Author Topic: Mitt Romney, wealth and frugality  (Read 20263 times)

igthebold

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Re: Mitt Romney, wealth and frugality
« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2012, 06:30:16 AM »
No, I'm basing my assessment of his intelligence (and Obama's) on the policies he followed, or failed to follow, during his term in office.

I think you're conflating intelligence with wisdom, leadership, and any number of other qualities. Intelligent people don't always make the best leaders or the best decisions under fire. They just understand things more quickly. They can still cave to pressure, be utter fools, be irrational, etc, just like unintelligent people.

Jamesqf

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Re: Mitt Romney, wealth and frugality
« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2012, 11:20:06 AM »
No, I'm basing my assessment of his intelligence (and Obama's) on the policies he followed, or failed to follow, during his term in office.

I think you're conflating intelligence with wisdom, leadership, and any number of other qualities. Intelligent people don't always make the best leaders or the best decisions under fire. They just understand things more quickly. They can still cave to pressure, be utter fools, be irrational, etc, just like unintelligent people.

We must be using different definitions of intelligence.  To me, intelligence includes wisdom, and excludes leadership.  Intelligent people may not  necessarily make the quickest decisions under fire, but they ultimately have a better understanding.  I've worked with several seemingly "intelligent" people over the years: they'd give you a quick answer - indeed, often won't let other people get a word in edgewise - but those answers were more often than not dead wrong.

igthebold

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Re: Mitt Romney, wealth and frugality
« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2012, 11:28:08 AM »
We must be using different definitions of intelligence.

Not to get into an argument about semantics, it doesn't sound like you really disagree with the others, then. Arguing about whether someone is X when you are using a different meaning for the word X is arguing that needs some refinement.

Jamesqf

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Re: Mitt Romney, wealth and frugality
« Reply #53 on: October 05, 2012, 04:26:23 PM »
OK, I'm not at my best first thing in the morning.

What I was trying to say is that pretty much all Presidential policy initiatives are developed over comparatively long periods - days to months, if not years - so making quick decisions under fire is hardly relevant.  Similarly with leadership: it affects whether a proposed policy gets adopted or not, but has nothing to do with whether the policy is intelligent or not.  (Indeed, it could be argued that there's a negative correlation: we can all think of instances where gifted leaders have persuaded their countries to adopt really, really stupid policies.)

So if you look at the policies which Bush and Obama followed, or tried to follow, how many of them showed intelligence?  I'd say almost none.

igthebold

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Re: Mitt Romney, wealth and frugality
« Reply #54 on: October 09, 2012, 01:30:40 PM »
What I was trying to say is that pretty much all Presidential policy initiatives are developed over comparatively long periods - days to months, if not years - so making quick decisions under fire is hardly relevant.  Similarly with leadership: it affects whether a proposed policy gets adopted or not, but has nothing to do with whether the policy is intelligent or not.  (Indeed, it could be argued that there's a negative correlation: we can all think of instances where gifted leaders have persuaded their countries to adopt really, really stupid policies.)

So if you look at the policies which Bush and Obama followed, or tried to follow, how many of them showed intelligence?  I'd say almost none.

I'd say, given their motives were pure, I agree. However, I think a combination of political expediency and a lack of principle contributed.

For instance, in the case of bank bailouts, a principled person would have said, "not the government's problem," or "the government should have been in the business of close regulation all along.. let's do this thing right." Political expediency led to, "let's throw money at the problem."

In the case of the patriot act, a principled person would've said, "safety is far more important than liberty," or "liberty is far more important than safety." Instead, political expediency has aimed to have it both ways.

Moreover, the resulting legislation may actually have suffered from the typical design-by-committee problem of annealing to something that is similar in aspect to the original proposals, but ended up lacking both the ethos and intent of the original. In this case, they lacked the ability to rein in the pork and enforce their vision. This is giving both the benefit of the doubt, of course.

I think it's far more complex than simply attributing it to intelligence. Although, you could say they are politically intelligent, but not able to work out some simple future consequences. Their intelligence is very focused/limited.

Interesting discussion. I do agree that there has been a great deal of hurtful action during the last 12 years. Figuring out why will hopefully help me vote better.

Jamesqf

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Re: Mitt Romney, wealth and frugality
« Reply #55 on: October 09, 2012, 09:36:31 PM »
In the case of the patriot act, a principled person would've said, "safety is far more important than liberty," or "liberty is far more important than safety." Instead, political expediency has aimed to have it both ways.

Expediency or not, a lack of intelligence (I mean smarts, not the spy kind) ensures that we lose liberty without getting any increase in safety, at considerable cost.

arebelspy

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Re: Mitt Romney, wealth and frugality
« Reply #56 on: October 10, 2012, 07:44:22 AM »
a lack of intelligence (I mean smarts, not the spy kind)

HEY! 

Watch it.

;)
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