Author Topic: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?  (Read 29852 times)

Geostache

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How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« on: April 07, 2015, 08:24:38 PM »
I face this everywhere I go. I am very anti-Disney, and have been since before I had kids. Nobody understands why I have this visceral reaction to the entire franchise; even DH and I quibble about it occasionally. It's even worse now that I have kids. It's like I'm expected to embrace the culture and relinquish my feelings on the subject. Before my kids were even born, they were gifted with giant Mickey and Minnie dolls.

In case anyone is wondering, here are some of the few reasons why I'm not a fan:
- I think it sets a poor example for girls and their self image. And yes, I've heard the Rapunzel and "Brave" arguments. I'm still not buying it.
- Overpriced, over-marketed, over-hyped merchandise that encourages mindless spending on a bunch of crap no one needs (has anyone else seen their FB feeds flooded with the "Frozen" crap people buy by the bucketloads for their kids?)
- The theme parks. Don't even get me started. Paying through the nose to have a 'magical' experience. How about I take my kids to a National Park and have them explore the magic of the natural world? For a fraction of the cost?

If you have experienced the anti-Disney backlash, how did you handle it?

Kris

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2015, 08:29:59 PM »
Yeah, I hate it, too. For especially the first reason you listed, but also the entire bloated industry, as well.

MsFrugalista

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2015, 08:33:00 PM »
We feel the exact same way.
I always get the comment: "oh, but you have to take him at least once! How can you not?!?"
I just shrug it off and smile :)

iamsoners

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2015, 08:58:59 PM »
same.  I feel this way about all branding aimed at kiddos--Thomas the Train, Angry Birds, even Sesame Street.  I got a little rage-y when we were trying to buy a toothbrush for my son at Target and there weren't ANY that didn't have some marketed character on them.  He's still young but it just seems like kids get really into characters and it messes with their minds.  We have a couple Thomas things and I just call them trains and engines and whatnot--I'm sure he'll pick it up eventually but not from mom and dad...

Trifele

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2015, 04:24:15 AM »
Same here. Hate Disney and also deal with all the comments from others.  Sigh.

ToeInTheWater

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2015, 04:45:32 AM »
i am.  not quite in the "hate disney" crowd, more of a "i just don't get the attraction"

i'm definitely in the minority in my family on this.

b

furrychickens

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2015, 05:49:35 AM »
Funny, I came here this AM to post this exact thread, only to find someone beat me to it! Weird how some of us are on the same wavelengths.

I don't find the movies themselves all that bad, but I hate the commercialization, all the crap - and most of it is the cheapest garbage imaginable - my kids get, etc. But I'm way in the minority.

Disney is the worst because of how 'successful' they are, but my hatred goes to basically all licensed characters pushed at kids.

Worsted Skeins

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2015, 06:10:39 AM »
My son is no longer a mini mustache in that he graduated from college last year.  But I too faced the Disney crap when he was a kid.  It was probably not as bad back then although the marketing of Happy Meal toys and the latest Disney video certainly reached him.

Of course, as a Mustachian by nature, I was not buying the latest video release or piles of cheap toys.  My son had Legos, Playmobile and Nerf guns--no Disney stuff there but it might have been simpler as a boy.

The lure of Disney World strikes at a young age.  We did go when the lad was ten.  My husband had a business trip to Orlando and we were able to get a free ride in the company car, stay in a hotel on the company's dime.  Yes, I bought overpriced Disney passes for four days.  He went and at age 10 asked, "What's the big deal?"

In recent months my son and I actually talked about this.  As a member of a family that camped and went off to museums in San Francisco or DC on occasion, he saw the artifice of Disney and could not understand the hype.  Maybe we suffer from an inability to suspend belief in this household; we failed to see the magic.

I do know some families that adore Disney parks or cruises for the escape they provided.  Some parents like a break from cooking, for example. 

But it is the licensed character aspect that is challenging to escape today.  I have nieces and nephews who are having children for whom I buy books.  Basic counting and alphabet books are filled with licensed characters. I despise it.

MayDay

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2015, 06:31:21 AM »
I fall somewhere between dislike and hate. 

I hate all the licensed product CRAP.  it is such junk.  The movies, eh, whatever, I don't love the messages, but an occasional movie thrown into a steady diet of PBS Kids messages isn't a huge deal. 

The theme parks, I can't really comment since I've never been.  It is one of my mom's dreams to take the kids to Disney world. If I was paying I might do a single day as part of a vacation to other things in the area, just for the cultural awareness, but not until they are old enough to remember and enjoy everything.  I don't buy into the princess/magic part of it. 

That said, I have in my hands a 5 year old who is obsessed with all things Frozen.  We own for the first time ever, licensed character clothing.  Horrors.  She has a few of the knick-knack crap, like dress up shoes and a tiara.  But I've also sewn her an Anna dress for the doll she already has, my mom sewed her an Elsa Halloween costume, we made her an Elsa magic wand out of wood scraps we already had in the house, I made her a Frozen birthday cake myself, etc. 

I figure it's not worth a big stink about it, she'll outgrow it pretty soon.  And she actually still has very little interest in watching the movie, it's the pretend play/dress up aspect that captured her attention. 

Geostache

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2015, 06:37:31 AM »
It really is unavoidable. At two, my kids don't even watch tv or movies yet. But it's all around them. Daycare is having a "Disney" day for school spirit week, where the kids are encouraged to dress up as their favorite character. That is what prompted this particular bout of stabbiness. I complained to the director, half-jokingly about the ridiculousness of it all.

same.  I feel this way about all branding aimed at kiddos--Thomas the Train, Angry Birds, even Sesame Street.  I got a little rage-y when we were trying to buy a toothbrush for my son at Target and there weren't ANY that didn't have some marketed character on them.  He's still young but it just seems like kids get really into characters and it messes with their minds.  We have a couple Thomas things and I just call them trains and engines and whatnot--I'm sure he'll pick it up eventually but not from mom and dad...

The toothbrush thing! I know! We had a similar experience looking for sunglasses. Dude. They're sunglasses. Do they really need to be adorned with commercial characters? My kids love to wear them regardless of what's on them. They don't need to be franchised!

I'm glad to know I'm not alone in all of this! No one in my immediate circle of friends understands my point of view. Sigh.

midweststache

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2015, 06:38:37 AM »
I went to Disneyland as a kid. I have no memories other than I got a headache one night and missed the fireworks. Also, I thought the Small World ride was creepy.

I have no strong feelings about Disney, but the BF is anti-Disney. I do want to go to HP World, and even that is a big fat NO for him.

I just don't see the appeal of the brand. And BF hates it from a corporate/capitalist/monopoly perspective... similar qualms I have about the American Girl brand.

I do think if we have progeny that we will avoid Disney (but probably not in any sort of religious way, particularly now that Pixar is part of Disney). We don't watch TV, so the Disney Channel won't be a thing for our kids; when they get old enough to start requesting movies, we'll start them on Ghibli and Muppets. We'll also frequent our library to promote books over TV.

nico demouse

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2015, 06:40:03 AM »
I got a little rage-y when we were trying to buy a toothbrush for my son at Target and there weren't ANY that didn't have some marketed character on them.

Yes! And then, it kills me that when I can find an unbranded toothbrush, they are always MORE expensive!p than the branded toothbrushes! Sometimes I settle on Peanuts characters, since I'm pretty sure my son has no idea who Snoopy or Woodstock are, and that franchise seems less EVERYWHERE than some of the others.

Thank goodness my son despised Frozen, we are probably the only family I know who has never seen the whole movie. Turned it off partway through.

chemgeek

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2015, 07:17:29 AM »
same.  I feel this way about all branding aimed at kiddos--Thomas the Train, Angry Birds, even Sesame Street.  I got a little rage-y when we were trying to buy a toothbrush for my son at Target and there weren't ANY that didn't have some marketed character on them.  He's still young but it just seems like kids get really into characters and it messes with their minds.  We have a couple Thomas things and I just call them trains and engines and whatnot--I'm sure he'll pick it up eventually but not from mom and dad...

In defense of Sesame Street, the characters were initially licensed for merchandise to fund the making of the show. The first runs of Sesame Street were funded with grants, and when those ran out, since it was public non-profit television, they decided to license books and music to pay for it. The marketing has obviously changed dramatically since then, but the initial motivation wasn't totally greedy.

tod

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2015, 07:29:44 AM »
Has nobody mentioned the horrible Disney Channel yet? The very name strikes fear in my heart. Having to watch the Disney Channel is incredibly painful. Everything about their sitcoms is terrible. They play canned laughter for lines that wouldn't get laughs from retarded monkeys. I believe the plots are determined by spinning a big wheel and rolling dice. Or maybe the "writers" are algorithms. And the acting... well, I hate to criticize young people who have aspirations, and are probably excited to work in TV. But seriously, if they all got together, they couldn't make a believable infomercial.

The original files, tapes, and prints of Disney Channel sitcoms should be blasted into the sun. No, actually, maybe we should save a few copies in a Level 4 Biohazard facility to torture terrorists with.

It's gotten to the point that I have to tell the kids to put SpongeBob on, so we can have thought-provoking, quality entertainment.*

Dear Disney: Please take your overpriced, boring theme parks with fake landscapes and forced smiles, and your consumeristic merchandising, and your awful entertainment (except Pixar, which is only good because it isn't Disney) and shut it all down, and return the money to the shareholders.

*Also, Regular Show and Adventure Time are awesome, and could never have been done by Disney. Regular Show in particular doesn't lend itself to merchandising.

« Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 07:32:38 AM by tod »

MandalayVA

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2015, 07:35:07 AM »
An interesting bit of history about Disney, at least for me--when Disney World first opened in 1971 it didn't advertise, not even with billboards.  You just drove up the highway and there you were.  There were TV specials from time to time (for some reason I always remember the one when Space Mountain was opened) but that was it.  I went a lot as a kid since I have family in the area, and my memories are all good.

Then in 1984, the man directly responsible for making your kids demand Frozen stuff took over--Michael Eisner.  He was the one who put up the billboards, turned rides into commercials, and licensed characters all over the place.  The last straw for me was when the Enchanted Tiki Room, which was my mom's and my favorite place to cool off and enjoy a show, got changed to an "Aladdin" theme.  I may have actually yelled MIKE EISNER YOU BASTARD! during the show.  I got to go to Disneyland a few years ago, and that is much more old school Disney--and it had the original Tiki show, which made me happy.

It's sad, too, that the kids only want to see the princesses these days.  I remember there would be lines out the wazoo to see Mickey Mouse.  Now he probably gets run over by the stampede to Elsa.

/you can get off my lawn now  :D

Dicey

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2015, 07:38:20 AM »
Sorry, anti-who?

Calimandc

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2015, 07:39:33 AM »
We have a visceral reaction to Disney as well.  Our son (almost 4) is currently unaware of characters, despite having a few on products that we just can't find without some licensed figure upon it (toothbrushes). 

We expect that as he goes higher in school he will be increasingly exposed to Disney, and we'll have to have a conversation at some point about theme park visiting. 

What irks me most, though, is that good characters who used to be independent are now Disney.  Winnie the Pooh, Marval, etc. have all been bought up by Disney.  There is an ever smaller independent story line available for non-Disney stuff.

We wonder if living abroad (Latin America, SE Asia) may help with this exposure issue.  Disney exists in these locations, but may not be as prevalent.

Like many have said already on this board, it's great to know that there are others who feel this way!

Louisville

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2015, 07:56:42 AM »
My kids are grown now, but I don't remember the evil of Disney trying to get them in its clutches.
Either buy their products, or don't. Seems kind of silly to get all worked up about.

TonyPlush

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2015, 08:42:31 AM »
- I think it sets a poor example for girls and their self image. And yes, I've heard the Rapunzel and "Brave" arguments. I'm still not buying it.
As a young guy, I'm clueless to this point. Anyone care to elaborate?

hunniebun

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2015, 09:36:49 AM »
I guess I am in the minority (likely because I am really just a mustachian wanna be!), but I like Disney. I do get the adverse reaction and even as a Disney fan, I am a little turned off when you walk into a store and it looks like Frozen threw up on everything.  I have a daughter nearly 3 and she is a huge fan of both Brave and Rapunzel.  My son watched Mickey mouse club house on the disney channel when he was younger and loved that show.  I like the shows and movies because they generally have some learning (numbers and letters) or lessons above love, loyalty, what it means to be a good friend etc.  I think the new movies do a better job for the girls (like in frozen it was sisterly love that thawed the ice...not romantic love) and in Brave there isn't even a prince.  The older Disney princess movies tend to the have the poorer message of look pretty and a boy will come save you. Barf.   I guess I think most things in moderation are fine...we have a few stuffies, a few character shirts or whatever. 

LiveLean

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2015, 09:41:57 AM »
I am the captain of the anti-Disney team. We have lived within 90 minutes of Disney for 17 years and proud to say we've never been, not even with kids now 12 and 9. Carl Hiaasen's book Team Rodent should be must reading. (I've given copies to in-laws, and sister-in-law who love Disney and they didn't read it, even though it's only 120 pages or so.)

The Disney blueprint is to create pre-packaged crap and cross promote it to death so that lemmings will continue to buy it. They've made ESPN unwatchable since buying Capital Cities in 1996. I cringe over what they're going to do to Star Wars.

One of the happiest, most successful people I know is the second-generation owner of an Orlando real estate operation that sells unwanted Disney timeshares. Fortunately for her there's no shortage of idiots who buy and then regret.

As a native Virginian, I was never more proud than I was in the early 1990s when Disney had the nerve to plan a "Disney America" theme park where they'd pave over areas of actual historical significance to build a shrine to their spin on history and all of the requisite consumer tie-in garbage, making that section of Northern Virginia look like the consumer slum trailer park that is much of Kissimmee. Northern Virginia gave Disney the finger and it never happened. It was beautiful to watch.

shedinator

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2015, 09:47:59 AM »
I tend to separate Disney Movies from the Disney Industrial ComplexTM. Movies vary between and within studios - Brave, Frozen, Rapunzel, Princess and the Frog, Mulan... all pretty decent female leads (although the heteronormativity gets annoying after a while). On the other hand, Dreamworks didn't have a female lead of any sort, good or bad, until 2009's Monsters vs. Aliens. So I take movies on a film-by-film basis without really giving much attention to what studio they come from.

But the branding nonsense is unconscionable. My son is very much in the "Must own all the things my classmates do" age bracket, and while he knows the answer is going to be no, he still makes his case on a regular basis. What's ridiculous to me is the number of things that are the exact same as something we either already own, or could do for free. For instance, I could spend $19.99 on a Disney Pictionary game... or we could just grab a pad of paper (or better yet, open a drawing app on my Kindle) and play for essentially free. Same thing with bubbles. $0.05 pays for all the soap and water a child could possibly need to blow bubbles to their heart's content for the all-of 10 minutes it will hold their attention, but for some reason he thinks it would be better better if the bubbles come in a bottle shaped like Elsa, and are poured into a Disney Princess or Cars bubble machine while the he waves an Ariel bubble wand over his head.

I'm also generally annoyed by the way the branding has spilled over into the selling of the movies. Our approach to movies is to watch them on Netflix whenever possible. Failing that, we'll wait for them to come down in price to the point that we can buy the digital copy for super cheap. Failing that, we'll buy the DVD used and use Vudu to get the digital copy. Disney's classic movies are not available on Netflix, their digital copies never come down in price, and they won't allow disc-to-digital. Screw that noise.

MayDay

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2015, 09:58:33 AM »
Yah, good point about the movies not being very available.  Although my library has them, I discovered.  Right after I bought Mulan at Costco,  but fortunately still in packaging so I returned it!

Then the kids didn't like the darn movie. 


elaine amj

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2015, 10:33:54 AM »
I can see the conflict between the over-the-top, excessive consumerism of Disney and the frugal, outdoor-orientated, minimalist culture of Mustachianism.

Our family loves the outdoors...tent camping, hiking, miles of wilderness. We're frugal (ok, we're cheapskates) and love the idea of saving towards FIRE. But man, Disney ties with tent camping as our family's favorite vacation choice :) We were really shocked to discover just how much we love our trips to Disney. But hey, at least we know what we like :)

pagoconcheques

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2015, 10:37:42 AM »
Disneyland / Disneyworld gave us the expression "exit through the gift shop" with all that implies.  I kind of get how an American family should take the kids there once, sort of a culturally-situated obligatory pilgrimage, cause 'Murica. (I confess we did it--they were not impressed). 

I like a lot of their movies. 

I never watch TV so I have no opinion about the Disney Channel. 
« Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 10:45:00 AM by pagoconcheques »

chemgeek

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2015, 10:39:39 AM »
I tend to separate Disney Movies from the Disney Industrial ComplexTM. Movies vary between and within studios - Brave, Frozen, Rapunzel, Princess and the Frog, Mulan... all pretty decent female leads (although the heteronormativity gets annoying after a while). On the other hand, Dreamworks didn't have a female lead of any sort, good or bad, until 2009's Monsters vs. Aliens. So I take movies on a film-by-film basis without really giving much attention to what studio they come from.

But the branding nonsense is unconscionable. My son is very much in the "Must own all the things my classmates do" age bracket, and while he knows the answer is going to be no, he still makes his case on a regular basis. What's ridiculous to me is the number of things that are the exact same as something we either already own, or could do for free. For instance, I could spend $19.99 on a Disney Pictionary game... or we could just grab a pad of paper (or better yet, open a drawing app on my Kindle) and play for essentially free. Same thing with bubbles. $0.05 pays for all the soap and water a child could possibly need to blow bubbles to their heart's content for the all-of 10 minutes it will hold their attention, but for some reason he thinks it would be better better if the bubbles come in a bottle shaped like Elsa, and are poured into a Disney Princess or Cars bubble machine while the he waves an Ariel bubble wand over his head.

I'm also generally annoyed by the way the branding has spilled over into the selling of the movies. Our approach to movies is to watch them on Netflix whenever possible. Failing that, we'll wait for them to come down in price to the point that we can buy the digital copy for super cheap. Failing that, we'll buy the DVD used and use Vudu to get the digital copy. Disney's classic movies are not available on Netflix, their digital copies never come down in price, and they won't allow disc-to-digital. Screw that noise.

Some of the older cartoons seem to be rotating on netflix. I put on Netflix as background noise when I quilt, and I watched Aristocats and Pocahontas last week. Thought I saw Mulan, Robin Hood and Hercules go by too. I have no idea how long those stay up though.

shedinator

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2015, 02:14:10 PM »
I tend to separate Disney Movies from the Disney Industrial ComplexTM. Movies vary between and within studios - Brave, Frozen, Rapunzel, Princess and the Frog, Mulan... all pretty decent female leads (although the heteronormativity gets annoying after a while). On the other hand, Dreamworks didn't have a female lead of any sort, good or bad, until 2009's Monsters vs. Aliens. So I take movies on a film-by-film basis without really giving much attention to what studio they come from.

But the branding nonsense is unconscionable. My son is very much in the "Must own all the things my classmates do" age bracket, and while he knows the answer is going to be no, he still makes his case on a regular basis. What's ridiculous to me is the number of things that are the exact same as something we either already own, or could do for free. For instance, I could spend $19.99 on a Disney Pictionary game... or we could just grab a pad of paper (or better yet, open a drawing app on my Kindle) and play for essentially free. Same thing with bubbles. $0.05 pays for all the soap and water a child could possibly need to blow bubbles to their heart's content for the all-of 10 minutes it will hold their attention, but for some reason he thinks it would be better better if the bubbles come in a bottle shaped like Elsa, and are poured into a Disney Princess or Cars bubble machine while the he waves an Ariel bubble wand over his head.

I'm also generally annoyed by the way the branding has spilled over into the selling of the movies. Our approach to movies is to watch them on Netflix whenever possible. Failing that, we'll wait for them to come down in price to the point that we can buy the digital copy for super cheap. Failing that, we'll buy the DVD used and use Vudu to get the digital copy. Disney's classic movies are not available on Netflix, their digital copies never come down in price, and they won't allow disc-to-digital. Screw that noise.

Some of the older cartoons seem to be rotating on netflix. I put on Netflix as background noise when I quilt, and I watched Aristocats and Pocahontas last week. Thought I saw Mulan, Robin Hood and Hercules go by too. I have no idea how long those stay up though.

Netflix and Disney signed a deal a couple years ago wherein they're slowly moving their content over. Definitely been moving from least- to most- desirable in their order, though. The first week my kids' section had a Disney line, it was 90% Tinkerbell movies. They'll get there, but at the moment they're still price gouging on the classics.

Pigeon

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2015, 03:24:28 PM »
I don't much care for the movies or the merchandise.  My kids watched the movies a bit, but no more or less than other kid flicks.  I think the Disney business practices suck.

But I do love WDW.  My dad was an engineer and he went to WDW on a business trip shortly after it opened.  Despite being a pretty mustachian guy, he was fascinated.  I remember him coming home and discussing the brilliance of the engineering behind the Hall of the Presidents, It's a Small World and the excellence of the crowd control.  The only two real vacations my parents ever took us on were to WDW, and yeah, they were magical.  They also took us camping and oh, man, I hated that.

I've taken my kids a couple of times.  They loved it, but given a choice (and they were this year), they'd rather we rented a house on a remote lake for a week this year, one with no cell phone service even.  But I would cheerfully head back to WDW every couple of years if it weren't so damned expensive and if we weren't restricted to school vacations (dh is a teacher).  I think the attractions are amazing and the level of attention to detail and theming are awesome.  Dh never went as a kid and he still jokes with his 90 year old mother by asking her when she's going to take him.

mm1970

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2015, 03:25:11 PM »
I'm not anti-Disney.  But I never went as a child and as an adult, I never understood the attraction. (Even though I went to the water park in Orlando in college and went to Disneyland at 26).

I have relatives who go annually and LOVE it.

We took my son for his 8th birthday last year.  Little guy was 1.5.
It was actually fun.

I totally understand why people like it, and also why it's expensive.  There was a ton to do, and see, and ride, and it was very clean.  My older son is a huge Star Wars fan, and the toddler pretty much just loved Tom Sawyer island.

But you know, I don't like it enough to keep going back.  I prefer national parks, nature, that sort of thing.  My kids seem to prefer theme parks.  But I pay AND I'm the one who plans everything.

1967mama

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2015, 03:26:05 PM »
I'm Disney neutral. Kids have watched some of the movies. Don't have any Disney toys, gear, etc. I'd take them to Disneyland but we are in debt, so no.

clifp

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2015, 03:58:12 PM »
I love Disney. I think Anti-Disney people should be locked up into a castle, surrounded by Disney merchandising, force to listen to the "It's a Small World" theme song 24x7, while cute little hungry mice, gnaw off the fingers and toes. 

I guess that isn't being very helpful, sorry.

southern granny

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2015, 04:10:08 PM »
Sorry, but I took my children to Disney world a few times when they were young, and I have made two trips with grandchildren and these were some of the most memorable vacations of our lives.  My 14 year old granddaughter still remembers getting kissed on the cheek by Ariel when she was four.  I hope that I can do it one more time before I get too old to keep up with them. 

elaine amj

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2015, 05:50:15 PM »
I love Disney. I think Anti-Disney people should be locked up into a castle, surrounded by Disney merchandising, force to listen to the "It's a Small World" theme song 24x7, while cute little hungry mice, gnaw off the fingers and toes. 

I guess that isn't being very helpful, sorry.

ROFL!!!

Fellow Disney fan

Jakejake

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2015, 07:23:00 PM »
There's a great documentary about Disney, called Mickey Mouse Monopoly. You can find all the clips from it on youtube, I don't know that it's all there in one piece, or easy to find in order. One of the most eye opening pieces for me was a discussion of what it teaches girls about relationships. They interview a very young girl after she watches Beauty and the Beast (where the beast, in case anyone has forgotten, locks the beauty up, kidnaps her, screams at her, withholds food, and is all out abusive to her - and she falls in love with him). The girl talks about the lessons in it that she learned - that if you are with a man and he is mean to you, you just have to keep being nice to him and love him and eventually he will turn out to be nice.  I seriously got chills watching that interview.

Longwaytogo

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2015, 07:30:20 PM »
My kids are grown now, but I don't remember the evil of Disney trying to get them in its clutches.
Either buy their products, or don't. Seems kind of silly to get all worked up about.

Ha ah, I agree. I would consider the Disney marketing machine "outside my circle of influence". Sure I can limit their exposure but I'm not going to change anything big picture.

I love Disney. I think Anti-Disney people should be locked up into a castle, surrounded by Disney merchandising, force to listen to the "It's a Small World" theme song 24x7, while cute little hungry mice, gnaw off the fingers and toes. 

I guess that isn't being very helpful, sorry.

Not helpful, But gave me a good chuckle!!

So I will admit that I also love Disney. Have a shit ton of merchandise, art, knick-nacks etc. spread throughout the house (most of it purchased pre-kid). I am one of the "idiots" who even owns one of their timeshares (though I don't really regret it and have no plans of re-selling it). As for movies, some I like better than others but overall I like them more than Dream works or most of the other kids stuff. The little bit of Disney Channel I've seen is pretty horrible but I think Disney Jr is more watchable than most of the Nick Jr/Sprout stuff.

I've been to WDW 30-35 times and as others have mentioned there are many very memorable trips for me as a kid and adult. When I was younger my extended family (20-35 people depending on year) would take a one week trip to the Fort Wilderness Campground in WDW (that's right you can combine camping and Disney all you haters). My late grandfather taught me to ride a two wheeled bike on one of those trips (as he did for my 13 younger cousins over ensuing trips). Good times!

I even remember an early "budgeting lesson" that my parents gave us on those trips. We each had $20 to spend but we could not spend it until the last day of the trip and then we would have our new toy to amuse us for the 16 hour driver home. My sister and I would strategize all week how to maximize our $20.

Also since we have been so many times we typically only do 1 day per week in a park and spend the other 5-6 days doing pool, tennis, biking, hiking, "regular" vacation stuff. In fact I'll be there for 9 days this Summer over the 4th of July with both my sisters and their families along with my parents.

Longwaytogo

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2015, 07:37:27 PM »
There's a great documentary about Disney, called Mickey Mouse Monopoly. You can find all the clips from it on youtube, I don't know that it's all there in one piece, or easy to find in order. One of the most eye opening pieces for me was a discussion of what it teaches girls about relationships. They interview a very young girl after she watches Beauty and the Beast (where the beast, in case anyone has forgotten, locks the beauty up, kidnaps her, screams at her, withholds food, and is all out abusive to her - and she falls in love with him). The girl talks about the lessons in it that she learned - that if you are with a man and he is mean to you, you just have to keep being nice to him and love him and eventually he will turn out to be nice.  I seriously got chills watching that interview.

Never seen the documentary but like any documentary I would take this with a grain of salt. You can skew any set of interviews for your documentary purpose. The one you describe is pretty chilling but there could have been 100 girls who got the "don't judge a book by it's cover, ugly duckling message" but they didn't make the documentary.

Both my sisters loved princesses as kids (especially Belle and Ariel) yet they also did girl scouts, played softball and were a bit Tom boyish. They also both participated in theater and saw Beauty and the Beast on Broadway on a high school field trip. Point is they are both strong independent women now despite their Disney brainwashing.

My girls are pretty into Frozen right now, they are 2 and 5. I'm not too worried.

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2015, 11:44:01 PM »
I find Disney way too commercial and violently dislike the "princess" epidemic. I need to decide if I'm willing to endure shunning by other parents and children in order to point out, "real princesses are sold into marriage for the political benefit of their families."

Is it too late to change my nickname to Mama Killjoy?  :)

greenshade

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2015, 08:15:33 AM »
I donít know if my perspective will change as my currently unborn child grows older, but I really donít have a problem with Disney.  I have probably seen most of the cartoon movies and I have been to DisneyLand in California (20+ years ago) and Magic Kingdom in Orlando (10+ years ago).  I will probably take my child to the Magic Kingdom when he is 5-10 and we are visiting my parents in Florida, but maybe I wonít, I donít have strong feelings about it.  My husband has never been to any of the parks.  Neither theme park was any worse than other theme parks I have been to, I remember having a good time.  We donít have cable, so I can honestly say that I am not familiar with any of the television shows on Disney Channel. 

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2015, 09:08:16 AM »
The princess shit really annoys me. "Princess Bubbles"? Really? They're just bubbles. But I know my daughter will see it because all of our nieces are in to it. Not that worked up about it, but I consider it an influence I might have to counter.

Megma

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2015, 10:00:28 AM »
- I think it sets a poor example for girls and their self image. And yes, I've heard the Rapunzel and "Brave" arguments. I'm still not buying it.
As a young guy, I'm clueless to this point. Anyone care to elaborate?

It doesn't look like anyone answered you so I will try to do so. Disney themes (esp "Classic" Disney) are often centered on a helpless female princess who is rescued by a man (Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, Little Mermaid, etc, etc). Female characters are over-sexualized and this is marketed to young and impressionable girls. It's similar to the criticism of Barbie in some ways.

Some of the modern movies have moved toward stronger female characters (Mulan, Brave, Frozen to some extent, I would argue Rapunzel is still "saved" by Finn, even though she whacks him with a frying pan) and more diverse themes. Personally, (spolier alert, though seems like no one on this forum will be interested in watching it!) I loved the end of Frozen when her "true love's kiss" was her sister, not the male companion through the movie. I also liked that it portrayed Ana's rash decision to marry Hans as the incredibly stupid and foolish choice it was and the she goes to save her sister herself.

HOWEVER, all of these changes are with a huge grain of salt. For example there was a big backlash when they unveiled Merida from Brave as a Disney princess and they had given her a very SEXY makeover (thinner, sexier dress, etc. all of which Merida in the movie hates basically). She is supposed to be around 15 I think in the movie and the author based the character on her 11 year old daughter. The author of the script was one of the people who publicly criticized the changes. Disney did back off a little in response to the negative comments but you can see how this is not the message most people would want their young daughters to be getting all the time.

Brave backlash:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/08/merida-brave-makeover_n_3238223.html

Disney response (basically, they did not say anything publicly and just changed her image back):
http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/16/4336232/disney-sexualized-brave-princess-merida-reversal


In case you cannot tell, I'm not exactly a Disney hater. I do like the movies and the songs from Frozen are amazing, and fun fact "Let it Go" was written by the same husband/wife team as who wrote music for Book of Mormon.

However I would NEVER spend thousands of dollars to go to the theme park or buy 99% of the crap they sell. But I wouldn't buy at least 85% of the crap in the average store either.

shedinator

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2015, 10:25:17 AM »
fun fact "Let it Go" was written by the same husband/wife team as who wrote music for Book of Mormon.
And the academy award they won for that gave them their EGOT :)

eyePod

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2015, 10:44:28 AM »
Yeah and violent video games cause kids to become violent!

Malarkey!

We are not anti-Disney. I've been about 4-5 times in my life and have had a blast each time. My daughter (under 3) really likes the movies. We don't let her watch them during the week though. We

We get to sing along and dance and play with her dolls. She picked out her own Easter dress that looked like one of Elsa's.

My wife loved Disney as a kid, and still does. She's just about to get her PhD and has her JD. I have a masters in engineering. We are debt free except the mortgage.

I'm not sure why people get so upset about a lot of these things.

Now, when we go to Disney, we go on the cheap. We also don't go every year. I had a boss who goes 3 times a year and is in severe debt. "Will work till he dies." THAT I have a problem with, but I'd say the same thing if he was doing super educational world trips when he was in the same financial situation.

Like all things in life, the more I experience, the more I realize that moderation is the key. If I absolutely hate something, I'm most likely being very narrow-minded and forgetting someone else's point of view.

RFAAOATB

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2015, 10:47:41 AM »
I find Disney way too commercial and violently dislike the "princess" epidemic. I need to decide if I'm willing to endure shunning by other parents and children in order to point out, "real princesses are sold into marriage for the political benefit of their families."

Is it too late to change my nickname to Mama Killjoy?  :)

Just talk about how awesome real princesses are.  Best example that comes to mind is Princess Elizabeth who served as a mechanic and driver during the war.  And that princess grew up to be Queen Elizabeth.

eyePod

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2015, 11:46:03 AM »
- I think it sets a poor example for girls and their self image. And yes, I've heard the Rapunzel and "Brave" arguments. I'm still not buying it.
As a young guy, I'm clueless to this point. Anyone care to elaborate?

I find it amazing that people are able to blame others for how they feel about themselves. This is no different than anyone who says that violent video games create violent people.

merula

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2015, 12:04:22 PM »
I'm a Disney fan, and while I agree that some of the messages present in the movies are not appropriate for children, I'm far more concerned about pervasive racism than about the "princess" mentality. Mulan, I think, is the worst for this.

That said, I think that kids are far more influenced by their parents and peers than by any amount of TV or movie watching. I loved princess movies growing up, the really helpless ones like Cinderella, Ariel and Belle. But I never thought that I needed a man to save me, because that wasn't how I was raised. No amount of watching Mulan, Pocahontas or Song of the South is going to make a kid racist if they never encounter racism in real life.

Now my son absolutely adores princesses. And the Tinkerbell movies. Which, if any parent hasn't seen, I would recommend. Tinkerbell is a brilliant engineer, a hard worker, and there is essentially no romance or reference to her looks.

Geostache

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2015, 12:05:03 PM »
- I think it sets a poor example for girls and their self image. And yes, I've heard the Rapunzel and "Brave" arguments. I'm still not buying it.
As a young guy, I'm clueless to this point. Anyone care to elaborate?

I find it amazing that people are able to blame others for how they feel about themselves. This is no different than anyone who says that violent video games create violent people.

I'll just leave this here.

http://demoiselle2femme.org/wp-content/uploads/Body-Image-and-Self-Esteem-Among-Girls.pdf

Parenting can definitely counter balance some of the effects, but to dismiss the role that media (taken here to mean all consumed digital media, not just journalism) play in the self-esteem of girls is at worst dangerous, and at best uninformed.

FWIW, I don't believe that violent games create violent people. But it has also been documented that exposure to violence in person and in the media desensitizes people to violence.

eyePod

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2015, 12:30:21 PM »
- I think it sets a poor example for girls and their self image. And yes, I've heard the Rapunzel and "Brave" arguments. I'm still not buying it.
As a young guy, I'm clueless to this point. Anyone care to elaborate?

I find it amazing that people are able to blame others for how they feel about themselves. This is no different than anyone who says that violent video games create violent people.

I'll just leave this here.

http://demoiselle2femme.org/wp-content/uploads/Body-Image-and-Self-Esteem-Among-Girls.pdf

Parenting can definitely counter balance some of the effects, but to dismiss the role that media (taken here to mean all consumed digital media, not just journalism) play in the self-esteem of girls is at worst dangerous, and at best uninformed.

FWIW, I don't believe that violent games create violent people. But it has also been documented that exposure to violence in person and in the media desensitizes people to violence.

So how does this work with all the little boys playing video games with big muscular macho army men? I just don't see the difference. You're minimizing the ability of anyone to stand up for themselves.

I don't disagree getting smashed in the face with marketing non-stop is an issue, but I don't think Disney is as bad as other crap. At least they have good fun content. It's not like a woman's magazine models like the journal article you linked to. It's a damned cartoon! Of course it isn't the real world! The damn lady has MAGIC. I'm sure the girls (and boys, and MYSELF) really wish that we had cool frozen magic too.

Geostache

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2015, 12:53:51 PM »
Regarding the female body issue portrayal, I'm merely pointing out that Disney is not immune from the same issues that plague American media in general.

It does seem that Disney is quite polarizing (with an n=47-ish in this post?). Either you really don't like it for what it is, or you really do. My main concern is that it seems like a lot of people who are pro-Disney are just as vehemently insistent that I MUST go to WDW or have my kids watch their movies. I respect those who like and appreciate Disney for what it is. I only ask to get that same respect in return for my feelings on the subject. And generally speaking, I don't.

TonyPlush

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2015, 01:08:00 PM »
- I think it sets a poor example for girls and their self image. And yes, I've heard the Rapunzel and "Brave" arguments. I'm still not buying it.
As a young guy, I'm clueless to this point. Anyone care to elaborate?

It doesn't look like anyone answered you so I will try to do so. Disney themes (esp "Classic" Disney) are often centered on a helpless female princess who is rescued by a man (Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, Little Mermaid, etc, etc). Female characters are over-sexualized and this is marketed to young and impressionable girls. It's similar to the criticism of Barbie in some ways.

Some of the modern movies have moved toward stronger female characters (Mulan, Brave, Frozen to some extent, I would argue Rapunzel is still "saved" by Finn, even though she whacks him with a frying pan) and more diverse themes. Personally, (spolier alert, though seems like no one on this forum will be interested in watching it!) I loved the end of Frozen when her "true love's kiss" was her sister, not the male companion through the movie. I also liked that it portrayed Ana's rash decision to marry Hans as the incredibly stupid and foolish choice it was and the she goes to save her sister herself.

HOWEVER, all of these changes are with a huge grain of salt. For example there was a big backlash when they unveiled Merida from Brave as a Disney princess and they had given her a very SEXY makeover (thinner, sexier dress, etc. all of which Merida in the movie hates basically). She is supposed to be around 15 I think in the movie and the author based the character on her 11 year old daughter. The author of the script was one of the people who publicly criticized the changes. Disney did back off a little in response to the negative comments but you can see how this is not the message most people would want their young daughters to be getting all the time.

Brave backlash:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/08/merida-brave-makeover_n_3238223.html

Disney response (basically, they did not say anything publicly and just changed her image back):
http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/16/4336232/disney-sexualized-brave-princess-merida-reversal


In case you cannot tell, I'm not exactly a Disney hater. I do like the movies and the songs from Frozen are amazing, and fun fact "Let it Go" was written by the same husband/wife team as who wrote music for Book of Mormon.

However I would NEVER spend thousands of dollars to go to the theme park or buy 99% of the crap they sell. But I wouldn't buy at least 85% of the crap in the average store either.
Thanks for the response.

It does kind of sound like the violent video game argument, but I'm not a parent and have no sisters, so I'm probably uninformed on this topic.

I'd say any complaints I have about Disney are no different than my complaints about our consumer culture as a whole. People taking vacations they can't afford, buying name brand items, and being brainwashed by mindless entertainment is ridiculous, whether it's Disney or anything else on TV.

eyePod

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Re: How Many of you are Anti-Disney?
« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2015, 01:21:51 PM »
Regarding the female body issue portrayal, I'm merely pointing out that Disney is not immune from the same issues that plague American media in general.

It does seem that Disney is quite polarizing (with an n=47-ish in this post?). Either you really don't like it for what it is, or you really do. My main concern is that it seems like a lot of people who are pro-Disney are just as vehemently insistent that I MUST go to WDW or have my kids watch their movies. I respect those who like and appreciate Disney for what it is. I only ask to get that same respect in return for my feelings on the subject. And generally speaking, I don't.

I really enjoy Disney but am aware of negative effects that it could possibly have (which I think are overstated by a lot of people). I don't feel like you're asking for respect. I feel like you're asking me to back you up when I think your claims are over the top.

You are making a decision to remove yourself and family from the Disney market as a consumer. Perfectly fine. You're trying to get everyone else on board though. Very similar to a vegan person trying to make everyone else vegan. I think there's a lot more important things in life than to worry about Disney.

Sort of on topic, is there any person (really) that doesn't have self esteem issues with their body? Seriously, what % of the world are happy with how they look, or even just comfortable. Can't all be Disney's fault. Government screwing up the nation with the food pyramid and the corn subsidies seems to be a much bigger issue in my mind.