The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Mini Money Mustaches => Topic started by: Sugaree on February 20, 2019, 05:22:27 AM
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My kid asked last night when he was going to get his own cell phone. He's in Kindergarten. He really only wants it to play games on. I blame DH for letting him put 1000 games on his phone. It was already pretty much a given that he would end up getting a phone much earlier than I did since we haven't had a landline in 15+ years. I just thought that we'd make it until at least 4th grade before I had to deal with the begging for one. I'm still saying 4th grade, but I suspect that if he's said anything to the in-laws then they will indulge him.
When did your kids get their first phone? What kind was it? What's the best pre-paid plan for kids? What kind of parental controls do you use?
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I've seen kids as young as 4 with their own cell phones (those modified versions with 3 pro-programmed buttons for calling Mom, Dad & Caretaker). At present we're saying absolutely no way we're allowing a cell phone before 6th grade. My niece is entering 4th in the SF Bay area and the pull for a cell phone is strong, but so far her parents have resisted.
Worth noting that at least one government advisor in Germany is calling ofr an outright ban on smartphones for children under the age of 14, citing the growing body of evidence for the negative effects it has on developing brains.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/02/15/german-government-adviser-recommends-ban-smartphones-children-younger-than/?utm_term=.93b758dff8b2 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/02/15/german-government-adviser-recommends-ban-smartphones-children-younger-than/?utm_term=.93b758dff8b2)
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I have three children. They each get one the summer before they start high school. That is when they start staying after school for clubs and doing other activities and need to be picked up at different times. Yes, they think this is completely unfair and dorky. Also, they are not allowed to have them in their room at night. They have to be plugged in at the kitchen table before bedtime.
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This is a timely discussion for me. My older daughter is going to middle school next year (she's currently 10 and will be 11 next year). Most kids here seem to get their first cell phones when they start middle school but I'm really nervous about this. I think it's way too young to have the entire internet, not to mention social media, at a kid's fingertips. Since she may start going to and returning from school by herself, we might get her a "dumb" phone so that she can call us - but I think a smart phone will have to wait.
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Following this thread to learn from other families.
We have a 4th grader who is interested in her own phone -- though she knows us well enough to know her first phone will not have internet access. She's begging for a flip phone to start. At her school (which is private, high-income families), about 50% of her 4th - 5th grade classmates have phones, but most of them are not smart phones. Her school does not allow elementary or middle schoolers to have their phones out/about during the day.
Our current thinking is:
1) Flip phone "emergency" phone that lives at the house beginning soon - this would NOT be "her" phone, but would allow us to continue teaching her how to be safely at home alone
2) waiting until middle school for a non-screen/internet phone,
3) waiting until high school for a smart phone
We also do NOT have a landline phone and thus, the phone becomes a limiting factor as we're gradually teaching her how to begin to stay at home alone for short periods of time (have only done 15 min trips within the neighborhood so far - such as picking up the dog from the dog sitter's house, etc.). As she moves to age 10 - 11, we want to gradually lengthen the time she can spend at home alone. We've bought her the American Girl "Staying Home Alone" book to begin those discussions, and right now she does know basics like how to call the police via a button on our home alarm system, knows three neighbors well enough to knock on their doors during an emergency, and we've started discussions about what our daughter would be allowed to cook/watch/do when we're not home, etc. All this is a bit premature since we're not regularly leaving her alone yet, but we're building the knowledge base/expectations for her now.
Since phones invariably bring up issues around mental health, FOMO/social media, sexuality, etc. - we're beginning a sexual health program/curriculum this year (the OWL - Our Whole Lives program, which is not abstinence only based, but is age appropriate and has kids focus on developing/reflecting on their personal and family values). It's super hard for parents (of any belief system) to imagine our kids getting old enough to deal with issues related to self esteem or sexuality, but we're trying to face it head-on and stay "askable" parents.
I'd also recommend the American Girl book on "Digital World" safety and beginning online safety conversations EARLY. Our daughter is pretty well versed on these issues but we continue to build on them. IE, she has a firm understanding that its not safe to "friend"/talk with/etc. "strangers" online, but we have also discussed the more likely scenarios, such as a friend or peer asking her for photos, etc. This article is an important one for both parents of boys and girls: https://www.amightygirl.com/blog?p=22076
In other words, in addition to telling our kids (boys and girls!) DO NOT SEND SELFIES/NUDES, we also need to be telling them, IT'S NOT OK TO ASK/PRESSURE SOMEONE TO SEND YOU A SELFIE/NUDE PHOTO. When I talked with my daughter (in an age appropriate way) about how as she gets older, digital safety and sexual pressure is less likely to come from strangers, but rather from a boy/girl she likes or respects, it helped us both to envision the ways she could respond.
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We were very tempted to get our 8y old a phone now they started taking the yellow school bus home.
But we resisted. They have an iPad and once in the house can text us if needed. Someone is home or the grandparents meet them most of the time. But twice this year we were grateful for the texts.
We also have a Ring doorbell so we know when they get home.
I think they only “need” a phone when they are going to activities alone. Even then, we never had phones back in the day.
You can probably go a few more years with a WiFi only device.
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I think my husband gave kid #1 an old phone (WiFi only) when he upgraded, at age 9. Without discussing it with me. Ahem. It wasn't very useful.
That got dropped and broken.
It eventually got replaced around age 10 or 11. At 12, he got a phone number and it turned into a real phone. That was the age when he started walking home from school by himself (2nd half of 6th grade), and also started going on bike rides with friends.
Now he's almost 13 and in junior high. So he has to get himself home from school sometimes. He doesn't take the phone to school though. Most of the girls do (their parents want them to have phones if they are walking home).
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Mine got flip phones at 11, which they basically refused to use, or keep turned on. It turns out they didn't have any interest in having a literal telephone, they wanted a pocket computer to play games on and show off to their friends as a status symbol.
They got smart phones at 13, with restricted data and all app permissions turned off, a parental monitoring tool installed, parents given full access to the very limited set of social media platforms, and no permission to install new apps. And we STILL had problems with inappropriate usage.
As soon as your kids get phones, they are going to cause problems. Just accept that it's part of the process, once you cross that line. You need to have a continuing dialogue about proper usage, the dangers of sharing information, and the foreverness of the internet.
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Mine got flip phones at 11, which they basically refused to use, or keep turned on. It turns out they didn't have any interest in having a literal telephone, they wanted a pocket computer to play games on and show off to their friends as a status symbol.
Funny how early that starts in life
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DS received an iPod for music around age 9. We gave him a dumb cellphone for his 11th birthday because he was increasingly involved in activities away from us & took good care of his iPod. The phone did not have internet access or games. He needed access to a computer for school work but we kept it in a common area & installed net nanny software on it until he was 16. We gave him an iPhone at 16.
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We got my 3rd grader his own used iphone for Christmas. We have it set up for him to use for music and to use as a camera. It doesn't work to make calls or text. We don't put games on it, but if we did, our electronics rules would still apply. He had been asking for a phone and has been very happy with this arrangement. His older brother got a functioning phone (no data) when he started walking home.
In my experience, young kids are pretty happy with anything called a phone. Actually, when my oldest was in kindergarten we gave him a broken flip phone that became a treasured possession for years.
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Setting aside the internet and gaming, both of which can be disabled, I don't see what the problem with giving a small child a telephone is as long as they know how to use it (and when it needs to be turned off), not to call 911 for no reason, and won't lose it.
Our 6 year old likes to wander around and do his own thing, and it's annoying to have to wander around the neighborhood shouting for him when it's dinnertime. I'd get him a phone in a hot second if I thought he could keep track of it, but it would get lost in the first several days, I'm sure.
So I think this question should really be split into 2 parts:
-When should a kid get a *telephone*
-When should a kid get a *smart phone*
I'd say, personally, whenever they can handle using it responsibly, in both cases.
-W
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When she had enough money to buy her own phone at age 13.
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My oldest got a prepaid flip phone in 4th or 5th when he started staying home alone for tiny periods of time. He got my old smart phone in 6th since I was able to get a free new phone for myself ad 4 gb data for life for adding a line for him. After a year of keeping up with it, we upgraded his phone for Christmas in 7th. He has sports and is dropped off in a not so great area at night for a couple years now and travels with the team; I didn't want him relying on someone else having a phone if needed.
My first grader is getting a gizmowatch ($5/month) for his 7th bday since we are currently going through a divorce, and his dad is not exactly the best.
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Wow, around here kids in 4th or 5th grade are babysitting, let alone staying home on their own. That starts around age 6 or 7 here (Utah). When our 6 year old doesn't want to come to our 4 year old's soccer "game" or something, he just hangs out at the house with instructions not to cook anything, and one of our phones to call/text us if needed.
Maybe we're weirdly old-school? Is it normal to not trust kids to be home on their own until like 11?!?
-W
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In some states, they can't stay home alone by law until they are around 10. My state doesn't expressly forbid it, but I don't know if I'd do it. I'm more concerned about some busybody reporting me to child services than I am something actually happening to him.
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Here in Italy, it's actually illegal to leave kids home alone until they are 14 (eye roll!) However, it's normal for kids to walk or take public transit to school at 11.
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Yeah, I guess we're just weird here. I think nothing in particular of letting my 6 year old wander around on his own or be home alone. When I was in kindergarden I started walking myself to school, as I dimly recall. It was only maybe 1/4 mile, though.
Utah has an actual law about this:
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/03/31/utahs-free-range-parenting-law-said-to-be-first-in-the-nation/
It's totally normal in our neighborhood for young elementary age kids to be out riding their bikes or just generally making trouble. It would make me sad if it wasn't that way.
Back on topic: to me, a phone (telephone, that is) is *helpful* in helping kids do stuff on their own without a parent hanging over them the whole time. As such I view phones as a positive way to encourage independence. There's really no downside, other than the potential for losing/breaking the phone.
Smart phones/the internet is another story.
-W
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We have seven kids. The two youngest (15 & 16) don't have cell phones. The older ones got phones when they started college.
This is weirdly different from other replies, but it hasn't been an issue in our house. For one thing, there's no peer pressure among our kids' friends to have a phone to show off. Most, not all, of their friends have phones but use them primarily for communicating rather than playing games. Our social circle leans pretty free-range, so the kids hang out together and there's usually at least one phone among them available for emergencies.
It probably also helps that my husband and I only recently (within the last few months) got a smartphone, which we share. No-one in our house has a tablet. Mostly we use the home phone (VOIP) to talk and laptops for games, email, and messaging.
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My 9 year old son is in 4th grade and I got him a cell phone recently. I don't allow him to take it to school and he only brings it with him when he is at a friends or playing outside. I have a tracker on it so I can check up on him any time. He is in a safe place when he is at school and I know school officials would be in touch if anything were to happen. He doesn't need a phone at school, although many of his friends bring theirs to school.
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Wow, around here kids in 4th or 5th grade are babysitting, let alone staying home on their own. That starts around age 6 or 7 here (Utah). When our 6 year old doesn't want to come to our 4 year old's soccer "game" or something, he just hangs out at the house with instructions not to cook anything, and one of our phones to call/text us if needed.
Maybe we're weirdly old-school? Is it normal to not trust kids to be home on their own until like 11?!?
-W
6 is generally too young.
I mean, my 6 yo could probably watch TV for 30 minutes and not get into trouble. But I wouldn't leave him home alone.
I don't even leave the two of them home together (12 and 6). That has more to do with their...interactions, as brothers.
Big kid: 11.
Our school: has age limits for when you can walk home alone
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1st child got Flip phone the summer before middle school. The second during 5th grade to make it easier for me to carpool/pick up from after school sports.
1st child got a Smart phone at 16 so the new driver could use maps if they got lost and the second child at 15.5 so they could participate in the group text messages with their friends.
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I mean, my 6 yo could probably watch TV for 30 minutes and not get into trouble. But I wouldn't leave him home alone.
Our school: has age limits for when you can walk home alone
Wow. Bummer on all counts.
I guess every kid and every school is a little different. But man, I'd be pretty pissed if our school tried to tell me what my kid can and can't do like that.
-W
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If my kids ever get a cell phone it will be a prepaid dumb phone for texting/calling to coordinate schedules with us.
I may be a weirdo Luddite, but not without reason. Worked in tech long enough to witness way too much crazy online: Inappropriate content in unexpected places, loony people, stalkers, exploitation, not to mention the many many layers of badness on social media. A device connected to the cell network is quite difficult to monitor. While there are parental control features on Android they are fairly crude and not nearly enough.
Besides, as someone mentioned up-thread, we're discovering how bad excessive screen time is for young kids. Games and social media trigger the reward feedback loop. Internet companies actively and intentionally built their products to take advantage of this. A developing brain doesn't stand a chance. It's the reason we have laws setting age limits for things like alcohol.
We don't have cable (thankfully!), but we still watch shows. For this the kids have a WiFi only Kindle Fire. The parental controls are decent, with built in screen time limits (unlike 3rd party paid for screen time limit apps on vanilla Android). We limit screen time to 30 min for each child, with it turned off overnight. Have also setup a separate WiFi network for the kids that enforces use of OpenDNS Family Shield, along with filtering at the router level. The DNS and filtering is very strict at this point, will open it up gradually for certain things as they get older. This may seem like overkill, but requires little to no work once configured, and an ounce of prevention...
In short, they can buy smartphones with their own money when they are adults. In the meantime, they can play outside, with Legos, draw and create, play board games, read, or do any number of other activities.
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In short, they can buy smartphones with their own money when they are adults. In the meantime, they can play outside, with Legos, draw and create, play board games, read, or do any number of other activities.
This is almost exactly what I was going to write.
Our oldest is in 5th grade and many if not all his peers in a private Catholic school have phones. I survived without a cell phone until college, so can they. I see very limited upside to a phone (none for a smartphone) and huge potential downside.
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When she had enough money to buy her own phone at age 13.
He asked again last night. And then asked if he could use the money in his bank account to buy a phone. When I told him how much his dad's iPhone cost he thought about it for a minute and then said that he could get a cheaper phone instead. I wasn't sure whether to be proud or annoyed.He wasn't pleased when I still told him no. He has already beaten me at the you-can-get-it-when-you-pay-for-it game. That's why there is a 4 foot tall Batcave sitting in my living room....
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My youngest got his in middle school. It stays in our bedroom overnight. No electronics in his room.
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We have a 12 & 13 year old & they received their first phone at Christmas. They share a phone that can only call & text. They often forget to charge it, but have it to make calls during activities, which often get cancelled this time of year due to weather.
Most of their friends have had phones for years. We also don't allow any gaming of any kind during the school week. Too much other stuff going on - homework, sports, etc.
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As of now my default answer is when somewhere between 40 and 60% of her class has cell phones. Of course she's two now so I may have some time to revise that. Any elementary/middle school teachers want to tell me when 40-60% of the kids have phones these days?
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As of now my default answer is when somewhere between 40 and 60% of her class has cell phones. Of course she's two now so I may have some time to revise that. Any elementary/middle school teachers want to tell me when 40-60% of the kids have phones these days?
Way too early. Not an elementary school teacher, but we wanted to be in the last 25%, and I think we achieved that in our school by waiting until 7th grade.
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My oldest got her first cell going in to grade 4. It was an old used one for wifi, no data plan, and she would use it to text her friends and communicate, We learned that it was hard to get the kids together or heaven forbid TALK on the phone becaus of the different activities the kid had. This surprisely worked well, my child used it primarily for communication to set up activities.
Then she got a data plan in grade 5, but this was cheap $10 add on to ours. The only reason she got this was because the school bus lost her and her sister three times from sept to dec, so for Christmas she got data. With her data plan, we could track her location and phone from anywhere, which normally, I didntl think was necessary, but when they dropped her off at the wrong school, then at a random street, and then left her sister, I had enough.
For her 13th birthday, we got her the full phone. We did it partly because of peer pressure, but this is how her friends communicate. In her school, it’s really difficult to coordinate schedules.
Her sister got a phone in grade 3, primary because she would be at different places that her sister.
I initially felt that grade 3/4 were too young. However, I am really glad I did it then. One of e rules we had was the phone was not private. I could go into her phone any time I wanted to review messages, or general activity. As a result, I was able to see what the kids were doing, and coach on it. There were lots of ‘mean girls’ people saying something stupid, ect. I was able to go over those conversations with her on a nightly basis, and just talk about it what I was seeing and asking her about the events. As a result, I think she had more guidance than most of Er friends, so she never had blow ups and the same drama like th other kids did. Now, I can still go into her phone, but she uses the phone for communicating, and generally removes herself from groups when they start getting gossipy. Having her start at a young age on the phone, gave me the opportunity to teach her in a safe way whereas teens are not nearly as open.
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We don't have cable (thankfully!), but we still watch shows. For this the kids have a WiFi only Kindle Fire. The parental controls are decent, with built in screen time limits (unlike 3rd party paid for screen time limit apps on vanilla Android). We limit screen time to 30 min for each child, with it turned off overnight. Have also setup a separate WiFi network for the kids that enforces use of OpenDNS Family Shield, along with filtering at the router level. The DNS and filtering is very strict at this point, will open it up gradually for certain things as they get older. This may seem like overkill, but requires little to no work once configured, and an ounce of prevention...
Android has the Family options since android 8 and the kid's phone has to be Android 7 or higher. You can limit screentime, whitelist websites, apps need to be allowed by the parent before install and with Youtube kids you can control somewhat what he can see.
Paid apps are also available to the kids' devices but only if paid up front, not in-app purchases. In app-purchases need to be verified by the parent though, no free ride :) The only downside so far is that Google Family works up until 13 years of age, they can then disconnect the device regardless of the parents' views.
As a sysadmin, my son was using a defective older phone for some simple games but which is totally locked down in what he can and cannot do. Basically to prevent him from damaging my expensive phone, but also to gain a measure of control because if I say times up he goes into denial but when the phone says it he's fairly meek about it (so far :P). I still use the app Kidsplace to limit the amount of time he can spend in specific games, but the total screentime is now managed by Android.
If he wants one to call his friends with, he'll have to wait until he's 10 (at least). And even then he still gets a controlled phone where I can see who he calls, how long etc. He has expressed zero interest in that though.
Regarding the family DNS, I'm fairly uncertain about that. At a certain age they are going to show interest in the opposite (or same, i'm not judging) sex. I can block it easily and I wouldn't want him to go straight for the nasty stuff but I wonder how to, um, ease him into exploring things in a responsible way. That was something I didn't really get from my parents, my dad never said anything and the one time my mom did I was 17 and basically horrified.
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DD is almost 4, and our plan is when she starts driving. I like the idea of getting a non-smart phone earlier if she need to be home alone or stay after school or whatever.
We're very strict about screen time. She never uses our phones, we have no tablets, and she might watch 30 minutes a week of TV (Daniel Tiger or Reading Rainbow). Obviously, at some point, she'll start using a computer, but I don't see why we'd ever let her use a phone / tablet for games / social media. Not to say I'm 100% opposed to video games. We do have a Wii, and I wouldn't object to her playing video games in reasonable doses. The problem with games on phones is their addictive and ever-present nature. A flicker of boredom and the phone is in hand before the thought has even formed. Constant stimulation isn't good for us.
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At age 9, they got a phone that could call either of us. This was tied with walking to school. Without a phone I don't think my wife would have been ready for them to walk.
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We don't have cable (thankfully!), but we still watch shows. For this the kids have a WiFi only Kindle Fire. The parental controls are decent, with built in screen time limits (unlike 3rd party paid for screen time limit apps on vanilla Android). We limit screen time to 30 min for each child, with it turned off overnight. Have also setup a separate WiFi network for the kids that enforces use of OpenDNS Family Shield, along with filtering at the router level. The DNS and filtering is very strict at this point, will open it up gradually for certain things as they get older. This may seem like overkill, but requires little to no work once configured, and an ounce of prevention...
Android has the Family options since android 8 and the kid's phone has to be Android 7 or higher. You can limit screentime, whitelist websites, apps need to be allowed by the parent before install and with Youtube kids you can control somewhat what he can see.
Paid apps are also available to the kids' devices but only if paid up front, not in-app purchases. In app-purchases need to be verified by the parent though, no free ride :) The only downside so far is that Google Family works up until 13 years of age, they can then disconnect the device regardless of the parents' views.
As a sysadmin, my son was using a defective older phone for some simple games but which is totally locked down in what he can and cannot do. Basically to prevent him from damaging my expensive phone, but also to gain a measure of control because if I say times up he goes into denial but when the phone says it he's fairly meek about it (so far :P). I still use the app Kidsplace to limit the amount of time he can spend in specific games, but the total screentime is now managed by Android.
If he wants one to call his friends with, he'll have to wait until he's 10 (at least). And even then he still gets a controlled phone where I can see who he calls, how long etc. He has expressed zero interest in that though.
Regarding the family DNS, I'm fairly uncertain about that. At a certain age they are going to show interest in the opposite (or same, i'm not judging) sex. I can block it easily and I wouldn't want him to go straight for the nasty stuff but I wonder how to, um, ease him into exploring things in a responsible way. That was something I didn't really get from my parents, my dad never said anything and the one time my mom did I was 17 and basically horrified.
Thanks for the info. This is frustratingly classic Google design - stuff parents want to control littered in various places. Parental Controls for some things, Family Link for others, unintuitive configuration. At the end of the day, however, I'm going to lock down pretty much everything except games and curated video (Amazon Prime, not YouTube), and will continue to filter at the router since I'm not totally confident in what the restrictions on the device are doing. In other words, for us it's intentionally a limited-use media device, not a smart phone. When they eventually get a phone it will be for doing phone-y things, not watching videos or social media or browsing the web.
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My oldest got his first phone shortly after he turned 11, when he was halfway through 5th grade. I had a newborn and a toddler at the time. I worked part-time from home and walked to pick him up from school, but there were several times when I would be nursing the baby or have an urgent diaper change or (insert other baby/toddler related delay here) right at pick up time. One day I was late, missed him at a certain spot, and couldn't find him (there were 2 different ways to go at a certain juncture and we picked opposite ones). About a month prior there had been an incident nearby with child safety ending in a murder, (not a dangerous area but shit happens anywhere), so I was on edge. He got a cellphone the next day so that I could text him if I was running late and know which way he was going. Of course, within a month he had broken his phone (it was not a smart phone but it was a decent phone for texting) and ended up with a go phone for the next two years. I think he got his first hand me down smartphone at 13?
For my younger kids, honestly, I'm not sure what we'll do. We don't have a landline so we've been talking about adding a line for one of our old phones and keeping it at the house. My husband has an awesome veteran deal through T-Mobile where it's $90/mo for 3 smart phones including unlimited talk, text, and data including 140+ international countries. It's only $10/mo to add additional lines to the plan. I suspect both younger kids will get phones at the same time, even though my youngest may be younger than I'd choose if I didn't have the other kid 23 months older. Neither of my younger kids have friends with phones yet except the occasional Verizon-based watch phone thing.
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A couple things to keep in mind when deciding this:
1) there are no payphones anymore (at least near me). Meaning once you kid is old enough to walk or bike places, they have no way to call anyone if they have a problem without a phone.
2) If you don't have a home phone, you will run into the same problem at home. You may have a child mature enough to stay home alone, but without a phone, how would they call someone in an emergency.
We have a magic jack for home service b/c we wanted to hold off on getting our younger son a phone. It was like $60 the first year, but then after that it was $99 for 5 years. We have decided to keep it since sometimes the kids are flakey about charging their phones.
Our kids have older smart phones, data turned off. They are 13 and 15. They got them in 4/5th grade time period when they started staying home alone and going around town by themselves - biking to a friend's house, walking home from school, etc.
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I got my sin a phone when he went to middle school. Since he walks there and back on his own and we head to work, it’s a good way for us to keep in touch. We added a Cricket one to an older model refurbished iPhone.
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Both of my sons were given an iPhone when they were 13. I chose he iPhone so I can stalk them geographically. :)
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Both of my sons were given an iPhone when they were 13. I chose he iPhone so I can stalk them geographically. :)
Yes! This is one of the big reasons I went with the iPhone too!
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Google family does tracking too though, every time I open maps I see me sons phone location (always at home though :P).
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I need to read through all of this thread, which I haven't done yet...
but I really feel like we need a dedicated "smartphones and teenagers" thread because by God this issue is the single biggest issue parents of teens face these days.
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I am so nervous about all of this as I strongly believe that smart phone's for kids is not a good thing but also recognize the need for them. We have a 6 and 10 year old. Currently we have one family ipad that lives in the tv room. And a Ooma telo voip phone as a home phone. In the near future I am planning to get a flip phone or use my old iPhone 5 (disabling internet if possible) to use as the "house" cell phone to give a kid when they are out and about. To be returned to it's charger when they get home. I think this will work for awhile and then when they get to be 8th grade we can give them their own phone. We'll see how it goes.
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Our kiddos are age 11 and 9 and they currently do not have have cell-phones. We have a land- line at the house and the plan is for neither to have a smartphone before high school. When/if they do get a cell-phone in high school there will be limitations on its use, i.e. not phone is bedroom past a certain time at night, etc.
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@SEAK, Just giving you a heads up, there will be TREMENDOUS pressure for your kids to get phones in middle school. Mostly because 90% of their classmates will have them, and they will feel ostracized if they aren't able to join the group texts, snapchats, play the same games, everyone else is playing.
Imagine being "out of the loop" on what's going on with 90% of your classmates, at a time (middle school) when kids push away from their parents and gain most of their identity (and happiness) through their "tribe" (other kids).
I'm not saying it's impossible or anything, and I wish you the best of luck, but as the parent of a middle schooler, I see how phones = life to these kids, especially girls.
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We got my son a featurephone- a tough as nails Nokia, at 9, that was 2006, mainly for emergencies/safety - also, a way to keep in touch when he was at the other parent. First smartphone- a used Nexus S, early in high school, about the same time he assembled his gaming rig. This year, graduating college with an ecology bachelors- he actually prefers reading on paper over screens. He spends alot of time - school projects, backpacking, mtn biking, in places with no cell signal, never sure about handheld ham radio signal; so, I got him an inreach se satellite 2-way text device. Some bad falls from his bike in the past, he keeps it stashed in his pack. His current phone is a Galaxy S8.
I think, him having a phone early, helps keep our communication stronger- especially with separate parent's households. I still have voicemails from years ago when he called me just say me misses me. Just being connected, helps assure him he can reach out anytime.
lol, he had actually logged in into an old phone of mine one time with his google account and forgot to log out. So, for years in high school and early college, unbeknownst to him, I had access to his online life. He must have wondered how I could bring up relevant discussion topics at the right time, lol. I made sure I didn't factory reset that phone while it lasted. I'm sure we'll laugh about it years from now.
When a kid can't be strapped to a stroller anymore, is the time to get them a two way communication device. A kid friendly wrist device like the Gizmo Watch would be next to strap on a kid, when a Tile tracker just can't cut it anymore, lol. When my son was 2, out shopping with his mom, Old Navy actually dropped those steel gates when mom yelled- "where's my kid?". Turned out he had crawled underneath a coat rack just an aisle away.
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in some ways the smartphone question is easy.... I am in my early 40s and still have never owned a smartphone. therefore my 10 year sees everyday that one can survive without a smartphone. in other ways I am at a disadvantage, as I do not use any of the apps myself and have some ignorance for what's out there.
I will pay to get the kid will get a feature phone likely in junior high (7grade here). officially the elementary school bans them but about 1/2 of the 4th grade class has them according to the kid.
if the kid chooses to save their allowance to get a phone sooner, we'll deal with it. sort of like a driver's license, I am thinking of creating a cell phone license that the kid has to pass before the cell phone can be used. License violations may cause the cell phone to revoked. Everything that everyone is posting in this thread and the other thread is very interesting to me and is helping me to "dial in" (yes, pun) what will be included on the license test. I figure I have at least one more year before I start feeling pressure from the kid.
also, I am currently pondering this article to get both myself and the kid prepared for this.
https://www.vickihoefle.com/tweens-technology-sexting/
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I mean, my 6 yo could probably watch TV for 30 minutes and not get into trouble. But I wouldn't leave him home alone.
Our school: has age limits for when you can walk home alone
Wow. Bummer on all counts.
I guess every kid and every school is a little different. But man, I'd be pretty pissed if our school tried to tell me what my kid can and can't do like that.
-W
Funny when you realize that half the kids take the school bus. Nobody's necessarily checking up on them on the other end, ya know?
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I say this as someone who worked in tech for a long time: Either passively allow technology to consume your life, our realize that you have agency and proactively determine how technology fits into your life. Neither you nor your kids are required to be slaves to phones, or to the expectations of others around you.
If phones are taking over at home don't just plug them in at a charging station. Turn them off, or put them in a cell phone jail (a Faraday cage to block wireless signals).
My aspiration isn't for my kids to fit in perfectly with their peers. The entire premise of MMM is counter cultural, and that's a good thing. FIRE is weird. Biking instead of driving is weird. I want my kids to experience being different rather than reflexively fitting in.
If you must be accessible for work after hours then you should be getting paid to be on call, with clear parameters for what qualifies as an emergency and additional compensation per call. But let's face it, 99% of the time off-hour calls/texts are not bona fide emergencies. Responding to these conditions your boss and/or peers to think of you as "always on." Stop responding after hours. If you must, then tell people you'll work on it the next work morning. If your company or boss cannot deal with you having your own life and your own time then start looking for another job. See also the article on Workism in The Atlantic (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/religion-workism-making-americans-miserable/583441/).
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We haven’t done phones yet but likely will before our oldest starts 6th grade. There would be no after school care so I want a way to make sure he gets home and has a way to call for help if needed. I really want something with GPS tracking too so I can “watch” him walk from the bus to the house. He may be involved in after school clubs by that time so I would need a way to know when he needs a ride or if they are running late. We’ve got 2 more years before we make this decision so I am loosely keeping an eye on what exists now.
He’s quite obsessed with video games now so we would need to have a way to limit time within apps not related to schoolwork. I also don’t want him full internet access but since he can already manage access to YouTube through our Roku boxes, I worry that this is a loosing battle.
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In 4th and 2nd grade our kids started riding bikes alone to school (no adults but a group of kids). It is over a mile but we didn't feel they needed phones.
Plenty of elementary kids have them- but usually not with phone service, it seems.
We do still have a landline at home. At ages 11 and 9 our kids are home alone sometimes.
I do think we will give our 11 year old one soon. We've already begun discussing with him that everything except actual phone calls, texting, and listening to music will be disabled at first,and privelegs will be added slowly. And it will be one of our old phones so that if it is lost, no harm.
This is partly driven by wanting him to be able to communicate with us, and growing Independence as he wanders further from home on his own.
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Has anyone tried out Relay from Republic Wireless? I really like the idea of my kids having a communication device when they're a bit older and spending time away from us, and I like that the relay doesn't have a screen so I don't need to worry about everything that has already been mentioned about kids and smartphones. Seems cool, but haven't heard of many/any first-hand experiences.
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I like the Relay concept, great idea.
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As a former social worker I would check out the laws for your state before leaving kids home alone. Some states don’t have a law which is worse so if something bad happens they decide the kids wasn’t mature enough to be left. You can find yourself in the clutches of CPS faster than you can blink a eye and once your kids are in foster care it’s a nightmare to get them out.
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My daughter is 6 and got an Iphone 6S, only parent's and grandparent's numbers but lots of games. However when she gets naughty we take it away for a week. Too early to have a phone but the mistake was done already...
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My daughter is 6 and got an Iphone 6S, only parent's and grandparent's numbers but lots of games. However when she gets naughty we take it away for a week. Too early to have a phone but the mistake was done already...
It might have been too early, but it is not too late to be the parent and take it away until you feel it is a more appropriate time for her to have one.
Why have you not done this if you now feel it was "too early?"
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I say as soon as they are actually wondering around in public on their own. For me, that was pre-age 12. For my kids, that has not been the case. I got them phones early because I thought that they would put them to good use exploring the world and I was wrong. They used them to access social media and video games in an arguably unhealthy fashin and I would have honestly taken them away but their mom (who I no longer live with) would not hear of it.
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I am surprised that my thoughts on this topic seem completely out of left field compared to what I have read on here so far. My kids are still quite young, so this issue isn't staring me in the face yet, but for general guidance, I tend to look to myself and my own upbringing.
Like a disproportionate number of FIRE(/d) people, I am/was, a software developer. As a little kid I got a GameBoy, which I played with much enthusiasm and graduated to a SNES....PC games.... Eventually I decided to try and make websites about my favourite PC games, then people offered to pay me money to make websites for them when I was 11/12 (approx?). Formal education, a larger portfolio under my belt, and I can command my price for web dev work or business facing software in general.
This whole anecdote is to say that if parents try really hard to stifle any tech leanings their child might have as a default position because "technology is scary", then how do our kids end up following these paths that we walked? I find it safe to avoid blanket media or study declarations of the sky falling to be bogus on their face. Like anything in this life, the answer to the question is, "It depends!". If you give your kid an iPad to play Bimmi Boo and they never put it down, refuse to do anything else, well then act accordingly. But if they still like doing other things, while still having that technology leaning, I am not sure how keeping them from it purposefully isn't equivalent to holding them back. If I was kept off the PC because my Game Boy playing was deemed to be setting my life on a course for failure, I wouldn't be able to see FIRE as anything but a pipe dream.
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This thread is about cell phones not tech in general. Staring at a phone all day texting or on social media is not the same as being tech savvy. I see this all the time, kids who know everything about certain video games or media platforms, but are essentially tech illiterate.
So no, I don't think I'm hurting my kids' chances of a career in tech by limiting access to smartphones. If my kids want to build a webpage or program something, great! I would be thrilled to help and teach them how.
I did not have or use a personal computer until college, yet this was not an obstacle to earning a CS degree and having a very lucrative career in tech. IMO, the way smartphones are typically used is a waste of time...time better spent learning math and science.
One does not need to be scared of tech to know that the internet is the wild west and that kids don't, by default, have the maturity or knowledge to safely navigate such an environment.
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@UndergroundDaytimeDad,
I'm in the same position as you. I learned to use DOS to play games and was active on the BBS scene when I was ~12 because I thought that it was awesome. I used to dial into the local library because if you knew what you were doing you could get to gopher! I started scrounging old hardware and building my own systems, I learned a ton. By the time I was 14 I was setting up my own routers and servers (OpenBSD, Linux, FreeBSD). By the time I was 16 I was paid QA at a local company. By the time I was 17 I was writing C code on a POSIX platform for money. By the time I was 24 I had by BS in CS. I turned it into a six figure career.
So, I was happy to buy tech for my kids. However, they haven't shown any interest in any sort of creation. They are however happy to consume content. In my experience, phones and tablets are really only for media consumption. If you hold out hope that one day they will create something, buy them a laptop (I did). So, my current plan is to keep my kids in mid-grade laptops (often cast off XPS13s that I have used for a few years). That way, they can create something if they really want to. But they don't. My 17 year old has a school provided chromebook for actual school work and uses her laptop to watch Netflix. My 14 year old has a laptop that he mostly uses to play games, but honestly sometimes he also reads interesting history or watches cool documentaries, which is cool - but not the same as learning to tinker or code.
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My kids got their phones when they graduated high school and went to college. 4 and 3 years ago. Prior to that if they needed to go out somewhere they packed my cheapo flip phone.
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PDXTabs - my daughters, particularly the older one who is 10 got really into building things with Scratch. They made lots of Christmas cards and things like that. Then I had a house guest who was talking about the Raspberry Pi and DD10 begged for one for her birthday. TBH - we haven't really started exploring the Raspberry Pi as she's so busy with school right now but hopefully we can do a bit over Easter and the summer break. We also got her a book called something like "python for kids" and she seems to be quite into it. She likes the creative aspect of Scratch and Python and loves the fact that Python is a "real grown up computer language".
So IMO it's a matter of giving the kids the tools to actually create things rather than just sitting zombie-like attached to their screens. Neither of my kids has a cell phone yet (at 7 and 10) but DD10 is going to middle school next year so it's possible that we'll get her one. Most likely, it will just be a flip phone so that she can call us if she has issues going to and coming home from school by herself. But even if she has a flip phone, we want to make sure that she learns to be computer literate. As others have pointed out, owning a smart phone or ipad is not the same as learning to code or learning how the things work.
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PDXTabs - my daughters, particularly the older one who is 10 got really into building things with Scratch. They made lots of Christmas cards and things like that. Then I had a house guest who was talking about the Raspberry Pi and DD10 begged for one for her birthday. TBH - we haven't really started exploring the Raspberry Pi as she's so busy with school right now but hopefully we can do a bit over Easter and the summer break. We also got her a book called something like "python for kids" and she seems to be quite into it. She likes the creative aspect of Scratch and Python and loves the fact that Python is a "real grown up computer language".
That's awesome, I have a beaglebone, solder station, and a logic analyzer available if any of my kids ever get interested. But honestly, I think pure software is more fun because you don't have to mess with any hardware (but sometimes kids love hardware, because it's like magic). We have that Python book and it is very good, my oldest worked through some of it before deciding that it wasn't for her, which is fine.
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Very soon after I first posted, my 11.5 year old now has a phone.
We are currently using Google family link. I can see where he is and lock down access. I don't like it though, because I can't come troll it by individual app. I can lock apps completely, and I can set a time limit for the phone (currently set to an hour a day). But I can't allow texting any time, even past the hour.
Also, DS has already figured out he can use his Fitbit charge to test all night long 😬
So if anyone has other software recommendations that allow more tailored control, I am looking.
So far I'm happy with the decision. Texting with him is very helpful to me. He uses his hour for things like scratch and texting. No social media.
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What's interesting about this issue is the reasons parents have for getting their kids a cell phone in the first place. Most I've talked to say it's for 1 or 2 reasons. 1, for the safety of knowing they can communicate with their kids, know their whereabouts etc., and 2, their kid will fit in because most other parents have bought their kid a phone already.
Both strike me as completely irrational. Where we live, rural Michigan, is statistically one of the safest places to live (crime rate etc.) in the state, it's also among the safest places to live in the country, and even (i would argue) on of the safest times and places to live in most of human history. I really don't buy the notion that a phone is going to make me less worried about my 10 year old's safety.
It also seems strange that many parents buy their kid a phone, often times against their better judgement, because most other parents have already done so. There is some weird echo chamber quality of most parents doing what most parents are doing, because they want to kid to fit in with other kids.
I know, I'm not saying all parents are like this. But I've known many that are.
Childhood is about living in a world of fascination, innocence and wonder. I'm for extending that period of time for my kids as long as I can. I don't see how a smart phone helps me with this.
Not too long ago I was out to dinner with my 3 kids, no devices, having a good time.
At the next table was another family with 3 kids that spent the entire time each staring into a device. The parents were seated on the opposite side of the table and looked hopelessly bored. I noticed virtually no interaction among them the whole time.
I kept thinking, why go out to dinner like that, what's the point?
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My oldest got his first phone before 6th grade. My younger son is 9 and we just got him an iPhone (both iPhones were freebies).
I realize that is young...but without a landline, and my kids being home alone quite a bit (younger son alone a lot without older son).....not to mention, when my kids are out and about with friends, it is VERY convenient to be able to call them rather than search the neighborhood....so we decided it was time.
Like most things, it was easier to pull the trigger for my younger son after a few years of managing it with my older son. I was VERY concerned about it with older son, but it hasn't been a huge deal. We have all of the parental controls on them (we've eased up on them after a couple years of older son proving responsibility)....no social media for younger son. You can set time limits and manage them pretty easily. YES, they are a distraction and YES, they can be abused and get kids into trouble...but they are a part of life and learning to manage technology is something we have to teach our kids anyway.
I respect all decisions regarding this....I think a lot of it depends on the kids themselves, lifestyles, parenting styles, etc. No right answer here.
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An iPhone is fancy for a child, even an old one. If I can find one of those giant brick cell phones, I would totally want to give that to my son, mostly because of how funny it would be. Realistically, I'll probably get a basic flip phone or some other non-smart phone.
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An iPhone is fancy for a child, even an old one. If I can find one of those giant brick cell phones, I would totally want to give that to my son, mostly because of how funny it would be. Realistically, I'll probably get a basic flip phone or some other non-smart phone.
We could not find cheap flip phones. It made more sense financially to give old (FREE) used iPhones rather than pay for flip phones. Crazy.
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An iPhone is fancy for a child, even an old one. If I can find one of those giant brick cell phones, I would totally want to give that to my son, mostly because of how funny it would be. Realistically, I'll probably get a basic flip phone or some other non-smart phone.
We could not find cheap flip phones. It made more sense financially to give old (FREE) used iPhones rather than pay for flip phones. Crazy.
It's not about the financial aspect. I wouldn't want my child to have access to all of the apps that smart phones get. Maybe you can disable that feature. I don't know.
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An iPhone is fancy for a child, even an old one. If I can find one of those giant brick cell phones, I would totally want to give that to my son, mostly because of how funny it would be. Realistically, I'll probably get a basic flip phone or some other non-smart phone.
We could not find cheap flip phones. It made more sense financially to give old (FREE) used iPhones rather than pay for flip phones. Crazy.
It's not about the financial aspect. I wouldn't want my child to have access to all of the apps that smart phones get. Maybe you can disable that feature. I don't know.
You can disable, delete and prevent installation of apps, as well as turn off, screen or block internet capabilities very easily. It's also much easier to locate a smartphone via software (and obstensibly the location of the kid holding it), and know where the phone has been. Neither is foolproof, but both are now fairly robust.
Whether that's useful to you as a parent is deeply personal. As I said upthread we have no plans on giving our kid a phone until the teenage years, smartphone or flip-phone or whatever they'll have in several years when she gets to that point.
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An iPhone is fancy for a child, even an old one. If I can find one of those giant brick cell phones, I would totally want to give that to my son, mostly because of how funny it would be. Realistically, I'll probably get a basic flip phone or some other non-smart phone.
We could not find cheap flip phones. It made more sense financially to give old (FREE) used iPhones rather than pay for flip phones. Crazy.
It's not about the financial aspect. I wouldn't want my child to have access to all of the apps that smart phones get. Maybe you can disable that feature. I don't know.
My kids cannot put any app on their phones without my permission. It’s locked down. If they try to get an app, it sends me a notification. I approve it or not. You can also disable all safari browsing.
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What's interesting about this issue is the reasons parents have for getting their kids a cell phone in the first place. Most I've talked to say it's for 1 or 2 reasons. 1, for the safety of knowing they can communicate with their kids, know their whereabouts etc., and 2, their kid will fit in because most other parents have bought their kid a phone already.
Both strike me as completely irrational. Where we live, rural Michigan, is statistically one of the safest places to live (crime rate etc.) in the state, it's also among the safest places to live in the country, and even (i would argue) on of the safest times and places to live in most of human history. I really don't buy the notion that a phone is going to make me less worried about my 10 year old's safety.
It also seems strange that many parents buy their kid a phone, often times against their better judgement, because most other parents have already done so. There is some weird echo chamber quality of most parents doing what most parents are doing, because they want to kid to fit in with other kids.
I know, I'm not saying all parents are like this. But I've known many that are.
Childhood is about living in a world of fascination, innocence and wonder. I'm for extending that period of time for my kids as long as I can. I don't see how a smart phone helps me with this.
Not too long ago I was out to dinner with my 3 kids, no devices, having a good time.
At the next table was another family with 3 kids that spent the entire time each staring into a device. The parents were seated on the opposite side of the table and looked hopelessly bored. I noticed virtually no interaction among them the whole time.
I kept thinking, why go out to dinner like that, what's the point?
Both of those reasons are rational to me. Yes the odds of something bad happening are low, but the convenience factor is there. It's just the way things are done.
Buying a phone so your kid can fit in is a very rational decision. Are you really going to get your kids a flip phone in five years when everyone else has their parent's old iPhone? When I was a kid I was a little bit late getting a Nintendo and one of the first to get a Super Nintendo. Who here was stuck with Atari when everyone else had Nintendo? As a kid were you closer to the first in line or last in line for getting the latest cool toys? Are you living in an area where these purchases are in line with the peer group or is everyone on subsidized phone programs?
Considering many of you are buying a house smaller than you can afford, I'm willing to bet you're able to afford keeping your kid in line with their peer group. Even if it doesn't align with your values I would recommend being open to softening up in this regard. Saying no to your kid in the name of frugality is less noble than saying no to yourself.
The only harsh rule I might enforce is cracked screens are grounds for forfeiting your phone until you can afford the repair fee. I'll buy the nice toys but you have to take care of them.
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Buying a phone so your kid can fit in is a very rational decision. Are you really going to get your kids a flip phone in five years when everyone else has their parent's old iPhone? When I was a kid I was a little bit late getting a Nintendo and one of the first to get a Super Nintendo. Who here was stuck with Atari when everyone else had Nintendo? As a kid were you closer to the first in line or last in line for getting the latest cool toys? Are you living in an area where these purchases are in line with the peer group or is everyone on subsidized phone programs?
Considering many of you are buying a house smaller than you can afford, I'm willing to bet you're able to afford keeping your kid in line with their peer group. Even if it doesn't align with your values I would recommend being open to softening up in this regard. Saying no to your kid in the name of frugality is less noble than saying no to yourself.
The only harsh rule I might enforce is cracked screens are grounds for forfeiting your phone until you can afford the repair fee. I'll buy the nice toys but you have to take care of them.
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/3e/3ee380b3f0065c2b5fc62db7ac667f9c06265aae4a78136652c61c76eace92ce.jpg)
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I'm assuming sarcasm? We need emoticons here so we can ascertain tone in these kinds of posts.
I'm planning to get my kid a flip phone next year when she's 11 and starts going to middle school. She might go have lunch on her own with friends after school and things like that so it would be good to have a way to keep in contact. No way am I getting her a smart phone until much later (probably when high school starts at 13-14) for about a billion reasons.
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I don't think it's sarcasm.
I fully understand wanting your kid to fit in a little bit. Kids are vicious - they're like baby rattlesnakes that haven't learned to control their venom yet. I certainly hope to instill enough self-confidence in my child that he doesn't care what others think, but I also wouldn't want my child to go through some of the same things I saw others who were a little different go through.
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Unfortunately, my daughter is already quite different. She has a foreign mother (me), eats weird food as a result and has weird habits like going to bed at a reasonable hour. Even worse, she's about a foot taller than anyone else in her class and painfully shy. I hope I'm not condemning her to a life of pain in middle school. But I know other kids who don't have smart phones at 11 who are perfectly fine.
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Has any else signed the https://www.waituntil8th.org/ (https://www.waituntil8th.org/) pledge to delay getting your child a smartphone until they are in 8th grade?
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My daughter is about to get her first phone for her 13th birthday. Pretty sure she's the last one in her class. 😁. I'll admit that it will be handy for after school activities. It will also have tracking security software
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This is what I have noticed in my daughter's middle school peer group (suburban DC area, Grades 6-8 so ages 12-14)
- The kids **all** have cell phones. Some 6th graders might not but they almost all do by 7th grade. They are smart phones, not flip phones.
- The kids do not use landlines. I don't know if they don't have a landline phone or just don't use it. But if a child doesn't have her own cell phone number, she is effectively unreachable. (That's the kids' words, not mine (I drive a lot of carpool). So-and-so can't work on the group project because she doesn't have a phone... we can't reach her!) . If I push them, they will realize that there are other ways to make sure she can get information about where and when to meet -- like calling her parents! -- but that is definitely not their first or second or third thought.
- Kids call each other to work on homework, arrange weekend hangout plans and get togethers, or just chat about whatever. This all happens on their phones or group texts. Kids with a flip phone or no phone are simply not a part of this.
- They game online together and talk a lot that way, too. My daughter uses her desktop but I think most kids game on a laptop.
- Even the teachers seem to expect that kids will have a smart phone for use looking up things in class.
It is definitely socially ostracizing in 2019, in this area where we live, for kids not to have a smart phone. It is not just a matter of kids wanting to play games on their phones or listen to music. If everyone else is communicating via smartphone, it is very hard to be on the outside of this.
For this reason, the movement in schools for all parents to get together and change the social norm (No phone till 8th grade) is the most useful way to proceed, IMO, if parents want their kids to delay use of a smartphone until at least 8th grade.
I think there's also been a semi-generational shift in attitudes towards smartphones for kids due to lower cost. My older child is 17 and when he was in middle school, fewer kids had smartphones. I think just in the past 5-8 years, the cost of a smart phone (especially refurbished ones) has come down enough so they have become affordable as a big Christmas or birthday present.
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My daughter got a cell phone on her 10th birthday. The kids started to walk home from school and there was one incident when they couldn't open the door. They had an ipad with them, so they called me. I had to leave work and open the door for them. Since then, I changed the locks and DD got a cell phone for her BD. Just in case they have to call when they are on the way and don't have Internet to call from an ipad. DD is very social, likes to go to her friends in the neighborhood and then they all walk to the nearby shopping plaza. Before she got her phone she was calling from her friends's phones or iwatches (still have no idea how it works). Her brother is now 10, but he won't be getting a phone for a while. No need for now, they usually are together and he isn't as social, so he doesn't have many friends to meet with. He is getting a desk-top, he needs it more than a cell phone.
So, for me it was a no brainer, my daughter's lifestyle kind of dictated when she got her cell phone.
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For those of you with middle schoolers with smart phones, what kind of software do you have on there to stop them looking at inappropriate sites, posting inappropriate stuff online etc?
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Thanks @UndergroundDaytimeDad, I feel so much better about my parenting style.
I didn't think twice about buying a smart phone for my DD, it was cheaper on my plan to get another smart phone. Plus, the technology thing, why would I keep my kids behind on technology. Seems silly to me.
For those of you with middle schoolers with smart phones, what kind of software do you have on there to stop them looking at inappropriate sites, posting inappropriate stuff online etc?
First, define inappropriate. Second, there is no way I or any app is savvy enough to stop kids these days from searching, reading, watching something "inappropriate" (whatever that means). The only difference between the parents who really go strictly by the "inappropriate" book and me, is that I know from my daughter first hand that she read something that isn't "appropriate" for her age (according to other parents), and other parents live in a delusion that their kids would never... Those kids just hide the books and movies from their parents and my daughter gets them from the other kids and reads openly at home. She tells me what the "inappropriate" part is about and I wonder why is it considered "inappropriate."
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For those of you with middle schoolers with smart phones, what kind of software do you have on there to stop them looking at inappropriate sites, posting inappropriate stuff online etc?
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We're going to try out Mobicip to see how it works
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I loved to get the cell phone question. I just laughed uproariously and said oh ____ NO! The kids don’t even ask anymore, I’m sad to say.
We talk about it every now and then these days in the context of phones being a financial drain and bad for their minds.
How old are your kids?
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Ah, another reason for getting a smart phone, my DD (like me and my mom) is directionally challenged. She got lost a few times in our neighborhood when she was delivering invitations to her friends. She called me and I found her, I had explained to her how to use Google maps and I think we are good now.
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First, define inappropriate. Second, there is no way I or any app is savvy enough to stop kids these days from searching, reading, watching something "inappropriate" (whatever that means). The only difference between the parents who really go strictly by the "inappropriate" book and me, is that I know from my daughter first hand that she read something that isn't "appropriate" for her age (according to other parents), and other parents live in a delusion that their kids would never... Those kids just hide the books and movies from their parents and my daughter gets them from the other kids and reads openly at home. She tells me what the "inappropriate" part is about and I wonder why is it considered "inappropriate."
Specifically, porn. There is already a 7 year old boy in another class at my kids' school who describes the porn he watches on his older brother's phone (older brother is around 11) to the other kids in his class. Luckily, my daughter is in a different class from this kid.
Another thing which concerns me is that apparently in middle school boys start asking girls to send them nude photos. A 12 year old girl at the middle school attached to my kids' elementary school sent a nude photo to a boy in her class and he (of course!) sent it to all his friends who them send it to basically the whole school. This poor girl was absolutely mortified. Obviously, an app probably wouldn't stop this but I'd like to hear other parents' advice on monitoring their kids' phones at this age and having conversations about appropriate internet usage.
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First, define inappropriate. Second, there is no way I or any app is savvy enough to stop kids these days from searching, reading, watching something "inappropriate" (whatever that means). The only difference between the parents who really go strictly by the "inappropriate" book and me, is that I know from my daughter first hand that she read something that isn't "appropriate" for her age (according to other parents), and other parents live in a delusion that their kids would never... Those kids just hide the books and movies from their parents and my daughter gets them from the other kids and reads openly at home. She tells me what the "inappropriate" part is about and I wonder why is it considered "inappropriate."
Specifically, porn. There is already a 7 year old boy in another class at my kids' school who describes the porn he watches on his older brother's phone (older brother is around 11) to the other kids in his class. Luckily, my daughter is in a different class from this kid.
Another thing which concerns me is that apparently in middle school boys start asking girls to send them nude photos. A 12 year old girl at the middle school attached to my kids' elementary school sent a nude photo to a boy in her class and he (of course!) sent it to all his friends who them send it to basically the whole school. This poor girl was absolutely mortified. Obviously, an app probably wouldn't stop this but I'd like to hear other parents' advice on monitoring their kids' phones at this age and having conversations about appropriate internet usage.
Courts have found that spreading nude pictures of classmates is distribution of child pornography in some states. The cases generally aren't treated as seriously as if an adult had spread the pictures, but I certainly hope more came of that than just a slap on the wrist and an email to parents.
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First, define inappropriate. Second, there is no way I or any app is savvy enough to stop kids these days from searching, reading, watching something "inappropriate" (whatever that means). The only difference between the parents who really go strictly by the "inappropriate" book and me, is that I know from my daughter first hand that she read something that isn't "appropriate" for her age (according to other parents), and other parents live in a delusion that their kids would never... Those kids just hide the books and movies from their parents and my daughter gets them from the other kids and reads openly at home. She tells me what the "inappropriate" part is about and I wonder why is it considered "inappropriate."
Specifically, porn. There is already a 7 year old boy in another class at my kids' school who describes the porn he watches on his older brother's phone (older brother is around 11) to the other kids in his class. Luckily, my daughter is in a different class from this kid.
Another thing which concerns me is that apparently in middle school boys start asking girls to send them nude photos. A 12 year old girl at the middle school attached to my kids' elementary school sent a nude photo to a boy in her class and he (of course!) sent it to all his friends who them send it to basically the whole school. This poor girl was absolutely mortified. Obviously, an app probably wouldn't stop this but I'd like to hear other parents' advice on monitoring their kids' phones at this age and having conversations about appropriate internet usage.
'Sexting' is a big issue amongst even the older elementary school kids in our district (ages 10-12), and a perennial issue at school board meetings. It's also illegal in our county between minors.
Unfettered communication with anyone else on the planet can be another issue, as it attracts predators and skilled manipulators.
And of course pornography - even though there's a lively debate about what threshold must be met for something to be pornographic and whether all depictions of sexual activity should be verboten. I'm going to go out here on a limb and suggest that most parents would object to their pre-teens watching videos of hardcore group sex, though some might not want that kind of censorship.
Then there's the issue of data-collection and monetizing on minors. Everywhere you go and everything you send or receive can be recorded and analyzed by marketers. Some will shrug at that as an inevitability of modern life, while others (myself included) are deeply concerned how such data collection could be used year down the road. Currently the US has very little in the way of privacy protections, even for minors.
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Call me naïve, but all of this is exactly why I want to wait to give my daughter access to a smart phone.
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First, define inappropriate. Second, there is no way I or any app is savvy enough to stop kids these days from searching, reading, watching something "inappropriate" (whatever that means). The only difference between the parents who really go strictly by the "inappropriate" book and me, is that I know from my daughter first hand that she read something that isn't "appropriate" for her age (according to other parents), and other parents live in a delusion that their kids would never... Those kids just hide the books and movies from their parents and my daughter gets them from the other kids and reads openly at home. She tells me what the "inappropriate" part is about and I wonder why is it considered "inappropriate."
Specifically, porn. There is already a 7 year old boy in another class at my kids' school who describes the porn he watches on his older brother's phone (older brother is around 11) to the other kids in his class. Luckily, my daughter is in a different class from this kid.
Another thing which concerns me is that apparently in middle school boys start asking girls to send them nude photos. A 12 year old girl at the middle school attached to my kids' elementary school sent a nude photo to a boy in her class and he (of course!) sent it to all his friends who them send it to basically the whole school. This poor girl was absolutely mortified. Obviously, an app probably wouldn't stop this but I'd like to hear other parents' advice on monitoring their kids' phones at this age and having conversations about appropriate internet usage.
My advice is just to talk and explain that sexting is illegal and stuff like that. Bottom line, talking goes long ways and doesn't destroy trust. The "inappropriate" activity my DD and her classmates were doing was reading and watching "Love Simon," which is PG13, and they are still 12.
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First, define inappropriate. Second, there is no way I or any app is savvy enough to stop kids these days from searching, reading, watching something "inappropriate" (whatever that means). The only difference between the parents who really go strictly by the "inappropriate" book and me, is that I know from my daughter first hand that she read something that isn't "appropriate" for her age (according to other parents), and other parents live in a delusion that their kids would never... Those kids just hide the books and movies from their parents and my daughter gets them from the other kids and reads openly at home. She tells me what the "inappropriate" part is about and I wonder why is it considered "inappropriate."
Specifically, porn. There is already a 7 year old boy in another class at my kids' school who describes the porn he watches on his older brother's phone (older brother is around 11) to the other kids in his class. Luckily, my daughter is in a different class from this kid.
Another thing which concerns me is that apparently in middle school boys start asking girls to send them nude photos. A 12 year old girl at the middle school attached to my kids' elementary school sent a nude photo to a boy in her class and he (of course!) sent it to all his friends who them send it to basically the whole school. This poor girl was absolutely mortified. Obviously, an app probably wouldn't stop this but I'd like to hear other parents' advice on monitoring their kids' phones at this age and having conversations about appropriate internet usage.
My advice is just to talk and explain that sexting is illegal and stuff like that. Bottom line, talking goes long ways and doesn't destroy trust. The "inappropriate" activity my DD and her classmates were doing was reading and watching "Love Simon," which is PG13, and they are still 12.
Smartphones aren't just uni-directional though. It's not just what they intentionally view and send, but what gets sent to them (with and without their consent).
Anyone can send a pre-teen genital picts if their phone is unlocked, and apps masquerading as fun, free 'games' can track their locations, activate their camera or microphone (often without their knowledge) and record what they do.
Studies (and legal precedent) routinely show how pre-teens and young teenagers routinely misjudge how dangerous an action may be, particularly in the digital space.
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My oldest is 13 and he would love a smart phone but we aren't planning to get him one any time soon. He will certainly have a phone when he starts driving. Until then, we are not in a huge rush. Even if there are practices or events where he needs to communicate with us, he will be with friends and coaches that have phones.
When he does get a phone, we will definitely limit what is available on it. Top concern would be pornography followed by games that are not healthy to play for excessive amounts of time.
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First, define inappropriate. Second, there is no way I or any app is savvy enough to stop kids these days from searching, reading, watching something "inappropriate" (whatever that means). The only difference between the parents who really go strictly by the "inappropriate" book and me, is that I know from my daughter first hand that she read something that isn't "appropriate" for her age (according to other parents), and other parents live in a delusion that their kids would never... Those kids just hide the books and movies from their parents and my daughter gets them from the other kids and reads openly at home. She tells me what the "inappropriate" part is about and I wonder why is it considered "inappropriate."
Specifically, porn. There is already a 7 year old boy in another class at my kids' school who describes the porn he watches on his older brother's phone (older brother is around 11) to the other kids in his class. Luckily, my daughter is in a different class from this kid.
Another thing which concerns me is that apparently in middle school boys start asking girls to send them nude photos. A 12 year old girl at the middle school attached to my kids' elementary school sent a nude photo to a boy in her class and he (of course!) sent it to all his friends who them send it to basically the whole school. This poor girl was absolutely mortified. Obviously, an app probably wouldn't stop this but I'd like to hear other parents' advice on monitoring their kids' phones at this age and having conversations about appropriate internet usage.
My advice is just to talk and explain that sexting is illegal and stuff like that. Bottom line, talking goes long ways and doesn't destroy trust. The "inappropriate" activity my DD and her classmates were doing was reading and watching "Love Simon," which is PG13, and they are still 12.
Smartphones aren't just uni-directional though. It's not just what they intentionally view and send, but what gets sent to them (with and without their consent).
Anyone can send a pre-teen genital picts if their phone is unlocked, and apps masquerading as fun, free 'games' can track their locations, activate their camera or microphone (often without their knowledge) and record what they do.
Studies (and legal precedent) routinely show how pre-teens and young teenagers routinely misjudge how dangerous an action may be, particularly in the digital space.
Anyone can send me genital pics, I wonder why I don't get them. What stops them? I thought smart phones routinely send a request to confirm if I allow my camera or microphone or location to be turned on. If that's possible to do without me knowing, then someone is recording me as I type this. And that is the exact reason why I would definitely upgrade my kids to the newest smart phones, where all those loop holes are figured out.
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Anyone can send me genital pics, I wonder why I don't get them. What stops them? I thought smart phones routinely send a request to confirm if I allow my camera or microphone or location to be turned on. If that's possible to do without me knowing, then someone is recording me as I type this. And that is the exact reason why I would definitely upgrade my kids to the newest smart phones, where all those loop holes are figured out.
You probably don't get them because your circle of aquintences have matured beyond that stage, and because you aren't on tinder. I was recently chaperoning a group of middle-schoolers and when someone asked who had received nude or semi-nude photos from someone with a smartphone said yes.
Yes, most OS on smart phones will ask you to confirm when an app is accessing your location or your camera - but there are two problems with that. First, a number of apps have been found to circumvent this precaution and second, you are relying on the end-used (in this case a child) to make this decision.
For the former there's a long line of widespread privacy violations, including recently the Facebook App accessing both the camera and the microphone without the user's knowledge or permission. Your cell phone carrier always tracks your location (it has to - otherwise you wouldn't have reliable cell service), and it's only recently become public knowledge that they have been monetizing your movement patterns.
For the latter the in-app requests are typically worded to evoke a 'yes', like "MMM-app would like to access your core settings in order to provide you with seamless gameplay and bonus levels! Click yes." Often apps 'require' such permissions to have full functionality. It's not surprising that even adults often click 'yes' without fully realizing what they are agreeing to - convenience wins out over security.
Another thought - the hardware matters far less than the software for privacy, and while newer OS tends to be more secure, each iteration also opens up more vulnerabilities. It's basically a cat-and-mouse game.
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Anyone can send me genital pics, I wonder why I don't get them. What stops them? I thought smart phones routinely send a request to confirm if I allow my camera or microphone or location to be turned on. If that's possible to do without me knowing, then someone is recording me as I type this. And that is the exact reason why I would definitely upgrade my kids to the newest smart phones, where all those loop holes are figured out.
Probably because you don't install the many garbage "free" apps that kids do...because their friends do, and it's cool and whatever. These apps aren't free and are paid for first and foremost by mining and selling personal data, and second by showing ads. It's shocking how much data these companies are able to collect. They know way more about you than you realize, like very personal stuff: Age, location, commute, where you shop and hang out, interests, and on and on. As they gather more data the build a more complete profile of who you are, even how much you likely make. You may think you're somewhat anonymous/unknown sitting behind a veneer of privacy, and that's exactly what they want you to think.
So they know you are old, relatively speaking. Nefarious entities that would do something like sending genital pics don't want to waste their time with you - you are not the target audience. They target gullible kids, preteens, and teens.
If you read nothing else, please read this: https://www.state.gov/j/tip/rls/fs/2017/272010.htm
Lots of other scams out there as well:
https://www.1stunitedcu.org/blog/20180615/social-media-scams-targeting-east-bay-youth
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local/5-on-your-side/clever-scams-target-kids-online/209920475
https://www.brookings.edu/research/sextortion-cybersecurity-teenagers-and-remote-sexual-assault/
This is not the age of TV and radio where everyone gets the same view of the world. Smart devices are...smart...and the view presented to the end user is a product of who they are and how they use their device. Don't assume your kid's experience online is the same as your own.
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Even if there are practices or events where he needs to communicate with us, he will be with friends and coaches that have phones.
That’s just what I had to put a stop to. My daughter has a phone and I trust her with it, but I didn’t want her handing her phone over to a classmate. The other tweens parents didn’t think he was mature enough to use one, so I didn’t want him to have access via her phone.
They would have a situation at school where kids expected they were staying till 5 pm for an after school class b but it turned out that the club was canceled and they needed to be picked up at 3:30. Kids with cell phones could could text their parents and let them know the need for alternate arrangements. Kids without cell phones would borrow their friends’ phones to call or text their parents.
I didn’t want some kid texting some random parent on my daughte’s phone. The kids without phones need to get a pass from the teacher and walk downstairs to the front office and use the front office phone. If parents don’t think Is there a child can be trusted with their own cell phone, they certainly shouldn’t be trusted with my daughter’s!
As a teacher, there’s no way I’d hand my cell phone over to a student to make a call. If practice is cancelled due to thunderstorms, kids have to call from the school office or wait for parents to hear the weather report.
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Even if there are practices or events where he needs to communicate with us, he will be with friends and coaches that have phones.
That’s just what I had to put a stop to. My daughter has a phone and I trust her with it, but I didn’t want her handing her phone over to a classmate. The other tweens parents didn’t think he was mature enough to use one, so I didn’t want him to have access via her phone.
They would have a situation at school where kids expected they were staying till 5 pm for an after school class b but it turned out that the club was canceled and they needed to be picked up at 3:30. Kids with cell phones could could text their parents and let them know the need for alternate arrangements. Kids without cell phones would borrow their friends’ phones to call or text their parents.
I didn’t want some kid texting some random parent on my daughte’s phone. The kids without phones need to get a pass from the teacher and walk downstairs to the front office and use the front office phone. If parents don’t think Is there a child can be trusted with their own cell phone, they certainly shouldn’t be trusted with my daughter’s!
As a teacher, there’s no way I’d hand my cell phone over to a student to make a call. If practice is cancelled due to thunderstorms, kids have to call from the school office or wait for parents to hear the weather report.
If/when we get to this point our plan is to get a bare-bones burner phone for voice and text, preferably w/o camera. No internet, no apps. Not only is this less expensive, but also no worries about screen time (games, social media) or wandering into the dark corners of the interwebs.
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So they know you are old, relatively speaking. Nefarious entities that would do something like sending genital pics don't want to waste their time with you - you are not the target audience. They target gullible kids, preteens, and teens.
This is not the age of TV and radio where everyone gets the same view of the world. Smart devices are...smart...and the view presented to the end user is a product of who they are and how they use their device. Don't assume your kid's experience online is the same as your own.
I should be their target audience because I am not underage, have money and can pay for things. If their target audience is below the legal age they risk getting in jail even before they reach a real child's phone (just an FYI).
BTW, my kids ask permission to install new apps.
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One of the main problems is the peer pressure among kids. Most adults give their kids phones way too early so you're pressured to give your own kid one for fear they feel like an outcast among their friends.
It's hard to convince them repeatedly that having a phone isn't important because it's like you're telling them that have common interests with your friends isn't important.
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I should be their target audience because I am not underage, have money and can pay for things. If their target audience is below the legal age they risk getting in jail even before they reach a real child's phone (just an FYI).
You may think you are, or should be, the target audience. And sometimes you are. However the reality is that kids are often the target. On average they are more guilabe and usually have money to spend compliments of the bank of mom and dad. And oftentimes they are targeted because, well, the person at the other end has a thing for kids. They know it's illegal and risky, but they do it regardless. Laws and the threat of punishment don't necessarily deter bad behavior.
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Our older two kids got a cell phone in 7th grade and we plan to do the same with our youngest. In 7th grade they joined school sports and we felt they needed a phone to be in contact with games/meets and rides home. They had Kindles, iPods and other devices to play games on before that but phones are when they are necessary. Which was 7th grade for us.
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Maybe 16, or when they get their first job.
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Good luck to all of you giving your kids cell phones at ANY age. I will say this, I'm one of those "poor unfortunate parents" that had their kid do all of the bad things you can imagine with her cell phone. It has ruined her and I regret ever giving the dang thing to her. If you think you can trust your kid with a phone, EVEN a phone with no internet, PLEASE think again. Trust is one thing, but monitoring is quite another and if you aren't at least checking thoroughly into your kid's phone, you are making a huge mistake. Don't be me. Be proactive. Check. Who are they texting? What do the texts say? Is the contact REALLY the person they've labelled it as? Apps....you may not see the app on their phone right now, but don't doubt that they aren't deleting that app before they get home from school everyday so you don't see it. For God's sake don't let the kid have the phone in their room overnight! It's so easy to download apps and talk to strangers, and said strangers will ask these kids to do God knows what via video chats. The kids are using these phones to bully each other via social media, text message, etc, and we know nothing about it because we can't see any of that. It's very easy to miss. Yes, I am on my soap box. My kid was the one you could trust, the sweet one, the "oh she would never do THAT kid." And so is yours. Be careful.
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13 in our house to get your first cheap, refurbed smartphone. We make a huge deal of it. They get the following as gifts on their 13th bday: state ID card, phone, a new wallet, a bus pass, and we open a checking account for them (except for younger, he had to wait until 14 due to new credit union rules). They become "young adults" in our home at 13, and we build up to this big time. It comes with privileges and a ton more responsibilities, but they are now junior adults in the household and they are treated as thus. If they keep their phone in pristine condition and have no usage issues, they can get a newer, more capable one at 15 in lieu of a birthday gift. We have few internet restrictions or rules. Just lots and lots of family discussions and education. I have one adult son that's about to head off to his junior year of college, and one teenager still at home. Never had any issues with bullying or other stuff. Some gaming issues with older son, but we taught him methods to control his own behavior rather than implementing restrictions that would have controlled it for him.
But then, I've been informed we do the parenting thing all wrong, so ::shrug:: We don't punish teens for misbehavior, for example. If they misuse their phone or the internet, they have already punished themselves. Since they knew there were no parent-induced repercussions, they were always honest and came to us when they made a mistake and got in over their heads, and then we could help them work through it. BUT there's no one right answer. Know yourself, know your kid, and do what's best for your family. Don't look to other families for a solution. They have a totally different dynamic. The dynamic that worked for our boys was likely set into motion at birth simply due to our innate parenting style and their personality types, it may not work for someone else.
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Good luck to all of you giving your kids cell phones at ANY age. I will say this, I'm one of those "poor unfortunate parents" that had their kid do all of the bad things you can imagine with her cell phone. It has ruined her and I regret ever giving the dang thing to her.
@IslandFiGirl, may I ask at what age your kid ran into what sounds like some horrible trouble using a phone?
Is he or she grown now? One thing I wonder is what happens to kids when they turn 18 and move out. If they had trouble using the internet and smartphones (or even just phones) carefully under the age of 18, do they improve at all once they hit adulthood? Or do you as a parent just not know about it once they move out and are working to earn their own phone and plans?
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Good luck to all of you giving your kids cell phones at ANY age. I will say this, I'm one of those "poor unfortunate parents" that had their kid do all of the bad things you can imagine with her cell phone. It has ruined her and I regret ever giving the dang thing to her.
@IslandFiGirl, may I ask at what age your kid ran into what sounds like some horrible trouble using a phone?
Is he or she grown now? One thing I wonder is what happens to kids when they turn 18 and move out. If they had trouble using the internet and smartphones (or even just phones) carefully under the age of 18, do they improve at all once they hit adulthood? Or do you as a parent just not know about it once they move out and are working to earn their own phone and plans?
She was 12. It was a variety of things, but most some sort of app that allowed people to video chat with each other, I can't remember the name, but there were adults on there victimizing kids. Also bullying from other kids through instagram, snapchat, etc. The kids will say the most awful things to each other and as the parent I didn't realize why my kid seemed so negative, moody, depressed, and felt worthless. I think she became addicted to the phone and the attention she could receive through it. The phone was taken away from her for over a year, a new one given at the start of high school and she was back to her old tricks within a few months. She all of the sudden had the ability to communicate with all her friends, to plan to skip class, meet up with boys, you name it. I'm not saying that every kid will do this, but mine did and now she has NO phone and my phone is in my room and I don't give a rat's a** about it anymore. It's the devil in my opinion...we've stopped communicating with each other in real life. It's a great tool, used properly, it's a map, a camera, e-mail, but it's also a tool that seems to be hurting a lot of people as well. I just don't want anyone going through what I am going through now. It's painful to see all of the awful crap your child can get into. She is almost 15 now and she will surely be the "outcast" at school cuz she doesn't have a smart phone. Wah, cry me a river. We'll be working on house projects, volunteering at the animal shelter this summer and finding her things to do that don't involve sleepless nights glued to a phone. And to be honest, my guess is that when she turns 18 she will probably get a phone and do the same crap, but I will do my best these next three years to show her another way.
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Good for you IslandFIgirl and I'm so sorry your family went through this. I agree that phones are very dangerous and powerful tool. Our current plan is to get a stupid phone next year for our 11 year old with only calling and texting. Is she's the outcast then so be it.
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13 in our house to get your first cheap, refurbed smartphone. We make a huge deal of it. They get the following as gifts on their 13th bday: state ID card, phone, a new wallet, a bus pass, and we open a checking account for them (except for younger, he had to wait until 14 due to new credit union rules). They become "young adults" in our home at 13, and we build up to this big time. It comes with privileges and a ton more responsibilities, but they are now junior adults in the household and they are treated as thus. If they keep their phone in pristine condition and have no usage issues, they can get a newer, more capable one at 15 in lieu of a birthday gift. We have few internet restrictions or rules. Just lots and lots of family discussions and education. I have one adult son that's about to head off to his junior year of college, and one teenager still at home. Never had any issues with bullying or other stuff.Some gaming issues with older son, but we taught him methods to control his own behavior rather than implementing restrictions that would have controlled it for him.
But then, I've been informed we do the parenting thing all wrong, so ::shrug:: We don't punish teens for misbehavior, for example. If they misuse their phone or the internet, they have already punished themselves. Since they knew there were no parent-induced repercussions, they were always honest and came to us when they made a mistake and got in over their heads, and then we could help them work through it. BUT there's no one right answer. Know yourself, know your kid, and do what's best for your family. Don't look to other families for a solution. They have a totally different dynamic. The dynamic that worked for our boys was likely set into motion at birth simply due to our innate parenting style and their personality types, it may not work for someone else.
I'm loving your ideas of state ID, wallet, and checking account, totally genius and I am stealing them, well, borrowing with permission. My oldest is now 12, so I am so glad I've read it now and can do this for her 13th BD.
I would like to read about the methods you taught your son to control his gaming issues, please (if you don't mind sharing). Mine is 10 now and he might mature a bit to control his gaming issues, but for now the most effective way is for me to control them, which is, well, not the most effective way.
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@ilsy
Sure! I will say it does require finding the right method for the child's personality. My son is a naturally prone to being organized and he is extremely extroverted, so we played to these traits.
Basically, it was a mixture of creating goals/a daily plan and then having an accountability partner. We actually encouraged him to look outside the immediate household for the accountability partner because we felt that the parent-child dynamic could lead back to us setting the rules instead of him developing strategies on his own. He asked an older boy in his scout troop to start, and they actually had a competition going to see who could meet their accountability goals the most for a few months. (side bar: He's almost 19 now and still uses accountability partners, but he does it through discord productivity groups now. )
In the beginning, he would present us with a plan each week, but eventually he handled it all on his own as he became better skilled. This plan listed how many hours a day MAX he wanted to dedicate to gaming, as well as all the other responsibilities he needed to attend to in real life. He could decide whether to game first, then attend the other stuff, vice versa, or a combination of the two. We'd talk through the plan and help him adjust it so it was realistic, but we didn't set any limits on gaming or computer time at all -- this was his responsibility because it was his life it would ultimately affect. At first he would schedule an 8 hour Saturday gaming session, but then he would regret the things he missed out on, so he learned quickly (we may have done something "fun," like going out to ice cream without him because it was during his gaming time, to help nudge him in the right direction a few times ;). We would also give friendly reminders at first if it seemed he was spending too much time gaming -- like "hey kiddo, don't forget your plan!" No nagging or insisting he follow the plan. If he messed up, he faced the consequences. Homework not done? oh well! Missed something you wanted to do because you weren't watching the clock/overslept because you gamed too late? Tough, you knew the plan. We would help him brainstorm ways to avoid the same issue twice, such as setting alarms or installing a program that scheduled a daily computer restart to jar him out of the gamer haze.
It meant letting him take a lot of falls that could have been avoided with more active parental control. But, I think it was better for him to take these falls as a tween when they didn't really have lifelong repercussions than having to face the consequences as a college student or adult when oversleeping for the wrong test or meeting could actually ruin his life.
Feel free to send a PM if you have any questions.
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17 for oldest, 12 for second child. Not sure about the next ones. Maybe flip phones at 12