Author Topic: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.  (Read 5679 times)

FIRE 20/20

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Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« on: June 05, 2021, 01:46:55 PM »
Please feel free to post replies - I am going to create a post for each author I read, but I don't want to prevent anyone from jumping in in the middle and having a conversation!

I've always been a fan of good Science Fiction, but I recently realized that while I've read a lot of the work of a few of the best, I haven't read many of the Grand Masters.  A few months ago I set a goal of reading at least one book from each of the Damon Knight Memorial Grand Master Award winners from the  Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America.  Here are two links for those who are interested in joining me or following along. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damon_Knight_Memorial_Grand_Master_Award
https://nebulas.sfwa.org/grand-masters/

I hope that this thread will motivate me to keep going if I lose interest in this activity over the months and years it takes for me to finish.  I'll try to post my thoughts about each author in a separate post as I work my way through, but I really hope to hear comments from other people who are interested or are thinking about joining me. 



    1975 Robert A. Heinlein (1907–1988)
    1976 Jack Williamson (1908–2006)
    1977 Clifford D. Simak (1904–1988)
    1978 —
    1979 L. Sprague de Camp (1907–2000)
    1980 —
    1981 Fritz Leiber (1910–1992)
    1982 —
    1983 —
    1984 Andre Norton (1912–2005)
    1985 —
    1986 Arthur C. Clarke (1917–2008)
    1987 Isaac Asimov (1920–1992)
    1988 Alfred Bester (1913–1987)
    1989 Ray Bradbury (1920–2012)
    1990 —
    1991 Lester del Rey (1915–1993)
    1992 —
    1993 Frederik Pohl (1919–2013)
    1994 —
    1995 Damon Knight (1922–2002)
    1996 A. E. van Vogt (1912–2000)
    1997 Jack Vance (1916–2013)
    1998 Poul Anderson (1926–2001)
    1999 Hal Clement (1922–2003)
    2000 Brian W. Aldiss (1925–2017)
    2001 Philip José Farmer (1918–2009)
    2002 —
    2003 Ursula K. Le Guin (1929–2018)
    2004 Robert Silverberg (1935–)
    2005 Anne McCaffrey (1926–2011)
    2006 Harlan Ellison (1934–2018)[7]
    2007 James Gunn (1923–2020)
    2008 Michael Moorcock (1939–)[8][9]
    2009 Harry Harrison (1925–2012)[10][11]
    2010 Joe Haldeman (1943–)[12]
    2011 —
    2012 Connie Willis (1945–)[13]
    2013 Gene Wolfe (1931–2019)[14][15]
    2014 Samuel Delany (1942–)[16]
    2015 Larry Niven (1938–)[17]
    2016 C.J. Cherryh (1942–)[18]
    2017 Jane Yolen (1939–)[19]
    2018 Peter S. Beagle (1939–)[20][21]
    2019 William Gibson (1948–)[22]
    2020 Lois McMaster Bujold (1949–)[23]
    2021 Nalo Hopkinson (1960–)[24]

« Last Edit: June 05, 2021, 02:25:14 PM by FIRE 20/20 »

FIRE 20/20

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2021, 02:06:51 PM »
1975 winner - Robert Heinlein

I was a huge Heinlein fan in Middle School and High School and re-read about 20 of his books last year.  I think his Juveniles stand up pretty well, apart from the obvious technological weaknesses.  If I had wanted kids I definitely would have given them these books in elementary/middle school.  Unfortunately, most of his non-Juvenile books and short stories just don't hold up for me.  Looking back, I think I enjoyed his heroes' self-confidence, self-reliance, and independent thought.  As an adult his philosophy seems horribly naive, self-centered, and his politics questionable at best.  I can look past all of that though if the writing and stories are good, and I think many of the books do hold up from that perspective.  If I were going to recommend books for someone interested in Heinlein to read I'd suggest any of his Juveniles for kids, and Stranger in a Strange Land and Glory Road for adults.  I think it's pretty common to believe that his latter books (World as Myth series) were terrible and primarily acted as soapboxes upon which he could have his main characters, primarily Lazarus Long, stand to get Heinlein's philosophy on everything from packing a wagon to homestead on an uninhabited world to proper sexual mores.  In my teens it seemed like he was offering wise life lessons but in my 40s it seems like he's just a pontificating ignoramus telling everyone to not just get off his lawn but also exactly how they should go about doing it. 
« Last Edit: June 25, 2021, 05:38:13 PM by FIRE 20/20 »

FIRE 20/20

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2021, 02:07:35 PM »
1976 Jack Williamson (1908–2006)

Placeholder - haven't been able to get any of his books yet. 

FIRE 20/20

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2021, 02:24:03 PM »
1977 Clifford D. Simak (1904–1988)

I wasn't familiar with Clifford D. Simak, but I'm now a huge fan.  For people who aren't familiar with his work, I think he summed up his approach incredibly well in the forward to his collection "Skirmish":

"Overall, I have written in a quiet manner; there is little violence in my work. My focus has been on people, not on events. More often than not I have struck a hopeful note... I have, on occasions, tried to speak out for decency and compassion, for understanding, not only in the human, but in the cosmic sense. I have tried at times to place humans in perspective against the vastness of universal time and space. I have been concerned where we, as a race, may be going, and what may be our purpose in the universal scheme—if we have a purpose. In general, I believe we do, and perhaps an important one."

I've read only a few of his novels and short stories (Time and Again, Way Station, Time is the Simplest Thing, The Goblin Reservation, The Big Front Yard), but he's quickly become one of my favorite authors.  The Goblin Reservation is very different in tone and style, but all of the other books seem to me to be best described as "contemplative".  There is action, but most of what happens in the other books and stories seems to me to focus on his characters quietly working their way through some dilemma, often dealing with big questions like what constitutes "humanity" - is it just humans, all of life in the universe, androids and robots, etc.?  What should the universe do about humanity - are we too violent and intolerant to be welcomed onto the galactic stage? 

After reading a lot of Heinlein and Simak back-to-back, I feel like I would have enjoyed going to a party with Heinlein but I would have wanted to form a deep friendship with Simak. 

To someone new to Simak, City is one of the usual recommendations but I haven't read it yet.  Other than that, I started with Way Station and I absolutely loved it.  It's a great book to read in a quiet, beautiful place.  I would periodically put it down, look at the sky and trees, and think. 

***Update - I just read "City", and enjoyed it.  One of the main things I took away from this book is that not only aliens but also other animals (dogs, ants, and robots in particular) are likely to think in fundamentally different ways from humans and we may never understand their thought processes (and they may never understand ours).  For my taste, I still preferred Way Station.  I think the main reason was that when Simak wrote City he was writing individual short stories to be published in magazines, and as a result he had to recap much of what had come before.  His writing is so slowly paced compared to current style that the repetition grated on me a bit.  Other than that though I really enjoyed it. 
« Last Edit: June 25, 2021, 05:06:24 PM by FIRE 20/20 »

Slow road to freedom

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2021, 02:31:21 PM »
I was directed towards Jack Vance many years ago. A project to produce a ‘Vance Integral Edition’ was completed in the early 2000s, a crowd-funded full works of Vance by fans, for fans. I regret not signing up for a copy.
Special text, to me anyway.
Sounds like a fun project you’re on.

CowboyAndIndian

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2021, 02:36:34 PM »
A fellow sci-fi fan! Awesome.

I've moved to a new (to me) home and have so many projects that my reading has fallen by the side. Even when I'm tired, I watch YouTube learning about what I am going to do next.

This is a great thread that will give me ideas about what to read next! I already see some of my favorites on the list. Arthur C. Clarke, Isaac Asimov, Larry Niven, and Heinlein. I am more interested in hard sci-fi and not fantasy. Also, as you mentioned, some author's works have not aged well.

How come you do not have H.G. Wells or Jules Verne in your list? I guess they age out since the list is more modern.

Also, one of the modern authors that I like is John Scalzi, though I hate his latest serial. Other modern authors I like, are David Brin, Vernor Vinge, and Orson Scott Card. But I guess they are not on the grand-master list (yet?).
« Last Edit: June 05, 2021, 02:54:14 PM by CowboyAndIndian »

FIRE 20/20

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2021, 02:47:42 PM »
A fellow sci-fi fan! Awesome.

I've moved to a new (to me) home and have so many projects that my reading has fallen by the side. Even when I'm tired, I watch YouTube learning about what I am going to do next.

This is a great thread that will give me ideas about what to read next! I already see some of my favorites on the list. Arthur C. Clarke, Isaac Asimov, Larry Niven, David Brin, and Heinlein. I am more interested in hard-core sci-fi and not fantasy. Also, as you mentioned, some author's works have not aged well.

How come you do not have H.G. Wells or Jules Verne in your list? Also, one of the modern authors that I like is John Scalzi, though I hate his latest serial.

Neither Wells nor Verne won the award, and this project is just about reading all the authors who did.  Adding them might be a good idea, but there are a lot of other authors I would probably need to add as well.

I too am more interested in S.F. than fantasy, although many of these authors did both.  I plan to focus on the S.F. works rather than their Fantasy stuff. 

Abe

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2021, 07:17:36 PM »
I like Niven and Clarke’s books. They are both good at creating a world with background that the characters are influenced by, rather than characters who are basically modern humans with weird random characteristics. It’s interesting looking at the list and seeing how many of them grew up during or immediately after World War II, and how that influenced their writing.

Kim Stanley Robinson also has some good series, especially the Mars series, which reminded me of Niven’s series in terms of landscape/background.

CowboyAndIndian

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2021, 03:13:34 PM »
Kim Stanley Robinson also has some good series, especially the Mars series, which reminded me of Niven’s series in terms of landscape/background.
I was so excited to start this series but the books did not meet my expectations. Maybe the hype the guys recommending it put the bar too high. I had the feeling that Robinson was more interested in pushing his political beliefs than the sci-fi. Also, did not believe that they could terraform Mars in such a short while (the original pioneers are still alive at the time of terraforming). I read this a long time ago (20 years), so could have misremembered some items.

deborah

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2021, 08:58:29 PM »
Heinlein hasn’t stood the test of time. Even at the time, in his later books he became a dirty old man.

Simak was always someone I enjoyed!

Because this is limited to American authors, a number of my favourites won’t appear.

jambongris

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2021, 07:50:50 AM »
This week’s episode of Mythic Quest was a flashback episode with Asimov, Le Guin, and a few others from your list.

I’ve been meaning to read more SF for a while now. Can you recommend a book from one of the authors on your list for a new adult reader of SF?

FIRE 20/20

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2021, 06:50:04 PM »
Kim Stanley Robinson also has some good series, especially the Mars series, which reminded me of Niven’s series in terms of landscape/background.
I was so excited to start this series but the books did not meet my expectations. Maybe the hype the guys recommending it put the bar too high. I had the feeling that Robinson was more interested in pushing his political beliefs than the sci-fi. Also, did not believe that they could terraform Mars in such a short while (the original pioneers are still alive at the time of terraforming). I read this a long time ago (20 years), so could have misremembered some items.

I also was disappointed in the Mars series, but I've learned that as I age my tastes change.  I hope I'll find something there upon re-reading.

FIRE 20/20

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2021, 06:55:16 PM »
Heinlein hasn’t stood the test of time. Even at the time, in his later books he became a dirty old man.

Simak was always someone I enjoyed!

Because this is limited to American authors, a number of my favourites won’t appear.

The award isn't limited to American authors, although the name of the organization does have that country in the title.  Michael Moorcock and Brian Aldiss I believe were both from the U.K.  Those are just two that I know about - they may be the only two or there may be others I don't know.  My favorite author (Iain M. Banks) isn't on the list, but I think it's because his work isn't as widely known and not because he was from Scotland.  It's frustrating, because I love his books more than any other S.F. author I've found. 

FIRE 20/20

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2021, 07:16:25 PM »
This week’s episode of Mythic Quest was a flashback episode with Asimov, Le Guin, and a few others from your list.

I’ve been meaning to read more SF for a while now. Can you recommend a book from one of the authors on your list for a new adult reader of SF?

What's Mythic Quest?

As for a recommendation, that would depend on what you're looking for.  I really dislike dystopian fiction, and SF moved in that direction sometime after the Golden Age of SF.  I'm also not a huge fan of Space Opera or highly militaristic SF.  The best SF to me uses an alien context to come at a human issue from a totally different perspective.  Ursula K. Le Guin was great at this and The Left Hand of Darkness is a great example of that.   I also like when a SF author takes one idea and sees how far it can go. 
Without knowing what you're looking for, I was really impressed with Clifford D. Simak's Way Station.  But if you're looking for action that's about as far away from that as you can get.  I enjoyed I, Robot by Isaac Asimov.  I love how he took a few simple rules and found the gaps and flaws in behavior that could result from those simple rules.  If you like logic puzzles then those might appeal to you.  For militaristic SF, The Forever War by Joe Haldeman is good.  If you can get past some of the issues with Heinlein, he really was a great writer and story teller.  I just can't put up with his absurdly super-competent heros and his obsession with incest in his later books, along with the lectures on the right way to do things.  I'd start with The Moon is a Harsh Mistress if you want to give Heinlein a go.  There's a reason he was the first SF Grand Master even if he doesn't hold up very well. 

But someone not on the list who I think is at least as good as all of these authors I've read is Iain M. Banks.  If you're ready to dig into a new series, starting with Consider Phlebas would be good, although the second book in the series (The Player of Games) is better.  Unfortunately if you read The Player of Games first then Consider Phlebas loses a little bit.  It's only a small impact, so if you're unsure you want to commit to reading the series and just want to try it out then you'd be fine starting with The Player of Games.  If you love it you'll still like Consider Phlebas even if you read them out of order. 

But if you let me know what you're interested in I might have other recommendations. 
« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 07:18:03 PM by FIRE 20/20 »

jambongris

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2021, 07:52:26 PM »
This week’s episode of Mythic Quest was a flashback episode with Asimov, Le Guin, and a few others from your list.

I’ve been meaning to read more SF for a while now. Can you recommend a book from one of the authors on your list for a new adult reader of SF?

What's Mythic Quest?

As for a recommendation, that would depend on what you're looking for.  I really dislike dystopian fiction, and SF moved in that direction sometime after the Golden Age of SF.  I'm also not a huge fan of Space Opera or highly militaristic SF.  The best SF to me uses an alien context to come at a human issue from a totally different perspective.  Ursula K. Le Guin was great at this and The Left Hand of Darkness is a great example of that.   I also like when a SF author takes one idea and sees how far it can go. 
Without knowing what you're looking for, I was really impressed with Clifford D. Simak's Way Station.  But if you're looking for action that's about as far away from that as you can get.  I enjoyed I, Robot by Isaac Asimov.  I love how he took a few simple rules and found the gaps and flaws in behavior that could result from those simple rules.  If you like logic puzzles then those might appeal to you.  For militaristic SF, The Forever War by Joe Haldeman is good.  If you can get past some of the issues with Heinlein, he really was a great writer and story teller.  I just can't put up with his absurdly super-competent heros and his obsession with incest in his later books, along with the lectures on the right way to do things.  I'd start with The Moon is a Harsh Mistress if you want to give Heinlein a go.  There's a reason he was the first SF Grand Master even if he doesn't hold up very well. 

But someone not on the list who I think is at least as good as all of these authors I've read is Iain M. Banks.  If you're ready to dig into a new series, starting with Consider Phlebas would be good, although the second book in the series (The Player of Games) is better.  Unfortunately if you read The Player of Games first then Consider Phlebas loses a little bit.  It's only a small impact, so if you're unsure you want to commit to reading the series and just want to try it out then you'd be fine starting with The Player of Games.  If you love it you'll still like Consider Phlebas even if you read them out of order. 

But if you let me know what you're interested in I might have other recommendations.
Wow. Thank you for the detailed recommendations.

The short answer is that I don’t know what I’m looking for within the SF genre. All of those seem like good starting points though.

Mythic Quest is a comedy show about a video game developer. One of the characters on the show is a writer and helps with writing the storylines for the game. The last episode was his backstory which included his time working near Asimov, Le Guin, and a few of the others listed in this thread.

CowboyAndIndian

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2021, 06:08:39 PM »
For militaristic SF, my recommendations/favorites are

- Heinlein "Starship troopers"
- Orson Scott Card "Enders Game"
- John Scalzi "Old man's war"
- David Brin "Startide Rising"



Eco_eco

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2021, 04:31:17 PM »
I’ve been on a hard sci-fi blitz this year because of the forthcoming Dune movie and Apple TV’s soon to come Foundation TV series.

I’ve found both the Dune and Foundation books interesting series to re-read (I haven’t read them since I was in my early teens). I really like how in both series, the author is exploring a different philosophical idea in each book - as opposed to basically writing the same book again. Some of the books make a hard slog but it is fun to read sci-fi as philosophy.

While I’m here I’ll make another plug for Ian M Banks. His sci-fi books are among my favourites. I particularly liked Against A Dark Background and Use of Weapons, but both a quite dark and explore exactly what humanity is capable to doing to other humans.


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grantmeaname

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2021, 09:45:54 AM »
Two thoughts from me. For Ursula Le Guin, I HIGHLY recommend The Dispossessed. She has some other good works too, like Left Hand of Darkness, but IMO The Dispossessed is a masterpiece and her other stuff ranges from forgettable to medium-good.
I know this is a scifi thread, but Lois McMaster Bujold's Chalion series is superb if you're willing to go over to the fantasy side.

Louisville

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2021, 10:08:56 AM »
Two thoughts from me. For Ursula Le Guin, I HIGHLY recommend The Dispossessed. She has some other good works too, like Left Hand of Darkness, but IMO The Dispossessed is a masterpiece and her other stuff ranges from forgettable to medium-good.
I know this is a scifi thread, but Lois McMaster Bujold's Chalion series is superb if you're willing to go over to the fantasy side.

Both of those books are great. My favorite LeGuin are the three short novels Rocannon's World, Planet of Exile, and City of Illusions. These have normally been published together in one volume, labeled either Worlds of Exile and Illusion or Three Hainish Novels.
Each story stands on it's own, but together they tell a larger story that sets the stage for stories to come later, including Left Hand of Darkness.

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2021, 10:14:01 AM »
Asimov, Niven, Heinlein, Clarke, Herbert, Gibson, Creighton, and Phillip K. Dick . . . these were staples of my younger reading.  Some of the stories and concepts don't stand up all that well to time, but a surprising number still do.


A couple decent sci-fi works that are really worth checking out that I don't think get enough press:
Peter Watts - Starfish - Deep sea/claustrophobic/psychological focused story with some great ideas  (His Blindsight book is also very good, but a little less accessible).
Pauolo Bacigalupi - The Windup Girl - Some fascinating ideas of what our near future could look a lot like
John Steakley - Armor - My personal favourite of the space marines type subgenre
Wil McCarthy - Bloom - Fun speculation about nanotech gone wild

Watchmaker

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2021, 11:50:50 AM »
Two thoughts from me. For Ursula Le Guin, I HIGHLY recommend The Dispossessed. She has some other good works too, like Left Hand of Darkness, but IMO The Dispossessed is a masterpiece and her other stuff ranges from forgettable to medium-good.
I know this is a scifi thread, but Lois McMaster Bujold's Chalion series is superb if you're willing to go over to the fantasy side.

I'm reading Le Guin's Always Coming Home right now. It's not a single narrative as such, rather more like a pseudo-anthropological record, but it's been fascinating (although quite dry) to read.

I also really enjoyed Lathe of Heaven, though it is not very sci-fi.

markbike528CBX

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2021, 12:59:13 PM »
I not sure how  Phillip K. Dick and James Tiptree Jr. don't make the list.   Neither are "1st sci-fi" read recommendations, but for real sci-fi buffs, must-reads.

Yup, I've read basically everything Heinlein ever wrote (including posthumous collaborations).  I've given some "juveniles" to young relatives.
Just remember Stranger in a Strange Land is NOT for 16 year olds, which is when I first read it :-) .

I've always been fascinated with the fact that "Stranger.." and "Starship Troopers" were written by the same guy the same  year.

"Starship Troopers" made the Marine Corp Commandant's reading list, "Stranger.." did not.   Hmmmmm.
https://www.marines.mil/News/Messages/Messages-Display/Article/886361/revision-of-the-marine-corps-professional-reading-program-list/     (2009), but it stayed on for a few years.
 

markbike528CBX

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2021, 01:05:10 PM »
.... snip.....
After reading a lot of Heinlein and Simak back-to-back, I feel like I would have enjoyed going to a party with Heinlein but I would have wanted to form a deep friendship with Simak.
...snip... and spelling for Heinlein (second usage).
What about Phillip K. Dick and James Tiptree Jr.?   Maybe scary campfire story time?  or just run away?

Thanks for the Simak recommendation.

grantmeaname

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2021, 01:06:03 PM »
I also really enjoyed Lathe of Heaven, though it is not very sci-fi.
I've never read Lathe of Heaven - really need to fix that soon.

cerat0n1a

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2021, 01:58:22 PM »
1976 Jack Williamson (1908–2006)

Placeholder - haven't been able to get any of his books yet.

I've read very little science fiction in the last 20 years,but He is the only author on the list up until 2019 who I do not own any books by. Looking at his wikipedia page, it looks like a lot of his output was into pulp magazines in the 1920s and 1930s, so maybe there's a short story collection out there?

FIRE 20/20

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2021, 04:49:10 PM »
Two thoughts from me. For Ursula Le Guin, I HIGHLY recommend The Dispossessed. She has some other good works too, like Left Hand of Darkness, but IMO The Dispossessed is a masterpiece and her other stuff ranges from forgettable to medium-good.
I know this is a scifi thread, but Lois McMaster Bujold's Chalion series is superb if you're willing to go over to the fantasy side.

Yes, I really liked The Dispossessed.  When I started this project the idea was to read at least one from each author just to get a flavor of their writing, but I have read about 8 LeGuin books already.  It's definitely slowing down my progress, but I feel like I've learned a lot about her progression as an author. 

FIRE 20/20

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2021, 04:55:40 PM »
I not sure how  Phillip K. Dick and James Tiptree Jr. don't make the list.   Neither are "1st sci-fi" read recommendations, but for real sci-fi buffs, must-reads.

Yup, I've read basically everything Heinlein ever wrote (including posthumous collaborations).  I've given some "juveniles" to young relatives.
Just remember Stranger in a Strange Land is NOT for 16 year olds, which is when I first read it :-) .

I've always been fascinated with the fact that "Stranger.." and "Starship Troopers" were written by the same guy the same  year.

"Starship Troopers" made the Marine Corp Commandant's reading list, "Stranger.." did not.   Hmmmmm.
https://www.marines.mil/News/Messages/Messages-Display/Article/886361/revision-of-the-marine-corps-professional-reading-program-list/     (2009), but it stayed on for a few years.

I was curious about some of those authors as well, and it appears that the award is only given to living authors and that's the reason some writers you might expect aren't on the list. 


FIRE 20/20

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2021, 05:17:39 PM »
1979 winner - L. Sprague de Camp

I'm just starting The Glory That Was, and so far I'm not enjoying it very much.  So far (1/3 of the way in) it is an adventure with two people I don't particularly like and whose motivations I don't understand.  Hopefully it gets better.  If not I also have The Best of L. Sprague de Camp checked out from the library which is a collection of short stories and poems. 

FIRE 20/20

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2021, 05:35:24 PM »
1984 winner - Andre Norton

I read Sargasso of Space and Plague Ship recently.  These are the first two books in the Solar Queen series.  I didn't particularly enjoy either of these novels, so I think I'm finished with this series.  I'm not a fan of space adventure and both of these fit within that sub-genre.  Many of her other books were fantasy which I'm also not interested in.  I'm thinking about downloading The Time Traders, but if anyone has any other recommendations for more meaty Andre Norton books I'd be interested to hear them. 

FIRE 20/20

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2021, 05:37:24 PM »
1981 winner - Fritz Leiber

Placeholder - I just downloaded The Wanderer and The Big Time.  I've never read Fritz Leiber before, but both of these novels won the Hugo award so I'm looking forward to them. 

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2021, 05:42:19 PM »
Two thoughts from me. For Ursula Le Guin, I HIGHLY recommend The Dispossessed. She has some other good works too, like Left Hand of Darkness, but IMO The Dispossessed is a masterpiece and her other stuff ranges from forgettable to medium-good.
I know this is a scifi thread, but Lois McMaster Bujold's Chalion series is superb if you're willing to go over to the fantasy side.

I'm reading Le Guin's Always Coming Home right now. It's not a single narrative as such, rather more like a pseudo-anthropological record, but it's been fascinating (although quite dry) to read.

I also really enjoyed Lathe of Heaven, though it is not very sci-fi.

You probably know this, but her father was an Anthropologist and often had other professors over at the house when she was growing up.  It's clear that influenced both her perspective and her characters.  I haven't read either of those books, but I've really enjoyed most of her other work so I may try them later.  I think I'm going to have to buckle down and move on from authors more quickly if I want to make it through this project!

bacchi

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2021, 09:20:57 PM »
1984 winner - Andre Norton

I read Sargasso of Space and Plague Ship recently.  These are the first two books in the Solar Queen series.  I didn't particularly enjoy either of these novels, so I think I'm finished with this series.  I'm not a fan of space adventure and both of these fit within that sub-genre.  Many of her other books were fantasy which I'm also not interested in.  I'm thinking about downloading The Time Traders, but if anyone has any other recommendations for more meaty Andre Norton books I'd be interested to hear them.

Get the Andre Norton "Megapack" for $0.99. It has The Time Traders as well as other novels and short stories.


----
Vernor Vinge is destined to be a Grand Master. A Fire Upon the Deep is one my favorites.

Dave1442397

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2021, 05:51:16 AM »
I just reread Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land and Starship Troopers, both recently reprinted by Suntup Press. I hadn't read Stranger since the '80s, and didn't know that Virginia Heinlein had approved an expanded version of the book after RAH's death.

I enjoyed Stranger, after all these years. Some of the tech is funny, such as printers for your news, expensive long-distance calling, etc, but the story holds up.

Someone commented up above that they wouldn't give this book to a 16-year-old. I started reading SF at age ten, and found it mind-blowing compared to anything I'd read before. I think early teens is the perfect age for speculative fiction. It makes you think.

Starship Troopers is one I read a few times when I was a teenager, and it holds up well.

I also just read Philip K Dick's A Scanner Darkly, also published by Suntup Press. It's a dark book, and I think PKD's afterword really sums it up - https://www.reddit.com/r/Frisson/comments/1hbexo/text_phillip_k_dicks_afterword_for_a_scanner/


GuitarStv

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2021, 07:12:49 AM »
I just reread Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land and Starship Troopers, both recently reprinted by Suntup Press. I hadn't read Stranger since the '80s, and didn't know that Virginia Heinlein had approved an expanded version of the book after RAH's death.

I enjoyed Stranger, after all these years. Some of the tech is funny, such as printers for your news, expensive long-distance calling, etc, but the story holds up.

Someone commented up above that they wouldn't give this book to a 16-year-old. I started reading SF at age ten, and found it mind-blowing compared to anything I'd read before. I think early teens is the perfect age for speculative fiction. It makes you think.

Starship Troopers is one I read a few times when I was a teenager, and it holds up well.

I also just read Philip K Dick's A Scanner Darkly, also published by Suntup Press. It's a dark book, and I think PKD's afterword really sums it up - https://www.reddit.com/r/Frisson/comments/1hbexo/text_phillip_k_dicks_afterword_for_a_scanner/

Stranger was a good example of Heinlein exploring and questioning social norms through his work without the full-bore diry old man incest thing that he later went right off the rails into in many of his stories.

JGS1980

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2021, 08:29:10 AM »
A fellow sci-fi fan! Awesome.

I've moved to a new (to me) home and have so many projects that my reading has fallen by the side. Even when I'm tired, I watch YouTube learning about what I am going to do next.

This is a great thread that will give me ideas about what to read next! I already see some of my favorites on the list. Arthur C. Clarke, Isaac Asimov, Larry Niven, and Heinlein. I am more interested in hard sci-fi and not fantasy. Also, as you mentioned, some author's works have not aged well.

How come you do not have H.G. Wells or Jules Verne in your list? I guess they age out since the list is more modern.

Also, one of the modern authors that I like is John Scalzi, though I hate his latest serial. Other modern authors I like, are David Brin, Vernor Vinge, and Orson Scott Card. But I guess they are not on the grand-master list (yet?).

Posting to follow because I'm a huge sci-fi geek.

Although I've read Heinlein, Clark, Simak, Dick, and other "early" Grand Masters, it's hard to relate to them as they were white men in a white male dominated world. They were products of their time. I relate better to more modern authors such as Octavia Butler, David Brin, NK Jemison, Bacigalupi, Liu Cixin who are excellent at looking at different perspectives.

From the old school crowd -> Le Guin is amazing. I do have a soft spot for Isaac Asimov and Larry Niven. Ringworld opened my mind up like nothing else in my teens. I've enjoyed reading Kim Stanley Robinson of late (I like the technocrat stuff).

JGS

markbike528CBX

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2021, 09:18:58 AM »
snip......

Someone commented up above that they wouldn't give this book to a 16-year-old. I started reading SF at age ten, and found it mind-blowing compared to anything I'd read before. I think early teens is the perfect age for speculative fiction. It makes you think.

Stranger was a good example of Heinlein exploring and questioning social norms through his work without the full-bore diry old man incest thing that he later went right off the rails into in many of his stories.

I was the not-for-16 year olds statement maker. 
While I agree with the idea that speculative fiction is great for anybody who is able to read it, Stranger has lots of explicit sex and other ideas presented as normal when in fact they are non-standard ideas which can affect a hormone addled, introverted, 16 year old.   
I was irritated that I was not living Jubal Harshaw's/ Michael Valentine Smith's lifestyle, and not likely to do so.  Even now I'm less than a third of the way there :-)

For similar ideas, but suitable for younger readers - The Moon is a Harsh Mistress presents line marriages etc, but nothing as explicit as Stranger.
I distinctly remember thinking after reading Starship Troopers at about age 13, "I've just read a 200 page political tract, and I thoroughly enjoyed it".

That said, if I found a young person reading Stranger, I would not take it from them, but neither would I give it to them or suggest it until mid-university age.

Edit for responses:  yes to all your (GuitarStv and Dave1442397) objections and statements, I'm just constrained a bit by my LDS (Mormon) grandchildren's parents.   
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 12:35:36 PM by markbike528CBX »

GuitarStv

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2021, 09:38:15 AM »
snip......

Someone commented up above that they wouldn't give this book to a 16-year-old. I started reading SF at age ten, and found it mind-blowing compared to anything I'd read before. I think early teens is the perfect age for speculative fiction. It makes you think.

Stranger was a good example of Heinlein exploring and questioning social norms through his work without the full-bore diry old man incest thing that he later went right off the rails into in many of his stories.

I was the not-for-16 year olds statement maker. 
While I agree with the idea that speculative fiction is great for anybody who is able to read it, Stranger has lots of explicit sex and other ideas presented as normal when in fact they are non-standard ideas which can affect a hormone addled, introverted, 16 year old.   
I was irritated that I was not living Jubal Harshaw's/ Michael Valentine Smith's lifestyle, and not likely to do so.  Even now I'm less than a third of the way there :-)

For similar ideas, but suitable for younger readers - The Moon is a Harsh Mistress presents line marriages etc, but nothing as explicit as Stranger.
I distinctly remember thinking after reading Starship Troopers at about age 13, "I've just read a 200 page political tract, and I thoroughly enjoyed it".

That said, if I found a young person reading Stranger, I would not take it from them, but neither would I give it to them or suggest it until mid-university age.

I'm not sure that there's anything wrong with depictions of explicit sex being read by a minor, provided that the sex is consensual/not degrading.  It seems to me that we are much more OK with exposing young children to violence than sex, and that has always puzzled me.

Dave1442397

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2021, 11:37:49 AM »
snip......

Someone commented up above that they wouldn't give this book to a 16-year-old. I started reading SF at age ten, and found it mind-blowing compared to anything I'd read before. I think early teens is the perfect age for speculative fiction. It makes you think.

Stranger was a good example of Heinlein exploring and questioning social norms through his work without the full-bore diry old man incest thing that he later went right off the rails into in many of his stories.

I was the not-for-16 year olds statement maker. 
While I agree with the idea that speculative fiction is great for anybody who is able to read it, Stranger has lots of explicit sex and other ideas presented as normal when in fact they are non-standard ideas which can affect a hormone addled, introverted, 16 year old.   
I was irritated that I was not living Jubal Harshaw's/ Michael Valentine Smith's lifestyle, and not likely to do so.  Even now I'm less than a third of the way there :-)

For similar ideas, but suitable for younger readers - The Moon is a Harsh Mistress presents line marriages etc, but nothing as explicit as Stranger.
I distinctly remember thinking after reading Starship Troopers at about age 13, "I've just read a 200 page political tract, and I thoroughly enjoyed it".

That said, if I found a young person reading Stranger, I would not take it from them, but neither would I give it to them or suggest it until mid-university age.

I'm not sure that there's anything wrong with depictions of explicit sex being read by a minor, provided that the sex is consensual/not degrading.  It seems to me that we are much more OK with exposing young children to violence than sex, and that has always puzzled me.

I'm with you on that. As a young teen, I remember picking up Condominium, by John D. MacDonald, only because I saw "condom". I had no idea what a condominium was :) However, that lead me to the Travis McGee series, and all John D's other work.

I also had copies of Eric Van Lustbader's The Ninja, and Sirens, both of which contained some racy sex scenes that were revisited on a regular basis.

Anyway, with what's on the Internet these days, I doubt there's much that teens haven't been exposed to. I've always encouraged my daughter to read whatever she wants, and to form her own opinions on the subject matter.

There are authors I've tried once and won't go back to, such as Edward Lee. I'm not into gross out horror novels...just not my thing.

As a teen, I had to hide my horror novels behind stacks of SF. My (religious) parents were a little freaked out by seeing titles like 666, The Exorcist, The Omen, etc. Even then, I had hundreds of books, so it was easy enough to hide the ones that failed the parental approval test.


Watchmaker

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2021, 09:12:05 AM »
You probably know this, but her father was an Anthropologist and often had other professors over at the house when she was growing up.  It's clear that influenced both her perspective and her characters.  I haven't read either of those books, but I've really enjoyed most of her other work so I may try them later.  I think I'm going to have to buckle down and move on from authors more quickly if I want to make it through this project!

Her interest in anthropology really shows in Always Coming Home and in The Left Hand of Darkness (which I've just read as well). She seems to always work at two scales to make her worlds believable--the grand differences (like the androgyny in Left Hand) which she deploys expertly, and in the little personal details that fill in the gaps and make her worlds seem lived in.

Watchmaker

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2021, 09:15:15 AM »
1981 winner - Fritz Leiber

Placeholder - I just downloaded The Wanderer and The Big Time.  I've never read Fritz Leiber before, but both of these novels won the Hugo award so I'm looking forward to them.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on these. The only Fritz Lieber I've read are his "Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser" stories, and those were as a young reader. I have the idea in my head that they wouldn't bear revisiting, though that could be wrong.

Dave1442397

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Re: Reading the Grand Masters of S.F.
« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2021, 12:44:06 PM »
1981 winner - Fritz Leiber

Placeholder - I just downloaded The Wanderer and The Big Time.  I've never read Fritz Leiber before, but both of these novels won the Hugo award so I'm looking forward to them.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on these. The only Fritz Lieber I've read are his "Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser" stories, and those were as a young reader. I have the idea in my head that they wouldn't bear revisiting, though that could be wrong.

You could indeed be wrong, because the Centipede Press editions have been selling out pretty quickly. I haven't read these either, but I hear they're good.

https://www.centipedepress.com/fantasy/fgm5.html