Author Topic: How much financial support are you going to provide for your adult children?  (Read 14568 times)

Dicey

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The short answer for me is I'll help them as much I can without tanking myself. 

My parents were incredibly generous in paying for my college and my apartment while I was there, I graduated with zero debt and it helped me to start out with a positive net worth.  My friends who had to first dig themselves out of >100k in debt are still doing it in their mid-30s.  With that said, my friends that had even more assistance than me are doing even better than me.  I'm sure there's a long list of deadbeats from affluent families, but I've found that in my personal experience, the people I know that had more help are doing better than people that got less. 

It's totally fine to support your kid, and it is what I'm planning to do.  Especially during university I can see doing this in a big way, and maybe until they land a job.

That said, everyone should have concerns about making it a little too comfy at home.  If I was twenty two years old, out of university, living at home, getting meals made for me by mom, sometimes having other people do my laundry, not having to pay for a cell phone, not having to pay for a car, not having to pay rent . . . I would never have left home.  It's 50-50 whether I would have actually saved very much of that money (that I would be rolling in having no expenses) or blown it on stupid shit.  I definitely wouldn't be motivated to hustle out of my comfort zone looking for better employment.  But also . . . I would not feel good about me.  When you're financially dependent upon your parents and your living situation hasn't changed at all since elementary school, you must know deep down that you are still a child.  At the same time you also know that you should be an adult . . . but why would anyone accept uncomfortable responsibility if they don't need to?  Be compassionate, (and at the risk of sounding ultra-right wing here) be cognizant of the fact that too much help is a thing, and can be a detriment on multiple levels.

For what its worth, even though my parents paid for everything I needed and most of what I wanted, they made it extremely clear that everything I had was because of them and I needed to stay in line to keep receiving help.  It irritated the shit out of me at the time, but it was strong motivation to not be under their umbrella any more than humanly possible.

You graduated with zero debt and your parents paid for your school/apartment.  What form exactly did the support take that the friends who received more support than you?

You really can't think of any form of support beyond paying for college and shelter during college?  How about paying all expenses during college, not just rent and tuition? How about paying rent after college, giving a down payment for a house, or giving a house?  How about giving $50k to get started?  How about getting the kid a prestigious job they'd never have otherwise gotten?  Giving a car?  Letting them live at home rent-free after college? Annual gifts at holidays of four- or even five-figures?  Paying for graduate or doctoral tuition, and living expenses during advanced degrees? Lending money, interest free, for a house purchase?     

With the exception of "giving a house", I know people who got all of these forms of support. (Not all to one person, but all of the forms, across multiple people).  It doesn't seem hard at all to come up with additional forms of financial support.

No, I can think of tons of other forms of support . . . from buying a car/house, to letting the kid live at home for a decade plus, to ensuring that they have a cushy management job with no real responsibilities at the family business.  Support can take many different forms - that's why I was asking.

I do believe that as costs go up and the parent shoulders more and more of the responsibility of being an adult for the child that something is probably lost for most children.  Like, if my parents bought me a house, car, bought me a nice degree that I couldn't fail out of no matter how hard I tried, and then lined me up with cushy job after cushy job right out of school with a couple hundred mil in play money . . . I could be the president of the United States.  But I'd also be a petulant child without any understanding of the normal struggles that people have to go through, a pile of trophy wives bought from Eastern European countries, a total lack of empathy, and a massively overinflated view of my intelligence and ability as a leader.
Oh, the horrors! It almost sounds like you are describing something real...

Villanelle

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How about paying all expenses during college, not just rent and tuition? How about paying rent after college, giving a down payment for a house, or giving a house?  How about giving $50k to get started?  How about getting the kid a prestigious job they'd never have otherwise gotten?  Giving a car?  Letting them live at home rent-free after college? Annual gifts at holidays of four- or even five-figures?  Paying for graduate or doctoral tuition, and living expenses during advanced degrees? Lending money, interest free, for a house purchase?

There are wildly varying degrees of what is mentioned here.  Living at home after college rent free for a few months to a year and helping a new grad buy a beater car is still generous not a particularly large outlay of economic support.

Of course, and that was intentional as I was trying to capture a lot of points on the spectrum.  I was responding to Steve whose post I interpreted to be asking what types of support there could be, beyond tuition and rent/housing, and the answer is "many".

waltworks

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This is a nice collection of anecdotes. I'll ask a question - assuming you plan to leave something to your children on your death (which some will and some won't) have you considered how extremely unhelpful that will be for them?

If you're a typical healthy Mustachian, you've got a life expectancy in the mid 80s. Maybe older. Call it 90.

If you have kids, you probably had them around 30ish, give or take.

So if you plan to leave your $ to your kids, they'll be around 60, and probably already on track to retire or retired already. THEIR children will be ~30 and perhaps you'll even have great grandchildren. Your money dump won't change your elderly kids lives in any meaningful way, probably, and it won't help anyone else much either unless your kids do something quite different and distribute that money *immediately* to their own children who are still at a stage in life where it will matter.

My own plan is to start giving my kids money once they are around 30 and ask that they do the same for their children. They'll have less financial stress (that's the age where I could have done the most useful investing/had the most flexibility in my life) and be able to provide a better childhood for my hypothetical grandchildren. I want my resources to actually improve my children's lives, not just pile up in a bank account in their late middle age.

-W

ROF Expat

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This is a nice collection of anecdotes. I'll ask a question - assuming you plan to leave something to your children on your death (which some will and some won't) have you considered how extremely unhelpful that will be for them?

If you're a typical healthy Mustachian, you've got a life expectancy in the mid 80s. Maybe older. Call it 90.

If you have kids, you probably had them around 30ish, give or take.

So if you plan to leave your $ to your kids, they'll be around 60, and probably already on track to retire or retired already. THEIR children will be ~30 and perhaps you'll even have great grandchildren. Your money dump won't change your elderly kids lives in any meaningful way, probably, and it won't help anyone else much either unless your kids do something quite different and distribute that money *immediately* to their own children who are still at a stage in life where it will matter.

My own plan is to start giving my kids money once they are around 30 and ask that they do the same for their children. They'll have less financial stress (that's the age where I could have done the most useful investing/had the most flexibility in my life) and be able to provide a better childhood for my hypothetical grandchildren. I want my resources to actually improve my children's lives, not just pile up in a bank account in their late middle age.

-W

I like the concept of providing "inheritance" before my spouse and I pass away, but I am not sure we would do it. 
When I read "The Millionaire Next Door" many years ago, there was a good section about how "Economic Outpatient Care" for adult children often had negative consequences.  I am just as concerned about too much money sapping a kid's drive to succeed as I am not enough money preventing them from succeeding in life. 

If my kid follows a passion into a career path that doesn't pay particularly well, works very hard at it, lives within their financial means, and generally shows maturity, an early inheritance might make sense.  Around 30 years old might be about right.  On the other hand, if my kid isn't working hard, makes poor financial decisions, and isn't living within their means, an early inheritance might just enable more of the same. 

My spouse and I will give our kid every advantage to start working life with no debt.  After that launch from the nest, if they ask for money, they should expect some uncomfortable questions about why they can't live within their means.  We will be happy to pay for things like inviting our kid (and family or guests) to accompany us on vacations they couldn't afford.  That would be as much for us as for them, though. 

I would also be concerned that providing ongoing financial support might change the parent/child relationship in negative ways.  Being an adult (and not asking  me for money) means spending  your money as you see fit.  If you ask me for money (even for something positive like the grandkids' 529 plans), you should expect me to ask about that fancy car...  I really don't want to go there, and I could see it being even more difficult if a spouse is involved. 

LaineyAZ

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I agree with waltworks and ROF expat,
it's a great boost to young adults to get the right amount of help at the right time. 
The tricky part I've seen is when siblings become adults with different levels of maturity and responsibility, and then parents have to decide what's fair - almost a no-win situation because someone will feel that parental help was not given evenly.

I only have one adult child who I allowed to live at home for free while they were in school and/or working. They paid their own car payment, car insurance, cell phone and misc. expenses. 
In the last decade I've contributed a relatively small amount for their wedding and baby expenses. 

But my biggest contribution has been free babysitting for the last 8 years, which I estimate saved them tens of thousands of dollars and which I was happy to do.  (I really abhor family who provides support and then throws it in their family member's face at every turn, but that's another issue.)
My point is there's a lot of non-financial support which can also give adult children a big advantage. 


FINate

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We have two teens.

In our view, the most important way to support our children into adulthood is to teach them well now: Delayed gratification, self control, work ethic, a good education.

Each kid has a college savings account with enough to pay for 4 years at a reasonably priced school, could easily be stretched to cover grad school if they do undergrad locally. We will pay up to what's in the account, they are responsible for any overages. Whatever's unused by age 30 will be put to other uses.

Beyond getting them through college, we don't anticipate helping them financially as adults. We've made it clear to them that they should not expect an inheritance. Now, in our estate plan we've actually left them a little bit to help them out in case we both expire earlier than expected, but they don't know this. Not enough to retire on, but enough to give them a nudge in life.

We love our kids dearly, but don't see why our kids should be privileged over and above anyone else in the world. I mean, they've already had way more advantage than most, with a safe stable home, plenty of food, water, medical care, education, etc. etc. etc. So the bulk of our estate is going to a handful of nonprofits we support.

MMMarbleheader

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We have thought alot about moving to Europe for FIRE (I am a EU citizen) but have come to the conclusion that barring huge change here in the USA it would be too much of a disruption for a 11 year old and 8 year old who don't speak the language. Instead we plan to use out $$ to give them as much of a EU experience as we can in the USA.

1) Pay for college. We have enough saved in 529s to full pay 4 years of state school
2) Help with purchasing a home so they can focus on a career they want vs. how much it pays.
3) Help with child care either with our time or $$
4) Pay for family vacations for us, our kids, and hopefully grand kids
5) Set up a fund to help pay for the grandkids colleges.

I think this will put them close to FIRE so they can push to the finish line if they want, or work somewhere they love and be fine with it. We will not subsidies consumption, rather some of the structurally unfair parts of living in the USA. (College, housing, child care).

Also, having grown up in an immigrant family in the USA it was just normal for older generations to help the ones below them. I always find it weird that Parents don't want do the same for their kids.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2025, 08:47:46 AM by MMMarbleheader »

FINate

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Also, having grown up in an immigrant family in the USA it was just normal for older generations to help the ones below them. I always find it weird that Parents don't want do the same for their kids.

I don't think anyone here is saying they don't want to help their kids, but rather how best to do this.

Villanelle

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In most cases, aren't parents going to know by the time their kids are on their 30s, if they are lazy, fiscally irresponsible, or otherwise likely to be adversely affected by significant financial assistance? 

So if your kid is at 32 yo is broke despite a decent salary (or never holding down a job), frequently buys showy and expensive items, and has little motivation or ambition, then maybe you don't give them $36k year in help.  Avoid the economic outpatient thing.

But assuming your 32 yo invests in their 401k and Roth, drives modest cars, values spending, and works hard enough at their job to be somewhat successful, then it seems safe to assume they aren't going to give that all up and become lazy and wasteful just because you give them $36k for a downpayment on their house or for home renovations or for whatever they deem best. 

I readily admit that because I'm not a parent, I don't get it, but the "ZOMG, money might ruin my kids" seems overplayed if we are talking about 30yo "kids" not 16 or even 22 yo kids.  And if they don't grow up knowing the money is coming. 

I don't think anyone is even remotely obligated to do this, but I also feel like an honest assessment of your kids, and waiting until they are established (~~30+) but still young enough that the jump start would be especially meaningful, would make it pretty easy to avoid having them become lazy, unmotivated, and economically dependent.


GuitarStv

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In most cases, aren't parents going to know by the time their kids are on their 30s, if they are lazy, fiscally irresponsible, or otherwise likely to be adversely affected by significant financial assistance? 

So if your kid is at 32 yo is broke despite a decent salary (or never holding down a job), frequently buys showy and expensive items, and has little motivation or ambition, then maybe you don't give them $36k year in help.  Avoid the economic outpatient thing.

But assuming your 32 yo invests in their 401k and Roth, drives modest cars, values spending, and works hard enough at their job to be somewhat successful, then it seems safe to assume they aren't going to give that all up and become lazy and wasteful just because you give them $36k for a downpayment on their house or for home renovations or for whatever they deem best. 

I readily admit that because I'm not a parent, I don't get it, but the "ZOMG, money might ruin my kids" seems overplayed if we are talking about 30yo "kids" not 16 or even 22 yo kids.  And if they don't grow up knowing the money is coming. 

I don't think anyone is even remotely obligated to do this, but I also feel like an honest assessment of your kids, and waiting until they are established (~~30+) but still young enough that the jump start would be especially meaningful, would make it pretty easy to avoid having them become lazy, unmotivated, and economically dependent.

I don't plan on asking my son to give me access to all of his financial records - doing that would feel like infantilizing him.  Without those, I will have no idea if he's saving a lot, working hard, has a somewhat successful job, etc.  If he's 32 and still living at home though, I'll have some concerns.

Villanelle

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In most cases, aren't parents going to know by the time their kids are on their 30s, if they are lazy, fiscally irresponsible, or otherwise likely to be adversely affected by significant financial assistance? 

So if your kid is at 32 yo is broke despite a decent salary (or never holding down a job), frequently buys showy and expensive items, and has little motivation or ambition, then maybe you don't give them $36k year in help.  Avoid the economic outpatient thing.

But assuming your 32 yo invests in their 401k and Roth, drives modest cars, values spending, and works hard enough at their job to be somewhat successful, then it seems safe to assume they aren't going to give that all up and become lazy and wasteful just because you give them $36k for a downpayment on their house or for home renovations or for whatever they deem best. 

I readily admit that because I'm not a parent, I don't get it, but the "ZOMG, money might ruin my kids" seems overplayed if we are talking about 30yo "kids" not 16 or even 22 yo kids.  And if they don't grow up knowing the money is coming. 

I don't think anyone is even remotely obligated to do this, but I also feel like an honest assessment of your kids, and waiting until they are established (~~30+) but still young enough that the jump start would be especially meaningful, would make it pretty easy to avoid having them become lazy, unmotivated, and economically dependent.

I don't plan on asking my son to give me access to all of his financial records - doing that would feel like infantilizing him.  Without those, I will have no idea if he's saving a lot, working hard, has a somewhat successful job, etc.  If he's 32 and still living at home though, I'll have some concerns.

You really think that seeing his account balances is the only way to know if your son is responsible or a spendthrift? 

I've never provided account statements to my parents, and I'm very certain they know where I stand WRT finances. 

GuitarStv

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In most cases, aren't parents going to know by the time their kids are on their 30s, if they are lazy, fiscally irresponsible, or otherwise likely to be adversely affected by significant financial assistance? 

So if your kid is at 32 yo is broke despite a decent salary (or never holding down a job), frequently buys showy and expensive items, and has little motivation or ambition, then maybe you don't give them $36k year in help.  Avoid the economic outpatient thing.

But assuming your 32 yo invests in their 401k and Roth, drives modest cars, values spending, and works hard enough at their job to be somewhat successful, then it seems safe to assume they aren't going to give that all up and become lazy and wasteful just because you give them $36k for a downpayment on their house or for home renovations or for whatever they deem best. 

I readily admit that because I'm not a parent, I don't get it, but the "ZOMG, money might ruin my kids" seems overplayed if we are talking about 30yo "kids" not 16 or even 22 yo kids.  And if they don't grow up knowing the money is coming. 

I don't think anyone is even remotely obligated to do this, but I also feel like an honest assessment of your kids, and waiting until they are established (~~30+) but still young enough that the jump start would be especially meaningful, would make it pretty easy to avoid having them become lazy, unmotivated, and economically dependent.

I don't plan on asking my son to give me access to all of his financial records - doing that would feel like infantilizing him.  Without those, I will have no idea if he's saving a lot, working hard, has a somewhat successful job, etc.  If he's 32 and still living at home though, I'll have some concerns.

You really think that seeing his account balances is the only way to know if your son is responsible or a spendthrift? 

I've never provided account statements to my parents, and I'm very certain they know where I stand WRT finances.

I've known people who had no idea that their spouse was cheating on them for years.  I have known people who hid gambling and drug problems for surprisingly long periods of time from those around them.  I have known people who hid depression and mental health issues from everyone around them . . . until they killed themselves.  While I'm unaware of any close family members suffering from it, it's very likely that there are people around me hiding sexual abuse.  People are easy to fool, doubly so when the misinformation is coming from trusted and loved family.  There is only one way to really know if my son's being responsible financially, and that's to check his records.

Your parents quite likely know where you stand with respect to finances because you're generally honest and straightforward with them.  And if you decided to make a serious effort to lie to your parents and hide your financial situation they would absolutely have no idea what you were doing.

TheFrenchCat

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Definitely at least paying for undergraduate/trade school, though if it's a very expensive private school, there may have to be some sort of limit. But we're still almost a decade out, and not sure what the educational landscape will look like when it's time.  If we can afford it and DD wants to, we'd probably help with a graduate/medical degree.

Beyond that, I'm not sure.  DD is only 9, and she's already very industrious, but also likes crafting and creating things a lot.  Her current "what I want to be when I grow up" is to be an artisan of some sort.  I could see potentially subsidizing some things while she got on her feet with a career like that or maybe going in on a business venture with her.  But we don't mention that at all yet.  However, I'm not too worried about spoiling her, since she's so far a natural saver, so as long as she keeps on that path, I don't think we'd mind giving specific help. 

We've had plenty of help from our parents/family, and we see it as our responsibility to pass it on, both to DD and potentially other family members if we can.  Now with estate planning, that will vary as we and DD age.  At the moment everything would go to her, since she's a child and would need it to help support her.  Once she's launched, maybe we'd consider doing more for charities, but we'll have to see.

charis

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In most cases, aren't parents going to know by the time their kids are on their 30s, if they are lazy, fiscally irresponsible, or otherwise likely to be adversely affected by significant financial assistance? 

So if your kid is at 32 yo is broke despite a decent salary (or never holding down a job), frequently buys showy and expensive items, and has little motivation or ambition, then maybe you don't give them $36k year in help.  Avoid the economic outpatient thing.

But assuming your 32 yo invests in their 401k and Roth, drives modest cars, values spending, and works hard enough at their job to be somewhat successful, then it seems safe to assume they aren't going to give that all up and become lazy and wasteful just because you give them $36k for a downpayment on their house or for home renovations or for whatever they deem best. 

I readily admit that because I'm not a parent, I don't get it, but the "ZOMG, money might ruin my kids" seems overplayed if we are talking about 30yo "kids" not 16 or even 22 yo kids.  And if they don't grow up knowing the money is coming. 

I don't think anyone is even remotely obligated to do this, but I also feel like an honest assessment of your kids, and waiting until they are established (~~30+) but still young enough that the jump start would be especially meaningful, would make it pretty easy to avoid having them become lazy, unmotivated, and economically dependent.

I don't plan on asking my son to give me access to all of his financial records - doing that would feel like infantilizing him.  Without those, I will have no idea if he's saving a lot, working hard, has a somewhat successful job, etc.  If he's 32 and still living at home though, I'll have some concerns.

You really think that seeing his account balances is the only way to know if your son is responsible or a spendthrift? 

I've never provided account statements to my parents, and I'm very certain they know where I stand WRT finances.

My parents have no idea where I stand WRT finances aside from the fact that I'm employed, own a house, and have never asked them for money.  I guess that is something, but I have friends who are also employed homeowners who do not live within their means and have significant debt, for one reason or another.

ROF Expat

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In most cases, aren't parents going to know by the time their kids are on their 30s, if they are lazy, fiscally irresponsible, or otherwise likely to be adversely affected by significant financial assistance? 

So if your kid is at 32 yo is broke despite a decent salary (or never holding down a job), frequently buys showy and expensive items, and has little motivation or ambition, then maybe you don't give them $36k year in help.  Avoid the economic outpatient thing.

But assuming your 32 yo invests in their 401k and Roth, drives modest cars, values spending, and works hard enough at their job to be somewhat successful, then it seems safe to assume they aren't going to give that all up and become lazy and wasteful just because you give them $36k for a downpayment on their house or for home renovations or for whatever they deem best. 

I readily admit that because I'm not a parent, I don't get it, but the "ZOMG, money might ruin my kids" seems overplayed if we are talking about 30yo "kids" not 16 or even 22 yo kids.  And if they don't grow up knowing the money is coming. 

I don't think anyone is even remotely obligated to do this, but I also feel like an honest assessment of your kids, and waiting until they are established (~~30+) but still young enough that the jump start would be especially meaningful, would make it pretty easy to avoid having them become lazy, unmotivated, and economically dependent.

This is pretty much where I come from, but I think that your statement "and if they don't grow up knowing the money is coming" is important.  When I was 30, I was in pretty solid financial shape.  I had a good job and lived within my means.  I saved and invested and didn't have a car loan.  In my 20s, if I had known that a significant amount of money was coming my way, I don't think it would have ruined me (mostly because of the way my parents raised me) but it is entirely possible that I would have saved and invested less.  The net effect might have been a raised standard of living in my 20s, but not so much long term change.     

If money had come to me in my teens and early 20s, all I would have left by 30 would probably be good stories (of the parts I could remember). 

Louise

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We plan on paying for higher ed and a substantial house down payment. I personally don't think the world is as easy as it was in the 90s when I was a young adult. If there are grandkids, we'll fund their 529s and I'll provide babysitting if they live in the area and want it (I really want that job too!). Our kid is not surprisingly a lot like my husband and me, so I'm not worried they'll run off the rails. Kid is 16 and already chomping at the bit to be independent. Kid has already proven to be pretty level-headed and responsible and will be our sole heir too.

Louise

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But my biggest contribution has been free babysitting for the last 8 years, which I estimate saved them tens of thousands of dollars and which I was happy to do.  (I really abhor family who provides support and then throws it in their family member's face at every turn, but that's another issue.)
My point is there's a lot of non-financial support which can also give adult children a big advantage.

That's a huge gift! I want to do that too. At the very least, I can be an emergency backup. My mom was for me and it's so helpful if your kid is too sick for daycare or you have to work late on short notice.

MMMarbleheader

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One situation I am not sure how to handle....

If one kid is very high performing and gets into an Ivy level school. We would not qualify for aid due to the CSS profile, but you get free tuition at our state school due it only needing the FAFSA. I honestly don't think I could pay for it in full without really putting pressure on FIRE but it would be a tough situation to be in.

Geppetto

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I've shown my older kids their 529 balances and they each have a separate UTMA investment account that'll be theirs at 18. That bag of cash, plus their K-12 education, their character and moral formation, their innate smarts, and the directional guidance we'll offer on request, is their starter kit from mom and dad (but really from God). They know they have a huge problem / adventure bearing down on them called growing up, which is for them to figure out with the resources at hand, and that we'll be motivated to support them further in sensible and wholesome pursuits to the best of our ability. They know we'll naturally have more flexibility to do more for the younger kids than for the older kids (as more unknowns convert into knowns), and that's the way it goes. They know we won't (can't) subsidize a layabout lifestyle for anybody. Everybody seems pleased with the playing field, grateful for the support, and excited about independence. 

roomtempmayo

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I readily admit that because I'm not a parent, I don't get it, but the "ZOMG, money might ruin my kids" seems overplayed if we are talking about 30yo "kids" not 16 or even 22 yo kids.  And if they don't grow up knowing the money is coming. 

I don't think anyone is even remotely obligated to do this, but I also feel like an honest assessment of your kids, and waiting until they are established (~~30+) but still young enough that the jump start would be especially meaningful, would make it pretty easy to avoid having them become lazy, unmotivated, and economically dependent.

I don't intend to wait until they're established.  Once they're financially independent, I don't see the point of supporting them financially unless it's something specific they can't really afford, like daycare for a third child, or private school tuition in a place with failing public schools.  But just handing money to a kid who has a good job and is doing fine?  I'd probably rather give the money to charity.

The money that I've seen change people's life trajectories comes between high school graduation and getting a career established.  Someone above mentioned a friend getting multiple cracks at med school admissions because their parents were able to be a financial backstop while they worked an underpaid job and studied for the MCAT.  I've seen that too, and all sort of permutations of it that changed someone's life.  Money at that point can provide the freedom to think longterm, which can put kids on a totally different path. 

Frugal Lizard

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I don't think a dump of money on a young adult is the "ruin the kid" cause. It could contribute but there are a whole bunch of mechanisms going on there before the money itself - lack of self regulation, tenacity and problem solving. And sure having too much money that one never learns how to work.

I have a pretty good sense of how much impulse control my kids have as adults because it was one of the areas I was aware of when they were developing it. And as they were surrounded by adults reading, they observed adults working and discussing priorities.

We did all kinds of age appropriate things when they were little for them to practice savings / delayed gratification / self regulation. They are becoming capable adults more and more and apply their skills with Halloween candy and birthday money and sun protection and wardrobe decisions to more consequential decisions. It is all linked.

It has been harder as our oldest was in a significant relationship and his partner wasn't as financially astute or resourced as him. But we could see him struggle to balance his values with hers. We were just open and supportive so that he knew he could ask for help whenever and whatever. And she knew where we stood.[$1100 each for an apartment!!!!!!] For example, if we were doing stuff as a family, I was clear that we would be treating and she was invited/included. Any issues never got too large because she decided to end the relationship. Hopefully the next significant others will be more aligned.

Psychstache

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This is a nice collection of anecdotes. I'll ask a question - assuming you plan to leave something to your children on your death (which some will and some won't) have you considered how extremely unhelpful that will be for them?

If you're a typical healthy Mustachian, you've got a life expectancy in the mid 80s. Maybe older. Call it 90.

If you have kids, you probably had them around 30ish, give or take.

So if you plan to leave your $ to your kids, they'll be around 60, and probably already on track to retire or retired already. THEIR children will be ~30 and perhaps you'll even have great grandchildren. Your money dump won't change your elderly kids lives in any meaningful way, probably, and it won't help anyone else much either unless your kids do something quite different and distribute that money *immediately* to their own children who are still at a stage in life where it will matter.

My own plan is to start giving my kids money once they are around 30 and ask that they do the same for their children. They'll have less financial stress (that's the age where I could have done the most useful investing/had the most flexibility in my life) and be able to provide a better childhood for my hypothetical grandchildren. I want my resources to actually improve my children's lives, not just pile up in a bank account in their late middle age.

-W

I like this. To give an example of the future from the other side, this is something that is happening to us now via the in-laws. A few years ago, they started provided all of their children (who are grown, married with children, in successful careers, 30s-40s) with an equal annual gift. It was not expected, but is appreciated. It's not life changing or needed, but it helps smooth out all of the unexpected 'fun' of life (medical expenses, new roofs, etc). It alleviates some small stressors at a busy time of life for us, and has no meaningful impact on them and their lifestyle.

waltworks

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There are plenty of ways to prevent a financial gift from ruining someone's life, it's not as if you're required to dump a million bucks on your n'er-do-well 25 year old so they can blow it all in 6 months.

Just establish a trust that hands out $20k a year or something like that - enough to smooth out life bumps, invest more, or occasionally go on a vacation, but not enough to ruin their drive to succeed, if that's a concern. Adjust for inflation if you want, adjust for grandchildren if you want, etc, etc. If N-D-W blows the $20k each year right away, so be it.

I also think it's hilarious that we simultaneously:

1: celebrate people who have, though passive investing in RE or working crazy hours at a tech company and cashing out stock options, or whatever, FIRED at a young age and now just fool around with their hobbies or whatever. Live the life you want even if that's Netflix and Chill! (for what it's worth, I celebrate those people too).

2: worry about ruining our children's drive to work hard.

I'm not sure how to square that circle, honestly. Working hard is important, but once you have enough money, it's not? But it has to be money you earned (even if by passively investing in real estate and lucking into crazy high returns or whatever), not money that someone gave you? But it's ok to give your kids money *as long as they don't really need it because they are such good hard workers*? Also it's ok to give them money when you die, but not beforehand, basically once they're also old and don't need the money anyway?

-W


roomtempmayo

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I'm not sure how to square that circle, honestly. Working hard is important, but once you have enough money, it's not? But it has to be money you earned (even if by passively investing in real estate and lucking into crazy high returns or whatever), not money that someone gave you?

I'd say that working hard at things worth doing is always important.

In an ideal world, we'd all do that as long as we're physically able and have plenty of money happen to us in the process.

The trouble we and future generations face is that the meaningfulness of work often has an inverse relationship with work that is highly compensated.  And so we have a situation where people make money without finding meaning, and end up unfulilled.  FIRE solves that problem by decoupling work and meaning by telling people to make their money separately from finding their meaning.

While it's not the path I want to lay out for our daughter, something like a trust ideally allows a person to just skip the money making part and put their efforts into working at what they find meaningful.

waltworks

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Oh, absolutely - trying your best is basically our #1 value as a family.

However measuring that in terms of income is not particularly useful, in my mind. Hence my interest in giving my children a considerable financial tailwind when they're still at the age where it will be useful to them.

-W

Villanelle

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One situation I am not sure how to handle....

If one kid is very high performing and gets into an Ivy level school. We would not qualify for aid due to the CSS profile, but you get free tuition at our state school due it only needing the FAFSA. I honestly don't think I could pay for it in full without really putting pressure on FIRE but it would be a tough situation to be in.

My parents told my sister and me (for years before we were actually looking at schools so there were no surprises) that they would pay for in-state tuition.  If we went to any other school, we'd get that amount and the rest would be on us to figure out. Likewise, they said they'd pay for 4/5 years of undergrad and if it took longer, we'd be on our own.  (I actually ended up taking longer, but I spent a couple years at very cheap--IIRC it was $13/unit at the time) community colleges while I figured out my life.  Thankfully, by my last year of college it was clear that I was getting my act together, so they did end up paying for my 1 extra semester. 

Villanelle

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There are plenty of ways to prevent a financial gift from ruining someone's life, it's not as if you're required to dump a million bucks on your n'er-do-well 25 year old so they can blow it all in 6 months.

Just establish a trust that hands out $20k a year or something like that - enough to smooth out life bumps, invest more, or occasionally go on a vacation, but not enough to ruin their drive to succeed, if that's a concern. Adjust for inflation if you want, adjust for grandchildren if you want, etc, etc. If N-D-W blows the $20k each year right away, so be it.

I also think it's hilarious that we simultaneously:

1: celebrate people who have, though passive investing in RE or working crazy hours at a tech company and cashing out stock options, or whatever, FIRED at a young age and now just fool around with their hobbies or whatever. Live the life you want even if that's Netflix and Chill! (for what it's worth, I celebrate those people too).

2: worry about ruining our children's drive to work hard.

I'm not sure how to square that circle, honestly. Working hard is important, but once you have enough money, it's not? But it has to be money you earned (even if by passively investing in real estate and lucking into crazy high returns or whatever), not money that someone gave you? But it's ok to give your kids money *as long as they don't really need it because they are such good hard workers*? Also it's ok to give them money when you die, but not beforehand, basically once they're also old and don't need the money anyway?

-W

I don't think that's what people are saying at all.  I know I certainly wasn't.  A person who has chosen to work a lower-paying job they are passionate about (or aren't passionate about, and decide for some other reason that job is the best for them), is different than someone who refuses to work, frequently gets fired, or is generally lazy.  That second type is what I think most peope want to avoid funding.  It's not about whether they need the money or not, with "need" meaning they don't get it.  It's about not funding the unmotivated, overspenders, entitled, addicts, etc. 

That's part of why it suprises me that so many parents seem to think they can't or won't be able to tell which category their 25 or 30 year old kids fall into.  Sure, someone could have a well-hidden Coke habit, but it should usually be pretty obvious if your kid is lazy and entitled and hoping (or expecting) you will support the forever, or if they are generally responsible, thrifty, and willing to work.  If they are those things and it just happens not to make them very much money, it seems to me that giving them money--if you have plenty--is as much or more of a lovely thing to do than if they managed a $500k/yr salary straight out of undergrad.

It's not the having or making of money that most people use as a determining factor, but the lifestyle choices, approach to work and finances, and they expectations or entitlement. 

I look at DH and his sibling.  (To be clear, there is no family money at all to give, so this is entirely hypothetical.)  Even in high school, DH was remarkably driven and hard working. BIL was... not.  DH got into a very selective school that was 100% free to him, including boarding.  He's held down a job since then.  BIL has gone from job to job to job, squandering opportunities, getting fired, and generally blaming the world and his family for all his problems. He's an alcoholic and in his 40s lives with his mom and has no job and nothing to his name.  He's surly and ungrateful for everything he gets, even though he gets literally everything provided by his mom because he as zero income.

WHen they were in their mid 20s, all this was already quite obvious.  DH hadn't made much money and his net worth was probably four figures.  But the lifestyle was such that if there had been money, giving it to him would have been very different than giving it to BIL.

I think that's the difference most people are trying to make, not that poor adult-kids don't deserve money and rich ones do.  Perhaps it would be more appropriate to say that responsible adult kids would benefit from financial gifts and irresponsible adult kids might not, in a bigger picture sense. 

waltworks

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To be fair, giving money to someone who is always broke, or an addict, or whatever, would probably help them/improve their lives much more than giving it to the hard worker type person. It makes no sense to punish people for that kind of failing, IMO.

If I had a kid who is addicted to something, I would much rather pay for them to be able to live safely/afford a safe source of their drug than living on the street and trying to get a fix by committing crimes or something.

But yeah, you will probably know by the time they're in their 20s if money will ruin them.

-W

Villanelle

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To be fair, giving money to someone who is always broke, or an addict, or whatever, would probably help them/improve their lives much more than giving it to the hard worker type person. It makes no sense to punish people for that kind of failing, IMO.

If I had a kid who is addicted to something, I would much rather pay for them to be able to live safely/afford a safe source of their drug than living on the street and trying to get a fix by committing crimes or something.

But yeah, you will probably know by the time they're in their 20s if money will ruin them.

-W

Usually, giving money to an addict just enables their addiction.  And  very often they still end up without a safe place to live.  It's not like most addicts will set aside money for the rent, and then only spend the rest on their fixes.  Or set ration their funds to they can buy the expensive, safer drug, but less of it.  That's rarely how it works. 

And if they are always broke (and it's not because of mitigating circumstanes like illness or disability), then they will likely burn through their money as fast as their burned through their own.  So giving them money likely won't help much, and it will make you less able to help if/when there's an actual crisis. 

Think of all the stories here about coworkers and family members who spend every penny and live one expense away from a crisis.  Do you really think that if they had an additional $1000/mo, they'd suddenly start saving being responsible?  Or is it more likely they'd just buy a new gas guzzler every 2 years instead of every 3?

I mean, in the end, everyone can and should do with their money whatever they deem best.  But thinking that giving an addict or a spendthrift more money is going to turn their life around is likely to lead to intense disappointment. 

waltworks

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Sure, but again, if you think just slightly outside the box, you can pay for an apartment and medical care. You don't have to just directly buy them drugs.

A lot of the harms from addiction are from the poverty that's associated with it, not the drug itself (though the drug is obviously a bad thing).

It seems like people want to reward/punish their adult kids more than just support them, which I think is a little weird.

-W

Villanelle

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Sure, but again, if you think just slightly outside the box, you can pay for an apartment and medical care. You don't have to just directly buy them drugs.

A lot of the harms from addiction are from the poverty that's associated with it, not the drug itself (though the drug is obviously a bad thing).

It seems like people want to reward/punish their adult kids more than just support them, which I think is a little weird.

-W

When you provide an apartment for an addict, you facilitate the addition. Money that would have gone to rent or a hotel room buys even more drugs. They rent space to other addicts, in exchange for cash or free drugs.  So the money you give them buying drugs; it's just funneled through an extra step.  It's also making their life as an addict more comfortable and therefore removing incentive to get clean.  It's not about punishing an addict.  It's about not enabling the addiction.  (I'm sure there are exceptions and every person making thse decisions needs to evaluate the specific person and their addition.  But this seems to be how it works for most addicts.)

Take my BIL for example.  He lives with his mom and has all his bills paid because he has no income and hasn't had a job in several years. By letting him stay, feed, clothing, warming, washing, and even entertaining him, she's made his life comfortable. AFAIK, she doesn't actually give him cash, or at least not much, which I think she believes helps keep him clean.  It doesn't.  He's been hospitalized for DTs, seizures, and other life-threatening issues relating to his addition multiple times while living under her roof.  I suspect he steals from her and also drinks her alcohol, but that's just a guess.  If she removed all those things she provides, yes, his life would be rough. OTOH, right now he has no real reason to get and stay clean.   

Paying for rehab or mental health supports is, IMO, one of the only non-destrutive ways to financially help an addict.  (Well, also perhaps paying for some living expenses if they get clean and are trying to reestablish a healthy, productive life.  Rent for an apartment after rehab and while clean and trying to get themselves set up and self-sustaining is different than rent for an active addict.)

GuitarStv

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If she removed all those things she provides, yes, his life would be rough. OTOH, right now he has no real reason to get and stay clean.

This is the whole crux of the question about what to do with children and support.  As parents we don't want our kids to have rough lives, but we do want them to get/stay clean (or in this case, to learn to care for themselves independently).  You want your kid to be challenged and overcome those challenges.  You don't want them to be challenged and crushed under the weight of the challenges.  There's obviously a balance to be struck (I think we're all in agreement about that), it's tricky trying to figure out exactly where to draw lines though.

roomtempmayo

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When you provide an apartment for an addict, you facilitate the addition. Money that would have gone to rent or a hotel room buys even more drugs. They rent space to other addicts, in exchange for cash or free drugs.  So the money you give them buying drugs; it's just funneled through an extra step.  It's also making their life as an addict more comfortable and therefore removing incentive to get clean. 

I disagree.  Keeping an addict housed and fed can keep the chemical issue from becoming a criminal issue.

The example you gave earlier of the drunk living in mom's basement is illustrative and common.  Yes, he's still a drunk, but he's not in prison, or homeless, or in danger of freezing to death.

Drive around rural America and note how many proud farmhouses have a broken down old trailer on the far side of the farmstead.  In many cases, that's where the drunk son/uncle/brother spent his life.  I think that's a lot more humane approach to your family than trying to make their lives so tenuous that they'll decide to get clean before they're incarcerated or dead.

AuspiciousEight

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One could also consider hiring someone who was specifically educated and trained and who has years of experience helping people to overcome addictions - such as an addiction counselor, or sending them to a rehabilitation center.

The problem is - fundamentally - that if you remove cause and effect from a person's life they aren't likely to grow or mature or make healthier choices for themselves, precisely because they fail to recognize that what they're doing is unhealthy because you've remove any painful consequences from the unhealthy behavior. People are not usually inclined to learn from other people's mistakes or even *gasp* read books to learn about healthy behavior. They typically learn through the painful consequences of their own actions or inactions, especially if they have some sort of chemical dependency that is driving their behavior. 

Sure - supplying a trailer or housing might save them from a life on the street. But this might also contribute to having them continue their addiction for the rest of their life with relatively few painful consequences and thus they don't particularly learn anything or change much.

How much you want to support someone with a drug addiction and how is, of course, up to you, but I would personally be much more inclined to pay for them to go to a rehabilitation center than to pay for them to live in a trailer in the woods.

Villanelle

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One could also consider hiring someone who was specifically educated and trained and who has years of experience helping people to overcome addictions - such as an addiction counselor, or sending them to a rehabilitation center.

The problem is - fundamentally - that if you remove cause and effect from a person's life they aren't likely to grow or mature or make healthier choices for themselves, precisely because they fail to recognize that what they're doing is unhealthy because you've remove any painful consequences from the unhealthy behavior. People are not usually inclined to learn from other people's mistakes or even *gasp* read books to learn about healthy behavior. They typically learn through the painful consequences of their own actions or inactions, especially if they have some sort of chemical dependency that is driving their behavior. 

Sure - supplying a trailer or housing might save them from a life on the street. But this might also contribute to having them continue their addiction for the rest of their life with relatively few painful consequences and thus they don't particularly learn anything or change much.

How much you want to support someone with a drug addiction and how is, of course, up to you, but I would personally be much more inclined to pay for them to go to a rehabilitation center than to pay for them to live in a trailer in the woods.

Absolutely.  As I said, I think funding rehab or therapy is fundamentally different than funding room and board (which is tacitly funding their abused substance of choice).

To go back to the example of BIL.  His body is trashed.  He's in his late 40s and if I showed you a picture and said he was 60, you'd easily believe that.  He's also rail thin, and his skin is atrocious.  (I'm not convinced that alcohol is is only addition.  His mom swears it is, and he so vigoursly denies any other substance that it ends up looking suspicious.  And his mom also always swears he's sober, right up until he's hospitalized for either drinking too much or detoxing again. So not a reliable source.)

He's been hospitalized multiple times with seizures, and for the last one, he was unconcious for a while and there's some question of minor "brain damage".  His liver is toast.  He fluctuates between diabetes and pre-diabetes, neither of which he seems to manage.  His joints are trashed.  His stomach is trashed, to the point that eating many common foods is problematic.  All of this is because of his addition.  So all the enabling that has allowed and continues to allow this to happen was not protecting his health or safety.  it was not humane.  And it meant that every time he detoxed, went to the hospital, and came or, or the few times he was forced to go to rehab (DUI), he returned home to the same life and the same house and the same comforts... and the same habits.  No real incentive to change anything, or at least not the kind of incentive that works for someone who seems generally okay not having a job or being self-sufficient. 

He is unhealthy, in pain, reliant on substances***, nutritionally deprived, potentially damaging his brain, not moving well, and many of his organs are not functioning well. And that's not to mention the myriad mental health issues--both those that helped lead to the addition and those resulting from it and all it's taken from him.  IDK, but facilitating that doesn't seem like the "humane" option to me.

And housing him hasn't kept the chemical issue from being a criminal one.  Like so many addicts, he has had a couple DUIs, one of which involved hit-and-run of a car with a 6-yo child in it.  Fortunately, it was very low speed and no one was harmed.  But i ws a criminal act and dealt with in criminal courts.  Housed addicts still drive drunk or high, they still steal, they still buy drugs (in and of itself a criminal act). 

And assuming he outlives his mother (late 70s, but thankfully quite healthy and capable), what then? There's likely very little to inherit.  I'm guessing he'd walk away with no more than $50k, if that.  And remember, he has no savings, not job, not car, no nothing.  And his body is liekly to be so trashed that employment will be difficult, even if we wants it, can find it, and can keep it. So, he will likely still end up wherever he'd have ended up if she's stopped enabling him, only without her to help get him into rehab, support him as he established himself once sober, etc.  Again, how is that the human option? 

I get that it can be incredibly painful and difficult to look a loved one in the face, deny them, and know that doing so likely puts them on the streets on in harm's way.  I understand why MIL hasn't been able to do that.  But she's still putting in him harm's way--just more slowly, but also with even less chance that he will eventually be out of harm's way. 

It's an incredibly sad situation and there are no good answers, or answers guaranteed to improve outcomes.  But "if you kick them out, they are on the street" misses a lot of the nuances.  BIL is suiciding.  He's just doing it very slowly, while simultaneously worrying, frustrating, and annoying his poor mom. And he has no reason to stop--or at least no reason that has yet been enough to stop for any meaningful amount of time.   

***I can't say for sure if he's sober at the moment.  After the most recent hospitalization this summer, he went to rehab again.  I'd like to believe it stuck this time, but I don't see any changes in his attitude that suggest some lightbulb finally lit. 

neo von retorch

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https://thehill.com/business/5220114-parents-financially-support-adult-children-survey/

> 50 percent of parents financially supporting adult children
> An average of $1,474 a month was contributed

Villanelle

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https://thehill.com/business/5220114-parents-financially-support-adult-children-survey/

> 50 percent of parents financially supporting adult children
> An average of $1,474 a month was contributed

I'd love to see more details on this.  My parents are taking my sister and me, and our husbands, on vacation in a few months, and they took us all on a cruise for parents' 80th birthdays a few years ago. They do this primarily because they want to spend time and make memories with us.  Does that mean that they would count as the 50% of parents financially supporting children?  The article specifically mentions vacations.  I guess I'm being "financially supported" by my mom and dad, in the most strict (or would that be the most liberal?) definition of the concept.  Where is the survey drawing the line between a gift and financial support, and were the specific about that in the survey? 


Without more details about how they define "financial support", I'm not sure how meaningful this is. 

neo von retorch

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Without more details about how they define "financial support", I'm not sure how meaningful this is.

Often the case with any survey! My dad loaned me ~$985 during college (which I paid back), and once loaned me $1200 for a car purchase (which I paid back in ~3 months). Do loans count?

Also when we go out to breakfast once a month, he sometimes pays ;)



Digging into the original a bit - https://www.savings.com/insights/financial-support-for-adult-children-study

I think the key here is "average monthly financial contribution." Sure, depending on how the question is asked, vacations could be included in an annual tally and divided to give us a monthly amount. But that might not be the intention of the survey? There's also a breakdown showing the nature of the contributions, e.g. groceries and cell phone.

And take a look at the section titled "Parents, how true are the following statements for you?"
« Last Edit: March 28, 2025, 02:25:25 PM by neo von retorch »

Villanelle

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Without more details about how they define "financial support", I'm not sure how meaningful this is.

Often the case with any survey! My dad loaned me ~$985 during college (which I paid back), and once loaned me $1200 for a car purchase (which I paid back in ~3 months). Do loans count?

Also when we go out to breakfast once a month, he sometimes pays ;)



Digging into the original a bit - https://www.savings.com/insights/financial-support-for-adult-children-study

I think the key here is "average monthly financial contribution." Sure, depending on how the question is asked, vacations could be included in an annual tally and divided to give us a monthly amount. But that might not be the intention of the survey? There's also a breakdown showing the nature of the contributions, e.g. groceries and cell phone.

And take a look at the section titled "Parents, how true are the following statements for you?"

If you sometimes pay, than your parents are among the XX% of seniors who rely on financial support from their adult children! 

I almost included in my response that when my mom visited me last month, she paid for several meals out and bought gas for the trip where I drove us up to see my old childhood home a few hours away. 

I am ashamed to be such a leech. 

Tasse

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I think it's also worth noting the age breakdown. Remember that many kids turn 18 in their last year of high school, but I would consider it pretty standard and expected to continue supporting your "adult" 18yo child who hasn't even graduated yet.

mathlete

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I used to want to provide the same experience I had since I turned out pretty well. As time goes on though, I realize I’m kind of a freak. I was preternaturally responsible at an early age.

Also, I think the United States is pretty hostile to young people. As much as it sucked to graduate into the great financial crisis, these days, kids face a pretty unforgiving job market, housing market, healthcare situation, etc.

We live in a gerontocracy, and it’s getting worse. Old people dominate positions of power and the order of the day is less help for the young and more benefits for the old, paid for by deficits that the young will inherit.

All that is to say that I have no plan for my kids, except to be ready for whatever help they need, and to try and figure out the best way to give that help. That might mean money. So FIRE is an afterthought, now. It’s what happens if the kid stuff works out well.


tooqk4u22

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I used to want to provide the same experience I had since I turned out pretty well. As time goes on though, I realize I’m kind of a freak. I was preternaturally responsible at an early age.

Also, I think the United States is pretty hostile to young people. As much as it sucked to graduate into the great financial crisis, these days, kids face a pretty unforgiving job market, housing market, healthcare situation, etc.

We live in a gerontocracy, and it’s getting worse. Old people dominate positions of power and the order of the day is less help for the young and more benefits for the old, paid for by deficits that the young will inherit.

All that is to say that I have no plan for my kids, except to be ready for whatever help they need, and to try and figure out the best way to give that help. That might mean money. So FIRE is an afterthought, now. It’s what happens if the kid stuff works out well.

There are so many people in my industry that are managers or executives that are in their mid- to late 60s and still going strong and going to the office every day. Obviously they have done well for themselves so I always wonder why. 

- Some will say they get a lot of enjoyment and engagement out of it - doubt that is true as I am in a pretty boring industry.

- some will say "What else am I going to do with my time"

- some will use it as an excuse to buy a second home (or bigger second home) or fund grandkids colleges or stuff like.


At the end of the day, I think two things are true with this cohort: (1) their work has been their identity for too long and they don't know any different and need the routine and (2) its simply too easy to keep getting the paycheck, bonuses and RSUs (i.e. there is really no physical demands and honestly at those levels the performance demands don't appear all that intense either (I certainly feel more stress than they do to perform because I am an individual contributor). 

And this older co-hort sucking up these resources and holding these positions for longer than they need is creating a log jam for the younger talent below.


Villanelle

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I used to want to provide the same experience I had since I turned out pretty well. As time goes on though, I realize I’m kind of a freak. I was preternaturally responsible at an early age.

Also, I think the United States is pretty hostile to young people. As much as it sucked to graduate into the great financial crisis, these days, kids face a pretty unforgiving job market, housing market, healthcare situation, etc.

We live in a gerontocracy, and it’s getting worse. Old people dominate positions of power and the order of the day is less help for the young and more benefits for the old, paid for by deficits that the young will inherit.

All that is to say that I have no plan for my kids, except to be ready for whatever help they need, and to try and figure out the best way to give that help. That might mean money. So FIRE is an afterthought, now. It’s what happens if the kid stuff works out well.

There are so many people in my industry that are managers or executives that are in their mid- to late 60s and still going strong and going to the office every day. Obviously they have done well for themselves so I always wonder why. 

- Some will say they get a lot of enjoyment and engagement out of it - doubt that is true as I am in a pretty boring industry.

- some will say "What else am I going to do with my time"

- some will use it as an excuse to buy a second home (or bigger second home) or fund grandkids colleges or stuff like.


At the end of the day, I think two things are true with this cohort: (1) their work has been their identity for too long and they don't know any different and need the routine and (2) its simply too easy to keep getting the paycheck, bonuses and RSUs (i.e. there is really no physical demands and honestly at those levels the performance demands don't appear all that intense either (I certainly feel more stress than they do to perform because I am an individual contributor). 

And this older co-hort sucking up these resources and holding these positions for longer than they need is creating a log jam for the younger talent below.


Shouldn't this mean that eventually (and in the not too distant future as the last of the Greatest Gens and plenty of the Boomers are now dying off), that the wealth these people are accumulating will pass on?  That second house will become part of the net worth of their 40yo daughter, and their grandson will get $50k which he can use to graduate from college debt free and/or put down on a house? 

Of course, this doesn't help the people whose parent isn't an executive in a position of power (and weath), but if that old guy quit his job and let someone else move up, it wouldn't help those people, either. 

So while their may be a log jam, when it breaks up as these older logs die off, it seems there will be a massive wave of cash.  Instead of steadily getting 10 and 15% raises every few years as everyone moves up a wrung on the ladder, won't it come out about the same as people inherit the money (or liquid assets) made by the people who never left their jobs?

Yes, one situation will work out better for some and the other better for others, but it seems like the overall effect will be about the same. 

LaineyAZ

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Agree about Boomers holding onto positions longer.  I've been a fan of the commentator (can't recall his name right now) who said that as we get into our older age it's time to gracefully pivot to become a mentor/teacher.
That's the way to continue your legacy, so to speak, and also open a position for the next generation.   

I've been dismayed to see so many people, especially in the on-air television gigs, who should have considered retiring a while ago.  The 60 Minutes program seems to be the poster child for this.  Leslie Stahl is 83 for goodness sake. 
Leslie, it's okay to step aside and let the next generation have their turn!
(not letting Mike Wallace or Morley Safer or others off the hook, they also stayed way too long.)

mathlete

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Yeah the boomer wealth definitely will pass down eventually. But inheritances for certain millennials in their 50s and 60s isn’t as valuable as helping everyone start their lives in their 20s.

The latter is what I want to be able to help my kids do. Maybe they’ll knock it put of the park and navigate what is certain to be a wild decade, with ease. But on the off chance that they struggle to get footing in an old person’s world, I want to be there.

Geppetto

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Agree about Boomers holding onto positions longer.  I've been a fan of the commentator (can't recall his name right now) who said that as we get into our older age it's time to gracefully pivot to become a mentor/teacher.
That's the way to continue your legacy, so to speak, and also open a position for the next generation.   

Sounds like JBP (everyone's favorite here, I'm sure).
He'd say what we think of as morally good - older folks clearing out of the top spots in the economy and mentoring the next generation - is biologically driven. If you do it, future generations are more likely to survive/prosper, and as a bonus you decrease your own likelihood of getting thrown off a cliff in a time of scarcity. Whereas the old folks who won't let go are getting fat off the seed corn so to speak.

tooqk4u22

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I used to want to provide the same experience I had since I turned out pretty well. As time goes on though, I realize I’m kind of a freak. I was preternaturally responsible at an early age.

Also, I think the United States is pretty hostile to young people. As much as it sucked to graduate into the great financial crisis, these days, kids face a pretty unforgiving job market, housing market, healthcare situation, etc.

We live in a gerontocracy, and it’s getting worse. Old people dominate positions of power and the order of the day is less help for the young and more benefits for the old, paid for by deficits that the young will inherit.

All that is to say that I have no plan for my kids, except to be ready for whatever help they need, and to try and figure out the best way to give that help. That might mean money. So FIRE is an afterthought, now. It’s what happens if the kid stuff works out well.

There are so many people in my industry that are managers or executives that are in their mid- to late 60s and still going strong and going to the office every day. Obviously they have done well for themselves so I always wonder why. 

- Some will say they get a lot of enjoyment and engagement out of it - doubt that is true as I am in a pretty boring industry.

- some will say "What else am I going to do with my time"

- some will use it as an excuse to buy a second home (or bigger second home) or fund grandkids colleges or stuff like.


At the end of the day, I think two things are true with this cohort: (1) their work has been their identity for too long and they don't know any different and need the routine and (2) its simply too easy to keep getting the paycheck, bonuses and RSUs (i.e. there is really no physical demands and honestly at those levels the performance demands don't appear all that intense either (I certainly feel more stress than they do to perform because I am an individual contributor). 

And this older co-hort sucking up these resources and holding these positions for longer than they need is creating a log jam for the younger talent below.


Shouldn't this mean that eventually (and in the not too distant future as the last of the Greatest Gens and plenty of the Boomers are now dying off), that the wealth these people are accumulating will pass on?  That second house will become part of the net worth of their 40yo daughter, and their grandson will get $50k which he can use to graduate from college debt free and/or put down on a house?  That's somewhat true but the wealth that will be transferred is really concentrated at the top so it won't be dispersed as widely as theorized.  But more importantly I was referring to the staying in jobs that are too easy and those resources (income not wealth) are being used to fund the 2nd homes and other extravagances while creating a log jam.  In this case, upon death if a 2nd home is transferred but it has a mortgage what equity will remain to be transferred and can the heirs cover the carrying costs of the 2nd home.....IDK

Of course, this doesn't help the people whose parent isn't an executive in a position of power (and weath), but if that old guy quit his job and let someone else move up, it wouldn't help those people, either.  I think there are a whole lot of middle to upper level managers that are not in c-suite that are in 60s and just clipping salary coupons and if they were to retire it would reshuffle the decks and allow other people to move up, get additional responsibilities (although they are probably already doing those things) and/or create efficiencies in the corporate world - problem is that is difficult to fire or layoff people in that age group

So while their may be a log jam, when it breaks up as these older logs die off, it seems there will be a massive wave of cash.  Instead of steadily getting 10 and 15% raises every few years as everyone moves up a wrung on the ladder, won't it come out about the same as people inherit the money (or liquid assets) made by the people who never left their jobs?  As I suggested above, I don't think it is for further wealth accumulation and more for spending of some sort

Yes, one situation will work out better for some and the other better for others, but it seems like the overall effect will be about the same.