Mustachian babysitting?

[drobots]

My neighbors left for the evening around 7:30 to have dinner out together while leaving their 2 year old at home with a babysitter.  I was simultaneously jealous and disdainful since it's such a non-mustachian thing to do.  I have an 11 month old now and she starts her downward spiral to whinyness and bedtime around 7:30, which pretty much means we're on house arrest after that time.  So, a couple questions:

1) Does anyone have tips on mustachian-approved babysitting methods? We have no family close to us so that's out.

2) Is there a way to go over to a friend's house for dinner, with the baby, then hang out until 10? We've tried that a few months ago and couldn't really get the baby to sleep, then had to wake her up to get in an out of the car, then it messed up the rest of her night and we were not happy campers.  Is the only solution to all sleep over the friend's house?

Basically I'm craving some adult time with my wife and friends and wondering how to do it without dropping $100 for a couple hours.  Thanks for any tips!

[southern granny]

Are there any couples with children that you could swap baby sitting time with?  :You watch mine this weekend and I will watch yours next weekend?"  but $100 for a couple of hours....  how much do babysitters make where you live.  $8 an hour is about the going rate around here.

[drobots]

Going rate is $12-15 around here, and I have friends and neighbors that pay more!  The $100 also counted the cost of food when out, so ~3 hours babysitting + dinner = $100.  If we could cut out the babysitting cost and go to a BYO place and just share an appetizer (and have a real dinner at home before or after), that would be awesome.

But even if we did find a family to do a babysitting swap, what do we do with the kids after 7:30ish?  Staying up late isn't really an option for this particular 11 month old who goes into full scale meltdown by 8 at the latest. I feel cruel having her fall asleep at someone's house then waking her up to strap her into a car seat for the ride home, then again to get her to bed.  Should we just get over it? It this what other parents do?  No idea here really, we're new at this!

[mm1970]

Babysitting swaps.  When our first child was about 11 months to 2 years, we did this a lot (then my friends all had second babies and they stopped).

There are a couple of ways to do it.  Of course the *easiest* for the babysittER is to drop your kid at their house, but then you have the bedtime thing.

The alternate is to have the babysitter to your house.  I admit, when we did it, we dropped our kids at their houses (and vice versa), and we just sucked up the bad night of sleep.

But with my second child (we haven't really gotten dates at all, only 3 this year), our baby parent-friends are doing the opposite.  So that means you go to their house.

So think of it: there are two of you.  Your or your wife would go to the other person's house to babysit, the other stays home with your kid.  And vice versa.

I also have other adult friends who will occasionally babysit (grandma's, coworkers, friends) for free.

[drobots]

Okay got it. So to make it easy to do these swaps you sacrifice one evening with your significant other at home to buy yourself one later.  Makes sense.  Thanks!

[1967mama]

When ours were young, we did babysitting swaps with friends, but in the daytime. Then there was no concern for meltdowns, messing up sleep, etc. Also, the mom of the couple doing the babysitting would come over to OUR house, while the dad of the couple stayed home with his own kid/kids.

We would do the same for them the next month. I went over to their house for a couple of hours and stayed with their kids while my husband was at home with our own kids.

If either of us had a relatively new baby, we would take our own baby with us to the babysitting gig.

With a newborn, I just preferred to keep the baby with me on the date -- they are relatively easy to cart around at that age.

[ASquared]

Going rate in my area is $15/hr.  Yikes right?!

I vote for finding a family (or more than one) that meshes well with yours. Similarly aged children. Similar parenting styles (very important when you leave your child!!).  This has been a lifesaver for our family. We often trade hours for date nights or for getting some time for errands or yoga or whatever solo. (I mostly stay home). It's amazing - when I watch the other baby as well, it's really not much extra "work". The kids love it. And I don't feel the slightest bit bad about leaving my baby to go out - because she's having a great time with her friend!

To minimize issues - suggest finding someone that feeds their child similarly and parents/disciplines the same way you do. If you feed your child made from scratch organic food, leaving them at their friend's house to eat mac & cheese out of a box is just going to stress you out.

Additionally - yes we have been able to go to friend's homes with baby. I just let her wear herself out and when she's tired she sleeps. Often she sleeps on me, or I'm able to move her to a bed or floor etc as appropriate.

Parenting is hard stuff. Having good family social contacts is really important. Cultivate this.

Edited - also second the day-dates. Brunch date, hiking date, etc if night time is difficult

[couponvan]

We did swaps with another family, but the kids started off together in their PJ's at the babysitter's house.  At bedtime the babysitter (usually me) took the kids back to their house and put them to bed.  Parental "curfew" was 11pm....so 5 hours of babysitting every other week. Frankly I loved getting the extra 2.5 hours at someone else's house where there were no chores waiting for me!  We had kids of similar ages (play group friends) so this worked well for years.  We saved a lot if money that way and our kids loved being with their friends every weekend too!

[bogart]

It will sound trite now (and for good reason), but -- this too will pass.  I won't say quickly, because -- no.  But looking back at this period when your LO is in second grade (as mine is now), it will be only a distant memory.

I'm 72.5% sure my kid was a good sleeper, including at that age (see?  distant memory); have you tried letting yours fall asleep in the car seat (assuming you have the kind that you can cart indoors, with a handle) and does that improve matters, in terms of being-at-a-friend's-after-bedtime and getting home?  Or would she fall (and stay) asleep on one of you in a carrier while you're at your friend's home enjoying your evening?  Do you have any friends who live close enough that you could trundle over and back with her in a stroller she could/would fall asleep in?

Does she nap?  Even if you can't go out, could you and your DW enjoy a Netflix movie (or half a Netflix movie) one afternoon while she's sleeping?

I will say looking back that if there is one thing I wish I had done differently when my LO was littler, it's spend more money on childcare -- and we have 2 separate households of adult family in our area who provided free childcare, so were (already) way better situated than you were.  FWIW.  I know FIRE is the driving principle behind Mustachian, but there are times, and aspects, of qualtiy of life in the present that matter too.

[mamagoose]

Going rate is $12-15 around here, and I have friends and neighbors that pay more!  The $100 also counted the cost of food when out, so ~3 hours babysitting + dinner = $100.  If we could cut out the babysitting cost and go to a BYO place and just share an appetizer (and have a real dinner at home before or after), that would be awesome.

But even if we did find a family to do a babysitting swap, what do we do with the kids after 7:30ish?  Staying up late isn't really an option for this particular 11 month old who goes into full scale meltdown by 8 at the latest. I feel cruel having her fall asleep at someone's house then waking her up to strap her into a car seat for the ride home, then again to get her to bed.  Should we just get over it? It this what other parents do?  No idea here really, we're new at this!

Yes, you should just get over it lol when we go to friends houses or family dinners, we bring the pack and play and show up with our 16 month old in her jammies. She's usually asleep by 6:30, we do the exact same bedtime routine that we do at home (nurse, sing her the Barney song, and she has her lovey and blankie) and she sleeps in her P&P in a back room. Then we hang out for a few hours, and when it's time to go home (we get tired around 9), we pick her up and pack the car up, she's a little drowsy and says bye to her friends/family, then she kinda zones out on the car ride home, and when we get back home we nurse again in her room and she sleeps in her crib for the night.

I'll add that sleep training made her an AMAZING A+ sleeper, and I have zero complaints about her sleeping, even with an early bedtime. Doing the same exact routine every night has made it easy to take her to parties / movie nights with friends b/c as long as she has those creature comforts, she's easy.

And yes, babysitting swap is the way to go if you can find friends that will agree to it, maybe you offer to sit first in case they're timid.

[LiveLean]

Partial thread hijack, but what age is appropriate to stop hiring babysitters?

We got tired of paying $10/hour (a bargain apparently in Florida) to have high school and college girls sit on our couch and text all night, especially since our guys were very good about going to bed early, even on weekends.

Once our oldest turned 11, it dawned on me that when  I was 11 (and my sisters 9 and 4), my parents stopped hiring babysitters. With our boys 11 and 9 a few months ago, we stopped with the babysitters (unless we'll be gone all night.) There's caller-ID on the phones and we have cell phones -- unlike a generation ago - and our guys know not to answer the door. Plus they get along well.

I guess all kids are different, but this seemed like the right time for us to cut the babysitter line item from the budget.

[HP]

Partial thread hijack, but what age is appropriate to stop hiring babysitters?

We got tired of paying $10/hour (a bargain apparently in Florida) to have high school and college girls sit on our couch and text all night, especially since our guys were very good about going to bed early, even on weekends.

Once our oldest turned 11, it dawned on me that when  I was 11 (and my sisters 9 and 4), my parents stopped hiring babysitters. With our boys 11 and 9 a few months ago, we stopped with the babysitters (unless we'll be gone all night.) There's caller-ID on the phones and we have cell phones -- unlike a generation ago - and our guys know not to answer the door. Plus they get along well.

I guess all kids are different, but this seemed like the right time for us to cut the babysitter line item from the budget.

You'll want to check your state law concerning how old your child has to be to be left unattended. I believe it's 12 here, but it varies state to state, and I'm not sure  how it works if the oldest is of age, but the other aren't.

[1967mama]

Partial thread hijack, but what age is appropriate to stop hiring babysitters?

After checking with your local laws, a good guideline I was told is:

Age 10-you can stay by yourself
Age 11-you can babysit your own siblings
Age 12-you can babysit for other families

Of course, maturity and situational issues come into play. I put all my kids through "The Babysitting Course" at the local community centre -- even the boys. Its not required by law but I find they pick up plenty of good tips and know what to do in case of danger.

[LadyStache]

2) Is there a way to go over to a friend's house for dinner, with the baby, then hang out until 10? We've tried that a few months ago and couldn't really get the baby to sleep, then had to wake her up to get in an out of the car, then it messed up the rest of her night and we were not happy campers.  Is the only solution to all sleep over the friend's house?

How about inviting the friend over to your house for dinner? Then the baby can sleep in her own crib and you won't have to wake her up to get in and out of the car.

[DMoney]

Hi, there,
We have three little ones.  I think you've gotten some good tips.  here are a few others.

Who says dates have to be in the evening?  If we're paying someone, then we want our money's worth.  Sitting on the couch for 2 hours after the baby's asleep is not worth that much money to me, and I still have to get up early the next day - so not so excited to stay out and up late!

So sometimes we'll hire someone for a few hours in the morning, then do a crossfit class + brunch together. 

This past week we had 3 families over.  At 4:30pm.  I made a bunch of from scratch pizza.  Kids played, had a blast.  Adults, too.  Everyone was gone by 8pm.

We've gotten the trade-babysitting thing to work a few times, but mostly just when we had one kid.  We would take him with his PJs so he could have a bath with the hosting family's kid.  Again, go to dinner early.  Like 5pm, so, you're picking up your bathed/PJ'ed kid as he's falling asleep.  Then hope for an easy transfer from car to crib.

Sometimes we do "day dates' during the work week.  We both work so kids are in daycare.  We can take a half day and get a few hours together, at no additional cost in terms of child care.

It's tough finding time with spouse with little ones.  Frankly, we just budget it in.  We try to have at least one date a month.  Money well spent, IMHO.

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

We just sometimes suck it up and pay. Maybe once a month or every other month. This month, for instance, we're going to a concert. If we just want to go walk around downtown and poke in bookstores and stuff, then we try to go early--the ideal is to go out during the dinner-and-bedtime hours and come home not too long after they're asleep.

We had success putting a baby/toddler to sleep at a friend's house, but our kids were reasonably good sleepers. At this age, it's easier to have people over to YOUR house, if those friends happen to be childless or have kids who are older.

This is about as hard as it gets. Another couple of years, and the kid can watch a movie in the living room while you finish your meal (as my two- and three-year-olds did last week).

And don't discount the at-home date.  Bottle of wine, cheese plate, your best PJs...

[ASquared]

We have really benefitted from trading with friends. If you have a good setup for this it's a great option. Personally - cheaping out on babysitters is not worth it to me. You're paying for someone to care for your precious child/children...people do bad things...I want our babysitter to feel appreciated, devote her full time to my child, etc.

[KCM5]

More moustacian babysitting tips: form a babysitting cooperative. We use a website (sittingaround.com) to facilitate our points exchange, and trade sitting. It's also a great way to form a community with other families. And no guilt that you're over-using the system because there are the points traded.

[Petuniajo]

More moustacian babysitting tips: form a babysitting cooperative. We use a website (sittingaround.com) to facilitate our points exchange, and trade sitting. It's also a great way to form a community with other families. And no guilt that you're over-using the system because there are the points traded.

I know this is a pretty old thread, but building on the above comment, we've formed a less formal "Parent Co-Op" with other families who our children are friends with (so this works better for toddler and up). We have 4 families in the co-op and we take turns babysitting on the first Saturday evening of every month. The other three sets of parents get to go out and have fun, and the parents on duty that night actually usually have a good time too because all the kids are too busy playing with each other to need much hands-on parenting :)

[meerkat]

How does this work with multiple/mixed age children? We're friends with a couple other families who have babies the same age as my baby, but they also each have an older sibling four years older. The two families work well together (each family has 2 kids so the 5 year olds play together and the one year olds play together) but if we wanted to do a coop with them the older sibling would kind of be the odd man out. (We also are friends with another family that has one child the same age as ours, I'm just curious if anyone has experience with mixed ages.)

[KCM5]

How does this work with multiple/mixed age children? We're friends with a couple other families who have babies the same age as my baby, but they also each have an older sibling four years older. The two families work well together (each family has 2 kids so the 5 year olds play together and the one year olds play together) but if we wanted to do a coop with them the older sibling would kind of be the odd man out. (We also are friends with another family that has one child the same age as ours, I'm just curious if anyone has experience with mixed ages.)

Our oldest kids are about the same age, but many of them have younger siblings now. It's really not a problem. Some older kids like playing with the younger kids and some don't. If they don't they're generally able to entertain themselves with minimal input. If I were bringing my child to a house with only younger kids I would bring something for her to do.

[goatmom]

When I was in a babysitting coop - it was by hours and the number of kids did not factor in.  It worked out.  I guess unless you have a family like the Duggars join your coop.  LOL.

[Venturing]

We invite friends over for brunch. Works really well.

Don't have to worry about taking dd to non child friendly homes, she can sleep when she needs to, she's still In a pretty good mood at that time of day etc. a million times easier than evenings. .

Far cheaper than eating out. We always have the brunch at our place for convenience but our friends offered to share the cooking so sometimes we look after the food and cooking and sometimes they do.

[Aelias]

Something we've done that hasn't come up here yet--bartering for babysitting.

We have a good babysitter that we've paid plenty of times, but sometimes, we've been able to offer her services or other goods instead.  For example, she lived in a crappy apartment with an even crappier landlord.  So my husband would sometimes go over and do basic repairs in exchange for free babysitting.  We've also given her clothes, furniture, and other stuff we didn't need for  free babysitting.  It's been a win-win all the way around.

[Cognitive Miser]

Before I had kids, I used to babysit for my best friend.  In my mid thirties.  They'd leave me a $20 bill and a stack of takeout menus from their neighborhood, and be gone for hours.  Since it was my close friend, I didn't mind getting the shaft on the "going hourly rate."  I was just happy to have my dinner covered!  And actually I learned how to take care of a toddler and change a diaper, skills which came in handy a couple of years later.

So if you have some childless friends looking for "practice"... see what they think!

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

Before I had kids, I used to babysit for my best friend.  In my mid thirties.  They'd leave me a $20 bill and a stack of takeout menus from their neighborhood, and be gone for hours.  Since it was my close friend, I didn't mind getting the shaft on the "going hourly rate."  I was just happy to have my dinner covered!  And actually I learned how to take care of a toddler and change a diaper, skills which came in handy a couple of years later.

So if you have some childless friends looking for "practice"... see what they think!

I had a single friend who used to "babysit" for me. Either she would come over, say hi to the babies, and then I would put them to sleep and she would just hold down the fort, or she would watch them in the play area at the mall while I got my hair cut.

I don't remember what, if anything, I gave her at my house. I bought her a Blizzard at Dairy Queen the second time.

[Beriberi]

I had acquaintances that had an interesting set up (I was jealous - we didn't have the kind of friends where this would have worked).

Three families.  Every third Sunday they had an afternoon playdate/meal. 

Week 1 - Parents of Family 1 & 2, all the kids.
Week 4 - Parents of Family 2 & 3, all the kids
Week 7 - Parents of Family 3 & 1, all the kids
Week 10 - repeat week 1.

I think they did it from 2p-7p - no bedtimes to deal with.
Each family got to have dinner with other people they enjoyed (and a lot of kids), and got a evening alone every third time.

It seemed pretty brilliant.

[Cognitive Miser]

she would watch them in the play area at the mall while I got my hair cut.

Oh, we did a version of this one too!  I would hold her baby while she tried on new clothes for work.  It was fun because I got to spend time my friend, and she got some shopping done that would have been impossible otherwise - along with opinions on new outfits from a trusted friend.  And I got lots of compliments on "my" adorable son.

So I guess the "single friend" service is good for more than date night!

[abhe8]

Op, what is your hourly pay? I've done the babysitting swap deal before and it's great when you are long on time and short on cash flow. But now that my income is much higher then that of a babysitter, I'm not too bothered to just pay. We go out about once a month. Our neighbors love to be with our kids and are very thankful for the money. It's a win all around.

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

Op, what is your hourly pay? I've done the babysitting swap deal before and it's great when you are long on time and short on cash flow. But now that my income is much higher then that of a babysitter, I'm not too bothered to just pay. We go out about once a month. Our neighbors love to be with our kids and are very thankful for the money. It's a win all around.

I pay $15/hour.

[KisKis]

Our kid swaps really only started this past year (Kids ages 7 and 4).  We have a couple families we see often at activities, and our kids will randomly decide they want to sleepover at one house or the other.  In the summertime, it worked out to about a night off every two weeks.  I also have some other friends who are good for daytime drop offs for a couple hours at a time.  We, of course, are happy to provide the same for them.  Having a good community support base really helps with everyone's mental stability.   

[pancakes]

When I was a child my parents belonged to a community group that time swapped babysitting duties.

The group seemed pretty big and they took turns managing the bookkeeping. I'm pretty sure it grew out of a nursing mothers group.

Basically for every hour you babysat you banked an hour of babysitting for yourself, much like the points systems described. The group was big enough that there was typically no problems finding someone for a chosen night.

This was all done before the Internet. I image it would be much easier to coordinate now.

[cloudsail]

There's a drop off childcare chain where I live called KidsPark. It's a little cheaper than hiring a babysitter and there's lots of new toys and activities so the kids love it there. But it only works for slightly older children and there's going to be a bunch of other kids around so increased chance of catching disease. My husband and I use it when we want to catch a movie or something. I would Google drop in childcare and see what comes up.

For things like concerts that run late we bite the bullet and hire the babysitter. We were recently at a Coldplay concert and paid for 6 hours of babysitting at $13. That's another concert ticket right there.

[MaryByrne]

I'm not sure if this was already suggested but maybe you could share the neighbor's babysitter? Could  you arrange with those neighbors to find a high-quality responsible person to babysit and then you share the cost and have one of your kids go to the others house and be babysat at the same time? Same issue with waking up while moving back to your house but switching off which house they stay at would be fair.