The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Mini Money Mustaches => Topic started by: soccerluvof4 on February 24, 2014, 08:58:56 AM
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I just wanted to see if there was interest in starting a thread/forum for the larger families to compare what is or not working. I dont see alot of post on the forums in this regards. So I will start with a simple description of my family and touch on a few thoughts/ideas. Hopefully for the larger families we can come up with ideas to all work in the same direction.
I am 49 and my wife is 45. We have a 15, 14, 10, 8 year old children. I am in ER but my wife is still working for a business I started 22 years ago about 25-30 hrs a week 100% by her doing. She wants to do this and it helps cover the expenses of a larger family in an area of Higher cost real-estate, stupid taxes and Frigid temperatures. Our family is very Active and barely are we home any night of the week. 4 kids in select soccer so we are always traveling around the country. The business covers alot of our traveling costs and also we have no car expenses. Health insurance is stupid though costing us about 2k a month.
We are well on our way to FI but I am much more the one thinking about "tomorrow" than my wife though she is coming around. I should mention our house is paid for and we have a second home we have been trying to sell for 2 years now. This summer we are going to price to sell. The money we are losing by not putting it to work plus the maintenance would be a huge turn around in out net worth.
Since are house is larger as some call a mini mansion we plan in 4 years either moving into a small ranch to cut all of our utility costs, property taxes (currently 9300$ a year) or just flat out moving to a more MM lifestyle/area. This would leave us with 2 kids to get through school yet and 2 off to College. It seem like everyday I think/obsess about trying to save for total FI or Kids college and all the what if's scenarios. In the last 4-6 weeks i have shaved off at least 1k a month in expenses by following alot of the MM ways but want to do more. In addition since i took over the grocery shopping have cut our groceries in half by simply buying bulk at Sams Club and rest at Aldis. I am having fun finding new ways to save. My goal for this first year is to try to make as many changes as possible without it affecting the family and slowly teaching/changing there ways since I don't have to drop the gauntlet on them as were doing fine otherwise. I like to pick my battles.
Again, once we sell our secondary property that will be a huge release and give me more opportunities for there college as well as adding to our FI. I guess so for the next 4-5 years till we totally retire we are in more of a compromise stage and there are somethings we just cant do without but others obviously we just dont need. For example i cut 100$ of our cable/internet bill and its effected no one. I got knocked 110$ of our gym bill by going from a tennis club/gym to a franchise. Again no affect to anyone.
So I am just reaching out to Larger Families with active kids in sports to just see what clever things people are doing to keep finding ways to live the MM way with some compromise. I hope this forum really pops because I know there are alot of us out there and I see so many of my friends with families that dont have a dime and live paycheck to paycheck.
Thanks In advance
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I'm interested. Our kids are 20, 18, 15, 13, 8, & 6. Oldest did volleyball and is playing on scholarship at a D1 school. 18 year old has football offers, but will defer and first serve a church mission. Next two do skiing, golf, music, more academically motivated. Little kids are starting piano, soccer and swimming. It's kind of a wild life, but we love it!
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I'm interested. Our kids are 20, 18, 15, 13, 8, & 6. Oldest did volleyball and is playing on scholarship at a D1 school. 18 year old has football offers, but will defer and first serve a church mission. Next two do skiing, golf, music, more academically motivated. Little kids are starting piano, soccer and swimming. It's kind of a wild life, but we love it!
WOW! haha. I thought we had our hands full! Congrats on your Oldest get a D1 Scholarship and thats awesome about your 18 year old. Can you share your thoughts with paying for college or what you are doing and maybe decisions as to how it pertains to your own FI. Things you have found to work for you guys etc... Sounds like you are super active!
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WOW! haha. I thought we had our hands full! Congrats on your Oldest get a D1 Scholarship and thats awesome about your 18 year old. Can you share your thoughts with paying for college or what you are doing and maybe decisions as to how it pertains to your own FI. Things you have found to work for you guys etc... Sounds like you are super active!
Our feeling about responsibilities toward our children...
We believe in providing: basic needs- clean, well fed, protected; encouraging talents- we will support one sport and one music/art lesson at a time; opportunities to serve and become decent human beings- they are active in our church and do service projects and learn morals and values. College is not something we feel obligated to provide, and our kids know this. We do value education, and because of that, I will help my kids obtain one if they are doing all they can. I think they should try to get all the scholarships, AP credits, concurrent enrollment that they can. If they need help beyond this, we can step in. But I expect them to have a part-time job and learn to manage their time and school work. We live in a low-moderate COL western state with good options for state Universities. Most kids around here pay their own way, which I think teaches some invaluable lessons. However, I hate debt and if my kid is doing all they can, I will make sure that they don't have to have student loans for their Bachelor's. That might mean that they live at home and attend the University 20 miles away. Or they could live with Grandma and attend their parent's Alma Mater. I don't think that dorm life is something that I am obligated to provide.
In general, we are aiming for FI, not exactly ER. I am just getting ready to apply for graduate school in a field I am very interested to work in for the next couple decades. What may change when I am working is that we may move to the west coast or Hawaii, since we don't love the winter. But who knows? We live in a good area and if we can escape to the warmth once or twice in the winter, that might be as good.
Other things we do to save as a family. DIY haircuts, cut out satellite, meal plan- huge savings here, shop at Costco, have a family membership to local community center for $350/yr for all 8 of us, switching to Airvoice from AT&T, drive 2006 Honda Odyssey when we need to transport all of us, Toyota Prius when we don't, try to thrift shop for clothing, household goods. It's definitely harder to cut back as far as a family of four can do. We could technically live in a 4 bedroom house, but feel more comfortable in our 6 bedroom. We do our best and are trying to teach our kids the value of saving and not buying everything "everyone" else has.
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Our feelings about things seem pretty parallel. We have a 4 bedroom house (2 story with finished basement) so with 4 kids i built a bedroom in basement for the oldest since basement is finished and has bathroom. This way he doesn't stir up trouble with the youngest :-). We use Sams and Aldis over Costco and do DIY haircuts as well. Toyota over Honda and with school I should be between 2-3 years per kid for the 2 oldest at entry time. They should also get money for grades/sports as well but I dont want to bank on any of that. 2 youngest we are way ahead on.
I am sure your with me its a laugh er when a person with one or 2 kids complains about how rough they have it! haha. And you get the " I dont know how you guys do it". I couldn't imagine it having it any other way. I would of liked to had 5 or 6 but we were getting older and have 4 healthy kids we figured we were blessed. Anyhow thanks for sharing and as I said seems we are pretty similar in our principals.
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I don't consider us a "large" family at three kids (8, 9, 12), but I did want four, so does that count? I'm not great at multitasking, though, so I finally had to accept my own limitations (took me five years to give up on the fourth).
I also think people who have one kid and complain how hard it is have no idea (other than babies--one baby can take over your life). I'm a little more sympathetic to those who have two, because those two can interact with each other and have opposing opinions, so adding one kid way more than doubles the potential chaos in the household. But still, it's nothing like having three or more.
We limit the activities our kids are in. I think this is a wise move, regardless of the number of kids one has, because I think our kids are over-scheduled and over-stimulted and over-structured. That said, I do occasionally feel guilty because we run in circles where kids are given every opportunity and though I don't really buy into it, I can find myself swayed by it at times. Like when I imagine my kids' college entrance applications or scholarship applications--they're going to be kind of light when it comes to activities and trophies.
But honestly, I'd rather pay for college through a combination of our savings, their work, and a few loans than build a life around trying to get scholarships.
We have a four-bedroom house, son and daughter (8 and 9) are currently sharing a room (their choice, daughter had own room and moved in with son). But son is starting to make noises about wanting his own space, which I think is appropriate at his age. Though I'm not exactly sure what he means about wanting his own space since he is actually in my bed most nights. I'm the one who wants her own space! :-)
I conceptually am for kids sharing bedrooms, but when I look at the personalities of my own two sons--they could not be more different and honestly, it would be hell for the older one (introverted, studious) to share with the younger one (wild, self-centered, likes to push buttons, doesn't respect boundaries).
Hats off to all of you--I know it's not easy! I have mixed feelings about being told, "I couldn't do what you do," or "you're a better woman then I am" because even though it is often meant to be admiring, it sometimes feels like there are undertones of something else. Of course you could do it, you just do it. Are you suggesting you were smart enough not to try it?
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Between my wife and I we have 5. Only 3 live with us full time but mine do stay about 6-7 weeks throughout the year. We have a 2 story with finished basement, 2.5 bathrooms. Ages are 18, 13, 12, 10, 7.
The 18 yo is going to a state college this fall. We have explained to her that we basically cannot pay for anything. We will try but I have 58k in student loans I am still paying on. My associates degree got me my current job but I thought a bachelors would get me a better job. So far no and that was 8 years ago.
We have a suburban, not mustachian but I can't stand minivans. Plus we like to camp and make other trips with all of us so this vehicle fits our needs. My wife drives a 1996 toyota camry and daughter drives a 2001 saturn (piece of junk but it runs). The cars are paid for but we owe 10,400 on suburban.
We are new to MMM and still learning and applying daily. My wife is on board and helps a lot. We have a tank less electric water heater. I had this before I got remarried but since finding MMM I have determined that for a larger household this thing is not a good idea.
My wife shops at Aldis and whatever she cannot get there she gets at walmart. We don't have a Sam's club membership and not sure we would buy enough in bulk to make it worth the yearly cost (convince me otherwise?). Our grocery/household budget is 140-170 depending on if kids are in school or not. When they are in school we buy them school lunch ($30 for all 3). It's less hassle and planning for us.
The oldest daughter does plays. The 13 yo does football, wrestling, and track. The 7 yo nothing for now.
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Between my wife and I we have 5. Only 3 live with us full time but mine do stay about 6-7 weeks throughout the year. We have a 2 story with finished basement, 2.5 bathrooms. Ages are 18, 13, 12, 10, 7.
The 18 yo is going to a state college this fall. We have explained to her that we basically cannot pay for anything. We will try but I have 58k in student loans I am still paying on. My associates degree got me my current job but I thought a bachelors would get me a better job. So far no and that was 8 years ago.
We have a suburban, not mustachian but I can't stand minivans. Plus we like to camp and make other trips with all of us so this vehicle fits our needs. My wife drives a 1996 toyota camry and daughter drives a 2001 saturn (piece of junk but it runs). The cars are paid for but we owe 10,400 on suburban.
We are new to MMM and still learning and applying daily. My wife is on board and helps a lot. We have a tank less electric water heater. I had this before I got remarried but since finding MMM I have determined that for a larger household this thing is not a good idea.
My wife shops at Aldis and whatever she cannot get there she gets at walmart. We don't have a Sam's club membership and not sure we would buy enough in bulk to make it worth the yearly cost (convince me otherwise?). Our grocery/household budget is 140-170 depending on if kids are in school or not. When they are in school we buy them school lunch ($30 for all 3). It's less hassle and planning for us.
The oldest daughter does plays. The 13 yo does football, wrestling, and track. The 7 yo nothing for now.
We have 2 full and 2 half baths. The one half is in the basement and be nice to have that 3rd shower with the oldest down then but when i did a cost assesment to bust out the concrete and move the water softner/hot water tank it just wasnt feesable and when do you end.
The Sams Club thing took me awhile to figure it out. But its a huge savings and I just got a 412$ check back for the year so 2 free weeks + of groceries. There are just some items my kids eat large amounts of and things like toilet paper, papertowels you just cant beat the price. So I would definately recommend it. We dont get school lunches because my kids would starve and if were packing snacks might as well just pack a lunch.
College with larger familys we seemingly so far on this thread to be on the same path.
I hate Mini Vans as well BUT for kids and carpooling there just isnt anything better. They have really come along ways in the last 5 years and the space blows me away. I try not to drive as I prefer my Highlander :-)
I don't consider us a "large" family at three kids (8, 9, 12), but I did want four, so does that count? I'm not great at multitasking, though, so I finally had to accept my own limitations (took me five years to give up on the fourth).
I also think people who have one kid and complain how hard it is have no idea (other than babies--one baby can take over your life). I'm a little more sympathetic to those who have two, because those two can interact with each other and have opposing opinions, so adding one kid way more than doubles the potential chaos in the household. But still, it's nothing like having three or more.
We limit the activities our kids are in. I think this is a wise move, regardless of the number of kids one has, because I think our kids are over-scheduled and over-stimulted and over-structured. That said, I do occasionally feel guilty because we run in circles where kids are given every opportunity and though I don't really buy into it, I can find myself swayed by it at times. Like when I imagine my kids' college entrance applications or scholarship applications--they're going to be kind of light when it comes to activities and trophies.
But honestly, I'd rather pay for college through a combination of our savings, their work, and a few loans than build a life around trying to get scholarships.
We have a four-bedroom house, son and daughter (8 and 9) are currently sharing a room (their choice, daughter had own room and moved in with son). But son is starting to make noises about wanting his own space, which I think is appropriate at his age. Though I'm not exactly sure what he means about wanting his own space since he is actually in my bed most nights. I'm the one who wants her own space! :-)
I conceptually am for kids sharing bedrooms, but when I look at the personalities of my own two sons--they could not be more different and honestly, it would be hell for the older one (introverted, studious) to share with the younger one (wild, self-centered, likes to push buttons, doesn't respect boundaries).
Hats off to all of you--I know it's not easy! I have mixed feelings about being told, "I couldn't do what you do," or "you're a better woman then I am" because even though it is often meant to be admiring, it sometimes feels like there are undertones of something else. Of course you could do it, you just do it. Are you suggesting you were smart enough not to try it?
Anyone with 3 kids by today's standards i consider a larger family! lol
I also agree especially with the demands of sports today 1 is enough. Fulfill your commitment if you want to try something else then so be it. Thanks to my oldest (snide) all my kids just play soccer so that's the easy part BUT its now year round. Seemed simpler when we were kids you could do everything and through your school and letter in 3-4 sports. We do get enjoyment out of it and alot of our travels become trips so its worth it and I wouldn't change it.
I couldn't agree more with your last sentence about deciding to have a big family but I think there are those that still just have kids because they think there suppose to . I have a friend who treats my kids wonderfully but him and his wife would never have there own. I use to think how selfish but knowing him for so many years I respect his decision whole heartedly because they are such kids themselves and are so OCD they couldn't have kids.
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We have kids in a three bedroom house. I actually think it is good for them to learn to have to get along and share space. And, we are like Gray Matter where usually one ends up in my room anyway!
I buy my boy clothes new now because it became more difficult to find used things in good condition. Usually it is Lands End when they have 30% off everything, or sometimes I get things at Old Navy. Girl stuff is easier to find used, and every so often I will do that, but most often I get new for first daughter and feel it's a good deal if it lasts through two or three.
Activities are the hardest thing to navigate. Having family time is very important to me. Also, I like the idea of going deep in just a few things rather than dabble in many. My kids get piano lessons on pianos that were hand-me-downs. They can do soccer and basketball for now (different seasons), and we are going to be starting mixed martial arts soon because I can have kids 7-13 in the same class. Time efficiency is important! As time goes on, the kids that don't just love soccer and basketball will fizzle out of those.
I agree with Mes. Greenstache about service, and I support my kids doing that. They are eleven and younger, so we haven't had as much of this as I want to do in the future. We all help out at home with chores.
College is something that I don't feel we are responsible for paying the full bill. My kids have the option of going to our state schools for very cheap thanks to their dad's job. I am considering buying a townhome or simple house for them to share while there, because I am assuming that most will choose to go to the main state school since it would be nearly free.
What do you all with older ones do about vehicles for your kids? What are you comfortable providing, and what do you expect them to pay? I am thinking that if my awesome 2003 minivan is still kicking, I will allow my children to drive it when they are old enough and responsible enough. Then I would get myself a slightly newer Odyssey. Then, web they go to college, If they want a car, they can figure it out. I am really curious to hear from you guys that have experience in this area.
Also, what do you do for hotels when traveling? We are getting a condo this summer that has two sleeping areas, but sometimes we are limited in our options.
In regards to the clothes we actually save alot of money because my kids will pretty much where only soccer stuff to school even my high school kid and since I am on the board where the play soccer I get a 30% discount plus we get alot of free stuff from sponsors. For myself I do buy flannel shirts and stuff from GoodWill or find super cheap sales stuff as I dont need much.
The car thing we will be facing soon. My son just took his written test and will in August be doing the driving part. Its a double edge sword because it will help us out alot with all the running around we do everynight and he knows that so we put some rules to qualify in place. First off with boys the insurance goes up so he must have a 3.6 gpa or better or no driving. I stand firm on that plus that holds true to play soccer. School first. As far as time to drive and what to drive as I mentioned earlier when each child was born I got one of those huge water bottles you see like in offices and put change in there. This will be my Auto gift to them. Then the rest they will be responsible for with summer jobs etc.. Granted we will help out when and where we can BUT he wont know that and already knows that. So i just keep telling them we will help with College, we will help with driving but you will be responsible for a large portion of that.
As far as Hotels and traveling for us its never an issue as far as a hotel room because my kids are never at the same place at the same time which is the negative. Usually i go one way , my wife another and the other 2 kids go with other families. Alot of large familys in soccer with same situation so easy to always find people to work together. Even then its a costly challenge. But there have been the few occasions we have all been in a hotel and have two blow up mattress and make it work.
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Not strictly qualified to comment since I only have 2. But I have been a single parent for 15 years so my parent:kid ratio is the same as a 2 parent family with 4 kids. (Oh yeah I'm the only breadwinner too, a million tiny violins….LOL). Hehehe, a friend (2 adults 1 kid) was kind of implying I should be doing more/better/whatever than I was until I pointed out the parent:kid ratio, which stopped him dead in his tracks.
How did I do it? I optimised..everything I did served more than one purpose. I use past tense since they are nearly grown and its much easier than before. Lucky mine weren't very sporty. I did limit their extracurricular activities..2 things each I think.
We don't travel in hotels much, because our family is just the wrong shape! 3 single beds in one room - good grief what a preposterous suggestion. So either pay for 2 rooms (no, no, no, no!) or have some weird rearrangement involving king beds and someone sleeping on the couch or the floor or no room to walk since the whole room is full of beds that are too large.
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When I was growing up (and I'm 25, so this was not that long ago), my hometown had a soccer league run by Parks and Rec. Kids would get dropped off on the municipal soccer field, run around and chase the ball one afternoon a week, and play a game on the weekend against another team from the town. At the time, there was also "travel" soccer, which involved serious training, practices and going to different cities for games, and it's a huge time commitment on the part of parents and children. But this was very low key, very mellow. My mother would usually drop me off to play and go to the library. About 10 years ago, the recreational, no-pressure sports league was eliminated entirely to devote more resources to year-round soccer. I've noticed this a lot--extracurriculars seem to get very serious, very fast.
Most clubs in our area usually now run the Rec department for the city as well and in return for use of field give them some monies. But not in all cases and in some counties alot of battles begin because Soccer has become such a huge sport (now number 1 youth sport in America) Your 25 and I am almost 50 so you can imagine how much of a shock this has all become to me because we would pretty much play everything in one day! Now we have kids that drive an hour to an hour and a half everyday to be part of one club or another. The problem is if your kids love it and want to commit to one sport then if you dont participate in the year round stuff they fall behind. I look at My 15 year old vs my 9 year old and hes twice as far along (the 9 year old) because of whats changed in that short time. Sometimes i feel like a hamster on a wheel but since its the one thing they do it does simplify. My biggest thing is they have to have the grades and I constantly am trying to make sure there still having fun and try to avoid burn out. But this is all sports now. I live in the Artic Midwest and the baseball kids are starting in January indoors. Its just crazy.
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Not strictly qualified to comment since I only have 2. But I have been a single parent for 15 years so my parent:kid ratio is the same as a 2 parent family with 4 kids. (Oh yeah I'm the only breadwinner too, a million tiny violins….LOL). Hehehe, a friend (2 adults 1 kid) was kind of implying I should be doing more/better/whatever than I was until I pointed out the parent:kid ratio, which stopped him dead in his tracks.
How did I do it? I optimised..everything I did served more than one purpose. I use past tense since they are nearly grown and its much easier than before. Lucky mine weren't very sporty. I did limit their extracurricular activities..2 things each I think.
We don't travel in hotels much, because our family is just the wrong shape! 3 single beds in one room - good grief what a preposterous suggestion. So either pay for 2 rooms (no, no, no, no!) or have some weird rearrangement involving king beds and someone sleeping on the couch or the floor or no room to walk since the whole room is full of beds that are too large.
The ratio does qualify! :-) not to mention the experience. I always try to shoot for the two double beds with the pullout couch and bring the single blow up mattress's as the will fit in areas obviously the bigger ones dont. But again its very seldom
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We have three kids under 12, for now. I'm in my young 30's so more is still a possibility. I homeschool too. We stuck it out for 12 years in a 2 bedroom bungalow. We had all three sharing a room for the little one's first 18 months before we moved.
We've never found it particularly difficult to be savers even at our income level. We're more than on-track for hubby's retirement at age 55(he thinks he'll be bored at home any sooner than that). I grew up on the poor side in a Christian family of 7 so my perspective on money and family is a bit counter-cultural. We've never carried any debt besides mortgages and a car payment.
We're living large now. 1500 square feet with 3 bedrooms, a small unfinished basement, shed and three car garage. The kids are still sleeping one bedroom and using the other as a playroom. Last summer, we replaced the old mini-van our in-laws were so generous to give to us with a Highlander and last weekend we just bought a used pop-up camper for trips.
I spend an average of $325 a month for food. We eat Flexitarian. I was shopping and cooking for my parents and four siblings before I was a teenager. After all these years, scratch cooking and ingredient shopping is just a habit now. I spend a good 10 hours a week in the kitchen but I think it's worth it. I enjoy it, the food tastes better and is better for us and it costs less.
My kids were all breast-fed and cloth diapered(some purchased, some homemade). I made most of the baby food they ate during weaning. I used mostly just the clothes I was given for them instead of buying a bunch of stuff in "my style". I've never paid a babysitter. They've never been to professional photographer. I cut their hair. I buy their clothes at the thrift shop and yard sales with new underwear, jeans and pj's at Walmart. Shoes I buy online and they get three pairs: sneakers, snow boots and summer sandals.
We've already fully funded their college accounts. We will pay for two years of community college. Their grandfather has also funded additional accounts for them which should cover at least a year of university.
We do not plan to put them on our car insurance or give them a car or use of the family car unless they can afford to cover the cost incurred. Driving is expensive and not part of the care I feel I am responsible as a parent to provide.
I'm very old-fashioned I guess. :)
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I've posted some of this on various threads, but I'll join in here too.
We have three kids. Plan to have probably one more, possibly two. DW is actually the one lobbying for it, whereas I worry about her. Her pregnancies are pretty smooth but labor is never an easy thing.
Ages are 4, 6, and 7. Oldest two are girls and they're so close in age (15 months) that we often get asked if they're twins. All 3 get along tremendously. I was really worried when we started homeschooling that cabin fever would set in after being inside all winter, but they are champs! I get restless before they do.
Raised the kids pretty conventionally at first. We tried breast feeding/pumping but it really doesn't work with my wife's schedule. If number 4 arrives, I will try cloth diapers and making our own baby food, but formula will be necessary unless we magically FI before then.
We live in a 2 bedroom, 1 bath house. 740 sqft taxable. We plan on staying here until we hit FI and then move out of state, likely to CO or OR. Plan is to put in a bathroom and bedroom in basement. I will likely have to pay a plumber to rough in drains. No idea what that will cost yet but we will get quotes soonish depending on how fast debt repayment goes. Everything else will be DIY with my super handy brother-in-law's help. That would increase our house to 3BR, 2BA, a touch under 1000 sqft, so still quite small for the number of people in it. It's plenty of space for us, though! I just wish we had more of a "homestead" type lot, with 2+ sunny acres for better gardening.
We homeschool, so moving and traveling can be done really any time without a ton of disruption. Kids don't have many friends outside of cousins, but they seem happy that way (both DW and I were extreme introverts growing up and had few friends) and do interact well with kids when they are out and about.
All of the kids were "oops" pregnancies, the first quite young (me 21, DW 22) but we've managed quite well. We're all happy and healthy, and finding the MMM community has made me (and by extension the DW) very optimistic about the future. We lived (barely) within our means but now we're socking away $10-$15K a year despite having a very high debt load. (Almost $2,000 every month goes to mortgage and student loan debt).
Edit: Forgot to add that we're more or less "anti-activity" parents. I do a lot of "field trip" type stuff and in a couple years we'll make a decision regarding our ER timeline and may increase the travel budget to get even more exposure to the kids, but I feel like schools and sports stuff run YOUR lives rather than adding a ton of value. I also hate the increased vehicle/gasoline usage most of that requires.
The only real plan I have is starting them on Tae Kwon Do. I ended just short of my black belt, so I have all the skills, but will teach them Olympic style instead of the South Korean style I learned as a kid. Martial arts are great but in my case they don't need to be taught in a school. I don't care about belts or certificates.
Music will be the one exception, but so far none of them have a ton of skill. Even there, I have the benefit of a mother who's a semi-professional classical singer, pianist, and classical guitarist. We tried in the fall but music lesson didn't quite click. May try again in a few months.
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We have four children, ages 7 down to 8 months, and live in a 900 sq ft 3 bedroom rental house for now. One bathroom and one car. We homeschool the oldest. I make many things: food from scratch, clothing, diapers, furniture.
Three scheduled events per week is about my limit--including church, doctor's appointments, and entertaining. Everyone's saying that now is the time to sign the older two up for summer camp (one week of day camp). I don't even want to think about it.
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We have five kids, aged 9, 7, 5, 3, and 1, with #6 on the way (and due on #5's birthday). I'm 33, my wife turns 31 this year.
Cars:
--2001 Honda Odyssey (we'll sell it and get an 8-passenger van this year)
--1995 Toyota Corolla - now that I have a 3-mile commute, I'm planning on this car being available for the kids when they're old enough to drive in another 7-9 years.
House:
--3400 sq ft (not very mustachian, I know, but we *did* get it for a very good price!)
--4 bedrooms (generously sized),
--2.5 baths (the jack-and-jill bathroom is 8' x 13' - plenty big enough to split into two--it kills me how inefficiently our house is laid out)
--1600sq ft unfinished basement.
All four boys share a bedroom now, and DD has her own room. She's hoping for a baby sister.
Groceries: DW shops at Walmart and ad-matches. Average about $225/week. This includes hot breakfast every morning, and lots of fresh produce in our diet.
My Amazing Wife: Stay-at-home mom. We took the plunge into Homeschooling this year, and she does a fantastic job.
Activities: We allow the kids one extracurricular at a time besides swimming lessons. So that's a theater class for our oldest, gymnastics for DD, and soccer for the 5-year-old. Our oldest also does Cub Scouts with our church.
College: We have no plans to pay for our kids' college education. Our parents did not pay for our college.
Saving money:
--we limit how often we eat out--maybe once or twice per month
--no new phones. My wife's cell phone is a hand-me-down (free!), and mine is an iPhone 3GS. Not only old, but purchased *used*.
--Both of us are on the $10/250 minutes Airvoice plan. When I looked at my actual use, the $50/mo I was paying for Straight Talk didn't make sense.
--Just switched from Vonage to Ooma
--No cable/satellite. Heck, we don't even have a TV. We *do* have a projector, which means never paying $10 for a movie ticket.
--Internet discount--we alternate between the "50% off for 6 months" and "$30/mo for 6 months" discount on AT&T DSL. We call them every six months (as the discount is about to expire) and ask them to switch us to a new discount.
--Thermostat--ours is programmed to 68 during the day and 60 at night (10pm to 5am). Since the furnace is running at a high duty cycle from 5-6am, it has the happy side effect of heating the bedrooms above 68 by the time we wake up.
--The only interest we pay is on our mortgage
--My computer is probably 5 years old, with no plans for replacement.
--Lots of south-facing windows that help tremendously with winter sun.
--At-home birthday parties, only on odd birthdays
--Kids won't have cell phones until they can afford to pay for their own, and maybe not even then.
--My wife hates shopping for clothes, uses little makeup, and finds jewelry a hassle.
--Shopping at Goodwill/Salvation Army/(Deseret Industries when visiting family in Utah)
--We drive to vacation destinations.
--No alcohol
--Take leftovers to work for lunch
--Shovel my own driveway, mow my own lawn
--Fix/maintain my own cars--only pay for tires and alignment
--Buy used on craigslist or Bookoo or eBay.
--Take time with big purchases, and get it right the first time, even if it costs more. Buy once, cry once.
--Birthdays for DW and I are very low-key
--Low-cost entertaining. Game nights with friends, an occasional Murder Mystery.
(One I wish I could do: move to a state with less-insane tax rates. Ugh, I hate Illinois)
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We have five kids, aged 9, 7, 5, 3, and 1, with #6 on the way (and due on #5's birthday). I'm 33, my wife turns 31 this year.
Cars:
--2001 Honda Odyssey (we'll sell it and get an 8-passenger van this year)
--1995 Toyota Corolla - now that I have a 3-mile commute, I'm planning on this car being available for the kids when they're old enough to drive in another 7-9 years.
House:
--3400 sq ft (not very mustachian, I know, but we *did* get it for a very good price!)
--4 bedrooms (generously sized),
--2.5 baths (the jack-and-jill bathroom is 8' x 13' - plenty big enough to split into two--it kills me how inefficiently our house is laid out)
--1600sq ft unfinished basement.
All four boys share a bedroom now, and DD has her own room. She's hoping for a baby sister.
Groceries: DW shops at Walmart and ad-matches. Average about $225/week. This includes hot breakfast every morning, and lots of fresh produce in our diet.
My Amazing Wife: Stay-at-home mom. We took the plunge into Homeschooling this year, and she does a fantastic job.
Activities: We allow the kids one extracurricular at a time besides swimming lessons. So that's a theater class for our oldest, gymnastics for DD, and soccer for the 5-year-old. Our oldest also does Cub Scouts with our church.
College: We have no plans to pay for our kids' college education. Our parents did not pay for our college.
Saving money:
--we limit how often we eat out--maybe once or twice per month
--no new phones. My wife's cell phone is a hand-me-down (free!), and mine is an iPhone 3GS. Not only old, but purchased *used*.
--Both of us are on the $10/250 minutes Airvoice plan. When I looked at my actual use, the $50/mo I was paying for Straight Talk didn't make sense.
--Just switched from Vonage to Ooma
--No cable/satellite. Heck, we don't even have a TV. We *do* have a projector, which means never paying $10 for a movie ticket.
--Internet discount--we alternate between the "50% off for 6 months" and "$30/mo for 6 months" discount on AT&T DSL. We call them every six months (as the discount is about to expire) and ask them to switch us to a new discount.
--Thermostat--ours is programmed to 68 during the day and 60 at night (10pm to 5am). Since the furnace is running at a high duty cycle from 5-6am, it has the happy side effect of heating the bedrooms above 68 by the time we wake up.
--The only interest we pay is on our mortgage
--My computer is probably 5 years old, with no plans for replacement.
--Lots of south-facing windows that help tremendously with winter sun.
--At-home birthday parties, only on odd birthdays
--Kids won't have cell phones until they can afford to pay for their own, and maybe not even then.
--My wife hates shopping for clothes, uses little makeup, and finds jewelry a hassle.
--Shopping at Goodwill/Salvation Army/(Deseret Industries when visiting family in Utah)
--We drive to vacation destinations.
--No alcohol
--Take leftovers to work for lunch
--Shovel my own driveway, mow my own lawn
--Fix/maintain my own cars--only pay for tires and alignment
--Buy used on craigslist or Bookoo or eBay.
--Take time with big purchases, and get it right the first time, even if it costs more. Buy once, cry once.
--Birthdays for DW and I are very low-key
--Low-cost entertaining. Game nights with friends, an occasional Murder Mystery.
(One I wish I could do: move to a state with less-insane tax rates. Ugh, I hate Illinois)
6 kids by 33! WOW. Well it sounds like you guys do an amazing job. I am just North of you and our Property Taxes are killer. I pay 9300 a year. Thats why once the first two are out we are down sizing. I want to move to a much better "tax" friendly state but were so imbedded right now in our community gotta tough it our for awhile.
Definately seems the theme on this thread is all about having a system, usually one activity per and stretching things as far as you can. Some good stuff one here.
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Yay! I'll be joining the ranks soon.
I've got two boys, ages 7 & 2, with #3 on the way this summer. I've been raising my youngest sister though, so we've had three kids for the past five years. She'll be heading off to college about two weeks after the baby gets here.
We don't do any extra curricular activities right now. The youngest is enrolled in a MMO program for $115 per month - I use that time (six hours per week) to work from home. I'll be dropping that this summer, and we'll have a year off of any tuition before we enroll the (then 3 year old) into a montessori preschool (I'm not expecting to work from home with toddler + baby, but who knows). That's the plan any way.
I keep asking my oldest if he'd like to do an activity, but he keeps insisting he doesn't, so I won't push it on him. We do lots of artsy type stuff around here together, and he loves playing video games (ugh) with his dad. His school has a music program starting at 3rd grade, so we may start him on an instrument then.
We drive a 2008 Honda Odyssey, base model that we bought used when #2 was on the way (keep in mind, we also have the teen here, so we were going to be driving 5 people often enough to kinda justify... and now with a third carseat on the way, I'm glad we have it.) I don't drive often - once per week for groceries, twice per week for MMO - which is 2 miles away.
Our house is the perfect size for our family - right at 2250 sf. We have 4br 3ba, but right now one of those bedrooms is a study. Teen has a suite upstairs that will likely be turned into a playroom for a few years. Our study may have to be turned into a bedroom.... not sure yet. Our kids tend to room in with us for at least the first two years.
I imagine our lives will get busier as these kids get older, but right now we lead a pretty chill life. We're homebodies -- not much in the way of activities or travel just yet. We plan to start going to national & state parks when the (unborn) baby gets to be around 2 or 3. That gives us a solid couple of years to keep the 'stache growing!
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Yay! I'll be joining the ranks soon.
I've got two boys, ages 7 & 2, with #3 on the way this summer. I've been raising my youngest sister though, so we've had three kids for the past five years. She'll be heading off to college about two weeks after the baby gets here.
We don't do any extra curricular activities right now. The youngest is enrolled in a MMO program for $115 per month - I use that time (six hours per week) to work from home. I'll be dropping that this summer, and we'll have a year off of any tuition before we enroll the (then 3 year old) into a montessori preschool (I'm not expecting to work from home with toddler + baby, but who knows). That's the plan any way.
I keep asking my oldest if he'd like to do an activity, but he keeps insisting he doesn't, so I won't push it on him. We do lots of artsy type stuff around here together, and he loves playing video games (ugh) with his dad. His school has a music program starting at 3rd grade, so we may start him on an instrument then.
We drive a 2008 Honda Odyssey, base model that we bought used when #2 was on the way (keep in mind, we also have the teen here, so we were going to be driving 5 people often enough to kinda justify... and now with a third carseat on the way, I'm glad we have it.) I don't drive often - once per week for groceries, twice per week for MMO - which is 2 miles away.
Our house is the perfect size for our family - right at 2250 sf. We have 4br 3ba, but right now one of those bedrooms is a study. Teen has a suite upstairs that will likely be turned into a playroom for a few years. Our study may have to be turned into a bedroom.... not sure yet. Our kids tend to room in with us for at least the first two years.
I imagine our lives will get busier as these kids get older, but right now we lead a pretty chill life. We're homebodies -- not much in the way of activities or travel just yet. We plan to start going to national & state parks when the (unborn) baby gets to be around 2 or 3. That gives us a solid couple of years to keep the 'stache growing!
Congratulations on the 3rd one on the way! Your life will effeminately get busier as they get older. When our oldest was young we just put him in all sorts of programs at the YMCA because it was inexpensive and gave him an opportunity to see if he had interest in anything. Eventually he settled on Soccer and each child after him started at a younger and younger age. My last one at 3 but its good exercise for them and at that age still pretty inexpensive. Your house is about the size i would be happy with . We have to much empty space but were locked in here for another 4 years in which then down to 2 kids we will downsize to like a 2k ranch. Hopefully if we stay in those location (which i dont want to ) the house we will finish out in.
Soccer keeps us busy but other than that we dont do much and are home bodies as well. In the rare occasions we have a night where one of them doesnt need to go to training its nice to just sit him so we dont spend alot of money on other things.
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My basement is "stubbed" for a bathroom but they did it in what I consider the worst possible spot. Since one kid will be going to college soon I am not too worried about it. Before I remarried and was renting out rooms I thought about putting a bathroom down there but the renter never complained so why add the expense.
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Since I've posted, I've been thinking about more ways we save as a larger family. Here are a few extra thoughts:
Food:
5- 4'x8' Square foot gardens in summer- I'm experimenting with winter sowing seeds in milk jugs. I got my non-GMO organic seeds from Costco this year! We have fruit trees, grapes, herbs, & berries that are perennial. I love perennial foods because they keep producing year after year with little to no work from us. I'm all about minimizing work. We also have learned to bottle a few things and have gotten a pressure canner to do meat and other low acid foods.
We get 1/4-1/2 grass fed beef from family that raise them. My FIL was making it our Christmas present, but he has moved so we will need to find our own. We don't eat a lot of red meat, but I feel better about eating it when we get a grass fed beef that has lived a good life.
Hubby and I juice- the kids will drink it when they're sick. We try to do a glass of green juice in the morning on weekdays. We get organic greens, vegs, carrots, apples from Costco when our garden isn't producing. Probably spend $20 extra/week for fruits/vegs, but we feel so much healthier when we do it.
Schools- We don't homeschool- we have decent public schools and it would have to be super corrupt in order for me to homeschool. ;) Lately, this has allowed me to have a part-time job. I don't make much money, but I need 2000 work hours to apply for my master's program and that has allowed me to accomplish it. I also have taken a college course here and there to get me ready to apply. Being a mom of six, I love my classes and it's a great break for me. A happy mom = a happy family! I feel like I'm using my brain and that I'm more ready to contribute financially, should my hubby lose his job or become disabled. It will also catapult our finances to FI when I am out of my program.
Babies- I breastfed all my children 1+ years. This was a huge savings, but I feel like the health benefits are the real value. I didn't cloth diaper- my hats off to you guys doing it! If I were still having babies, I would try it.
Toddlers- We would get annual memberships to the children's museum or zoo. They had reciprocal agreements that let us visit other museums/zoo's around the country which was nice. It was a good outing for all.
Kids- Our kids started out at the YMCA or local community center for sports. Very reasonable and you can try different things and see what your kids like. We have very athletic kids and a sports-minded dad, so "club" sports started after that. A lot of driving and expense. We got burned out on the first two (although sports has paid for oldest's university), so we are trying to encourage more academics and school clubs for the younger kids. It's not entirely successful, but we are trying. :)
Teens- We pay for teens cell phone $10 plans. This is a convenience for us to get a hold of them and for them to contact us for rides, in case of emergency, etc. If they want to have more features or go over that amount, it is up to them to pay.
Travel- we need two hotel rooms or a VRBO condo for our family. The condos are great because we have access to a full kitchen and W/D, which helps with a large family. Everyone shares a bed. My parents have an RV made for six people, but we make it work so we can take inexpensive trips. We are taking the whole family to Hawaii for 9 days, staying in a VRBO condo and flying cheapo Allegiant air out of Vegas. It's still a pricey trip, but we are doing pretty well if you figure out the per person cost. We believe that taking trips together and having those memories are worth the price. Kids grow up and leave home way too soon!
Home- We try to DIY whatever we can. I'm the designated DIY girl- appliance repair, furniture repair, home repair, unless something needs brute strength. Hubby is less enthusiastic about projects- he'd rather pay someone. I still get him to do things from time to time.
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Hey Big Families----we have 4 kids (12, 10, 6 and 2) and I love it!
How do we do it? I get asked this all the time. "My god, Ruth, how do you do it with four kids?!?!" I tell people I do it with love and style.
What works for us:
1 minivan, paid off
3 bedroom, 1 bath duplex close to schools
lots of beans, rice, and vegetables
thrift shops for clothes
hiking/camping is our summer fun
And I breastfeed and have cloth diapered and all of that good stuff.
Our big expense is sports. We have 3 boys and they need a good amount of running around. Soccer in the fall, swim team during the rainy, wet winter, baseball in the spring. My dh coaches and refs, I am always team mom, so it is a big family activity for us and we like it that way. Soccer and baseball are super low cost, swimming less so.
We used to homeschool, but recently moved across the country to an area with terrific schools. This has been a huge money saver for us. Where I used to pay for private music lessons, now my older kids do youth symphony at school. I used to pay for math and science programs, now it is all included in school. There have been some supplies and fees, but significantly less than what I used to spend. Homeschooling can be done on the cheap, but I was never very good at getting our costs down.
I haven't had to deal with cars and phones yet. I am not crazy about teens having phones and we purposefully moved to this lovely, bikeable town just so we wouldn't have to drive a lot. Thankfully, we have instilled our kids with a deep sense of environmental, hippie love, so maybe they will be content riding their bikes.
And we have been very lucky...we have healthy, easy going kids. I know families with sick kids who will be in debt to doctors/hospitals forever. I remind myself of this all the time.
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Happy to join this forum!
Hopefully, we can share ideas here on many things related to our wonderful, happy, crazy, large families!
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Five kids, ages 12 to 26.
Major cost saving items, off the top of my head:
- Bunk beds to fit in 3 bedroom house.
- Keeping cars for >15 years (would have averaged longer except chronic transmission problems on one minivan) and buying used for cash when we needed to replace.
- Having kids (by their own choice) accept great merit-based scholarships at very good universities rather than pay full freight at "more selective" places.
- Not taking (too many) expensive vacations. Can't say we never overspent - but even MMM himself admits to being young and foolish once upon a time.
-
Since I've posted, I've been thinking about more ways we save as a larger family. Here are a few extra thoughts:
Food:
5- 4'x8' Square foot gardens in summer- I'm experimenting with winter sowing seeds in milk jugs. I got my non-GMO organic seeds from Costco this year! We have fruit trees, grapes, herbs, & berries that are perennial. I love perennial foods because they keep producing year after year with little to no work from us. I'm all about minimizing work. We also have learned to bottle a few things and have gotten a pressure canner to do meat and other low acid foods.
We get 1/4-1/2 grass fed beef from family that raise them. My FIL was making it our Christmas present, but he has moved so we will need to find our own. We don't eat a lot of red meat, but I feel better about eating it when we get a grass fed beef that has lived a good life.
Hubby and I juice- the kids will drink it when they're sick. We try to do a glass of green juice in the morning on weekdays. We get organic greens, vegs, carrots, apples from Costco when our garden isn't producing. Probably spend $20 extra/week for fruits/vegs, but we feel so much healthier when we do it.
Schools- We don't homeschool- we have decent public schools and it would have to be super corrupt in order for me to homeschool. ;) Lately, this has allowed me to have a part-time job. I don't make much money, but I need 2000 work hours to apply for my master's program and that has allowed me to accomplish it. I also have taken a college course here and there to get me ready to apply. Being a mom of six, I love my classes and it's a great break for me. A happy mom = a happy family! I feel like I'm using my brain and that I'm more ready to contribute financially, should my hubby lose his job or become disabled. It will also catapult our finances to FI when I am out of my program.
Babies- I breastfed all my children 1+ years. This was a huge savings, but I feel like the health benefits are the real value. I didn't cloth diaper- my hats off to you guys doing it! If I were still having babies, I would try it.
Toddlers- We would get annual memberships to the children's museum or zoo. They had reciprocal agreements that let us visit other museums/zoo's around the country which was nice. It was a good outing for all.
Kids- Our kids started out at the YMCA or local community center for sports. Very reasonable and you can try different things and see what your kids like. We have very athletic kids and a sports-minded dad, so "club" sports started after that. A lot of driving and expense. We got burned out on the first two (although sports has paid for oldest's university), so we are trying to encourage more academics and school clubs for the younger kids. It's not entirely successful, but we are trying. :)
Teens- We pay for teens cell phone $10 plans. This is a convenience for us to get a hold of them and for them to contact us for rides, in case of emergency, etc. If they want to have more features or go over that amount, it is up to them to pay.
Travel- we need two hotel rooms or a VRBO condo for our family. The condos are great because we have access to a full kitchen and W/D, which helps with a large family. Everyone shares a bed. My parents have an RV made for six people, but we make it work so we can take inexpensive trips. We are taking the whole family to Hawaii for 9 days, staying in a VRBO condo and flying cheapo Allegiant air out of Vegas. It's still a pricey trip, but we are doing pretty well if you figure out the per person cost. We believe that taking trips together and having those memories are worth the price. Kids grow up and leave home way too soon!
Home- We try to DIY whatever we can. I'm the designated DIY girl- appliance repair, furniture repair, home repair, unless something needs brute strength. Hubby is less enthusiastic about projects- he'd rather pay someone. I still get him to do things from time to time.
I am putting in 4 raised garden beds this spring divided to make 8 plots. I think this will not only give us alot of veggies but also good for the kids to work in.
Like you sports is our big thing and we did the YMCA thing in the beginning with the 2 oldest. The two youngest we didnt have to be part of the YMCA anymore because they wanted to follow there older siblings into Soccer.
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Hey Big Families----we have 4 kids (12, 10, 6 and 2) and I love it!
How do we do it? I get asked this all the time. "My god, Ruth, how do you do it with four kids?!?!" I tell people I do it with love and style.
What works for us:
1 minivan, paid off
3 bedroom, 1 bath duplex close to schools
lots of beans, rice, and vegetables
thrift shops for clothes
hiking/camping is our summer fun
And I breastfeed and have cloth diapered and all of that good stuff.
Our big expense is sports. We have 3 boys and they need a good amount of running around. Soccer in the fall, swim team during the rainy, wet winter, baseball in the spring. My dh coaches and refs, I am always team mom, so it is a big family activity for us and we like it that way. Soccer and baseball are super low cost, swimming less so.
We used to homeschool, but recently moved across the country to an area with terrific schools. This has been a huge money saver for us. Where I used to pay for private music lessons, now my older kids do youth symphony at school. I used to pay for math and science programs, now it is all included in school. There have been some supplies and fees, but significantly less than what I used to spend. Homeschooling can be done on the cheap, but I was never very good at getting our costs down.
I haven't had to deal with cars and phones yet. I am not crazy about teens having phones and we purposefully moved to this lovely, bikeable town just so we wouldn't have to drive a lot. Thankfully, we have instilled our kids with a deep sense of environmental, hippie love, so maybe they will be content riding their bikes.
And we have been very lucky...we have healthy, easy going kids. I know families with sick kids who will be in debt to doctors/hospitals forever. I remind myself of this all the time.
I love the answer "with love and style" gotta borrow that one! We live in a very good school system so we are happy with that as well and heck were paying taxes for it so might as well take advantage of it!
Five kids, ages 12 to 26.
Major cost saving items, off the top of my head:
- Bunk beds to fit in 3 bedroom house.
- Keeping cars for >15 years (would have averaged longer except chronic transmission problems on one minivan) and buying used for cash when we needed to replace.
- Having kids (by their own choice) accept great merit-based scholarships at very good universities rather than pay full freight at "more selective" places.
- Not taking (too many) expensive vacations. Can't say we never overspent - but even MMM himself admits to being young and foolish once upon a time.
Having Kids by Choice I COULDNT AGREE MORE! its a lifestyle one must want to have and then living it is alot easier and fun!!! well said
8 kids! WOW....so blessed! Kudos for your acknowledgement of your husband and I hope/am sure he feels the same about you! People with large familys just figure it out! And maybe you wont get to FI when the rest of the world but your experience and memories with your kids...........Priceless!
Happy to join this forum! We are parents of eight kids, aged 22, 20, 18, 16, 13, 10, 8 and 6. I am a SAHM and homeschool the 5 youngest - the oldest 3 have already graduated, although they all still live at home.
ER/FI seems an eternity away for us, but we try, try, try to be careful with our money, and since finding MMM last fall, I've been plowing my way through "all the posts since the beginning of time" and often read them aloud to my husband.
He works SO hard to provide for us, and we are dreaming of the possibility of him retiring in 10 years at the age of 59. Its hard to figure out what our annual living expenses will be like in 10 years. i.e.: how many kids will still live at home? what will our life look like? what will our needs be? He used to joke that he is on the "Freedom 85" plan, but we are definitely not thinking that way any longer! :-)
Hopefully, we can share ideas here on many things related to our wonderful, happy, crazy, large families!
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For cheap vacations we use to tent camp. Too many bad (rain/cold) trips so we finally bought a toy hauler. Yes it is a little pricey and unmastachian but we all love it. All 7 of can sleep in it either using the floors or a small tent if it happens to be nice. Even just weekend trips to local campgrounds to get away from the house are nice. Plus it gives us more family time. We do more things together, play cards and board games, fish, play bags or ladder toss, toss baseball/football, hike, ride bicycles, all great stuff.
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For cheap vacations we use to tent camp. Too many bad (rain/cold) trips so we finally bought a toy hauler. Yes it is a little pricey and unmastachian but we all love it. All 7 of can sleep in it either using the floors or a small tent if it happens to be nice. Even just weekend trips to local campgrounds to get away from the house are nice. Plus it gives us more family time. We do more things together, play cards and board games, fish, play bags or ladder toss, toss baseball/football, hike, ride bicycles, all great stuff.
I like that idea!!!!!
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I love to be included in this, we only have 3 children, but I think it's funny people think that is big :) We just have too many friends who have 5+children, so our 3 seems small.
We have 3 boys 2,4,and 7 so these things we have found work, but we don't yet have experience with raising older children.
I drive a 2003 Honda Odyssey, love the mini van, space in case of an accident is my number one reason, love the space as we have remodeled though, it comes in really handy when you don't have a truck.
Just in 2013 we replaced our 98 Subaru, now we have a 2010 Vibe for my DH to commute with
We have a huge house that is a slow flip and we hope to sell it later this year and turn around and buy our next home with cash and hopefully have enough leftover to buy a small rental place too to supplement our income, and just invest in something other than mutual funds.
We cloth diapered for almost 7consecutive years, saved a bunch!
We used donor milk for our newborns (We adopted and I tried hard to induce lactation, but to no avail)
They so far have only had swimming lessons
I have asked multiple times, but they aren't yet interested in sports or activities, maybe soon?
We homeschool, just since Jan though, so far it's been great and I love having them home with me.
We eat simply and that saves a lot
Buy our beef local as a half a cow
We have our own chickens, but honestly that has been a lot more expensive than buying the eggs, at this point they are pets, that give us some food, but we don't even break even on selling the eggs
We don't have a dog, this saves us a ton of money :)
We knew we wouldn't want to vacation a lot because of the price and hassle of taking car seats and 3 kids in one hotel room etc...
So we bought a little trailer on a lake, a whole community of them here, it might not be cheaper than a vacation, but it is 10 min from our house, we have my in laws are there, and so is my Brother in law and his family, it is easy to get to , stay, and have good fun and the kids have the freedom to ride their bikes and go fishing, it's been a life saver, we even lived there the summer of 12, while we were getting our house ready to move into, it saved us a lot of money. We'll probably keep it forever, we can rent it out and I would love to rent it enough to pay the yearly dues and taxes, that would be great!
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we have five kids, like many others I try to limit after school activities, but the truth is that most of my kids arent really into sports. two kids are learning piano via youtube (they are, in my tone deaf opinion, very talented and play by ear. dh plays and says their technique is spot on too, so I'm lucky that we live in an age of youtube), my dd takes guitar lessons once per week and one of my kids does karate twice per week. my little girl wants to take ballet, tap, gymnastics and karate but we'll see about that. right now we just play outside :)
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who doesnt feel obligated to pay for college. I put myself through school and got a very decent education/degree/job from state and city universities. depending on where I am financially I might pay some of that, but I'm not making any promises.
as far as traveling and hotel rooms, we take very few vacations, but we've found it less expensive to rent a house. its more spacious, usually we get a private pool and other amenities, and the full kitchen makes it easy to cook, so no eating out also saves money. I've found that if you book last minute, the owner will negotiate rates. no one wants his rental home sitting empty! last time we rented a gorgeous 6 bedroom home with pool for a week for less than what one hotel room would've cost for that week in that area.
my big issue right now is getting our grocery bill down. I keep reading here about people eating less than $300/mo and I know they are smaller families, but lets just say my food bill is waaaay higher than that.
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I'll also chime in. I've got 3 children, which is that borderline size - some people think we're being reckless profligates and contributing madly to overpopulation while others think we are being stingy with our love by stopping at three. Such is life :)
As far as money goes, we both think that the big decisions are the big ones when it comes to finances. There's no point making your own laundry powder if you're overextended on cars and house.
We have two cars, both bought very used, a 1999 Toyota Estima (aka Previa) ,and a Hyundai Lantra of roughly the same vintage. The Hyundai is what my DH uses to get to work, and the Estima does family duty. the Estima is the only one with Collision coverage (I think you call it? where if I hit something then the damage to our car gets repaired and so does any other damage). The Hyundai just has 3rd party, fire, and theft coverage, both with high deductibles.
We live in a modest 3br house, 1 bath, 1 living room, 1 detached garage. I've been sorely tempted to up-size in the last couple of years - to have another bathroom and a second living space would be great. But in this part of the world, that means moving from a house value of about $255k to closer to $400k. That's an awfully expensive toilet. So for now we stay put. And there are a lot of great things about our current house which I'm happy to keep.
We homeschool. I take a relaxed eclectic approach, which means I don't pay tons of money for a full curriculum. I pick and choose resources for the reading, writing, math component for each child, and basically rely on the internet and the library for books and projects for the other subjects. Any poor curriculum choice can usually be flipped on the second hand circuit, and new resources to try can usually be found the same way.
Of course, we do the small things too:
- making our own laundry powder
- drink homemade kombucha or tap water, not bought drinks
- meal plan and shopping to a list. Actual numbers will be meaningless due to the whole different country thing, but we try and spend what is generally considered a very budget amount, while keeping the quality good (i.e. no processed foods, lots of veg, real meat, very little sugar and flour, all made from scratch)
- limiting kids' activities - 1 activity per child at a time, and preferably overlapping. i.e softball or basketball but not both for a single child. And they have to be within budget - art classes last year were awesome but completely fragged our budget, so we're not doing that this year.
- We have a chest freezer and buy beef by the half-beast
- we have 4 backyard chickens. Not really cheaper than buying eggs, but as far as pets go, they at least give something back.
- weekly trips to the city library instead of buying books. We had vouchers for a book shop so last week I took the children. They suffered total sticker shock, and couldn't believe how expensive new books are. (and they are here, much pricier than buying them online because of import duties and taxes).
And the non-mustachian:
- One geriatric cat who needs daily medication and a special diet and 6-monthly blood tests. All my frugal ancestors are undoubtedly turning in their graves, rolling their eyes and saying things like "a bullet only costs 5c". But he's a honey and he'll live out his days in warmth and caring in our house.
- DH plays Magic the Gathering, which can be ridiculously expensive. But to give him full credit, he usually translates his winnings in tournaments into store credit which he uses to pay entry into the next tournament, and he doesn't spend much on cards at all anymore.
- I'm a quilter, which occasionally manifests as insane fabric purchases. But to give myself full credit, I try to use my fabric stash as much as I can, and only add to it if it is actually truly necessary. truly :) And I like to use reclaimed/upcycled fabrics too i.e. shirts etc from op shops (I think you call them goodwill shops?). My basic self-defense is to just stay out of fabric stores.
Lovely to meet you all.
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I am glad alot of people are chiming in. I hope people come back to the site to add to it and view what others are doing.
I see homeschooling is common on here with larger families. This is something we chose not to do only because we pay stupid money to live in a very good school district (best in state). We have no choice because our business is here.
It also seems that alot of larger families just figure it out what it takes to make it happen because they made the choice to have a larger family and thats awesome. And I agree that way to many people that consider 3,4 or even 5 kids alot are wrong IMHO but respect those that have lesser size families if any kids at all than those that just chose to have them because of society or? Doesnt make them bad people and I respect there choice just as I wish people just respected ours.
Alot of raising big family decisions and making it and providing come seemingly more out of a bigger need of necessity unless a person/couple is doing really well and I think Parents of the Larger families seem to be the most creative.
My big thing is trying to be a good parent but still finding some me time for my wife and I. How are people doing on that? please share. I dont want to be at a point where all the kids move out and then its just the 2 of us and the "Now what".
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Here's something I hope you can help me with: sibling squabbles!
They are driving me CRAZY!!!!!!!!
My three (8, 9, 12) have always been pretty close, gotten along well, chose to share a room even though they didn't have to, etc. When other parents would complain about their children fighting, I secretly/smugly felt so grateful that my kids loved each other and were friends. (Pride goeth before a fall and all that.)
It has changed and I don't know why. Not sure if it's just their ages or if something else is going on, but they love to push each others' buttons, and they're good at it. Bicker, bicker, bicker, all day long.
My tendency has been not to intervene, but encourage then to sort it out. But my middle child is quite self-centered and stubborn and will hold out until the others give in or continue being so obnoxious they end up giving him his own way. But I'm only half paying attention, so when I intervene, I'm not sure I have all the facts, so that's not fair. I really want to teach them skills: how to compromise, negotiate, walk away, etc.
Any advice?
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My kids are in a similar stage, though they've hit the squabbling stage at much younger ages (3,5,7,9). One thing we're trying: service. If you hurt someone (physically, verbally, etc) you need to do something nice for them--do their morning chore, clean their room, etc.
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My big thing is trying to be a good parent but still finding some me time for my wife and I. How are people doing on that? please share. I dont want to be at a point where all the kids move out and then its just the 2 of us and the "Now what".
We believe in weekly dates, and trips without the kids. Sometimes our date is going to watch a kid's basketball game- but we don't bring the other kids. Sometimes it is a typical date. It is helpful if you have a grandparent, sibling, or friend you can get to watch the kids. When DH and I go somewhere alone, we are able to focus on each other entirely. It's good to have those times to rejuvenate your marriage. I have a sister that won't go anywhere without her kids and I don't think it's healthy. Like you said, you don't want the kids to move out, look at your spouse, and think "who are you?".
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Here's something I hope you can help me with: sibling squabbles!
They are driving me CRAZY!!!!!!!!
My three (8, 9, 12) have always been pretty close, gotten along well, chose to share a room even though they didn't have to, etc. When other parents would complain about their children fighting, I secretly/smugly felt so grateful that my kids loved each other and were friends. (Pride goeth before a fall and all that.)
It has changed and I don't know why. Not sure if it's just their ages or if something else is going on, but they love to push each others' buttons, and they're good at it. Bicker, bicker, bicker, all day long.
My tendency has been not to intervene, but encourage then to sort it out. But my middle child is quite self-centered and stubborn and will hold out until the others give in or continue being so obnoxious they end up giving him his own way. But I'm only half paying attention, so when I intervene, I'm not sure I have all the facts, so that's not fair. I really want to teach them skills: how to compromise, negotiate, walk away, etc.
Any advice?
I think you just got away with it alot longer than most. I have a 8 boy 10 boy 14g and 15b and they have always squabbled. But at the end of the day they would rather spend time with each other when there not playing soccer. Just wish they could give us and hour or two a night of peace but not holding my breath. Also always here how great they are when they go to someone elses house even if together....argh!!! You figure that one out let me know but it gets worse as they get older.
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My big thing is trying to be a good parent but still finding some me time for my wife and I. How are people doing on that? please share. I dont want to be at a point where all the kids move out and then its just the 2 of us and the "Now what".
We believe in weekly dates, and trips without the kids. Sometimes our date is going to watch a kid's basketball game- but we don't bring the other kids. Sometimes it is a typical date. It is helpful if you have a grandparent, sibling, or friend you can get to watch the kids. When DH and I go somewhere alone, we are able to focus on each other entirely. It's good to have those times to rejuvenate your marriage. I have a sister that won't go anywhere without her kids and I don't think it's healthy. Like you said, you don't want the kids to move out, look at your spouse, and think "who are you?".
We have sporting events every night and every weekend. 2 weeks ago my daughter went had to go to Las Vegas for a Soccer tournament and we thought it be great time for us to have some alone time NOT. We do get out for a few hours once or so every two weeks but just have to make a bigger effort at it I guess. With a 15 and a 14 year old you think it would be easier since they can watch the younger ones but its not.
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My big thing is trying to be a good parent but still finding some me time for my wife and I. How are people doing on that? please share. I dont want to be at a point where all the kids move out and then its just the 2 of us and the "Now what".
We believe in weekly dates, and trips without the kids. Sometimes our date is going to watch a kid's basketball game- but we don't bring the other kids. Sometimes it is a typical date. It is helpful if you have a grandparent, sibling, or friend you can get to watch the kids. When DH and I go somewhere alone, we are able to focus on each other entirely. It's good to have those times to rejuvenate your marriage. I have a sister that won't go anywhere without her kids and I don't think it's healthy. Like you said, you don't want the kids to move out, look at your spouse, and think "who are you?".
We have sporting events every night and every weekend. 2 weeks ago my daughter went had to go to Las Vegas for a Soccer tournament and we thought it be great time for us to have some alone time NOT. We do get out for a few hours once or so every two weeks but just have to make a bigger effort at it I guess. With a 15 and a 14 year old you think it would be easier since they can watch the younger ones but its not.
I hear what you're saying about it being harder as the kids get older. Ours are all still 10 and under, so we are able to set aside one evening a week as a date night, even without leaving the house - we just send the kids to bed a bit earlier :) Can't see that working when they're 15.
Regarding bickering, I've noticed it getting worse in our house with our eldest girl hitting the pre-adolescent hormones. Ugh. Like Gray Matter, I try to get them to sort it out themselves, but to be honest it usually involves me separating them or sending them all outside!
I console myself with something that Diane Levy said: If your children never argue or fight then you have a problem - they have likely sorted themselves into a relationship where one person is the boss and always gets their way and the other person always rolls over and says ok. If they're arguing then they're both learning negotiation skills (albeit negotiating like children).
Lots of negotiation in our house :)
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I agree. And to a certain point i think its healthy they fight for there rights/space etc.. As long as the love is there between them i can deal with some of the bickering.
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No great wisdom on the kids' fighting. My DW tends to intervene quite a bit, whereas I'll typically let them sort it out - unless the volume hits a certain threshold OR hitting/violence gets involved. If you want them to learn 'negotiation' you have to let them negotiate.
With our work schedules, it's hard to get a night out of the house alone. In winter, we try to make our alone time right after dinner. Let kids watch TV, while we go upstairs, locking a door if necessary. In nicer weather, we can take them to the park and have a nice conversation while they play. YMMV.
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We have three young kids, two of whom are home sick today, so this will be a quick post.
I am a big fan of Faber and Mazlish, particularly this book regarding sibling relationships: http://www.amazon.com/Siblings-Without-Rivalry-Children-Together/dp/0393342212/ref=la_B000APW64I_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1393882515&sr=1-2
I can't recommend it highly enough.
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Here's something I hope you can help me with: sibling squabbles!
...
My tendency has been not to intervene, but encourage then to sort it out. But my middle child is quite self-centered and stubborn and will hold out until the others give in or continue being so obnoxious they end up giving him his own way. But I'm only half paying attention, so when I intervene, I'm not sure I have all the facts, so that's not fair. I really want to teach them skills: how to compromise, negotiate, walk away, etc.
Any advice?
YMMV, but one things that seems to have worked for us was this:
If I (Dad) came upon a situation where one child was laughing and the other was crying, then the laugher was in big trouble with me. This policy was well publicized.
Did it stop all squabbles? Of course not. But did the kids seem to learn that in the long run it was better to treat each other well instead of teasing, and do they all now (most are in college or older) get along very well? Yes.
Good luck.
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YMMV, but one things that seems to have worked for us was this:
If I (Dad) came upon a situation where one child was laughing and the other was crying, then the laugher was in big trouble with me. This policy was well publicized.
Did it stop all squabbles? Of course not. But did the kids seem to learn that in the long run it was better to treat each other well instead of teasing, and do they all now (most are in college or older) get along very well? Yes.
Good luck.
Great plan. I like how you've phrased it - easy for all to understand. In our house we say "It's only a game if everyone is having fun".
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no advice about the squabbles, we've had sibling squabbles since the day I brought #2 home from the hospital.
re couples time, its hard. we dont manage to do date nights, once in a while we will go out for brunch and we try to get a day trip together once or twice a year. the big thing for us is that we have our morning coffee together every morning and the kids know they arent invited (the dog sometimes joins us but thats ok because he doesnt interrupt our conversation). its a nice way to start the day. we also go to bed at the same time every night, which is nice too.
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Here's something I hope you can help me with: sibling squabbles!
...
My tendency has been not to intervene, but encourage then to sort it out. But my middle child is quite self-centered and stubborn and will hold out until the others give in or continue being so obnoxious they end up giving him his own way. But I'm only half paying attention, so when I intervene, I'm not sure I have all the facts, so that's not fair. I really want to teach them skills: how to compromise, negotiate, walk away, etc.
Any advice?
YMMV, but one things that seems to have worked for us was this:
If I (Dad) came upon a situation where one child was laughing and the other was crying, then the laugher was in big trouble with me. This policy was well publicized.
Did it stop all squabbles? Of course not. But did the kids seem to learn that in the long run it was better to treat each other well instead of teasing, and do they all now (most are in college or older) get along very well? Yes.
Good luck.
I like that and it worked for awhile UNTIL my kids figured it out . The big thing now is they know what to say to get each other in trouble so now its military style for awhile. The all get punished. Or if they say " I didnt do it , I will make all 4 sit at the kitchen counter till one admits they did it." This one works!
no advice about the squabbles, we've had sibling squabbles since the day I brought #2 home from the hospital.
re couples time, its hard. we dont manage to do date nights, once in a while we will go out for brunch and we try to get a day trip together once or twice a year. the big thing for us is that we have our morning coffee together every morning and the kids know they arent invited (the dog sometimes joins us but thats ok because he doesnt interrupt our conversation). its a nice way to start the day. we also go to bed at the same time every night, which is nice too.
My wife and I get up usually by 4:30 so we get time in the morning like that but we are usually in our home office , drinking coffee and talking about things of the day while doing some work. Its nice but we still need to make a better effort of getting out if not for ice cream and a laugh once a week. Now its usually event related and thats not very intimate.
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Just read this and thought I would share here:
www.madfientist.com/how-to-retire-early-with-13-kids/
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Just read this and thought I would share here:
www.madfientist.com/how-to-retire-early-with-13-kids/
That just landed in my inbox this morning :) I thought it was great!
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OK after reading that 4 kids is easy! :-)
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Single mom with three kids (ages 15, 8, and 4). I get the "I don't know how you do it" a lot too. I think the only crappy part about single parenting is that I have to work full time so we can get everything we want/need in our lives. I would much rather spend more time parenting, but they are at school most of my work hours anyway. They are great kids! Even though their ages are so different they still bicker and push each others buttons constantly. Which can either be maddening or almost comical at times for me :) I nursed them and cloth diapered. I cook all the meals. Oldest is a great help. Middle is my son and we just try our best to run his energy out each day :) babseball season helps me with that soon! And karate class. Youngest is proud to be finally in school (half day pre-k) so she can do homework with the rest of them during homework time :) I was an only child and was bored a lot, so watching this arrangement can be so funny! I am working on my BA so I can get a better job and they love see MY report cards :) haha! I have thought a lot about it and I think they will find their own way to pay for college ( with my help of course) but I would rather get myself FI and not b a burdon on them later in life than pay for school. We ride bikes a lot! We have one minivan (2006 that I got for $1000!) And I only owe a little on my home, so we are doing pretty good I think :) I have 4 bedrooms, but only one bathroom.... That will be my next home improvement though... It definitely all keeps life interesting! And the days that its overwhelming, I just remind myself that someday they will all grow up and leave and I will miss the chaos.
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We have four: one is on her own, married and working (23), one is an engineering student in college and still at home (19), but covers his own transportation, college books, entertainment, clothing, etc., and the other two are 15 and 13. I expect the 15-year-old to be dependent a little longer because he has some developmental delays.
Since my husband is a 90% disabled veteran, the state of California covers tuition for our kids. They only have to pay for books and parking. Our oldest has moved to Arizona and can't take advantage of that, but her company offers education benefits, so she's in good shape, too.
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We have 5 kids: 23, 21, 18, 15, and 9. The oldest is graduated from college and has joined the navy to further her education. Two are in college now, and two left at home. I am beginning to think seriously about downsizing - we bought a big old farmhouse/4 unit, and took back apartments as they went empty until we had one big single family home, somewhat still in unremuddling.
Our kids are much more involved in music/drama, but still do sports, too, so we seem to always be running around. We don't do many activities outside of school, except for summer sports and summer drama club at the library. They are quite busy enough with just school stuff - we just finished "hell weeks": the two weeks that overlap between the beginning of track season and the end of musical with 4 hour practices everyday or performance nights. I struggle with limiting the kids interests; they tend to emulate each other and get involved in the same things, but because of the age differences there is still not enough overlap ( e.g., a few years ago when we had kids in all the district schools, we were attending 4 concerts multiple times a year - ES, 5/6, 7/8, HS).
We are homebodies, so vacations in the past were mostly tent camping weekends.
I was a SAHM (breastfed, cloth diapers, etc.) until the youngest hit school age, when I began working part time. That was also about the time we paid off the mortgage and the oldest began college. Large families are helpful, at least with relatively low income, for financial aid purposes. I keep up on how the fafsa is calculated so I don't inadvertently make a financial move that would hurt the kids' aid. It changes all the time, usually for the worse. I am concerned about whether DS4 and DS5 will have a harder time getting aid than their older siblings as part of a now smaller family, and how approaching RE will affect it (like funding a Roth pipeline may increase our apparent income and thus increase our EFC). It is all about the tradeoffs.
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For people with teens if you haven't you got to read the book Yes, your teen is crazy by Michael J. Bradley just throwing that out there.
I have two now that are teens and soon 2 to be and What insight this book is.
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This Saturday, we have three locations at the same time (bee class and two soccer locations). I am not sure how to do this. How do you guys do this?!
Carpooling with other people. Especially if you can reciprocate, people will often be happy to pick you kid(s) up and/or deliver them back. This does assume you live somewhere in a reasonable vicinity to the other family. Soccer team parents would be our first bet.
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Wanted to chime in from Canada with four kids 6 years & under!
Since we had the fourth kid (still an infant) what has been a lifesaver is meal planning. Simple sheet we print out each Sunday and write down at least five meals for the week--there's a column for what ingredients we need to shop for, and I take it grocery shopping with me. I also write husband's schedule on it so I know what nights he'll be home for supper, home to help me prep, or not home (he has a varying retail schedule). I also throw on the list any other pantry staples I'm out of so I know to be looking for those on sale.
Some other points:
*Always ALWAYS buy meat on sale, usually I buy enough for three or four meals, will make two meals from that meat for the week and throw the others in the freezer (kids complain when we have chicken five nights in a row).
*We make the best pizza in the universe. It's not cheaper than ordering it from up the street, but we make it whole wheat crust from scratch (I love LOVE to bake), customize each quarter of the kiddos' pizza so nobody's picking off toppings, and pile on veggies and meats galore. BUT it's a lot of work, so although it's probably the most expensive meal we make, it happens at most once a week when hubby's home to help slice & dice, and there are leftovers for lunch the next day.
*Both of us eat leftovers as lunch at work. Really a no-brainer when you love to cook and cook what you love.
*Canada has a beautiful thing called maternity leave......which has enabled us to breastfeed all the children to 14-22 months old, and cloth diaper until they're potty trained around 2 years old.
*We both have irregular schedules, mine unchangeable but hubby has control over his, so we try to have at least one day off together per week and try to stagger our shifts so the kids aren't in childcare 10 hours a day. We have had a patchwork of wonderful friends and neighbours watching our precious kids anywhere from 5-40 hours per week (we pay them hourly; traditional daycare won't work as there are evenings & weekends to also cover for us).
*Used vehicles. We've been driving our "commuter" car for 10 years as of July, a compact 4-dr that we made do with a single vehicle until I returned to work after our firstborn and was expecting again. At that point, it was too crazy paying for two extra hours of childcare so I could ride the bus to work (we have a crap bus system here, but used it to the best of our ability until it was costing sanity points). Again, bought a used minivan with cash, and it's 11 years old now and some minor repairs here and there keep it going.
*Bought a house close to everything: the park, the bank, the library, the bus route, the grocery store, the trails by the river. As soon as the snow is off the sidewalks we're walking pretty much every afternoon or evening after supper. That first mat leave, I would strap my babe in the carrier or the stroller and spend all day walking to the library, the bank, the post office, load up on groceries. Probably why it was so easy to get back into shape! (That's another topic)
*No body's in hockey. Pretty sure we're the only Canadians who haven't put our offspring in peewee (or whatever it's called at this age) hockey. Neither of us consider it worth the expense or time/sanity. We go to the Y for swimming lessons, and when they're a bit older we might do Judo there. Mostly we go to the park, play baseball in the backyard, have the neighbour kids over for soccer, and shoot hoops with Dad. And bikes!
*Saving for higher education: I opened a family RESP when my first was a baby. My income was low enough to qualify for a government grant, and none of my other kids qualified after that. Still, gov matches 20% of what I put in. So I've been taking the baby bonus & universal childcare cheques they send us and put it in the RESP. (Advantage to the "family" RESP is if one of my kids opts not to get higher education, brothers & sisters can use the money originally allotted for that child.) Basically, Canada will pay for my kids' university costs. Anything not covered by the RESP they can get a job to pay for. I hope they make sure they know what they want before they go. To that end, I will encourage international travel/volunteer work (like their mother did) BEFORE signing up for a major at university/college. I found my true passions abroad, then when it came time for university I didn't mess around with the drinking/partying crowd, I got credits for what I had already learned abroad (language, maths), and worked 20 hours/week on top of a full load to pay for my car and anything else. My parents paid my very low local tuition and books; I have X amount I hope to have set aside for each kid in the RESP when it's time, and they will be free to get scholarships/jobs/internships to make up the difference.
*We have one pay-as-you-go cell phone for emergencies. None of my kids have any electronic devices (iphone, ipod, tablet, laptop).
*We bought a house when we were already expecting our first based on my husband's salary & 1/2 of mine (what I would be paid on mat leave), not based on our great credit scores. Since we bought the house, we've both been promoted to higher-paying positions and have had four kids & four maternity leaves. It's an easy decision when we want another child because we know in advance we can afford the year off, since all expenses except groceries are essentially in 2007 dollars. We bought a house with enough room for the kids we wanted (5 bed/2 bath) so we wouldn't lose all our equity in realtor fees by upgrading every third year. It's not perfect, but we are ever-so-slowly redecorating it to our taste and maintaining the essentials. (And we're not replacing the white carpet that it came with until.........the kids mostly don't spill on it anymore.)
Our progress toward early retirement is certainly slower than if we had only one child, but our life is very full of joy. We are making steady progress, and that's what counts. I've been paying into my company pension plan for the past six years, but only in February opened my first RRSP. My husband just started with his company pension plan last March. We have some catching up to do, but we have a solid foundation. I'm hoping to pay off our mortgage in 15 years, and move on to the next phase of what our life will be like then (three oldest would be university-age). That timeline could alter based on if we have any more children. Pregnancy is getting harder every time, so for now we'll leave it as a question mark. I only know two other women at my job who have four kids; everyone else thinks I'm certifiable (I'm also one of the youngest there). They know what fun (and laundry! oh the laundry!) I go home to every day. In our other social circles, we have several friends with four or more, so I don't feel like an outlier except at work. And when the old ladies at the library start counting kids and ask if they're mine or daycare kids.
Rambles! Thanks for starting this thread. We're all in this thing together.
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It's not perfect, but we are ever-so-slowly redecorating it to our taste and maintaining the essentials. (And we're not replacing the white carpet that it came with until.........the kids mostly don't spill on it anymore.
Heh, I feel the same way about our house--we won't replace the carpets or refinish the hardwood floors until the youngest is at *least* 7 years old. Same will probably apply to the paint. We're also taking the slow-but-exactly-the-way-we-want approach to decorating and furnishing our home.
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Saturday, we had major scheduling issues:two soccer games (same location), friend's birthday party, bible quizzing for one, and piano competition for another. Four locations at the same time.
This Saturday, we have three locations at the same time (bee class and two soccer locations). I am not sure how to do this. How do you guys do this?!
This is the main reason I want to have a teenager car starting when the oldest is 16-so we can get everyone where they need to go.
Yes I've been through more than a decade of this. If you are an out- there networky kind of person, then you can try to organise lifts. I'm not, and felt anxious I would not be able to reciprocate, and all the extra organising this involved often put me over the edge. I was just careful about what activities we chose, and put limits on. If it was impossible then I used the word "no", but explained why. Tried to keep it fair. Sometimes we cut time at activities in half, so both could go to a portion (obviously this doesn't work for everything) . If they are performing see if they can be first or last. Sometimes they had to sit out each others activities. Sometimes I could drop one, then take the next one on, then double back to pick up the first one etc. My kids do their fair share of whinging and whining, but they by and large respected that it was impossible for me to be two places at once.
The greatest improvement in my quality of life has come with the oldest having his own car. He pays for all costs. I no longer have to ferry him around, and if necessary he can help out transporting his sister.
We rarely eat out, and as you guys would know taking lots of family out is really costly. I only recently realised that if I saved up my weekly sanity money for a meal out (I'm a bit of a lapsed foodie) and went without the kids, the bill at our local cafe for one person was doable as a special treat. I've been toting these kids around for so long, I'd forgotten to even think about doing things on my own.
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Hi all! We are a family of 6. DH and I are both 30 and our children are DS 6, DD 4, DS 3, and DD 9mo. We currently both work technically full time. I work for the federal govt (AF civilian) in finance and my husband works for UPS/cuts grass on the side. Having our schedule set up that way has helped us tremendously. My husband works at UPS unloading semis from 4am-8am. The pay is pretty good after 10 yrs ($18/hr) but the benefits are incredible. He *should* receive a pretty darn good pension after just 30 yrs (age 49) and the healthcare costs us about $400/yr out of pocket. Daughters $266 diaper rash prescription just cost us $0! Don't know how much longer we'll be able to ride that gravy train but it's a huge savings for us. My mom then comes over for a few hours till hubby gets home and on MWF stays with the kids all day for free. Thankfully she only charges in love, jk! DH takes care of their 1 acre property, I help my mom save money, and we feed them meals fairly often. Hubby is able to cut grass on the side three days a week and then stays home with the kids two days. It's not always pretty but to think about the amount we have saved in daycare is considerable.
Another big saver for us is annual consignment sales in our area and ebay. I volunteer for a group that raises money for the local childrens hospital. We have a sale in the fall and sale in the spring. I sell most of our stuff through these sales making around $500 each sale. I can then also find great deals on things we need (clothes, games, books, sporting equipment, Christmas presents even). I've scored deals like $100+ magnatiles sets for $7, bags of automoblox cars for $5, DDs beloved Kelli Kelly shoes. Rand new for $10! Anything nicer like ugg boots I bought my daughter at a garage sale for $10, wore for a year and then sold on ebay for $40. I make about $1200/yr selling their used stuff on ebay.
Our house fits us just right....4 bedroom, 2 bath ranch with a finished basement. We recently put a third full bathroom in the basement. DH did like others mentioned and jack hammered up the floor himself to plumb for it. We'll eventually finish the connecting room as our oldest decides he wants his own space. Probably cost $1k between drywall, carpet, and an egress window. Other than that our home is 100% remodeled as we've done slowly over the last 8 years here. Owe about $80k and it appraised at $209k before third bathroom, so maybe $215k now.
We also have 2 rental properties (so far) which have kind of been our college back up plan for the kids. The first one kind of fell into our laps as my mom is a realtor and the small local bank that owned it was begging to get it off their books. Second one popped up a year later. We figured if we had them on 15 yr mortgages, they'd be paid off by the time our oldest 2 went to college and would be outputting around 80% profit. We are still putting $125/kid in a 529 each month though and have for each kid since birth...
I feel like overall we live a pretty simple lifestyle.....eat out. Anne 2-3x/month now, buy half cow per year for $2.50/lb (grass fed), groceries around $100/wk, paid cash for 2007 suburban, 2012 ford f150, and 2003 Honda accord, don't really drink alcohol as it's too costly, very minimal cable ($43/mo) only because my mom doesn't know how to operate Apple TV), $50/yr magic jack, $20/mo high speed internet through AT&T, etc. our biggest expense though is the kids. Oldest son does some type of sport in the fall (either soccer, tennis or football), two sessions of YMCA basketball from oct-March), lacrosse in spring and swimming in the summer but he also does a father/son program through the YMCA hoping it would improve his behavior (one on one time) as well as destination imagination that they harp is so good for their development (and free due to me coaching). My oldest daughter does comp cheerleading and is going into her second year. It's a whopping $2800/yr though which is crazy. She loves it though and it's given her such self confidence where she started off soooo shy and now can stand in an arena with 5,000 watching her. We recently switched gyms though as the new one has some incredible fundraising opportunities (local aaa baseball games net about $100-$200/game/person, casino nights, bowling nights, spaghetti dinner, etc) so hopefully that can bring down cost. We also pay a lump sum at the start to save 10%. She also does soccer through YMCA and next year wants to do dance and Girl Scouts instead of soccer. Youngest DS is just starting YMCA soccer at 3. He's dying to be like the older kids so for $68, I guess.
We also take the kids to as many free learning opportunities as possible. We have an incredible park district, so the kids take some type of free class at least once per week. This week there was a parent and me class for the baby, a skunk walk for my 3 yr old, tennis for my 4 yr old and the oldest went to outdoor rec and made his own kite today. We ALS have one of the top libraries in the country so the kids go there to play education games, check out their activities, go to story hour, and of course check out books/movies/video games/CDs. We buy a museum family pass to go to often and also use reciprocating membership on other museums/zoos.
We do take a bigger family trip per year. This year is disney staying on property/ flying /food / souvenirs for $4k for 9 nights (pretty thrifty sadly enough) but normally we go to destin fl in sept. We split a condo with both sets of parents and it cost us all about $400/couple for the week. We drive and make most meals at the condo and bring along craft activities to do rather than spend $300 going to build a bear lol!
We camp in between trips to keep our sanity. This is also DH and I's date night a lot as we put the kids to bed about 8:30 and sit around the campfire talking till all hours of the night. We bought a pop up (with all the bells and whistles) for about 60% of what it was worth and paid cash. Figure we can use it a couple years and sell for what we paid.
As for cars/cell phone once the kids get older, DH is a big fan of paying for everything themselves. He started cutting grass at age 10 to pay for things and expects the same for our kids. He also bailed (sp?) hay on the weekends. He sometimes had to pay his parents bills to keep lights on, but he also bought a car, paid the insurance, paid for gas, paid for his clothes/activities/sports/school fees. So he's a big believer in the fact that if he could do it, so can they. They also have been taught from birth that 50% of all money they get goes into savings, 25% goes to charity, 25% to spend. Just using this principal they have about $8,000 combined. I'd personally like to use what they have saved together when oldest needs a car, we'll match what they have, and then all 4 have to share and work out a schedule. Teaches them respect, sharing, communication. But someone also pointed out to me that they could all 4 be in a car during an accident too, so I don't know what the answer is. I like the 3.6 gap or you don't drive idea!
Probably my biggest battle right now is spending money on myself. I'm a mother of four and only 30 yrs old. I spent $40/mo on weight watchers for 9 mo and dropped almost 30 lbs. none of my clothes fit and I'm living with the same three pairs of pants and maybe 10 shirts. I have no jewelry left the kids haven't broke. I have no makeup that wasn't expired and needed tossed. I'm sick of my hair being cut only twice a year. I keep reading frugal fashion blogs and makeup blogs and want to go out and buy it all. Thankfully with our schedule I don't have time to buy much, but still.....it's an area I want to spend more in but I know I really can't/shouldn't to meet our financial goals.
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One small tidbit i have started doing is my oldest son is my size now so have been giving him all my nicer hoodies and stuff and going to goodwill or getting the free stuff from our Soccer club. More and more small things like this I am discovering to do. And its not about affording it as much as it just make sense. I am comfortable in sweat pants and a flannel shirt or shorts and a t-shirt. They get the nicer stuff that i get and to no hurt to me.
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One small tidbit i have started doing is my oldest son is my size now so have been giving him all my nicer hoodies and stuff and going to goodwill or getting the free stuff from our Soccer club. More and more small things like this I am discovering to do. And its not about affording it as much as it just make sense. I am comfortable in sweat pants and a flannel shirt or shorts and a t-shirt. They get the nicer stuff that i get and to no hurt to me.
My son and I are doing this now too. He outgrew his Keen water sandals. They are still in good shape and fit me perfectly. Score!
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One small tidbit i have started doing is my oldest son is my size now so have been giving him all my nicer hoodies and stuff and going to goodwill or getting the free stuff from our Soccer club. More and more small things like this I am discovering to do. And its not about affording it as much as it just make sense. I am comfortable in sweat pants and a flannel shirt or shorts and a t-shirt. They get the nicer stuff that i get and to no hurt to me.
My son and I are doing this now too. He outgrew his Keen water sandals. They are still in good shape and fit me perfectly. Score!
I just got a pair of his like NEW tennis shoes. Hes a size 13 now and I am 11 so he gave me his 11.5's. Gotta love it!
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we've got five kids, my biggest money saver is that I'm so busy I dont have time to shop for anything unessential. sometimes I wish I had more time to buy nice clothes or furnishings or get my hair/nails done, but for the most part I'm fine without it. doesnt help that most of my friends/relatives/neighbors spend the bulk of their time/money on appearances. I think I need to move. or get new friends.
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we've got five kids, my biggest money saver is that I'm so busy I dont have time to shop for anything unessential. sometimes I wish I had more time to buy nice clothes or furnishings or get my hair/nails done, but for the most part I'm fine without it. doesnt help that most of my friends/relatives/neighbors spend the bulk of their time/money on appearances. I think I need to move. or get new friends.
I can relate to that! Enjoy your kids, let them waste money on things that are superficial. You will never regret the time spent with your kids!
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Following.
Only have one, and one on the way. But hoping for a large brood someday! :)
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I never regretted the time I spent as a SAHM. The time went fast & I still had plenty of time for my career, etc. My pension is much smaller then some of my friends that kept working but it was worth it. I have 3 kids that all are grown now.
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well now that school is over I will officially have 2 in High School coming up (a Freshman and Sophomore) then a 5th and 3rd grader! The High School years though fun in many ways gets cancelled out so much by the teenager " I know more than you" attitudes. Fortunately so far they are good students! and there good at everyone elses house just not ours! lol
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We have three kiddos (6,5,3) and I'm not sure we're actually "doing it" but I'm trying. :) It is so inspiring to see bigger families that are achieving FI/ER.
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Where we are from our family of 6 isn't large. I have friends with as many as 13 children but most have between 6-8. :)
Anyway we have 4 children ages 20 , 6, 4, and 2. I'm a SAHM and we homeschool too. My DH is in the military but will be getting out soon due to medical retirement. I've always been a frugal person by nature and my DH not so much. We live in a 4 bedroom 2.5 bath 2100 sq ft home. Sadly the layout isn't right for us but there is plenty of room for us all to have space without being on top of each other all day. My younger children aren't in any activities as life seems to center around our home life and therapy 3 times per week for our 4yo son who is autistic and mostly non-verbal.
We are helping to foot the bill for our oldest to attend a private college but we play around $2500 a semester. The rest is covered by a partial scholarship, grants and student loans. Basically we pay whatever is left after all of that has been applied to her account. We have told her that since she choose a private out college once the money in her college fund is gone she will need to pay the rest herself through more loans or working during the school year not just during the summers for her spending money.
We are saving now for our younger 3 children but that money isn't just for college. It's also for more expensive things they may want to do when they are teens and for braces. We don't pay for cars, insurance, cell phones, or give spending money...well unless there has been some type of emergency and help is needed.
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Where we are from our family of 6 isn't large. I have friends with as many as 13 children but most have between 6-8. :)
Anyway we have 4 children ages 20 , 6, 4, and 2. I'm a SAHM and we homeschool too. My DH is in the military but will be getting out soon due to medical retirement. I've always been a frugal person by nature and my DH not so much. We live in a 4 bedroom 2.5 bath 2100 sq ft home. Sadly the layout isn't right for us but there is plenty of room for us all to have space without being on top of each other all day. My younger children aren't in any activities as life seems to center around our home life and therapy 3 times per week for our 4yo son who is autistic and mostly non-verbal.
We are helping to foot the bill for our oldest to attend a private college but we play around $2500 a semester. The rest is covered by a partial scholarship, grants and student loans. Basically we pay whatever is left after all of that has been applied to her account. We have told her that since she choose a private out college once the money in her college fund is gone she will need to pay the rest herself through more loans or working during the school year not just during the summers for her spending money.
We are saving now for our younger 3 children but that money isn't just for college. It's also for more expensive things they may want to do when they are teens and for braces. We don't pay for cars, insurance, cell phones, or give spending money...well unless there has been some type of emergency and help is needed.
I just informed my two oldest yesterday(because they often talk about going to a private college in our area) about even after what we are willing to pay how much more there debt would be. We have great State Schools so hopefully as the get just a bit older they will see the light. I only say that because our State School really is a better school than the private school the keep talking about and half the price.
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Still have not convinced the on the whole mmm thing. Saving money has Been second nature to me. As a compromise my children has agreed to a cheaper vacation(tent camp by 1 hour from home) and also going to deluxe theatre on Tuesday where seats are 5 dollars. But hey 10 dollars at a time right? I buy my cars used off craigslist for cash. Had all the kids while the US health insurance was good. Luckily no complicated pregnancies or health issues. The house we bought was not a great buy but we can walk/bike to the major places we need to get to (library/bank/grocery/Cvs). Buy the kids clothes mostly at kohls when they are 80 per cent off and then get addled 20 per cent off with coupons. Cheaper than most places and the two kids can wear the same stuff. Also bought a cow from local butcher and csa share and shop at Costco. Try to always get gas there too. Buy food sometimes from fare for all. Try to get scholarships for activities where I can. Free kindle books. Making kids brush teeth so no high dental bills. Good hygiene goes a long way. Getting deals on Amazon for bedroom furniture for daughter. Cooking at home. Using restaurant.com for eating out when we do go out. Doing our own yard work but paid for lawn service ( actually was cheaper than fit). Keeping what we do have in good shape. I am going to try the laundry line this week. I usually try to do all the loads consecutively so the dryer doesn't need to heat up again. Getting my corporate discounts when I can for tickets to water park, going on the cheap days to these things, using lottery system for chance at free concert tickets to local orchestra. It all adds up. Don't pay interest other than mortgage. Zulilly for deals on soccer gear.
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We have four children--teens on down.
I'm a SAHM. We're doing okay financially, nothing to complain about. Our children are interested in music, dance, and scouting. We have one child who is interested in sports, but we refuse to continually run her to play sports due to practices, games, etc. interfering with our home life, eating meals together, etc. She can play one sport. She seems to be of the impression that this is a way to hang around with her friends and try and look pretty. :) We dislike organizations (government, religious, business, or otherwise) that continually try to break up families by "taking" family time away from families.
We cook meals at home--mostly from scratch. We shop sale items and stock up. We like Costco and shop there occasionally.
We have a four-bedroom older home that sits on an acre of land. It is paid for.
We have three vehicles--paid for and run great.
We have two special needs kiddos. One has some fairly high medical bills. Our insurance, for the most part, is pretty good.
The one thing I cannot give up is travel. We love being at home, but enjoy having a week elsewhere. But, as I mentioned in another post, our culture is "made for four and no more" (in all areas). So, when we travel, we typically need to split up into two rooms if staying at a hotel. We are taking a trip to Disney within the next year. We would not be going if we didn't have the money saved for it. We also went to Disneyland last year--loved it. A few years back we travelled to Hawaii. Travel as a family is one of our largest expenses.
As far as college, we have some saved up for each child, but not fully funded. Our children will need to contribute, plain and simple. Neither my husband or I believe in just handing them an education. They are all capable and will need to contribute.
We love having a "large" family. I would of gladly had more, but hubby said he would like to retire someday--hahahahaha.
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Thought I'd put it to you all, who really know how it is with many kids-
We have a just-barely-two year old. Our second is due in 1 week!
We have to buy a second car (it will take the place of a borrowed family car). We already own a 2012 Hyundai elantra sedan.
We'd like a third and probably fourth child eventually, with probably not too much more than 2-3 years between each one. (I want a fifth someday but shhhh...).
Should we make do with the Hyundai for now, and buy a small, cheap-as-possible commuter for my husband, or buy the larger "family vehicle" now, before we actually have a true need?
The mpg of minivans (we'd look at a honda odyssey probably) is horrifyingly low, but it would last us through as many kids as I can imagine having. Also: sliding doors, omg.
A prius would be perfect for my husbands commute now (over an hour) and could potentially squeeze in a 3rd car seat down the line to extend the time til we HAVE to get a big car.
I'd love an a SUV but they still have a three-seats-across issue and Mpgs are not great, especially for the larger ones which would have a 3rd row option. Not to mention they are generally out of our price range.
I wish we were facing this decision in a year or two, but we have to buy a car now. I can't see through all the factors to see what makes the most sense. Help!! Very frustrated having to make such a long-term decision when we are in a transitional time with our family, and all our projections for our future family are just plans/hopes/dreams.
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I would say to definitely wait until you have a genuine need before buying a bigger vehicle. Buy something little and inexpensive that you can resell later, when you've actually given birth to future hoped-for children :-)
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I would say to definitely wait until you have a genuine need before buying a bigger vehicle. Buy something little and inexpensive that you can resell later, when you've actually given birth to future hoped-for children :-)
Thanks, 1967mama! I admit this is my instinct, it just feel weird to buy a car that we will have to turn around a sell again in 2-3 years. I have always seen car purchases as long term things, but I guess I just have to get over that!
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You're welcome! And I should have added "used" to little and inexpensive <wink>. We have moved up, up, up in cars from a Civic, to a minivan, to a suburban to a 15 passenger -- yep, big family!
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I would say to definitely wait until you have a genuine need before buying a bigger vehicle. Buy something little and inexpensive that you can resell later, when you've actually given birth to future hoped-for children :-)
Agreed with this. Get the cheap commuter now, and in 2-3 (or 4-5) years, sell that and get a minivan. Let someone else pay for the depreciation :) Oh, and it's hard to go wrong with a Honda minivan (we've owned two!)
(we just had our 6th a few weeks ago)
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Hello. We have an 11, 7 and 3 year old.
The eldest does a lot of riding (cue clown car for towing)
The second does ballet. 1 and 2 learn piano at school.
The littlest doesn't have a hobby yet apart from dismantling the vacuum cleaner.
They have a bedroom each, I am trying to convince DH we should sell up and live in a mobile home but so far no luck.
We both work full time.
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Thanks for starting this thread. It's really helpful for larger families to share tips. I am a long time lurker and new poster. We have 4 kids (18,17,14,13 years old). We move every 3 years or so which is good for the kids and hard on them. Sometimes our houses are larger or smaller. Interestingly, sometimes our family is perceived as 'rich' and other times our family is perceived as 'poor' depending on where we are living. It is good for the kids to think about this and talk about it. They have different and varying amounts of outside of school activities -- each has different needs and personalities. Their needs for stimulation have changed as they have aged. Here are some things that we have done to improve family life and save money...
--we go to a lot of museums/field trips on the weekends. As a 'Friend of the Public Library' (cost $15) we get museum passes for free.
-- we spend a lot of time outside together. Going to the beach (we live in Mass.) in all seasons and walking in the woods. When kids were little the wee ones were in the backpack
-- cooking from scratch and seldom eating out. Sometimes takeout. Homemade pizza is cheap but it is also easy to do with store bought pizza dough (which can live in the freezer for a bit)
-- kids generally have one activity at a time and we carpool if possible. In one town the kids were able to walk to their activities. That was completely awesome and to be recommended!
-- we have 2 getting their drivers licenses now. We have told them that we would like them to 'buy' into the 2nd car -- $1000 for each kid. Kids have saved allowance money/birthday money, etc. I think they will take better care of the car if they have skin in the game.
-- Very interestingly, DH wanted to get our older son his own Playstation. I was adamantly against this for several years. Quietly, this topic kept resurfacing so finally I suggested that if our son really wanted this machine, he should pay $300 in to it. Hubbie thought this a good suggestion and offered it to our boy. No Way! That killed the requests. We have learned a good lesson here with this child.
-- Also interestingly, my brother in law has a teen daughter who is always late in the morning (teens should have their own thread!). Anyway, one morning she missed the school bus and her Dad drove her to school. He was livid but quiet. He is self employed and told her that this drive was wasting his time and costing him money. He needed her to pay him $10 (big money to a 15 yo). She was outraged -- part of his fatherly duty, unfair, she didn't know, etc. She paid him right then and she has never missed the bus again. Sometimes it is easier to reach kids through money, it's very interesting.
-- College saving -- we are going to pay for it and have saved almost 2 years of tuition for each kid. Will cashflow the rest.
Thanks for starting this thread. Since it's Thanksgiving morning, I have to get going with the kitchen faerie routine. I hope everyone has a great day.
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We've got three girls (15, 12, and 5) and I don't think of us as a "large" family but we officially qualify as one in Slovenia, where we live. Our condo is only 72 m2 (roughly 800 ft2) of living space and all three kids share one bedroom. The master bedroom is dual purpose and serves as a home office too. We do have a garden, a garage, and storage units in the basement, so our living space isn't as cramped as you might think. It does keep us from buying useless junk.
I agree with the poster above who mentioned meal planning: we go even farther than that and print a weekly schedule that has everyone's work times, school times, activity times, extra events (dentist appointments, concerts, etc.), and who's taking the little one to school and picking her up, as well as who's cooking dinner each night and what the menu is. All of this planning takes me around 2 hours every Sunday, but it sure makes the week more pleasant. Both parents work outside the home part-time and do consulting work from home; both of us cook and both of us do kid pickups as necessary, so we just plan a schedule that works best for everyone.
Because we live in a compact European city the older two get themselves around by bike, bus, or scooter (the non-motorized kind!). So do the adults -- we use our single car, which is a Toyota Verso (a roomy hatchback somewhat like a Mazda 5) sparingly (mostly for trips).
-Z
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We have 4 boys (11, 8, 5, 2).
We live on a single income, though I have started turning a hobby into a small income-generating business. It is slow going, since I am often solo-parenting and don't have a lot of time for it at the moment. DH works long hours and has been out of town for the last couple of months (talk that he won't be home until March). He now makes a good income after investing a few years of labour, but his job wears on him.
We have a small 3 bedroom home and our mortgage is around $150,000. We just purchased in 2013.
We have two vehicles (one is definitely surplus and unnecessary) and a motorcycle. One vehicle and the motorcycle we own, but the unnecessary vehicle is financed. We purchased it as a commuter vehicle for DH shortly before he was promoted to a position that included a company truck. We still don't see eye to eye about what to do with the car.
Frankly, I'm tired. I see people with four+ kids doing a much better job than I am doing and I feel inadequate. I've been parenting for almost 12 years, but I still feel like I'm not doing it right.
Financially, we have very little prepared for them at this time. $2,500 in a group RESP. I would like to be able to pitch in for their post secondary, but they are aware that they are expected to work and save for a bulk of their education as well.
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Frankly, I'm tired. I see people with four+ kids doing a much better job than I am doing and I feel inadequate. I've been parenting for almost 12 years, but I still feel like I'm not doing it right.
You know what? You're a parent. You'll always be tired! :P
My wife thought she was drowning when she had 2 kids. Now she has 6 under the age of 10, and is homeschooling the oldest four. It seems our capacity increases to the level which is required.
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Frankly, I'm tired. I see people with four+ kids doing a much better job than I am doing and I feel inadequate. I've been parenting for almost 12 years, but I still feel like I'm not doing it right.
You know what? You're a parent. You'll always be tired! :P
My wife thought she was drowning when she had 2 kids. Now she has 6 under the age of 10, and is homeschooling the oldest four. It seems our capacity increases to the level which is required.
I AM tired! I just read that as "You know what? You're pregnant." Not "You know what? You're a parent."
And my heart.actually.stopped. LOL
As though it was possible, and as though you would know before me! Still, gave me a fright.
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Frankly, I'm tired. I see people with four+ kids doing a much better job than I am doing and I feel inadequate. I've been parenting for almost 12 years, but I still feel like I'm not doing it right.
I hear ya. I think most of us feel this way at least some of the time. Personally, I'd stop looking at those 'other people' who seem to be doing 'better', because you never really know. Sure some of them might be doing better in some ways, but none of us lives 100% the same lives as each other, so we're never comparing apples with apples.
For instance, my SIL works insane hours and runs marathons, continuing her sports through two pregnancies, including one with complications. I could look at her and go 'shit, what am *I* doing with my life?' But because she's my SIL I'm privy to other parts of her life that make me go 'well, at least I don't have to deal with that'. Conversely, I'm certain she looks at my life of SAHM, homeschooling, self-directed days, and no external motivators like bonuses or employee of the month awards, and considers that she is the one who dodged a bullet :-)
But even on a lesser scale, if I look at my friends who are doing essentially the same job as me during the day, we all have different things that we do 'well', and different priorities, and different strengths. There's the mum who doesn't even have internet at home and whose children are always impeccably groomed and can all cook meals and clean house, but whose kids all need to follow a set curriculum because she struggles with the 'creative learning' stuff. There's the mum who always seems to be doing great art projects, but whose housekeeping is... erratic. There's the mum who always bakes fresh bread, even with a kitchen renovation project underway, and provides home cooked meals every single night, but who severely limits extra-curricular activities because she can't keep up with them all. There's the mum who finds that she can pick 2 out of the 3 main tasks she has to do well (homeschooling, cleaning, cooking) and the other 1 just has to wait until next week, and some days just ends up on facebook wishing they'd all go away :) (that's me - can you tell?).
And we all have a tendency to compare our own weaknesses with another person's strengths, because those things are visible.
Honestly, if you're raising 4 boys with a mostly absent husband, and you're all still alive at the end of the day, you're doing a great job.
that turned into an essay, but the tldr is - you're doing ok, have an internet hug {hug}
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Honestly, if you're raising 4 boys with a mostly absent husband, and you're all still alive at the end of the day, you're doing a great job.
Story of my wife's life lol!
Everyone slept through the night last night, including the baby and the two sick boys. We're all feeling *much* better today!
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what a fun thread!
We are a family of 6, with children ages 7, 6, 4 and 18 months. We live a pretty mustachian lifestyle, if not moreso by necessity then choice.
i work OTH FT and DH works from home. he has a small farm, with sheep, chickens and a large (1 acre) garden. Kids are homeschooled. I have had several extended maternity leaves (was in school when dd1 was born, so she came with me to class for 4 months, then I took a year off to be at home), but with that is a ton of SL debt. I'm lookng forward to my first "real" job this spring and getting those loans taken care of. Our plan is to live small, kill the loans and then live small another year to jump start the savings.
We love the more rural, homestead kind of life. Kids play and work outside every day. we have just a very small farm (more of a big yard, really) at 2.5 acres but for now its enough. we have done the usual breastfed, cloth diaper, used clothes, meals from scratch, meal planning, used and paid for cars, no cable, lots of library books, zoo passes for christmas gifts and travel is limited to visiting family. (although, they live in beautiful places, so I can't really complain.)
Food is a big expense (our small midwest town is very low COL, so housing is very affordable). Our milk is delivered from a local farmer. We buy in bulk, beef and pork by the half-beast. We butcher our own chickens and have enough eggs to sell the extra to pay for all the chicken food. Looking forward to culling the lambs for some tasty meat later this winter. Still eating our garden produce...potatoes, onions, carrots, garlic going strong. tons of canned and frozen tomatoes, green beans, berries, zucchini and pumpkin. I buy from co-ops (Azure STandard, Country Life Natural Foods) for better prices on bulk staples. no costco here and I don't know, really, what I would buy at sams.
The older kids have activities. Ballet for DD1, soccer for DS1 and swim lessions for the older 3. we like to bike and hike and camp and be outside. we live in the county (hence the animals), on a very narrow but speedy road, so no biking from home just yet. My ideal homestead would be a few more acres...backing up to a trail that would take us to town. :) haha. but not sure we will find that anytime soon.
I feel like I dont' have much to add, in the way of good ideas. But I do love reading all the others! One of my big questions and concerns is how to teach my children to be frugal by nature, to respect money for the tool it is, to not worship it but rather work hard to earn and save and be content. any advice?
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Seems like a lot of homeschoolers on MMM!
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This was just the post that I was looking for! We are a homeschooling family with 4 kids (11, 9, 4 and 4). I love hearing all the ideas. We do many of them. I would love ideas for how to get your electric bill down when you live in sunny Arizona like we do! We spend 700-800 a month in food. We sound just like a lot of you! I am glad to know you all are out there.
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We keep back and forthing over homeschooling. Our oldest boy has some sensory processing issues and it seems like the school environment just isn't working well for him - he's nearly 7. The problem is a lack of 1) local resources and community to support homeschooling, 2) confidence in our abilities not to screw it all up, and 3) openings in the local schooling system, meaning if he wanted to go back into the system he would struggle. The schools are heavily overcrowded and people sit on huge waiting lists. It's quite a dilemma for us. Also we don't have much space where we are to give him the homeschooling experience we'd ideally like.
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We keep back and forthing over homeschooling. Our oldest boy has some sensory processing issues and it seems like the school environment just isn't working well for him - he's nearly 7. The problem is a lack of 1) local resources and community to support homeschooling, 2) confidence in our abilities not to screw it all up, and 3) openings in the local schooling system, meaning if he wanted to go back into the system he would struggle. The schools are heavily overcrowded and people sit on huge waiting lists. It's quite a dilemma for us. Also we don't have much space where we are to give him the homeschooling experience we'd ideally like.
All the worries go away if you take the time to plan :) I have some good friends who do their homeschooling outside at a picnic table when the weather's nice. Our oldes (10) is high-functioning autistic, with the attendant sensory issues. Even the school, which did have the space and the resources, wasn't the best learning environment for him.
WRT the waiting lists--what are they for? They can't be to get into the schools--is it to get into a preferred school?
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We keep back and forthing over homeschooling. Our oldest boy has some sensory processing issues and it seems like the school environment just isn't working well for him - he's nearly 7. The problem is a lack of 1) local resources and community to support homeschooling, 2) confidence in our abilities not to screw it all up, and 3) openings in the local schooling system, meaning if he wanted to go back into the system he would struggle. The schools are heavily overcrowded and people sit on huge waiting lists. It's quite a dilemma for us. Also we don't have much space where we are to give him the homeschooling experience we'd ideally like.
WRT the waiting lists--what are they for? They can't be to get into the schools--is it to get into a preferred school?
No that's for normal English language schools. We have a severe capacity problem and family of ours who live 2 minutes from another local primary have been just told that they won't be able to get in so they don't know what to do.
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We keep back and forthing over homeschooling. Our oldest boy has some sensory processing issues and it seems like the school environment just isn't working well for him - he's nearly 7. The problem is a lack of 1) local resources and community to support homeschooling, 2) confidence in our abilities not to screw it all up, and 3) openings in the local schooling system, meaning if he wanted to go back into the system he would struggle. The schools are heavily overcrowded and people sit on huge waiting lists. It's quite a dilemma for us. Also we don't have much space where we are to give him the homeschooling experience we'd ideally like.
WRT the waiting lists--what are they for? They can't be to get into the schools--is it to get into a preferred school?
No that's for normal English language schools. We have a severe capacity problem and family of ours who live 2 minutes from another local primary have been just told that they won't be able to get in so they don't know what to do.
Ah, I didnt realize you're not US-based.
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Our third is on the way in fall 2015, so I'm watching this thread with much interest!! We also have a 5yo daughter and 1.5yo son. We've worked really hard over the last ten years to develop a decent stash. Now I'm trying to get more creative to reduce our spending enough that I can ditch full-time office work, and the associated daycare and out-of-school care payments, and the daily commute and grind. I want to spend more time with my kids and my husband!!
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Glad to see this thread pop up again. We have four under age seven, and it is good for sanity and perspective to see that others are both tired and finding ways to make it work.
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This is a great thread.
We have three boys, 13, 7 and 3. The thing that's helped us the most is limiting extracurricular kid activities. They take swimming lessons and do sports at school, but hardly any other activities that would require driving anywhere on evenings or weekends. It's just too hard for me to pick our oldest up from sports in the evening when the 3 year old needs to be in bed (my husband works nights). Our boys spend most of their time playing in the neighbourhood with their friends and going to the library on their bikes.
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Our third is on the way in fall 2015, so I'm watching this thread with much interest!! We also have a 5yo daughter and 1.5yo son. We've worked really hard over the last ten years to develop a decent stash. Now I'm trying to get more creative to reduce our spending enough that I can ditch full-time office work, and the associated daycare and out-of-school care payments, and the daily commute and grind. I want to spend more time with my kids and my husband!!
We're the same - 2 kids, hoping to quit the rat-race soon so spend more time with the kids (more babies planned as well).
I would also suggest working on side-hustles that you can ramp up/down as needed once you quit your day jobs - if you need to supplement your stash income at any point.
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Yay! Glad to have found this thread. We only have one right now, but we definitely want 4 or 5 eventually. I really, really love the mustachian ideals and the idea of FI, but basically all the places I read about it, they describe situations with one kid at most, and I've had a hard time visualizing what saving so much with more kids would look like.
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Yay! Glad to have found this thread. We only have one right now, but we definitely want 4 or 5 eventually. I really, really love the mustachian ideals and the idea of FI, but basically all the places I read about it, they describe situations with one kid at most, and I've had a hard time visualizing what saving so much with more kids would look like.
Well, to be honest, it's a trade off. Kids are definitely expensive, so you might change your mind about 4or 5 by the time you have one or two.
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Well, my commitment is kids first and then money, so I do understand that it's a tradeoff. I figure even if we don't end up being able to retire super early, I want to use Mustachian ideals to reduce the costs of a family and make sure we're on safe financial footing in the long run. But it might be easier for me since I'm just generally frugal by nature - I've never wanted a big house, and I'm the type of kid who saved up $300 by the time I was 12, so . . .
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GREAT THREAD!
Thanks for starting! Learning some stuff!! Didn’t know there were so many of us!
6 tax credits here. 10, 7, 5/5 (twins), 3, 10mo. I am 38, DW 36.
It is a HOOT.
DW and I both from reasonably large families (9/6) and lots of experience with large families (up to 12 kids).
Large families vary in fiscal philosophy/responsibility just like everyone else. We know large families sucking on the government teat while lazy daddy plays WoW. And large families making $300k+/yr splashing out on big house, cars, vaca, etc.
We do it MMM-style; with a few exceptions.
Homeschool. Big commitment, small expense. No regrets thus far.
Food: After trying many systems, we don’t overthink this. Stock up every 3-4 weeks, staples only, little to no ‘packaged foods’. Bread freezes fine, 73% ground beef is under $3/lb and has billions of good calories (fat is GOOD!). Kroger points and 6% Amex card. Boom! Grocery bill is consistent at 600-700/mo.
House: 2,000sq ft, 3/2/2, paid $175k in 2009, 30yr 4%. Total utilities (gas/elec/water/sewer/trash) 200-300/mo. Triple bunk beds. Kicker is the big pool, provides endless hours of entertainment and good chores for the older kids. Dual-flush toilets!! Paid for themselves very quickly.
Clothing: minimal. Thrift stores. People give us endless clothes as well.
Work: FT as mid management. DW runs the house and works PT ($2k/yr) as fitness instructor, more a hobby than anything else.
Purchases: Every one is thought out. This is the big saver.
Clutter: Hate it. Stuff creeps in anyway. I go through the house every month and declutter. Charitable donations!
Cars: non-Mustachian bad habit. 3 nice late-model cars. 1 family van, 2 toys. Not many miles…. I just love ‘em, more than some of my kids…. I jest.
Vacations: cheap camping and VRBO. We visit fam/friends and tent camp in their yards, kid you not. Haha! 1-2 times a year we splash out on a week somewhere through VRBO
Kid management: simple, discipline, consistence. A challenge for everyone. But we do NOT have ‘terrible twos’ etc. We’ll see what happens when puberty hits!
Kid finance: We pay performance-based allowance every week: behavior, chores, school. They bank half into Vanguard, pay for their own clothes (yes!) and can spend the rest. At age 6 they know the value of a buck.
Our finance: we live on 35-50k/yr (good year/bad year). Savings rate 50-75%. NW about $650k now. Aiming for 1.5-2M. Annual review. Long term: Hawaii-bound.
GOOD LUCK ALL!!
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6 tax credits here. 10, 7, 5/5 (twins), 3, 10mo. I am 38, DW 36.
It is a HOOT.
DW and I both from reasonably large families (9/6) and lots of experience with large families (up to 12 kids).
Large families vary in fiscal philosophy/responsibility just like everyone else. We know large families sucking on the government teat while lazy daddy plays WoW. And large families making $300k+/yr splashing out on big house, cars, vaca, etc.
We do it MMM-style; with a few exceptions.
Homeschool. Big commitment, small expense. No regrets thus far.
Food: After trying many systems, we don’t overthink this. Stock up every 3-4 weeks, staples only, little to no ‘packaged foods’. Bread freezes fine, 73% ground beef is under $3/lb and has billions of good calories (fat is GOOD!). Kroger points and 6% Amex card. Boom! Grocery bill is consistent at 600-700/mo.
...
Kid finance: We pay performance-based allowance every week: behavior, chores, school. They bank half into Vanguard, pay for their own clothes (yes!) and can spend the rest. At age 6 they know the value of a buck.
Wow, we're in very similar situations! We've got 6 as well (oldest is 11, youngest is 1), homeschool, very little spent on clothes, just a few years younger than you guys. Although our grocery budget is significantly higher ($900-$1k/mo), our overall spending is similar. All 4 of our boys are in one bedroom, in two sets of bunks.
Can you share more details about your performance-based allowance system? Our kids are still figuring out how money works, and I'm always interested in hearing how others handle it.
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We have 5 & homeschool as well. I see a pattern.
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I am loving this thread! I have three kids, ages 5, 3 and 10mo. Hoping for more. I'm 33 and DH is 33 too. We live in Canada and have a 10 acre hobby farm 25 minutes from a major city. We raise all our own meat and eggs. Beef, pork, chicken. This was the first year for beef actually. We have a diet with minimal grains and processed food so having our own meat supply is amazing for cost savings not to mention th health aspects of totally clean etc. Our 100% grass fed beef comes in at $2 per pound including everything. I make huge batches of broth every week from our chicken bones and use this for soup all winter. We heat with wood, and this winter has been pretty mild but the last two were consistently -20 degrees Celcius and colder day and night. We buy truck loads of logs and my husband cuts and splits it all so it comes to $40 per cord this way as opposed to $100 delivered and split by someone else. We use up to 15 per winter but our furnace literally never comes on unless we are out of town for a night or two. We have two super high efficiency wood stoves. One on each end of the Building. We put these in ourselves so the upfront cost was huge but we are planning to stay here till we are old, haha.
Our kids are still pretty little so activities are minimal. We go to church every Sunday. We will not let any activity in the future usurp that, even hockey ;) oldest child takes piano and excels at it, and next child will start in Sept and will see how it goes. No sports yet but it's coming as my husband was a super athlete through high school and university and sports are very important to him. we did swimming lessons at the local outdoor pool in the summer. Will do that again this summer. Swimming and skating are skills we want all our kids equipped with, but other than that, we don't know how exactly we will manage extracurriculars.
We are nowhere near FI. Our goals for 2016 are to buy no meat (it's already all in the freezer it just takes planning, you know?), and keep groceries under $600 a month. Are you laughing?? And if so, because that's low or high?? Haha. Out biggest expenses are food and fuel. Our house is paid off. But we have nothing saved aside from an emergency fund and a chunk in an education savings account that was gifted by family. We have been renovating our home since we moved in 2.5 years ago and it's now DONE so we are planning to ramp up savings this year. I am working on numbers and projections and it's really all very exciting!!
hoping others come along and keep this thread going because it's interesting to learn from other families that are still growing or have more than the usual 1 or 2 kids and are into the teen years and beyond....
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15 cords! Wow! Even with two woodstoves, you'd have to almost be burning constantly to achieve that, wouldn't you? I burn through 2-3 cords & 600 gallons of propane in a Louisville winter, but I don't make much effort to burn overnight. I just have the thermostat set rather low, and everyone has electric mattress pads. Waking up is hard to do, and my wife will just turn up the thermostat in the morning when she is cold; but it's a programmable that will return to the program after 2 hours or so. Our 3 year old is the only one without a heated mattress pad, because no one makes one for a toddler bed, but if she gets cold she will just come cuddle with Momma anyway.
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Well, we're not, yet :) We have 12 month old twin boys, but want two more kids, so I'm very curious about other large and frugal families.
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Yes, 15 cords! Not this year, maybe on the 8th or so by now, so won't get to 12 even, but at -20C average most of all of the last two winters and not using any other heat sources, we did burn that much. We have an oil furnace I think I mentioned but it only comes on when we're away in the winter. Oil also fires the hot water tank. I use the child gate around the stand alone wood stove to dry a lot of things. I mean aside from the obvious snowsuits, gloves, boots etc for kids. I use it like a winter clothesline and sometimes set up other drying racks in the room overnight too. We run a ceiling fan in the vicinity of both wood stoves to push the warm air around the house. I have electric baseboard heaters just in the two kids rooms but I only turn them on about 2 or 3 nights all winter - usually only if we've been out for the afternoon on a really cold day, so the fires haven't warmed the upstairs yet by bedtime. The kids have duvets and footed pyjamas and my husband and I like sleeping in our cold room :-)
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I strongly recommend the electric mattress pads. I have a matched set made by BeautyRest, so that the controllers are interchangeable, because the mattress pads themselves only last about 3 winters. They max out at 25 watts or so, so not exactly high cost, and I usually only keep my side on for about 20 minutes while I'm getting ready for bed. My wife will keep her's going all night long, at about 15 watts, but she is cold blooded. They make climbing into a warmed bed from a chill room downright luxurious. I originally bought them because my daughter's room was freezing, as it is the farthest from both the woodstove and the central furnace. I had been keeping a portable electric heater in her room, and was looking for a cheaper solution. After I got it for her, my daughter started complaining that my wife was taking naps in her bed; so I bought a queen mattress pad for our bed (two controllers on that one). Then my teenaged son complained that his room was cold also. Now the complaint is that their rooms are too cold to get out of bed in the mornings.
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Hello!
We are a family of 6 with 4 boys (ages 13, 10, 6, and 3). DH came from a family of 6 and I came from a family of 9.
It seems like a lot of larger families home school and are Christian! Am I imagining it? My kids go to public school, and this fall our youngest will enter JK. I know that we have been lucky to have the option for me to stay home with the kids, but I am looking forward to a life outside the home soon.
We have 2 mortgages on 2 properties. The first was our starter home, which we bought in 2013. That mortgage/property tax is paid by the tenants and is currently scheduled to be paid off in about 17 years (although we plan to make some lump sum payments to accelerate that). At that time we will determine if we want to retain the property as a passive income, or sell and pay off the mortgage on our principle residence and/or pad our retirement.
We have never done allowances, though our oldest just took on a paper route and is funneling all of the money directly into a savings account. He is very money-conscious and frugal, and is highly motivated to save for post secondary education. We took our oldest two to the bank last month to open their own savings accounts.
We had paid off all outstanding debts outside of our mortgage this month. Finally! We are a single income family, although I have a side hustle and recently took on some very part time work.
DH previously had a great pension, but switched positions and doesn't have it anymore. We started an RSP this month using our LOC, so once we pay that back down we will be contributing as aggressively as we can to our retirement savings.
We are still fairly new to MMM, and I am more mustachian then DH. He is actually not very mustachian at all, but I am trying to work on him.
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Hello!
We are a family of 6 with 4 boys (ages 13, 10, 6, and 3). DH came from a family of 6 and I came from a family of 9.
It seems like a lot of larger families home school and are Christian! Am I imagining it?
That is definitely not your imagination.
though our oldest just took on a paper route and is funneling all of the money directly into a savings account.
Open a Roth IRA in his name immediately. Have him put everything he would like to save, and not spend this year, into that account, and I do mean everything.
DH previously had a great pension, but switched positions and doesn't have it anymore.
Wait, what? Are you saying he lost it? How?
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Kid finance: We pay performance-based allowance every week: behavior, chores, school. They bank half into Vanguard, pay for their own clothes (yes!) and can spend the rest. At age 6 they know the value of a buck.
I'm going to put in a second request for a detailed breakdown of this. (Maybe on its own thread - but post back here so we get notified?)
THANKS!
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We have 7 kids from ages 3 to 15, I'm 39 and my wife is 37. It is great and tiring at the same time! The kids are a lot of fun and I wouldn't trade any of them.
But has anyone retired early with a lot of kids at home? I would like to hear how you did it. I think that we could almost do it within 2 years, but our life is incredibly expensive and I am almost too anxious to consider it. Most kids that are old enough play an instrument and participate in sports=$. Seems like someone is always getting injured=$ (broken foot last week, broken scapula 2 months ago, etc) Future college=$$$. Some gluten free kids=$. We buy organic/raw/natural foods=$. Health insurance without my job would be very expensive. We try to raise some of our own food but we are terrible gardeners! Nothing seems to grow except for lettuce, cucumbers and tons of weeds. My wife doesn't want to use non-organic fertilizer--only the real stuff and I don't have connections to get manure. :( I know I'm a waaa waa complainy-pants.
Now for the good: Overall I think we are pretty careful. Our 3 cars have 610k miles between them and a collective value of <10k. I do most of the car maintenance and have been teaching our older kids how to do it. Our house is big but utilities aren't bad and the mortgage payment is less than our grocery bill.
We have the kids doing most of the cleaning around the house as part of a regimented chore system. They do all the dishes! We have also been using an allowance based incentive system that my bro-in-law came up with. It has different levels of allowance and privilege that the children can attain based on behavior and chore completion. It is amazing to see kids doing chores without having to nag them.
I have a well-paying job and have been able to acquire some rental properties that could almost finance our living at this point.
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It looks like most of your kids are in the "old enough to be useful stage, which is great." Can any of them start side hustles to earn money to pay for their own extracurriculars? Lawn mowing? Snow shoveling? Babysitting? What are you trying to accomplish with the activities? Socialization? Preprofessional training? Developing a nice hobby and spending time with friends? Private piano lessons are nice, but if you want an inexpensive, portable and fun hobby, between youtube and books, you can teach all the kids eight and up pennywhistle, and that would be a cheap way to get some music into their lives. Does your town's park and rec offer cheapie soccer, perhaps played locally and non-competitively? The oldest child might be eligible for pickup or recreational leagues with adults. Are you doing equipment intensive sports? Distance running can be a lot cheaper than hockey, for example.
Are your kids helping cook? With that many children over 10, you could probably put them to work and eliminate buying all processed food entirely, and particularly for the gluten free stuff, that's a real money sink. Can you and the older kids put in a garden?
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Good ideas serpentstooth! The sports are not expensive--they only do school sports like bball/football/track. We want them to be involved in these activities mostly so they strive to do something hard and learn new skills. Otherwise it seems they stay at home lying around and reading fantasy/other fiction books that they pick up from the school library, which is not a bad thing but they will read all day if we let them. It is hard to get to any away games though bc of all the different activities. The oldest two have started to work mowing lawns and doing other odd jobs for people, helping to pay for their own stuff, and that has been helpful. Piano lessons are something that we have always wanted to provide and it is going well but it is kind of pricey. One problem that we have with online learning in our home is that it always quickly degenerates into endless time-wasting youtube viewing, things like dude perfect, funniest fails, etc etc etc. We plan to have the kids doing some online learning this summer with khan academy when school ends though.
We have all breakfasts and school lunches assigned to be cooked by kids, dinners usually cooked by mom. Processed food is already out of the question for the most part. But even the good bulk gluten free stuff is incredibly expensive--have you bought bulk almond flour lately? yikes! We do a garden every year, but it is difficult for us to get good results. I think it comes down to not only a lack of skill but not having enough time to dedicate to it for the most part...