Is It Ok to Not Do Travel/Club Sports?

[englishteacheralex]

I've got a 9-year-old boy who is pretty athletic and very keen to play on a more competitive soccer team. I want that for him, but...

It's not even the money (which is not chump change). It's the time. We seem to live in a neighborhood that is a club team desert. The traffic in my city is awful. I can't find a sports club that doesn't involve a commute that I consider unacceptable. The logistics of trying to make this happen seem untenable to me.

I think AYSO (which we've done for the past four seasons) is going to have to do for the next several years. In our experience, AYSO has been long on participation and good vibes, and short on structure/fundamental skills, but it's a ten minute drive from our house.

I"m looking for justification for this decision, which is making my heart hurt a little. I want him to have the advantage of really good fundamental skills, but I'm hoping that he can make up the difference when he's older and there are more options available for this.

[nereo]

I was a top level athlete, as was my brother. Now that I’m a parent of a young but athletically gifted child I would ask. What kind of priorities do you want for your child?

You’ve hit the nail on the head about travel sports being an enormous time suck. It also very rapidly consumes both the kid and the parents entire life. This isn’t all bad, and I credit most of who I s as m today (good and bad) to the fact that I was hyper-focused on sport for almost my entire childhood s and through my20s. I learned how to manage my time far better than other kids my age and how to compartmentalization (both in good ways and bad). I also spent way more hours with my parents on trips and car rides than most of my friends.

But it also took me away from many social interactions. I was gone most weekends, Ann’s frankly so tired most weekends that I didn’t want to stay out past 10 even in highschool. I had a different path -through varsity athletics - than most other college kids.

What do you want for you and your kid?

[MaybeBabyMustache]

We did club sports, but I have a kid with ADHD, and it helped SO MUCH. Both to have a trained, professional coach (not to knock AYSO coaches - I was one myself) & to have kids who had more drive/focus for the sport. DS18 just stopped playing in the spring of his senior year. DS17 plays club soccer & plays 2 school sports.

However, the commute wasn't as bad for us. We're in the bay area, and there are at least 3 clubs I can think of. We did an endless sea of carpools. Like, endless organization of carpooling. If that's not an option for you, I say leave it behind without guilt.

For my ADHD kid, sports have been an absolute lifesaver for him. My 17 y.o. doesn't have ADHD, but is otherwise addicted to sports. I can also add, that for the kids who don't play sports, that time seems to be sucked up by gaming. Doesn't sound like it's an issue for you, but having something to focus on and keep them physical outside of being on the computer is critical for their age group.

[MaybeBabyMustache]

Forgot that we never did travel, until DS17 did a tournament in Las Vegas last year. We had the luxury of choosing a club without travel. Not sure how that would work due to your location, and whether there are enough teams to play locally at each level.

[englishteacheralex]

Traveling is kind of obligatory for sports in Hawaii. For club teams, it seems like you're pretty much going to have to travel to at least an outer island. The club websites are full of "news" about all the games on the mainland that the teams have done. Several of the teams are actually traveling internationally.

It's intimidating. A friend of mine whose son did club volleyball for just one year told me to never, ever let my kids do club. Her son is a talented volleyball player who played for school and now as a college student does a lot of reffing for high school games. She said the one year on club was so expensive and time-consuming she never allowed it again. And he seems to have done fine with the less-intense version of the sport, so...that's been an example I've been mentally holding to justify not joining an expensive team with a massive training/game schedule.

[FINate]

Yes, it's okay.

We intentionally don't do traveling teams. Mostly because it's a time suck, but also as a matter of principle. We've saved enough in 529s for both daughters to complete undergraduate degrees w/o debt. And the chance of any kid going pro is essentially zero. So I don't see the point in running the family ragged to chase the sports thing.

Our daughters do YCMA, AAU, and school teams. We sign them up for local sports camps if they want to advance further. If they have natural ability and drive they may make some high school teams, but if they don't that's totally fine.

Sometimes I'll be at a game where the parents are way too emotionally invested in the sport and I find myself wondering: what's everyone getting so upset/irritated about, don't they realize we're just here to watch kids throw a ball through a hoop. It's all kinda silly.

[Michael in ABQ]

F*** that noise.

We've got a couple of kids just running track and it's a huge disruption. For our son in high school, it's literally 5 minutes of him running out of 7-8 hours of track meet. So far, the meets have all been 2-3 hours away. Fortunately, he was able to get a ride with a teammate because we're just not willing to have our entire family of 8 sit around at a track meet getting sunburned for an entire Saturday. Add in the multiple practices every week and it's a constant juggle of who is picking up which kids at what time and relying on our in-laws to cover the gaps since our kid's school is 20 miles away.


I think it's beneficial for kids to be involved in sports (physical activity, teamwork, sportsmanship, positive influence of another adult who isn't their parents, etc.). But unless your kid won the genetic lottery and is highly motivated to dedicate their lives to that one sport, the chance of them even playing sports in college (let alone professional sports) is remote. I just attended a presentation on paying for college and the statistic presented was only 7% of kids who play sports in high school do so in college - and most of them aren't getting scholarships.

[MaybeBabyMustache]

Traveling is kind of obligatory for sports in Hawaii. For club teams, it seems like you're pretty much going to have to travel to at least an outer island. The club websites are full of "news" about all the games on the mainland that the teams have done. Several of the teams are actually traveling internationally.

It's intimidating. A friend of mine whose son did club volleyball for just one year told me to never, ever let my kids do club. Her son is a talented volleyball player who played for school and now as a college student does a lot of reffing for high school games. She said the one year on club was so expensive and time-consuming she never allowed it again. And he seems to have done fine with the less-intense version of the sport, so...that's been an example I've been mentally holding to justify not joining an expensive team with a massive training/game schedule.

In your case, I'm a no. It sounds much more extreme than what I'd consider.

[nereo]

For HS sports there is this metric focused on “whether s/he will play at the NCAA level, and potentially get a scholarship”

Whenever that’s the primary metric it’s an enormous red flag to me. Doing club in HS or middle school should not be all about college, and those that focus on the potential financial windfall (eg scholarships or endorsements) are setting themselves up for failure and IMO/E missing the far more important aspects.

First, the kid has to absolutely want to do this - above and beyond any other extracurricular. Children (and adults too) are way too susceptible to doing something simply because it’s become normalized. Can’t tell you how many elite athletes I trained with that were doing it simply because of inertia and because that’s what they knew, not because they really wanted to anymore.

Next, as the parent your responsibility is to ensure your kid remains healthy and well adjusted, and protect them from all sorts of abuse that’s normalized at the higher levels (abusive coaches, self-esteem issues, fixation’s on performance over more rational goal setting) and to make sure they are thriving as a person, not just as an athlete (scholastically, socially, emotionally). Done right club sports can be incredible, and do so much for your teen. Done wrong it can wreck their bodies, esteem and social interactions.

[Metalcat]

Not a parent, just a therapist dealing with the impacts of organized sports on young adults.

But I think travel teams should be much, much more the exception than the rule.

Some kids 1000% psychologically benefit from intensely organized sports, but I absolutely DO NOT believe that formal, competitive sports are by default a healthy thing to push kids into, nor do I think that being an over-scheduled family is a net benefit to most kids.

If you have a kid who is otherwise struggling and sports very clearly gives them benefits they can't get elsewhere, and the higher the spirt level, the more they are thriving, then yeah, you should *consider* if the chaos of putting them on a travel team is beneficial.

But if not?? People, IMO, should be a hell of a lot less quick to jump to assuming that organized sports are universally beneficial, and that higher level sports must be fundamentally even more beneficial.

In a world packed to the rafters with perfectionist people-pleasers who have a cripplingly poor sense of self due to a fixation on external measures of merit, organized sports may not be as beneficial as a lot of parents think they are.

[Metalcat]

For HS sports there is this metric focused on “whether s/he will play at the NCAA level, and potentially get a scholarship”

Whenever that’s the primary metric it’s an enormous red flag to me. Doing club in HS or middle school should not be all about college, and those that focus on the potential financial windfall (eg scholarships or endorsements) are setting themselves up for failure and IMO/E missing the far more important aspects.

First, the kid has to absolutely want to do this - above and beyond any other extracurricular. Children (and adults too) are way too susceptible to doing something simply because it’s become normalized. Can’t tell you how many elite athletes I trained with that were doing it simply because of inertia and because that’s what they knew, not because they really wanted to anymore.

Next, as the parent your responsibility is to ensure your kid remains healthy and well adjusted, and protect them from all sorts of abuse that’s normalized at the higher levels (abusive coaches, self-esteem issues, fixation’s on performance over more rational goal setting) and to make sure they are thriving as a person, not just as an athlete (scholastically, socially, emotionally). Done right club sports can be incredible, and do so much for your teen. Done wrong it can wreck their bodies, esteem and social interactions.

I had a very difficult time keeping my mouth shut in a social environment when a mom was recently talking about how her 11 year old daughter is in figure skating and doesn't really like it, but the mom is hounding the coach to push her harder because that's how "kids learn discipline."

Like fuck, it's figure skating. How insane do you have to be to impress upon a child who doesn't like figure skating, that somehow figure skating is an important priority??

How about spending time with her and teaching her basic cooking skills? Or financial skill? Or any of the other basic adulting skills that parents no longer have the time to teach their kids??

How the fuck can *spinning in circles on the ice* be the skills that this mom has decided are a top priority for her kid who doesn't want to *spin in circles on ice*???

[nereo]

I had a very difficult time keeping my mouth shut in a social environment when a mom was recently talking about how her 11 year old daughter is in figure skating and doesn't really like it, but the mom is hounding the coach to push her harder because that's how "kids learn discipline."

Like fuck, it's figure skating. How insane do you have to be to impress upon a child who doesn't like figure skating, that somehow figure skating is an important priority??

How about spending time with her and teaching her basic cooking skills? Or financial skill? Or any of the other basic adulting skills that parents no longer have the time to teach their kids??

How the fuck can *spinning in circles on the ice* be the skills that this mom has decided are a top priority for her kid who doesn't want to *spin in circles on ice*???

These kinds of interactions are common enough that they are their own cliche in youth sports - the kid pushed on by their parents (because they can be great or need discipline or
Focus or whatever). It’s something to avoid, absolutely.

At the opposite end, I can’t tell you how many of my peers were pressured to quit by their parents after being given “the talk” by their coach - basically that while they are very good at the HS level they were probably going to be training squad material and never get a “full ride”. It crushed several of my close friends because they really wanted to keep training and competing, but their participation was put to them in starkly economical terms and so their personal value was distilled into whether or not they were “good enough” to make back the “investment” of club sports once they got into college. The worst part is when your parent reinforces this by framing your participation in “are you good enough for a scholarship” terms.

That’s why I began my post by saying the decision should never be primarily one about economics.

[ScreamingHeadGuy]

It is very OK not to engage in travel sports.

[Metalcat]

I had a very difficult time keeping my mouth shut in a social environment when a mom was recently talking about how her 11 year old daughter is in figure skating and doesn't really like it, but the mom is hounding the coach to push her harder because that's how "kids learn discipline."

Like fuck, it's figure skating. How insane do you have to be to impress upon a child who doesn't like figure skating, that somehow figure skating is an important priority??

How about spending time with her and teaching her basic cooking skills? Or financial skill? Or any of the other basic adulting skills that parents no longer have the time to teach their kids??

How the fuck can *spinning in circles on the ice* be the skills that this mom has decided are a top priority for her kid who doesn't want to *spin in circles on ice*???

These kinds of interactions are common enough that they are their own cliche in youth sports - the kid pushed on by their parents (because they can be great or need discipline or
Focus or whatever). It’s something to avoid, absolutely.

At the opposite end, I can’t tell you how many of my peers were pressured to quit by their parents after being given “the talk” by their coach - basically that while they are very good at the HS level they were probably going to be training squad material and never get a “full ride”. It crushed several of my close friends because they really wanted to keep training and competing, but their participation was put to them in starkly economical terms and so their personal value was distilled into whether or not they were “good enough” to make back the “investment” of club sports once they got into college. The worst part is when your parent reinforces this by framing your participation in “are you good enough for a scholarship” terms.

That’s why I began my post by saying the decision should never be primarily one about economics.

Yeah, that's much less of a thing here in Canada, but for sure, pinning educational aspirations on sports performance seems like a pretty high-risk pressure to put on children.

[Jakestersquat]

I would highly recommend Linda Flanagan book “Take back the game”. I discovered her through a podcast call 1000 hours outside. There are plenty of reasons to not do highly competitive or travel sports. It’s perfectly ok not to.

[nereo]

I had a very difficult time keeping my mouth shut in a social environment when a mom was recently talking about how her 11 year old daughter is in figure skating and doesn't really like it, but the mom is hounding the coach to push her harder because that's how "kids learn discipline."

Like fuck, it's figure skating. How insane do you have to be to impress upon a child who doesn't like figure skating, that somehow figure skating is an important priority??

How about spending time with her and teaching her basic cooking skills? Or financial skill? Or any of the other basic adulting skills that parents no longer have the time to teach their kids??

How the fuck can *spinning in circles on the ice* be the skills that this mom has decided are a top priority for her kid who doesn't want to *spin in circles on ice*???

These kinds of interactions are common enough that they are their own cliche in youth sports - the kid pushed on by their parents (because they can be great or need discipline or
Focus or whatever). It’s something to avoid, absolutely.

At the opposite end, I can’t tell you how many of my peers were pressured to quit by their parents after being given “the talk” by their coach - basically that while they are very good at the HS level they were probably going to be training squad material and never get a “full ride”. It crushed several of my close friends because they really wanted to keep training and competing, but their participation was put to them in starkly economical terms and so their personal value was distilled into whether or not they were “good enough” to make back the “investment” of club sports once they got into college. The worst part is when your parent reinforces this by framing your participation in “are you good enough for a scholarship” terms.

That’s why I began my post by saying the decision should never be primarily one about economics.

Yeah, that's much less of a thing here in Canada, but for sure, pinning educational aspirations on sports performance seems like a pretty high-risk pressure to put on children.

Doing grad school in Canada, I was utterly fascinated by how different the university-level sports culture was. My university were the national football champions during my tenure (second most popular sport in Canada by viewership, btw) and has a top tier hockey program (the undisputed number one sport). But the attention paid to the sports was almost non-existent compared to, say, Alabama with football or Connecticut for basketball. Our football stadium could be mistaken for a high school in Texas, and many home games wouldn’t even sell out. Profs didn’t GAF that a student was in the athletic program or give them preferential treatment, and I even taught a young man for an entire semester befordd we learning that he was good enough to get drafted into an NHL-minor league team (meaning he was probably one of the top ~200 active players in the world). In the US they would be a BFD within the university. In Canada… not so much.

[PoutineLover]

My kid is too young to do any organized sports yet, but I plan to take a similar approach to what my parents did. We signed up for rec centre classes in a variety of sports, with lots of swimming because that's an important life skill. I played on a couple different high school teams (not a competitive school).

Never got too far into any one sport until there was one that clicked with me, and then I did some extra of that one, and it turned into an adult hobby that brings me a lot of exercise, social fulfillment and joy.

I don't see the point of spending tons of money and time on a sport, but I do think it's important for kids to have lots of active time and the chance to try different things and make friends. I'm very wary of the potential for abuse and excessive pressure in competitive sports, and the time suck it can be, so I'm not planning on taking part unless somehow my child is a real prodigy, then we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

[Metalcat]

Doing grad school in Canada, I was utterly fascinated by how different the university-level sports culture was. My university were the national football champions during my tenure (second most popular sport in Canada by viewership, btw) and has a top tier hockey program (the undisputed number one sport). But the attention paid to the sports was almost non-existent compared to, say, Alabama with football or Connecticut for basketball. Our football stadium could be mistaken for a high school in Texas, and many home games wouldn’t even sell out. Profs didn’t GAF that a student was in the athletic program or give them preferential treatment, and I even taught a young man for an entire semester befordd we learning that he was good enough to get drafted into an NHL-minor league team (meaning he was probably one of the top ~200 active players in the world). In the US they would be a BFD within the university. In Canada… not so much.

Yeah, I went to the superstar basketball university in Canada, and no one really cared about the players. I literally didn't even know that my sister was a champion varsity athlete and we went to the same school.

I found out a few years later because I googled her for some reason and when I mentioned it she shrugged and said "it's just golf." Note for anyone confused, I'm from a complex blended family and have multiple siblings I've barely lived with. My sister and I talked about academics, not sports.

Even then, kids in travel sports had exploded here in Canada. Growing up, virtually no one was in travel sports, but now almost all of my parent friends whine endlessly about the scheduling demands of competitive athletics.

The US kids' sports culture has definitely infected parents up here that they believe they're somehow shitty parents if their kids aren't "achieving their full potential" as athletes.

I've watched it happen steadily with a certain degree of concern that is evolving into light horror.

Again, I fully recognize that *some* kids benefit enormously from heavily organized, highly competitive, performance-driven sports. I just don't buy the universal benefit that seems to be shoved down parents' throats these days.

[englishteacheralex]

I really appreciate all the responses! I wish there were a sort of happy medium where the rec team was a bit more organized and they paid their coaches and refs, but there wasn't a bunch of pressure and traveling and fund raising. I haven't been able to find a league in this sweet spot, though.

All the perspective-putting with youth sports has been super helpful on this thread. My kiddo really likes soccer but I'm just not finding good options for it, and that's going to have to be ok. Yesterday while I was researching I did find a swim team that seems to be in that rec team sweet spot, AND it's not a horrible commute for us, so I'm thinking we'll give that a shot, even though he's only "meh" on swimming. His sister is pretty open to swimming, so we'll do both kids. Swimming was my major competitive sport growing up, and it was great for me, but I always regretted not forcing myself to do more team sports.

I also just signed kiddo up for drumming lessons, because he's been talking about wanting to do that for years.

[Plugging Along]

Of course it's okay to not do travel sports, it is also ok to do them.  There are pros and cons to both sides.

This is a question of what is the best fit for your child AND your family based on your goals and values, and what you and the kids are looking to get out of it. 

My oldest is in club soccer, but with minimal travel.   We pay about $900 a season (2 seasons a year here)   She likes it.  It's good for mental and physical health.  She will not any further than high school with this.  In fact, her school is so competitive with 2800 kids (only grades 10-12 here)  she didn't even make the school team due to over 100 club kids trying out for the one team.  We told her she could do it as long as she liked.  That's the main benefit.

The youngest, is in club soccer AND All Star Cheer.  She only does soccer for one season, but her team does well and tends to travel.  Her All star Cheer is ridiculously expensive  Fees start about $2.5k, then uniforms, comp fees, extra tumbling/private lessons, then the travel, it's another $10k a year easily.  We are in Canada, so cheer is not very popular here, and none of it will be used after she quits cheer.  In fact, cheer is one of those sports that you can't really just do a 'pick up' cheer unlike soccer or other sport, you can play for fun when older.  Other than the same mental health, physical benefits, the only reason we stick with it is that she absolutely loves it.  There is will no tangible benefit of scholarships or usefulness later in life.  In fact, the athletes are really catty in cheer.  Yet, we still get her to practice up to 6 times a week across part of our city (up to 40 minutes each way), go to these expensive competitions.    Why because she loves it, and it does build so many softer skills and build character.

Could we get these same benefits in non club or travel?  Yes, but the deciding factor is that it's what kids are passionate about.  We have tried to do less expensive/time consuming options, but this is what they want. 

If I could have the youngest in non-travel I would, as I shell out another $5k for a US competiion for the end of this month, and we have no friends on the team. 

My point is, base your answer on you family and kid dynamic.

[jeninco]

I have answers on both sides of the original question, but I wanted to mention something else:

We initially choose sports based on the teachers/coaches. Seriously, we met the head coach of one of the two local soccer programs, and we found him a great fit in terms of our family's values and as what we wanted for a role model for our kids. Same thing when I went looking for a martial art for our kids: The Sensei at one of the local Aikido Dojos was absolutely fantastic, and I would've absolutely driven across town to get my kids into his classes. (As it turns out, Hippistan is pretty compressed, so they could bike over there.)

A lot of the objections I see to club/traveling sports is around the coaches and the implied values of the programs. You have some ability to choose programs and (at least head) coaches who are a closer fit to what you value. Yeah, we got some dud coaches over the years (both kids played soccer from 5 or 6 through High School), but we'd had enough good ones that everyone was aware of who was just a poor coach/poor role model (note for the teachers out there: not that we ever were direct with the kids about bad coaches or bad teachers! We insisted that they be respectful either way, but we didn't contradict their -- accurate -- assessments). In fact, I'd argue that having a bunch of non-family (but sort of pre-screened) role models was a really good experience for both of our kids. And around here, the soccer teams are one of the few genuinely integrated activities for both the kids and the families.

Anyhow, if club soccer doesn't fit into your family's schedule, don't make yourself crazy doing it. Given the character of your kid, though, I'd keep an eye out for loads of other activities and sports, and check out the programs!

[shelivesthedream]

Bit left-field, but have you tried reading (auto)biographies of some top athletes? I'd be interest to know the varieties of ways in which their talent and interest was nurtured and I'll bet not all of them spent their lives in the car on the way to tournaments. I happen to think the emphasis and pressure placed on young athletes is hugely psychologically damaging and actively doing almost all of those kids a disservice.

[englishteacheralex]

The pressure of club/travel sports is probably NOT great for kids, I agree. I have no delusions that sports would get DS some kind of scholarship or a career in professional sports. Interesting idea about figuring out how pro-athletes become pros...I have no idea how that happens, actually. It seems like all the Olympians they do profiles about have stories of insane sacrifices that their families made for sport, and those stories always seem kind of messed up to me.

The major things I would have liked competitive soccer to do for DS is give him teamwork skills, discipline, time-management from having the extra activity in his life, and a lifelong love of physical fitness plus a sport he could play in a pickup fashion until his knees give out in his upper thirties (just conjecture based on what I hear from my soccer-playing friends).

So those objectives will have to be met in different ways from club soccer, because the cost to benefit ratio for club soccer just isn't there for us. I'm just trying to feel ok about not giving DS an opportunity that he wants; an opportunity that in some ways I think would be awesome for him...but it would really throw off the logistics and finances of our family.

[Metalcat]

The pressure of club/travel sports is probably NOT great for kids, I agree. I have no delusions that sports would get DS some kind of scholarship or a career in professional sports. Interesting idea about figuring out how pro-athletes become pros...I have no idea how that happens, actually. It seems like all the Olympians they do profiles about have stories of insane sacrifices that their families made for sport, and those stories always seem kind of messed up to me.

The major things I would have liked competitive soccer to do for DS is give him teamwork skills, discipline, time-management from having the extra activity in his life, and a lifelong love of physical fitness plus a sport he could play in a pickup fashion until his knees give out in his upper thirties (just conjecture based on what I hear from my soccer-playing friends).

So those objectives will have to be met in different ways from club soccer, because the cost to benefit ratio for club soccer just isn't there for us. I'm just trying to feel ok about not giving DS an opportunity that he wants; an opportunity that in some ways I think would be awesome for him...but it would really throw off the logistics and finances of our family.

Just a note, I cannot tell you how many patients I've had over the years who literally CANNOT casually enjoy the competitive sport they did when they were younger because the competition element got so savagely beaten into their poor brains.

Your soccer-playing friends will obviously display sampling bias, it's only the ones who still play soccer who will talk about how childhood competitive soccer is the reason they still play. But they are not necessarily representative of the population of childhood competitive soccer players.

Many of them can't stomach participating in an activity they used to engage in competitively once age and lack of consistent practice once they grow up and have jobs/obligation, starts impacting their performance.

What I *have* seen fairly consistently imbue a lifelong love of sports into kinds well into their adult years is when kids play sports with their parents/families.

My DH never played competitive sports, he grew up too poor. But his main activity with his father was casual sports, like pick-up basketball. To this day, in his 50s he plays basketball with local kids for at least 10 hrs/week all season until it's just a few degrees above freezing.

Note, he specifically doesn't play with the travel-team kids because they are not very good at having fun while playing and they make the other kids feel like shit for having poor level skill. They're not at all cruel, they're good kids, but for them the purpose of playing is winning and improving skill to increase their chances of winning. It's like they've lost the ability to even understand completely casual play with other children.

[FINate]

I really appreciate all the responses! I wish there were a sort of happy medium where the rec team was a bit more organized and they paid their coaches and refs, but there wasn't a bunch of pressure and traveling and fund raising. I haven't been able to find a league in this sweet spot, though.  do that for years.

Your location says Honolulu, is that correct? If it is, you have AYSO in your area (https://www.ayso178.org/) and this is exactly what you're looking for.

ETA: Just re-read your OP and apparently you're already doing AYSO. Honestly, I would just stay in that...

The major things I would have liked competitive soccer to do for DS is give him teamwork skills, discipline, time-management from having the extra activity in his life, and a lifelong love of physical fitness plus a sport he could play in a pickup fashion until his knees give out in his upper thirties (just conjecture based on what I hear from my soccer-playing friends).

AYSO provides all the benefits you're looking for w/o the awful downsides of travel clubs.

[sasha520]

I think it's fine. You have to look at your life and decide what your priorities are.

My daughter is very gifted athletically, and academically to be honest, but I value neither. So I don't push her into more competitive sports (she plays rec league soccer) and I unschool her.

This is coming from someone who played highly competitive sports and was on the dean's list for my MBA.

Rat race stuff isn't for me anymore. I don't want it for my kids either.

Have you read Kim John Payne's book 'Simplicity Parenting'? He touches on sports a bit in that one, and I loved his book. He has one specifically about sports that I'll link here (I haven't read it, but he's wise, and it's relevant)

https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Winning-Parenting-Sports-Environment/dp/0762786655

[CNM]

Yes, it's OK not to do travel/club sports.

There came a time in my kid's sports life where baseball was taking an outsized amount of time-- several (long) games a week, and practices.  If he was extremely into it perhaps I would have considered sticking with it, but when I asked if he wanted to do baseball versus any of the other afterschool activities he enjoyed, he ditched baseball quickly. 

As a rising middle schooler now, he still will play sports (mainly tennis and skiing, and whatever the neighborhood kids are playing), he gets outside a lot, and we are much less hurried.  So it's not like he gave up baseball and is now a couch potato. We have time to take excursions over the weekend and have time during the week for homework and fun stuff.

[brandon1827]

I think each situation is particular to each family/athlete and their values, circumstances, etc.

My son is 14 and we have never done travel sports until this year. He's played rec league baseball and basketball pretty much since he was 4 or 5 and it's what he loves to do the most. He also made the middle school basketball team last year and this year. After the end of our season this year, his middle school coach asked him to join their AAU team. The team is mostly comprised of kids he plays on the school team with and the tournaments are all within an hour drive of our house. We love the coach, he's a great guy that coaches the right way and doesn't pressure the kids. He focuses on long-term development, sportsmanship, teamwork, etc. all the things you want your kid to learn. That plus the fact that this team is made up of most of my son's best friends from the school he attends made it a no-brainer for us. The cost is only $450 which essentially covers all the tournament entry fees from March through August plus uniforms. So far it has been all positive as the boys have a blast together and playing the game has improved their chemistry as a team...which should help them be more successful as they transition to high school next year.

The bottom line is that we do this, because my son loves it, and wants to participate. If he didn't want to, wasn't enjoying it, or we noticed it affecting his mental or emotional well-being in a negative manner, that would be the end of it. He's a very social kid, so being able to hang out with friends outside of school has been something that makes him happy, plus he loves the game and wants to play it pretty much 24/7. We get home from practice, and all he wants to do is go out and get shots up in the driveway. I say all of that to say that we haven't yet experienced any negatives...but I realize we are brand new to it and that could come with time. There is no thought to this being an avenue to a college scholarship (although if you asked my son his dream job would be NBA player). For now, he is enjoying it and we will continue to provide him with that opportunity as long as it stays that way.

[Metalcat]

I think each situation is particular to each family/athlete and their values, circumstances, etc.

My son is 14 and we have never done travel sports until this year. He's played rec league baseball and basketball pretty much since he was 4 or 5 and it's what he loves to do the most. He also made the middle school basketball team last year and this year. After the end of our season this year, his middle school coach asked him to join their AAU team. The team is mostly comprised of kids he plays on the school team with and the tournaments are all within an hour drive of our house. We love the coach, he's a great guy that coaches the right way and doesn't pressure the kids. He focuses on long-term development, sportsmanship, teamwork, etc. all the things you want your kid to learn. That plus the fact that this team is made up of most of my son's best friends from the school he attends made it a no-brainer for us. The cost is only $450 which essentially covers all the tournament entry fees from March through August plus uniforms. So far it has been all positive as the boys have a blast together and playing the game has improved their chemistry as a team...which should help them be more successful as they transition to high school next year.

The bottom line is that we do this, because my son loves it, and wants to participate. If he didn't want to, wasn't enjoying it, or we noticed it affecting his mental or emotional well-being in a negative manner, that would be the end of it. He's a very social kid, so being able to hang out with friends outside of school has been something that makes him happy, plus he loves the game and wants to play it pretty much 24/7. We get home from practice, and all he wants to do is go out and get shots up in the driveway. I say all of that to say that we haven't yet experienced any negatives...but I realize we are brand new to it and that could come with time. There is no thought to this being an avenue to a college scholarship (although if you asked my son his dream job would be NBA player). For now, he is enjoying it and we will continue to provide him with that opportunity as long as it stays that way.

For sure, some kids get a ton of benefit.

I know a kid who essentially put herself in intense sports because she and her therapist both agreed it would be best for her mental health issues.

Sports CAN be great for SOME kids. The point many are making in this thread is that no parent should feel guilty about not putting their kid into highly competitive travel sports because the benefits are nowhere near as universal as our culture makes them out to be.

Especially when compared to more quality time with family.

[Newday]

Just thinking about it is giving me a headache. My friend has 2 boys in travel sports and it’s crazy (to Me)  how they are always busy - breathing and living sports. But it works for their family
And they love it!

[jeninco]

<snip>
The major things I would have liked competitive soccer to do for DS is give him teamwork skills, discipline, time-management from having the extra activity in his life, and a lifelong love of physical fitness plus a sport he could play in a pickup fashion until his knees give out in his upper thirties (just conjecture based on what I hear from my soccer-playing friends).

So those objectives will have to be met in different ways from club soccer, because the cost to benefit ratio for club soccer just isn't there for us. I'm just trying to feel ok about not giving DS an opportunity that he wants; an opportunity that in some ways I think would be awesome for him...but it would really throw off the logistics and finances of our family.

Just a note, I cannot tell you how many patients I've had over the years who literally CANNOT casually enjoy the competitive sport they did when they were younger because the competition element got so savagely beaten into their poor brains.

Your soccer-playing friends will obviously display sampling bias, it's only the ones who still play soccer who will talk about how childhood competitive soccer is the reason they still play. But they are not necessarily representative of the population of childhood competitive soccer players.

Many of them can't stomach participating in an activity they used to engage in competitively once age and lack of consistent practice once they grow up and have jobs/obligation, starts impacting their performance.

What I *have* seen fairly consistently imbue a lifelong love of sports into kinds well into their adult years is when kids play sports with their parents/families.

My DH never played competitive sports, he grew up too poor. But his main activity with his father was casual sports, like pick-up basketball. To this day, in his 50s he plays basketball with local kids for at least 10 hrs/week all season until it's just a few degrees above freezing.

Note, he specifically doesn't play with the travel-team kids because they are not very good at having fun while playing and they make the other kids feel like shit for having poor level skill. They're not at all cruel, they're good kids, but for them the purpose of playing is winning and improving skill to increase their chances of winning. It's like they've lost the ability to even understand completely casual play with other children.

My DH and some friends play "old guy indoor soccer" once/week, which has rules like "don't run into other people, one or both of you will get hurt" and "play with finesse, you crass dude you". (I think they word them differently.) But this is helping me realize that the several times/year parents/kids games that we participated in and/or organized were a huge deal. Along with being really fun, because until you watch a bunch of competitive high school players pause to pass the ball to someone's 5-year old sister, wait for her to take the ball a bit of the way up the field and pass it, and them resume closely marking each other you're missing out on the soccer spectating experience.

Come to think of it, the coach who runs the indoor facility strategically organizes Friday/Saturday older-kid-aged games so that it's social and friendly. The kids can get pretty competitive on the field (in leagues where that's appropriate) but tone is supervised pretty carefully. Also, he deliberately alternates boys/girls/coed games so that the kids hang out and cheer for each other.

My favorite was the December evening when the indoor game turned out to be "(top 10 in the country)High school A team vs. group of 13-year olds whose coach thought it'd be a good idea to put them in the upper league. After the HS team was ahead 10-0, the kid re-grouped, re-organized the teams -- there were colored pinnies available -- and set themselves up so they were marking appropriate opposing players. The little kids were so excited when they came off! The bigger kids ... well, two of them tried to get set up for a bicycle kick 8 times before the thing finally went in... It felt like a Christmas miracle, and I sent the HS coach a lovely note, complementing his players. The tone, which could've been ugly in a number of different ways, was supportive and friendly and collegial.

And, I suppose, THAT is why it's worth going coach- and program- shopping. Because the coach that organizes friendly indoor futsal games in the off-season where the kids are encouraged to actually have FUN is the one who has his priorities straight!

[iris lily]

My only experience with sports travel teams is on weekends when I stay at a hotel that caters to conferences and sports travel teams. There are invariably pasels of kids running up and down the hallways. And of course they have to push all the buttons on the elevator so that anyone going up will have to stop at Every. FKNG.  Floor.

Grrrrrr

Is this travel team stuff peculiar to the United States in Canada? Does it happen in Europe?

[Metalcat]

My only experience with sports travel teams is on weekends when I stay at a hotel that caters to conferences and sports travel teams. There are invariably pasels of kids running up and down the hallways. And of course they have to push all the buttons on the elevator so that anyone going up will have to stop at Every. FKNG.  Floor.

Grrrrrr

Is this travel team stuff peculiar to the United States in Canada? Does it happen in Europe?

My very first experience with travel teams was getting stuck in a hotel where all of the travel teams were staying for a long weekend. I think I was literally the only non-travel team guest.

It was a shit show.

The parents and the players who were 18 partied their fucking faces off. The legal age in Montreal is 18, so the older players were going to full-contact strip clubs every night, and the parents were up partying until sunrise every night.

It was fucking insane.

I was fascinated and got into partying with a bunch of them and became enthralled by the social politics, hostilities, gossip, affairs, etc. It was so batshit insane it was like watching a slow motion train wreck.

It was kind of like a giant hotel-wide frat party but with little children running around everywhere like feral critters.

Never seen anything like it. I'm still a bit traumatized by the experience if I'm honest.

[Sibley]

My only experience with sports travel teams is on weekends when I stay at a hotel that caters to conferences and sports travel teams. There are invariably pasels of kids running up and down the hallways. And of course they have to push all the buttons on the elevator so that anyone going up will have to stop at Every. FKNG.  Floor.

Grrrrrr

Is this travel team stuff peculiar to the United States in Canada? Does it happen in Europe?

My very first experience with travel teams was getting stuck in a hotel where all of the travel teams were staying for a long weekend. I think I was literally the only non-travel team guest.

It was a shit show.

The parents and the players who were 18 partied their fucking faces off. The legal age in Montreal is 18, so the older players were going to full-contact strip clubs every night, and the parents were up partying until sunrise every night.

It was fucking insane.

I was fascinated and got into partying with a bunch of them and became enthralled by the social politics, hostilities, gossip, affairs, etc. It was so batshit insane it was like watching a slow motion train wreck.

It was kind of like a giant hotel-wide frat party but with little children running around everywhere like feral critters.

Never seen anything like it. I'm still a bit traumatized by the experience if I'm honest.

May I recommend that you attend one of the big geek conventions? Comic Con, Dragon Con, etc. If possible, stay in one of the onsite host hotels, or at minimum plan to visit the host hotel for a long period of time. I can personally speak to DragonCon in Atlanta over Labor Day weekend. Adults, not kids, but otherwise you might enjoy it. Message me if you want more detail. I'll be going this year :)

[Metalcat]

My only experience with sports travel teams is on weekends when I stay at a hotel that caters to conferences and sports travel teams. There are invariably pasels of kids running up and down the hallways. And of course they have to push all the buttons on the elevator so that anyone going up will have to stop at Every. FKNG.  Floor.

Grrrrrr

Is this travel team stuff peculiar to the United States in Canada? Does it happen in Europe?

My very first experience with travel teams was getting stuck in a hotel where all of the travel teams were staying for a long weekend. I think I was literally the only non-travel team guest.

It was a shit show.

The parents and the players who were 18 partied their fucking faces off. The legal age in Montreal is 18, so the older players were going to full-contact strip clubs every night, and the parents were up partying until sunrise every night.

It was fucking insane.

I was fascinated and got into partying with a bunch of them and became enthralled by the social politics, hostilities, gossip, affairs, etc. It was so batshit insane it was like watching a slow motion train wreck.

It was kind of like a giant hotel-wide frat party but with little children running around everywhere like feral critters.

Never seen anything like it. I'm still a bit traumatized by the experience if I'm honest.

May I recommend that you attend one of the big geek conventions? Comic Con, Dragon Con, etc. If possible, stay in one of the onsite host hotels, or at minimum plan to visit the host hotel for a long period of time. I can personally speak to DragonCon in Atlanta over Labor Day weekend. Adults, not kids, but otherwise you might enjoy it. Message me if you want more detail. I'll be going this year :)

Nooooooo thank you. This was many, many years ago during a much more self-destructive phase of my life, and even then, I was more entertained by it as almost an anthropological experience, not a full-on enjoying it experience.

It was like some twilight zone shit where I expected a quiet weekend and ended up in what felt like an alternate dimension.

It amused me, but there's no way I would want to ever replicate the experience.

[LiveLean]

The top five players in the NBA grew up in other countries. The best player in Major League Baseball is Japanese. There are fewer Americans in Major League Baseball and the NHL every year. We're the only country stupid enough to play tackle football, so we still have that.

My point: travel/club sports are not creating better athletes in this country, just another way for parents to micromanage their kids schedules under the more-is-more mentality. The problem is kids no longer play on their own. Instead, parents put them in "organized" soccer and baseball/T-ball at the age of 3, which is absurd, and quickly funnel them into club/travel, which is more absurd. Kids routinely reach the age of 18 without having every played without adult supervision. Is it producing better athletes? Heck, no. In fact, today's AAU basketball is more like rec league ball was a generation ago and rec league ball is more like what we thought of as pick-up ball. Any American male over 45 can play a respectable game of basketball regardless of whether he ever played organized hoops because it was the default game you played after school in someone's driveway -- something that never happens anymore. I coached one of my son's 7th grade rec basketball teams and it was clear that one kid had never played. Not once.

I've seen it from both ends. Our older son was in competitive swimming, which is a different animal -- six days a week, 9 practices a week, 50 weeks a year. No sport is as demanding on the time of kids and their family. But every kid who got through high school in our club program in that era ended up swimming in college, including all of the D1 swim powerhouses. Our kid used it to get into an Ivy League school and swim. Three of his former club teammates have swam in the Olympics, including a gold medalist. So, yeah, it can produce results.

But is travel/club for everyone? No. Of course not. Keep your sanity and let your kid dictate what s/he wants, which likely is not to play club/travel.

[roomtempmayo]

Just thinking about it is giving me a headache. My friend has 2 buys in travel sports and it’s crazy (to Me)  how they are always busy - breathing and living sports. But it works for their family
And they love it!

I know people for whom the #1 goal of their adult lives is to drive a black Suburban all over the state to kids' tournaments.  The $$$ vehicle, the hours and hours on the freeway, the chain hotels, the bad pizza - it's all a feature, not a bug.

It's our personal nightmare.  As parents of a toddler now, we're just hoping in every way possible to avoid getting socially sucked into it.

[nereo]

Just thinking about it is giving me a headache. My friend has 2 buys in travel sports and it’s crazy (to Me)  how they are always busy - breathing and living sports. But it works for their family
And they love it!

I know people for whom the #1 goal of their adult lives is to drive a black Suburban all over the state to kids' tournaments.  The $$$ vehicle, the hours and hours on the freeway, the chain hotels, the bad pizza - it's all a feature, not a bug.

Oh absolutely.  There were definitely the "team parents" who lived and breathed the sport.  Sometimes it seemed that they wanted it far more than their child-athlete did.

Not all that surprising when you think about it - how many people follow pro-sports teams from game to game, listen to hours of sports talk radio, even when they have a lousy year.  Literally following paid adults who are only on that team because of the particulars of the contract they could get at the moment they signed it.

So in comparison I get why people are even more involved when it's their own child and their friends as opposed to a group of strangers they will likely never meet.

[roomtempmayo]

So in comparison I get why people are even more involved when it's their own child and their friends as opposed to a group of strangers they will likely never meet.

I do understand how people get really into their kids' sports.  That's not a mystery.  I can't wait to play catch or shoot hoops with our daughter.

What I just don't get is the desire to take something that's historically been cheap, fun, and required de minimus effort from parents - after school sports run by schools - and turn them into an expensive, time consuming ordeal for families.  As far as I can tell, there's a subset of parents that actively wants to build a big apparatus around kids' sports, and other people get sucked along.

[GuitarStv]

F*** that noise.

...

I think it's beneficial for kids to be involved in sports (physical activity, teamwork, sportsmanship, positive influence of another adult who isn't their parents, etc.). But unless your kid won the genetic lottery and is highly motivated to dedicate their lives to that one sport, the chance of them even playing sports in college (let alone professional sports) is remote. I just attended a presentation on paying for college and the statistic presented was only 7% of kids who play sports in high school do so in college - and most of them aren't getting scholarships.

That's pretty much exactly where I stand.  Sports and exercise are great, they've got a lot of value.  But that value isn't really significantly increased by expensive travel and playing the top people in the city, province, country, world.  Get your kid to sign up and try out many different activities rather than specializing in one.

[roomtempmayo]

That’s why I began my post by saying the decision should never be primarily one about economics.

I remember seeing a comment about the absurdity of looking at chasing a scholarship as an "investment" that showed what a colossally bad investment it would be even if it 100% pans out.

Let's say you live in Michigan and do 10 years of high level hockey coaching and travel hockey all year for an average of $10k/year that ultimately lead to a full tuition scholarship at the University of Michigan.  Over four years, assuming 100% of sticker price, that scholarship is worth $73,236.  Huge success!

Except if you invested what you spent on travel hockey in a 529 at 7% you'd have $138,109 on the first day of freshman year.

The best case scenario investment for the hockey* underperforms the bog standard 529 case by $64,873.

*I say this is the best case scenario because while there are hockey schools with higher tuition (Colgate, Boston College, Notre Dame) they all have very high discount rates, and it's unlikely the value of the scholarship would come anywhere close to the sticker price.

[nereo]

What I just don't get is the desire to take something that's historically been cheap, fun, and required de minimus effort from parents - after school sports run by schools - and turn them into an expensive, time consuming ordeal for families.  As far as I can tell, there's a subset of parents that actively wants to build a big apparatus around kids' sports, and other people get sucked along.

I see similar tendencies to make things more complicated and expensive in our society in general, particularly in sports.  Blame marketing if you want.

Take running as an example (formerly called "jogging" - but that didn't sound hard-core enough).  You can be a runner with little more than a decent pair of shoes (or not).  yet somehow the industry has morphed into the cheapest possible physical activity to one that a typical "runner" can spend thousand$ on, even before race entry fees.  Most runners I know now have special shoes, running socks, post-workout compressions socks, heart-rate monitors, gps trackers, performance-wicking clothes, special sunglasses, skin balm, and an array of pre, post and during workout power-ups.

For whatever reason there's a desire build expensive apparatuses around any activity.  Human nature I guess...

[nereo]

That’s why I began my post by saying the decision should never be primarily one about economics.

I remember seeing a comment about the absurdity of looking at chasing a scholarship as an "investment" that showed what a colossally bad investment it would be even if it 100% pans out.

Let's say you live in Michigan and do 10 years of high level hockey coaching and travel hockey all year that ultimately lead to a full tuition scholarship at the University of Michigan.  Over four years, assuming 100% of sticker price, that scholarship is worth $73,236.  Huge success!

Except if you invested what you spent on travel hockey in a 529 at 7% you'd have $138,109 on the first day of freshman year.

The best case scenario investment for the hockey* underperforms the bog standard 529 case by $64,873.

*I say this is the best case scenario because while there are hockey schools with higher tuition (Colgate, Boston College, Notre Dame) they all have very high discount rates, and it's unlikely the value of the scholarship would come anywhere close to the sticker price.

I don't disagree with any of your numbers, but that is not the point I am trying to make.

So: I'll try one more time.  When considering club-level sports I would ignore how "good" your child is entirely.  Great, good, or below-average - that shouldn't be a determining factor.

Look at it this way:  Suppose you have two children, one who's an average-level hockey player with a below-average physique, and a second child who has a ton of natural talent and has the genes to match.  Suppose one of your kids thrives in club-level hockey in a way that he hasn't with any other activity.  The focus, the structure, the goal-setting all bring about lots of positive things in his life, like improved health, a sense of social belonging, better performance at school and overall happiness.  Your other kid hates every aspect of club hockey, resents the time-suck and it takes a big toll on his mental health.

Would it matter which kid was which?  If it was the mediocre kid who thrived in club hockey, would you turn to him and say: sorry, we're only doing this for greatness in hockey?  Conversely would you tell your other kid to "suck it up and keep playing" because he has an above average shot at a scholarship?

To me the answer is obvious, but I've seen too many people pushed out of sports because they weren't top-level, and too many gifted athletes be coerced into staying for the sole reason that they are great.

[roomtempmayo]

No disagreement at all @nereo .  Kids' sports aren't about being good or winning.

[jeninco]

No disagreement at all @nereo .  Kids' sports aren't about being good or winning.

That depends a little on the age of the "kid"...

But look: there are kids who want to learn and play sports. There are parents who may or may not play those sports, or be able to teach them, or whatever. And now, there's an enormous, high-pressure sports-industrial complex right there, to separate you from your money and teach your kid that winning is the important thing!

Which is why I keep singing the same song: find a program with values that are consistent with yours. We've played in state competitions against incredibly expensive, high-pressure programs, and also against teams of good, less-affluent kids with largely volunteer-run programs (I think they pay the coaches, and they do a lot of fundraising to be able to do that). And please, for everyone's sake, let your kid's interests and your family values lead the decision!

[englishteacheralex]

I've been enjoying/learning from the commentary here, as well as alleviating my mom guilt, so thanks.

The longer story of why this is coming up is that we've done AYSO with DS for four seasons over the past two years. Initially it was great, but I always was frustrated by the fact that parents have to ref games at different times from our kids' games, and also that they don't tell you when/where practice times are or who your coaches will be until the weekend before it starts. You have to sign up blindly accepting whatever they assign you to.

We've had the same coach the whole time, and he's a nice guy, but he coaches a LOT of things and especially in the most recent season, his heart didn't seem to be in it. He basically sat on the sidelines the whole time and didn't do any kind of strategizing or actual coaching, and the team got creamed in every single game.

Meanwhile, DS had made the more competitive, exclusive AYSO team that played in the club leagues in between seasons (if that makes sense). He had two months of playing with really good coaches and other players who knew what they were doing, and he really enjoyed it. And then they cut him from the team because they had too many players and he was one of the weakest. He was back to the old coach and suddenly it wasn't fun because he had been exposed to a higher level of play.

And the old coach (really nice guy, and just a volunteer so I feel unreasonable having any kind of expectations) just didn't do much beyond show up.

So I started researching club soccer teams where we could pay to play and get DS into a higher level with better coaches. And I'm just not coming up with any club that doesn't practice in one of three fields that would involve hours stuck in horrible traffic every week. From their websites, the clubs seem to value expensive travel and high pressure tournaments. Also, even worse, I reached out to the contact person on every website and haven't heard back from a single one.

It feels like there are no good options, much less a situation where I could actually interview teams to figure out who has the best vibes. At this point if I found any team that practiced less than an hour away from us (TRAFFIC, not distance), I'd sign up for it.

It's not even the money, it's the disruption to our schedules that a team like this would require. I feel sad not giving DS this opportunity but I'm researching other fun sports opportunities and hoping that he'll be well-rounded instead of awesome at soccer.

[Michael in ABQ]

This reminds me of my time in Boy Scouts. The first troop I was in was pretty meh. I think we went camping once in about a year and I don't recall all that much going on. That troop dissolved and I went to a new one where the Scoutmaster really put his heart (and time and money) into it. We went camping once a month, we went on 20+ mile hikes, and 100+ mile canoe trips, and overall just had a great time outside. there was a much higher expectation from everyone with the boys really taking on leadership roles and running things and it was a great experience. I met my two best friends there ~25 years ago and we still keep in touch today despite being spread all over the country. He was an amazing leader/coach who was definitely the most influential person in my life after my parents.

However, the odds of me ever finding another Scoutmaster like that were rare so we choose not to put our sons in Boy Scouts (plus a lot of changes in the organization over the years for the negative).

So, I hope you can find a good alternative but unfortunately in kids sports you're probably always going to be stuck with the option of volunteers doing an ok job or the super hardcore teams training kids for a future career that 99% won't achieve.

[MaybeBabyMustache]

This reminds me of my time in Boy Scouts. The first troop I was in was pretty meh. I think we went camping once in about a year and I don't recall all that much going on. That troop dissolved and I went to a new one where the Scoutmaster really put his heart (and time and money) into it. We went camping once a month, we went on 20+ mile hikes, and 100+ mile canoe trips, and overall just had a great time outside. there was a much higher expectation from everyone with the boys really taking on leadership roles and running things and it was a great experience. I met my two best friends there ~25 years ago and we still keep in touch today despite being spread all over the country. He was an amazing leader/coach who was definitely the most influential person in my life after my parents.

However, the odds of me ever finding another Scoutmaster like that were rare so we choose not to put our sons in Boy Scouts (plus a lot of changes in the organization over the years for the negative).

So, I hope you can find a good alternative but unfortunately in kids sports you're probably always going to be stuck with the option of volunteers doing an ok job or the super hardcore teams training kids for a future career that 99% won't achieve.

I think a lot of this depends on where you live. We had multiple club options that had a more limited practice schedule at fields near us, for clubs that didn't do travel tournaments. There were of course much more hard core clubs to choose from as well - we just didn't choose those. I think based on location, not everyone has those options, so your point would then make sense: it's either volunteer or hard core.

[Kmp2]

I just wanted to add my 2cents. I did not do club (my mother with her physed degree wanted my young childhood experience in sport to be fun and diverse. When I got into competitive sports in grade 7, I was behind and resented her for this. I'm now making the very same decisions for my kids, for all the same reasons - so you were right mom! lol).

I worked really hard grade 7 - 9 to catch up to my competitive cohort and was able to make the jump to higher level high school sports. What really really really helped was a week long summer camp at the university when I was in grade 9. Basically, club technique/games on steroids from 8-5 for a whole week! I really wish I'd been able to do this sooner - the summer between grade 6 and 7 would've been ideal for me.

This is what I plan on doing for my very athletic mid kid (and the other kids if they show sufficient interest/effort). Keep them in low commitment sports, participate in a wide variety, and then enroll them in these sport specific intensive summer camps in the sport they show the most interest in. Finally, perhaps I'd be willing to commit to competitive teams in the 14-16 age range.

[Chris Pascale]

I'm very biased.

Never played on a travel team and got a D-I scholarship. Neither of my college-aged girls played travel-anything, and both were offered athletic scholarships. My oldest is wrapping up her studies at a new school. A coach sat down with her for lunch to talk about playing next year, but she's too focused on her job in the science lab, so turned it down.

Also, people who are on a travel team usually play that sport exclusively, and - in my experience - 1-sport-athletes tend to gather up a localized debilitating injury. 2 tennis players I know have scar tissue related to a slight error in their play, but it was never corrected because they were also doing so well, so why fix it if you're winning? I never stuck to one thing, went higher than most people I know.

And when a travel-sport-player quits that sport, their family gives them so much crap for it, like, we've put so much into this and what about your future? Yeah, what about the future? The kid is trying to move on, and the parents are stuck in the past.

I personally have not seen that much success from travel players:
Example: My friend's son played travel internationally, and after HS went to Germany to play on a developmental team that paid him a small stipend, and that team won it's championship. But even with all of his experience, the D-I college team that picked him up did not offer a scholarship. When I saw him play, I could see why. He was as good as the rest of them, but not better. A possible reason is that he's not very tall.

Also, these travel teams are in sales, not recruitment:
Example: We brought my oldest to join a swim team I was on as a kid - the kind with travel "opportunities," and when they evaluated her they were trying to pitch us on her Olympic potential [I'm not exaggerating; they were telling my wife that she could be an actual Olympian] if she had the right coaching [had this team ever had an Olympian? If they did, it was a fucking secret!]. Mind you, my job paid $3,250 a month and our rent was $2,100, but my wife is hearing something that sounds like she'd be a terrible mom to pass up, so I had to tell her the truth: Even if our kid was a natural swimmer built for racing (she's not) we didn't have the money or time, nor would we sacrifice all the other kids' dreams, as well as our own, for this whim-based-on-a-lie.

Lastly, travel teams are not always the best players; they are often capable players whose parents are willing to pay for the prestige of being in a special club.