Holding Firm on the Holidays After Having a Kid

[shelivesthedream]

Hopefully it's just this year where I have to stand my ground and then that's the new normal.

This year will be the worst year by some way. My prediction is you will still get a little pushback next year, but just not remotely in the same league. This is the year they will test you to see if you are serious.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

Hopefully it's just this year where I have to stand my ground and then that's the new normal.

This year will be the worst year by some way. My prediction is you will still get a little pushback next year, but just not remotely in the same league. This is the year they will test you to see if you are serious.

Yep, that's actually what I just told my mom.

I called her again and tried to has things out.  Her biggest concern, by far, is about being uncomfortable around my dad and his wife; I get this, but they've been divorced for almost 15 years now.  Come on folks. Being uncomfortable will wear off with time. Eventually they will be at sporting events and stuff. 

My mom is really, really, really disappointed. I got the "I'll just drop the gifts off and you guys can do whatever" speech. We will see how this plays out, especially since I expect having to have this same exact conversation with my dad here soon.

[kanga1622]

You have to figure out what works best for your little immediate family and hold firm.

My DH HATES Thanksgiving. So everyone knows that we aren't coming to any Thanksgiving celebration. We do homemade pizza and spend time with our little family. That is enough for us.

When we had our first child, I told DH that I REFUSED to travel on Christmas Day again. I remember growing up that the day was a total pain as we went from quickly unwrapping at home to church to grandparents' for lunch to other grandparents' for supper. I want my kids to remember it as a fun day where they got to enjoy their presents, listen to music, watch movies, and just have fun. MIL often comes over mid-morning on Christmas with gifts and I am okay with that. But she realizes that lunch is often crockpot soup, sandwiches, or spaghetti. Whatever my family has decided makes the day a celebration.

MIL and FIL are divorced but my parents are passed so that only leaves 2 groups to appease for holidays. We end up hosting every year a celebration for MIL and BIL on a day near Christmas. Then often hosting FIL and BIL again a few days or a week later. As I HATE hosting celebrations, this is a royal pain. But it means I don't have to travel much for holidays so it does at least have that benefit.

[mm1970]

If you live so close together it seems like it would be fairly easy to just change the date.  25th at your own house, pick another day for spouse's family, another day for your family, etc as needed. 

This is essentially what we've been trying, and it's absolutely and horrifically terrible.

My wife and I work full time; my two brothers (and older brother's wife) work full time; my mom works full time; my dad and his wife work full time;  my dad's wife's daughter works full time out of town.

Just trying to schedule everything *before* we had a kid transcended my brain into the deepest depths of hell.  It was incredibly difficult.  For instance, Christmas turns into a relaxing couple days off to arguing about scheduling and boomeranging from one place to the next.  It's terrible, and in no way is it possible to just say, "You're the 25th, you're the 26th, you're the 27th."  That just isn't possible when everyone works, and worse yet, you now have absolutely no time to do anything on your own, which sucks in its own right.

***

I can't possibly respond to all the posts, but thanks everyone for your advice.  I'm going with the advice to just be blunt and non-conditional.  The advice of telling them "this is what we want" is good to remove any negotiating.

Seems like a lot of people have this issue, so let the discussion continue...

My big sister was pregnant and due in mid-December way long ago. We moved Christmas to Thanksgiving.  We celebrated that way for years.  I mean, I had a passel of siblings and in-laws and nieces and nephews.  We had 18 people every year.

My Stepfather is one of 6.  His family has a December family party every year.  Each family takes turns hosting.  But now that my mom is long gone, and he has another sister who is not local, they team up.  And they got tired of finding a date, so they do it in mid-November when it is there turn.  Oh, the complaints from his other sisters!  But you know what?  Everyone loved it.  Everyone made it! (Except for the one in Europe).  There are 6 children in his family.  Every one of them except one has 2-3 kids.  They are all married now, and they all have 2-3 kids.  So having to work around work schedules for Generation 1, work schedules AND in law schedules for Generation 2, and school schedules for Generation 3 was a big fat mess.

We do what we want, but we are on the opposite coast, so it's easy. 

[Villanelle]

Hopefully it's just this year where I have to stand my ground and then that's the new normal.

This year will be the worst year by some way. My prediction is you will still get a little pushback next year, but just not remotely in the same league. This is the year they will test you to see if you are serious.

Yep, that's actually what I just told my mom.

I called her again and tried to has things out.  Her biggest concern, by far, is about being uncomfortable around my dad and his wife; I get this, but they've been divorced for almost 15 years now.  Come on folks. Being uncomfortable will wear off with time. Eventually they will be at sporting events and stuff. 

My mom is really, really, really disappointed. I got the "I'll just drop the gifts off and you guys can do whatever" speech. We will see how this plays out, especially since I expect having to have this same exact conversation with my dad here soon.

Just as you are perfectly entitled to make this decision, she's entitled to react however she chooses.  Don't try to control that.  If she wants to behave like a petulant child, so be it.  Do NOT get dragged in to that.  She'l just drop the gifts off whenever?  "I'm sure the kids would love to spend time with you, and I would as well, but if that's what works best, I understand."  Don't let her guilt you into softening your stance.  Don't react like you are the bad guy and you've wronged her in some way. 

It's not unreasonable for her to not want to be around her Ex.  She has to--and gets to--decide whether that's more important than a family holiday.  And you need to give that decision the same respect you want her to give yours.  You can express disappointment, but not in a way that attempts to manipulate or guilt her.  She's decided not to come?  Okay.  You are sorry to hear that, and she will be missed, and please let you know if she changes her mind because everyone would love to see her.  But if she feels that decision is best for her, you accept and understand and hope you can get together sometime soon.   

[ThreeCarbsNoGrains]

Reading this thread has been SO helpful for me.  It’s nice to know we aren’t the only ones trying to figure out how to manage expectations and logistics.

We actually started our marriage attending literally every holiday function which included THREE houses on Thanksgiving Day (total travels of 150+ miles), two on Christmas Eve (another 150 miles), two on Christmas Day (another 150 miles).  (Sometimes with an extra event on 12/23!) I was also usually cooking a side/dessert to bring to each of these events where there was already too much food.  This was absolutely miserable but we (I) had terrible FOMO and wanted everyone to be happy with us.  SPOILER ALERT: everyone was not happy with us!  We didn’t arrive early enough, we didn’t stay late enough, we weren’t hungry enough when we arrived!  I distinctly remember getting on the interstate to drive another 60 miles and getting a phone call from a family member asking what was taking too long (even though we were due to arrive at exactly the agreed upon mealtime).  We did this insanity for a few years and then decided since we couldn’t please everyone else we should please ourselves lol. (I should note not all family members were unreasonable and those are the family members we prioritize at holidays now).  Even though those years were BANANAS, I don’t regret it because anytime I feel guilty now I remember when we did everything asked of us and people still weren’t happy.  We don’t have a set plan for each year; last year we traveled at Thanksgiving and this year we are going to one house for Thanksgiving because I will be very pregnant.

Folks above made some good points including that it’s okay to prioritize the events you enjoy most.  I used to worry about what was “fair” but I don’t really know what that even means anymore.  With our first baby on the way we don’t have the actual logistics ironed out but we do have our priorities clear.  The most important factor in my child making happy memories at holidays is that his/her parents NOT be in a bad mood or stressed out.  If we are miserable, we will make our child miserable (not to mention the child does not want to spend all day in the car).  We will figure out the rest and we will probably do it on a case by case basis.

[Psychstache]

This thread makes me so happy to be Jewish.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

It's not unreasonable for her to not want to be around her Ex.  She has to--and gets to--decide whether that's more important than a family holiday.  And you need to give that decision the same respect you want her to give yours.  You can express disappointment, but not in a way that attempts to manipulate or guilt her.  She's decided not to come?  Okay.  You are sorry to hear that, and she will be missed, and please let you know if she changes her mind because everyone would love to see her.  But if she feels that decision is best for her, you accept and understand and hope you can get together sometime soon.   

The bolded is really hard for me to swallow.  My parents have been divorced and have been dictating (and fighting) over the holidays for almost 15 years now.  We have done it their way for almost half my life.  It cannot go on in perpetuity; they have to know that.

They get along well at other events where they have no choice but to attend together (baptisms, birthday parties, etc.).  My mom and dad are very, very easy to get along with.  I see no reason why they can't put their differences aside and be civil 3 or 4 days a year.

My mom and I exchanged some long emails about it, and I stated something like, "We cannot continue to be permanently inconvenienced around the holidays, and impose the divorced family dynamic on a second generation of kids, because you and dad cannot be together to see your grandkids."  This was harsh, and I somewhat regret it, but it's the most direct way of how I perceive the equities here.

***

The reason this irks me so much is that we live in a relatively depressed economic area (NE Ohio).  The statistical odds of all three kids staying within 15 miles of home is astronomical.  I had about 20-25 good high school friends and maybe 3 or 4 of them still live around here.  And of them, all of their siblings live out of town.

My parents are so lucky to have all three of us home.  And not just all three of us, but their grandkids as well.  I can't tell you how many of my friends' parents have to travel cross-country just to spend either Thanksgiving or Christmas with their kids. 

Here we are, all within about a half-hour of each other, and my parents turn every holiday season into this pissing contest.  It's been going on for more than a decade and I'm done with it.

[Villanelle]

It's not unreasonable for her to not want to be around her Ex.  She has to--and gets to--decide whether that's more important than a family holiday.  And you need to give that decision the same respect you want her to give yours.  You can express disappointment, but not in a way that attempts to manipulate or guilt her.  She's decided not to come?  Okay.  You are sorry to hear that, and she will be missed, and please let you know if she changes her mind because everyone would love to see her.  But if she feels that decision is best for her, you accept and understand and hope you can get together sometime soon.   

The bolded is really hard for me to swallow.  My parents have been divorced and have been dictating (and fighting) over the holidays for almost 15 years now.  We have done it their way for almost half my life.  It cannot go on in perpetuity; they have to know that.

They get along well at other events where they have no choice but to attend together (baptisms, birthday parties, etc.).  My mom and dad are very, very easy to get along with.  I see no reason why they can't put their differences aside and be civil 3 or 4 days a year.

My mom and I exchanged some long emails about it, and I stated something like, "We cannot continue to be permanently inconvenienced around the holidays, and impose the divorced family dynamic on a second generation of kids, because you and dad cannot be together to see your grandkids."  This was harsh, and I somewhat regret it, but it's the most direct way of how I perceive the equities here.

***

The reason this irks me so much is that we live in a relatively depressed economic area (NE Ohio).  The statistical odds of all three kids staying within 15 miles of home is astronomical.  I had about 20-25 good high school friends and maybe 3 or 4 of them still live around here.  And of them, all of their siblings live out of town.

My parents are so lucky to have all three of us home.  And not just all three of us, but their grandkids as well.  I can't tell you how many of my friends' parents have to travel cross-country just to spend either Thanksgiving or Christmas with their kids. 

Here we are, all within about a half-hour of each other, and my parents turn every holiday season into this pissing contest.  It's been going on for more than a decade and I'm done with it.

I do understand.  I'm sorry she's creating this situation.  But just as you hate her choice and it's effect on you, she probably hates your choice and it's effect on her.  If you don't respect (at least in your words, if not your heart) her decision, then why should she respect yours?  You are all making the choices that work best for your lives.  And that should be the focus.  The effects those choices have on other people may be unfortunate, unpleasant, or regrettable, but none of you are doing anything wrong by setting a reasonable boundary.  (And yes, I don't want to spend Christmas with my Ex-husband is reasonable.) 

It's fantastic that you've found the strength to be done with it.  That doesn't mean you openly question her choice, and the strength she's found to set her boundary (even if you think it's actually born of weakness.)  Embrace your strength and conviction, and don't get bogged down with her in questioning hers.  You have laid out your limits, she lays out hers, and you each move forward with whatever that means Christmas looks like for each of you. 

If you go forward upset that she can't accept that you have a right to make unpopular choices about your day, while simultaneously being upset and unable to accept that she has a right to make an unpopular choice about her day, you not only weaken your own position, but also are being kind of unfair to your mom.

I think her choices and then your bending to the tremendous annual pressure to fall in line has created a lot of resentment.  Letting go of that and starting with a clean slate, where everyone feels free to set and state boundaries and then live with them, should be the goal.  I know that can be tough when there are tough emotional issues and pasts at play, but it's something to work towards. 

[TVRodriguez]

It's not unreasonable for her to not want to be around her Ex.  She has to--and gets to--decide whether that's more important than a family holiday.  And you need to give that decision the same respect you want her to give yours.  You can express disappointment, but not in a way that attempts to manipulate or guilt her.  She's decided not to come?  Okay.  You are sorry to hear that, and she will be missed, and please let you know if she changes her mind because everyone would love to see her.  But if she feels that decision is best for her, you accept and understand and hope you can get together sometime soon.   

The bolded is really hard for me to swallow.  My parents have been divorced and have been dictating (and fighting) over the holidays for almost 15 years now.  We have done it their way for almost half my life.  It cannot go on in perpetuity; they have to know that.

They get along well at other events where they have no choice but to attend together (baptisms, birthday parties, etc.).  My mom and dad are very, very easy to get along with.  I see no reason why they can't put their differences aside and be civil 3 or 4 days a year.

My mom and I exchanged some long emails about it, and I stated something like, "We cannot continue to be permanently inconvenienced around the holidays, and impose the divorced family dynamic on a second generation of kids, because you and dad cannot be together to see your grandkids."  This was harsh, and I somewhat regret it, but it's the most direct way of how I perceive the equities here.

***

The reason this irks me so much is that we live in a relatively depressed economic area (NE Ohio).  The statistical odds of all three kids staying within 15 miles of home is astronomical.  I had about 20-25 good high school friends and maybe 3 or 4 of them still live around here.  And of them, all of their siblings live out of town.

My parents are so lucky to have all three of us home.  And not just all three of us, but their grandkids as well.  I can't tell you how many of my friends' parents have to travel cross-country just to spend either Thanksgiving or Christmas with their kids. 

Here we are, all within about a half-hour of each other, and my parents turn every holiday season into this pissing contest.  It's been going on for more than a decade and I'm done with it.

I do understand.  I'm sorry she's creating this situation.  But just as you hate her choice and it's effect on you, she probably hates your choice and it's effect on her.  If you don't respect (at least in your words, if not your heart) her decision, then why should she respect yours?  You are all making the choices that work best for your lives.  And that should be the focus.  The effects those choices have on other people may be unfortunate, unpleasant, or regrettable, but none of you are doing anything wrong by setting a reasonable boundary.  (And yes, I don't want to spend Christmas with my Ex-husband is reasonable.) 

It's fantastic that you've found the strength to be done with it.  That doesn't mean you openly question her choice, and the strength she's found to set her boundary (even if you think it's actually born of weakness.)  Embrace your strength and conviction, and don't get bogged down with her in questioning hers.  You have laid out your limits, she lays out hers, and you each move forward with whatever that means Christmas looks like for each of you. 

If you go forward upset that she can't accept that you have a right to make unpopular choices about your day, while simultaneously being upset and unable to accept that she has a right to make an unpopular choice about her day, you not only weaken your own position, but also are being kind of unfair to your mom.

I think her choices and then your bending to the tremendous annual pressure to fall in line has created a lot of resentment.  Letting go of that and starting with a clean slate, where everyone feels free to set and state boundaries and then live with them, should be the goal.  I know that can be tough when there are tough emotional issues and pasts at play, but it's something to work towards.

Villanelle is 100% on point here. 

My brother and his wife and their three kids live in the same town we grew up in.  He's the only one of us kids who stayed in town (well, the only one who has kids).  For a while, he and his wife did the trek from our family to her family and some time on their own, and it wore them down. 

I distinctly remember the one Christmas where my SIL stood at the bottom of the stairs and shouted up at my mom, who was (uncharacteristically) sulking in her room because they were leaving to go see SIL's family, "I HAVE FAMILY, TOO, YOU KNOW!!"  Guess what?  My mom got over it, and we all just accepted that brother and SIL would be there on later holidays when it suited them.

Lo these many years later, my mom is dead and gone, her mom is dead and gone, she no longer has contact with her dad, and brother and SIL spend ALL holidays with my dad, at either his house or theirs.

Here's hoping that your last emails to your mom have a similar effect as my SIL's shout up the stairs, but the reason it worked was that SIL and bro stuck to their plan and didn't cave.

[formerlydivorcedmom]

When I was a kid, my grandparents did a huge Christmas Eve dinner.  My grandmother also served a more low-key Christmas Day lunch.  My mom decided when I was 8 that she wanted Christmas Day, so we just stopped going to my grandmother's for lunch.    Every male in my family worked shift work, so everyone was used to celebrating with whoever could make it.

---
Thanks to a rash of divorces, my ex and I had to navigate 5 different holiday gatherings.  Baby's first Christmas I had a spreadsheet with time allocated in 30-minute increments from 12/23 - 12/25.  Baby napped in the car driving from one house to the other.  It was a nightmare.

The next 4 years we attended Christmas Eve (my grandparents and one set of his grandparents) and then went home so our kid could wake up in her own house.  We hosted a Christmas Day dinner and invited everyone.  We'd get my ex's entire maternal side, both my parents and my sister and her family - all driving 2 hours to see us.

My former FIL would not attend anything his ex was at.  We usually saw him a week later. 

I am glad we compromised.  The two sets of grandparents we visited are gone now, and I'm glad we made those last few memories.

--
Now, my ex and I rotate whether we get Christmas Eve or Christmas Day.  On my day, I host a big meal and invite all relatives, - and they are encouraged to invite anyone.  So we have my mom and sister, my sister's ex-husband, H's parents, H's brother, brother's girlfriend, and half of brother's girlfriend's family.  It is amazingly awesome, to the point that one year I announced we weren't doing Thanksgiving, and my mom offered to host the entire group at her house, even though she wasn't related to most of them. 

My best friends alternate whether they host at their house or spend time with one of their families.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

It's not unreasonable for her to not want to be around her Ex.  She has to--and gets to--decide whether that's more important than a family holiday.  And you need to give that decision the same respect you want her to give yours.  You can express disappointment, but not in a way that attempts to manipulate or guilt her.  She's decided not to come?  Okay.  You are sorry to hear that, and she will be missed, and please let you know if she changes her mind because everyone would love to see her.  But if she feels that decision is best for her, you accept and understand and hope you can get together sometime soon.   

The bolded is really hard for me to swallow.  My parents have been divorced and have been dictating (and fighting) over the holidays for almost 15 years now.  We have done it their way for almost half my life.  It cannot go on in perpetuity; they have to know that.

They get along well at other events where they have no choice but to attend together (baptisms, birthday parties, etc.).  My mom and dad are very, very easy to get along with.  I see no reason why they can't put their differences aside and be civil 3 or 4 days a year.

My mom and I exchanged some long emails about it, and I stated something like, "We cannot continue to be permanently inconvenienced around the holidays, and impose the divorced family dynamic on a second generation of kids, because you and dad cannot be together to see your grandkids."  This was harsh, and I somewhat regret it, but it's the most direct way of how I perceive the equities here.

***

The reason this irks me so much is that we live in a relatively depressed economic area (NE Ohio).  The statistical odds of all three kids staying within 15 miles of home is astronomical.  I had about 20-25 good high school friends and maybe 3 or 4 of them still live around here.  And of them, all of their siblings live out of town.

My parents are so lucky to have all three of us home.  And not just all three of us, but their grandkids as well.  I can't tell you how many of my friends' parents have to travel cross-country just to spend either Thanksgiving or Christmas with their kids. 

Here we are, all within about a half-hour of each other, and my parents turn every holiday season into this pissing contest.  It's been going on for more than a decade and I'm done with it.

I do understand.  I'm sorry she's creating this situation.  But just as you hate her choice and it's effect on you, she probably hates your choice and it's effect on her.  If you don't respect (at least in your words, if not your heart) her decision, then why should she respect yours?  You are all making the choices that work best for your lives.  And that should be the focus.  The effects those choices have on other people may be unfortunate, unpleasant, or regrettable, but none of you are doing anything wrong by setting a reasonable boundary.  (And yes, I don't want to spend Christmas with my Ex-husband is reasonable.) 

It's fantastic that you've found the strength to be done with it.  That doesn't mean you openly question her choice, and the strength she's found to set her boundary (even if you think it's actually born of weakness.)  Embrace your strength and conviction, and don't get bogged down with her in questioning hers.  You have laid out your limits, she lays out hers, and you each move forward with whatever that means Christmas looks like for each of you. 

If you go forward upset that she can't accept that you have a right to make unpopular choices about your day, while simultaneously being upset and unable to accept that she has a right to make an unpopular choice about her day, you not only weaken your own position, but also are being kind of unfair to your mom.

I think her choices and then your bending to the tremendous annual pressure to fall in line has created a lot of resentment.  Letting go of that and starting with a clean slate, where everyone feels free to set and state boundaries and then live with them, should be the goal.  I know that can be tough when there are tough emotional issues and pasts at play, but it's something to work towards.

Villanelle is 100% on point here. 

My brother and his wife and their three kids live in the same town we grew up in.  He's the only one of us kids who stayed in town (well, the only one who has kids).  For a while, he and his wife did the trek from our family to her family and some time on their own, and it wore them down. 

I distinctly remember the one Christmas where my SIL stood at the bottom of the stairs and shouted up at my mom, who was (uncharacteristically) sulking in her room because they were leaving to go see SIL's family, "I HAVE FAMILY, TOO, YOU KNOW!!"  Guess what?  My mom got over it, and we all just accepted that brother and SIL would be there on later holidays when it suited them.

Lo these many years later, my mom is dead and gone, her mom is dead and gone, she no longer has contact with her dad, and brother and SIL spend ALL holidays with my dad, at either his house or theirs.

Here's hoping that your last emails to your mom have a similar effect as my SIL's shout up the stairs, but the reason it worked was that SIL and bro stuck to their plan and didn't cave.

I certainly wasn't clear -- I know Villanelle was right.  I wrote in an email to my mom: "This may be a case of immovable force meets an immovable object.  We are not willing to do this holiday schlepping anymore, as it makes us uncomfortable and tiresome; and you are not willing to eat with [my dad and his wife], as that makes you uncomfortable. We may just have to respect each other's decisions."

It's just hard for me because my mom does not have anyone.  Her parents are deceased; her brother passed away years ago; she is still single.  This has always been the 2,000 pound gorilla of leverage that my mom has used to make us create separate time, but we just cannot do it anymore.

[CrustyBadger]

Smart grandparents with local grandchildren get modern cribs and child care equipment in their house and baby proof the entire first floor and have baby and toddler friendly food and extra diapers “just in case” so traveling to visit is easy not schlepping!

They get to see the grandkids more that way.

If your mom has infant and two year old grandkids, I’d suggest she do that!

Eating an extra turkey a week before would be a compromise I could accept.

[Captain FIRE]

Smart grandparents with local grandchildren get modern cribs and child care equipment in their house and baby proof the entire first floor and have baby and toddler friendly food and extra diapers “just in case” so traveling to visit is easy not schlepping!

They get to see the grandkids more that way.

If your mom has infant and two year old grandkids, I’d suggest she do that!

Eating an extra turkey a week before would be a compromise I could accept.

Can I just say a +1 for the modern crib?   My mom constantly offered to put my son in the 80 year old crib my great uncle used.  (She finally accepted the argument that he was used to the pack and play. )  The ancient high chair with a tiny string between the legs keeping the kid from sliding out was another matter.  (I secretly cheered the kid on when he broke it twice after he was older and we stopped hauling up ours.) 

And baby proofing rooms the grandkid will be in...ahhh, such bliss if that happened!  Instead I am trying to follow the kid around to remove things like safety hazards and sentimental breakables.  And trying to explain that if you set out a toddler size table out for him with crayons and he colors off the paper onto the tablecloth, or he wants to look at other things in the room you put him in...that's pretty much to be expected, didn't you have 3 kids?

Yes it is nice that you feed us (although it'd be awesome if you got milk for him so we don't have to bring it up and keep it cold on the drive, just like how you pick up coconut milk when his lactose-intolerant uncle visits), but it's not a relaxing visit.  I'm exhausted because of the long drive, chasing him, and less sleep (because the curtains are very mediocre so the light wakes him and he won't go back to sleep when he sees us as we share a room there).  Maybe you could offer to watch the kid for an hour and send my husband and I out for a walk to give us a break?  Here's a hint: he asks when his other grandma is going to visit because she actually plays with him.  And yet my mom is convinced her house is great for visiting because she saved our old toys and books so we don't have to bring any up!  So thanks for the invite mom, I know we haven't visited as much as prekids, but we've still visited more than you guys - who are retired with no jobs/young kids - have come down to us.  We'll see you again when toddler and fetus are self-sufficient, say 6+?  Ok, rant over.

[shelivesthedream]

I've stopped expecting my parents to offer things that are genuinely helpful and started just announcing "I thought you could take him out to the park when you come round ad I have some stuff I want to do" or "I need to make some phone calls this afternoon, can I use your spare bedroom while you watch him downstairs?" Then I just hide and chill. And they're fine with it, but are unwilling/unable to take the initiative for some reason.

[gaja]

We do a different version of alternating years. I do not want my parents to be alone for Christmas, but I don’t feel any obligation or need to see my siblings at that time of year. The parents claim they would like to host us all, but they honestly seem happier when there are fewer of us. So my sister and I visit every other year. We have tried to get our brother on board with the system, but SIL makes the plans for them. We have offered to host or visit MIL and/or FIL on the “free” Christmases, but MIL prefers to visit single SIL or other family, and FIL doesn’t care much about family.

This Christmas is my sister’s duty. My mother still asks us repeatedly to come, but since I know she won’t be alone, it is relatively easy to decline.

Pregnancy and babies make everything different. I live by the rule that a woman in the last trimester, and the first three months of a baby’s life, only should focus on what is best for herself, and should expect to have her every need catered to. After that, I might expect her to partly acknowledge there are other people in the world. But before the child is 3, adults always should be adapting to them, not visa versa.

[EricEng]

Rotation was our approach both before and after kids.  Had no drama from the family on this.  We found traveling to one location was manageable, but if not we would have just hosted more at home.

Year: 1
Thanksgiving: Parents 1
Christmas: Parents 2

Year: 2
Thanksgiving: Home (Parents 1 and/or 2 come to us)
Christmas: Parents 1

Year: 3
Thanksgiving: Parents 2
Christmas: Home (Parents 1 and/or 2 come to us)

[Sibley]

It's just hard for me because my mom does not have anyone.  Her parents are deceased; her brother passed away years ago; she is still single.  This has always been the 2,000 pound gorilla of leverage that my mom has used to make us create separate time, but we just cannot do it anymore.

That is her choice, not yours. If she wants to see you badly enough, then she will figure out how to fit into your plans. Do not let her manipulate you into doing what she wants at your expense.

[Gin1984]

Btw, when the kids are little you can get away with tricks too.  My mom recently confessed that she used to change the date of Christmas on us.  On the 24th we opened presents at home thinking it was Christmas, and then the following day we'd drive to my cousin's house.

I love this more than words can express.

When my older brother was old enough to look forward to christmas but young enough to believe anything, my father convinced him than President Reagan had postponed christmas for a week because the economy needed more time for people to buy presents.  He believed it, and started telling his friends, some of whom got very upset.  My dad thought it was hysterical, but other parents were not as amused.

I literally laughed out loud at this. 

[minimustache1985]

It's just hard for me because my mom does not have anyone.  Her parents are deceased; her brother passed away years ago; she is still single.  This has always been the 2,000 pound gorilla of leverage that my mom has used to make us create separate time, but we just cannot do it anymore.

That is her choice, not yours. If she wants to see you badly enough, then she will figure out how to fit into your plans. Do not let her manipulate you into doing what she wants at your expense.

+1, but if you want to compromise and are hosting dinner around a typical dinner time  I would suggest inviting your mom over earlier so she could still get some time in and leave before her ex arrives.  That might still make her feel included and “able” to come but you’re still hosting and everyone coming to you.

I have a low tolerance for guilt trips as H’s extended family (particularly FILs side) has ridiculously unrealistic expectations, they threw a fit that we didn’t come back with a 2 month old for Christmas the year DS was born since they all wanted to meet him.  Uh, not flying with a baby that young during flu season, full stop.  This year we are skipping because I will be nearly 8 months pregnant, which is not negotiable.

I also sympathize as we have way too many stops to make if we visit everyone.  Pre-kid we did it for a few years and it was terrible- fly to one corner of Ohio where H’s immediate family and most of my extended lives, then drive 4 hours to H’s extended in the opposite corner, drive back, then fly back.  We called it the tour de Ohio and while we still do it every other year we now stay put the other.  This results in guilt trips from the extended, as H’s grandmother still hosts and “who knows how long she’ll be around”.  So while we don’t have divorces to deal with (except my sister and her ex which complicates when we can see my niece scheduling wise since niece is with her dad half the time) having both parents and grandparents to fit in is a giant PITA.  We’ve flown directly to the extended and skipped the parents before, but that also means we don’t see my side at all which sucks since they’re the ones who don’t guilt trip and I don’t want to punish them or reward H’s extended.

[Cassie]

I am really surprised at the responses from many of your parents. Both my parents and in laws had a crib and high chair for all the grandkids. No one demanded anything. My parents believed kids should be home so Xmas was at our house with me making the main meal and my mom doing all the sides and desserts. My in-laws lived across the country and thanksgiving meant deer hunting so we drove 1200 miles to enjoy them. We didn’t mind traveling with 3 small kids. Once the kids were in school I had to stay home because it was a 2 week trip.  My in-laws came to us once every 2 years. Never any drama.  We are divorced and remarried but can definitely go to all family events together and have fun. Every year we play it by ear because my son and his wife work holidays. Some years my DIL cooks on Xmas eve and some I do. Some years she is exhausted and we don’t get together. My other 2 live across the world. Some years I host a big dinner and some we go out. I think being flexible is key.

[cpa cat]

I always spent Christmas at home (my grandparents lived in England and we were in Canada - our parents actually used to fly back, but after doing it once with two kids, put their foot down about it), so I don't understand why people insist on taking their kids all over the place. The memories of Xmas at home are infinitely better for kids than all the schlepping around. Even when my parents were divorced, they just traded off Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Then I married my husband. In his family, every holiday involves intense Catholic guilt trips. Not only do all family members have to attend, it is a betrayal if any of their spouses choose to spend time away with their own families, or if anyone wants to spend time with a divorced parent. For the last three years, his great grandmother has claimed that she will literally die of a broken heart if anyone doesn't show up. Her death also becomes imminent if anyone tries to leave early. She actually starts crying and talking about death if you're like "Well, time to go..."

This is super fun for me, because I'm not Catholic, and various food allergies mean there is literally nothing for me to eat at these out of town celebrations. My husband gets an additional guilt trip flung onto us because I decline attending church and because I "refuse" to eat the food.

We don't have children, so our importance is relatively diminished. Our presence is demanded, but we can usually slip away while grandma is crying about not seeing some kids often enough. Of course, when she has everyone around, she makes sure we all know that every family member who has died in the last several years told her on their deathbeds that they regretted not visiting enough or not seeing grandchildren enough. Regardless of their actual cause of death, their death certificates have all been revised to "death from broken heart: did not see family enough."

All I can say is: hold firm. My BIL made the mistake of saying that they were going to stay home for Xmas from now on, to make family memories at home, but then gave in and visited anyway. Now they rush around to visit our family, his wife's family, all while spending Christmas Eve at home so "Santa can find the kids." They just added an additional layer of complexity to their lives.

[Sibley]

I am really surprised at the responses from many of your parents. Both my parents and in laws had a crib and high chair for all the grandkids. No one demanded anything. My parents believed kids should be home so Xmas was at our house with me making the main meal and my mom doing all the sides and desserts. My in-laws lived across the country and thanksgiving meant deer hunting so we drove 1200 miles to enjoy them. We didn’t mind traveling with 3 small kids. Once the kids were in school I had to stay home because it was a 2 week trip.  My in-laws came to us once every 2 years. Never any drama.  We are divorced and remarried but can definitely go to all family events together and have fun. Every year we play it by ear because my son and his wife work holidays. Some years my DIL cooks on Xmas eve and some I do. Some years she is exhausted and we don’t get together. My other 2 live across the world. Some years I host a big dinner and some we go out. I think being flexible is key.

You are incredibly lucky and privileged to have sane, reasonable people for family members. Enjoy it.

[Chris Pascale]

Summary -- I'm wondering how people here let their parents know that it's just not about them anymore

When I lived away from home my wife and I twice burned up all my leave by going to Texas for part of the holiday, then NY the rest. By the end of it, we'd generally had some kind of unpleasantness with both sides, no vacation time left, and had charged the trip on the credit card to be paid off with some of our coming tax refund.

It sucked.

Now I live near my family in NY and have actually not gone to some local holidays to see friends and relatives out of town.

How did we do this? I gave my family advance notice that I was not going to be there on the day, so that they could do proper planning. It was not a discussion. I was clear, therefore I was kind.

A family event is coming up that involves church and dinner. I RSVP'd to say "I'll be at church, but not dinner" which is my compromise because I don't want to go to either, and will be saving the couple about $200 by not having to pay for 6 plates. The hosts thanked me for the advance notice.

Earlier this year there was a wedding out of town. I would have liked to have gone, but I have 4 kids, and it was a no-kids event, so I RSVP'd with a gift and my regrets.

In all of the situations, more than 1 person has tried to explain to me that I'm wrong. My response is that "we are doing x." End of discussion.

[Sibley]

This thread makes me so happy to be Jewish.

Don't delude yourself. You still have some version of crap to deal with. It's just not Christmas.

[mm1970]

snip

Then I married my husband. In his family, every holiday involves intense Catholic guilt trips. Not only do all family members have to attend, it is a betrayal if any of their spouses choose to spend time away with their own families, or if anyone wants to spend time with a divorced parent. For the last three years, his great grandmother has claimed that she will literally die of a broken heart if anyone doesn't show up. Her death also becomes imminent if anyone tries to leave early. She actually starts crying and talking about death if you're like "Well, time to go..."

This is super fun for me, because I'm not Catholic, and various food allergies mean there is literally nothing for me to eat at these out of town celebrations. My husband gets an additional guilt trip flung onto us because I decline attending church and because I "refuse" to eat the food.

We don't have children, so our importance is relatively diminished. Our presence is demanded, but we can usually slip away while grandma is crying about not seeing some kids often enough. Of course, when she has everyone around, she makes sure we all know that every family member who has died in the last several years told her on their deathbeds that they regretted not visiting enough or not seeing grandchildren enough. Regardless of their actual cause of death, their death certificates have all been revised to "death from broken heart: did not see family enough."

more snip

Ugh...and I thought my Catholic family was bad!

I gave my family advance notice that I was not going to be there on the day, so that they could do proper planning. It was not a discussion. I was clear, therefore I was kind.

Yup.  Told MIL we wouldn't be visiting next summer as we normally would. 

She immediately turned around and bought a plane ticket to visit us in late winter.  Win-win!

[Psychstache]

This thread makes me so happy to be Jewish and to have all family that is local, flexible, and super laid back about the holidays

Don't delude yourself. You still have some version of crap to deal with. It's just not Christmas.

That's fair. Given that, I have edited accordingly :)

[Tris Prior]

snip

Then I married my husband. In his family, every holiday involves intense Catholic guilt trips. Not only do all family members have to attend, it is a betrayal if any of their spouses choose to spend time away with their own families, or if anyone wants to spend time with a divorced parent. For the last three years, his great grandmother has claimed that she will literally die of a broken heart if anyone doesn't show up. Her death also becomes imminent if anyone tries to leave early. She actually starts crying and talking about death if you're like "Well, time to go..."

This is super fun for me, because I'm not Catholic, and various food allergies mean there is literally nothing for me to eat at these out of town celebrations. My husband gets an additional guilt trip flung onto us because I decline attending church and because I "refuse" to eat the food.

We don't have children, so our importance is relatively diminished. Our presence is demanded, but we can usually slip away while grandma is crying about not seeing some kids often enough. Of course, when she has everyone around, she makes sure we all know that every family member who has died in the last several years told her on their deathbeds that they regretted not visiting enough or not seeing grandchildren enough. Regardless of their actual cause of death, their death certificates have all been revised to "death from broken heart: did not see family enough."

more snip

Ugh...and I thought my Catholic family was bad!

Is this a Catholic thing? I'm not Catholic, but I was married to one for a few years, and this was exactly my experience. I thought it was just MY ex-in-laws! It was not considered OK for me to want to spend any time whatsoever at any holiday (not just Thanksgiving or Christmas, but also Easter, Mother's Day, Father's Day, Memorial Day.....) with my parents. Even if we spent some time at my in-laws before or after! They wanted the entire day. It was incredibly stressful.

They also were completely clueless about what my vegetarianism meant - hint: green beans are not vegetarian if you put bacon in them, stuffing is not vegetarian if you cook it inside the bird.... I'd end up bringing my own food so I could eat.

[cpa cat]

Is this a Catholic thing? I'm not Catholic, but I was married to one for a few years, and this was exactly my experience. I thought it was just MY ex-in-laws! It was not considered OK for me to want to spend any time whatsoever at any holiday (not just Thanksgiving or Christmas, but also Easter, Mother's Day, Father's Day, Memorial Day.....) with my parents. Even if we spent some time at my in-laws before or after! They wanted the entire day. It was incredibly stressful.

They also were completely clueless about what my vegetarianism meant - hint: green beans are not vegetarian if you put bacon in them, stuffing is not vegetarian if you cook it inside the bird.... I'd end up bringing my own food so I could eat.

I still hear about the one Christmas I missed 16 years ago because I spent it with my family in Canada. Someone will tell a story and then turn to me and say "Oh, that probably happened that Christmas you weren't here." It actually doesn't matter when the story takes place, if I'm in the room, it always happened 16 years ago when I missed Christmas. Or, my personal favorite, "I didn't even know you were going to come. I assumed you preferred to spend Christmas in Canada." One time. One time I went to Canada.

And 10000 times the vegetarian thing. After years of being vegetarian, I become physically ill if I eat meat. I've tried. It would be convenient to eat meat now because of my other food allergies, but it's just not possible. But the culture in the family is meat-heavy, and it's like this personal insult to not eat the food. And they act surprised every year. "Oh, you're still doing that?" "You can pick out the bacon." "Chicken broth is vegetarian, right?" "This isn't meat, it's just a dish made out of the boiled down skull of a pig."

[Cassie]

My son had a GF for 7 years that was a vegetarian. I would make spaghetti and take her sauce out before the meat was put in. I also made other things such as a salad, etc that she could eat. It’s really not that hard.  And no that demanding more time on holidays then the other parents is not a catholic thing. It’s a selfish thing.

[Sibley]

Is this a Catholic thing? I'm not Catholic, but I was married to one for a few years, and this was exactly my experience. I thought it was just MY ex-in-laws! It was not considered OK for me to want to spend any time whatsoever at any holiday (not just Thanksgiving or Christmas, but also Easter, Mother's Day, Father's Day, Memorial Day.....) with my parents. Even if we spent some time at my in-laws before or after! They wanted the entire day. It was incredibly stressful.

They also were completely clueless about what my vegetarianism meant - hint: green beans are not vegetarian if you put bacon in them, stuffing is not vegetarian if you cook it inside the bird.... I'd end up bringing my own food so I could eat.

I still hear about the one Christmas I missed 16 years ago because I spent it with my family in Canada. Someone will tell a story and then turn to me and say "Oh, that probably happened that Christmas you weren't here." It actually doesn't matter when the story takes place, if I'm in the room, it always happened 16 years ago when I missed Christmas. Or, my personal favorite, "I didn't even know you were going to come. I assumed you preferred to spend Christmas in Canada." One time. One time I went to Canada.

And 10000 times the vegetarian thing. After years of being vegetarian, I become physically ill if I eat meat. I've tried. It would be convenient to eat meat now because of my other food allergies, but it's just not possible. But the culture in the family is meat-heavy, and it's like this personal insult to not eat the food. And they act surprised every year. "Oh, you're still doing that?" "You can pick out the bacon." "Chicken broth is vegetarian, right?" "This isn't meat, it's just a dish made out of the boiled down skull of a pig."

CPA Cat, you're way nicer than me. With that kind of attitude, I wouldn't go to ANYTHING.

[former player]

My in-laws lived across the country and thanksgiving meant deer hunting so we drove 1200 miles to enjoy them. We didn’t mind traveling with 3 small kids.

Possibly the two most astonishing sentences in this whole thread.

[Teachstache]

We are hosting Thanksgiving for spouse's family so as to not have to attend 3 Thanksgivings. For Christmas, my mom has finally decided that Christmas Eve with 3 grandchildren under 5 just won't work anymore, so we're doing my family Christmas the weekend before the holiday. We're building spouse's family Christmas into the departure leg of our 10 day National Parks Great American Road trip. Bonus = no room in our car for gifts to take with us.

[Stachetastic]

I married into a Catholic family who are, thankfully, completely void of the guilt gene. They can be annoying at times, but I am grateful they have never once guilted DH or me about how or with whom we spend our time.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

So we hosted Thanksgiving from 2:00 - 6:00 as planned.  My brother and his wife loved it (they have a little 2.5 year old; our house is completely childproofed).  Per a recommendation in this thread, I invited my mom at noon, and she stayed until 4:00.  She seemed happy. Thanks @minimustache1985

My dad's wife, however, scheduled Thanksgiving with her family at 1:30.  I gave her a ton of notice about our Thanksgiving.  She and my dad did not get over until about 4:45-5:00.  My son (nine months old) goes to bed around 6:15, so they were only over for an hour, and they did not eat.  I feel really bad for my dad, but his wife is an emotional handful and he has to pick his battles.

***

Christmas planning rolled around. Yay!

My mom wants to come and do Christmas literally "whenever."  She proposed January 10, and that she does not want to give gifts in front of my dad and his wife (they make probably 5-6x what she makes).  I told her no because her idea is not sustainable. She can bring her gifts the day of.

Even better, my dad's wife sent a text last night proposing 12/28/2019 as a Christmas dinner and big gift exchange.  First, she knows we don't want to do a gift exchange. Second, she knows we leave for Disney first thing on the 29th.  And third, she knows we are hosting on Christmas, but she wanted to do *another* dinner.

I responded: "Kate and I are hosting Christmas Day from 2:00 to 6:00.  You're welcome the whole time.  We did not want to do gifts except for [grandkids].  We want the holidays to be about them."

***

So this is still struggling along this year.  I hate that I feel like a dick for inviting them over for FOUR HOURS on the actual day of the holiday. They are acting like I'm some Scrooge, when the Scrooge thing to do would be, "Hey, we are doing our own thing, you're not invited, have a nice day."

Incredibly annoyed, but per my brother, I'm just going to weather the storm this year. 

[Cassie]

Good job sticking to your guns about this! You can’t please everyone and will make yourself crazy trying.

[shelivesthedream]

Thanksgiving sounds like it went really well. You announced what you were doing, gave people reasonable opportunities to join in or not, and they made their own choices.

The one thing I would say about Christmas is that I do think it would be good to encourage your mum to do presents on a different day. Either a day she's seeing you anyway or for her to drop them off or post them so your toddler can open them on or around Christmas day. "We wanted him to open something on Christmas" is a great excuse to avoid lots of hurt feelings and gift comparisons when he inevitably prefers one totally random thing over another and obviously doesn't hide it at all. Also, spreading it out will make the seasonal gift bomb much less overwhelming for him and the spotlight less intense on the day you host, hopefully leading to more fun and fewer meltdowns . He'll get more out of receiving fewer things at a time, and so will your sanity!

[marble_faun]

My husband's family opens their gifts on Christmas Eve, which always seemed odd to me, but it could be a good new tradition to start with either your mom or dad's side.  One parent comes over with gifts to open on Christmas Eve, the other gets Christmas Day.  Both days are "high Christmas" and will be memorable for the grandkids. 

Maybe they could each have their own traditions. Like, the Eve grandparent reads The Night Before Christmas and helps put out cookies and nog for Santa, and the Day grandparent is there for a holiday meal and playing with toys.  Or something along those lines.

I get that dividing it up is perpetuating the divorce dynamic, but it could end up being more fun for the kids to spread out the gifts and grandparent holiday cheer across two days!

[CrustyBadger]

My mom wants to come and do Christmas literally "whenever."  She proposed January 10, and that she does not want to give gifts in front of my dad and his wife (they make probably 5-6x what she makes).  I told her no because her idea is not sustainable. She can bring her gifts the day of.

What do you mean that her idea is "not sustainable"?

I think it is a reasonable compromise. Your mom at least is being reasonably flexible.

Are you guys at all religious?  Many people celebrate Epiphany or Three Kings Day on January 6th.  This was actually the day that the Three Kings/Wise Men came and brought their gifts to the Christ child so it is the source of our Christmas gift giving tradition (in theory anyhow).

It is considered the end of the Christmas seasons (the 12 Days of Christmas being Dec 25-Jan 6th).  So could you have her over on Jan. 6th (or close to it) to celebrate Three Kings Day?

You could have a Three Kings Day cake (with the little baby Jesus inside .. or a coin)

You can decorate with luminaria.

https://www.baylor.edu/content/services/document.php/159118.pdf

This could be the start of a special tradition with your mom and grandkid(s).  It isn't a "make believe" holiday, it is one of the oldest feasts in the Catholic tradition.  If she's into it she could make it her own... I'm of Italian Catholic descent, and we celebrated this holiday, although I think it is observed more in Hispanic/South American countries.  You could have a Mexican feast of some sort and then a three kings cake for example, and your mom could exchange presents with your little one, who could then give grandma something small but thoughtful. I think it would be a great way to end the season.

Just a thought!

(edited typos)

[Villanelle]

My mom wants to come and do Christmas literally "whenever."  She proposed January 10, and that she does not want to give gifts in front of my dad and his wife (they make probably 5-6x what she makes).  I told her no because her idea is not sustainable. She can bring her gifts the day of.

What do you mean that her idea is "not sustainable"?

I think it is a reasonable compromise. Your mom at least is being reasonably flexible.

Are you guys at all religious?  Many people celebrate Epiphany or Three Kinds Day on January 6th.  This was actually the day that the Three Kings/Wise Men came and brought their gifts to the Christ child so it is the source of our Christmas gift giving tradition (in theory anyhow).

It is considered the end of the Christmas seasons (the 12 Days of Christmas being Dec 25-Jan 6th).  So could you have her over on Dec. 6th (or close to it) to celebrate Three Kings Day?

You could have a Three Kings Day cake (with the little baby Jesus inside .. or a coin)

You can decorate with luminaria.

https://www.baylor.edu/content/services/document.php/159118.pdf

This could be the start of a special tradition with your mom and grandkid(s).  It isn't a "make believe" holiday, it is one of the oldest feasts in the Catholic tradition.  If she's into it she could make it her own... I'm of Italian Catholic descent, and we celebrated this holiday, although I think it is observed more in Hispanic/South American countries.  You could have a Mexican feast of some sort and then a three kings cake for example, and your mom could exchange presents with your little one, who could then give grandma something small but thoughtful. I think it would be a great way to end the season.

Just a thought!

I agree.  I'm not quite understanding how getting together with your mom for one day in say, a 30 day window (or longer) each year isn't sustainable.  It seems like a wonderful solution and an opportunity to help dissipate some of the holiday craziness and pressure. 

You can almost treat it like it's not Christmas.  Your mom wants to get together and spend time with your family at a time and date that works for all of you.  That's seems very reasonable and flexible. 

[CrustyBadger]

My dad's wife, however, scheduled Thanksgiving with her family at 1:30.  I gave her a ton of notice about our Thanksgiving.  She and my dad did not get over until about 4:45-5:00.  My son (nine months old) goes to bed around 6:15, so they were only over for an hour, and they did not eat.  I feel really bad for my dad, but his wife is an emotional handful and he has to pick his battles.

I have a hard time seeing your dad's wife as the bad guy here.

She wanted to celebrate Thanksgiving with her family (does that include her biological children?) so she hosted Thanksgiving dinner at her house and invited your family.

You chose to host Thanksgiving at your house because you have a baby and invited her and your dad.

Your dad's wife cooked her own feast, hosted the party at 1:30 and then at 4:30 (3 hours after her dinner started so presumably her relatives were still at her house?) drive over to your house, so her husband, you dad, could spend a little Thanksgiving time with his son and grandson.

Assuming that they were polite about it all, that seems like decent flexibility to me.   Of COURSE they didn't eat any food.  They had just finished their own meal!   

They came and saw the baby for about an hour before he had to go to bed -- that's pretty normal for gatherings with a baby.  Even if they had come at 2 PM chances are the baby might have been napping or something right?

I think you are totally within your rights to say you don't want to shlep around on holidays to three houses.  But unless I am missing something, these don't seem like bad people to me. 

[TVRodriguez]

I had the same read as @CrustyBadger on the situation as described.  Both grandparents got there, they didn't overlap, and both got to see kid while kid was awake.  Overall, sounds like things went well.   Congrats for making it work!

I'm also in agreement with Crusty and @Villanelle about Christmas with your mom in January.   As your kid gets older, it could actually be a great thing (well, for your kid)  if your mom is the type of grandparent who insists on giving toys.  New toys in January, just when the Christmas toys are less "shiny and new."  Kids love that!

I've participated in Christmas in January celebrations when circumstances so required (friend studied overseas and couldn't come home until January, so her mom threw a Christmas in January, with full fancy pants meal and tree and everything), and they were always fun, so I'm all for it.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

My husband's family opens their gifts on Christmas Eve, which always seemed odd to me, but it could be a good new tradition to start with either your mom or dad's side.  One parent comes over with gifts to open on Christmas Eve, the other gets Christmas Day.  Both days are "high Christmas" and will be memorable for the grandkids. 

Maybe they could each have their own traditions. Like, the Eve grandparent reads The Night Before Christmas and helps put out cookies and nog for Santa, and the Day grandparent is there for a holiday meal and playing with toys.  Or something along those lines.

I get that dividing it up is perpetuating the divorce dynamic, but it could end up being more fun for the kids to spread out the gifts and grandparent holiday cheer across two days!

Christmas Eve is my in-laws big tradition.  They have a big dinner and sleepover with immediate family and Godparents.  It's a ton of fun and the tradition is very important to my wife because it's the only time all year she gets to see both her siblings.  My family does not really have a tradition like this, so we're not budging on Christmas Eve any time soon.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

I have a hard time seeing your dad's wife as the bad guy here.

She wanted to celebrate Thanksgiving with her family (does that include her biological children?) so she hosted Thanksgiving dinner at her house and invited your family.

You chose to host Thanksgiving at your house because you have a baby and invited her and your dad.

Your dad's wife cooked her own feast, hosted the party at 1:30 and then at 4:30 (3 hours after her dinner started so presumably her relatives were still at her house?) drive over to your house, so her husband, you dad, could spend a little Thanksgiving time with his son and grandson.

Assuming that they were polite about it all, that seems like decent flexibility to me.   Of COURSE they didn't eat any food.  They had just finished their own meal!   

They came and saw the baby for about an hour before he had to go to bed -- that's pretty normal for gatherings with a baby.  Even if they had come at 2 PM chances are the baby might have been napping or something right?

I think you are totally within your rights to say you don't want to shlep around on holidays to three houses.  But unless I am missing something, these don't seem like bad people to me.

As a threshold matter, I really want to thank everyone for contributing to this thread.  The holiday scheduling, for me, has been the most emotionally difficult thing for me as an adult. It's the one thing my divorced parents bitch about, and it's hard.  I know that, if this is the worst of my problems, that means I have a pretty good life, and I'm okay. But this has been a great and necessary space to vent for me.

***

I've wasted an hour typing and deleting a lot in response to this.  There's a lot of backstory here, most of which I deleted. And I don't know why I feel compelled to share why I feel the way I feel, but since this has turned into a journal of sorts, a few things:

***

My dad's wife has never respected any of our family traditions. It's been her way or the highway for a decade.

I've typed and deleted a lot of examples, but eventually came to the conclusion that it's pretty much everything -- the food, the atmosphere (casual vs. formal), the tree itself, the lights, everything.  There is not a single tradition we did as kids that still gets honored over there.

Conversely, my brothers and I have always tried to accommodate her and her daughter.  They have a little "traveling" birthday cake; it's this little plastic cake they light up on people's birthdays, and they've done it forever. We always make a big deal out of it with them now. They also hide this little pickle ornament in the tree, and the winner gets a silly gift. We've always played along.

My dad's wife has never really reciprocated. The holidays have been her way or the highway ever since she's been around. And she's always picked the date, leaving my mom and our in-laws scrambling for goofy days to celebrate.

I completely understand that she should and need to see her family on the holidays.  But being completely inflexible and wanting to dictate the holidays on her terms, when we expressly said that "the kids are trying to start a new tradition," is par for the course of the last decade-plus.

***

On top of this, my dad's wife also refuses to schedule anything unless EVERYONE can be there, her daughter included. We've invited them out to dinner to be with our son probably 5-6 times this year. They've never accepted because "Sibling X can't make it, let's do it another time." And I always insist, no, let's just get together anyway, and it never happens. They live 0.8 miles away and they've stopped to see our son four times.

So again, the scheduling stuff is not an abnormality this year.  She scheduled when she wanted to schedule and didn't take anything else into consideration. 

***

I've left out other probably more important stuff, including how rocky things were when my dad's wife came onto the scene.  I can assure you that will nuke the thread, and I'm not here to trash my dad's wife, so I'm going to just keep it to the holiday stuff here.

But based on what I've said, I hope you can see, from my perspective, that her Thanksgiving scheduling was somewhat of a protest at the kids revolting. She's had it her way for more than a decade now because nobody has ever stood up to her. 

All of her family is in town.  She absolutely could have hosted at noon, or at 5:00, or even on Friday. But no, she couldn't give in, because she's never given into anything.

What I'm ultimately getting at is I'm just completely fed up with having my dad's wife dictate everything. And now that we are hosting, she is still dictating things in a sense -- if I'm going to host, that I'm only going to see my dad for an hour. 

***

Talking this through and writing this out -- if I'm going to give these ultimatums, I need to understand the consequences. Based on the past decade of precedent, I was naive to think my dad's wife would just roll over and let us host. I just hate that time spent with my dad is the consequence.

Learning curve for me this year as well I guess.

But based on everything else I've written, I'm still holding firm. My brothers are in lockstep with me. We are going to do a "pasta bar" on Christmas Day -- three pastas, three sauces, three meat toppings, three other toppings. Eat as much as you want. A new family tradition.  I hope my dad makes it.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

Just realizing that the TL;DR of this thread is as follows:

1. I'm tired of the holidays sucking;

2. I'm tired of my mom using a bunch of emotional arguments to make the holidays extremely inconvenient;

3. I'm tired of my dad's wife dictating everything; so

4. I'm going to use my fat but cute nine month old son as the means by which to wrestle the holidays back to an enjoyable experience instead of a cesspool of stress and misery; and

5. I need to understand the consequences of holding firm, and only worrying about what I can control.

[Cassie]

I really don’t understand older people hanging on to hosting holidays with a death grip. When I was a kid all 4 of my grandparents came to our house. My parents did the same and now we go to my kids. I can host at other times. Frankly I am happy to bring wine and not have to do any work.  Use your cute, chubby baby to change traditions:))

[StarBright]

I really don’t understand older people hanging on to hosting holidays with a death grip. When I was a kid all 4 of my grandparents came to our house. My parents did the same and now we go to my kids. I can host at other times. Frankly I am happy to bring wine and not have to do any work.  Use your cute, chubby baby to change traditions:))

I was just typing the old person POV and then saw your post which is perfect Cassie!

Even though I am a "young" both my mother and MIL feel strongly about hosting. In both of their cases they are the daughter who is "holding the family together." - the family being their siblings and extended cousins. If it weren't for their holiday hosting there would be no holiday gathering for a lot of my aunts, uncles, great aunts, etc. I really do respect their desires to keep their families connected at the holidays and don't begrudge them what they feel are their responsibilities.

It absolutely IS a pain for us to attend these gatherings and we will be skipping one in a couple of years, but we also come down on the "family is more important than our personal comfort" side of the argument. So we go with it.

Over Thanksgiving my husband and I were bitching to each other about the hassle of boarding the dog and driving for hours and taking food with us and having to hit my paternal and maternal sides in one day and blah blah blah.  But my children also got to run around in a mad pack with their second and third cousins and the evening ended with them cuddled on our laps as they heard their grandma and great aunts and uncles telling funny stories about when they were kids. My daughter got to hear a particularly cool story about the great great grandmother that she is named after. Both kids said it was the best Thanksgiving ever.

So even though it sort of sucked for me and StarHus (logistically and energy-wise) it was wonderful for our kids.

That being said - no one should feel forced or guilted into holiday participation (like it sounds like the OP was - and admittedly, we are in the StarBright house). But parents/grandparents aren't necessarily awful for holding on to hosting duties. And it can be good to remind ourselves that something that is a pain for we parents with young children might become a treasured memory for those same kids.

I will admit that this recent Thanksgiving was so magical for my children that it swayed me back to "big family holidays aren't so bad", I may very well change my mind again after Christmas :)
 

[Cassie]

Starbright, I am your woman if you ever need a old person’s opinion:)). I had not even thought about your situation because in my family everyone’s own family celebrated separately and the grandparents went where they had invites.  Our extended family would get together in summer in a park because no one had a house big enough for everyone.

[Sibley]

ReadySetMillionaire - I understand. It's not any one thing, it's the accumulation of little things that add up to a big thing.

Your dad is an adult, and he has a choice to make. He can make the effort to include you and your family, or his relationship with his adult child and the grandbaby is going to be impacted. And it hurts that he hasn't recognized this, or if he has, hasn't done anything about it.

This is a reflection on him, not on you. As long as you make your plans known, clearly, well in advance, then he has the opportunity to see you. If he's not willing to deal with his wife, then that's his choice.

If you turn to other family or friends to fill that gap, then you'll be doing what's right for your family.

[TVRodriguez]

1. I'm tired of the holidays sucking;

....

5. I need to understand the consequences of holding firm, and only worrying about what I can control.

Sorry about #1, but a heartfelt YES to #5.