Author Topic: No More Screen Time!!!  (Read 8296 times)

JGS1980

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No More Screen Time!!!
« on: February 03, 2022, 09:07:07 AM »
My wife and I were previously fairly strict about screen time (1 hour per day), but it was easier when we only had 2 TV's and a computer reserved for adults.

As Covid hit in early 2020 and schools went virtual, IPads were distributed to the kids as well as laptops to use at home and later to keep using at school. From my personal experience, the ratio of personal "fun" use of those screens to actual school/education use is probably 100:1, maybe higher. What a waste of resources.

In any case, I've noted that my relationship with my elementary school aged children has now become an endless series of, "Can I get more screen time?, Can I talk to my friends (while playing a video game)?, or He got more time than me!, or Everyone else gets to play Fortnite!"

I'm tired of it. It's exhausting. I don't want my entire relationship with my children to be me having to police their screens. They, unfortunately, do not have the capacity to self regulate this intentionally addictive form of entertainment.

So..... I'm taking away all screens entirely in about 1 month. They are getting ample time to prepare themselves emotionally AND for Covid Omicron to resolve so that we can set up more neighborhood play dates and the weather will improve a bit to encourage more outside time.

Pray for me.

JGS
« Last Edit: February 03, 2022, 12:04:05 PM by JGS1980 »

LiveLean

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2022, 10:39:50 AM »
Screen time starts earlier and earlier. I'm thankful our kids, now 19 and 16, didn't face such pressures until they were in the 10-12 range.

Two things:

1. Make sure they're involved in sports. Our kids are competitive swimmers (one now swims in college). I'm convinced competitive swimmers are the only kids that go at least two consecutive waking hours, six days a week, without touching a screen. Not to say that swimmers can't live on their phones, but at least they're capable of going two hours daily without. Competitive swimmers, much to their parents' chagrin, train 50-51 weeks a year. Other sports can break the screen twitch, too.

2. Are you really still sheltering your kids over Covid? Wow.

charis

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2022, 11:20:38 AM »
2. Are you really still sheltering your kids over Covid? Wow.

No one in my neighborhood is doing indoor play dates yet. Half the kids in the block had covid in the last month or two when cases started skyrocketing.  Not really what I'd call "sheltering"

ChpBstrd

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2022, 11:23:55 AM »
2. Are you really still sheltering your kids over Covid? Wow.

What's unreasonable about that? Are you keeping up with current events?

JGS1980

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2022, 12:09:03 PM »
Screen time starts earlier and earlier. I'm thankful our kids, now 19 and 16, didn't face such pressures until they were in the 10-12 range.

Two things:

1. Make sure they're involved in sports.
2. Are you really still sheltering your kids over Covid? Wow.

1. Sports ->check, they are all involved in sports year round. We don't care what sport they choose, but they must do something.

2. Covid sheltering? -> yes, it's still a thing. >2600 people are dying daily from this "mild" disease.  I find it pretty reasonable to avoid crowds, public indoor places during the current record wave of cases in our community. BUT, I also think this current wave will be coming down to manageable levels fairly soon.

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2022, 12:58:16 PM »
My kids are teens (15 & 16) & we had very strict rules pre-COVID. After online schooling & kids having access to tech during the day (while we were working), things got really dicey & it's still a struggle.

What works for us...we keep them busy. They play sports (their choice), and are busy with practice, games, tournaments. When they aren't doing that, they have chores around the house, friends to see (most of their friends do outdoor meetups right now, due to COVID, but still kick the soccer ball around at the park, go biking together, or whatever), & they both ref as a seasonal part-time job. They also have homework. We try to set limits around what they do between the hours they are doing all of the above, but frankly, ensuring they have all of the above is 90% of the battle.

We also plan family vacations that are very active (we're going skiing for a week in February), because it's pretty hard to use your phone on the slopes. ;-) They mountain bike in the summer, when we go to the beach they surf, etc.

Sibley

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2022, 01:27:00 PM »
Well, I think your plan of removing all screens is going to flop, terribly and predictably. Every teacher I know assigns work to be completed on the ipad, at least some. What are you doing to do, prevent them from doing their homework? Good luck explaining that one to the teacher.

See if you can encourage in-person time with friends (that depends on the other sets of parents though). If really all their friends are playing Fortnite, then yeah, not letting them play is going to hurt them socially. If the only option to talk to their friends involves a device, and given the isolation imposed by lockdowns and social distancing - you could set up some serious mental health problems for your kids.

I don't think you're going to win this. Society as a whole isn't going to win, and we are only beginning to learn the consequences of losing the battle with electronics. You're going to try anyway, but just be careful that you trying doesn't hurt more than it helps.

Tass

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2022, 01:45:40 PM »
I have no kids, just a curious onlooker. Do the various kids being discussed in this thread have their own phones? Smartphones?

StarBright

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2022, 03:39:09 PM »
Hi!!

This has been an absolute struggle for my family but we may be reaching a sort of equilibrium lately so I wanted to share what we have been doing.

My kids are 8 and 10 and pandemic chromebooks for school definitely escalated their screen usage. We also frequently relied on screens to get quiet time so we could get work done through all of 2020 (I had a lot of guilt about it - but am letting it go. We needed our jobs and that is that).

A friend recommended this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Reset-Your-Childs-Brain-Screen-Time/dp/1608682846

We didn't do a full 4 week detox, but we did a 3 week video game detox and limited TV time in November/December.

Another friend (who has wonderfully behaved children) told us about the concept of Swedish Candy Day:
https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20211004-lrdagsgodis-swedens-saturday-only-candy-tradition

This friend does Saturday Candy and allows their children to do unlimited video games on Saturdays (around the family's schedule).

We decided to give Swedish Saturdays a try after Christmas. This will be our 6th Saturday and we think it is working well! We let the kids pick out a candy every week and there no rules about how/when they eat it and they can watch movies or tv shows and play play station or fun computer games as much as they want.

This has 100% cut down on them asking for screens and treats during the week. The second week was a little sketchy and I think my son thought that we would give in, but by the end of that week he accepted it.

We had a snow day yesterday and he did ask for games, but I just said "games are for Saturdays" and he said "Boo! OK" and didn't ask again.

I doubt this will work forever, but it has been a nice month!

Our kids do not have their own cell phones but do have chromebooks for school and we have an obsolete ipad that still miraculously works somehow.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2022, 07:00:09 AM by StarBright »

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2022, 07:56:55 PM »
I have no kids, just a curious onlooker. Do the various kids being discussed in this thread have their own phones? Smartphones?

My kids have their own phones. They have to put them on charge outside of their bedroom before they go to sleep, and we have dedicated "no electronic/phone time" at our house.

chemistk

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2022, 06:39:53 AM »
We've learned to accept that screens will be a huge part of our kids' lives.

Our 1st grader uses his school iPad about half the day, and all day if it's a remote learning day.

We have one TV, one Switch, and one Fire tablet in the house and our kids are allowed varying amounts of time on each depending on the day of the week and how their behavior has been.

Right now, we're in a point in our lives where (for better or worse), we have to focus on our kids as well as tons of stuff going on around us. There are many situations we find ourselves in where having something to occupy the kids' time is incredibly beneficial.

We know that they're going to grow up with tablets & laptops in school, and their future education and probably work is going to have a large amount of screen time. I think we're better equipped to help them develop a healthy relationship with technology than we are to eliminate screens entirely. We'd be naive to expect that we can completely rid them of screentime.

Our screens are all in one general area of the house, and the content and length of time is supervised closely. Our kids won't get their own personal devices until they need it (afterschool activities are going to be the likely trigger).

ChpBstrd

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2022, 08:27:20 AM »
The problem with just accepting screen time as The Inevitable Future is that the science has found a clear association between screen time and reduced intelligence, creativity, and self management skills.

https://healthmatters.nyp.org/what-does-too-much-screen-time-do-to-childrens-brains/amp/
https://hms.harvard.edu/news/screen-time-brain
https://time.com/5514539/screen-time-children-brain/?amp=true

We could be stumbling into a fall of Rome scenario, where where a whole population’s IQ is lowered a few points via screen time instead of lead plumbing.

chemistk

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2022, 08:43:16 AM »
The problem with just accepting screen time as The Inevitable Future is that the science has found a clear association between screen time and reduced intelligence, creativity, and self management skills.

https://healthmatters.nyp.org/what-does-too-much-screen-time-do-to-childrens-brains/amp/
https://hms.harvard.edu/news/screen-time-brain
https://time.com/5514539/screen-time-children-brain/?amp=true

We could be stumbling into a fall of Rome scenario, where where a whole population’s IQ is lowered a few points via screen time instead of lead plumbing.

This is something I think about, but if you've got young kids right now, you're in a damned-if-you-do/damned-if-you-don't situation. You can choose to send them to a private school that limits them to books and paper, but finding those is harder and harder. You can choose to homeschool, but not everyone can. And if you choose to limit their exposure now, you're probably hampering their ability to work intimately with technology in the future, both near and far, especially as more and more and more lines of work incorporate 'screens' or are performed completely remote. Not to mention, you're going to have be diligent as a parent to raise your kids so they don't feel socially isolated. Children can be raised to have a social life outside of screens and social media, but what will that elimination look like 10 years from now?

But then the alternative is the constant battle that most of us (i would bet there's a lot of lurkers in this thread right now) face: trying to strike a balance between necessary screen time, recreational screen time, and no screen time. And also worrying about just how much that will impact their future development.

Worst of all, we as adults live in a world where (for most of us) screens are necessary. Anyone working from home is showing their kids that Mom/Dad have to have their face buried in a computer for 10 hours, so why can't they? Kids learn largely from example - I certainly shouldn't be playing 6 hours of video games in front of my kids, but 6 hours of work on a laptop looks to them like "the way things are", and kids emulate the behaviors they see in their parents to such a scary degree of accuracy.

Even if I choose to work outside the house all day every day, I still have my phone for directions, email, recipes, phone calls, texts, and everything else our society has quickly gravitated toward accepting as "normal". I can choose to not, and to instead use a dumb phone or at least to put it away until my kids are asleep - but I'd argue that does more damage in the long run. We don't know how the world is going to function in 10 years, am I causing harm to my kids if I can't now model an acceptable use of screens rather than pretend they don't exist? I'd like to argue that's a real possibility.

It's unfortunate, because unlike a lot of things, this is one of things that society has thrust upon us as a fundamental way to live one's life. I can choose to remove lead pipes, to live away from polluted areas, to eat organic, or any number of things that are dangerous to kids and still be well integrated into society. I can't necessarily say that about screens/devices/technology.

JGS1980

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2022, 01:00:08 PM »
Really great input and insight here folks, I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

I was aware the long term harmful effects to children's developing brain and that is one my main arguments for restricting time.

Much like MMM, I believe that we can do anything we set our mind to do, so I'm not going to just give in to the the fatalistic "inevitable losing battle" of limiting screens. As parents, we may not be able to control everything that the kids do outside of the home, but we can certainly put forth restrictions inside our home. That's our job, right? To raise them to the best of our ability.

I think @StarBright 's input in regards to a 4 week detox was excellent, and thanks for the reading recommendation. In addition, he Swedish Candy Unlimited Saturday's concept was interesting. Maybe a block of time (4 hours?) where anything goes for one day on the weekend?

Of course, anything I say is moot unless I can get my wife on board with these plans :)

Thanks again everyone,

JGS

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2022, 09:15:02 AM »
2. Are you really still sheltering your kids over Covid? Wow.

What's unreasonable about that? Are you keeping up with current events?

Do your kids go to in person school? If so you might as well throw in the towel.

Ours have been vaccinated for a couple months now, and even before that (all of 2021/fall of 2020) they were in school anyway so we figured there was no point in restricting their social activities.

Best way to restrict screen time. IMO, is to cut off adult screen time too so you're forced to interact with your kids. Throw your TV straight in the trash and put a screen time limit on your other devices for yourself. Monkey see, monkey do.

-W

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2022, 01:00:25 PM »
My children are a bit younger at 3 and 6, so I imagine it will get harder in some ways but so far we've found things that work for our family that others we know say are impossible. We are very anti-screens, but that doesn't meant that they never every do anything that involves a screen--we sometimes do video calls with family/friends, the older one had online school for a while last year and because of Omicron we've had Zoom Sunday school for the past month, we occasionally (like a couple times a year) watch a movie together as a family and we a bit more frequently will will watch a football or soccer game.

We never ever give our kids devices to do what they will with or sit them in front of the TV to watch something by themselves. We don't do it, so they don't ask for it. We don't need to have screen time limits because that's not how our kids engage with technology. Yes they see us online working from home, but they know that we are using technology as a tool not because it's something fun. They know that fun things exist online (silly videos on YouTube, etc.), but again when we very occasionally look at those kinds of things we do it together as a family.

What is interesting is that others we talk to seem to think that this will lead to their kids bothering them all the time, but actually we have found the opposite. Our kids play together and independently extraordinarily well. Yesterday we had a snow day (without any actual snow) and they just played the entire day. The only times that chose to interact with us were when they wanted help getting lunch or snacks.

I know it's not for everyone, but for our family, we believe strongly in the research and our personal experience that suggests that certain ways of engaging with technology are bad for kids' development. Again, we'll see how things change over time, but for now we are raising imaginative, independent kids who love playing with each other and with their peers, so we're going to keep at it.

Chris Pascale

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2022, 10:21:46 PM »
I have no kids, just a curious onlooker. Do the various kids being discussed in this thread have their own phones? Smartphones?

As of recently, all 4 of my kids have their own phones - ages 10-20. I was reluctant for my younger girls to have cell phones, but have been happy with the results. The youngest communicates with me more (via phone), we have a family group chat, and the younger girls are setting up more days to meet with friends, and play video games with them.

We have a time that we power down from devices, and there are some days I tell them to take a break, but I'm so far seeing it as a positive.

justchecking

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2022, 08:13:35 AM »
I think the biggest thing here for me is the effect that screens are having on the brain of our youngest.  I know for a fact that many adults struggle with the amount of dopamine that is released every time they click on or watch something.  I really think that this is setting up the brains of our children to be really into instant gratification, something that against the core of what this blog is about.  I am also concerned with how passive most content/interactions with phones are and what that says about what we are teaching are children to value.  Let's get them active, outside, and engaged with the natural world.  FWIW I have two young children and we do not allow them to interact with screens and they go to a public charter school that does not use screens because of the above concerns plus many more.  I encourage folks to find people who believe the same things they do and try to create a space that you feel comfortable with.  Don't passively accept what is offered!  Our children deserve better.   

ChpBstrd

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2022, 10:01:18 AM »
The problem with just accepting screen time as The Inevitable Future is that the science has found a clear association between screen time and reduced intelligence, creativity, and self management skills.

https://healthmatters.nyp.org/what-does-too-much-screen-time-do-to-childrens-brains/amp/
https://hms.harvard.edu/news/screen-time-brain
https://time.com/5514539/screen-time-children-brain/?amp=true

We could be stumbling into a fall of Rome scenario, where where a whole population’s IQ is lowered a few points via screen time instead of lead plumbing.

This is something I think about, but if you've got young kids right now, you're in a damned-if-you-do/damned-if-you-don't situation. You can choose to send them to a private school that limits them to books and paper, but finding those is harder and harder. You can choose to homeschool, but not everyone can. And if you choose to limit their exposure now, you're probably hampering their ability to work intimately with technology in the future, both near and far, especially as more and more and more lines of work incorporate 'screens' or are performed completely remote. Not to mention, you're going to have be diligent as a parent to raise your kids so they don't feel socially isolated. Children can be raised to have a social life outside of screens and social media, but what will that elimination look like 10 years from now?

But then the alternative is the constant battle that most of us (i would bet there's a lot of lurkers in this thread right now) face: trying to strike a balance between necessary screen time, recreational screen time, and no screen time. And also worrying about just how much that will impact their future development.

Worst of all, we as adults live in a world where (for most of us) screens are necessary. Anyone working from home is showing their kids that Mom/Dad have to have their face buried in a computer for 10 hours, so why can't they? Kids learn largely from example - I certainly shouldn't be playing 6 hours of video games in front of my kids, but 6 hours of work on a laptop looks to them like "the way things are", and kids emulate the behaviors they see in their parents to such a scary degree of accuracy.

Even if I choose to work outside the house all day every day, I still have my phone for directions, email, recipes, phone calls, texts, and everything else our society has quickly gravitated toward accepting as "normal". I can choose to not, and to instead use a dumb phone or at least to put it away until my kids are asleep - but I'd argue that does more damage in the long run. We don't know how the world is going to function in 10 years, am I causing harm to my kids if I can't now model an acceptable use of screens rather than pretend they don't exist? I'd like to argue that's a real possibility.

It's unfortunate, because unlike a lot of things, this is one of things that society has thrust upon us as a fundamental way to live one's life. I can choose to remove lead pipes, to live away from polluted areas, to eat organic, or any number of things that are dangerous to kids and still be well integrated into society. I can't necessarily say that about screens/devices/technology.

Being well integrated into society is at odds with most goals people have for themselves. If you want financial independence, or even financial strength, you have to go against the grain of consumerism, clown cars, clown houses, and various status symbols and live in a way that leads others to downgrade your social status. If you want to be healthy, you have to be that weirdo who doesn’t eat restaurant food or highly processed foods, rejects car dependency, doesn’t smoke, vape, or line up at Starbucks, and gets out and exercises when the weather is not 100% perfect. If you want to be intelligent and have good mental health, you have to get off social media, get your news from sources no one else has the attention span for, read books in a culture where most people haven’t finished a book since high school, and reject high-status / high-stress jobs.

Basically the mainstream culture around us is spiraling toward insolvency, sickness, stupidity, and mental illness and if we’re too worried about what other people think we’ll end up with some degree of everyone else’s dysfunction.

I say this stuff, but my kid and I get hours of screen time a day. It’s extremely hard to break off from the herd and blaze one’s own path, even if the herd is stampeding off a cliff. It would be a lot easier if there was a local FIRE meetup group near me that could reinforce a lifestyle of financial strength, health, and electronic disconnection.

NonprofitER

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2022, 11:33:42 AM »
Many of these ideas have already been discussed, but here's what we do. 1 child age 12.5.

1. Periodic Screen Fasts: We do a 2 week family screen-fast per year. Adults included. All devices are put on the kitchen counter (outside of work-hours for adults). The end of the fast we discuss how it went and review current screen time hours and re-negotiate how we want to schedule going forward. Again, adults included - so we also tackle things like do the adults use screens in bed or have screen-free evenings, etc.

2.  More time outside the home: engagement in hobbies/sports/other afterschool activities to reduce idle screen opportunities. We had to find new options in 2022 since we lost several activity options during the pandemic.

3. Specific screen days/times: Yearly we re-negotiate our child's screen days/times (usually following the annual screen fast). Having a set schedule for passive screen time seems to reduce the constant negotiations about it.

4. Differentiating between passive/idle screen time (where she can video game, Minecraft with friends, etc.) vs. more purposeful/action-oriented screen time (such as using online tutorials to learn guitar). She has different time limits and schedule options for these different tech uses. M/W's and one weekend day she can do passive screen time for a set time, but purposeful screen time is an option on other days/times.

5. Wellbeing rules: No devices allowed at dinner table, or used in the car idly. All devices plugged into parent station at certain time in the evening/not allowed in bedrooms overnight, etc.

This has worked for us so far.

chemistk

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2022, 12:32:33 PM »
The problem with just accepting screen time as The Inevitable Future is that the science has found a clear association between screen time and reduced intelligence, creativity, and self management skills.

https://healthmatters.nyp.org/what-does-too-much-screen-time-do-to-childrens-brains/amp/
https://hms.harvard.edu/news/screen-time-brain
https://time.com/5514539/screen-time-children-brain/?amp=true

We could be stumbling into a fall of Rome scenario, where where a whole population’s IQ is lowered a few points via screen time instead of lead plumbing.

This is something I think about, but if you've got young kids right now, you're in a damned-if-you-do/damned-if-you-don't situation. You can choose to send them to a private school that limits them to books and paper, but finding those is harder and harder. You can choose to homeschool, but not everyone can. And if you choose to limit their exposure now, you're probably hampering their ability to work intimately with technology in the future, both near and far, especially as more and more and more lines of work incorporate 'screens' or are performed completely remote. Not to mention, you're going to have be diligent as a parent to raise your kids so they don't feel socially isolated. Children can be raised to have a social life outside of screens and social media, but what will that elimination look like 10 years from now?

But then the alternative is the constant battle that most of us (i would bet there's a lot of lurkers in this thread right now) face: trying to strike a balance between necessary screen time, recreational screen time, and no screen time. And also worrying about just how much that will impact their future development.

Worst of all, we as adults live in a world where (for most of us) screens are necessary. Anyone working from home is showing their kids that Mom/Dad have to have their face buried in a computer for 10 hours, so why can't they? Kids learn largely from example - I certainly shouldn't be playing 6 hours of video games in front of my kids, but 6 hours of work on a laptop looks to them like "the way things are", and kids emulate the behaviors they see in their parents to such a scary degree of accuracy.

Even if I choose to work outside the house all day every day, I still have my phone for directions, email, recipes, phone calls, texts, and everything else our society has quickly gravitated toward accepting as "normal". I can choose to not, and to instead use a dumb phone or at least to put it away until my kids are asleep - but I'd argue that does more damage in the long run. We don't know how the world is going to function in 10 years, am I causing harm to my kids if I can't now model an acceptable use of screens rather than pretend they don't exist? I'd like to argue that's a real possibility.

It's unfortunate, because unlike a lot of things, this is one of things that society has thrust upon us as a fundamental way to live one's life. I can choose to remove lead pipes, to live away from polluted areas, to eat organic, or any number of things that are dangerous to kids and still be well integrated into society. I can't necessarily say that about screens/devices/technology.

Being well integrated into society is at odds with most goals people have for themselves. If you want financial independence, or even financial strength, you have to go against the grain of consumerism, clown cars, clown houses, and various status symbols and live in a way that leads others to downgrade your social status. If you want to be healthy, you have to be that weirdo who doesn’t eat restaurant food or highly processed foods, rejects car dependency, doesn’t smoke, vape, or line up at Starbucks, and gets out and exercises when the weather is not 100% perfect. If you want to be intelligent and have good mental health, you have to get off social media, get your news from sources no one else has the attention span for, read books in a culture where most people haven’t finished a book since high school, and reject high-status / high-stress jobs.

Basically the mainstream culture around us is spiraling toward insolvency, sickness, stupidity, and mental illness and if we’re too worried about what other people think we’ll end up with some degree of everyone else’s dysfunction.

I say this stuff, but my kid and I get hours of screen time a day. It’s extremely hard to break off from the herd and blaze one’s own path, even if the herd is stampeding off a cliff. It would be a lot easier if there was a local FIRE meetup group near me that could reinforce a lifestyle of financial strength, health, and electronic disconnection.

Completely agree.

I am also not in a position where I want to dictate how my kids MUST live their lives. I can nudge them in the right direction but I'm not going to deprive them from all screens just because it's probably the best for them, in a vacuum.

Being an independent human who depends on a broader society sucks frequently, and the tradeoffs we make are never perfect. If I want to give my kids the opportunity to choose their path, I'm going to have to set them up with the tools to pursue a wide range of life goals. And one of those toolsets is how to navigate life in an electronically interconnected society. I, personally, feel it's better to help guide them through the joys and perils of technology than to cut them off until they're on their own.

We do find that other adults are a good way to keep everyone honest, even if everyone has the same view on acceptable screen use. But the fact of the matter, at least for my wife and I at this point in our lives, is that we just don't have the mental energy to constantly be engaging with our kids. We are far from absent parents, but there are days (illness, exhaustion, depression, anxiety, pregnancy, work, stress, etc.) where having the kids entertained is necessary. I am not ashamed to admit that from time to time, Encanto or Bluey or National Geographic or Bake-off are the objects of my kids' focus.

FLBiker

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2022, 05:59:10 AM »
Very interesting thread!  We've been a combination of fairly restrictive and fairly lucky, so far -- DD is only 6.  She did some online schooling (~6 weeks total) and had a chromebook during that time, but she would only use it for about 2 hours a day (1.5 for "school", .5 for "educational" games).  She'll watch 30 minutes of TV a couple of times a week (typically Daniel Tiger or Mr. Rogers), and sometimes watch more on the weekend (typically live sports) with my wife and I.  Obviously (I think) she doesn't have a phone.  We have some old video game systems (PS2, Wii) that she'll watch me play periodically -- I might play an hour or two a month, and I stick to kid-friendly stuff like Mario (even though I must confess my preferred genre is FPS).

I agree with a lot of the advice that's been given -- first of all, it starts with the parents.  I'm on a computer all day long for work (from home) but after that I spend very little time on my computer or my phone.  I don't do social media, and I almost never text.  DW uses her phone more than me, but (I assume) less than most people, in part because she doesn't spend all day on a computer -- so she'll do email via phone, which I never do.  I also agree that "screen bad" is an over simplification.  When DD is watching a kid's yoga video and doing yoga in the basement, that seems pretty innocuous to me, vs. the concept of "unboxing" videos, which are absolutely verboten in this house (not that my daughter even knows what they are).

We also talk very openly about the insidiousness of advertising and attention grabbing algorithms.  And, in addition to limiting screen time, we were also very anti-licensed characters, so DD doesn't have particularly strong brand allegiances in that vein.  We've softened on that a bit, but she still doesn't have any particularly strong preferences.  She likes "figures" but she doesn't really care what they are.  She's also pretty timid when it comes to media, still (anything with conflict is too scary) so she isn't pushing the envelope at all in terms of watching stuff.  I think the only real movie she's ever seen is Tottoro.  Once of these days I'd like to watch the Never Ending Story with her, but I can wait. :)

And like was mentioned, we spend a lot of time outside.  We're outside pretty much every single day (in Nova Scotia).  And she spends a lot of time doing imaginative play (making worlds and telling stories with figures, blocks, etc.).  She also loves to read.  I feel like these last two would be the things that fell by the wayside if she spent a lot of time engaged with screens.  I've tried to get her to play board games with me, but so far that hasn't really taken off.

I was raised very differently.  I had some rules around TV and video games (I'm old enough to remember getting cable for the first time, and I had a Colecovision when I was 5) but they were pretty generous -- maybe 2 hours per day, and not a lot of rules on the weekend.  I played outside a bunch, but I also absolutely played a lot of video games and watched a lot of TV.  And I found as I got older that the video game habit was pretty hard to break.  The reason we have really old systems (neither of which I bought) is because I don't really trust myself to have the modern ones in the house.  Even a PS3 I think I would have a hard time saying no to -- those games a really good!  For context, I'm in recovery (booze and drugs) and I tend to be pretty leery of other things that seem to at least flirt with addiction.

Finally, I don't worry overly much about the "she needs to learn technology" argument.  For one thing, she does have some screen time (and she'll do things like Khan academy or Scratch).  For another, I'm in IT (as a semi-non-technical BA, but still) and I remember 10 years ago feeling like -- oh man, these digital natives are coming and they're going to run circles around self-taught old dogs like me.  I didn't have the internet until college and I got my first smart phone 5 years ago.  All I've found, though, is that they're much better than I am at social media.  Being a "skilled" consumer of technology is different (in my experience) than being good at using technology professionally or being able to build things with it.

ChpBstrd

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2022, 10:41:26 AM »
Finally, I don't worry overly much about the "she needs to learn technology" argument.  For one thing, she does have some screen time (and she'll do things like Khan academy or Scratch).  For another, I'm in IT (as a semi-non-technical BA, but still) and I remember 10 years ago feeling like -- oh man, these digital natives are coming and they're going to run circles around self-taught old dogs like me.  I didn't have the internet until college and I got my first smart phone 5 years ago.  All I've found, though, is that they're much better than I am at social media.  Being a "skilled" consumer of technology is different (in my experience) than being good at using technology professionally or being able to build things with it.

True. I'm always a bit surprised when people think their kid is going to learn programming, data science, or system architecture from using video games or social media. The UX is so far removed from anything that involves fixing or building IT systems that it is irrelevant. There's zero chance any reasonably schooled kid will grow up in the US today without learning typing, basic website controls, and how to use a GUI. Those things are literally in the curriculum. UI's are also so refined that a kindergartener can figure it out. Nobody has the old computers that required command line to launch Oregon Trail or the insertion of multiple physical disks to build the OS in RAM.

To think consuming digital entertainment will teach IT skills is like thinking watching daytime television was going to teach someone electrical engineering or radio physics.

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2022, 11:11:36 AM »
Finally, I don't worry overly much about the "she needs to learn technology" argument.  For one thing, she does have some screen time (and she'll do things like Khan academy or Scratch).  For another, I'm in IT (as a semi-non-technical BA, but still) and I remember 10 years ago feeling like -- oh man, these digital natives are coming and they're going to run circles around self-taught old dogs like me.  I didn't have the internet until college and I got my first smart phone 5 years ago.  All I've found, though, is that they're much better than I am at social media.  Being a "skilled" consumer of technology is different (in my experience) than being good at using technology professionally or being able to build things with it.

I think this is a fair point to press. My wife and I take our stance on it primarily because we were raised in fairly restrictive households when it came to technology (well, in other areas too). Our parents actively avoided cable TV, computers, the Internet, video games, etc. I grew up watching OTA PBS and VHS movies, which was fine, but my wife grew up watching almost nothing. Neither of us grew up with access to the Internet (for whatever that was worth a couple decades ago), and my family never had a computer in the house until I was about 10.

It caused us both to have an unhealthy relationship with technology and the Internet. Each of us (despite growing up hundreds of miles apart) would often gravitate towards families who were lenient with TV/video games/Internet and heavily indulge in those things when our parents weren't around. Their intent behind deprivation was to show us that we could be just fine without, but all it did was give us an itch that had to be scratched.

For me, developing a healthy relationship with the video games I had access to as I got into HS then college, as well as the Internet was a challenge. My parents, in a lot of ways, aren't good examples of moderation and boundaries. Until we became adults, most of the behaviors that you'd expect to model for kids were either mostly all-on, all-off, or all-hidden. Neither of them struggles with addiction (thank goodness) but neither of them also could or would justify to us why we could or couldn't do an activity other than a "because I say so".

I try to keep these things in mind with my own kids. I'll admit right here: I enjoy that I can lean on kids TV or Super Smash Brothers from time to time. It helps me manage the amount of stress I have in my life. But in my own desire to avoid cutting them off, I can also show them where to find appropriate content and how to utilize the tools we make available to them. They're adept enough with technology that I don't have to do everything for them, and they know that there are boundaries, and we do our darndest to explain why those boundaries exist.

We don't have intentions to direct our kids toward something that's based around computers & computing. That's for them to decide when they get older. We are also choosing not to groom them for anything in particular, other than just understanding their place in the world, being able to function independently from us, and being a good person to other people (subjective as that may be). Part of that is recognizing that our current society and culture interacts with and derives a lot of meaning and value from a digital world.

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2022, 11:08:18 AM »
We had planned to be a no screen time family, at least until kids were older, but that didn't happen.  My oldest had no TV until she was 2 years old at which point I was pregnant with our second child which ended up being a high risk pregnancy, so I started letting my oldest have a bit of TV so that I could rest.  And then the youngest got exposed much earlier and with working from home doing covid we have found no screen time impossible.

Kids are now 3 and 5. We have focused on quality of screen time.  For example the kids do an hour of cosmic yoga on YouTube every morning. It helps them stay fit and healthy.  We do most of learning through play, books, experiments etc. but they do a few online educational apps for numbers and letters etc. that the school provided.

TV shows are only allowed for 40 minutes daily (they each pick one 20 minute show) while I am making dinner.  This is the witching hour and I can't get dinner made without it. I wish it was different but it is what it is.

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2022, 01:57:49 PM »
Kudos to all the parents holding the line.

It does feel like we're having a discussion about whether light cigarettes are better for our kids than regular cigarettes though. Though the answer is "yes," it would be wrong to be satisfied with that answer.

In addition to attempting to enforce limits, I'm trying a central route persuasion approach, talking to my 8 y/o about concepts like addiction, marketing, how these services make money off of people for simply copying data, research correlating grades and screen time, and telling stories about the sorts of analog-world adventures my friends and I had as kids so that she knows she should want more out of life than to just be entertained.

Tass

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2022, 07:23:10 PM »
5. Wellbeing rules: No devices allowed at dinner table, or used in the car idly. All devices plugged into parent station at certain time in the evening/not allowed in bedrooms overnight, etc.

Most of your rules make perfect sense, but why the car ban?

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2022, 08:11:13 AM »
@Tass Twofold:
1. It just seems plain rude when passengers in the car are idly scrolling while the driver chauffuers them around. We make exceptions for long road trips of course, but just driving across town to an afterschool activity or out to dinner? Nope. In part, this is also related to the fact that some of the best parenting conversations happen in the car. Kids - esp tweens/teens - sometimes open up more in the car than when sitting face to face. We don't want to miss those opportunities to connect. And even when we're transporting our daughter and her friends in the backseat, we want them actually talking to each other rather than scrolling. I've learned all kinds of things I wouldn't otherwise know by being the driver in earshot of girls talking in the backseat after being told our family rule is no idle scrolling in the car.... :)

2. Second, because we don't want our tween, who will be driving in ~4 years, to think using phones while driving is safe or ok. Just developing a mental habit of Car = No phone use.

FLBiker

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2022, 09:48:18 AM »
In addition to attempting to enforce limits, I'm trying a central route persuasion approach, talking to my 8 y/o about concepts like addiction, marketing, how these services make money off of people for simply copying data, research correlating grades and screen time, and telling stories about the sorts of analog-world adventures my friends and I had as kids so that she knows she should want more out of life than to just be entertained.

Us too, with the caveat that our daughter is 6.  She gets it, and when you see how manipulative things are (like, for example, Disney) it definitely takes some of the steam out.

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2022, 11:19:46 AM »
I’m posting mostly to follow.

We’ve struggled with screen time since everything got out of control during the full year of remote school. Especially with our older kid - now 9. That kid spends all of his waking hours trying to figure out how to get more screen time. As a parent, the amount of energy I have to expend to hold our limits is exhausting.

Right now our rule is that everything has to be put away, and all chores and school and family expectations fulfilled before getting on the iPad. But even that causes conflict. If our son finishes cleaning, homework, etc in the evening and then doesn’t get his screen time because dinner is ready or we need to head out somewhere as a family, he flips. He will even turn down going fun places so he might get screen time at home instead. It’s super unhealthy, but I’m not sure what to do about it.

Our other kid isn’t as addicted. She loves her screen time, but also loves other things in life and will frequently choose another activity over the screen. I worry less about her because the screen isn’t the focus of her life - it’s just another thing that she really likes to do.

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2022, 11:52:48 AM »
My 14 y/o get 30 minutes after school and an hour from 8:30-9:30pm if h/w is done.

Next year, once in HS, the rule will probably be no gaming Mon-Thu during the school year.

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2022, 12:00:46 PM »
I’m posting mostly to follow.

We’ve struggled with screen time since everything got out of control during the full year of remote school. Especially with our older kid - now 9. That kid spends all of his waking hours trying to figure out how to get more screen time. As a parent, the amount of energy I have to expend to hold our limits is exhausting.

Right now our rule is that everything has to be put away, and all chores and school and family expectations fulfilled before getting on the iPad. But even that causes conflict. If our son finishes cleaning, homework, etc in the evening and then doesn’t get his screen time because dinner is ready or we need to head out somewhere as a family, he flips. He will even turn down going fun places so he might get screen time at home instead. It’s super unhealthy, but I’m not sure what to do about it.

Our other kid isn’t as addicted. She loves her screen time, but also loves other things in life and will frequently choose another activity over the screen. I worry less about her because the screen isn’t the focus of her life - it’s just another thing that she really likes to do.

We have a similar issue with one kid about same age. He would sell a finger for 5 more minutes watching his favorite YouTuber play Minecraft.  We limit YouTube to 10 minutes earned 20 minutes of reading time. The kids do not have any devices if their own. We have a Wii, one barely functioning ipad and some old cell phones that they might find in a drawer but, again, they aren't super useful. We have one home computer and everyone has a work/school laptop. But we limit their computer use outside of school.

Things that help. There is never an expectation of screen time. A limited amount of minutes can be earned and if my son throws a fit, we ignore him and it usually stops pretty quickly because we never give into it.  If it continues, we start taking things away until he gets the picture.  There's never an option to skip family/kid activities, events, or sports to stay home for screen time.  He's now signed up for a 1-2hr activity or sport practice 4-5 days out 7.  It sounds busy but he really needs it, whereas our other child does not. He also enjoys audio books and we are more liberal with watching movies with the family and cartoons on weekend mornings (because that's how we grew up 😂). 

rothwem

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2022, 07:04:35 AM »
Finally, I don't worry overly much about the "she needs to learn technology" argument.  For one thing, she does have some screen time (and she'll do things like Khan academy or Scratch).  For another, I'm in IT (as a semi-non-technical BA, but still) and I remember 10 years ago feeling like -- oh man, these digital natives are coming and they're going to run circles around self-taught old dogs like me.  I didn't have the internet until college and I got my first smart phone 5 years ago.  All I've found, though, is that they're much better than I am at social media.  Being a "skilled" consumer of technology is different (in my experience) than being good at using technology professionally or being able to build things with it.

I think this is a fair point to press. My wife and I take our stance on it primarily because we were raised in fairly restrictive households when it came to technology (well, in other areas too). Our parents actively avoided cable TV, computers, the Internet, video games, etc. I grew up watching OTA PBS and VHS movies, which was fine, but my wife grew up watching almost nothing. Neither of us grew up with access to the Internet (for whatever that was worth a couple decades ago), and my family never had a computer in the house until I was about 10.

It caused us both to have an unhealthy relationship with technology and the Internet. Each of us (despite growing up hundreds of miles apart) would often gravitate towards families who were lenient with TV/video games/Internet and heavily indulge in those things when our parents weren't around. Their intent behind deprivation was to show us that we could be just fine without, but all it did was give us an itch that had to be scratched.


I had a very similar upbringing in regards to screen time.  We had a 24" TV that we'd sometimes be allowed to watch VHS movies on for family movie night, but that was about it.  Once I started going to other friend's houses mostly unsupervised, we'd go and...watch TV.  To this day, I still find myself distracted if there's a TV in a bar or restaurant, so I usually try to face away from it if I can. 

On the other hand, my wife's family is the polar opposite.  Her father has the TV on all day, usually watching some stupid true crime shit or a hunting or reality show.  Or doctor Phil...fucking doctor Phil. It has clearly rotted HIS brain, but my wife seems to be immune to television.  She can read, talk on the phone, work, etc with the TV on and completely block it out.  Its a pretty impressive skill that I wish I had.  Maybe the key for kids is to make them watch stuff they find boring so they don't get as much of a dopamine spike from watching TV?

Em-Dog

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2022, 09:20:57 AM »
It may not work for older kids, but check out the 1000 hours outside challenge. Could be a good way to motivate and get yourself and your kids outside trying to hit a goal. Get a fun tracker you can fill in as you add hours. I'd think most outside hours are screen-less too, I don't have kids but I stumbled upon the challenge and think it's a really cool idea.

ETA website: https://www.1000hoursoutside.com/
« Last Edit: February 16, 2022, 09:28:58 AM by Em-Dog »

Tass

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2022, 12:20:19 PM »
It may not work for older kids, but check out the 1000 hours outside challenge. Could be a good way to motivate and get yourself and your kids outside trying to hit a goal. Get a fun tracker you can fill in as you add hours. I'd think most outside hours are screen-less too, I don't have kids but I stumbled upon the challenge and think it's a really cool idea.

ETA website: https://www.1000hoursoutside.com/

Clicked on this website and very quickly dissolved into giggles as the second thing on their homepage - ostensibly about replacing screen time with outdoor experiences - is a plea to "Join us on Instagram!"

Em-Dog

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2022, 07:09:21 AM »
It may not work for older kids, but check out the 1000 hours outside challenge. Could be a good way to motivate and get yourself and your kids outside trying to hit a goal. Get a fun tracker you can fill in as you add hours. I'd think most outside hours are screen-less too, I don't have kids but I stumbled upon the challenge and think it's a really cool idea.

ETA website: https://www.1000hoursoutside.com/

Clicked on this website and very quickly dissolved into giggles as the second thing on their homepage - ostensibly about replacing screen time with outdoor experiences - is a plea to "Join us on Instagram!"

Lol Fail! Anyways use the ideas to get outside and the free trackers- don't spend all your time on Instagram or online forums!

ETA- it's just a joke, I'm a forum user too and love it here
« Last Edit: February 17, 2022, 07:26:41 AM by Em-Dog »

jac941

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2022, 08:18:47 AM »
I had a very similar upbringing in regards to screen time.  We had a 24" TV that we'd sometimes be allowed to watch VHS movies on for family movie night, but that was about it.  Once I started going to other friend's houses mostly unsupervised, we'd go and...watch TV.  To this day, I still find myself distracted if there's a TV in a bar or restaurant, so I usually try to face away from it if I can. 

On the other hand, my wife's family is the polar opposite.  Her father has the TV on all day, usually watching some stupid true crime shit or a hunting or reality show.  Or doctor Phil...fucking doctor Phil. It has clearly rotted HIS brain, but my wife seems to be immune to television.  She can read, talk on the phone, work, etc with the TV on and completely block it out.  Its a pretty impressive skill that I wish I had.  Maybe the key for kids is to make them watch stuff they find boring so they don't get as much of a dopamine spike from watching TV?

I don’t know about this theory. I grew up in a house with the TV on all the time like your wife, but I’m like you - I find TVs very distracting. Even if I have no interest in watching what’s on them, I have a hard time turning away.

I’ve never had cable TV as an adult. I hate having screens in the house, so all TV / movie watching happens on personal devices (iPads/laptops) or on our monitor for our office setup.

My kids still get plenty of screen time.

Tass

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2022, 10:11:03 AM »
my wife seems to be immune to television.  She can read, talk on the phone, work, etc with the TV on and completely block it out.  Its a pretty impressive skill that I wish I had.  Maybe the key for kids is to make them watch stuff they find boring so they don't get as much of a dopamine spike from watching TV?

How often does this skill really become useful, though? While visiting your in-laws and whenever you go to a sports bar? It seems like most circumstances you need to ignore a TV can be avoided or are rare enough to be tolerated. I also cannot ignore TVs, but the exposure therapy you suggest seems unlikely to work and also miserable to implement.

VaCPA

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2022, 05:41:13 AM »
Within the last month we went no screen time during the week for the kids. It's just ridiculous how they instinctively gravitate towards screens for entertainment. My 11 year old said one of his friends asked him if we were really strict parents when he told him(haha, we're not). Anyways, I think limiting it in some way is a must these days. Keeping them active in sports/activities really helps a lot too.

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2022, 06:26:34 AM »
My wife and I were previously fairly strict about screen time (1 hour per day), but it was easier when we only had 2 TV's and a computer reserved for adults.

As Covid hit in early 2020 and schools went virtual, IPads were distributed to the kids as well as laptops to use at home and later to keep using at school. From my personal experience, the ratio of personal "fun" use of those screens to actual school/education use is probably 100:1, maybe higher. What a waste of resources.

In any case, I've noted that my relationship with my elementary school aged children has now become an endless series of, "Can I get more screen time?, Can I talk to my friends (while playing a video game)?, or He got more time than me!, or Everyone else gets to play Fortnite!"

I'm tired of it. It's exhausting. I don't want my entire relationship with my children to be me having to police their screens. They, unfortunately, do not have the capacity to self regulate this intentionally addictive form of entertainment.

So..... I'm taking away all screens entirely in about 1 month. They are getting ample time to prepare themselves emotionally AND for Covid Omicron to resolve so that we can set up more neighborhood play dates and the weather will improve a bit to encourage more outside time.

Pray for me.

JGS

Yesterday was Day 1 of "No Screen Time"

The kids were prepared as I had been preaching for weeks about it.

Was a massive success! TV's are unplugged and in closets. IPads are hidden as well. The weather is cooperating and the kids were outside in the sun until 645 PM last night or so. 3-4 friends came over to play from the neighborhood. I may be projecting here, but I feel like the kids were relieved to be unshackled to screens. I asked kids for appropriate punishment if they break the rules, and they said "another month of no screens". I think they get it.

Further updates forthcoming...

E.T.

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2022, 07:54:54 AM »
The problem with just accepting screen time as The Inevitable Future is that the science has found a clear association between screen time and reduced intelligence, creativity, and self management skills.

https://healthmatters.nyp.org/what-does-too-much-screen-time-do-to-childrens-brains/amp/
https://hms.harvard.edu/news/screen-time-brain
https://time.com/5514539/screen-time-children-brain/?amp=true

We could be stumbling into a fall of Rome scenario, where where a whole population’s IQ is lowered a few points via screen time instead of lead plumbing.

A note for the first link you shared, that was based on the ABCD study initial findings in 2018. New findings from that same study were published which suggested that previous negative outcomes were overestimated.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/09/210910121703.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily%2Fmind_brain%2Fparenting+%28Parenting+News+--+ScienceDaily%29

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2022, 05:06:32 PM »
Thanks for the inspiration! And thanks for the book rec, @StarBright! We took all the kid screens away 10 days ago and it has made a big difference in my 8 year old's behavior already. After my husband reads the book we will discuss what to bring back - probably Friday Family Movie Night. The failure is my screen detox ☹️ though I have taken several long walks without my phone.

FLBiker

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2022, 09:37:22 AM »
It's very interesting to hear how the detoxes are going, thanks for sharing.

As shared upthread, we're a pretty low screen family (outside of work hours, at least).  For me, quality makes a big difference, too (in additional to quantity).  For example, I wouldn't let my kid (age 6) watch 30 seconds of an unboxing video but I'm fine with an episode of Mr. Rogers (even though it's a lot longer).

JGS1980

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2022, 09:56:23 AM »
My wife and I were previously fairly strict about screen time (1 hour per day), but it was easier when we only had 2 TV's and a computer reserved for adults.

As Covid hit in early 2020 and schools went virtual, IPads were distributed to the kids as well as laptops to use at home and later to keep using at school. From my personal experience, the ratio of personal "fun" use of those screens to actual school/education use is probably 100:1, maybe higher. What a waste of resources.

In any case, I've noted that my relationship with my elementary school aged children has now become an endless series of, "Can I get more screen time?, Can I talk to my friends (while playing a video game)?, or He got more time than me!, or Everyone else gets to play Fortnite!"

I'm tired of it. It's exhausting. I don't want my entire relationship with my children to be me having to police their screens. They, unfortunately, do not have the capacity to self regulate this intentionally addictive form of entertainment.

So..... I'm taking away all screens entirely in about 1 month. They are getting ample time to prepare themselves emotionally AND for Covid Omicron to resolve so that we can set up more neighborhood play dates and the weather will improve a bit to encourage more outside time.

Pray for me.

JGS

Yesterday was Day 1 of "No Screen Time"

The kids were prepared as I had been preaching for weeks about it.

Was a massive success! TV's are unplugged and in closets. IPads are hidden as well. The weather is cooperating and the kids were outside in the sun until 645 PM last night or so. 3-4 friends came over to play from the neighborhood. I may be projecting here, but I feel like the kids were relieved to be unshackled to screens. I asked kids for appropriate punishment if they break the rules, and they said "another month of no screens". I think they get it.

Further updates forthcoming...

So today is Day 10 of our Screen Detox and my wife and I are very pleased with how well it is working.

Kids have adapted and are playing more with their toys/pokemon inside, sports/friends outside, and board games/cards as well. My 9 year old asked me to play a round of chess with him yesterday, and I was busy but of course you have to make time for something like that.

I've started a Monday Cards night with my father and the kids too, and my dad is the sllloowwwwessstttt card player you can ever imagine, but this was a hit too because it's quality time for everyone.

Even my wife told me things were working well, and that we should keep doing it.  This despite the fact that my wonderful beautiful youngest child is VERY high energy, needy, and loud. She notes that our almost 5 year old has been doing a lot more imaginative play and more artsy stuff as well. Together she and my wife are growing seeds in the attic which are beginning to sprout now.

In summary ->this has been an enjoyable change for our family. I think sufficient lead time got the older two kids on board. Spousal agreement is a necessity. This is MORE work/time for the parents, but this also FORCES us parents to spend more quality time with the kids. And once the kids get that time, they get bored of us and go play on their own.

djadziadax

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #44 on: March 29, 2022, 02:32:13 PM »
This topic is a concern of every parent, thanks for starting. My stream of consciousness...

We have a 6 yr old, with whom we are extremely strict with screen time - I am in tech and am painfully aware of how software is programmed to keep you hooked. It is hard for adults, it is hard for kids, it is basically extremely hard to resist. One MUST AVOID SOCIAL MEDIA APPS, they are truly crack cokain

For our kid  - Basically, the kid has watched TV twice - both times the Thanksgiving Day Parade. Other than that, out TV is "broken" - we do not have cable, only over the air antenna, which we hide behind the TV so if you try to turn it on, it really does not work.

Only streaming service is Amazon Prime, as we really watch shows very rarely - last show we watched, us adults, was The Expanse, before that was Star Trek.

The kid got a chromebook this year, to use in and out of classroom. That chromebook is used only for supervised homework, and we all know that it is used as a tool for school. From school the kid sees others playing games, and begged one day to play a game so we did together. Then we said, no more, you get a book on a similar theme and we read it and draw. No more begging for a game.

The kids does not get any online games/videos/youtubes/educational videos, etc (well maybe 30 min once a week, last week we watched how steel is made because she saw me watching an interview with a steel company CEO, LOL). During the pandemic we would allow 30 min of music and movement videos every 4 days. In Feb we watched 2 full length classical ballets.

All of that is to say, it has been very hard for us parents to maintain this, but it is paying off as there is no struggle for screen time at all in our household. But that take long term dedication and consistency.

Not sure how that can be maintained with peer pressure rising in higher grades...but at least we held the fort for 6 yrs.

My thinking longer term:

Get the kid engaged in a productive relationship with the chromebook/table, i.e. use it as a creative tool. We explored Scratch and Scratch Jr. will probably take lessons in that.

Get the kid in a sport/sports.

Get the kid in hands on lessons in art/music. If the hands are occupied, no time for holding a phone.

NaN

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #45 on: March 30, 2022, 06:52:30 AM »
Seems like a good approach for adults - though I think that's what that lent thing is giving up stuff.

I dunno, my view is screens are like more sweets than drugs. I know kids that grew up without any candy went nuts in college and then had weight issues. I am not sure where the line should be, but I will be concerned about that when my daughter is old enough to use a screen. At the moment she doesn't see screens often.

djadziadax

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2022, 02:31:41 PM »
I dunno, my view is screens are like more sweets than drugs.
Both sugar and games/apps release dopamine, which is the same hormone released by drugs. That is why those things are addictive, i.e. there is a compulsion of use associated with them.

https://now.northropgrumman.com/this-is-your-brain-on-instagram-effects-of-social-media-on-the-brain/

"Likes, comments, and shares are all potential sources of these unexpected gains, stimulating the nucleus accumbens, activating the dopamine response from the VTA.

Over time, the nucleus accumbens adapts to the dopamine response, requiring increasing stimulation" Source:
https://steverosephd.com/why-we-are-addicted-to-likes/

Tass

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2022, 04:34:54 PM »
I dunno, my view is screens are like more sweets than drugs.

In this metaphor I think that screens (or at least social media) are more like alcohol than hard drugs. Something that kids will eventually need to be able to interact with in typical adult life, but still not something you want to expose them to during development, especially early development.

Repeating my caveat that I am not a parent, just interested in this topic.

djadziadax

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #48 on: March 31, 2022, 08:45:40 PM »
I dunno, my view is screens are like more sweets than drugs.

In this metaphor I think that screens (or at least social media) are more like alcohol than hard drugs. Something that kids will eventually need to be able to interact with in typical adult life, but still not something you want to expose them to during development, especially early development.

Repeating my caveat that I am not a parent, just interested in this topic.

This is a keen observation -- effect on young brain is even more pronounced than in adults. And yes probably a lot more accurate than hard drugs metaphor. But alcohol/sugar/drugs actually has a physical effect that is observably detrimental (i.e. swirrled speach, disorientation, sleepiness, aggressiveness, etc) so it is easy to point out the "bad" outcome along with the "good, fun" outcome of moderation.

The compulsion effect of the internet/social media is not observable, and it is mostly chemically psychological so it is really hard to point out to someone why it is bad to be staring at their phones all day. So to me it is very sinister, it is really a siren call.

Very difficult topic especially when it comes to kids.

getsorted

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Re: No More Screen Time!!!
« Reply #49 on: May 10, 2022, 09:46:36 AM »
We do screen-free Sundays and limit screen use to 30 minutes on weekday evenings - with an exception for a Friday night movie. No screens before school, no particular limits on Saturdays. I'm strongly considering instituting a screen-free summer but I suspect I will be met with resistance. Kid and I are both creatures who thrive on routine, so he generally accepts the limit, understands why it's in place, etc. We sometimes make exceptions for sickness or being snowed in, etc., but having the general rule makes it easier. He also rats himself out if he exceeds it at his dad's house or a friends house, which I find hilarious.

The hard part is modeling that myself!

 

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