Frugal grandpa dies after torturing grandma with his cheapskate ways

[BlueHouse]

I don't know if the link will live forever, so I'm pasting the entire article too. 

This hurts. 


https://live.washingtonpost.com/carolyn-hax-live20200228.html#5903095


Q: my grandfather's secret
My grandfather died last year and my grandmother was really broken up at first but something came to light that changed her feelings. After my grandfather retired, he insisted that he and my grandmom live real frugally. They ate mainly beans and rice, canned vegetables – that kind of thing so my mom and dad tried to treat them whenever they could to some meat, or even a dinner out when they could afford it. Also, the house was always cold in the winter so my mom made them quilts and bought my grandmom a space heater which my grandfather let her run a couple of hours a day in the winter. They couldn’t visit her sisters and brother because it was too expensive and that really bothered my grandmom because she even missed their funerals. We were the only family near her and my mom, dad and me all tried to make it up to her. After my grandfather died we found out they were worth over a million dollars. My grandmom was so hurt and angry to realize she had been essentially living in poverty, taking things from her daughter’s family, when they could have had the best of everything and been giving to us all along. I don’t think my grandfather was being mean, I think he was just scared of running out of money but my grandmom now hates the memory of him and says she’s glad he died. This has my mom so torn up and she cries after visiting her mom. My grandmom is also spending money pretty wildly – her house is like a sauna and she has steak and shrimp all the time and wants to buy me a car. First question, is okay if I take the car and second, how can I help her get over being mad so she can mourn my grandfather who wasn’t really a bad guy?

A: Carolyn Hax
Wait a minute, no, do not "help her get over being mad so she can mourn my grandfather who wasn’t really a bad guy." He did a terrible thing to her--"they couldn’t visit her sisters and brother." That's just flat-out awful, without even getting into the hunger and shivering. *He took her family from her,* because he prioritized his fear. It is not your responsibility and, more important, not your place to provide a counterargument for her rage. She earned it, he deserves it, and so if you want to get involved in some way, consider making it an, "Amen, sister, I am so sorry he did that to you. Can I help you with that shrimp dish?"

Take the car, too. She wants to use her agency and she wants to use her money, and better that it goes to safe transportation for you than into the atmosphere from her furnace. Here's how you can keep it from being an enabling "yes": Figure out how much the car payment would be for, say, six years at 0 percent interest. Put that amount in a separate account every month for the next six years. If Grandma rage-spends herself to bankruptcy, start paying her back from the account in monthly installments. If her money outlives her, then you have a nice saving account.

Also, if she's confiding in you, ask if she has taken steps to ensure she has money for living expenses for life, and isn't at risk of torching it all.

In time, *if left alone to have her rage,* your grandmother may well burn all the anger off and gradually return to a more complicated opinion of her late husband. But the key part of that is letting her have her due feelings and not trying to tell her how she "should" feel.

 

— FEB 28, 2020 1:13 PM

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

I am a Hax devotee, too! She has even answered several of my questions over the years.

I saw that question in the chat, too. Just devastating. Obviously not at all Mustachian. Just cheap and not well, mentally speaking.

There was a suggestion later in the chat that she make it a condition of accepting the car that she and Grandma go on a road trip together, which I thought was lovely.

[bthewalls]

I don't know if the link will live forever, so I'm pasting the entire article too. 

This hurts. 


https://live.washingtonpost.com/carolyn-hax-live20200228.html#5903095


Q: my grandfather's secret
My grandfather died last year and my grandmother was really broken up at first but something came to light that changed her feelings. After my grandfather retired, he insisted that he and my grandmom live real frugally. They ate mainly beans and rice, canned vegetables – that kind of thing so my mom and dad tried to treat them whenever they could to some meat, or even a dinner out when they could afford it. Also, the house was always cold in the winter so my mom made them quilts and bought my grandmom a space heater which my grandfather let her run a couple of hours a day in the winter. They couldn’t visit her sisters and brother because it was too expensive and that really bothered my grandmom because she even missed their funerals. We were the only family near her and my mom, dad and me all tried to make it up to her. After my grandfather died we found out they were worth over a million dollars. My grandmom was so hurt and angry to realize she had been essentially living in poverty, taking things from her daughter’s family, when they could have had the best of everything and been giving to us all along. I don’t think my grandfather was being mean, I think he was just scared of running out of money but my grandmom now hates the memory of him and says she’s glad he died. This has my mom so torn up and she cries after visiting her mom. My grandmom is also spending money pretty wildly – her house is like a sauna and she has steak and shrimp all the time and wants to buy me a car. First question, is okay if I take the car and second, how can I help her get over being mad so she can mourn my grandfather who wasn’t really a bad guy?

A: Carolyn Hax
Wait a minute, no, do not "help her get over being mad so she can mourn my grandfather who wasn’t really a bad guy." He did a terrible thing to her--"they couldn’t visit her sisters and brother." That's just flat-out awful, without even getting into the hunger and shivering. *He took her family from her,* because he prioritized his fear. It is not your responsibility and, more important, not your place to provide a counterargument for her rage. She earned it, he deserves it, and so if you want to get involved in some way, consider making it an, "Amen, sister, I am so sorry he did that to you. Can I help you with that shrimp dish?"

Take the car, too. She wants to use her agency and she wants to use her money, and better that it goes to safe transportation for you than into the atmosphere from her furnace. Here's how you can keep it from being an enabling "yes": Figure out how much the car payment would be for, say, six years at 0 percent interest. Put that amount in a separate account every month for the next six years. If Grandma rage-spends herself to bankruptcy, start paying her back from the account in monthly installments. If her money outlives her, then you have a nice saving account.

Also, if she's confiding in you, ask if she has taken steps to ensure she has money for living expenses for life, and isn't at risk of torching it all.

In time, *if left alone to have her rage,* your grandmother may well burn all the anger off and gradually return to a more complicated opinion of her late husband. But the key part of that is letting her have her due feelings and not trying to tell her how she "should" feel.

 

— FEB 28, 2020 1:13 PM

That’s obviously not the behaviour of a mentally balanced person...there’s are all sorts of mental illness,nastiness and selfishness....

[nereo]

Not sure the age, but I'm wondering if the grandfather was a product of the depression, and/or extreme childhood poverty.
I know it's a different generaiton, but I'm also shocked and saddened that somehow the grandmother simply didn't know what their true financial situation was.  Perhaps that could have been a counterweight against his extreme frugality.

[trashtalk]

I have elderly relatives who are basically terrified to travel because they are, well, terrified of the world. They have literally millions but won't go visit their own dying relatives because of questions like "but how would we get there?" They are so dysfunctional that they are unable to even ask for help reserving plane tickets and downloading the Uber app. A lot of it is a fear that they will be tricked or defrauded.

But it's ultimately less about money than about how they are damaged, toxic, dysfunctional people who refuse to grow, change or sit in uncertainty to even a minute in a low-stakes situation.

[Maenad]

Even if the grandpa was acting out of fear, that's financial abuse. Abuse isn't somehow "OK" because it stems from fear and not meanness.

This is also one of the dangers of letting one's spouse/partner have all of the financial knowledge and power. I hope "grandma" enjoys her remaining years, eventually can let go of her anger just for her own sake, and focus on the joys in life.

[moof]

Jarring.  My guess is the frugal mindset got them to the million dollar mark in the first place, but the fellow just could not switch his mindset to actually withdrawing from it.  I personally am afraid I might fall into a mild version of this trap when it comes to actually having to start cashing out hard fought savings.  The current plan is to try and automate as much of this withdrawals as possible so that it shows up as income every month as if we are paying ourselves.  Hopefully my wife will metaphorically Facepunch me if I go loony.

On the other hand while I handle the investments, there is full transparency as to where the money is and what I am doing.  My wife wants assurances more than details, so a lot of it is me sharing more than her asking, which often leaves me somewhat queasy that I may get blamed in hindsight no matter what happens.

[martyconlonontherun]

Obviously don't have the details to make a fair response. Granted he should've let up on some of the funeral stuff, but the difference between saving $150 and $25 a month over 40 years is the difference $1m and $150k depending on returns. If he wasn't extremely frugal she could be like most Americans and in poverty after the death of a spouse.

Different time back then where I don't think my wife would let me be that frugal as she knows my salary and obviously knows her salary.

[HipGnosis]

I relate.
I was told we were middle class growing up.
But...
I shared a room with my two brothers.
I never had a bike, radio, records...   The only toy that was 'mine' was a (1) GI Joe.
All my cloths were from clearance racks (and out of style).
I carried my lunch to school (which I walked to/from), in a paper bag, and I HAD to bring the bag back home to use over and over.
Our only vacations were to visit relatives (by car).
Then, in '65, my dad not only bought a new car, he ordered it with exactly the options he wanted.
And he bought another new car every 3-4 yrs.

[SourdoughEnthusiast]

when we believe we are in the right its easy to justify controlling behaviours. While everyone on this forum knows the virtues of living frugally, that doesn't mean unilaterally deciding how another adult should live is right. I can see why the grandma was upset. Whether or not she would have made different lifestyle decisions, her ability to even make informed choices was removed by her husbands financial deception. loving someone means more than ensuring they are looked after financially, it means actually being partner to them.

[Cassie]

Wow that’s a awful story. I hope the family can heal.

[Hula Hoop]

That is financial abuse.  I can't imagine how angry the grandmother must feel especially not being allowed to visit her siblings before they died.  The whole point of being married is that you make decisions together as a team and many of those decisions are financial.  Deciding how much to spend on groceries, heating and travel should all be joint decisions.  It's horrible that this man was able to have complete control over finances throughout their marriage.

[Gronnie]

If the net worth was truly "only" a million dollars, then no, they couldn't have had "the best of everything". Sure, they could have kept the house at a more comfortable temperature, ate some meat, and visited relatives -- but those are normal things. From the sounds of it, Grandma is going the opposite now and will be broke very quickly.

[nereo]

If the net worth was truly "only" a million dollars, then no, they couldn't have had "the best of everything". Sure, they could have kept the house at a more comfortable temperature, ate some meat, and visited relatives -- but those are normal things. From the sounds of it, Grandma is going the opposite now and will be broke very quickly.

Seems very speculative given the information available.  Someone with a timeframe that’s much shorter than the typical 30+ years can safely use a much higher WR.  Not unreasonable to think she could spend $60k/year with little fear of running out if she’s well into her 70s. 

Is she in a HCOL/LOCL area?  Paid off home? The article doesn’t say, just mentioned eating steak and shrimp and jacking up the heat.  Oh, and a car.  Depending on a number of factors she might be able to afford an upper-middle class lifestyle very easily, or not so much.  We just don’t have enough information.