like modern living for under 20 grand.

Pretty much what I thought.  My friend built a 'bare-bones' 2 bedroom summer cabin in the woods with stick-frame construction and the cost of plywood + studs + roofing material (basic shingles) was over $20k.  Add in two exterior doors, some windows, vinyl siding, insulation/housewrap, and services and you're at $50k in materials for a very small, very rustic/not-fancy basic structure.  That's all before you get to finishing it with stuff like flooring, drywall, cabinets, appliances and fixtures.

Most new homes cost between $150-225/sqft, which means even a 'tiny' 500 sqft house will cost at least $75k.  Doing it for $20k is mindboggling (and part of the reason why the project still hasn't hit that mark).

Exactly. I'm currently in the midst of building a modest, 400-sq. ft. workshop for woodworking. I sawed every stick of lumber myself on a portable sawmill. I mixed the concrete for the foundation by hand, with gravel and sand that I sourced for free (only had to buy cement). I built the doors. I bought the windows used for $200. My only real costs so far are screws, nails and other hardware, sheet metal for the roof, plywood sheathing, house wrap, and electrical supplies. No insulation (yet), no plumbing, no appliances, no air conditioning. Bare studs. I've spent about $4,000 already. It's ridiculous. I can't imagine building this damn thing if I had to actually pay for the lumber, much less pay for someone to to the carpentry. It would cost $30,000, bare minimum. A functioning house for 20 grand is insanely cheap.

[nereo]

It doesn't really look like a 20k house I'd say. I mean, it seems to me that it should be cheaper a bit at least.

You haven't spent much time buying building materials, have you? It's damn near a miracle to build a dwelling that resembles anything like modern living for under 20 grand.

Pretty much what I thought.  My friend built a 'bare-bones' 2 bedroom summer cabin in the woods with stick-frame construction and the cost of plywood + studs + roofing material (basic shingles) was over $20k.  Add in two exterior doors, some windows, vinyl siding, insulation/housewrap, and services and you're at $50k in materials for a very small, very rustic/not-fancy basic structure.  That's all before you get to finishing it with stuff like flooring, drywall, cabinets, appliances and fixtures.

Most new homes cost between $150-225/sqft, which means even a 'tiny' 500 sqft house will cost at least $75k.  Doing it for $20k is mindboggling (and part of the reason why the project still hasn't hit that mark).

Exactly. I'm currently in the midst of building a modest, 400-sq. ft. workshop for woodworking. I sawed every stick of lumber myself on a portable sawmill. I mixed the concrete for the foundation by hand, with gravel and sand that I sourced for free (only had to buy cement). I built the doors. I bought the windows used for $200. My only real costs so far are screws, nails and other hardware, sheet metal for the roof, plywood sheathing, house wrap, and electrical supplies. No insulation (yet), no plumbing, no appliances, no air conditioning. Bare studs. I've spent about $4,000 already. It's ridiculous. I can't imagine building this damn thing if I had to actually pay for the lumber, much less pay for someone to to the carpentry. It would cost $30,000, bare minimum. A functioning house for 20 grand is insanely cheap.

I want to do exactly what you describe, though I lack a portable sawmill.  How much experience did you have before you started this project?

[Mississippi Mudstache]

I want to do exactly what you describe, though I lack a portable sawmill.  How much experience did you have before you started this project?

The portable sawmill is a huge money-saver, but it's also a huge time-suck. I don't care to count up the hours I spent felling and dragging trees, sawing and stacking lumber, and maintaining the mill. It's another hobby altogether, so we'll just ignore that and assume you're working with store-bought lumber.

I have quite a lot of experience with carpentry and woodworking. I grew up on a small farm where we built lots of barns and sheds. I've also renovated a couple of houses and done some volunteering with a Habitat for Humanity-type organization. But I really don't think a huge amount of experience is necessary to do a decent job of it. I would strongly suggest using plans and watching YouTube videos if you're coming at it with no experience. The plans will really help you visualize how things go together. Start with something small, like an 8X10 storage shed, and work your way up. You will learn a lot just by using the tools and making a few mistakes (best to make your mistakes on a smaller project).

Don't worry about how long things take at first - just focus on doing a good job, and the speed will come as you're always anticipating the next step. And if you have a good friend who is a decent carpenter, maybe a nice bribe of of a few cases of craft beer would help. Learning from someone one-on-one is invaluable. I once dated a girl whose father was a seasoned home-builder. I learned more in a weekend from him that I could from a decade of This Old House. Really would have loved to spend six months on one of his job sites.

[nereo]

I want to do exactly what you describe, though I lack a portable sawmill.  How much experience did you have before you started this project?

The portable sawmill is a huge money-saver, but it's also a huge time-suck. I don't care to count up the hours I spent felling and dragging trees, sawing and stacking lumber, and maintaining the mill. It's another hobby altogether, so we'll just ignore that and assume you're working with store-bought lumber.

I have quite a lot of experience with carpentry and woodworking. I grew up on a small farm where we built lots of barns and sheds. I've also renovated a couple of houses and done some volunteering with a Habitat for Humanity-type organization. But I really don't think a huge amount of experience is necessary to do a decent job of it. I would strongly suggest using plans and watching YouTube videos if you're coming at it with no experience. The plans will really help you visualize how things go together. Start with something small, like an 8X10 storage shed, and work your way up. You will learn a lot just by using the tools and making a few mistakes (best to make your mistakes on a smaller project).

Don't worry about how long things take at first - just focus on doing a good job, and the speed will come as you're always anticipating the next step. And if you have a good friend who is a decent carpenter, maybe a nice bribe of of a few cases of craft beer would help. Learning from someone one-on-one is invaluable. I once dated a girl whose father was a seasoned home-builder. I learned more in a weekend from him that I could from a decade of This Old House. Really would have loved to spend six months on one of his job sites.

Cool, thanks.  FWIW I have some level of experience - volunteer for Rebuilding Together (much like Habitat for Humanity) and have built some basic furniture & shop cabinets and a long list of home remodeling projects (tiling, flooring, drywall).
Besides wanting my own dedicated woodshop, I like the idea of building a shed-like structure because - hey, if i mess up it's not my main house.  All the steps are there (foundation, stick-framing, siding etc.) but at a fraction of the material cost and complexity of a whole-home build. plus, as you suggested I'd follow modify some of the existing plans available readily available.  In my current dream-sketch stage it's a 10x16.  We'll see if it happens, though - currently in a rental before we move into what we hope will be our permanent house this spring.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

I want to do exactly what you describe, though I lack a portable sawmill.  How much experience did you have before you started this project?

The portable sawmill is a huge money-saver, but it's also a huge time-suck. I don't care to count up the hours I spent felling and dragging trees, sawing and stacking lumber, and maintaining the mill. It's another hobby altogether, so we'll just ignore that and assume you're working with store-bought lumber.

I have quite a lot of experience with carpentry and woodworking. I grew up on a small farm where we built lots of barns and sheds. I've also renovated a couple of houses and done some volunteering with a Habitat for Humanity-type organization. But I really don't think a huge amount of experience is necessary to do a decent job of it. I would strongly suggest using plans and watching YouTube videos if you're coming at it with no experience. The plans will really help you visualize how things go together. Start with something small, like an 8X10 storage shed, and work your way up. You will learn a lot just by using the tools and making a few mistakes (best to make your mistakes on a smaller project).

Don't worry about how long things take at first - just focus on doing a good job, and the speed will come as you're always anticipating the next step. And if you have a good friend who is a decent carpenter, maybe a nice bribe of of a few cases of craft beer would help. Learning from someone one-on-one is invaluable. I once dated a girl whose father was a seasoned home-builder. I learned more in a weekend from him that I could from a decade of This Old House. Really would have loved to spend six months on one of his job sites.

Cool, thanks.  FWIW I have some level of experience - volunteer for Rebuilding Together (much like Habitat for Humanity) and have built some basic furniture & shop cabinets and a long list of home remodeling projects (tiling, flooring, drywall).
Besides wanting my own dedicated woodshop, I like the idea of building a shed-like structure because - hey, if i mess up it's not my main house.  All the steps are there (foundation, stick-framing, siding etc.) but at a fraction of the material cost and complexity of a whole-home build. plus, as you suggested I'd follow modify some of the existing plans available readily available.  In my current dream-sketch stage it's a 10x16.  We'll see if it happens, though - currently in a rental before we move into what we hope will be our permanent house this spring.

Good luck. Sounds as though you have plenty of experience to build your own shop. My workshop is 16x24, with a 12x16 loft, so a bit bigger than what you have in mind. If I could make one suggestion, I would strongly suggest making your workshop two feet wider - so, 12x16. I've worked in both a 10x20 workshop and a 12x16 workshop, and of the two, the 12x16 workshop was wayyy better, despite the (slightly) smaller footprint. Those extra two feet of elbow room really make a difference for positioning tools, a workbench, and shelves and still having room to maneuver.

[nereo]

Thanks for the advice.  I'll keep it in mind.  I suppose I should stop jacking this thread further with my plans.

[Prairie Stash]

Thanks for the advice.  I'll keep it in mind.  I suppose I should stop jacking this thread further with my plans.

If you're thinking about milling your own lumber, you can also just buy it from someone doing it already. Buying direct from a small mill will generally undercut the lumber yard. On our sawmill the best money was in large dimension lumber (16' 2x10"). On the other side one of the best sellers was the 1x4 strapping; people loved that stuff for installing under tin roofing.

If you live in a rural area, small mills are great sources of cheap firewood as well.

We (family business) were also were contracted to come onto peoples land and turn standing trees into lumber (chainsaw, skidder, mill). If you look around there are alternatives to lumber yards.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

Thanks for the advice.  I'll keep it in mind.  I suppose I should stop jacking this thread further with my plans.

If you're thinking about milling your own lumber, you can also just buy it from someone doing it already. Buying direct from a small mill will generally undercut the lumber yard. On our sawmill the best money was in large dimension lumber (16' 2x10"). On the other side one of the best sellers was the 1x4 strapping; people loved that stuff for installing under tin roofing.

If you live in a rural area, small mills are great sources of cheap firewood as well.

We (family business) were also were contracted to come onto peoples land and turn standing trees into lumber (chainsaw, skidder, mill). If you look around there are alternatives to lumber yards.

Hello to a fellow sawyer. Your family business sounds similar to what my dad does as a retirement job. He does custom sawing for customers who have their own logs, and also cuts and mills a lot of green pine from his 20-acre property. His best "value" is always the 1x stuff. People buy tons of 1x12s, 1x10s, etc for board-and batten siding. If you price 1x stuff at the lumberyard, you'll immediately see the value. Usually the 1x material starts at $1.20/BF and goes up from there with additional length and width. He sells it green and roughsawn for $0.50/BF (and that's really what people want for B&B siding). The 2x stuff can be a good deal as well, especially for long/wide lumber, but it typically runs from $0.60-$1.00/BF depending on what you're buying. So the value is there, but not quite so much as the 1x lumber.

Oh, and you're right about the firewood. He'll sell all the oak slabs you can load onto your vehicle for $20. Or free, if you show up on a good day and he's looking to get rid of it :)

[ChpBstrd]

It doesn't really look like a 20k house I'd say. I mean, it seems to me that it should be cheaper a bit at least.

You haven't spent much time buying building materials, have you? It's damn near a miracle to build a dwelling that resembles anything like modern living for under 20 grand.

Pretty much what I thought.  My friend built a 'bare-bones' 2 bedroom summer cabin in the woods with stick-frame construction and the cost of plywood + studs + roofing material (basic shingles) was over $20k.  Add in two exterior doors, some windows, vinyl siding, insulation/housewrap, and services and you're at $50k in materials for a very small, very rustic/not-fancy basic structure.  That's all before you get to finishing it with stuff like flooring, drywall, cabinets, appliances and fixtures.

Most new homes cost between $150-225/sqft, which means even a 'tiny' 500 sqft house will cost at least $75k.  Doing it for $20k is mindboggling (and part of the reason why the project still hasn't hit that mark).

Manufactured homes have been hitting close to those numbers for years, particularly if you get a "tiny" one that is still twice the size of a "tiny home". Obviously, the cost of land, hauling, and utility connections set a floor on the total cost. However, the materials are cheaper because they were bought wholesale and in bulk by the manufacturer. Construction labor is also cheaper because assembly lines are so much more efficient than job sites.

If you buy used or foreclosed, you get a fat discount on top of all that.

http://www.wholesalemobilehomes.net/blog/2017/5/21/tiny-home-vs-mobile-home-vs-rv-what-is-the-best-deal-for-the-money

[Gail2000]

It doesn’t say how they came up with the number 20k. It sounded good so they started building? I applaud the initiative to be sure. It feels like these cheep half assed new builds that don’t even have tar paper on the roofs under the shingles are as disposable as the H&M clothing out now a days.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

It doesn’t say how they came up with the number 20k. It sounded good so they started building? I applaud the initiative to be sure. It feels like these cheep half assed new builds that don’t even have tar paper on the roofs under the shingles are as disposable as the H&M clothing out now a days.

Wait, are you talking about homes that use Huber ZIP system OSB? Because that stuff is light years ahead of plain OSB + tar paper. Tar paper is really pretty pathetic as a moisture barrier.

[Gail2000]

It doesn’t say how they came up with the number 20k. It sounded good so they started building? I applaud the initiative to be sure. It feels like these cheep half assed new builds that don’t even have tar paper on the roofs under the shingles are as disposable as the H&M clothing out now a days.

Wait, are you talking about homes that use Huber ZIP system OSB? Because that stuff is light years ahead of plain OSB + tar paper. Tar paper is really pretty pathetic as a moisture barrier.

It just looked like they put the shingles directly on the roof is all. It’s possible, as we weren’t on the roof that there was something else going down.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

It doesn’t say how they came up with the number 20k. It sounded good so they started building? I applaud the initiative to be sure. It feels like these cheep half assed new builds that don’t even have tar paper on the roofs under the shingles are as disposable as the H&M clothing out now a days.

Wait, are you talking about homes that use Huber ZIP system OSB? Because that stuff is light years ahead of plain OSB + tar paper. Tar paper is really pretty pathetic as a moisture barrier.

It just looked like they put the shingles directly on the roof is all. It’s possible, as we weren’t on the roof that there was something else going down.

Was the OSB green or red, or was it just regular wood-colored? Huber ZIP system OSB looks like this:

[Gail2000]

It doesn’t say how they came up with the number 20k. It sounded good so they started building? I applaud the initiative to be sure. It feels like these cheep half assed new builds that don’t even have tar paper on the roofs under the shingles are as disposable as the H&M clothing out now a days.

Wait, are you talking about homes that use Huber ZIP system OSB? Because that stuff is light years ahead of plain OSB + tar paper. Tar paper is really pretty pathetic as a moisture barrier.

It just looked like they put the shingles directly on the roof is all. It’s possible, as we weren’t on the roof that there was something else going down.

Was the OSB green or red, or was it just regular wood-colored? Huber ZIP system OSB looks like this:

I’ll take a closer look but it didn’t look like that. I know there is some magnificent technology out there.