Author Topic: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?  (Read 28288 times)

eyePod

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2015, 01:25:42 PM »
My main concern is that it seems like a lot of people who are pro-Disney are just as vehemently insistent that I MUST go to WDW or have my kids watch their movies.

And I get this. It's a tough thing for any parent. I remember my parents didn't let me watch PG13 movies until I was 13. Then I'd watch R rated movies over my cousins' house and I'm sure they were upset. What I got from this situation was that if I did something that my parents didn't approve of (watching movies that were inappropriate for me), then I should definitely not tell them because they would punish me.

I guess I'm just saying that you should be careful. By making any Disney talk illegal, you could be setting yourself up for some really rebellious kids!

Longwaytogo

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2015, 02:00:55 PM »
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It does seem that Disney is quite polarizing (with an n=47-ish in this post?). Either you really don't like it for what it is, or you really do.

I would not assume that based on this thread. Just like any forum topic (here on MMM or any other forum) if 100 people are asked and 10 are for and 10 against that means the other 80 are indifferent. Those 80 do not click on this thread title or just read it for amusement and don't comment. I would almost guarantee that there are far more people that are indifferent about Disney as there are who are strongly for/against.

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My main concern is that it seems like a lot of people who are pro-Disney are just as vehemently insistent that I MUST go to WDW or have my kids watch their movies. I respect those who like and appreciate Disney for what it is. I only ask to get that same respect in return for my feelings on the subject. And generally speaking, I don't.

I agree, I don't like anyone telling me what me or my family should do on any topic. I would never try to convince someone to go to WDW or watch a movie that did not want to.


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I'd say any complaints I have about Disney are no different than my complaints about our consumer culture as a whole. People taking vacations they can't afford, buying name brand items, and being brainwashed by mindless entertainment is ridiculous, whether it's Disney or anything else on TV.

I agree with this 100%. Complaints about consumer culture in general are fine and good (certainly fit within the theme here). Disney is just an easy target because they have been so successful. No different than blaming Coke or Mcdonalds for our nations obesity problem. People don't have guns to thier head when they eat and drink the stuff.

I'm certainly trying to watch less tv, get outside and exercise, be a good role model for kids, not succumb to advertising etc. but it can all be done in moderation.. IMHO

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2015, 02:25:18 PM »
I also don't feel strongly about Disney. People buy our kids Disney-themed toys (mostly Frozen) and they like them. I don't buy them. I went to Disney World a few times as a kid (my aunt and uncle worked there, so we got in free). I remember really enjoying it. I don't have any strong desire to take my kids, but if it were free, I would.

Megma

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #53 on: April 09, 2015, 02:38:58 PM »
- I think it sets a poor example for girls and their self image. And yes, I've heard the Rapunzel and "Brave" arguments. I'm still not buying it.
As a young guy, I'm clueless to this point. Anyone care to elaborate?

It doesn't look like anyone answered you so I will try to do so. Disney themes (esp "Classic" Disney) are often centered on a helpless female princess who is rescued by a man (Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, Little Mermaid, etc, etc). Female characters are over-sexualized and this is marketed to young and impressionable girls. It's similar to the criticism of Barbie in some ways.

Some of the modern movies have moved toward stronger female characters (Mulan, Brave, Frozen to some extent, I would argue Rapunzel is still "saved" by Finn, even though she whacks him with a frying pan) and more diverse themes. Personally, (spolier alert, though seems like no one on this forum will be interested in watching it!) I loved the end of Frozen when her "true love's kiss" was her sister, not the male companion through the movie. I also liked that it portrayed Ana's rash decision to marry Hans as the incredibly stupid and foolish choice it was and the she goes to save her sister herself.

HOWEVER, all of these changes are with a huge grain of salt. For example there was a big backlash when they unveiled Merida from Brave as a Disney princess and they had given her a very SEXY makeover (thinner, sexier dress, etc. all of which Merida in the movie hates basically). She is supposed to be around 15 I think in the movie and the author based the character on her 11 year old daughter. The author of the script was one of the people who publicly criticized the changes. Disney did back off a little in response to the negative comments but you can see how this is not the message most people would want their young daughters to be getting all the time.

Brave backlash:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/08/merida-brave-makeover_n_3238223.html

Disney response (basically, they did not say anything publicly and just changed her image back):
http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/16/4336232/disney-sexualized-brave-princess-merida-reversal


In case you cannot tell, I'm not exactly a Disney hater. I do like the movies and the songs from Frozen are amazing, and fun fact "Let it Go" was written by the same husband/wife team as who wrote music for Book of Mormon.

However I would NEVER spend thousands of dollars to go to the theme park or buy 99% of the crap they sell. But I wouldn't buy at least 85% of the crap in the average store either.
Thanks for the response.

It does kind of sound like the violent video game argument, but I'm not a parent and have no sisters, so I'm probably uninformed on this topic.

I'd say any complaints I have about Disney are no different than my complaints about our consumer culture as a whole. People taking vacations they can't afford, buying name brand items, and being brainwashed by mindless entertainment is ridiculous, whether it's Disney or anything else on TV.

I feel the same. I do think over exposure to violence in video games can cause some desensitization to violence in some people. Over  exposure to over sexualized female characters (from Disney or magazines etc) en masse is probably also not good for young girls, or some of them at least. Disney is definitely not the only culprit.

I also don't have kids either so I don't really understand the pressure you get from other parents for not buying the kids xyz and taking them to Disney.

Personally, if I was going to spend 10k+ on a family vacation I'd take everyone to somewhere in Europe and we'd go to art museums and see old churches. Learn about other languages and cultures, that world is bigger than what they see every day but I also know the kids would probably rather go to Disney. Too bad for them. :-)

irishbear99

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2015, 04:42:03 PM »
I used to be neutral on Disney until they bought the Star Wars franchise from George Lucas. Now I'm at full-on hate. The fact that Leia is now a Disney princess pisses me the hell off. :(

Longwaytogo

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2015, 05:46:27 PM »
Personally, if I was going to spend 10k+ on a family vacation I'd take everyone to somewhere in Europe and we'd go to art museums and see old churches. Learn about other languages and cultures, that world is bigger than what they see every day but I also know the kids would probably rather go to Disney. Too bad for them. :-)

Personally if I was going to spend 10K+ on a family vacation it better be for 8-10 weeks !!  We have a 2K budget for this Summer's 14 day trip, 9 of which will be spent at WDW. If you count the value of the timeshare points we are using it's realistically closer to 3K though. However last few years since we have started trying to work on our debt emergency we have been "renting" our points every other year to cover two years worth of dues.

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I also don't have kids either so I don't really understand the pressure you get from other parents for not buying the kids xyz and taking them to Disney.

I've occasionally gotten some gruff about my views on little league sports and extracurricular activities (think they are expensive, time consuming, rather do something as a family than have 1 kid participate while the other 3 of us watch) but I have never felt any "pressure" about not buying my kids something. If others are feeling this I would suggest finding some new friends.

Missk

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #56 on: April 10, 2015, 12:46:52 PM »
I've been about 5 or so times on my own (but only once with my parents) and once with my own kids and it was okay. It was fun but I remember spending a CRAP TON of cash. What I can't handle is the long lines, rising ticket prices, and the in-your-face-buy-me-buy-me culture. I've taken my kids once and I will not again (note this was my pre-MMM days).

I guess felt like I HAD to take them. Ugh, the mommy guilt to blame on that. But I have since gotten better at this. What sickens me is our family is neck-deep in their Disney-Love-Disney-Worship spiral. Between the branded apparel, coffee mugs, charity events, etc. I just have to tell myself that that is THEIR lifestyle, not mine.

Anyways, I'm a huge national park lover and there is a lot of learning to be had in that kind of "theme" park (ya know, like nature and stuff). What can you learn at Disney?

nobody123

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #57 on: April 13, 2015, 11:07:44 AM »
I managed to avoid going to WDW until after college, and I only went because I had to as part of a family vacation on the in-laws side.  I was thoroughly unimpressed.  We live 45 minutes away from Cedar Point, arguably the best amusement park in the country, and I think it blows WDW out of the water as far as the quality of the rides.  Overall, I could take it or leave it.  My boys like some of the Disney movies and TV shows, and I'm fine with that.

However, my wife has it in her mind that we will be horrible parents if we don't take the kids to WDW while it is still "magical" to them.  So, we have a multiple thousands of dollars line item in our budget for a trip to WDW next summer.  The fact that the boys have not asked to go ONCE is lost on her, as is the fact that I managed to not go until adulthood and turned out just fine.  I keep telling her they'd much rather have us keep the money and buy them decent used cars when they turn 16 and that I will be miserable being stuck in a crowded tourist trap for a week, but she thinks I'm just being cheap / lazy / no fun.  She's normally very level-headed when it comes to spending and has planned reasonable vacations for the past few years, but for some reason she has it in her head that we must do WDW.  She funds the majority of our vacation fund from her side gig, so I can't really argue too much about it.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #58 on: April 13, 2015, 12:31:29 PM »
--I like (most) Disney movies.  There are some seriously-underrated ones (Meet the Robinsons, Emperor's New Groove come to mind)
--Our family enjoys going to WDW, and I enjoy it too.*
--We don't have TV, but the kids love Octonauts, which is at least a little educational.
--I don't entirely understand the criticism heaped on Disney for the roles the female characters have.  It's a fairy tale.  Get over it.**
--We get just as frustrated with all the branded merchandise as everyone else.  Why is it so difficult to find a freakin' toothbrush without a character splattered all over it!?

* - DW and I are going, just the two of us, this fall.  And we're super excited.  Why does it excite me, a male engineer with strong anti-consumerist sentiments?  A few reasons:  1) if you set aside your entrenched cynicism, and just relax, it's a fun place!  2) There's stuff we'll be able to do that we can't with kids (like watch the main street band). 3) RideMax.  Set up a schedule and you'll spend minimal time in lines. 4) We're mostly immune to the ridiculous merchandising, so we walk right on by.

** - Ok, ok, I'm a guy, so I'm not as sensitive to this.  But Mulan is one of my favorite Disney movies, and I think of Belle as a strong character--after all, she wasn't the one who needed to change, she went out to find her father, she publicly humiliated the village strong man.  I think it's also important to avoid presentism in judging movies which were published nearly 80 years ago.  Snow White was released in 1938 (77 years ago), Cinderella was 1950 (65 years ago), Sleeping Beauty was 1959 (56 years ago).

P.S.  You think Rapunzel was a weak character in Tangled?  Have you ever tried swinging around a cast iron frying pan?  It looks like her frying pan is about a No. 8 size.  I've got one of those at home.  Anyone who thinks it's easy to whip one of those around like a fencing foil is deluding themselves!

EDIT: fixed link
« Last Edit: April 13, 2015, 05:32:06 PM by zolotiyeruki »

mamagoose

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #59 on: April 13, 2015, 12:38:37 PM »
We are not anti-Disney since we live in Orlando and I used to work as an intern there years ago. Our toddler has been three times (twice to Magic Kingdom, once camping at Fort Wilderness) and she doesn't quite "get it" yet. The last time we went was just to satisfy grandma, I'm over waiting in hot lines with her. The valuable parts of Disney World for me were the experiences that are easy to bundle together all in one location - the first time my daughter rode a train, bus, boat, and monorail were all at Disney World. I still love the resorts and restaurants, but the actual theme parks themselves have gone way downhill in terms of the guest experience in the past 10 years, now that everything is electronic with the Fastpass Plus program. You basically have to make your reservations to ride rides days before you go to the park, or stand in line for 100+ minutes in the hot sun with no shade. There's nothing magical about that. We talked it over as a family and decided we won't go back until 1) daughter is old enough to ask to go, 2) daughter is old enough to name some of the characters she'll meet or at least some of the "countries" she'll visit in EPCOT, and 3) only on days when it's less than 80 degrees outside and no crowds <aka green days on the crowd calendars, when you can walk onto the rides - this is mostly during the Food and Wine Festival in the fall>.

Along the same lines, we are vehemently anti-Sea World. We're a vegetarian family and I want her to know it's not OK to catch wild animals and exploit them with stunt shows for our enjoyment.

If any of you are looking for a more cost-friendly family theme park, I can't say enough good things about Carowinds. It's in Charlotte on the NC/SC border (you can walk over the border inside the park) and includes a water park without separate admission. Practically no lines, has an on-site campground, and it's super laid back - we always bring picnic food and walk out to the parking lot for a car picnic lunch. Been going there since I was a kid.

naloj

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #60 on: April 13, 2015, 01:09:13 PM »
Been anti-disney my whole life for no particular reason.  I just remember them being these long drawn-out marketing/promotion schemes and the stories are pretty much disneyized fairy tales that basically end up being the same thing but that is kind of true with a lot of movie studios these days.

DW grew up watching the movies and can sing along perfectly decades later.

Our daughter is getting to the age where she will probably want to watch movies and whatnot so I've been procuring the entire collection cheaply so we will have some "G" stuff to watch.

We watched The Little Mermaid, Aladdin, and Beauty And The Beast semi-recently.

Little Mermaid/Aladdin - Princesses who aren't really notable at all; they're just Princesses. OK, I guess Ariel can sing well but she's silent for like 90% of the movie. It's not even clear if they're actually well liked by their kingdoms or anything.

Beauty And The Beast - She traded herself for her father.  I don't see why the Beast wanted her father as a prisoner so badly since he was dying soon anyway. For all the money that went into developing this movie, you'd think they could do better than that to setup the basic premise of the entire movie.

My dad travels a lot for work, so we went to WDW when I was 12 as part of a business-cation.  I don't really remember anything noteworthy about it to be honest but I as obviously pretty close to being an angsty teenager and not into Disney at all anyway.

I view Disney films as mostly harmless but the moment my daughter starts asking for officially licensed merchandise with 300% markup I will probably explode internally.

tofuchampion

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #61 on: April 17, 2015, 07:55:48 PM »
My son is 9 and he likes Disney movies well enough, but isn't obsessed with them. He liked them a lot more when he was younger; now it's all superheroes.

Daughter is only 4 1/2 months, so she doesn't care. I do want to avoid the princess thing with her as much as I can. Princesses and Barbies are 2 things I can do without. But while I have hesitations about Disney (same things that have already been brought up - sexism), I'm not against it.

Neither husband or I have ever been to Disney. DS, I think, went with his grandma this year over spring break (his dad and I are divorced; it was the grandma on the other side). When he comes to stay for the summer I'll have to ask him what he thought. I think 9-10 is a good age for that kind of thing; they're big enough to ride the cool rides with you and it's not just kiddy stuff all day. They can also earn their own spending money before the trip.

iris lily

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #62 on: April 17, 2015, 09:40:41 PM »
I didn't know that there was an entire thread devoted to this. I hate Disney, always have.

I started hating Disney long before most of you were born, after seeing how Disney Studios ruined so many excellent children's books. I don't mind if Uncle Walt invents (stupid) characters and puts them into his (stupid) movies, that's his bizness and if people want to go to movie theaters to watch this junk, so be it. But when he takes my beloved literature and disneyfies it--well, that is grounds for shunning. He is dead to me.

I will confess that there are certain Disney-invented things, original Disney items, that I find sort of charming in that they are now nostalgic, such as the Teacup ride and It's a Small World at the theme parks. Those have been around 50, 60 years--something like that. They are vintage. But as a child I was bored by most anything Disney. There were a few exceptions, but not many.

I've been to Disney World once, and that was as an adult when my inlaws paid for the entire family to go. I didn't have to spend a dime. Glad that I didn't. That global village thing in Epcot Center was so so so bad. I have NEVER had 3 days of bad food on a vacation like I had at DW. ugh.

I don't have children, but if I did, I would not take them to a Disney theme park. I would not buy them Disney crap especially the awful Disney books that are just commercials. There is nothing interesting, beautiful, or meaningful in Disney films and books, it's all pablum for the masses.

and oh yeah, if I were spending $10,000 on a family vacation, I'd go see real castles where real princesses lived. Like, in Europe.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 09:47:42 PM by iris lily »

startswithhome

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #63 on: April 18, 2015, 11:36:19 AM »
I'm not big on licensed character clothing, crowded theme parks (especially in hot climates), nor plastic dolls, but I don't mind the movies.

A friend gave us a VCR and about 30 movies gathered from thrift shops, because after her daughter started school and didn't know anything about princesses she couldn't converse with female classmates. Said daughter watched them a few times, and is now up on the "culture". I've let my girls (4.5 and 2) watch a movie now and then, and the 4 yo likes the "one with all the puppies" and the 2 yo likes having snacks on the couch. Also, the Muppet Christmas Carol was in the box, which I have many fond memories of, so I look forward to making that a tradition.

FarmerPete

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #64 on: May 04, 2015, 07:53:00 AM »
I've been to WDW three times in my life, and WDL once.  From an early age, I didn't see the attraction.  You pay buckets of money so that you can go stand in line.  I think that if people actually calculated how long they were on rides, the cost per hour of entertainment has to be $75 an hour, just for the tickets.

I'm not against amusement parks in general.  We have a world class coaster park within a couple hours drive, and a smaller park with a few nice coasters, kids rides, and a nice water park.  Since we don't have to fly or stay in a hotel, costs are reasonable.  We can even pack a sandwich and eat our lunch out at our car.

This last January, my wife, 2yr old, and I went to FL to visit my wife's grandma.  She's 94 and has a condo near Fort Lauderdale.  I offered to do a day at disney, but my wife declined.  I figured that since we were already in FL and the incremental cost was only the cost of two tickets (little guy gets in free) and a little gas in the rental car, I would offer.  Instead, we spend a couple hours at Playmobile Land, which cost us a combined $3 I think.  My son enjoyed it probably as much as he would have disney.

daverobev

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #65 on: May 04, 2015, 02:07:13 PM »
I'm a disliker, but I guess it's not "Disney" per-se. It's the "SuperGlobalMegaCorp" thing.

Capitalism fine, but monopolies not fine. You have Disney, Google, Apple, Microsoft just buying up anything promising *because they can*.

Star Wars Disney? Oh god it's horrible. Every two years there'll be a Star Wars something. I mean, I kind've feel sorry for George Lucas, but he's just such an idiot.

What I absolutely detest about Disney is the "Mickey Mouse Law" - namely that copyright keeps getting extended because Disney keeps on lobbying for it.

It used to be creator's life plus a few years or something like that. Which is fine - you create something, you *should* own it, the rights to it, etc.

Remember, all the copyrighted Disney stuff - at least, a good portion of it - comes from public domain stuff from *centuries* ago. Hans Christian Anderson.

That's what I hate. Copyright. And the legal abuse - I consider it abuse - that happens around it. It's not wholly one sided - pirates should generally be stopped, BUT companies should make their best effort to make content avaliable (ie, no region locks - if I want to buy a god damned Suikoden game from America I should be able to play it on my British Playstation 2!).

Big companies, unfortunately, have the means to squish far too much, and only social media - if enough people give a shit - has the power to stop them.

I wish Disney would fuck off and die, frankly. Along with Viagra adverts, Monsanto, patent trolls, yadda, yadda...

chouchouu

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #66 on: May 05, 2015, 05:54:37 AM »
I guess I'm love/hate. I loved The Little Mermaid as a kid, watched it pretty much every second day throughout summer as a 8 year old. I love the music for that and the little crab. My host family took me to Tokyo Disney when I was 16. Biggest disappointment of my childhood. The only thing I liked was Tom Sawyers island which is basically just a nice playground. It was a bit like the emperors new clothes, what's so great about Disney? I figured it must be magical for only little kiddies. Still love the Little Mermaid and bought the DVD for my kids. Still love the music, especially "Under the Sea". But we will never be going to WDW. The big trip of their childhood is going to be a safari in Africa, which will obviously be more worthy of 10k than a trip to an amusement park with fake countries to visit, a sad zoo and a bunch of people dressed up in costumes. Which is what I don't get about Disney, why go visit pretend countries when you can visit real countries? Why get on a boat that goes around a man made pond when you can get on a boat that takes you somewhere?

Having said that my girls are three and I will be taking them to Disney Paris during our trip to Europe this summer. Their tickets were 40 euros each which is much cheaper than the Disney parks in the US. They also really love the wiggles exhibition at a local museum and the talking door so I figure someone dressed as a giant mouse is right up their alley. I'll have to get back to you on whether they enjoy Disney more or the canal trip to parc de villette with the kid sized hamster wheels.

Nobody123 perhaps you might convince your wife for a trip to Paris and a side visit to the Disney there? You can rent a place on airbnb for a decent sum and there are plenty of cool things for the kids (jardin d'acclimatation, the catacombs etc) that way she still gets her disney fix and you can have a nice holiday too.

begood

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #67 on: May 05, 2015, 08:09:04 AM »
However, my wife has it in her mind that we will be horrible parents if we don't take the kids to WDW while it is still "magical" to them.  So, we have a multiple thousands of dollars line item in our budget for a trip to WDW next summer.  The fact that the boys have not asked to go ONCE is lost on her, as is the fact that I managed to not go until adulthood and turned out just fine.  I keep telling her they'd much rather have us keep the money and buy them decent used cars when they turn 16 and that I will be miserable being stuck in a crowded tourist trap for a week, but she thinks I'm just being cheap / lazy / no fun.  She's normally very level-headed when it comes to spending and has planned reasonable vacations for the past few years, but for some reason she has it in her head that we must do WDW.  She funds the majority of our vacation fund from her side gig, so I can't really argue too much about it.

Take it from someone who lived in Orlando for seven summers - you'll all enjoy the trip more if you can go sometime that is NOT in the summer. It's hard to describe how hot it can get, and there's just not enough sunscreen, hats, and water to make it okay. We had family come to visit in July because "It's hot in Atlanta in July too" and they were miserable. They went to Sea World one day and came home calling it "Heat World". Central Florida is a lovely place to visit from November to April. Any chance you can find a time in those six months to go visit?

zolotiyeruki

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #68 on: May 05, 2015, 10:57:59 AM »

Take it from someone who lived in Orlando for seven summers - you'll all enjoy the trip more if you can go sometime that is NOT in the summer. It's hard to describe how hot it can get, and there's just not enough sunscreen, hats, and water to make it okay. We had family come to visit in July because "It's hot in Atlanta in July too" and they were miserable. They went to Sea World one day and came home calling it "Heat World". Central Florida is a lovely place to visit from November to April. Any chance you can find a time in those six months to go visit?
That's a good point--my wife and I don't tolerate heat well, and 2 of our 3 trips to WDW were in off-peak months.  That probably increased our level of enjoyment significantly--not only is the weather more tolerable, but the crowds are much smaller.

cerebus

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #69 on: May 07, 2015, 06:44:41 AM »
I think there is a huge difference between Disney the classic animated filmmaker and Disney the merchandising and spinoff TV series machine. Some of the old Disney movies are classics. Lion King, Jungle Book, Snow White, Aladdin, etc. I let the kids watch those and I watch with them sometimes. I don't see the problem.

I enjoy the movies of Studio Ghibli much more though and I prefer my kids to watch those particularly because the relationships and the representations of girls are so much more nuanced and mature than 'princess-in-peril' Disney. We just saw When Marnie Was Here the other day and it seems like it might be their last film but we loved it.

kvaruni

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #70 on: May 07, 2015, 06:54:11 AM »
Our honeymoon lasted 4 weeks, spread out over Disney World, Disneyland Paris and Disney Tokyo Resort. Need I say more? ;) For us, it is just the perfect form of entertainment.

partgypsy

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #71 on: May 08, 2015, 08:28:55 PM »
Me and my husband are both from the Midwest, so the big theme park there is Six flags. For Cheesy entertainment, The Dells (I did both). 40 years later we moved to the southeast, have kids,  grandparents have also relocated near us. So when our youngest was turning 2 they offered to subsidize the entire extended family on a WDW trip. My FIL was also having health problems and feeling his own mortality so I think that was also part of the motivation.
My husband was bitterly complaining all the way up the the trip, how corporate and homogenized and materialistic to the point I was pissed at him. I thought it was disrespectful and ungrateful given that his parents were paying so the for the whole family could be together. By the end of the week, he was relaxed, in a good mood and said, "well, that wasn't so bad, I can imagine coming back here!"
As far as WDW, and looking at it as a business, they do what they do well. Customer service is outstanding. People do have a smile on their face. They were always surprising us with things, like giving all the kids free hats, or getting an extra dessert, or some kind of commerative souvenier. I know they can't make all 100K people feel special, but they come darn prettty close. Everyone from security to wait staff to the costumed actors. The parks are clean, everything is well organized. While the meal plans are not cheap I did appreciate the plan and scheduled reservations and that was another good family time. Quality time for all the cousins to hang together; play areas water interest and other child areas scattered throughout so both old and young gets a break. Can you get all those things outside of Disney? Yes, there are single proprieter places that do all that or almost all that, and can be more personalized, but Disney makes it easy and convenient to experience this.

We went again 4 years later, again the majority subsidized by the parents in law.
i agree with what someone said, that everything is good or better in moderation. I do get annoyed with the parents that feel they need to go every year or every other year, or who HAVE to watch each movie that comes out, etc. I also feel that Disney is a bit behind the times regarding their filmatic ventures and again studios like studio Ghibli make more compelling work. But this comment is more about the parks.  And I enjoyed my vacations there.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 08:33:15 PM by partgypsy »

MM_MG

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #72 on: May 09, 2015, 12:44:32 AM »
Like everything in life, Disney appears to be "relative."  I went a few times growing up, once or twice as an adult, but hadn't been back for 10+ years until our kids were old enough to go.  We had a blast as parents the first time our daughter went, and we now go once a year with extended family and have an awesome time, every time!

Of course we go on the "cheap" as much as we can.   
1) rent a place with a kitchen and cook breakfast and dinner if possible
2) carry a backpack with a built-in cooler with good healthy food to eat in the park
3) not buy a bunch of crap (food or toys) in the park
4) focus on having a great experience with the grandparents/uncles etc
5) go when there aren't going to be big crowds…rainy days are the best!

As for the movies, they are what they are.  Like all things they have positive aspects and negative aspects, what matters is what you make of it.  We have conversations with our kids about any movie they watch, included the disney ones.   

Oh and I used to own disney stock but I sold it a long time ago.  Not sure if that was a good or bad decision…and don't really care.  :)

cynmac

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #73 on: May 13, 2015, 03:10:02 AM »
My son is no longer a mini mustache in that he graduated from college last year.  But I too faced the Disney crap when he was a kid.  It was probably not as bad back then although the marketing of Happy Meal toys and the latest Disney video certainly reached him.

My daughter is 24 and "launched". More mustachiam than I am.  She liked Disney stuff when she was very young. But she not obsessive and liked other activities as well.

Quote from: Worsted Skeins
The lure of Disney World strikes at a young age.  We did go when the lad was ten.  My husband had a business trip to Orlando and we were able to get a free ride in the company car, stay in a hotel on the company's dime.  Yes, I bought overpriced Disney passes for four days.  He went and at age 10 asked, "What's the big deal?"  In recent months my son and I actually talked about this.  As a member of a family that camped and went off to museums in San Francisco or DC on occasion, he saw the artifice of Disney and could not understand the hype. 

I took my daughter at age 7 and she doesn't even remember the trip!  Her grandparents moved to Orlando and I think she went with my mom because my mom liked it.  The last time she went to Orlando, a friend drove down with her and they went to Potter World at Universal.  She and I would stop at other amusement parks with better roller coasters like Busch Gardens and water parks. She too got over Disney by age 10 too when art lessons, soccer and Harry Potter became more interesting.


midweststache

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #74 on: May 13, 2015, 05:04:07 PM »
In a scathing review of the Disney Channel, the AV Club listed Disney sitcoms as a children's shows that should be avoided at all costs. I've included the relevant section from this article (http://www.avclub.com/article/life-beyond-barney-8-kids-shows-avoid-all-costs-pa-219009) below. (The previous three articles in this series were about awesome children's shows parents wouldn't loathe, but I don't know that any Disney shows made the cut in those...)

Quote
If your previously polite child suddenly turns into a disrespectful smart aleck, check your Disney level. Studies have shown (based on an informal survey among The A.V. Club’s immediate circle of parent friends) that Disney-sitcom viewings can result in a rise in attitudinal behavior as your kids mimic what they see on the screen. An overarching element of all these shows is an idiot adult figure that the kids feel free to make fun of, usually in a servile or authority position like doorman or manager. We pin the start of this juvenile downfall to The Suite Life Of Zack And Cody, a grating pair of twins who ran roughshod over an entire luxury hotel (and later a cruise ship with The Suite Life On Deck). Today’s Disney shows, from Lab Rats (let’s make fun of the principal!) to Jessie (let’s make fun of the butler!) have kept this tradition alive. Out of the entire batch, only one Disney series really resonates: Good Luck Charlie offered a realistic family show as the eldest daughter tried to warn her baby sister about their crazy family. Even then, the middle kid was kind of a wiseacre. The rest, explore at your peril. Although our own Pilot Viruet will defend Dog With A Blog to her death.

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #75 on: May 13, 2015, 10:37:47 PM »
I don't like Disney very much, but I don't feel as passionate about that dislike as some of you. Anger is not a very sustainable emotion, long-term. I feel very nostalgic about the older movies which was basically all we were allowed to watch when I was a child, especially Beauty and the Beast, but also I feel like I learned a very negative messages about how to be as a woman from them.

I do like Tangled quite a bit as it parallels my childhood in a very eery way (look up "Quivering Daughters" for real world context); I even had a Finn figure in my life.

But I don't want my children to watch Disney stuff while they're young and impressionable and pick up the messages that I did. Maybe when they're teens we will watch the classic ones together as a "when I was a kid...." thing, and so they can have that bit of cultural literacy.

Malaysia41

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #76 on: May 13, 2015, 10:45:50 PM »
I hate Disney TV.  In every show I've seen, the kids are disrespectful little shits who treat their parents with contempt.  The parents are bumbling fools who somehow deserve such treatment. 

I blame these kinds of TV shows for the shitty attitude kids adopt.  They're parrots for God's sakes.  Stop giving kids such drivel as The Suite Life of Zach and Cody.  (Yeah - you can date exactly when I started hating Disney - when my step-daughters still lived at home 10+ years ago). 

Sure, there's usually a moral to the story that gets zipped up in the last 30 seconds.  Problem is, the kids steep in this asinine behavior for the first 29 1/2 minutes.  They don't pay attention to the last 30 seconds.   Just...  stop.

Not having cable is such a blessing.  My son doesn't know these shows.  Of course, avatar and other shows can be just as bad, and after a while there's only so much control a parent can exert over the media their kid consumes. 

But I'll never stop hating Disney.  Ever.

cerebus

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #77 on: May 14, 2015, 01:46:47 AM »
I have a lot of control over the kind of media my kids consume, and I want to try to keep that up. I curate my kids' show collection very carefully.

Malaysia41

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #78 on: May 14, 2015, 03:18:19 AM »
I have a lot of control over the kind of media my kids consume, and I want to try to keep that up. I curate my kids' show collection very carefully.

At home, it's possible.  At friends' houses, not so much.

cerebus

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #79 on: May 14, 2015, 03:27:15 AM »
I have a lot of control over the kind of media my kids consume, and I want to try to keep that up. I curate my kids' show collection very carefully.

At home, it's possible.  At friends' houses, not so much.

Yeah that's true. Well.... at least I try to get them to know what good TV shows and movies are when they're at home. If they watch something somewhere else there's not a whole lot I can do about it I guess but they're not coming back home and getting all jackassey because they watched some Disney Channel shows or you know..worse.

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #80 on: May 14, 2015, 09:23:05 PM »
My Disney Love/Hate has nothing to do with consumerism, exploitation or body image. I guess I'm weird.

When I was in my teens i dug into folk history and tradition. I took the time at about 15 to read the Iliad and the Odyssey (Abridged/english) and I dug into Aesop and Grimm. And I was shocked. There were people killing kids all over the place. Princesses cutting off each others' feet. Grannies eaten by wolves and so on and so on. All the versions of these things I had seen were nothing like the original texts - and the deeper I dug, the more inconsistent the cartoons and stories I had seen were.

Then I realized - most of the folk history I had been referred to in my nursery years had been vetted through Disney. This was the three little pigs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kT2Kt8TVPU  I had it in a read-along-record book (You'll know its time to turn the page when tinkerbell rings her bells, like this <CHIME>) that we played on a mickey mouse record player. I had never picked up on the postwar nuances (note the pigs uniforms and the machine gun actions). In fact, the Disney version was the only version I knew of so many stories. Cinderella, Snow white, Little Red Riding Hood, Hansel and Gretel, and so on.

As I read, I learned that Disney had tweaked nearly every story to sell better or be more palatable to the parents they were marketing to. And I hated them for the inaccuracies. I mean if hundreds of years ago kids could hear about other kids being carried away by faerie folk, chopped up, eaten by bears and wolves, beating each other, etc.  then surely we could handle it in the '70s. (I love what the Waterboys did with Yeats' Stolen child for instance - this is how a great children's tale ought to be told, although its hardly marketable to 5 yr olds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg-oJKYIinQ)

But now I sortof like them for the marketing. I mean, yeah, they've corrupted nearly every story line they've touched (including historical stories like Pocahontas) but they have also managed to salvage an entire history of folk stories - or enough of the meat of those stories that we can go search for the rest of the story if we want to. The question is, how many people actually want to read 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea when Disney has made it into an exciting film? or Winnie the Pooh (a treasure of a book that they absolutely saved while absolutely destroying) etc. etc. In my head when someone says they love a classic story and immediately quote Disney, it says, I liked this movie, but I know nothing of the story, and can't be bothered to learn. (A great example here is The Hunchback of Notre Dame - its so much work to read that book, and the movie is soooo easy!!!)

So I hate Disney. I hate them because they take fantastic children's lit, cheapen it down to the crappiest most saleable junk they can mass produce, and then spew it out for the masses. But while I hate them I love them. I love them because 5% of the millions of people who go to watch 'Song of the South' will take the time to look up the stories by Uncle Remus, and maybe visit his cottage in Atlanta. And that will spur them on to ask questions about why the slaves needed those stories and what they were really about, and then maybe they'll realize that that bear was really a characterization of a group of people, and that a briar patch wasn't just a bramble. And then maybe they'll learn a little more about their own history. At least I hope so.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 09:31:14 PM by Prospector »

cerebus

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #81 on: May 15, 2015, 01:17:35 AM »
My Disney Love/Hate has nothing to do with consumerism, exploitation or body image. I guess I'm weird.

When I was in my teens i dug into folk history and tradition. I took the time at about 15 to read the Iliad and the Odyssey (Abridged/english) and I dug into Aesop and Grimm. And I was shocked. There were people killing kids all over the place. Princesses cutting off each others' feet. Grannies eaten by wolves and so on and so on. All the versions of these things I had seen were nothing like the original texts - and the deeper I dug, the more inconsistent the cartoons and stories I had seen were.

Then I realized - most of the folk history I had been referred to in my nursery years had been vetted through Disney. This was the three little pigs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kT2Kt8TVPU  I had it in a read-along-record book (You'll know its time to turn the page when tinkerbell rings her bells, like this <CHIME>) that we played on a mickey mouse record player. I had never picked up on the postwar nuances (note the pigs uniforms and the machine gun actions). In fact, the Disney version was the only version I knew of so many stories. Cinderella, Snow white, Little Red Riding Hood, Hansel and Gretel, and so on.

As I read, I learned that Disney had tweaked nearly every story to sell better or be more palatable to the parents they were marketing to. And I hated them for the inaccuracies. I mean if hundreds of years ago kids could hear about other kids being carried away by faerie folk, chopped up, eaten by bears and wolves, beating each other, etc.  then surely we could handle it in the '70s. (I love what the Waterboys did with Yeats' Stolen child for instance - this is how a great children's tale ought to be told, although its hardly marketable to 5 yr olds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg-oJKYIinQ)

But now I sortof like them for the marketing. I mean, yeah, they've corrupted nearly every story line they've touched (including historical stories like Pocahontas) but they have also managed to salvage an entire history of folk stories - or enough of the meat of those stories that we can go search for the rest of the story if we want to. The question is, how many people actually want to read 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea when Disney has made it into an exciting film? or Winnie the Pooh (a treasure of a book that they absolutely saved while absolutely destroying) etc. etc. In my head when someone says they love a classic story and immediately quote Disney, it says, I liked this movie, but I know nothing of the story, and can't be bothered to learn. (A great example here is The Hunchback of Notre Dame - its so much work to read that book, and the movie is soooo easy!!!)

So I hate Disney. I hate them because they take fantastic children's lit, cheapen it down to the crappiest most saleable junk they can mass produce, and then spew it out for the masses. But while I hate them I love them. I love them because 5% of the millions of people who go to watch 'Song of the South' will take the time to look up the stories by Uncle Remus, and maybe visit his cottage in Atlanta. And that will spur them on to ask questions about why the slaves needed those stories and what they were really about, and then maybe they'll realize that that bear was really a characterization of a group of people, and that a briar patch wasn't just a bramble. And then maybe they'll learn a little more about their own history. At least I hope so.

In fact the early Disney films were properly dark and quite authentic, for what they were, to the original Grimm tales. Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Cinderella - all not a million miles from the original. In a lot of cases the source material is just a springing board, like Jungle Book, which bears so little resemblance to the Kipling original that it's hardly worth calling it by the same name, but it's a brilliant, exuberant piece of musical animation in its own right. Same for Robin Hood. Hunchback was actually very faithful to the book, IIRC - even the dark ending.

In the case of Winnie the Pooh, I kind of agree but then if you read the original books what stands out is just the delightful wordplay, and the movies never managed to replicate that, but how could they really? I wouldn't say they 'destroyed' anything because they're really fun well made kids movies; they're just not Milne. Personally I see any movie version of any other material as a loose interpretation of the original - like Ghibli's version of The Borrowers - even Shakespeare took great liberties with the folk stories that became Hamlet, Macbeth, King Lear etc - and you may as well rail against Shakespearification.

Kaplin261

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #82 on: May 17, 2015, 06:38:28 PM »
I was at Disney a couple hours ago and loved it. We were at animal kingdom today. The amount of detail that they put into it is amazing. We did magic kingdom a couple days ago and it wasn't to bad, again the detail they give to the landscapes and buildings is amazing.

We had a direct flight out of Richmond, VA that was less then 2h, a direct flight was a must because we are traveling with a 18 month old toddler. We did not stay on a Disney resort bit found one 15 minutes away that has amazing ammentities (Fanatasy World Resort).

Wednesday to Wednesday(cheapest flight options),mid size rental car,resort stay in a two bedroom townhouse with a full size kitchen. Only costed us $1200 plus two adult Disney tickets $360 puts us a little over $1500 for 8 days in a tropical paradise. We also get to avoid restaurants because were able to grocery shop and cook.

If your willing to work while on vacation you can even get better deals then what I got by doing a time share presentation for 90 minutes.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2015, 06:40:20 PM by Kaplin261 »

Helvegen

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #83 on: May 18, 2015, 09:47:37 AM »
I am Disney neutral. I went to Disneyland when I was in kindergarten and remember pretty much nothing about it. I never had any burning desire as a child to go back or anything.

My daughter has asked to go once or twice, but is far more interested in going on another cruise. So I figured we could meet in the middle and next cruise (whenever that is) would be a Disney one. Can kill two birds with one stone that way.


iris lily

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #84 on: May 25, 2015, 08:41:27 PM »
My Disney Love/Hate has nothing to do with consumerism, exploitation or body image. I guess I'm weird.

When I was in my teens i dug into folk history and tradition. I took the time at about 15 to read the Iliad and the Odyssey (Abridged/english) and I dug into Aesop and Grimm. And I was shocked. There were people killing kids all over the place. Princesses cutting off each others' feet. Grannies eaten by wolves and so on and so on. All the versions of these things I had seen were nothing like the original texts - and the deeper I dug, the more inconsistent the cartoons and stories I had seen were.

Then I realized - most of the folk history I had been referred to in my nursery years had been vetted through Disney. This was the three little pigs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kT2Kt8TVPU  I had it in a read-along-record book (You'll know its time to turn the page when tinkerbell rings her bells, like this <CHIME>) that we played on a mickey mouse record player. I had never picked up on the postwar nuances (note the pigs uniforms and the machine gun actions). In fact, the Disney version was the only version I knew of so many stories. Cinderella, Snow white, Little Red Riding Hood, Hansel and Gretel, and so on.

As I read, I learned that Disney had tweaked nearly every story to sell better or be more palatable to the parents they were marketing to. And I hated them for the inaccuracies. I mean if hundreds of years ago kids could hear about other kids being carried away by faerie folk, chopped up, eaten by bears and wolves, beating each other, etc.  then surely we could handle it in the '70s. (I love what the Waterboys did with Yeats' Stolen child for instance - this is how a great children's tale ought to be told, although its hardly marketable to 5 yr olds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg-oJKYIinQ)

But now I sortof like them for the marketing. I mean, yeah, they've corrupted nearly every story line they've touched (including historical stories like Pocahontas) but they have also managed to salvage an entire history of folk stories - or enough of the meat of those stories that we can go search for the rest of the story if we want to. The question is, how many people actually want to read 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea when Disney has made it into an exciting film? or Winnie the Pooh (a treasure of a book that they absolutely saved while absolutely destroying) etc. etc. In my head when someone says they love a classic story and immediately quote Disney, it says, I liked this movie, but I know nothing of the story, and can't be bothered to learn. (A great example here is The Hunchback of Notre Dame - its so much work to read that book, and the movie is soooo easy!!!)

So I hate Disney. I hate them because they take fantastic children's lit, cheapen it down to the crappiest most saleable junk they can mass produce, and then spew it out for the masses. But while I hate them I love them. I love them because 5% of the millions of people who go to watch 'Song of the South' will take the time to look up the stories by Uncle Remus, and maybe visit his cottage in Atlanta. And that will spur them on to ask questions about why the slaves needed those stories and what they were really about, and then maybe they'll realize that that bear was really a characterization of a group of people, and that a briar patch wasn't just a bramble. And then maybe they'll learn a little more about their own history. At least I hope so.

In fact the early Disney films were properly dark and quite authentic, for what they were, to the original Grimm tales. Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Cinderella - all not a million miles from the original. In a lot of cases the source material is just a springing board, like Jungle Book, which bears so little resemblance to the Kipling original that it's hardly worth calling it by the same name, but it's a brilliant, exuberant piece of musical animation in its own right. Same for Robin Hood. Hunchback was actually very faithful to the book, IIRC - even the dark ending.

In the case of Winnie the Pooh, I kind of agree but then if you read the original books what stands out is just the delightful wordplay, and the movies never managed to replicate that, but how could they really? I wouldn't say they 'destroyed' anything because they're really fun well made kids movies; they're just not Milne. Personally I see any movie version of any other material as a loose interpretation of the original - like Ghibli's version of The Borrowers - even Shakespeare took great liberties with the folk stories that became Hamlet, Macbeth, King Lear etc - and you may as well rail against Shakespearification.

Funny you should mention The Borrowers (and I haven't seen Arrietty, but I know it got great reviews and I will eventually see it!) it was Mary Norton's Bednobs and Broomssticks thatwas turned into a terrible Disney film. It really pissed me off. I LOVE The Borrowers and wasn't happy with the John Goodman film years later, although I only saw bits of it. I knew I wouldn't like it.

At one time in my life my winning-the-lottery-goal was to buy up film rights to The Borrowers so that Disney couldn't come along and spoil it.

cerebus

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #85 on: May 25, 2015, 10:26:28 PM »


Funny you should mention The Borrowers (and I haven't seen Arrietty, but I know it got great reviews and I will eventually see it!) it was Mary Norton's Bednobs and Broomssticks thatwas turned into a terrible Disney film. It really pissed me off. I LOVE The Borrowers and wasn't happy with the John Goodman film years later, although I only saw bits of it. I knew I wouldn't like it.

At one time in my life my winning-the-lottery-goal was to buy up film rights to The Borrowers so that Disney couldn't come along and spoil it.

Arrietty is not the Borrowers but in spirit it's very close to the feel of the book, especially the vulnerability of the world they inhabit. It's a very good film. Similarly with When Marnie Was There this year. But I'm just crazy about Ghibli and bitterly sorry that they might not be making another movie.


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LiveLean

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #86 on: May 28, 2015, 11:29:20 AM »
As the captain of the Anti-Disney team, I begrudgingly allowed out sixth-grader to go on his class field trip to Disney's Animal Kingdom today.

There were some kids that didn't get to go. I'm going to get their names and contact their parents.

We need to spend more time with them.

Livewell

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #87 on: May 30, 2015, 12:27:45 PM »
Our daughter (3) loves Frozen.  We watch the "gateway drug" known as Sofia the first too.  But we limit it.  Most of the time it's not about the things, instead she pretends to be the characters in frozen and sing the songs.  Also helped a ton when our new baby sister came, as she was very much into being a good big sister (not all Frozen of course, but I think a good influence). 

We are planning a trip to Dland this summer, looking forward to seeing her light up.

I think this is just a phase.  She likes playing at the park and collecting rocks and going to the beach just as much.  When she's older this will all be just boring but the memories will remain.

I also think it's ok to "expose" them to some consumerism.  How else will they be able to see there are other paths?  There was a time I would go to the mall every weekend, now I can't stand it.  There was a time I sought happiness through things, but outgrew it.  I think it will be the same for our daughters.

thegradwife

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #88 on: June 01, 2015, 06:04:31 PM »
I'm only strongly anti-Frozen. She's not allowed near that movie. But any other movie is fine.

As a general rule, I don't allow any character toys or products in our home, but the movies are fine. I'm against my child being used as a tool to get me to buy unwanted stuff. It applies to registries, theme parks, etc.

eccdogg

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #89 on: June 18, 2015, 10:50:01 AM »
I would put myself in the hate camp for the parks.  I an indifferent on the movies and the merchandize.

The parks are just so wildly overpriced and undervalued.  I have been several times since my wife wanted to go and at best I have had a slightly above average time and usually a bad time. 

I think Jim Gaffigan nails it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYacdfsORec


zolotiyeruki

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #90 on: June 18, 2015, 03:17:00 PM »
I would put myself in the hate camp for the parks.
You know, it's interesting.  A couple weeks ago we were with my wife's family, and we went to an amusement park (for the record, it was Lagoon in Utah).  And I think I finally understand why people hate the parks.  It's because you're doing it wrong.

And we did it wrong on that day.  We went on a high-volume day.  We didn't have a plan for hitting the rides, so we ended up waiting in lines along with hordes of other people.  We didn't have a good plan for food.  We tried to stick with the bigger group.

I'll be the first to admit that a lot of the rides are kinda lame. I'm looking at you, Peter Pan, Winnie the Pooh, Dumbo, etc.  And I couldn't care less about meeting the characters.  But I still enjoy it.  Here's how:
0) Leave your cynicism at the door.  Relax.
1) Go in the off-season
2) Check the crowd calendars, and go to the parks that are less crowded (yes, different parks get different crowd levels on the same day)
3) Plan your route around the park so you hit the most popular rides early in the day and the end of the day.
4) Eat lunch a bit earlier than most, and hit rides while more people are eating lunch.
5) Hit the less popular rides in the early-to-mid afternoon
6) Avoid the gift shops
7) Take time for the non-ride stuff--the piano players, the Main Street Band, the Dapper Dans, etc.  They're better than most of the other attractions.

If you manage to avoid the lines, have a plan, and relax, it can really be a great experience.

MrsPotts

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #91 on: June 18, 2015, 07:30:39 PM »
I love Disney.  Disney makes me happy.  I also love camping, art museums,  riding my bike, international travel, Coursera, and making my own ricotta, while hating all things corporate, and I happily experience no cognitive dissonance.

For the record, DisneyLand is way better than DisneyWorld, Beauty and the Beast is by far the best Disney movie ever, Disneyland Paris has the best booze, and my guest bathroom is an alter to Mickey Mouse.

merula

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #92 on: June 19, 2015, 11:45:10 AM »
my guest bathroom is an alter to Mickey Mouse.

So, your bathroom could be mistaken for the character Mickey Mouse, or it is a place where people go to worship him?

(Homophone mixups give me hives.)

Insanity

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #93 on: June 19, 2015, 12:27:12 PM »
We have season passes to Sesame Place for our kids.  My wife takes them when crowds are low.  However , it convinced her the kids are too you and her patience to low for Disney!  Win!


MrsPotts

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #94 on: June 19, 2015, 12:33:03 PM »
my guest bathroom is an alter to Mickey Mouse.

So, your bathroom could be mistaken for the character Mickey Mouse, or it is a place where people go to worship him?

(Homophone mixups give me hives.)

Oops.  Lol.   

kvaruni

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #95 on: July 20, 2015, 05:51:12 AM »
For the record, DisneyLand is way better than DisneyWorld, Beauty and the Beast is by far the best Disney movie ever, Disneyland Paris has the best booze, and my guest bathroom is an altar to Mickey Mouse.

Homophone issues aside, it sounds like you really need to plan a (frugal) trip to Tokyo :).

FLBiker

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #96 on: July 21, 2015, 09:34:00 AM »
Totally on board the hate train.  And I live ~1 hour from Disney World.  My daughter is just 3 mos, but I'm sure there's some conversations a-coming.

My reasons: basically the mecca of consumer capitalism, particularly targets children with incredibly expensive advertisements, & lousy female rolemodels (even Frozen, which people said was somehow different)

I don't share the theme park hate, though.  I love rides.  I live ~5 minutes from Busch Gardens and had an annual pass (~$100) for several of the past few years.  Once my daughter is old enough, we'll go.  We won't by any crap, though (other than a meal).  A nice thing about Busch Gardens is that the branding is way less than other parks.  They don't have ties with movies / cartoons, so it's all their own nonsense.

Speaking of which, my wife and I have been (and intend to be) strict about no branded clothes / toys / books etc for as long as we can.  The aggressive marketing of brands to children is gross.

Trifele

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #97 on: July 21, 2015, 07:37:32 PM »
FL Biker -- amen to everything you said.

Zamboni

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #98 on: July 21, 2015, 08:26:43 PM »
Okay, I hate the Disney Channel. It is horrible. Thankfully I don't have cable, so I only every have to deal with it in hotels. The shows are just . . . horrible.

But I have enjoyed their family movies despite the shortcomings, and the theme parks are refreshingly handicapped accessible. It was one of the few vacations we could take with my late FIL (a vet paralyzed from the neck down) where he could enjoy pretty much everything. Even most of the rides allowed his motorized chair on board. You'd be surprised how difficult it is for people with severe physical disabilities to enjoy travel. For example, Europe with him was pretty much a catastrophe due to accessibility problems (even places that said they were accessible would have "just a step or two," for example, or doorways that were too narrow, or their elevator would be broken.) I never went to Disney World until I was an adult, and it was pretty much the only vacation I ever enjoyed with my inlaws. 

I never really cared about the merchandising because I got everything for my children second hand. If someone wants to buy an expensive t-shirt with a character on it and then sell it to me for $1, I don't have a problem with that and double bonus if it makes my daughter happy. She loved her Cinderella shirt but she also loved her shirt with a tiger on it. She liked to wear a crown and wave a magic wand, but she also liked her construction hat, her various masks, and the Darth Vader helmet (more merchandising, I know, but a 3 year old girl coming around the corner to scare you wearing an adult size darth vader helmet is pretty hilarious). I took any pestering I got about specific merchandise that I thought was crap or overpriced as just an opportunity to teach my kids about "no" or delayed gratification anyway.

But it's fine with me if you are anti-Disney.

bsmith

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #99 on: July 21, 2015, 08:50:18 PM »
I have a real aversion to all things Disney. Both for the crass commercialism, and the sexist stories of princesses needing to be rescued and bumbling fools of men running around.

I know adults who try to go there every single year, and I'm thinking, jeez, I'd rather go overseas or to Mexico and meet interesting people and learn about other cultures and their histories. Oh, they say, but you would LOVE Epcot or the small world area because you can learn SO much there... Yeah I still have no interest. They think I must just Not Love Fun. I want to facepunch those mindless morons. Like it if you want to, but if you can't see there's more to the world than a cleaned up fantasy representation of it, I can't help you.