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Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Mini Money Mustaches => Topic started by: Queen Frugal on November 06, 2020, 09:34:00 AM

Title: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Queen Frugal on November 06, 2020, 09:34:00 AM
I am wondering how others are treating birthday parties these days.

My daughter is 10 and she was just invited to a birthday party. The birthday party is at an indoor swimming pool. Our community is currently doing okay - better than other areas of my state for sure - but we've seen a slight recent uptick in cases and more alarmingly we are at an all time high hospitalization rate for COVID.

The girl who invited my daughter had a birthday party at the same place a few years ago - and invited everyone from her school in her grade - like 60 people. I don't know how many were invited this year but judging from the mom's FB posts, they aren't taking many precautions, and judging from the nature of the party and the fact that there was no mention of social distancing, my guess is that there will be a lot of kids coming and zero social distancing.

This is a very close friend of my daughter's - or at least she was before the pandemic. My daughter is so incredibly lonely. She is an only child and she is depressed and worn out from the isolation.

My daughter did have a birthday herself recently - and we had a small party. She invited 5 friends and we stayed outdoors with masks. One of the 5 friends is the one who now is having a birthday party.

My daughter enjoyed her own party but afterwards she was just twice as down as before. The loneliness just felt a lot more pronounced after spending time with friends.

I don't know how the heck a swimming pool party can be safe. I feel so bad for my kid I'm considering caving anyway and hoping for the best. Looking for some objective input here.

On another downside, we have a choice to attend online or in person in our school district.  I chose online, which has been pretty rough on all of us. The other little girl chose in person. The in person classes just started meeting in person last week. My daughter hasn't really absorbed this and given the chance, my daughter would definitely prefer in person.  If my daughter goes to this party and talks to other people who are going in person, it's going to crush her.

Please help me out. I think you all will tell me it's stupid nuts to have a swimming party right now. That's what my gut is telling me anyway. I am just really struggling with my daughter's loneliness. She feels so miserable right now.

Thoughts?

Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: GuitarStv on November 06, 2020, 09:45:40 AM
My son has gone to one birthday party since covid started.  The mother organized the party to be outside and had arranged a person with a petting zoo.  All the children wore masks, food was not served at the party (but the kids all got treat bags to take home), and the whole party lasted about an hour and a half.  We have turned down other parties where it didn't seem like the parent was doing enough to keep children safe.

Check with the parents who are planning it to see what they have in mind.  I have trouble imagining a way to keep everyone safe at a swimming party as you've described, but it might be possible.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: TrMama on November 06, 2020, 09:46:37 AM
No
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: TheFrenchCat on November 06, 2020, 09:52:43 AM
We're not doing anything inside, so it'd be a no for us.  But I'm really sorry to hear your daughter is having such a hard time.  I know it's not the same, but has she been keeping in touch with her friend in other ways?  We're in a slightly similar situation where our 5-year-old daughter is going to school virtually and her best friend is in person.  She's only seen him once in person since this all started, but zoom calls have helped.  But we've been really lucky that our daughter has really taken to virtual school and is socializing with her classmates on their lunch meeting. 
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Malcat on November 06, 2020, 10:16:18 AM
No.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: KCM5 on November 06, 2020, 10:33:17 AM
I would - but not if it’s lots of kids and they’re not wearing masks. Outdoor, small masked party? An enthusiastic yes. But that doesn’t sound like what you describe.

I hear you on the only child loneliness. I too have an only child that’s not attending in person school right now. We’ve worked really hard to make sure she can still see some of her friends (outside, wearing masks). They love seeing each other and we all feel comfortable with it because we know what precautions we’re all taking. And sometimes she has virtual play dates with her friends over FaceTime. It helps so much!
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: merula on November 06, 2020, 10:35:16 AM
I wouldn't let my kids go to that kind of a party. I don't see any way to do it safely. If you felt OK about the risk, maybe you could invite the birthday girl over for a playdate, or take both girls out for patio dining or a picnic if that's a possibility given the weather? I would personally schedule that before the party, or 3 weeks after.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: StarBright on November 06, 2020, 11:21:58 AM
We went to one but when we got there there were at least 50 people and we were the only folks wearing masks. We did not feel safe so I let my daughter give her friend his present and then I took her for ice cream.

We have turned down all other invitations.

I would not take my children to any indoor party right now.

I agree with setting up outdoor playdates for your child and her friends.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Laura33 on November 06, 2020, 11:51:34 AM
Not that party, no way in hell.

We have allowed DS (14) to go to a "walk around in the mall" birthday party that was chaperoned by two parents who paid attention to masks and social distancing, but we drove him there/back to avoid close car time.

We allowed DS to go to friends' movie evenings with a family that had a projector and the kid brought their own blankets/towels to hang out on the lawn. 

We allowed DS to have his own birthday party with four friends watching movies on the back deck with masks and all, and parental control over where the chairs go.

All of this is assisted by the fact that DS is a very responsible kid for a dumbass teenage boy. 

OP:  you have a very, very reasonable concern about your daughter's happiness.  That doesn't mean that the solution is to throw her in to a situation you know is unsafe.  It does mean that you should look for ways to help her get more friend interaction in a safer way.  What about inviting the friend to a one-on-one celebration lunch?  Or looking for things DD can do with smaller groups of kids in a more controlled environment?   
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: maisymouser on November 06, 2020, 01:02:40 PM
Nope, nope, nope. That IS absolutely nuts. Just based on the judgement of the parent holding the party, I would not opt to send my kid to that kind of event without being able to closely monitor any precautions they might say they are taking.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: chemistk on November 06, 2020, 01:21:10 PM
Agree with others here, not that party - not in a longshot.

One of my son's best friends who goes to a different elementary school in our district ended up getting Covid from his grandparent who was sick but hadn't had a test yet. Many at the party actually ended up getting Covid, but it was primarily family only at the party. We didn't attend and haven't seen them since before the friend's birthday. (we're good friends with these people, and I'm not open to discussing their choices). So, it definitely happens at birthday parties!

If we were to have him go to one, it would be one where only other kids from his Kindergarten classroom went (he's in person), and there were reasonable precautions taken including limiting the family members who can attend. But even then, I'd have strong hesitations now that it's colder and most parties are going to be indoors.

But that party? Nope.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Queen Frugal on November 06, 2020, 02:05:25 PM
Thank you @chemist, @Laura33, @StarBright, @KCM5, @TheFrenchCat, and @GuitarStv for sharing what you are doing. I feel like I am in this artificial bubble and I don't know how the rest of the real world is actually getting through this stuff.

You are all right - it's stupid crazy to be having an indoor swim party right now. Oh wait - I already said that. I just wasn't sure I should listen to myself. :)

I set up an outside play date with another friend for the day of the party and my daughter is super excited. We're going to the dog park.

Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Freedomin5 on November 06, 2020, 03:27:13 PM
I’ll chime in with a No as well.

If this is your daughter’s best friend, have your daughter offer to take her out one-on-one to somewhere fun where you can monitor and they can social distance.

Also, this is a great opportunity to teach your daughter that if she is lonely, she can do something about it. She’s not the victim here where she “isn’t allowed to go to in person school” or “go to a birthday party with 60 kids” and therefore feel crushed. She has power to take initiative to reach out to others in a way that is safe. Rather than be a follower (follow her friends to school, follow others to an unsafe party), she can choose her own path and still meet her own needs.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: JustTrying on November 09, 2020, 09:30:54 PM
I wouldn't let my kid go to that party, but I think there are ways you can battle that loneliness in a safer manner! I've found that get-togethers with others just take a lot of consent and agreement. We've had many get-togethers with others during COVID. The vast majority have been outside and with masks on. My kid is not the type to touch and climb on other kids, so I'm chill with her having masks off while outside as I can trust her to not get super close to the other kids. Unfortunately, I can't trust most other kids to do the same, so usually we mask up even when outdoors. We've had a handful of indoor get-togethers with one kid at a time, and we always mask up and stay 6 feet away. Maybe have her skip the party but then plan a get-together with just one other friend on occasion?
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Plugging Along on November 11, 2020, 08:31:40 AM
I get the toll that isolation can take.  I have a teen who has been diagnosed with depression  and anxiety before COVID started.  Mental health is our most important issue above COVID.   That being said, we will not out her in high COVID scenarios.    We deem risk factors that have large number of people (more than 5), indoors, inability for social distancing, people that we do not know well,  people that do not mask or take safety precautions, food sharing, heavy breathing/singing, shouting, ect.    So by your description, there is no way my child would be going.

We have gone to gatherings that were outside.  Distance was still maintain, with a small group, and we even brought our own food.   I left my kids go out with friends out side, which is harder because was blizzarding yesterday.   With enough snow, we will allow them to have sledding and skating parties.  They go on outside gatherings and okay dates with a few friend and safety measures in place. 
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: mizzourah2006 on November 11, 2020, 10:40:28 AM
We've gone to two. One was outdoors in late June and there were only about 8 kids there from like 3 families. Not ideal, but not like it was kids from all over town. The more recent one my daughter went to was indoors, but it was with only a subset of her classmates (~10). We figured that because she is indoors with them all day anyway and they aren't wearing masks at school (4 & 5). It wasn't a huge risk. But all of this is very personal, don't do what doesn't make you feel comfortable.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Gin1984 on November 11, 2020, 10:58:22 AM
Absolutely not.  I am in quarantine for the next week (and have been for the last week) because someone with SARS-CoV2 came over to me while I was eating lunch outside to talk to me and he has SAR-CoV2.  Not what I am willing to risk.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: cool7hand on November 11, 2020, 12:47:03 PM
Heck no
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: meandmyfamily on November 11, 2020, 01:17:09 PM
If she is a good swimmer and could be dropped off and if the party was small I would allow it.  I would not if it is a large gathering.  If it is open to the public probably not.  I would ask the parents more about the size etc.  We have found mental health to be very important to balance with all our kids.  If I said no, I would set-up something with her good friend at a later date just the two of them and maybe outside.

Two of my kids have done swim team since May but it is outside where we live and we have number restrictions.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Queen Frugal on November 11, 2020, 02:03:32 PM
OP here.

I saw pictures on FB of the swim party. It wasn't as bad as I feared, but still I counted at least 10 kiddos in the pictures, all huddled together for a good FB shot, no masks. We only knew one of them. It seems this was a family affair with a few close friends invited to the party.

My daughter ended up having a great time with her other friend one on one.

We did promise to get together with the birthday girl in a few weeks though I'm not sure how we will handle that. It's awful cold out now and cases in our county are exploding at the moment.

I'm so glad we have a new president and a vaccine on the horizon, but this is going to be a long dark winter for sure!

Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Car Jack on November 19, 2020, 09:36:40 AM

Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?

Really?  That's a real question?  Of course not.  (and my kids are 20 and 24 and could drive themselves to the party)
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Hula Hoop on November 19, 2020, 11:30:37 AM
Our daughter is turning 9 next week.  We've invited a few girls who are all in her class (in person schooling) to the park after school to roller skate and play.  Kids will be in masks.  I'm making individually wrapped cupcakes for each kid and handing out individual snacks and juice boxes. We plan to be very vigilant about social distancing and mask wearing but the kids here in Italy know the drill.  I should point out that the situation here isn't good but not as bad as many parts of the US or other parts of Italy.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: ixtap on November 19, 2020, 11:54:53 AM
Our daughter is turning 9 next week.  We've invited a few girls who are all in her class (in person schooling) to the park after school to roller skate and play.  Kids will be in masks.  I'm making individually wrapped cupcakes for each kid and handing out individual snacks and juice boxes. We plan to be very vigilant about social distancing and mask wearing but the kids here in Italy know the drill.  I should point out that the situation here isn't good but not as bad as many parts of the US or other parts of Italy.

This seems eminently sensible.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Blue Skies on November 19, 2020, 06:30:12 PM
We really ramped up the outdoor activities with friends in the late summer/early fall because cases were low here and it was still warm enough to hang out outside all day.  I wanted to give the kids a chance to get a bit of normalcy back before we went into hiding again this winter.  We did a couple of small outdoor birthday parties during that time.
Now, cases are going way up again, and it is COLD!  Indoor visits are not looking good to me.  The kids aren't feeling too secluded yet though.  They are getting much better about facetime/google meeting with their friends too, so that even if they can't get together in person they are still hanging out with friends multiple times a week.
If your child is feeling lonely, find a friend that will do facetime visits.  My youngest plays with dolls and other toys virtually with her friends, and it seems to work fine for them.  Honestly, I think the parents like it too because no one has to drive to drop off/pick up the kids and it keeps them occupied.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Hula Hoop on November 20, 2020, 02:36:55 AM
My almost 9 year old was doing this with some kids from her class when we were completely locked down during spring.  It was too many kids and too much shouting and often ended up degenerating into chaos.  It worked much better when it was just her and her best friend although, since it was on my phone, they ended up just sending stickers back and forth a lot of the time.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Michael in ABQ on March 06, 2021, 01:39:33 PM
We let our 9-year old son go to a birthday party with a classmate yesterday. They've been in school in person since August (no cases in the school so far). There was about 7-8 boys and all but one of them were from the same class (plus the birthday boy's two siblings and parents).
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: EricEng on March 08, 2021, 11:40:25 AM
We let our 9-year old son go to a birthday party with a classmate yesterday. They've been in school in person since August (no cases in the school so far). There was about 7-8 boys and all but one of them were from the same class (plus the birthday boy's two siblings and parents).
That seems reasonable now.  Back when they posted this in November, Covid was raging at it's worst we have ever seen.

I also would support this if the adults in your household have been vaccinated.  Not the official advice, but I will favor more risks post vaccination unless we see another big spike.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: LiveLean on March 22, 2021, 01:19:44 PM
We've been in in-person school since August, five days a week.

We've been in Boy Scouts uninterrupted aside from mid-March to mid-May.

Sports have gone on uninterrupted.

Our guys are 18 and 16 and have been to numerous b-day parties in the last year.

It's great to live in Florida!
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: dougstash on March 22, 2021, 07:23:31 PM
Yep. Kids are in the lowest risk group. They have a fatality rate of something like a 0.01%

I’d never rob my kid of his childhood over odds like that.  Best not to live in fear. It’s not healthy
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: EricEng on March 23, 2021, 02:17:17 PM
Yep. Kids are in the lowest risk group. They have a fatality rate of something like a 0.01%

I’d never rob my kid of his childhood over odds like that.  Best not to live in fear. It’s not healthy
All depends on what vulnerable people your kid interacts with. You don't ban kid activities to protect the kids really.  It's to protect the rest of the household and family who might not be so resilient.

Best not to live foolish.  It's not healthy either.  And actually fear exists to keep you alive...those with 0 fear mostly die off.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: charis on March 23, 2021, 02:21:19 PM
We are hosting a party soon but it will be mostly outside with masks and all the children are classmates at school so they are exposed to each indoors every week.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Sugaree on March 23, 2021, 02:22:20 PM
My parents, my in-laws, and I are now fully vaccinated and my husband got his first shot yesterday.  So, yes we're starting to let the kiddo do more stuff in public though we prefer outdoor activities.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Snowman99 on April 05, 2021, 12:59:06 AM
COVID was a very minor cold when our whole family got it. Assuming you and those in your bubble aren’t morbidly obese, diabetic, or have lung issues, I wouldn’t worry about it. Life is too short and you are only a kid once. I’m assuming you let your kids ride bikes, for example, which carries far more risk.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: EricEng on April 05, 2021, 11:47:11 AM
COVID was a very minor cold when our whole family got it. Assuming you and those in your bubble aren’t morbidly obese, diabetic, or have lung issues, I wouldn’t worry about it. Life is too short and you are only a kid once. I’m assuming you let your kids ride bikes, for example, which carries far more risk.
It isn't and this thinking is why covid has persisted so much in US.  True, it is not much of a risk to your kids, maybe not even to you.  However, who will you spread it to you and who will they spread it to?  A broken arm from riding a bicycle isn't contagious or life threatening to others in your community.

For reference, we have about 200,000 child bike injures a year treated at ER, most being bruises, scrapes, and cuts.
https://www.nationwidechildrens.org/newsroom/news-releases/2018/06/bike-injuries-study
As for deaths, it averages about 100 a year children die on bicycles in US.  That puts the death rate per child lower than children dying to covid (both are super rare)

You are fortunate that it was only a minor cold for you.  For many it has been anything, but minor.  I'm not saying totally isolate, but keeping some caution is beneficial to society as a whole.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: charis on April 05, 2021, 12:43:55 PM
We recently hosted a party and it was mostly outside but we ate in a shelter that was open on two sides. They were masked unless eating and all the adults in attendence were vaccinated.  It was a good party that I would do under non pandemic circumstances, and the kids hardly notice the masks anymore anyway.

Kids should be outside as much as possible anyway and the only people traumatized by masks are anti-maskers who have brought it upon themselves by taking their opposition so seriously.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Snowman99 on April 05, 2021, 09:37:46 PM
You are fortunate that it was only a minor cold for you.  For many it has been anything, but minor.  I'm not saying totally isolate, but keeping some caution is beneficial to society as a whole.
[/quote]

Exactly how beneficial to society is keeping my children from birthday parties? Can you even have a society (you would want to live in) without birthday parties? Probably not. This is not a dangerous disease to healthy people and the “many” you refer to above were not so healthy to begin with. Birthday parties are a perfectly reasonable risk for my little bubble,  but we eat healthy and exercise. If your bubble has some vulnerable people then you do you and in the interim please spare me the moral judgment about going to kid birthday parties.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: charis on April 06, 2021, 01:56:53 AM
Eating healthy and exercise does not prevent one from getting severely ill or having serious, lasting problems from covid.  And someone from our "bubble" can infect a vulnerable person, regardless of our intentions.  It's not a moral judgment to acknowledge this.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: maisymouser on April 06, 2021, 02:49:50 AM
Exactly how beneficial to society is keeping my children from birthday parties? Can you even have a society (you would want to live in) without birthday parties? Probably not. This is not a dangerous disease to healthy people and the “many” you refer to above were not so healthy to begin with. Birthday parties are a perfectly reasonable risk for my little bubble,  but we eat healthy and exercise. If your bubble has some vulnerable people then you do you and in the interim please spare me the moral judgment about going to kid birthday parties.

Your post is chock-full of ageism, false assumptions, and a lack of acknowledgement that you could transmit COVID-19 to others outside your bubble unintentionally.

It reads "if you aren't healthy / under 65 / have chronic/genetic/uncontrollable conditions, you deserve to get COVID".

A lot of about the COVID-19 pandemic to me is about SOLIDARITY. I wear a mask in public even though I'm vaccinated because I stand in SOLIDARITY with those who haven't been vaccinated. I wouldn't send my kid to a birthday party because I stand in SOLIDARITY with the kids/parents that are not allowed or able to until we get to a larger quantity of vaccinated individuals.

As a separate poster, I am fine with admitting that I am judging your attitude, but it really does seems like a really unethical and selfish one.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: charis on April 06, 2021, 05:24:21 AM
A gathering doesn't suddenly become unsafe because it involves the celebration of a birthday, or any other occasion. So if it's a low risk activity to begin with, I think abstaining in solidarity takes it a little far (though fine, obviously it's not hurting others). I still go to the grocery store and send my kids to school even though I know that others cannot. 
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Snowman99 on April 06, 2021, 06:13:28 AM
Exactly how beneficial to society is keeping my children from birthday parties? Can you even have a society (you would want to live in) without birthday parties? Probably not. This is not a dangerous disease to healthy people and the “many” you refer to above were not so healthy to begin with. Birthday parties are a perfectly reasonable risk for my little bubble,  but we eat healthy and exercise. If your bubble has some vulnerable people then you do you and in the interim please spare me the moral judgment about going to kid birthday parties.

Your post is chock-full of ageism, false assumptions, and a lack of acknowledgement that you could transmit COVID-19 to others outside your bubble unintentionally.

It reads "if you aren't healthy / under 65 / have chronic/genetic/uncontrollable conditions, you deserve to get COVID".

A lot of about the COVID-19 pandemic to me is about SOLIDARITY. I wear a mask in public even though I'm vaccinated because I stand in SOLIDARITY with those who haven't been vaccinated. I wouldn't send my kid to a birthday party because I stand in SOLIDARITY with the kids/parents that are not allowed or able to until we get to a larger quantity of vaccinated individuals.

As a separate poster, I am fine with admitting that I am judging your attitude, but it really does seems like a really unethical and selfish one.

Again with the moral judgments. And you are unilaterally assuming my "attitude" and calling me an "ageist" because I think birthday parties are perfectly OK for my children. Obviously nobody deserves to get COVID and that is clearly not what I said (the benefit of written posts). It appears you have to build up a moralist straw man argument and vilify me to make the ridiculous case against birthday parties.  I think you need to start spending more time outside because it appears quarantine is making you a negative person.  Note that I have no judgment about your decision to keep your kids away from birthday parties.  You are perfectly free to do you.  Have fun inside.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Snowman99 on April 06, 2021, 06:19:06 AM
Eating healthy and exercise does not prevent one from getting severely ill or having serious, lasting problems from covid.  And someone from our "bubble" can infect a vulnerable person, regardless of our intentions.  It's not a moral judgment to acknowledge this.

My whole extended family, including my 70 year old parents, got it and are totally fine.  Just a minor cold.  You can also get struck by lightening if you go outside too, but that's not stopping anybody.  Read the CDC statistics about the risk of death.  All life involves risk. 
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: GuitarStv on April 06, 2021, 06:55:56 AM
It's fascinating that over a year into a world wide pandemic that has caused 2.86 million deaths (and an unknown but likely much higher number of people suffering from non-fatal but long term symptoms) that people keep repeating that covid is no different than a minor cold.  A year ago I'd have never expected that wanting to take your kid to a birthday party would be cause enough to blatantly deny reality - yet here we are.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Cranky on April 06, 2021, 07:14:59 AM
I'm stuck on the idea that a life without birthday parties is a life not worth living. ;-)

Since I personally know a healthy athletic 18yo who was extremely ill, and a 35yo who died from Covid, I tend towards caution. I made my kids wear bike helmets and not ride bikes in the street. We get out of the pool when there's lightening in the area.

Having said that, my 5yo grandson went to a bday party last month, and we were all quite happy about that - the family rented the movie theatre, there were 5 families invited, each family sat apart, and everyone wore masks. A good time was had by all!

All the adults in our extended household have now been vaccinated, and play dates outside have resumed. We'll be doing outside activities this summer, and keeping an eye on the new variants which seem to infect kids more easily.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: StarBright on April 06, 2021, 07:57:54 AM
I'm stuck on the idea that a life without birthday parties is a life not worth living. ;-)

Since I personally know a healthy athletic 18yo who was extremely ill, and a 35yo who died from Covid, I tend towards caution. I made my kids wear bike helmets and not ride bikes in the street. We get out of the pool when there's lightening in the area.


I definitely feel like proximity to severe illness early on shapes how people deal with COVID. A family friend was the first person to die in my parent's state and I had a colleague my age who caught it very early on as well, even though he was only going to the grocery and was masked. He was early enough that he was basically proof of community spread in our area.

And we're on the more cautious side of things - so we send our kids to school, but they don't participate in sports leagues or go places where there won't be social distancing.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Laserjet3051 on April 06, 2021, 09:40:35 AM
Yes. Not only would i allow my daughters to go to birthday parties, i would encourage them to do so.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Snowman99 on April 06, 2021, 10:03:14 AM
It's fascinating that over a year into a world wide pandemic that has caused 2.86 million deaths (and an unknown but likely much higher number of people suffering from non-fatal but long term symptoms) that people keep repeating that covid is no different than a minor cold.  A year ago I'd have never expected that wanting to take your kid to a birthday party would be cause enough to blatantly deny reality - yet here we are.

The reality is that I got it, my whole family got it, and it was just a cold.  That's what is was for us.  Are you denying that reality?  Are you denying that that is the real risk for most middle aged parents contemplating sending their kids to a birthday party?  Nobody is denying that it could be worse, that it doesn't exist, or that some people, even a lot of people, have died with COVID.  But for almost everyone thinking about taking their kids to a birthday party, the risk is more or less getting a cold with the exceptionally slight chance of this hitting you hard.  If you have a resting heart rate of 47 and eat vegan most days and oily fish on the others, then you are probably going to be OK. 

Look, if you are vulnerable I get it.  If you are risk averse, I get it.  People are free to make their choices about their health.  If you think it is wise to stay away, then by all means stay away.  I won't think anything less of you for it.  What I find fascinating is why a perfect stranger on an anonymous online forum about investing cares about whether Snowman99 (who is immune to both receiving and giving COVID right now, btw) takes his children to a hypothetical birthday party that will be occupied by other people who have similarly made their choice to be there.  Don't hate on the birthday party goers and disrespect how they decide to take on risk.  Just as I'm not going to hate on you for staying home.

I'm forgiving everybody for what they do and what they say during all of this because solitary confinement is the worst form of punishment that is allowed short of the death penalty in the West and everyone has been experiencing at least just a little bit of it in some form for over a year. Given the amount of media and social media out there, it's almost like we've been strapped in Clockwork Orange style as well.  I truly feel bad for those who lash out at the people who have made the reasonable and calculated decision to live their lives after considering all of the risks.  This is not meant to be a joke or condescending.  I hope for all the best for all and that they get through this with their sanity.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: GuitarStv on April 06, 2021, 10:31:52 AM
It's fascinating that over a year into a world wide pandemic that has caused 2.86 million deaths (and an unknown but likely much higher number of people suffering from non-fatal but long term symptoms) that people keep repeating that covid is no different than a minor cold.  A year ago I'd have never expected that wanting to take your kid to a birthday party would be cause enough to blatantly deny reality - yet here we are.

The reality is that I got it, my whole family got it, and it was just a cold.  That's what is was for us.  Are you denying that reality?

Nope.  Many young healthy people will recover from covid.  Just as some young healthy people will die, and an unknown number will develop long term complications and problems.  I'm glad that you and your family are OK after contracting the disease.


Are you denying that that is the real risk for most middle aged parents contemplating sending their kids to a birthday party?  Nobody is denying that it could be worse, that it doesn't exist, or that some people, even a lot of people, have died with COVID.

Comparing covid to a cold and saying that people won't get very sick from it so don't need to take precautions sure sounds like you're "denying that it could be worse".  But I'll be happy to give you another chance - knowing that some perfectly healthy adults will die from covid exposure, and not knowing the number of people who will end up with long term symptoms of the disease . . . are you denying that there is a very real risk to attending this sort of gathering - both for the attendees and the other people you encounter?  I'm getting a very strong impression that you are - hence my comment about denying reality.


But for almost everyone thinking about taking their kids to a birthday party, the risk is more or less getting a cold with the exceptionally slight chance of this hitting you hard.

Can you show me the data you're using to determine that there is an 'exceptionally slight chance of this hitting you hard' because you've had children?

The news has focused heavily upon death counts (which are much lower for younger people) but not paid as much attention to the long term problems that people are having from this disease:
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This report indicates that even among symptomatic adults tested in outpatient settings, it might take weeks for resolution of symptoms and return to usual health. Not returning to usual health within 2–3 weeks of testing was reported by approximately one third of respondents. Even among young adults aged 18–34 years with no chronic medical conditions, nearly one in five reported that they had not returned to their usual state of health 14–21 days after testing. In contrast, over 90% of outpatients with influenza recover within approximately 2 weeks of having a positive test result
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7392393/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7392393/)


If you have a resting heart rate of 47 and eat vegan most days and oily fish on the others, then you are probably going to be OK.

Again, please provide the data you're using to make this pronouncement.


(who is immune to both receiving and giving COVID right now, btw)

This is false.  After getting covid you have a little under a 1 in 20 chance of getting it again (https://www.livemint.com/news/india/icmr-study-finds-covid-19-reinfection-in-4-5-cases-11617286851986.html (https://www.livemint.com/news/india/icmr-study-finds-covid-19-reinfection-in-4-5-cases-11617286851986.html)).  The best data we currently have says that if you're infected with covid you can transmit it to others.


I'm forgiving everybody for what they do and what they say during all of this because solitary confinement is the worst form of punishment that is allowed short of the death penalty in the West and everyone has been experiencing at least just a little bit of it in some form for over a year. Given the amount of media and social media out there, it's almost like we've been strapped in Clockwork Orange style as well.  I truly feel bad for those who lash out at the people who have made the reasonable and calculated decision to live their lives after considering all of the risks.  This is not meant to be a joke or condescending.  I hope for all the best for all and that they get through this with their sanity.

How you live your life is, of course, completely up to you.  Your risk assessments are certainly your own to make.  Discussion of reality and fact needs to be supported by science though - not gut feeling and wishful thinking.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Jimbo on April 06, 2021, 10:37:12 AM
Americans living their life like they have free healthcare....
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Snowman99 on April 06, 2021, 10:45:23 AM
GuitarStv’s head is literally exploding right now. It’s ok to play outside. The water is warm!
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: EricEng on April 06, 2021, 03:43:57 PM
This is not a dangerous disease to healthy people and the “many” you refer to above were not so healthy to begin with. Birthday parties are a perfectly reasonable risk for my little bubble,  but we eat healthy and exercise. If your bubble has some vulnerable people then you do you and in the interim please spare me the moral judgment about going to kid birthday parties.
60% of Americans have a chronic condition.
https://www.rand.org/blog/rand-review/2017/07/chronic-conditions-in-america-price-and-prevalence.html
So who cares if they all die I guess?  The fact that most of the people who died have a chronic condition doesn't mean it's not dangerous, it just means most Americans have a chronic condition and it is more likely than not that someone who died had a chronic condition, even if it had no factor in the lethality of covid.  You have confused correlation and causation.  Somechronic conditions DO make covid death (among many other deaths) more likely I'll admit, but to blanket call all covid deaths being caused by chronic conditions is false.

Quote
If you have a resting heart rate of 47 and eat vegan most days and oily fish on the others, then you are probably going to be OK.
Hurray for pseudo science BS.  I'm sure you swear by Emergen-C to boost your immune system too.  Not saying those activities you mentioned are bad, but they play little roll in whether you will get severily ill or die.  Many super fit people have been hospitalized or died because this virus behaves odd to say the least.

I definitely feel like proximity to severe illness early on shapes how people deal with COVID. A family friend was the first person to die in my parent's state and I had a colleague my age who caught it very early on as well, even though he was only going to the grocery and was masked.
This is very true.  Some people won't believe it unless it kills or maims someone dear to them, until then it is a fake number.  My parents didn't believe it until multiple of their elderly friends and former schoolmates died of it.  Then they went from not believing at all to terrified.  In snowman's case, he was extremely lucky with his social circle and now assumes the multi million deaths are from "just a cold".  Last I checked, colds don't rack up that kind of kill count.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: EngineerOurFI on April 12, 2021, 09:20:34 AM
Basically all of my kids friends parents are vaccinated -- including the ones that had COVID19 already.  Most of my kids friends grandparents are also vaccinated.  It's getting incredibly easy to get a vaccine appointment in my area - I just did a search and there are ten available Johnson and Johnson appointments at Walgreens locations within 15 miles of me.  That's literally just Walgreens - obviously you could get a vaccine at dozens of other locations.  In other words, anyone in my bubble or bubble-adjacent who wants to get a vaccine has ready access to it and - for the most part - has gotten it.  We've been very careful throughout the entire pandemic, but all of the evidence suggests that the Pfizer/Moderna/J&J vaccines are very safe, provide a decent length of protection, and the latest news indicates that the vaccines prevent you from being a carrier or spreader of the virus. 

However, the reality is we have a shocking number of folks that have "vaccine hesitancy" and based on the polls I've seen saying only 22% of Catholics plan to get the vaccine and 40% of marines are declining the vaccine...we may never reach anywhere approaching 80-90% vaccination rates.  So to me all I can do is make sure my immediate family, my extended family (uncles/aunts/grandparents), and my immediate friend bubble (the parents and grandparents and caretakers of kids my kids frequently play with) are vaccinated.  After that, I just have to rely on the fact that our family has received vaccines for the adults and that all the evidence seems to indicate kids aren't rampant spreaders of COVID19 and aren't susceptible to nearly the same level of risks.  Because if our goal here is to wait until we hit some magical 95% vaccination rate.....doesn't look like that's going to happen ANYTIME soon even if vaccines were 100% available.  So for me it would be a yes with two caveats:


Our family has made the conscious choice that going forward, since vaccines are now readily available in our area, we will not be HOSTING any event at our house (Thanksgiving, Christmas, parties, whatever) where invitees are not vaccinated (assuming they are of age to receive vaccinations).  However, as someone that is vaccinated, it honestly doesn't bother me to ATTEND an event where there are some unvaccinated people because I know that my family will be fine.  I just refuse to host any event where folks aren't vaccinated because I don't want to essentially enable the spreading at my house/my event due to some idiots individuals not being vaccinated.  This may cause issues with my mother, because she's become an anti-vaxxer over the past 12 months (/facepalm) and I'm literally about to call her today to have what will likely be an uncomfortable conversation where I let her know that she politely won't be invited to events at my house until she gets the vaccine (just now having this conversation since the vaccines have become drastically more available/accessible in our area).

If either of my kids had substantive pre-existing conditions (they do not) then I probably would feel differently until such time as the kids could be safely vaccinated, of course.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: EricEng on April 13, 2021, 05:51:04 PM
Quote
22% of Catholics plan to get the vaccine and 40% of marines are declining the vaccine...
These are two different cases.  In the case of the Marines I think they taking the perspective of self sacrificing so that others can get the vaccine first, I've seen some polling of military to support this. Marines tend to be the healthiest Americans you'll find on average, so they think they can take the hit better.

The Catholics though are right in there with the White Evangelical groups that supported the former pres and are showing an extremely high vaccine hesitancy.  Their reasons vary from divine protection to conspiracy theories to religious views opposing.  My point is I wouldn't lump the Marines in with the Religious Right, two different issues.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: GuitarStv on April 13, 2021, 06:09:21 PM
The Catholics though are right in there with the White Evangelical groups that supported the former pres and are showing an extremely high vaccine hesitancy.  Their reasons vary from divine protection to conspiracy theories to religious views opposing.  My point is I wouldn't lump the Marines in with the Religious Right, two different issues.

Seems really weird.  Didn't the pope tell Catholics that they had a moral obligation to get vaccinated?  It's weird that Trump holds more sway over US Catholics than the head of their religious organization.
Title: Re: Would you allow your kid to go to a birthday party during COVID?
Post by: Sugaree on April 14, 2021, 03:47:52 AM
The Catholics though are right in there with the White Evangelical groups that supported the former pres and are showing an extremely high vaccine hesitancy.  Their reasons vary from divine protection to conspiracy theories to religious views opposing.  My point is I wouldn't lump the Marines in with the Religious Right, two different issues.

Seems really weird.  Didn't the pope tell Catholics that they had a moral obligation to get vaccinated?  It's weird that Trump holds more sway over US Catholics than the head of their religious organization.

Some archdioceses have said that the vaccines are unacceptable because of the use of fetal cell lines in the production and/or development of them.