A conversation with a child of extreme mustachians...(One of yours?)

[Simple Abundant Living]

Today I had a chat with a new girl at work. She is from out of state, so i asked about her home and family. I discovered that her parents (in their late 40's) are FIRE.  So I wanted to ask her how life was growing up. She told me she has worked from age 11 on. She started her own business and was invoicing clients at that age. She had to pay for her own clothes, school supplies, birthday parties, etc.  if she had friends over, she had to purchase the food they ate.

I wanted to know how she felt about that. With no hesitation she said, "I hated it!".  She then modified her answer by saying that she appreciates now all the life skills she learned. She can budget to the penny, she's hardworking and resourceful. But she also moved out at age 17 and was homeless for half a year. Her relationship now with her parents is better- she says she talks to her dad all the time, but her relationship with her mom is strained even still. She moved in with her boyfriend at 18 and married him a few years later. The are now expecting a child (her parents first grandchild). I asked if her parents were excited, and she said that they seemed happy, but will not be flying out to see the baby due to it not being in the budget. (Christmas will be just a few months later, so they'll see the baby then.). Her mom actually still works (making 150K) and she says dad has "millions".

I don't think her experience is typical, but it was an interesting conversation. I think the fault lies in letting frugality come before people.  I think there are plenty of mustachians whose kids feel loved and spoiled despite having frugal parents.  What do you think?  Where's the fine line?

[Cassie]

I think that is terrible! She never had a chance to be a kid. Kids have their whole life to worry about $. While we passed down values, etc to our children about $ expecting them to pay for their friend's food when they are at your house is awful.

[dragoncar]

These guys aren't Mustachians, they are cheapskates.  I can't imagine MMM not visiting his grandchild with millions in the bank.

[Cassie]

You are so right!  I watched the Extreme Cheapskates show a few times & it was disgusting.  I love shows about how to save $ but this was horrible.

[MicroRN]

She had to pay for her friend's food if they came over?  That's messed up, seriously.  I'm on board with kids paying for the difference between store-brand and brand-name, but basic clothing and school expenses should absolutely be paid by the parents.  No wonder the relationship is strained. 

[NumberJohnny5]

I need more information before I could pass judgement.

I make my 7yr old pay for his own clothes, and pay for friends' birthday presents (if he wishes to give one). But, we (wife and I) are the ones that give him the money used, so...

In fact, just yesterday I told him if he wanted to go to Pizza Hut, he had to use his own money (just to set the stage, this was right after we took them to Hungry Jack's, aka Burger King).

We could be portrayed as either extremely cheap and heartless (what, they make their kids buy their own socks??!!) or extremely spendy (whoa, $8/wk allowance for a 7yr old, that's outrageous!). BTW, clothing doesn't come out of the regular allowance; we give our son an extra $5/mo for clothing (though if he wanted a $100 pair of shoes, he'd have to dip into his allowance).

As for not flying out to see a grandchild born (first or tenth, shouldn't matter), not sure. How far away, how much are the tickets (and accommodation; I doubt the new parents will feel like hosting their own parents at that time), etc.? They're going to see them within a few months anyways, and the new parents will probably be a bit more settled into their new routine at that point, so maybe that really is the best thing to do (money aside)? We're thousands of miles away, we certainly didn't expect family to come and visit when our newest was born. If that's ok...at what point does it stop being ok? 3,323 miles? 1,252 miles? 3 miles?

[AJ]

How old is this girl? I didn't make the leap from "my parents are horrible idiots" to " oh man, my parents knew way more about life than I gave them credit for" until just a few years ago - maybe age 25. It's possible her parents are terrible cheapskates, but it is also possible that she's just venting. I'm sorta with josetann - not enough info to tell.

As far as flying out to see the baby, didn't she say her relationship with mom isn't great? It's very possible in that environment that she just doesn't want to impose. But it's all speculation.

Personally, I would have loved if my parents would have (or could have) taught me about money. But I was probably a weird kid.

[Milspecstache]

How old is this girl? I didn't make the leap from "my parents are horrible idiots" to " oh man, my parents knew way more about life than I gave them credit for" until just a few years ago - maybe age 25. It's possible her parents are terrible cheapskates, but it is also possible that she's just venting. I'm sorta with josetann - not enough info to tell.

I'm with both of you.  I left home at 18 thinking I knew more than both of my parents.  Came back at 22 to visit and I was amazed at how much my Dad had 'learned' in those 4 years.  Realistically what happened was that I finally had a chance to see how much I didn't know/couldn't possibly learn compared to the life experiences of my parents.  The arrogance I had at 18 living at home, no real expenses, no dependents, simple afternoon job was soon tempered by real life.

[Simple Abundant Living]

I need more information before I could pass judgement.

I make my 7yr old pay for his own clothes, and pay for friends' birthday presents (if he wishes to give one). But, we (wife and I) are the ones that give him the money used, so...

In fact, just yesterday I told him if he wanted to go to Pizza Hut, he had to use his own money (just to set the stage, this was right after we took them to Hungry Jack's, aka Burger King).

We could be portrayed as either extremely cheap and heartless (what, they make their kids buy their own socks??!!) or extremely spendy (whoa, $8/wk allowance for a 7yr old, that's outrageous!). BTW, clothing doesn't come out of the regular allowance; we give our son an extra $5/mo for clothing (though if he wanted a $100 pair of shoes, he'd have to dip into his allowance).

As for not flying out to see a grandchild born (first or tenth, shouldn't matter), not sure. How far away, how much are the tickets (and accommodation; I doubt the new parents will feel like hosting their own parents at that time), etc.? They're going to see them within a few months anyways, and the new parents will probably be a bit more settled into their new routine at that point, so maybe that really is the best thing to do (money aside)? We're thousands of miles away, we certainly didn't expect family to come and visit when our newest was born. If that's ok...at what point does it stop being ok? 3,323 miles? 1,252 miles? 3 miles?

I agree about more information!  I've only worked with her once and we were both busy, so I'm hoping to get more details as time goes on.  She's about 23-yrs old, I would say.  And from her reaction, I think she is hurt that her parent don't want to come out and see the new baby.  Parents are a 13 hour drive or 1.5hr flight away.  Personally, even if my daughter is living in Dubai, I would be out there as soon as she wants me!  Babies change so much in the first weeks and I would hate to miss any of it!

I was just so curious about her upbringing.  I was brought up in a financially conservative home, but I still felt spoiled and lucky.  My parents paid for my essentials and school activities, but if I wanted some toy I would need to pay for it if it wasn't my birthday or Christmas.  I worked a few jobs, but didn't feel like I had to work.  I played and participated in school activities.  As far as my own children, I feel I have spoiled them too much and we have tried to scale back.  I'm not happy seeing any signs of entitlement in my children.  :(

[imustachemystash]

Yuck!  There is a fine line between being frugal and being a cheapskate.  You can teach children life skills around frugality without making them resent you.  That is sad.

[warfreak2]

Yuck!  There is a fine line between being frugal and being a cheapskate.  You can teach children life skills around frugality without making them resent you homeless.  That is sad.

That's what I was more worried about, though I am doing a bit of conclusion-jumping-to. Homelessness has such profoundly negative consequences that any parents should do everything within their power to prevent it happening to their children. Certainly they shouldn't contribute to it, which to all appearances they did, even if only by making their home so unbearable for their daughter to live in that she felt there was no other option than to leave.

[MrsPete]

Today I had a chat with a new girl at work. She is from out of state, so i asked about her home and family. I discovered that her parents (in their late 40's) are FIRE.  So I wanted to ask her how life was growing up. She told me she has worked from age 11 on. She started her own business and was invoicing clients at that age. She had to pay for her own clothes, school supplies, birthday parties, etc.  if she had friends over, she had to purchase the food they ate.

I wanted to know how she felt about that. With no hesitation she said, "I hated it!".  She then modified her answer by saying that she appreciates now all the life skills she learned. She can budget to the penny, she's hardworking and resourceful. But she also moved out at age 17 and was homeless for half a year. Her relationship now with her parents is better- she says she talks to her dad all the time, but her relationship with her mom is strained even still. She moved in with her boyfriend at 18 and married him a few years later. The are now expecting a child (her parents first grandchild). I asked if her parents were excited, and she said that they seemed happy, but will not be flying out to see the baby due to it not being in the budget. (Christmas will be just a few months later, so they'll see the baby then.). Her mom actually still works (making 150K) and she says dad has "millions".

I don't think her experience is typical, but it was an interesting conversation. I think the fault lies in letting frugality come before people.  I think there are plenty of mustachians whose kids feel loved and spoiled despite having frugal parents.  What do you think?  Where's the fine line?

While my details varied drastically, I grew up with parents whose thoughts ran along these same lines.  Wanting things was considered bad and ungrateful.  Asking for anything beyond the basics was a punishable offense.  The real issue was that they had more children than they could afford, and they made some pretty boneheaded financial choices -- they were under stress all the time, and instead of analyzing the real issue and searching for a solution, they attacked the symptoms:  They'd become angry with us for outgrowing shoes or needing glasses.  If they couldn't afford to pay for a school trip, they'd ground us so we couldn't attend anyway.  They tried to discourage me from going to college, even though they weren't paying a penny of the expense.  On the plus side, we all became devilish hard workers at a young age.  It was "too much", and I've been out of the house long enough to have raised two children, so I've had plenty of cooling-off time and plenty of time to see things from a distance.  I get along with my parents now . . . because I don't live with them.  However, I do maintain some boundaries because of the way I was brought up:  I don't discuss money with them -- ever, under any circumstances.  I watch their interaction with my own children closely -- they've crossed the lines with their grandchildren a few times (i.e., criticizing my girls' purchasing choices, not in a productive manner), and I've put a stop to it.  And while I will always be willing to help them out in their elderly years, they will not live in my house.

How old is this girl? I didn't make the leap from "my parents are horrible idiots" to " oh man, my parents knew way more about life than I gave them credit for" until just a few years ago - maybe age 25. It's possible her parents are terrible cheapskates, but it is also possible that she's just venting. I'm sorta with josetann - not enough info to tell

I never had that "Wow, my parents aren't idiots" moment.  I always knew my parents were smart and resourceful in other ways, and I always knew they were complete idiots with money. 

[Cassie]

After reading some of these stories I feel so grateful to have had the parents I did. I grew up middle class and we had what we needed plus some of what we wanted.  They also passed on good $ values.  They encouraged all 3 of us to go to college because they wanted us to do better then them.  We could live at home for free & go to college.

[MrsPete]

After reading some of these stories I feel so grateful to have had the parents I did. I grew up middle class and we had what we needed plus some of what we wanted.  They also passed on good $ values.  They encouraged all 3 of us to go to college because they wanted us to do better then them.  We could live at home for free & go to college.

You were fortunate! 

The funny thing about my parents is that now that we kids are out of the house, most of those things they used to do have disappeared.  I think -- now that I've been out of their house 25 years and have had time to reflect on things -- that they were simply overwhelmed with the reality of five kids and little money.  They had us too young, they had too many of us, and they had no "fallback resources".  If they'd only had two kids, I think our upbringing would've been different. 

[Cassie]

At one point in my life I was a social worker and we would try to help families like yours. However, the have too many kids & not make enough $ is not very easy to fix.  Probably when you were a child programs like this did not even exist. It really makes it tough for parents & kids.

[ASquared]

Wow I think this story is just sad.....I want my child to grow up understanding the value of money and being responsible, but that people (particularly family) come before money.  That story just seems like not a way to live!!