Author Topic: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?  (Read 27103 times)

Fru-Gal

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #50 on: April 18, 2024, 10:33:20 PM »
Yes. There's a lot of competitive parenting pushing these teams.

I played community, high school and college sports and they were absolutely fun & defining parts of my life. I especially remember the fun of high school and college sports travel.

My kids had/have no interest in college, so my only hope was youth sports and high school sports. One kid played an expensive club sport and once they got to high school it was a tremendous relief to have them join the high school team and we could stop spending ridiculous amounts and being guilt-tripped by the other parents on the club team. And we were only on the team for 2-3 years, and didn't do barely any tournaments, only a handful a few hours away. Some parents on this same team spent $25000 a year doing tournaments and camps all over the country!

But to be clear, this was all ENTIRELY pushed by the kid, who discovered the sport (not one that either of us parents had ever played) and was motivated to do it. Then kid inexplicably quit the sport completely halfway through high school and we mourned that. Now as an adult I hope kid gets back into it because I know how much pleasure it gave them -- and they were good!

Other kid had zero interest but I did get them into two different local sports. Didn't stick with either, once again kid paved their own way to fitness through other interests.

In short I think local and school sports are great, travel sports not so great unless kid is REALLY into it.

Sibley

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #51 on: April 19, 2024, 08:45:10 AM »
Reading all these posts, I have come to the conclusion that contrary to being a bad parent if you don't do travel/club sports, there's a decent chance that you would be a bad parent if you DID put your kid in travel/club sports.

Why do you have to put your kid in sports at all? What about music, art, or dance?

And if you're thinking you want your kids to do the sports because you did them and loved them - cut that out. Expose your kid to sports. But your kid is NOT you. Get therapy if you're struggling with that, because no kid deserves the crap that a parent who can't accept the kid isn't a copy will dish out.

Chris Pascale

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2024, 09:07:19 AM »

Why do you have to put your kid in sports at all? What about music, art, or dance?



There's "travel" for these, too. And the arts cost even more.

« Last Edit: April 19, 2024, 09:18:14 AM by Chris Pascale »

Michael in ABQ

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2024, 09:14:09 AM »

Why do you have to put your kid in sports at all? What about music, art, or dance?



There's "travel" for these, too. And the arts cost even more.

We've done a few sports for our kids over the year (soccer for a year in elementary school, some track and field in middle school) including a dance class for our daughter. We heard from some other parents at school about dance and that can get crazy. I.e. buying a special dance outfit at $50+ for every single performance. My wife's cousin did a few different dance classes as a kid, and it sounds like it was just as intense as club sports.


Frankly with 6 kids we have neither the time nor the inclination for a bunch of extra-curricular stuff. There is a max of one thing per kid and fortunately most don't even do that. Our daughter has a music lesson once a week and her teacher's house is 5 minutes away. Our three oldest boys do track but it's after school at the same time and only lasts a couple months per year. 

Chris Pascale

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2024, 09:18:29 AM »

Why do you have to put your kid in sports at all? What about music, art, or dance?



There's "travel" for these, too. And the arts cost even more.

We've done a few sports for our kids over the year (soccer for a year in elementary school, some track and field in middle school) including a dance class for our daughter. We heard from some other parents at school about dance and that can get crazy. I.e. buying a special dance outfit at $50+ for every single performance. My wife's cousin did a few different dance classes as a kid, and it sounds like it was just as intense as club sports.


Frankly with 6 kids we have neither the time nor the inclination for a bunch of extra-curricular stuff. There is a max of one thing per kid and fortunately most don't even do that. Our daughter has a music lesson once a week and her teacher's house is 5 minutes away. Our three oldest boys do track but it's after school at the same time and only lasts a couple months per year.

I didn't put this in my sports examples, but I knew someone who majored in dance, then became a personal trainer, which I'm sure she's great at. Alternatively, I took 2 ballet classes in college, and was invited to join the city ballet (unpaid, Niagara Falls) after doing 5 performances for their "Nutcracker" shows. I was invited mostly because there was a need for young men the next year, which was actually how I also got my D-I scholarship - I happened to be there when they had a need.

In both cases, I just showed up as a moderately capable stranger. I wasn't "getting the exposure" a travel team, or your local dance school, claims to offer when they talk about their trips to Florida or New Jersey.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2024, 09:20:51 AM by Chris Pascale »

Chris Pascale

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2024, 09:20:11 AM »

Frankly with 6 kids.......

With 6 kids they'd all have to be either:
 - in the same sport
 - working out at the gym you own
 - or admiring the 1 kid who gets the opportunity

brandon1827

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2024, 09:41:26 AM »
Reading all these posts, I have come to the conclusion that contrary to being a bad parent if you don't do travel/club sports, there's a decent chance that you would be a bad parent if you DID put your kid in travel/club sports.

Why do you have to put your kid in sports at all? What about music, art, or dance?

And if you're thinking you want your kids to do the sports because you did them and loved them - cut that out. Expose your kid to sports. But your kid is NOT you. Get therapy if you're struggling with that, because no kid deserves the crap that a parent who can't accept the kid isn't a copy will dish out.

Also please understand that the few bad examples or personal anecdotes that you've seen from some posters here does not represent all travel sports. I put my kid in travel sports because that's what he loves. I was a football kid...my kid loves basketball, so that's what we support. He gets exposed to music, art, & dance through school. He also plays basketball through school, but because of that exposure he's developed a love for the sport and wants to play non-stop. We play one tournament approximately every 3 weeks. We practice twice per week. That's the totality of our time commitment. The total cost is $400 for tournament fees spanning March through July and uniforms. Not cheap depending on who you ask, but worth it for us to provide our son the opportunity to learn & develop...as a player and a person.

Are there plenty of examples of travel sports being bad? Of course there are. Many parents do it for the wrong reasons or have the wrong attitude about it. However, many parents do it for the right reason and have a great attitude. So while the bad examples are obviously more talked about and may be easier to find, I feel like that's the world we live in. Negatives are always amplified while the positives are ignored or buried. There are plenty of positives to sports in general, and travel sports can be a positive thing.

nereo

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #57 on: April 19, 2024, 10:46:52 AM »

Why do you have to put your kid in sports at all? What about music, art, or dance?

Certainly a parent doesn't *have to* per their kid in sports, and for some kids it's completely the wrong choice.  On the other side of the coin, for some kids there are huge benefits and developmental gains to be had from joining club sports.  And yes, the same can be said about music, art, or dance.  Some kids absolutely thrive in such an environment.  As an example, some kids with behavioral issues or who are neurodivergent absolutely thrive in sports because they have clear rules, a well defined goal and established boundaries. It can foster social development because instead of being "the weird kid" they are "the kids who's really good at ___"

Similar things can be said about dance, or art, or music, or any activity really. 

The key is to always consider if it's good for your child, and recognize that kids grow and change, and with that development club sports may become more or less beneficial to your kid.  Also recognize that not every team or coach or program is a great fit.  If you're trying to evaluate club sports based on whether your kiddo will get a scholarship, or get into a D1 program, or otherwise gain a 'return' for that investment of time and money - you are looking at the whole experience in a very unhealthy way.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2024, 11:51:13 AM by nereo »

Chris Pascale

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #58 on: April 19, 2024, 11:36:27 AM »

Why do you have to put your kid in sports at all? What about music, art, or dance?

Certainly a parent doesn't *have to* per their kid in sports, and for some kids it's completely the wrong choice.  On the other side of the coin, for some kids there are huge benefits and developmental gains to be had from joining club sports.  And yes, the same can be said about music, art, or dance.  Some kids absolutely thrive in such an environment.  As an example, kids with behavioral issues or who are neurodivergent absolutely thrive in sports because they have clear rules, a well defined goal and established boundaries. It can foster social development because instead of being "the weird kid" they are "the kids who's really good at ___"

Similar things can be said about dance, or art, or music, or any activity really. 

The key is to always consider if it's good for your child, and recognize that kids grow and change, and with that development club sports may become more or less beneficial to your kid.  Also recognize that not every team or coach or program is a great fit.  If you're trying to evaluate club sports based on whether your kiddo will get a scholarship, or get into a D1 program, or otherwise gain a 'return' for that investment of time and money - you are looking at the whole experience in a very unhealthy way.

Yep, not either/or. Many do both.

Jakestersquat

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #59 on: April 20, 2024, 10:05:20 AM »
I think another issue with competitive sports is that too many kids think that sports is the only way to be active. They tie their entire ďathleteĒ identity to the sport. Which may not be terrible when you are a kid. But how many middle aged people do you know still play American football? Or baseball or any other sport? I think it will benefit the kids much more in the long run if they have various ways of being physically active. Hiking cycling running are great for this. Heck even other sports that donít require an entire team would be great how much easier is it to grab a single friend and go play tennis vs getting plenty of people to play baseball or other team sports? Martial arts is another thing that I think is way easier to continue doing throughout your life. Now Iím not saying that I wonít let me kids do those team sports but o oh that Iím gonna push them to be much more well rounded in their athletic identity.


I admit most of this thinking came from an article/podcast linked below.

https://www.artofmanliness.com/health-fitness/fitness/the-importance-of-having-a-physical-identity/



DeepEllumStache

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #60 on: April 27, 2024, 07:54:44 PM »
I think another issue with competitive sports is that too many kids think that sports is the only way to be active. They tie their entire ďathleteĒ identity to the sport. Which may not be terrible when you are a kid. But how many middle aged people do you know still play American football? Or baseball or any other sport?

As a middle aged woman who plays in an all female soccer organization with various leagues based on age/competitiveness, I know a lot of middle aged women who still play. And some of the fields we play at have a baseball field nearby that occasionally has a bunch of middle aged men playing baseball so I can confirm they exist too.

That being said, I grew up playing competitive soccer through high school but completely agree that it's more than ok to not do travel club sports. The best part of my rec league is that it's all the fun of soccer with none of the expectations or stress. It's a very different experience from competitive sports.

nereo

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #61 on: April 28, 2024, 06:01:52 AM »
I think another issue with competitive sports is that too many kids think that sports is the only way to be active. They tie their entire ďathleteĒ identity to the sport. Which may not be terrible when you are a kid. But how many middle aged people do you know still play American football? Or baseball or any other sport?

As a middle aged woman who plays in an all female soccer organization with various leagues based on age/competitiveness, I know a lot of middle aged women who still play. And some of the fields we play at have a baseball field nearby that occasionally has a bunch of middle aged men playing baseball so I can confirm they exist too.

That being said, I grew up playing competitive soccer through high school but completely agree that it's more than ok to not do travel club sports. The best part of my rec league is that it's all the fun of soccer with none of the expectations or stress. It's a very different experience from competitive sports.

Yeah, the above comment left me scratching my head a bit. Canít say I see any post-college adults playing Tackle American football around here, but there are plenty of sports which have entire adult leagues around me. We have a half dozen ďover 24Ē mens soccer teams that play each in an heated matches at the town fields each weekend, and who are objectively better than the highschool varsity teams. Go to most running races (eg 10k, half-marathon/marathon) and a good chunk of the competitors will be in the 40s and above. Same with open water swimming and cycling. Then thereís pickle ball and golf- two sports that are overwhelmingly viewed as dominated by older players.

Metalcat

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #62 on: April 28, 2024, 06:22:17 AM »
I think another issue with competitive sports is that too many kids think that sports is the only way to be active. They tie their entire ďathleteĒ identity to the sport. Which may not be terrible when you are a kid. But how many middle aged people do you know still play American football? Or baseball or any other sport?

As a middle aged woman who plays in an all female soccer organization with various leagues based on age/competitiveness, I know a lot of middle aged women who still play. And some of the fields we play at have a baseball field nearby that occasionally has a bunch of middle aged men playing baseball so I can confirm they exist too.

That being said, I grew up playing competitive soccer through high school but completely agree that it's more than ok to not do travel club sports. The best part of my rec league is that it's all the fun of soccer with none of the expectations or stress. It's a very different experience from competitive sports.

Yeah, the above comment left me scratching my head a bit. Canít say I see any post-college adults playing Tackle American football around here, but there are plenty of sports which have entire adult leagues around me. We have a half dozen ďover 24Ē mens soccer teams that play each in an heated matches at the town fields each weekend, and who are objectively better than the highschool varsity teams. Go to most running races (eg 10k, half-marathon/marathon) and a good chunk of the competitors will be in the 40s and above. Same with open water swimming and cycling. Then thereís pickle ball and golf- two sports that are overwhelmingly viewed as dominated by older players.

Sure, but it's still a vast minority of middle aged folks who are actually getting out there and playing sports.

The points being made are that putting kids in competitive sports isn't necessarily correlated with a lifelong love of sports, which is one of the most parroted rationals out there for pushing kids into organized sports.

I know infinitely more obese, sedentary ex competitive sports players than I do lifelong athletes. And in my personal experience, the folks who play fun, casual team sports in middle age aren't necessarily the same folks who played competitively as kids.

In fact, most of my friends who are middle aged and actively play a lot of recreational sports were never in competitive sports in their youth.

Obviously some highly competitive athlete kids continue to enjoy their sports forever. That absolutely does happen, I just don't see it very often. What I see far more often is the 35 year old who wants more exercise but hates the gym and wants to make more friends and joins a local softball league because someone at work invited them, and then they fall in love with it.

I personally have heard this kind of story infinitely more often than the story of the child athlete who never gave up their sport.

Fru-Gal

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #63 on: April 28, 2024, 06:57:09 PM »
Burnout is incredibly common among high-performance (academic and/or athletic) kids.

LightTripper

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #64 on: April 29, 2024, 04:46:10 AM »
I had one idea: we live in a big city where these things are easy, so I completely realise this may not work out for you, but could still be worth a try.  Could you advertise for a professional coach yourself, and then see if you can find enough kids (DC's friends/schoolmates) who would enjoy the session and be willing to share the cost?

One of the school parents at DD's school has done this which means she (and typically between 8-16 classmates each week) get the benefit of a professional soccer coach who gives them skills training and sets them up in a match.  We split the costs between whoever turned up that week, so it means "parent zero" takes on the admin hassle/risk, but I get the impression people are fairly good at paying.  It costs between £8-12 depending how how many kids show up (so I think the coach must charge around £200 for the 2 hours, which is a bargain if so as he's really good).  She does also do a girls football that is just coached by parents and it's also fun (and some definite benefits to being girls only) but she definitely learns more in the professionally coached session.

My (indirect) experience of full on sports is similar to others here.  I had friends with very gifted kids - the boy was actually in the national youth team for a sport, and the girl in regional-level teams for various sports.  It was a huge amount of travelling - the family was nearly always split in 2 at weekends and we barely saw them for years.  But what killed it for them was that as the boy in the national team got older the environment got really toxic - so harsh, very little praise, all pressure.  It was difficult to stop though as there was no "happy medium" club where he could play to a high standard without the pressure.  Luckily our friend managed to get them both into a different activity which they have fallen in love with and now just do sports for fun, no pressure (the boy was initially unwilling to give up the national team as it's obviously quite a prestigious thing that he worked very hard for, but the new activity was sufficiently exciting/fun that he did eventually decide to give up the sports team). 

The new activity does still mean being away from home for periods of time, but in a much more manageable way from a family-life perspective and the siblings actually seeing each other. Everyone seems much happier!

Metalcat

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #65 on: April 29, 2024, 04:47:20 AM »
Burnout is incredibly common among high-performance (academic and/or athletic) kids.

True, but I'm not just talking about burnout.

As I mentioned above and as nereo and I have actually pm'd about, a lot of folks who equate sports with performance are unable to enjoy their sport.casually afterwards, similar to the way that turning a hobby into a business can take away the ability to enjoy it unpaid anymore.

Psychologically, if a kid gets thoroughly coded with sports being about performance and winning, then it often makes it very difficult to enjoy sports without the ability to achieve the same level of performance goals.

I shared a hilarious story years ago of a patient who was overweight complaining about how she hates going to the gym, so I gave her the typical "find an exercise toy actually like" advice and told her I had taken up swimming. Her eyes lit up and she exclaimed "oh I'm so jealous, I used to love swimming."

She then explains that she was a competitive swimmer all through highschool and university. I assume she was injured and can't swim but no, she can still swim very well, but she has no race to prep for.

I'm like "but you could still swim," and she would reply "for what race?? I don't even think I have it in me to train for a race anyway," and I'm like "but...you could still swim" and she gets frustrated and says "for what race??!!" as if I'm a fucking moron.

This literally goes on for several minutes like some kind of comedy routine as she makes it clear that there is absolutely no way that she can get in a pool and just *swim laps* without focusing on lap times, how to get faster, and having a performance goal.

Even though she misses swimming so much as despises the gym, she cannot bring herself to just *swim* for the sake of exercise.

I've heard variations of this story so many times, that once sports get equated with performance, it's hard to impossible for a lot of people to keep doing them when age/work/kids/etc erode their capacity to perform competitively. It's hard psychologically for people to go backwards.

Obviously plenty of folks are perfectly capable of tolerating diminishing competitive capacity and can play their childhood sport for fun and fitness forever.

...but I don't personally hear that version of the story nearly as much as I hear the swim version I told above. So my personal perception is that putting kids into highly competitive, performance-based sports is quite possibly more likely to erode their capacity to enjoy casual sports as an adult, as counter intuitive as that sounds.

GuitarStv

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #66 on: April 29, 2024, 07:44:19 AM »
Yeah, it's very important to focus on setting the right goals with sports.

Winning a competition is often kinda a shit goal to set.  It's not hard to find situations where destroying your body short term helps you win.  There are certainly benefits to be had from competitive sport, but the "I'm going to be the best in the world at this" approach doesn't often seem to lead to long term success.  I think this is because it depends on other people (your competitors' performance) to validate your own success.

Personal performance and challenge/health reasons/feeling better/enjoying the activity itself all seem to be reasons that work best.  At least that's what I hear from the older active athletes I know who seem to be able to maintain the lifestyle well into old age.  I think this is because it focuses on things that are much more controllable by yourself and less dependent upon other people.

Metalcat

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #67 on: April 29, 2024, 02:48:08 PM »
Yeah, it's very important to focus on setting the right goals with sports.

Winning a competition is often kinda a shit goal to set.  It's not hard to find situations where destroying your body short term helps you win.  There are certainly benefits to be had from competitive sport, but the "I'm going to be the best in the world at this" approach doesn't often seem to lead to long term success.  I think this is because it depends on other people (your competitors' performance) to validate your own success.

Personal performance and challenge/health reasons/feeling better/enjoying the activity itself all seem to be reasons that work best.  At least that's what I hear from the older active athletes I know who seem to be able to maintain the lifestyle well into old age.  I think this is because it focuses on things that are much more controllable by yourself and less dependent upon other people.

Unfortunately, it's very, very easy to get sucked into the relentless performance side of competitive sports.

I think I mentioned earlier sitting at dinner with newish friends and one of the moms complaining that the figure skating coach doesn't push her daughter hard enough to perform better...because he daughter doesn't like figure skating. But this mom thinks one of the main purposes of being in highly competitive sports is to learn discipline and that it's the coach's job to push her to be more disciplined at being good at figure skating.

I was actually playing out in my head the future conversations this girl might have with her therapist.

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #68 on: April 30, 2024, 08:27:34 AM »
[...So my personal perception is that putting kids into highly competitive, performance-based sports is quite possibly more likely to erode their capacity to enjoy casual sports as an adult, as counter intuitive as that sounds.

At a 20th reunion, the people who had been in team sports were pretty much shot.  Bloatos.  Exercise could only take place if 21 other people were found to form 2 teams, "laps" were punishment, prep for a game involved a steak dinner.   So no exercise in 20 years.  The people who had done "sports" incidentally, like bicycling, flyfishing, hunting, jogging, had kept it up, and were same-size they had been 20 years before.   

While it seems a total loss for lifetime fitness, there are messages about cooperation, strategy and in-group solidarity that can be learned from team sports.  To me, the strangeness is in calling a group of people competing with each other a team - as for instance grand-daughter's gymnastics "team."  The mothers seems syrupy cut-throat, the little girls less motivated by personal achievement than by beating others including their "teammates."   It will be surprising if any of those little girls carry their remarkable flexibility into later life, as for instance, by beginning a yoga practice in their 20s. 

GuitarStv

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #69 on: April 30, 2024, 08:40:54 AM »
To me, the strangeness is in calling a group of people competing with each other a team - as for instance grand-daughter's gymnastics "team."  The mothers seems syrupy cut-throat, the little girls less motivated by personal achievement than by beating others including their "teammates."   It will be surprising if any of those little girls carry their remarkable flexibility into later life, as for instance, by beginning a yoga practice in their 20s.

I've heard this before about gymnastics (and some other sports).  It's really weird to me.  My son is enrolled in a gym that does Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and both adults/children regularly compete - both in class and in tournaments.  Despite regular competition there is a strong team spirit, willingness to help other people, and it's a very friendly environment.  If your teammates get better, they will push you harder so you get better too.  Sure, the goal is to win in tournaments but people who work to challenge themselves are celebrated just as much even if they lose.

Metalcat

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #70 on: April 30, 2024, 11:00:33 AM »
[...So my personal perception is that putting kids into highly competitive, performance-based sports is quite possibly more likely to erode their capacity to enjoy casual sports as an adult, as counter intuitive as that sounds.

At a 20th reunion, the people who had been in team sports were pretty much shot.  Bloatos.  Exercise could only take place if 21 other people were found to form 2 teams, "laps" were punishment, prep for a game involved a steak dinner.   So no exercise in 20 years.  The people who had done "sports" incidentally, like bicycling, flyfishing, hunting, jogging, had kept it up, and were same-size they had been 20 years before.   

While it seems a total loss for lifetime fitness, there are messages about cooperation, strategy and in-group solidarity that can be learned from team sports.  To me, the strangeness is in calling a group of people competing with each other a team - as for instance grand-daughter's gymnastics "team."  The mothers seems syrupy cut-throat, the little girls less motivated by personal achievement than by beating others including their "teammates."   It will be surprising if any of those little girls carry their remarkable flexibility into later life, as for instance, by beginning a yoga practice in their 20s.

My thinking all comes back to the fact that cooperation, strategy, teamwork, etc, are all skills that kids could learn by spending quality time with their own families, they don't have to learn them in organized sports.

Again, I will acknowledge for the millionth time that organized sports are highly beneficial for some kids, I'll repeat it every time I say something here so that it's very clear that I'm not *against* team sports, I'm just fascinated that sports are treated like the main, or sometimes *only* pathway to learning these skills in life.

Outside of mandatory gym class, I've never played organized sports in my life because my legs have always been fucked up. But I learned enormous amounts about discipline, organization, time management, collaboration/teamwork, communication, etc, from cooking scratch meals every day with my family, and it gave me, y'know, cooking skills, which served me phenomenally well my whole life.

My point is that I find it absolutely fascinating that so, so many parents perceive competitive sports as essentially mandatory and have been somehow brainwashed into thinking it's the *only* path for kids to learn these important life skills.

Pair that with the illusion that it will set them up to be active and fit for life, which from what I've seen isn't even remotely universally true, it just boggles my mind that these "truths" about competitive sports for kids are just blindly accepted and promoted.

It's great for some kids, really amazing, and that's awesome. But back when I was a kid, it wasn't sports, it was music. Parents had the same bullshit attitude about learning an instrument being a critical part of a child's development. It was basically child neglect if you didn't force your kid to practice an instrument, often much to the child's dread.

I had zero interest in learning an instrument and I could get away with it because I could sing. Still, to this day it strikes me as idiotic that parents were so pressured that to be a good parent was to shove a violin in your kid's hand and force them to practice for an hour before they could watch cartoons on Saturday.

I mean, c'mon, how many of those kids grew up to be adults who play violin or clarinet???

Every parent seems to have the extra curricular activity in their culture/generation that makes them a "bad parent" if they don't push their kid into it, and to me it just seems so ridiculous.

Decide as a family what brings you joy, health, and happiness.

If that's travel team hockey and that's your family's passion, GREAT! My closest friends out here in Newfoundland have a kid in travel hockey and the entire family including aunts, uncles, and grandparents travel together for the games, this means that anyone who can't make it due to work or illness or whatever, can skip a game because there's always a big crew to back them up. They always stay in cottages and do big cook ups, it's truly their family culture. That is awesome, it sounds so fun.

But that's not the story I hear often. What I usually hear is family stretched to the absolute limit in terms of managing free time, meals, expenses, etc. It doesn't sound overall to be beneficial to a lot of family units, and yet, the parents feel overwhelming guilt about the prospect of not doing it.

...at least they don't have to listen to a child practice trumpet, that's just miserable...

nereo

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #71 on: April 30, 2024, 01:55:55 PM »
You are just against all kids in team sports @Metalcat
:-p

jeninco

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #72 on: April 30, 2024, 02:19:38 PM »
You are just against all kids in team sports @Metalcat
:-p

Although, having had two middle--school kids play brass instruments, I'm fully in agreement about having someone doing that (poorly, they're learning) in a small house. And the younger one kept on playing -- it's one of his two college majors! It was still a fine, fine day, when we offered to rent him half an apartment close to campus so he could keep his instrument in a locker at the music building and do all his practicing IN A PRACTICE ROOM!

Metalcat

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #73 on: April 30, 2024, 02:22:05 PM »
You are just against all kids in team sports @Metalcat
:-p

Well I *do* really hate hockey.

nereo

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #74 on: April 30, 2024, 02:54:31 PM »
You are just against all kids in team sports @Metalcat
:-p

Well I *do* really hate hockey.

You, madam, are a Canadian Imposter!!

note to others:  Metalcat and I are actually internet besties, and all above is said in jest. Itís how we show affection and the moderators need not be notified of our ad hominem tangents. I feel I will save this disclaimer to my clipboard and paste it whenever one of us offers the other a snarky response. Seriously, itís all good people.

Metalcat

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #75 on: April 30, 2024, 03:27:48 PM »
You are just against all kids in team sports @Metalcat
:-p

Well I *do* really hate hockey.

You, madam, are a Canadian Imposter!!

note to others:  Metalcat and I are actually internet besties, and all above is said in jest. Itís how we show affection and the moderators need not be notified of our ad hominem tangents. I feel I will save this disclaimer to my clipboard and paste it whenever one of us offers the other a snarky response. Seriously, itís all good people.

Lol, nereo, that's like the least harsh insult you've ever thrown at me around here. I don't think that needed a disclaimer.

But yeah, I get told I'm a failed Canadian all the time for my hockey hate.

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #76 on: April 30, 2024, 03:41:08 PM »
You are just against all kids in team sports @Metalcat
:-p

Well I *do* really hate hockey.

You, madam, are a Canadian Imposter!!

note to others:  Metalcat and I are actually internet besties, and all above is said in jest. Itís how we show affection and the moderators need not be notified of our ad hominem tangents. I feel I will save this disclaimer to my clipboard and paste it whenever one of us offers the other a snarky response. Seriously, itís all good people.

Lol, nereo, that's like the least harsh insult you've ever thrown at me around here. I don't think that needed a disclaimer.

But yeah, I get told I'm a failed Canadian all the time for my hockey hate.

How much hate are we taking about? A general dislike, or more towards least favorite sport of all time level?

nereo

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #77 on: April 30, 2024, 04:04:39 PM »
You are just against all kids in team sports @Metalcat
:-p

Well I *do* really hate hockey.

You, madam, are a Canadian Imposter!!

note to others:  Metalcat and I are actually internet besties, and all above is said in jest. Itís how we show affection and the moderators need not be notified of our ad hominem tangents. I feel I will save this disclaimer to my clipboard and paste it whenever one of us offers the other a snarky response. Seriously, itís all good people.

Lol, nereo, that's like the least harsh insult you've ever thrown at me around here. I don't think that needed a disclaimer.

But yeah, I get told I'm a failed Canadian all the time for my hockey hate.
I dunno - to me it ranks right up there with @GuitarStv preference for flavored, dyed corn syrup (the former ďAunt JemimaĒ ) over real maple syrup.

Metalcat

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #78 on: April 30, 2024, 06:46:50 PM »
You are just against all kids in team sports @Metalcat
:-p

Well I *do* really hate hockey.

You, madam, are a Canadian Imposter!!

note to others:  Metalcat and I are actually internet besties, and all above is said in jest. Itís how we show affection and the moderators need not be notified of our ad hominem tangents. I feel I will save this disclaimer to my clipboard and paste it whenever one of us offers the other a snarky response. Seriously, itís all good people.

Lol, nereo, that's like the least harsh insult you've ever thrown at me around here. I don't think that needed a disclaimer.

But yeah, I get told I'm a failed Canadian all the time for my hockey hate.

How much hate are we taking about? A general dislike, or more towards least favorite sport of all time level?

Not least favourite sport, I don't generally dislike sports, I enjoy quite a few of them from a spectator perspective, but I absolutely despise hockey., watching it, hockey culture, Canadian hockey sentimentality, all of it, hate it.

The last time I switched jobs I went from one place where I got free VIP football tickets to a place where I got free VIP hockey tickets and I was so pissed at the downgrade.

GuitarStv

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #79 on: May 01, 2024, 07:24:40 AM »
You are just against all kids in team sports @Metalcat
:-p

Well I *do* really hate hockey.

You, madam, are a Canadian Imposter!!

note to others:  Metalcat and I are actually internet besties, and all above is said in jest. Itís how we show affection and the moderators need not be notified of our ad hominem tangents. I feel I will save this disclaimer to my clipboard and paste it whenever one of us offers the other a snarky response. Seriously, itís all good people.

Lol, nereo, that's like the least harsh insult you've ever thrown at me around here. I don't think that needed a disclaimer.

But yeah, I get told I'm a failed Canadian all the time for my hockey hate.
I dunno - to me it ranks right up there with @GuitarStv preference for flavored, dyed corn syrup (the former ďAunt JemimaĒ ) over real maple syrup.

It's chemically designed to be the purest form of what people want on pancakes!  How can filthy tree blood possibly compete????

Metalcat

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #80 on: May 01, 2024, 06:56:59 PM »
You are just against all kids in team sports @Metalcat
:-p

Well I *do* really hate hockey.

You, madam, are a Canadian Imposter!!

note to others:  Metalcat and I are actually internet besties, and all above is said in jest. Itís how we show affection and the moderators need not be notified of our ad hominem tangents. I feel I will save this disclaimer to my clipboard and paste it whenever one of us offers the other a snarky response. Seriously, itís all good people.

Lol, nereo, that's like the least harsh insult you've ever thrown at me around here. I don't think that needed a disclaimer.

But yeah, I get told I'm a failed Canadian all the time for my hockey hate.
I dunno - to me it ranks right up there with @GuitarStv preference for flavored, dyed corn syrup (the former ďAunt JemimaĒ ) over real maple syrup.

It's chemically designed to be the purest form of what people want on pancakes!  How can filthy tree blood possibly compete????

I also prefer table syrup, I deeply dislike the flavour of maple.

With my deep, deep dislike of hockey, maple syrup, Tim Hortons coffee, The Tragically Hip, ketchup chips, Celine Dion, beer and marijuana, it's amazing they even let me stay in the country.

Although where I am in Newfoundland, being "in Canada" is almost a technicality.

Back on topic though, the kids here are VERY into sports because there's literally nothing else for them to do, so even the non-athletic kids play a ton of sports. And travel teams are necessary out here because the population is so spread out.

But they get more than a bit psycho about hockey. Like, the refs often need security...for children's hockey tournaments.

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #81 on: May 01, 2024, 07:12:53 PM »
You are just against all kids in team sports @Metalcat
:-p

Well I *do* really hate hockey.

You, madam, are a Canadian Imposter!!

note to others:  Metalcat and I are actually internet besties, and all above is said in jest. Itís how we show affection and the moderators need not be notified of our ad hominem tangents. I feel I will save this disclaimer to my clipboard and paste it whenever one of us offers the other a snarky response. Seriously, itís all good people.

Lol, nereo, that's like the least harsh insult you've ever thrown at me around here. I don't think that needed a disclaimer.

But yeah, I get told I'm a failed Canadian all the time for my hockey hate.
I dunno - to me it ranks right up there with @GuitarStv preference for flavored, dyed corn syrup (the former ďAunt JemimaĒ ) over real maple syrup.

It's chemically designed to be the purest form of what people want on pancakes!  How can filthy tree blood possibly compete????

I also prefer table syrup, I deeply dislike the flavour of maple.

With my deep, deep dislike of hockey, maple syrup, Tim Hortons coffee, The Tragically Hip, ketchup chips, Celine Dion, beer and marijuana, it's amazing they even let me stay in the country.

Although where I am in Newfoundland, being "in Canada" is almost a technicality.

Back on topic though, the kids here are VERY into sports because there's literally nothing else for them to do, so even the non-athletic kids play a ton of sports. And travel teams are necessary out here because the population is so spread out.

But they get more than a bit psycho about hockey. Like, the refs often need security...for children's hockey tournaments.

What is going on here? Do you never apologize?... Forgo saying eh?...Shut the door in people's faces for Pete's sake? Where does it end?

PoutineLover

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #82 on: May 01, 2024, 08:40:06 PM »
 
You are just against all kids in team sports @Metalcat
:-p

Well I *do* really hate hockey.

You, madam, are a Canadian Imposter!!

note to others:  Metalcat and I are actually internet besties, and all above is said in jest. Itís how we show affection and the moderators need not be notified of our ad hominem tangents. I feel I will save this disclaimer to my clipboard and paste it whenever one of us offers the other a snarky response. Seriously, itís all good people.

Lol, nereo, that's like the least harsh insult you've ever thrown at me around here. I don't think that needed a disclaimer.

But yeah, I get told I'm a failed Canadian all the time for my hockey hate.
I dunno - to me it ranks right up there with @GuitarStv preference for flavored, dyed corn syrup (the former ďAunt JemimaĒ ) over real maple syrup.

It's chemically designed to be the purest form of what people want on pancakes!  How can filthy tree blood possibly compete????

I also prefer table syrup, I deeply dislike the flavour of maple.

With my deep, deep dislike of hockey, maple syrup, Tim Hortons coffee, The Tragically Hip, ketchup chips, Celine Dion, beer and marijuana, it's amazing they even let me stay in the country.

Although where I am in Newfoundland, being "in Canada" is almost a technicality.

Back on topic though, the kids here are VERY into sports because there's literally nothing else for them to do, so even the non-athletic kids play a ton of sports. And travel teams are necessary out here because the population is so spread out.

But they get more than a bit psycho about hockey. Like, the refs often need security...for children's hockey tournaments.
Ok but what about Hawaiian pizza, which is clearly the best kind?

Metalcat

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #83 on: May 02, 2024, 04:18:00 AM »
What is going on here? Do you never apologize?... Forgo saying eh?...Shut the door in people's faces for Pete's sake? Where does it end?

Lol! I actually don't use the polite "sorry" and have trained many staff out of using it as well. That said, I wasn't raised by Canadians, I was raised by Danes who have a very different concept of politeness.

Metalcat

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #84 on: May 02, 2024, 04:21:38 AM »
Ok but what about Hawaiian pizza, which is clearly the best kind?

Hawaiian pizza is actually decent, I also do like poutine, and a bloody Caesar is orders of magnitude better than bloody Mary. I honestly don't understand how Americans haven't figured that one out yet.

PoutineLover

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #85 on: May 02, 2024, 05:44:53 AM »
Ok but what about Hawaiian pizza, which is clearly the best kind?

Hawaiian pizza is actually decent, I also do like poutine, and a bloody Caesar is orders of magnitude better than bloody Mary. I honestly don't understand how Americans haven't figured that one out yet.
OK that makes up somewhat for not liking ketchup chips.
Although I maintain that poutine is Quťbťcois, not Canadian, it's been appropriated.

Chris Pascale

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #86 on: July 08, 2024, 04:17:15 PM »
Ok but what about Hawaiian pizza, which is clearly the best kind?

Hawaiian pizza is actually decent, I also do like poutine, and a bloody Caesar is orders of magnitude better than bloody Mary. I honestly don't understand how Americans haven't figured that one out yet.

Where the hell are the moderators!????!?!?!!?!?!??!!?!!!

This place has gone to madness.

Metalcat

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #87 on: July 08, 2024, 05:58:43 PM »
Ok but what about Hawaiian pizza, which is clearly the best kind?

Hawaiian pizza is actually decent, I also do like poutine, and a bloody Caesar is orders of magnitude better than bloody Mary. I honestly don't understand how Americans haven't figured that one out yet.

Where the hell are the moderators!????!?!?!!?!?!??!!?!!!

This place has gone to madness.

What? You don't like a rich clam flavour in your cocktails??

GuitarStv

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #88 on: July 09, 2024, 08:41:24 AM »
"Hmm . . . this drink is OK, but it could use a bit more clam."
  - Said nobody anywhere, ever.

Metalcat

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #89 on: July 09, 2024, 08:56:08 AM »
"Hmm . . . this drink is OK, but it could use a bit more clam."
  - Said nobody anywhere, ever.

Sure, they never said it, but then they tried it, and it's glorious.


GuitarStv

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #90 on: July 09, 2024, 09:20:35 AM »
"Hmm . . . this drink is OK, but it could use a bit more clam."
  - Said nobody anywhere, ever.

Sure, they never said it, but then they tried it, and it's glorious.

It's like fish sauce.  I've never objectively thought adding fermented fish to food would be a good idea . . . but all that Chinese food with it in there somehow manages to be yummy.

nereo

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #91 on: July 09, 2024, 10:00:53 AM »
"Hmm . . . this drink is OK, but it could use a bit more clam."
  - Said nobody anywhere, ever.

Sure, they never said it, but then they tried it, and it's glorious.

It's like fish sauce.  I've never objectively thought adding fermented fish to food would be a good idea . . . but all that Chinese food with it in there somehow manages to be yummy.

I trace it back to our NA obsession with refrigeration and food "spoilage".  We've been conditioned to spurn the natural processes that are inherent with a lot of traditional food preservation (i.e. fermentation).  Stinky cheese, Fish Sauce, Kimchee, salted fish etc.   There's certainly a cultural superiority in there as well.  There's even the western clichť of sniffing every container from the fridge and asking "honey, does this smell bad to you??".  So much goes into the fridge that doesn't need to, and so much gets tossed out when its still good (see: confusion over "sell-by": and "best-buy" dates). 

So most North Americans are conditioned to hate the smell of fish sauce or shrimp paste or any other number of things that other cultures smell and their mouths water.

Metalcat

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Re: Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?
« Reply #92 on: July 09, 2024, 10:49:22 AM »
"Hmm . . . this drink is OK, but it could use a bit more clam."
  - Said nobody anywhere, ever.

Sure, they never said it, but then they tried it, and it's glorious.

It's like fish sauce.  I've never objectively thought adding fermented fish to food would be a good idea . . . but all that Chinese food with it in there somehow manages to be yummy.

I trace it back to our NA obsession with refrigeration and food "spoilage".  We've been conditioned to spurn the natural processes that are inherent with a lot of traditional food preservation (i.e. fermentation).  Stinky cheese, Fish Sauce, Kimchee, salted fish etc.   There's certainly a cultural superiority in there as well.  There's even the western clichť of sniffing every container from the fridge and asking "honey, does this smell bad to you??".  So much goes into the fridge that doesn't need to, and so much gets tossed out when its still good (see: confusion over "sell-by": and "best-buy" dates). 

So most North Americans are conditioned to hate the smell of fish sauce or shrimp paste or any other number of things that other cultures smell and their mouths water.

And yet somehow we Canadians just love that clammy goodness in our tomato-based cocktails