Author Topic: Shifting the traditional SAH paradigm  (Read 5927 times)

Lagom

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Shifting the traditional SAH paradigm
« on: April 09, 2016, 12:51:47 AM »
I've been reading a number of relevant threads lately and pondering the idea of the SAH parent in a community of FIRE enthusiasts. I've also been thinking about the traditional idea that if you can't do it all the way until college, the "best" time to have a stay at home parent is in the years before they start formal schooling. The thing is, your kid will (at best) barely remember that time, so I'm not sure I buy that that is the optimal approach unless your income is low enough that daycare costs would take up most or all of it. That said, I totally respect those who want that early bonding time, but I do think the question is worth asking.

Even if we agree that there are benefits to the SAH until elementary idea, isn't it logical to suppose that having a stay at home parent during a child's 5+ years might actually be more beneficial for the child and family? It is at that age and beyond that they begin to truly grapple with the more complex challenges of life beyond "am I loved and do I feel safe?" after all. Again, this is assuming both spouses make enough that there is a meaningful surplus in one salary after daycare expenses. In that situation, perhaps the best thing is to take a short parental leave, and then continue to save on two salaries for another 5 or so years before one parent starts staying at home full time.

If I could do it over again (as a 32 year old with a step son and expecting another child with DW in October), I would try my best to be FIRE already, but since that ship has sailed, we are seriously considering a scenario that flips the traditional paradigm on its head with both of us working until the kids are in elementary school, and only then would one of us stay home. Thoughts?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2016, 03:52:52 PM by Lagom »

jac941

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Re: Shifting the traditional SAH paradigm
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2016, 01:24:30 AM »
I think different families make different decisions about the "best" time to stay home with kids. I know that I definitely read and posted on a recent thread where a few people argued that it was "better" to stay home when kids are older. It really depends on what you feel is best for your family.

My kids are little (both under 4) so I don't have the personal experience as a parent to say what's best. But, I can give you my perspective as a kid. My mom was a SAHM until I was 6 or 7 years old. Then she worked full time the rest of my childhood. If you ask me I would say my mom always worked full time because that's what I remember. Even though she was actually home for 1/3 of my childhood.

Also, my mom isn't the type to give parenting advice. She rarely comments on my parenting and doesn't have much to say about what she thinks is best. That said, after I had my first kid she told me that the thing she regrets most about raising her kids was not spending more time with us as teenagers. In retrospect she said she realized that those teenage years were probably when we needed her home most and she was working. That comment really stuck with me. So it's something I'm keeping in mind as my kids get older.

tobitonic

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Re: Shifting the traditional SAH paradigm
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2016, 08:15:53 AM »
There isn't a best way to do...well, anything in life. Everyone's pretty much just justifying the kinds of lives they'd like to live. There are benefits to staying at home during the early years. There are benefits to doing it during the later years. There are benefits to doing it all the way. There are disadvantages to all three approaches. Again, it all comes down to what works best for your family.

Personally, we go back and forth between my wife staying at home full time to home school or her working part time while the kids are private schooled. She's spent the majority of our 2 year old's life at home and all of our 8 mo old's life at home. She's trying to figure out long term plans, and the public school isn't an option; it basically comes down to what would make her happier, since both her homeschooling and private schooling would provide a good environment for the kids.

sjc0816

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Re: Shifting the traditional SAH paradigm
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2016, 08:36:06 AM »
I don't think there is a "best" time to SAH. My oldest had medical issues and 3x per week physical therapy appointments as an infant. There just was no way to have two working parents and dealing with that. Some things you just can't predict. So I've been at home since my first was born.

I have no plans to go back to work either....and my kids are all in school. For us, it's a lifestyle thing. We just prefer having someone at home so our evenings/weekends/school breaks are relaxed and my DH doesn't have to worry about childcare, sick kids, school breaks, cooking/cleaning. We have much more quality family time this way. Everything is so much less hectic with someone at home taking care of all of the behind-the-scenes stuff. And we don't thrive in a hectic, rat-race type of environment.

In regards to FI, I spend a good part of my time maximizing every dollar we spend. In the years that I have been at home, DH has doubled his income and our expenses have been sliced dramatically. I DIY so many things, cook, rarely eat out....things I would not have time to do working full time. So I think financially, it has done more for our financial independence than pretty much anything we've done.

little_brown_dog

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Re: Shifting the traditional SAH paradigm
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2016, 08:36:34 AM »
We are lucky -  unless something goes terribly wrong, we are in a position to have me SAH permanently while still making great strides towards FI. In fact, daycare here is so expensive, if a partner is making anything less than 45k per year, it really isn't worth it to work in terms of short term income generation.
That being said, some would argue that there is no "right" time to have a parent dedicated to child rearing given the unique needs of children based on their age. For example, attachment theory (the real deal, not the pseudoscience surrounding attachment parenting) really stresses the importance of a primary care taker that is available the majority of the time to an infant. According to this theory, having that primary caretaker readily available on a daily basis supposedly is the cornerstone of secure attachment and healthy emotional development in infants. This theory generally has strong support and is backed up by scientific and anecdotal evidence. Many think that the reason some adoptive children struggle so much, even if they were adopted at a very young age, may have to do with residual effects of instability they experienced as infants. Others point to studies showing mothers who struggle to bond or have "distant" parenting approaches to their children in infancy tend to have children with more behavioral problems later on. Proponents of having a SAHP during the infancy years often point to this idea, stating that leaving a baby in daycare or with a nanny 8-10 hours per day makes it hard to fulfill the "readily available" aspect required of this theory.
Others think that because infants have relatively basic cognitive needs, that it is better for the parent to be home when the child is older and is navigating a much more complex social and behavioral sphere. This makes sense as well. If you have to pick, and can't have a SAHP all the time, then you have to weigh things like daycare cost with your own personal beliefs about infant and childhood development. Since money wasn't an obstacle for us, we chose attempt to have a SAHM during the infant years while also planning on continuing that lifestyle potentially until the children go to college.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 08:54:44 AM by little_brown_dog »

brant08

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Re: Shifting the traditional SAH paradigm
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2016, 01:29:10 PM »
For us, we sent #1 to daycare (1800/mo!!!) which enabled me to be very aggressive in my career. I got 2 promotions in that time.

When #2 came, I left my job about 6 months before she was born to start a consulting practice that I could do part time.  I make about 70% what I made at my corporate job, but 50% the hours and *very* flexible. I pay for 10 hours/week of daytime child care and do the rest of my work for clients in off hours when my husband is home.


Sending them both  to daycare would have been approx $3100/mo. A nanny for both and preschool for the older one would be about 42k/year.  That's less than I make by a lot, but two working parents (we both worked 60+ hour weeks) wasn't really sustainable for us.

CindyBS

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Re: Shifting the traditional SAH paradigm
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2016, 06:18:01 PM »


I have no plans to go back to work either....and my kids are all in school. For us, it's a lifestyle thing. We just prefer having someone at home so our evenings/weekends/school breaks are relaxed and my DH doesn't have to worry about childcare, sick kids, school breaks, cooking/cleaning. We have much more quality family time this way. Everything is so much less hectic with someone at home taking care of all of the behind-the-scenes stuff. And we don't thrive in a hectic, rat-race type of environment.

In regards to FI, I spend a good part of my time maximizing every dollar we spend. In the years that I have been at home, DH has doubled his income and our expenses have been sliced dramatically. I DIY so many things, cook, rarely eat out....things I would not have time to do working full time. So I think financially, it has done more for our financial independence than pretty much anything we've done.

This +10

People are often stuck in the mindset that SAHP do not generate income.  The time available to do things to reduce spending is so important and really helps $$$ wise.  I have never met a parent who works outside the home who has time to do stuff like canning, bread baking, cooking everything from scratch, etc.

I work part time with school aged kids, but stayed home for 10 years.  I will not work full time, mainly to avoid spending evenings/weekends and weekends doing all the chores and errands.   I also have a special needs kid and he takes A LOT more parenting time than a typical kid.  A relaxed home environment is more important to us than extra money.

CindyBS

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Re: Shifting the traditional SAH paradigm
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2016, 06:23:23 PM »
I have also read/heard (can't remember where), that if you have to choose when to stay at home with your child, that the best time is when they are pre-teens and teens.

It seems counter-intuitive, but the idea was that most of what an infant or toddler needs anyone can do (feeding, diapering, etc.).  However, a teen needs parenting in the form of advice and direction - something that is best done by the parent.  Lack of supervision was also cited as an issue in terms of risky behaviors like drinking, sex, when parents are not around.

I'm not sure I totally buy into this theory, but I do find it interesting.

MrsDinero

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Re: Shifting the traditional SAH paradigm
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2016, 07:17:22 PM »
If one has to make a choice on when to be a SAHP, then I think the better time to be a SAHP is when they are in middle school/high school.  During this time there is so much going on in their heads (and bodies) they really need someone who is available to talk to you....that is when they are in a talkative mood.

ETA: This is our current plan.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2016, 06:32:24 AM by MrsDinero »

muckety_muck

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Re: Shifting the traditional SAH paradigm
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2016, 08:00:37 PM »
We are planning to do just what you are talking about... staying home (FIRE) once our kids are in school. We have six years to go for our FIRE goals, and both will be in the lower elementary grades at that time. I watch my coworkers struggle (and even remember both of my own working parents struggle) to get dinner cooked, on the table, kids fed, homework done, baths, dishes done, bills paid, laundry, quality time/bedtime story, etc on weeknights. We currently struggle with all of that EXCEPT the homework piece. I don't know how people have the time for all of it. Schoolwork will be a priority for us, and it seems as though something would have to give if we were working during their formative (school-age) years. It's a deeply personal decision, as is pretty much any parenting choice, but one that we believe will work best for our family.




Maya

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Re: Shifting the traditional SAH paradigm
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2016, 08:54:57 PM »
I definitely think I'll enjoy being a SAhp more once the kids are in school. I'm just gearing up to stay home next year and its a bit scary giving up my financial independence as I'm not quite at FI, nor are we as a couple. But there are so many ped days and days kids want you to come to the school. I look forward to being able to help out there and keep evenings stress free. This working thing sucks for the running around!

Ceridwen

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Re: Shifting the traditional SAH paradigm
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2016, 06:37:23 AM »
We are considering doing exactly that as a family (me, as the mother and lower income earner, staying home once our youngest is in kindergarten).  For us, there are a number of factors that have lead us to this direction:

- Living in Canada, I was at home for 13 and 14 months respectively on maternity leave for both kids.  They only started daycare at 12 months old. 

- We have high quality, government subsidized daycare in my province (Quebec).  It started off as $7/day but has now shifted to an income-based model, so we pay $20/day per child.  Even with my mid-level salary, daycare eats up less than half of my take-home pay.  Plus the kids absolutely love it there.  Excellent teachers, curriculum and food. 

- I love the idea of being a SAHM when the kids are in school because I feel that's when they will need me more emotionally.  Like the OP and others have said, this is the time they will actually remember, and I want to be as available to them as possible.

- Once school starts, there will also be additional time pressures on the family with extra-curricular activities and daily tasks like homework supervision and making lunches.  Having a SAHP eases this burden.

- I'd love for my kids to be able to take the bus to school (as opposed to being driven-in to attend daycare), and to be a parent volunteer in the school.

- The bottom line (literally and figuratively) though, is that DH is now making a very good salary, so that, combined with MMM values and lifestyle choices, makes this option financially feasible for us.

mm1970

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Re: Shifting the traditional SAH paradigm
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2016, 10:58:50 AM »


I have no plans to go back to work either....and my kids are all in school. For us, it's a lifestyle thing. We just prefer having someone at home so our evenings/weekends/school breaks are relaxed and my DH doesn't have to worry about childcare, sick kids, school breaks, cooking/cleaning. We have much more quality family time this way. Everything is so much less hectic with someone at home taking care of all of the behind-the-scenes stuff. And we don't thrive in a hectic, rat-race type of environment.

In regards to FI, I spend a good part of my time maximizing every dollar we spend. In the years that I have been at home, DH has doubled his income and our expenses have been sliced dramatically. I DIY so many things, cook, rarely eat out....things I would not have time to do working full time. So I think financially, it has done more for our financial independence than pretty much anything we've done.

This +10

People are often stuck in the mindset that SAHP do not generate income.  The time available to do things to reduce spending is so important and really helps $$$ wise.  I have never met a parent who works outside the home who has time to do stuff like canning, bread baking, cooking everything from scratch, etc.

I work part time with school aged kids, but stayed home for 10 years.  I will not work full time, mainly to avoid spending evenings/weekends and weekends doing all the chores and errands.   I also have a special needs kid and he takes A LOT more parenting time than a typical kid.  A relaxed home environment is more important to us than extra money.
I'm not a SAHP so I can't give specific info on it.

However I would like to +2 for those points:
- sick kids, etc.  I mean, this has been a really bad winter for stomach flu, colds, and flu in our house.  We both work full time.  Even with our EXTREMELY flexible workplaces and the ability to work from home, it sucks to juggle sick kids (good luck working at home with a sick 3.5 year old).  Added to that the schedule juggling for mid-week baseball practices and games, and flute lessons.  Oh, and "crap we are out of milk", so one of us has to go on our lunch break.

- The ability to do "money saving" stuff.  I found that we saved a bunch of money when I was on maternity for a few months, even not bringing in money.  Because I did laundry and hung it out to dry, and baked bread, and made yogurt.  My neighbor SAH and now they have chickens, and she cooks from scratch, and she walks everywhere.

mrteacher

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Cassie

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Re: Shifting the traditional SAH paradigm
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2016, 03:54:16 PM »
Once kids are teenagers they are so busy with school activities, sports, friends p.t. jobs, etc that it is not important to have a SAHP.  You will be home and they won't:)) 

bonjourliz

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Re: Shifting the traditional SAH paradigm
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2016, 05:06:00 PM »
Both DH and I work ft, and our kids are young. 6yo (first grade), 4yo (pre K next year) and another due in August.  I don't know that I will ever SAH, but bith DH and I are  definitely building flexibility into our careers.  And we are socking money away for retirement now, while we are both working, to allow us the possibility of scaling back on that down the road. 

We certainly could go down to one income now, and many of our friends with kids the same age have a SAHP.  But that doesn't feel like the right fit for our family, for several reasons... And I like that we are building a  security net for our family.

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smella

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Re: Shifting the traditional SAH paradigm
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2016, 12:06:23 PM »
Both my parents worked from home when I was a child, and I almost always had the full attention of one or the other.  I think in the early years it made a huge difference, and I loved their availability.  The majority of kids I grew up with had 2 parents working in high power careers outside the home, and were always in daycare, activities, or under the supervision of nannies. 

From age 12 onwards I was doing 20-30 hours a week of ballet training so I hardly ever saw my parents (my choice).  My mom's business also picked up a lot during these years, so she happily worked a lot and sacked away the dough.   By that time, I don't think I suffered from not spending much time with my family since all my good habits had been well established (perfect grades, no trouble making, etc) early in childhood. 

I plant to work pt from home with my baby until he's about 5, at which point I'll be on the job market and my wife will be retiring in order to stay home with the kid (and potentially homeschool him).  It's a huge plus of having a generational gap in our relationship: my career prospects will be picking up just as she's retiring.  Of course, I'm still hoping we'll be close enough to FIRE at that point that my career will be for enjoyment and fulfillment more than money.

Pigeon

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Re: Shifting the traditional SAH paradigm
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2016, 01:42:05 PM »
Obviously, each family has different needs. 

The idea of needing a SAHP for teenagers makes me scratch my head (as the mother of teenagers).  They are involved in a whole bunch of extracurricular activities and are never home before 5:00.  And we talk plenty and have great conversations.

Lagom

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Re: Shifting the traditional SAH paradigm
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2016, 02:32:17 PM »
Good stuff. Thanks all for the food for thought!

Obviously, each family has different needs. 

The idea of needing a SAHP for teenagers makes me scratch my head (as the mother of teenagers).  They are involved in a whole bunch of extracurricular activities and are never home before 5:00.  And we talk plenty and have great conversations.

I'm sure veteran parents can articulate this better than I can, but I would suppose the argument would be that the SAHP could take care of almost everything that would infringe on family time during the day, reducing stress for everyone and maximizing the value of evenings, weekends, school breaks (where they can also be present during the day), etc.

Plus I'm sure there must be at least some occasions where having a parent who can easily take care of something in the middle of the day (e.g. buy supplies for one of their extracurricular activities) would help the kids, as would having a parent present for sick days, as mentioned above. And many extracurricular programs start at inconvenient times for working parents, especially those with longer commutes, so that's a potential benefit.

I dunno, though. Right now I'm thinking K-8 is the ideal time to have a SAHP for those families inclined to go that route. Perhaps it's less beneficial for teens, although being around on breaks alone seems like a good argument for it (financial aspects aside).

 
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 02:34:53 PM by Lagom »

 

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