Author Topic: my son only likes corn dogs  (Read 17164 times)

hoping2retire35

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my son only likes corn dogs
« on: October 13, 2016, 07:01:25 AM »
really struggling trying to get him to eat well. it's only corndogs and crackers for him.

Most of the online stuff says how to make tastier food or just send them to bed without food. I am pretty sure he would refuse to eat, he is already pretty skinny. We are quite capable of cooking very tasty food. I made some sirloin steak this past weekend and he had a few bites but later I tried to reheat it hoping he would eat more but refused.

I wonder if he just wants food with more salt or he needs more sleep or some other behavior issue, he is very stubborn. Wife texts me saying she is using nitrate free hotdogs to make homemade corndogs this morning. So that is where we are. Help!

shusherstache

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2016, 07:29:13 AM »
I would read up on Ellyn Satter's work. See the Division of Responsibility and maybe a book like Child of Mine: http://ellynsatterinstitute.org/dor/divisionofresponsibilityinfeeding.php

In particular, I've found a book for adoptive children to be very reassuring for introducing new foods:Love Me, Feed Me: The Adoptive Parent’s Guide to Ending the Worry About Weight, Picky Eating, Power Struggles and More.

hoping2retire35

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2016, 07:34:22 AM »
Thanks. I'll check them out. Library sale today, eta is 30 mins. I'll see what I can find.

69mach351

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2016, 07:49:00 AM »
I am not sure how old your kid is, but we have a 6 year old that can be a picky eater.  When he was 5, we finally had to put our foot down and tell him that he will eat what we are eating (most of the time) or he will go hungry.  There is no more picking and choosing or making multiple meals, every meal.  The first week or so, he chose to test it and go hungry.  Some nights he was fine, others, after a few hours he would ask for something to eat.  We offered him healthy, easy options (fruit, granola, yogurt, etc.).  Once he found out that those were his choices and that wasn't changing, he chose to eat what we were having or ask for something that was more simple & healthy.  Now, we can have cookies on the counter or go out to eat and fries are an option for a side, and better than half the time, he is picking fruits or veggies to eat. 

It was a little uncomfortable and made us cringe a little at the beginning, but my thought process was that if he wasn't hungry enough to eat something good for him (of which he had multiple options) then he obviously wasn't that hungry.   We also gave him age appropriate vitamins.  Anyways, that is what worked for us.  Each kid is different though.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 07:51:17 AM by 69mach351 »

ketchup

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2016, 08:15:41 AM »
Whatever you do end up doing, it'll be worth it.

I was that stubborn kid.  90%+ of what I ate was either pasta with ketchup or peanut butter sandwiches.

I grew out of it on my own at about age 20.  Earlier would have been better.  I think part of the problem was that my parents were really bad at cooking vegetables and making them taste good (at the height of 90s fat-phobia I suppose).

KCM5

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2016, 08:20:09 AM »
Our system is to give them a variety of food, with one item that we know the child will eat. And then don't worry about it and let the child eat what is available. This is obviously a bit challenging as you really have to give up control to the child. And make sure that everything available is a healthy choice that you would be happy with your child eating.

We put a tiny bit of each food on the plate, and don't require that the child actually try everything. If he eats, he eats. If he doesn't, he doesn't.

So if I were you I would serve a corn dog, and a couple of veggie choices, a fruit, and then whatever else you want for the main part of the meal that you and your wife will eat, with enough for your child too if he chooses to try it (I'm assuming you don't want a corn dog for dinner!).

hoping2retire35

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2016, 10:13:36 AM »
Went to the library sale, picked up some adoption parenting books, nothing on feeding/nutrition behaviors. Might just pick a long weekend when we can both be around in full force to try and starve him out of this. Not even sure how he started liking corn dogs, probably went to a festival then to some restaurant where that was a kid option then it was on.

Whatever you do end up doing, it'll be worth it.

I was that stubborn kid.  90%+ of what I ate was either pasta with ketchup or peanut butter sandwiches.

I grew out of it on my own at about age 20.  Earlier would have been better.  I think part of the problem was that my parents were really bad at cooking vegetables and making them taste good (at the height of 90s fat-phobia I suppose).
Ketchup? Based on your past post I clearly took you for a mustard eater.

KCM5

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2016, 10:28:50 AM »
Went to the library sale, picked up some adoption parenting books, nothing on feeding/nutrition behaviors. Might just pick a long weekend when we can both be around in full force to try and starve him out of this.

I don't think "starving him out of this" is quite the answer. Give him a chance to get familiar with the foods that you're serving while providing him with something that he will eat.

Take a look at the Ellyn Satter Institute like shusherstache posted. Also this: http://ellynsatterinstitute.org/htf/thepickyeater.php

Ceridwen

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2016, 11:11:49 AM »
My son was a very picky eater from the ages of 2 & 3.  We ended up seeking professional help from a clinic.  The advice that stuck with me was:

- You are in charge of offering the food, he is in charge of whether he eats it or not.  That's how we presented every meal.  This is what we're eating, but you don't have to eat it.  No snacks to supplement skipped meals.  It was surprisingly little drama.

- Each meal has 1 favourite food, 1 previously rejected food, and 1 new food. 

I know it can be really stressful on parents, but try not to give in and serve him only the foods he likes.  He is not getting the nutrition he needs from corndogs and crackers.

My son is 5 now and though he is still a picky eater compared with most of his peers, he has a decent balanced diet and is almost always willing to try "just a bite" of new foods.  Earlier this week he declared chicken curry to be his new favourite food, which seemed unimaginable 2 years ago.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2016, 11:19:26 AM »
+1 Ellyn Sattler. Love her. It is not clear to me why you would not check the book out while you were at the library :-). We have free books, too! Secrets of Feeding a Healthy Family is interesting and kind of counterintuitive. (It has a lot of dense text. Don't be deterred.)

hoping2retire35

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2016, 11:35:25 AM »
she is not in the regular catalog. the sale stuff is kinda hard to find specific books or just verify they don't have them.

I always look for dense reading. can't stand the verbose fluffy stuff.

My son was a very picky eater from the ages of 2 & 3.  We ended up seeking professional help from a clinic.  The advice that stuck with me was:

- You are in charge of offering the food, he is in charge of whether he eats it or not.  That's how we presented every meal.  This is what we're eating, but you don't have to eat it.  No snacks to supplement skipped meals.  It was surprisingly little drama.

- Each meal has 1 favourite food, 1 previously rejected food, and 1 new food.

I know it can be really stressful on parents, but try not to give in and serve him only the foods he likes.  He is not getting the nutrition he needs from corndogs and crackers.

My son is 5 now and though he is still a picky eater compared with most of his peers, he has a decent balanced diet and is almost always willing to try "just a bite" of new foods.  Earlier this week he declared chicken curry to be his new favourite food, which seemed unimaginable 2 years ago.

might try this systematically. he always removes food from his plate if he doesn't want it too though, just have to be firm it stays on the plate. snacking in our house is bad, really need locks on our fridge (already on the pantry), seems cruel but it would help just to have them available.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2016, 11:46:31 AM »
she is not in the regular catalog. the sale stuff is kinda hard to find specific books or just verify they don't have them.

I always look for dense reading. can't stand the verbose fluffy stuff.

My son was a very picky eater from the ages of 2 & 3.  We ended up seeking professional help from a clinic.  The advice that stuck with me was:

- You are in charge of offering the food, he is in charge of whether he eats it or not.  That's how we presented every meal.  This is what we're eating, but you don't have to eat it.  No snacks to supplement skipped meals.  It was surprisingly little drama.

- Each meal has 1 favourite food, 1 previously rejected food, and 1 new food.

I know it can be really stressful on parents, but try not to give in and serve him only the foods he likes.  He is not getting the nutrition he needs from corndogs and crackers.

My son is 5 now and though he is still a picky eater compared with most of his peers, he has a decent balanced diet and is almost always willing to try "just a bite" of new foods.  Earlier this week he declared chicken curry to be his new favourite food, which seemed unimaginable 2 years ago.

might try this systematically. he always removes food from his plate if he doesn't want it too though, just have to be firm it stays on the plate. snacking in our house is bad, really need locks on our fridge (already on the pantry), seems cruel but it would help just to have them available.

Scheduled snacks is one of her BIG things for kids and adults. NO GRAZING! A snack, sure. One snack, eaten at the table, then you wait for dinner.

I do not put food on my kids' plate unless they ask for it. They take it off, as you know, and then it's a power struggle. Food as a power struggle will always, always, always be a losing battle for all of you.

ILL or buy from Amazon :-). Good luck!

mxt0133

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2016, 12:09:50 PM »
One aspect that you might not be taking into account is the child exercising autonomy and/or independence.  So it might not be the corn dogs and crackers per se but just the child trying to get a reaction from the parents.

I know my child went through a similar phase and the more I insisted the more he stood his ground.  Eventually I just let him be.  This is what we have we will not cook anything special for you.  From there I just kept asking him if he wants something vs putting in on his plate.  For some reason me giving the choice will make him more likely to eat whatever we have for dinner.

 

GuitarStv

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2016, 12:20:13 PM »
You know where are no picky eaters?  Africa!  Hunger is a powerful seasoning.  If your kid (or dog) has no major health issues and is refusing perfectly good food, they aren't hungry.  They'll learn to eat the food they're given if you don't give them a choice.

scrubbyfish

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2016, 12:20:43 PM »
For Reasons, I believe picky eating to not be poor behaviour, a power dynamic, etc, but about biology, and specifically gut bacteria. A kid with imbalanced bacteria will be at the mercy of that, physically unable to do other food naturally. In my experience, changing the gut bacteria resolves the matter quickly and easily. There are lots of resources on doing so.

ketchup

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2016, 12:45:31 PM »
You know where are no picky eaters?  Africa!  Hunger is a powerful seasoning.  If your kid (or dog) has no major health issues and is refusing perfectly good food, they aren't hungry.  They'll learn to eat the food they're given if you don't give them a choice.
My experience is that this works for dogs, but it also means they'll grab a half pound of raw bacon clean out of your hands on your way from the fridge to the stove. :(

hoping2retire35

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2016, 12:45:57 PM »
YEAH!

the twins can be quite ravenous if they know there is icecream in the house

http://www.livestrong.com/article/484026-does-frozen-yogurt-contain-live-cultures-like-l-acidophilus/

Guses

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2016, 02:26:38 PM »

- Each meal has 1 favourite food, 1 previously rejected food, and 1 new food. 

Do you provide more of the favourite food if the child has eaten the portion on the plate? If yes, doesn't that provide a disincentive for trying the new food?

My 2 year old absolutely refuses to eat anything new these days. Quite frankly getting tired of this....

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2016, 02:42:44 PM »

- Each meal has 1 favourite food, 1 previously rejected food, and 1 new food. 

Do you provide more of the favourite food if the child has eaten the portion on the plate? If yes, doesn't that provide a disincentive for trying the new food?

My 2 year old absolutely refuses to eat anything new these days. Quite frankly getting tired of this....

Ellyn Sattler says yes, you give more. You put out foods. The child chooses what and how much to eat. There should be leftovers because that's how you know there was enough. Exceptions apply to expensive foods like steak or strawberries or whatever--there, you might have just one for everybody. And dessert is also one-per-customer. Supposedly, the things they eat balance out over time. My meals are a lot more pleasant (if maybe a touch more work to plan, since I serve more "side dishes"*) since I stopped being the food police. Fifth biscuit? Help yourself, kid. I just provide healthy food and don't stress myself about overconsumption of of bread or underconsumption of veggies. It will even out eventually.

*Where "side dishes" is defined loosely and may include, for instance, slices of American cheese. Or peas straight from the freezer, which Little Brother is partial to.

GuitarStv

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2016, 03:03:55 PM »

- Each meal has 1 favourite food, 1 previously rejected food, and 1 new food. 

Do you provide more of the favourite food if the child has eaten the portion on the plate? If yes, doesn't that provide a disincentive for trying the new food?

My 2 year old absolutely refuses to eat anything new these days. Quite frankly getting tired of this....

Ellyn Sattler says yes, you give more. You put out foods. The child chooses what and how much to eat. There should be leftovers because that's how you know there was enough. Exceptions apply to expensive foods like steak or strawberries or whatever--there, you might have just one for everybody. And dessert is also one-per-customer. Supposedly, the things they eat balance out over time. My meals are a lot more pleasant (if maybe a touch more work to plan, since I serve more "side dishes"*) since I stopped being the food police. Fifth biscuit? Help yourself, kid. I just provide healthy food and don't stress myself about overconsumption of of bread or underconsumption of veggies. It will even out eventually.

*Where "side dishes" is defined loosely and may include, for instance, slices of American cheese. Or peas straight from the freezer, which Little Brother is partial to.

That's similar but different to what we do.  We put a very small amount of each food on our son's plate, and he has to try each one.  Then he can choose to have more of anything he wants.  If he doesn't try the food though, he doesn't get more.

This seems to have worked pretty well, and our son will try everything with little complaining at every meal now.

shusherstache

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2016, 03:23:24 PM »
The reason I mentioned the nutrition/adoption book Love Me, Feed Me above is because in addition to the Division of Responsibility, it focuses on something other choosy eater books might not - texture issues. Some people might find that additional perspective helpful for understanding the why.

Guses

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2016, 06:23:01 PM »

- Each meal has 1 favourite food, 1 previously rejected food, and 1 new food. 

Do you provide more of the favourite food if the child has eaten the portion on the plate? If yes, doesn't that provide a disincentive for trying the new food?

My 2 year old absolutely refuses to eat anything new these days. Quite frankly getting tired of this....

Ellyn Sattler says yes, you give more. You put out foods. The child chooses what and how much to eat. There should be leftovers because that's how you know there was enough. Exceptions apply to expensive foods like steak or strawberries or whatever--there, you might have just one for everybody. And dessert is also one-per-customer. Supposedly, the things they eat balance out over time. My meals are a lot more pleasant (if maybe a touch more work to plan, since I serve more "side dishes"*) since I stopped being the food police. Fifth biscuit? Help yourself, kid. I just provide healthy food and don't stress myself about overconsumption of of bread or underconsumption of veggies. It will even out eventually.

*Where "side dishes" is defined loosely and may include, for instance, slices of American cheese. Or peas straight from the freezer, which Little Brother is partial to.

That's similar but different to what we do.  We put a very small amount of each food on our son's plate, and he has to try each one.  Then he can choose to have more of anything he wants.  If he doesn't try the food though, he doesn't get more.

This seems to have worked pretty well, and our son will try everything with little complaining at every meal now.

But what if the kid does not want to try ANYTHING NEW? Like he looks at it and says "yuck" and then starts crying.

Do you force feed him? Let him only eat a bit and be super cranky?

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2016, 09:40:15 PM »
My boys are 6 and 8. They have never been super picky, but have gone through stages where they try to test it. My rule is that dinner is dinner, and they can choose to eat as much or as little as they want. But after dinner is over, if they are hungry then they only get carrots. We always have a bag of carrots in the fridge,  they both like them, and I don't mind if they get eaten right before bed.

gooki

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2016, 02:10:07 AM »
Don't force feed, let them be cranky.

MsRichLife

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2016, 03:16:53 AM »

But what if the kid does not want to try ANYTHING NEW? Like he looks at it and says "yuck" and then starts crying.

Do you force feed him? Let him only eat a bit and be super cranky?

We've have a 4 yr old picky eater. For new foods that he doesn't want to eat I take a laddered approach.

1.I just get him to sniff the food and praise if he does.
2. Then see if he'll lick it. Praise.
3. Put it in his mouth (can spit it out). Praise.
4. Put it in his mouth and chew before spitting out.
5. Chew and swallow

You get the picture. The main thing is that whatever level he gets to with a new food is success. It seems to be working. He feels more in control and we aren't as stressed that he's not progressing.

Anatidae V

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2016, 03:41:17 AM »
I liked "It's not about the broccoli", but I used it to get myself to expand on my own tastes after developing anxiety issues around food in my 20's. It's aimed for parents to help with children, and I'll be picking up a copy to have on hand once i have a child eating solids. I think corn dogs are crumbed sausages, is that right? Could you try crumbing other things to increase the variety of flavour, but not the texture, to start with?

Khaetra

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2016, 05:31:23 AM »
Quit catering to him!  If you're up in the morning making corn dogs for breakfast then you are losing the food battle big time and that's not good for any of you.  Instead, firmly say 'this is the last time I am making these for you, we will head to the store and you will choose what you'd like to eat instead'.  Then do just that and help pick out other choices: "Do you want pancakes, cereal or oatmeal for breakfast?  Peanut butter or bologna?  Carrots or corn to go with the chicken?".  He still get's to pick out what he eats and you are no longer a short-order cook.  If he eats what he chose, great.  If not, too bad, wait until the next meal time.  NO MORE CORN DOGS!!!!

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2016, 06:21:49 AM »
Have a 2 year old. My wife and I usually give 3 different foods (carb, protein, veggie) and will usually let our daughter choose  from limited choices (peas or edamame? oatmeal or cereal?)
We also have the rule that "you don't have to like it, but you do have to try it." She almost always will try a new food (we don't push to hard if she doesn't want to, because there are other options for her to eat), and then will either devour it or push it aside after telling us her thoughts on it.
If she wants seconds (thirds, fourths... toddlers can really eat) of something we'll have her eat one of the other things first that we know she likes. "OK, you can have more rice but first you need to eat 5 lima beans" and now it's a counting game.

But yeah, don't make something especially for your kid because they don't want the regular meal. My daughter is incredibly stubborn we've made it work with the above system

GuitarStv

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2016, 07:01:09 AM »

- Each meal has 1 favourite food, 1 previously rejected food, and 1 new food. 

Do you provide more of the favourite food if the child has eaten the portion on the plate? If yes, doesn't that provide a disincentive for trying the new food?

My 2 year old absolutely refuses to eat anything new these days. Quite frankly getting tired of this....

Ellyn Sattler says yes, you give more. You put out foods. The child chooses what and how much to eat. There should be leftovers because that's how you know there was enough. Exceptions apply to expensive foods like steak or strawberries or whatever--there, you might have just one for everybody. And dessert is also one-per-customer. Supposedly, the things they eat balance out over time. My meals are a lot more pleasant (if maybe a touch more work to plan, since I serve more "side dishes"*) since I stopped being the food police. Fifth biscuit? Help yourself, kid. I just provide healthy food and don't stress myself about overconsumption of of bread or underconsumption of veggies. It will even out eventually.

*Where "side dishes" is defined loosely and may include, for instance, slices of American cheese. Or peas straight from the freezer, which Little Brother is partial to.

That's similar but different to what we do.  We put a very small amount of each food on our son's plate, and he has to try each one.  Then he can choose to have more of anything he wants.  If he doesn't try the food though, he doesn't get more.

This seems to have worked pretty well, and our son will try everything with little complaining at every meal now.

But what if the kid does not want to try ANYTHING NEW? Like he looks at it and says "yuck" and then starts crying.

Do you force feed him? Let him only eat a bit and be super cranky?

No force feeding, it's his decision.  He knows the rules, and that the food at supper is the last food he gets until morning.

Your child is not going to starve to death if they skip a meal.

Khaetra

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2016, 07:26:15 AM »
Anatidae V: Corn dogs are hot dogs dipped in batter, then fried. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_dog

Ceridwen

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2016, 08:27:56 AM »

- Each meal has 1 favourite food, 1 previously rejected food, and 1 new food. 

Do you provide more of the favourite food if the child has eaten the portion on the plate? If yes, doesn't that provide a disincentive for trying the new food?

My 2 year old absolutely refuses to eat anything new these days. Quite frankly getting tired of this....

No, he would only get more of the favourite food if his plate was empty (eaten the new and previously rejected food).

BeanCounter

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2016, 08:59:04 AM »
 I'm a foodie. Love to cook. Love to eat. Everything. I fully expected that I would have children that would eat everything because that's the way I was. That did not happen.
Our really wonderful family doctor gave us this advice when our oldest started eating solids (at the age of 1)- "You make dinner. You put a little of everything on his little plate just like you make your plates. You sit down an eat together and you do not discuss food. You don't discuss what he eats or how much. Just let him do his thing. Have dessert once a week and everybody gets some no matter what. Offer snacks two times a day at the table, no grazing. No juice, offer milk or water."
He assured me that no matter what the kids would get what they need over a week or a month. He said if we started trying to control food we would lose.
My boys are picky. The 7 year old does seem to be growing out of it and is starting to try other things. The 4 year old is very sensitive to colors of food as well as textures. He will often reject something just because he thinks it looks funny. And we just tell him that's his choice, but this is what's for dinner. I do try to have at least one thing on the plate that I KNOW he likes. That way he gets something, but it doesn't look like he gets to choose a different dinner. I can't say that we have followed all of our doc's advice all of the time, but we try to stick to it. The boys are a healthy weight so nobody has starved yet despite some days it seems like they haven't eaten much at all. They get more sugar from school and other outside sources than is probably healthy, but I try not to make a big deal out of it and just make sure I serve healthy stuff at home.

gatortator

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2016, 10:07:23 AM »
I recommend the book "French Kids Eat Everything" by Karen LeBillon.

It explores the efforts of a Canadian mother in her attempts to improve the eating habits of her picky children when they move to her husband's hometown in France.  The book contains practical tips to improve eating habits of kids as well as cultural observations about attitudes towards food in Canada vs France.   

The book is written fairly honestly in terms the author's own kitchen failures and successes.  The author is in academia (though in a unreleated subject matter), so the book is well referenced.  It reads like a mainstream book though.

She also has a blog.  www.karenlebillon.com

gatortator

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2016, 10:31:26 AM »
One thing, that started out as lazy parenting, but has really help me:  Gave my 3 yr old decaf coffee samples at the grocery store.  (We called it baby coffee)

I initially did it so he would have something to eat/drink and stop fussing.  Coffee is the only free sample our main grocery store has.

By not putting cream or sugar in it though,  he now has exposure to a food source on the bitter side.  And this acclimation to bitter (he chooses how much he drinks),  has helped with introducing more bitter vegetables.

Plain club soda is also on the bitter side.  It may also help as sneaky way to gently introduce the bitter taste.

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2016, 10:41:15 AM »
One thing, that started out as lazy parenting, but has really help me:  Gave my 3 yr old decaf coffee samples at the grocery store.  (We called it baby coffee)

I initially did it so he would have something to eat/drink and stop fussing.  Coffee is the only free sample our main grocery store has.

By not putting cream or sugar in it though,  he now has exposure to a food source on the bitter side.  And this acclimation to bitter (he chooses how much he drinks),  has helped with introducing more bitter vegetables.

Plain club soda is also on the bitter side.  It may also help as sneaky way to gently introduce the bitter taste.
This is interesting. I really think that some of my kids pickiness is because in daycare and school they have been overly exposed to what I call "kid food". Chicken nuggets, hot dogs, mac and cheese etc. Once they new that stuff was available and that's what "other kids ate" they started turning up their noses to avocado, hummus, edamame etc. I still serve it because they get what we eat, but they often pass it over.

thingamabobs

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2016, 11:59:32 AM »
read: French Kids Eat Everything by Karen Le Billon

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2016, 12:10:00 PM »
The reason I mentioned the nutrition/adoption book Love Me, Feed Me above is because in addition to the Division of Responsibility, it focuses on something other choosy eater books might not - texture issues. Some people might find that additional perspective helpful for understanding the why.

Texture issues are a real thing. I'm 31 now, and a lot of the foods I don't eat aren't for taste, but texture. Trying not to gag at the texture is not going to encourage eating that food. I can develop or (less commonly) get over texture issues even now.

Growing up, my parents insisted we try everything on the plate, but we didn't have to clean the plate. They never pushed us to eat everything on our plate, and in fact my mom had a massive fight at Thanksgiving one year when someone tried to insist that I finish everything on my plate before I got dessert. (Mom won.) Of course, the dessert I was handed was pumpkin pie, and that incident resulted in a life-long aversion to pumpkin anything. (Mom wasn't aware until afterwards, then she was PISSED). That was also the last Thanksgiving we spent with that batch of family.

Khaetra

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2016, 01:04:48 PM »

Texture issues are a real thing. I'm 31 now, and a lot of the foods I don't eat aren't for taste, but texture. Trying not to gag at the texture is not going to encourage eating that food. I can develop or (less commonly) get over texture issues even now.

Texture issues are real as I have a few myself and being forced to eat things that I couldn't stand when I was young didn't help matters.  I still cannot (read won't) eat things like pot roast, peas, lima beans, etc.  I do however eat a large variety of others things, as does my son whose favorite thing when he was little was spinach :).

nobody123

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2016, 01:09:11 PM »
Stick to your guns and remember who the parents are.  I tell my kids that "starving is an option."  The rule in our house is that you have to at least try a bite of everything that is prepared.  If it is a new food that we're not sure they'll like, we only put one or two bites on their plates so it doesn't go to waste.  If they want to starve after that, it's fine with us, but they will sit there politely until the rest of the family has finished eating.  Usually after a few minutes they'll eat whatever they were rejecting once they see everyone else enjoying it.  On the rare occasions they refuse to eat anything beyond the initial bites, they can have something like an apple or carrot sticks.  Our pediatrician says they'll eat if they're hungry, so if they choose to skip a meal because they are in a mood it's OK.

My 4 year old would eat chicken nuggets or mini corn dogs every day if we let him.  He is much pickier than his older brother ever was.  We've found that for veggies, if we put a tiny bit of ketchup or ranch for him to dip them in (not enough to coat all of them) on his plate and tell him that's all he gets, he'll end up eating all of the veggies even if he runs out of the condiment half way through.  I am guessing it's more of a control thing for him than not liking the food itself, but who really cares.

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2016, 03:15:35 PM »
Kids will not starve themselves to death.  Even scrawny kids would not die without food for 48 hours.

Try the following:
1)  Put a plate in front of them with a decent variety of tasty healthy food, no corn dog.
2)  Take it away after 30 minutes.
3)  No snacks until the next meal time.
4)  Repeat

Try this for 2 days.  If they go through 2 days eating nothing, revert to corn dogs.  Trust me, by the second meal of being hungry they will start eating something.  If they seem desperate (well if you are desperate), pull their leftovers out of the fridge as their "snack", do not allow anything else.

Full disclaimer:  Our 4 year old kid is not a picky eater.  He tries now and then.  We don't make him eat spicy things and accommodate a few requests (no raw onions on his plate, no iceberg lettuce in his salads for example), but we don't make special food for him.  He either gets leftovers, or what we are eating (often one in the same).  One of his little friends gets the leftovers from the previous meal first before even getting the new food, even if the plate is on its third attempt.  We don't go that far, but also don't waste much food either.

It helps a lot when he "helps" make dinner, or has been part of the menu choices.  Several foods he refused to sample became favorites after he helped chop them up with his nylon knife and finally tried them.  We still do Mac and Cheese now and then at his request, maybe 1-2 times a week at most.  Call it directed democracy rather than full dictatorship.

In general steak is very hard for kids to chew and enjoy.  Chicken thighs and salmon are common in our house as meat sources to avoid resorting to hot dogs and chicken nuggets.  We will also give out kid extra cheese and avacado on steak fajita night and he ends up happy.  Meat is more optional for little ones as long as they have access to some protien now and then (eggs and puffy pancakes with high egg content are common sources for our kid).   I ask my kid to at least try a taste of everything on his plate, and he mostly obliges.  If he eats pretty lightly we don't allow dessert, no exceptions.

We do have a rule in the house that if you take it, you have to finish it.  We had to get harsh here after he started taking large seconds and only eating a bite.  He has gotten much better at taking a more appropriate amount for seconds or thirds.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 03:26:40 PM by moof »

scrubbyfish

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2016, 05:02:00 PM »
Our pediatrician says they'll eat if they're hungry...

Just a cautionary tale that I've seen this prove untrue with several kids. But, when our pediatrician pointed us to the gut bacteria piece, we saw profound, fast results—i.e., all "behavioural" issues, including "picky eating," suddenly resolved in all of the kids involved in the group.

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2016, 05:18:33 PM »
Our pediatrician says they'll eat if they're hungry...

Just a cautionary tale that I've seen this prove untrue with several kids. But, when our pediatrician pointed us to the gut bacteria piece, we saw profound, fast results—i.e., all "behavioural" issues, including "picky eating," suddenly resolved in all of the kids involved in the group.

While I'm not exactly sure how gut bacteria will control the taste and enjoyment of food at the table, I'll bite.  What exactly does one do to cause good gut bacteria to be generated?

scrubbyfish

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #42 on: October 14, 2016, 05:31:49 PM »
While I'm not exactly sure how gut bacteria will control the taste and enjoyment of food at the table, I'll bite.  What exactly does one do to cause good gut bacteria to be generated?

Well, I don't mean for anyone to "bite" (no pun intended! woohoo!). It's super Googleable (e.g., gut bacteria picky eating; change gut bacteria; etc), and I don't want to divert this thread into a bacterial one. I just wanted to mention this track for people interested in checking that out, along with whatever other ideas mentioned that suit any given family.

As you note, it's not about controlling the objective characteristics of foods, because one's gut bacteria doesn't influence that. Rather, it's about how one's senses are controlled by one's gut bacteria. I find it crazy interesting. My kid was a very extreme example, and the change was stunning. I've seen the same in many others.

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2016, 04:37:27 AM »
I was a picky eater as a child and it turned into a HUGE DEAL because my parents would try to insist that I finished my dinner every time. I was stubborn as hell so I dug my heels in, but it also made me anxious around mealtimes (feeling like everyone was watching me and pressuring me) which made me lose my appetite. I had definite texture issues (hated 'slimy' food and liked crunchy food, still do) but left to my own devices I would have had a fairly repetitive but not unhealthy diet. (I could have eaten pasta with tinned tuna, peas and broccoli with apple pie to follow for dinner every day, which is not that unreasonable in terms of nutrients, really.) We had huge fights that usually ended in me crying, even when I was nine or ten which is way too old to burst into tears over dinner.

I only really grew out of it when I left home and could choose to eat exactly what I wanted when I wanted. I absolutely had a short period of eating everything I was never allowed at home, from Haribo to Ribena to Nutella, but that settled down quite quickly. I'm still suspicious of new foods initially but am much more willing to try things now it's my idea.

My advice is really the same as everyone else in this thread.

1. Cook dinner.
2. Place dinner in front of child.
3. Eat your dinner (or do something else like clean the kitchen if you're eating at a different time. Don't just sit there and watch them.)
4. Clear up.

What your child does or does not eat during step 3 is none of your business. Don't discuss it. Make a huge effort to just not care while you're sat at the table. It's kind in step 1 to choose some foods they definitely like from time to time, and to pay attention to the sorts of things they like (do they also go for raw vegetables? Is anything OK when it's covered in cheese sauce?) but if you make an effort to offer variety it won't be crucial. If they are hungry later, I would allow them a snack if it's been a few hours, but I would make it the exact same boring snack every single time - like a bit of apple or a piece of mild cheese - whatever they'll eat but don't especially like. If they're hungry they'll go for it, but snacks don't mean treats. I think getting out leftovers again is mean - I wouldn't do that.

And pick a length of time to do this for. I would say no snacks for the first 48 hours, and you have to stick to your guns completely about just giving them dinner and ignoring them eating it for a month. If you're still having huge problems at that time and have seen no improvement, see a doctor in case it is a health issue. I reckon as a very stubborn and anxious picky eater it might have taken me up to a week to crack if my parents had done this totally consistently. Maybe two days to really feel the hunger, and then a few more days for the "eating is stressful" anxiety to subside. But any child will crack eventually. You might feel worried about them, but it's your worry vs their hunger. Total consistency is the key.

People talk about food being a control issue for a child, and them trying to provoke a reaction, but I think they forget that such conscious thoughts are not what is going through your child's mind. They're not doing it on purpose but it's a subconscious feedback loop which you are enabling - either positively, that not eating gets them control and attention, or negatively, that eating is associated with anxiety and so it's difficult. Break the cycle.

shelivesthedream

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2016, 04:52:29 AM »
OK, wow, this website is amazing. https://www.ellynsatterinstitute.org/htf/howtofeed.php Thank you for the link upthread, whoever it was!

MerryMcQ

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #45 on: October 15, 2016, 11:22:42 AM »
You know, after a certain point of being hungry, your body actually does shut down the hunger sensation. You can also end up vomiting much more easily when you are overly hungry and asked to eat something that might normally make you queasy. An extremely hungry person/child will also frequently have far more temper tantrums and unruly behavior that makes life miserable for the guilty parents trying to starve their kid into eating something gross. Trying to starve a picky eater into eating isn't very good advice.

I was-and am-a picky eater. I had huge struggles with food until I was old enough to cook for myself (starting in 2nd grade). I don't like spices, I don't like certain textures, I have an extremely sensitive gag reflex, and I have the most sensitive sense of smell of anyone I know.

I have a son who is even more picky than I am...

Our solution - my husband and daughter plan meals. If my son and I don't like the food, we may serve ourselves yogurt, fresh fruit, and fresh veggies. My son mixes rice crispies into his yogurt to help with texture issues. No one is allowed to say "yuck" or make faces at anything someone else cooks. There are times where we excuse ourselves from the table if the smell is too off-putting. My son has learned to be very polite when dining at others homes and to graciously say "no thank you" to food (he often states he is not hungry to avoid hurting a host's feelings). My son plans meals and cooks them for the family as well.

We don't ask him to try anything he doesn't want. We don't place food on his plate (or mine) unless he requests it. We eliminated all fighting about food and our meal times are wonderfully relaxing. We always thank the cook for their effort regardless of if we eat the food or not.

We've also had discussions prior to events where food would be an issue. For example, my son went on a 4 day backpacking trip with scouts, and he only could plan 1 meal. Before he was allowed to sign up, he had to show he understood why food, as fuel, was important when you were doing strenuous activity, and promise to eat the food that others planned. He made a conscious decision to eat food he would never touch otherwise, and he was very proud of himself after the trip. I think having removed the power struggle from eating at home made him able to feel in control of his food decisions.

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #46 on: October 15, 2016, 09:27:05 PM »
My son used to eat everything, and then I swear, one night a switch flipped in his brain and he was picky. He's 2 and we've been dealing with it for almost a year. He would eat well at breakfast and lunch, then flat-out refuse dinner or eat only a bite or two. About 2 months ago he went probably a week without dinner by choice.

I remember reading that kids are hungriest and eat their best meal of the day at breakfast time. So, I decided I was going to be serving dinner food at breakfast. Guess what? It worked. It hasn't completely solved the problem, since he will still sometimes eat just a bite or two and be done, but he has never once refused all food at breakfast. Lately he has been doing really well and eating almost as much as he used to at dinner in the good ol' days. He has tried a ton of new foods too, so it's really nice to have more foods that I can be reasonably certain he'll eat. I make food we like and definitely don't cater to him, though I try to pick a meal we all like at least once a week.

I also put food on a regular (adult) plate and get regular utensils. I'll pretend that the food is for me and then let him "steal" the plate and fork. He has long since seen through this ruse, but he loooves to take my food and he REALLY loves using the adult utensils. I typically put 3-4 different foods on the plate so he has options. He has tried way more foods using this method, and the thing is, once he tries a food, he usually likes it. Getting to the point of tasting it is the hurdle we have to get over - it is 100% true that it can take presenting a food 10-15 times til they try it. I also listen to him when he says he is "all done" and take the food away, even if he only had 2 bites. I've become good at making meals drama-free. I used to get really angry when he would reject food I made b/c I worked so hard to make it. It was completely counter-productive. took me a while to get past that.

Another thing I think helps is no snacking in between meals, though I do give one after he wakes up from his nap, a good 3 hrs before dinner. I'm firm on mealtimes too. All meals and snacks are eaten at the table. I never understood how parents could give their kids so many snacks until I saw that other people don't insist on all meals at the table. I too interested in having a clean house to allow my kid to roam while eating :)

One last thing - I don't give milk until after my son is done eating. He was filling up on milk when he didn't want any of the food I gave him. This has definitely helped!

nobody123

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2016, 10:57:56 AM »
Our pediatrician says they'll eat if they're hungry...

Just a cautionary tale that I've seen this prove untrue with several kids. But, when our pediatrician pointed us to the gut bacteria piece, we saw profound, fast results—i.e., all "behavioural" issues, including "picky eating," suddenly resolved in all of the kids involved in the group.

It's a bit funny that the first result on Google begins with:

"Preface:  Much of this article on the connection between picky eating and gut bacteria is based on observation by health practitioners rather than hard scientific research."

I skimmed a handful of articles.  So, it turns out if you give your kids a bunch of crap to eat, they want to eat crap because their bodies and taste buds get used to it.  Same concept gets brought up in obesity studies in poor areas, where kids get "hooked" on the taste / texture of processed convenience foods because it's all that they are exposed to due to socioeconomic circumstances.

I think I see behavioral differences in my kids depending on what we're eating.  Healthy, home cooked meals usually coincide with better behavior, but those also coincide with us having the time to cook, so we're less stressed out in general, so I can't say it's 100% true.  However, when our refrigerator died last summer and we had to eat out for 5 days while we waited for a repair part, my wife and I were ready to disown the kids.

little_brown_dog

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2016, 11:45:10 AM »
I used to nanny many little kids from different families and now parent a toddler. In my experience, kids will absolutely 100% hold out for the junk food if they KNOW it is coming eventually. So the worst thing you can do is serve dinner, fight about it, and then cave and give them their desired food. Do this even just a handful of times and they learn that as long as they hold out long enough, they will get their preferred meal.
The only way to fix this as others have mentioned is to stop this cycle immediately. It probably doesn’t matter whether or not you do it hardcore (ex: send them to bed hungry and stick to it) or more laid back (offer them a healthy snack of your choosing after they have refused dinner). The key is to break the habit of allowing the child to control meals and using refusals and tantrums to reinforce that control. Some parents found it really helpful to designate 1 night a week for the special food…that way the child could plan on it and viewed the absence of the food on other nights as normal and expected. It also makes it seem like less of a power struggle - its not that the parents are REFUSING the desired food, it's just not the right night for that food.

Some language I used to use with a kiddo who often refused anything but chicken nuggets:
“I don’t want this, I want nuggets”
“Tomorrow night is nugget night remember? Not tonight. Tonight is fish night.”
“I don’t care, I want nuggets”
“I’m sorry you can’t have nuggets tonight because tomorrow night is nugget night. Eat your fish”
“I won’t” (usually the tantrum starts about here, or the kid shuts down and refuses for rest of meal)
“Okay, but there are no nuggets tonight.”

At the end of the meal, there is the final question “are you going to eat some now or do you want me to save it in case you are hungry before bed?” If the child refuses to eat in any way shape or form, the food was calmly wrapped up and put away for later. 9 times out of 10 the kid asks for the food within 2 hours of dinner ending. At that point you simply can choose to only offer the leftovers, or you can offer a choice between the leftovers or another snack of your choosing (yogurt, etc). Never offer the desired food or something too similar, or you will completely undo all progress.

« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 11:47:38 AM by little_brown_dog »

LiveLean

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Re: my son only likes corn dogs
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2016, 01:55:27 PM »
I have a cousin with two sons, now in their 20s.

Son No.1 is 6-foot-4, 220. Has eaten everything his entire life and is built like a linebacker.

Son No.2, from a young age, refused to eat anything (translation: was allowed to follow a diet) consisting of sugary cereal, cheese pizza, french fries, and Pepsi. That continues to be literally his entire diet. He is now in his mid-20s and is 5-foot-10, 145 pounds and scrawny. But he's healthy (at least for now), happy and successful. It will be interesting to see how he ages.

I've heard the sportscaster Al Michaels say he has not eaten a vegetable since he was 10. He's 71 and still going strong.

So who knows?

 

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