The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Mini Money Mustaches => Topic started by: Mule Mama on September 15, 2014, 11:08:36 PM
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Hello badass mamas and papas. My goal for 2015 is to become a one car family (husband still wants a car to commute to his office) and get around town with my toddler and baby by bike. My otherwise very supportive family has laughed in my face on this matter because we live in southeast Michigan, where temps last winter dropped to -30 some days. (It was an unusually cold/snowy winter.)
I'm seeking tips on family biking! I was searching for a way to bike with a bigger family. Portland mama= problem solved. There's a mom in Portland, Emily Finch, who gave up her huge car and now pedals her family around in a bakfiets. This amazed me! http://bikeportland.org/2012/06/28/with-six-kids-and-no-car-this-mom-does-it-all-by-bike-73731
Has anyone else tried this? The bike is a huge investment ($3500-$5000), especially considering shipping costs from the Netherlands or one of the US coasts. I'd love to try one to see if I could do it, but I haven't seen one in my hometown yet. I might just have to build or buy, and then grow into the badassity of it as Emily Finch did. There are bike shops in Brooklyn, Boston, Portland, & Chicago (and maybe others?) that import and assemble family cargo bikes, and I'm working now on figuring out shipping. You can also add an electric assist and make this an eBike, which I will strongly consider if we do buy or make one, since the load will be 200+ pounds. My biking muscles are not that badass yet.
Workcycles.com CargoBike (Great FAQ included in this link): http://www.bakfiets-en-meer.nl/workcycles-faqs-overviews/overview-bakfiets-cargobike/
Brooklyn Rolling Orange Co that imports: http://rollingorangebikes.com/cargobikes/bakfiets-nl/ $4200 with electric pedal assist
There are instructions online for how to build your own too, and this requires welding skills. http://www.instructables.com/id/how-to-build-a-cargo-bike/ I'm considering learning how to weld, but I'm also thinking about the trade-off in time and money when we are just returning home from an international move. I have five more months to figure this out. Obviously, building your own is way more badass.
At the moment I’m focusing on building my mothering muscles by expanding my capacity to parent more children for longer hours in a foreign country away from my support network & family. I did, however, finally figure out how to rent an eBike with childseat last week, so we’re leasing one for $30 US a month, and it’s working out pretty well. My 2 year old sits in the front child seat in front of the handlebars, and I wear my 9 month old in an Ergo carrier on my back. When he is big enough (they say 12 months here in Japan), I can upgrade my bike model to a two seat kind with an extra seat on the back. I’ll lose my grocery basket space, though.
If anyone has any other great solutions, please share!
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FYI, I am sure you know this, but riding with a baby in your back is not considered acceptably safe in the US. I have definitely considered it when the babe fell asleep in the ergo while on an errand on the bike!
Anyway, why not a trailer? Much much cheaper, more flexible, lighter weight. The disadvantage is they are farther away from you so it's harder to talk to them while biking.
I think having a kid on a front seat and one on a back seat would be a lot of weight up high. I am sure it can be done, don't get me wrong, but for me personally I would worry. Maybe I just have bad balance. Just with DD in a trail-a-bike, if she gets in a goofy mood and is swinging her head/torso back and forth, she has made me crash.
If you are talking about replacing your car with an expensive bike, sure, 3-5k is probably cheaper than running a car. For my family, though, as soon as I could get my older kid (and I am seriously hoping it will happen with my younger next spring when she is 5) onto his own bike, the better. Biking with a heavy load is not fun for me, it sucks the joy right out. You mitigate that with the electric assist of course. Anyway, for me, if I was going to eject the kids out of the bakfiet and onto their own bikes at age 5-6-7, then the useful life of the bakfiet is pretty short, unless you plan to keep having a kid every two years for a decade or more. And even then, if you plan to move back to the us, you aren't going to able to socially-acceptably bike with each infant for six months anyway, so you would need a car for those first six month, long, long, ramble story short, I would just get a trailer because they are way cheaper and get the job done for the short amount of time you need one.
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Hmmm...The Portland mom has added a huge amount of mass to her bicycle contraption. I would think that the brake system would need to be adjusted, especially for the downhill rides. Also, cars are not expecting such a long contraption, so there might be a safety issue. Finally, what about stability. I don't know how easy it is to stay upright in one of these if you suddenly need to avoid a pothole or icy patch. Before spending that much money on a bike, I would definitely do more research.
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We got rid of a car and got one of these:
http://www.madsencycles.com/
It has installed seats and seatbelts in the cargo area and can fit up to four kids. I have one child, a three year old (about 40 lbs), and it's easy to take him to daycare every morning with all his stuff (lunch, little projects, etc) and my work stuff (purse, gym bag, and lunch).
Trailers are too low to the ground and the kids are too far away for my comfort - just my feeling about it. The bakfiets look cool but are very expensive, as you mentioned, and I prefer weight over the rear tire on a bike. It feels more stable for some reason. Since the decision had to be made without being able to test drive either type I went with the Madsen and it's been a great bike. There are some videos on youtube to see it in action.
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I would have to agree with the trailer idea. If you are feeling particularly badass, you could re-lace one of the bike trailer wheels with a brushless electric assist motor and battery. This would give you the assist when the trailer is attached but leave you with a lighter, non-assisted bike for smaller rides.
Another option (which could be combined with the above option) would be to modify your bike with a Xtracycle Free Radical (http://www.xtracycle.com/freeradical/ (http://www.xtracycle.com/freeradical/)). Which, if you didn't already know, is a bolt-on extension which adds cargo capacity to your bike without permanent modification. They are occasionally available used on craigslist. They also come with a series of options for increasing the cargo capacity even further, and they leave the bike open to other modifications like electric assist.
These two options would be MUCH cheaper, and likely less frustrating than the Bakfiets. Best of luck!
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I've been riding a bakfiets.nl bicycle (from http://urkai.com/bikes/cargo-bike-long-by-bakfiets/ (http://urkai.com/bikes/cargo-bike-long-by-bakfiets/)) since June 2013 with 3 kids who are now 6, 4, and 2. There are definitely pros and cons. We also have a 2-seater bike trailer (chariot cougar 2) and a trail-a-bike.
Pros:
- The kids love being up front.
- Having the kids right in front means I can defuse tense situations before they escalate. This tends to only happen when the rain cover is on.
- On quiet streets, it's easy to converse with the kids.
- The kids feel like rock stars because so many people smile, wave, and shout comments about what a cool bike it is.
- The full rain cover allows me to take the kids even when it's pouring rain.
- You can park it anywhere, even if there isn't a bike rack. It's so big and awkward that when both wheels are disabled it's extremely difficult for someone to run off with it. I just carry around a U-lock for the front wheel, and use the integrated lock for the rear wheel.
- The box carries way more cargo (e.g. Costco runs) than my trailer. This would be moot with a different trailer.
- Being able to easily carry all the kids has encouraged us to expand the network of parks and playgrounds that we visit. It's easy to do a 6-mile detour to visit an especially fun playground on our way home from daycare.
- The massive kickstand allows the kids to climb in/on/around the bike without me worrying about it falling over. All three kids quickly learned how to climb in and out of the bike by themselves.
Cons:
- These bikes are expensive! Although it's cheaper than many cars, it does not seem mustachian. For me, it counts as part of the luxury/weakness category in that I know I'm spending more than necessary on this.
- It turns like a bus. After trying some 11- and 13-point turns on the sidewalk in front of the kids' daycare, I've resorted to just backing it up 100' and turning around in the nearby parking lot.
- The seats are bumpier than in our trailer, and the 20" wheel up front doesn't help with cracks or potholes. It's bumpiest when the box is empty or lightly-loaded. When the box is fully loaded, it seems as though the frame itself provides some degree of suspension.
- Having invested so much in the bakfiets has influenced my decision-making in terms of when to get my oldest kids to ride their bikes. Once I recognized this, I started encouraging them to ride their own bikes more and they love that too - possibly even more than riding in the bakfiets.
Actually, now that my oldest two kids love their own bikes so much, I'm seriously considering selling our bakfiets and getting a beefy rear seat (like the bobike junior) for those rare times when we need to go farther than my oldest can ride his own bike.
Hmmm...The Portland mom has added a huge amount of mass to her bicycle contraption. I would think that the brake system would need to be adjusted, especially for the downhill rides.
This is a valid concern. When I ordered my bike in February 2013, the manufacturer didn't even sell an e-bike version because they were worried that the electric assist could get you up hills that the brakes couldn't safely get you down. Since then, they must have upgraded the braking system - although it would be best to check for sure. I've had my bakfiets on some pretty steep hills in Montreal and the braking hasn't been a problem. I don't get up to full speed down the steepest hills though.
Also, cars are not expecting such a long contraption, so there might be a safety issue. Finally, what about stability. I don't know how easy it is to stay upright in one of these if you suddenly need to avoid a pothole or icy patch. Before spending that much money on a bike, I would definitely do more research.
The stability while riding is remarkably good. There's definitely a learning curve, but I found after a year that the bike felt nimble even with over 110 lbs of kids in the front. If the kids shake side-to-side it can influence steering a little bit but not nearly as much as a trail-a-bike. With experience, it's pretty easy to keep the bike upright. Of course, it's harder when the bike is going slowly but even that gets much easier with practice.
If you can, I highly recommend trying one of these out. The company we purchased ours from (Urkai) has moved from Montreal to Burlington (near Toronto) and they organize test rides fairly often.
Also, if you'd like you can give me a call to discuss further questions. I haven't tried it yet, but there is a way to send personal messages to MMM forum users and I could share my phone number with you that way.
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If you are talking about replacing your car with an expensive bike, sure, 3-5k is probably cheaper than running a car. For my family, though, as soon as I could get my older kid (and I am seriously hoping it will happen with my younger next spring when she is 5) onto his own bike, the better. Biking with a heavy load is not fun for me, it sucks the joy right out. You mitigate that with the electric assist of course. Anyway, for me, if I was going to eject the kids out of the bakfiet and onto their own bikes at age 5-6-7, then the useful life of the bakfiet is pretty short, unless you plan to keep having a kid every two years for a decade or more. And even then, if you plan to move back to the us, you aren't going to able to socially-acceptably bike with each infant for six months anyway, so you would need a car for those first six month, long, long, ramble story short, I would just get a trailer because they are way cheaper and get the job done for the short amount of time you need one.
MayDay, thank you for making these excellent points. It is giving me something to consider.
When we return to the US, my kiddos will be 14 months and almost 3. We would like to have four kids total, and we try to be a family who is welcoming lots of other folks into our life and our home. When MMM writes about giving up the idea of driving around your kids' friends so that you can trade in a minivan for a smaller car, I get a little bit sad. I definitely do not want a minivan, but I do want to haul my kids' friends around and help out the mamas in my life when they need help. This morning in Japan, for example, my friend's husband woke up with terrible back pain and needed to head to the hospital. I offered to pick up her kids and take them to our playgroup, so she could help him navigate the Japanese health system. I had been planning to bike to playgroup, but since I'd have a third kid with me, I had to drive. If I had a third seat on my bike, I could have biked! This sort of stuff happens in my life surprisingly often. I think I used the 4 seats in that big old bucket fairly regularly.
It is a very good point that I won't be able to bike with any new babies on board for the first half year of their lives. One thought is that I could try to plan pregnancy so that new babies arrive at the beginning of winter, when it's freezing and snowy and awful anyway. I could walk during the winter with the double stroller, and then haul the bike out again in the spring. Another thought is that many of these bike shop websites say that the buckets are designed to hold an entire infant car seat. I'd have to test that for safety first though. I'm a nurse, and the idea of baby head trauma terrifies me.
We do live in a bike friendly town, so I hope that after our family uses the bike, I'd be able to resell it and recover at least some of the cost. It looks like these bikes are pretty useful for costco runs and farmer's market hauls though too, so we'd have to see if we could part with it.
I really do love biking, and we are fortunate to live in a town with many bike lanes, relatively flat geography, and everything we need within one to five miles of our house.
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We got rid of a car and got one of these:
http://www.madsencycles.com/
It has installed seats and seatbelts in the cargo area and can fit up to four kids. I have one child, a three year old (about 40 lbs), and it's easy to take him to daycare every morning with all his stuff (lunch, little projects, etc) and my work stuff (purse, gym bag, and lunch).
Trailers are too low to the ground and the kids are too far away for my comfort - just my feeling about it. The bakfiets look cool but are very expensive, as you mentioned, and I prefer weight over the rear tire on a bike. It feels more stable for some reason. Since the decision had to be made without being able to test drive either type I went with the Madsen and it's been a great bike. There are some videos on youtube to see it in action.
This is amazing, and I love it, and when Baby Tofu is old enough, I think we will be getting one.
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AllChoptUp, Maseroni, & ScottyDog,
Thank you so much for your great input. The madsen would be much less expensive, so we're looking into it! It sounds like they have bikes on sale at year end as well to get rid of current year models.
ScottyDog, thank you for listing your pros and cons for the bakfiets! All the pros made me really want to buy that bike. Right now my two year old is riding in a handlebar basket seat, and we have great conversations as we pedal around the city. She LOVES it. I can really see the benefit of having the kids in the front where we can talk, especially if we're going to spend many hours a week on this thing for the next 5 years until she can ride her own bike.
Also, the cons are very helpful. On the one hand, an expensive bike is a luxury. On the other, dropping a car and biking everywhere is a big lifestyle change for our family (We had been leasing a large prius for $300/month through my husband's company because the company pays insurance & maintenance, and my husband wanted to have one very reliable vehicle for road trips to visit his family.) If we buy a bike and I use it for at least six months after we get home, the Madsen would be a win financially. The bakfiets would take longer. :)
I will contact you through the message option when I have a minute to figure it out. Toronto is not too far to travel for us (we could even take a train), and Urkai is probably the bakfiets shop closest to us. Thank you for sharing about this option!
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Mustachian wisdom suggests that you don't spend money foolishly and that you make sure that when you do spend money, it goes toward something that is truly aligned with your priorities. I'm a huge bike nut, and have more bikes than one should and yet I ride all of them often for transportation and for fun. My primary bike - to preschool, to work, around the neighborhood, for groceries, to Costco, hauling other neighborhood kids for rides is my bakfiets with electric assist. A CETMA Cargo with Bionx. I have ridden (and in some cases, owned) many kinds of kid hauling bicycles, including trailers, rear seats, front seats, Xtracycles, etc. but the CETMA with Eassist is easily my favorite family hauling vehicle. It is like having a picnic with your kids as you ride through the neighborhood!
It has nearly eliminated ALL car trips for me over the past couple of years. I agree with all the pros listed above but with the CETMA, many of the cons are negated. It is "sportier" than other bakfiets with its ability to corner and its large balloon tires easily absorb bumps. While expensive, bakfiets are also a niche bike that I believe retains much of its resale value. Right now I have about $4000 in my CETMA and I've been riding it for a year and change. In five years when I sell it as my kids are all riding and perhaps too big/heavy (though the Eassist really changes this dramatically) I imagine I'll recover about 2-3000 of that investment. People all spend their money differently here, but IMHO this is a fabulous use of my money.
As for winter, just so you know, I also invested in a canopy for the bakfiets that attaches when it is raining and/or snowing. (this is supposed to be a car replacement afterall!) It keeps the wind out and I keep a sleeping bag and some insulation in the garage for the kids when it is really cold. I've been looking at making a big bag of rice or something that can be microwaved and then sat on by them when we head out in really, really cold weather but honestly the two kids in their winter gear, with a sleeping bag and protected from the wind creates a bit of a greenhouse effect with the canopy to the point where there aren't many complaints of the cold with this set up. We'll see as winter sets in again.
I, too, am happy to answer any questions about riding this type of bike. I've been in the family biking game for awhile and have a lot of experience with the different ways to do it. While a trailer is the most mustachian, for certain, there are times where most mustachian just doesn't fit my priorities the same as others. Sometimes it is nice to be different. :)
onemorebike
p.s. I've attached a pic of my minimustaches stopped to check out some ducks we ran into on a ride a couple months ago.
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Um, no way I'd do this, though admittedly I'm not a huge bike proponent. I'm having trouble believing it'd be safe. It's expensive, and it'd only be useful for a few years while the kids are small. I can really see it sitting in the garage collecting dust because it'd be so much effort.
You can become a one-car family in other ways:
I'd arrange with my husband that he'd have the car perhaps three days a week . . . and the other two days I'd drive him to work and bring the car home. It'd be easy to arrange all my errands, kid-needs, library trips, whatever on those two days. It could even be one day a week out of the house for the kids and me.
As for groceries, I'd leave the kids with my husband at home in the evenings and do the shopping alone.
Husband isn't on board with it? Convince him with numbers. Surely he's interested in saving money.
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Hello!
I am a mom of six, from ages 10 to 1. I was amazed by Emily Finch's story too...and now, a few years later, here I am with a cargo trike, bakfiets, trail-a-bikes, and all sorts of accessories to haul the family around. We are planning to be a "no car" family come November. So often I have exclaimed to hubs, "this bike (whichever I'm riding) is one of the BEST things we've ever bought!"
Before I read her story, I never rode the kids around---I had too many little ones for it to be realistic. I didn't like bike trailers as I couldn't respond well when one sibling was making another cry or dropped their sippy cup or whatever.
Here are some things that helped me:
1. Consider your physical ability. I am not the most coordinated or strong person (I'm only barely 5'1" too). I started with a trike. The cargo trike is bigger and heavier than the bakfiets 2 wheeler, but I knew I would NOT tip it over! I felt stable. (Actually, you can tip it going around corners when you go really fast, but that is preventable by NOT going around corners really fast. ). We got the trike when I had 5 children, and the youngest was 14 months and it was a really good fit. Several months after my sixth baby was born, I started riding the 2 wheeler. I like it, and it's lighter....but it has taken me quite a while to feel comfortable with it. You can "dump" the 2 wheeler bike....like, at stops you have to balance the bike with your feet. When the bike is really heavily loaded you can't let it lean to the side or it can fall and you won't be able to stop it (like keeping a motorcycle up, I guess). Also, the turning on the two wheeler takes a little getting used to. I have NOT ridden the bakfiets with six children....I have worked my way up to 3 kids, and, at other times, no kids and probably about 150 pounds of groceries. (I continue to be AMAZED at Mrs. Finch riding around 6 or 7 children and a sound system and a watermelon! Bike queen!)
2. Buy used! We really scored with the cargo trike. We bid on a defietsfabriek trike on ebay, which was basically a new trike that was a bar accessory in a window or something, and got it for under 1K. The bike should have sold for about 3K at least. We got our two wheeler bakfiets from craigslist for 2K, which was a fair used price. Both bikes we have are high quality, which makes for a really nice ride. We have a less-high quality Kona, that we "make do" with to haul some kids on the back...but it is tipsy and a little nerve wracking to ride. Go with a bike made for hauling that you feel comfortable with.
3. The baby goes in a car seat for the first year, at least. We started biking with the new baby after she was almost two months, and we used the carseat in the trike (and now in the 2 wheeler). We put pillows under the carseat and bungee the carseat inside the cargo box and just tried to work around the baby's routine when she was younger. I HATE riding or driving with a screaming baby, so we'd try to time rides during her naps. You can also buy a suspension kit that gets bolted into the bakfiets for a carseat.
4. With a trike, you *can* fit kids and groceries....but it's almost impossible to fit a good shopping trip haul in with the baby in a carseat. I find myself doing more solo grocery shopping now, post baby 6, (for the big weekly trip), and leaving the rest with my husband. I actually really like it that way...I can fit way more in the box and I can actually *think clearly* in the store. (The littles usually behave well in the store, but still....even a herd of nicely behaved children in the grocery store frazzles me.) If you have four children, you might be okay to add on lots of groceries, if you use a tandem set-up.
5. Using the trail-a-bike (or follow me tandem) is great to help the older children get moving, while still being safe. Our city is not the greatest for biking. We are just barely getting some bike lanes this year and there are hardly any separated paths. Having the kids attached has helped give me some peace of mind. Our 10 and 9 year olds are riding their own bikes more often now, but I'm constantly having to encourage them to watch for cars. We also found a used *double tandem* trail-a-bike. With that attached to the cargo trike, I am able to comfortably bike with all six children attached to the trike. You can also fit more stuff in your box up front with some children attached to the back. My husband and I also split up the children when we bike together.
6. Be prepared for a crazy amount of attention. Numerous cell phone photos have been taken of our family on the bikes. Some lady stopped her car in the middle of the street to take a photo of me and kids with her ipad. Drivers have come up to me at a red light, noticed who was in the box, and asked, "so where are your other children today?" A homeless man pointed us out and laughed to his buddies. Lots of people will likely ask you about the bike and it can lead to good chats with people in your community. You might become the town oddity and, hopefully, a local inspiration.
7. Go For It! The 3,000 dollars we spent on the cargo bikes has given us so much in return!
Good luck!
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I've tried this. Of course: I'm from the Netherlands. These bikes are quite common around here. I see at least 10 at the local school during drop off en pick up.
I don't know how old your baby is but you need to take extra measures to transport a baby in a bakfiets. It can be done: you need a 'baby schelp' (baby shell). It's a styrofoam infant seat in which you can securely strap your baby for transport. It works like a charm except for that period of time when your baby outgrows it (say 10 - 14 months) and is still not old and sturdy enough to sit on the little bench in the bakfiets by itself. This can be a challenge.
Also, the bigger bakfiets you are talking about (4 kids) are almost always 3-wheels. While the smaller bakfiets (2 kids) are also available in 2 wheels (google: 'bakfiets 2 wielen' for a picture). It is considerably lighter to peddle a 2-wheeler than is is a 3-wheeler so there's something to consider.
You might consider (if you have greater distances to cover) an electrical bakfiets. Of course, these are quite a bit more expensive. However, I can tell you now: they are worth it. And a bakfiets will last for many years and even the most expensive ones are still a truck load cheaper than a car will ever be. Plus: with all the biking you'll never need to pay for a gym subscription ever again!!
There are bakfietsen with covers. A sort of roof over the part where the kids and groceries go. This is great for difficult weather. You might also want to consider that!! Will help to keep the little ones dry!
We are a 1-kid, 1-dog family and we have no car. Biking is the only way for us and we love it.
A cheaper alternative is a bike trailer (similar to the one MMM has for his groceries!). You can get one for around $ 100 (at least, that's what I paid) but there really is only room for 2 kids (or in my case: 1 kid and a dog) and no groceries. It attaches to most any bike and if you get some sturdy saddle bags this might still work.
Good luck!!
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We have no car and I recently bought a taga bike for longer trips and for preschool next year. It fits two kids and a child from six months up can sit in the smaller seat with a booster insert.
http://www.tagabikes.com/
I did find it difficult going uphill but it's much easier now that I've built up my leg muscles and learnt to keep a quicker pace with pedalling. You can also fit one child in a carseat but that's for travelling with the infant by itself and only takes a few brands of carseat.
Another option I looked at was getting a cargo bike and putting one or two seats at the back and another between the legs. Something like this;
http://dutchcargobike.com.au/workcycles-amsterdam/workcycles-fr8/
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We have no car and I recently bought a taga bike for longer trips and for preschool next year. It fits two kids and a child from six months up can sit in the smaller seat with a booster insert.
http://www.tagabikes.com/
I did find it difficult going uphill but it's much easier now that I've built up my leg muscles and learnt to keep a quicker pace with pedalling. You can also fit one child in a carseat but that's for travelling with the infant by itself and only takes a few brands of carseat.
Holy hellfire shit! That bike is so awesome!! I'm having geekout fits right now...
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Danag, thank you so much! I had not even thought to check eBay and my local craigslist wasn't turning up anything. I'll have to start an eBay watch and see what I can find.
On the attention-attracting front, I've thought about that a lot this year because I am living with two blond, blue eyed kids in Japan. They get ridiculous amounts of attention just being themselves here. When we're back home in the Midwest, I'm hoping the attention will be focused on the awesomeness of biking with kids and that we'll start to see many other cargo bikes on the streets and at our city's farmers markets!
Samusugiru, the tagabike is amazing! If we were planning to have a smaller family, I'd definitely go for that!
OneMoreBike, the photo of your lovely ladies and the ducks is adorable. I was looking at the CETMA website and it looks like he custom builds each one. Did the $4000 cost include the Bionx e-assist? That seems like a good deal compared to others. At first I assumed I'd definitely need the electric assist, but in the last month as I've been biking hills here in Japan I've been getting stronger and I can turn the e-assist off most of the time. Plus my two year old is always willing to throw me some invisible "oomph" so I can get up the hill.
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I love the tagabike! I was soo just imagining biking to the mall, and still having a stroller to walk around with :)
Then I remembered I don't go to the mall to walk around/shop anymore... it's now just a free indoor playground for when it's too cold to go play outside. Sigh, consumerism checked.
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Trailer is by far the cheapest option.
No matter what bike you pick, it's incredibly hard to push more than your body weight unless terrain is perfectly level.
Good discussion on a thread I started here:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/anyone-built-a-diy-bakfiets/new/?topicseen#new
For the record, I built up my kids' endurance as quickly as I could. My 4 year old can do 5 miles no problem. My 7 and 8 year olds can do 10 miles easily.
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We have a bakfiets. In a large sunbelt city that is generally considered the example of all that is wrong with transportation in America. It's great!!
Our older kid is now 2.5. When we had him, we basically waited about 11 months before getting back on our bikes. At that point, he was sitting sturdily enough to go in a Bobike mini seat which attaches to the stem just below the handlebars. And his head circumference was just big enough to fit the smallest helmet I could find. The seat was great, we each made a few modifications to our daily bikes and put on the adapters, we could switch the seat back and forth. We got the seat used from a friend. But as he got over 25 pounds it really started to affect the handling. We taught him to keep his hands in his lap but... My frame - sort of a 10 speed/ touring style - especially just wasn't great with that weight distribution.
Then I got pregnant again and it got harder and harder to squeeze my tummy in behind his seat! And, we really did not want to take a whole 'nother year off the bikes, especially when our son loved riding with us so much. So, after about 6 months of scouring Craigslist (national search - shipping can be less of a factor sometimes for a big purchase?), eBay, bike shops, even international sales, we found one about 4 hours away. All told it came to about $1200 plus gas. It is a chinese frame built up by a US bike shop, and the previous owner had installed some U-bolts in the box that work with the carseat LATCH system. Score!! And it has a raincover, integrated generator headlight, and stuff.
So the boy rode on the bench for a few months. Then he got onto a rear seat on my husband's bike and we clipped the infant seat base into the box. Honestly, we just leave the base in there, and for the occasional car trip we use the infant seat feature that allows you to use it without the base. Really looking forward to when the little one can sit on the bench too; then I will be able to carry both the kids at once.
It is pretty easy to ride. Geared well so I can handle about any hill. In fact, first gear is so low I have a hard time starting in it because the bike doesn't move fast enough to stay upright! That's where a trike would have an advantage. Also, it is too long to take on the train; trikes are shorter. But I love love love it. It does handle really well and I feel very comfortable using it in traffic. It isn't the longest box on the market but I will be able to plop both kids and a reasonable amount of cargo in it, plus I have the rear rack.
Was it worth the money? I keep trying to figure that out. Husband also bought a longtail bike which will be good for multiple kids. We could have saved $1000 with a trailer, though, although they make me nervous because they are so low and harder for traffic to see. We also put off replacing our half-dead car for at least another year, so that is a deferred but not eliminated expense. Commute expenses were nil anyway (cheap transit passes through work that we still get), and we are only commuting by bike once or twice a week. It's mostly the weekend excursions and errands that the bikes replace. We did sell off some other stuff to help cover the costs. The biggest benefit is probably to my health and sanity! And, I feel pretty sure that I can resell it down the road for a good price as long as we maintain it well - they are still in very high demand!
I am happy to answer any detailed questions about our experience with it.
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I know this threads about a month old, but have been thinking a lot about these options for next Spring. I watch 4 kids aged 1,2,3,4 so I just can not fit them all in a trailer. It will also be a while before any/all of them would be able to bike on their own. My oldest will be starting kindergarten next year and I would love to be able to ride her to school on something like the Madsen. Then use it for parks, library, groceries etc. with the younger kids or solo. I sometimes go to grocery store just with my double stroller but only works with a very small trip (like some fresh fruits/veggies and a gallon of milk). I even considered pushing my stroller while pulling a wagon for groceries but I tried it around my neighborhood and was pretty straining on my wrists trying to steer each with only one hand.
I guess my question for those who offered further advice is-
1. Could I really pedal hauling all 4 kids? I defintiley cannot afford/justify the cost for the electric assist
2. Can you fit down a sidewalk/skinny bike path with one of these beasts? I live in a pretty unbike friendly suburb and I try to use shoulders and bike lanes as much as possible but some spots I have to use sidewalk (and there are no pedestrians).
I plan on going back to work in 3-4 years and would love/need to extend the life of my 14 year 150K vehicle until that point. Cutting out some of my daily short trips would certainly help this. And I think it just looks super fun.
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I'll take a stab at this but I'm curious to see what other people think about their different cargo bikes.
1. Could I really pedal hauling all 4 kids? I defintiley cannot afford/justify the cost for the electric assist
My 3 kids (6, 4, and 2) are up to about 120 lbs all together, and it's a bit slow starting up but otherwise it's fine. If you're doing it regularly, I'm sure your legs will adjust to the extra mass quite quickly. Having low gears helps a lot with getting started! I used to start up in 3rd gear, but now I find it easier to start up in 2nd and just change into a higher gear that much sooner.
2. Can you fit down a sidewalk/skinny bike path with one of these beasts? I live in a pretty unbike friendly suburb and I try to use shoulders and bike lanes as much as possible but some spots I have to use sidewalk (and there are no pedestrians).
My model is the bakfiets.nl, and the widest part is the handlebars so it fits on the sidewalk just fine. I regularly walk it on the sidewalk along certain streets (short distances, but lots of pedestrians so I walk instead of ride on the sidewalk). It is a bit of a pain turning around on a sidewalk though; I prefer to back up 100' or so after leaving daycare because backing it up is easier than turning it around. It's like a limo! :-)
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For the record, I built up my kids' endurance as quickly as I could. My 4 year old can do 5 miles no problem. My 7 and 8 year olds can do 10 miles easily.
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GoblinChief- how do you bike with your kids? Do you have them on the sidewalk and you in a bike lane next to them? Does your 4 year old follow directions well enough for safety? I'd love to get my oldest (4) riding his bike instead of the trailer. He has the endurance for our trips... Curious how you do it.
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Four year old has done 5+ mile bike rides, no problem. She keeps up with the older ones. They listen.
But, we're NOT in a bicycle friendly city. We rode bikes to our nearest big park and rode around as part of our longest family ride (7+ miles), but the ride back with a tired kid sucked. I picked up a bicycle hookup for the truck, and last bicycle outings have been to parks, where I load the bicycles up, we drive to the park, and ride.
Honestly, the kids are fine. Dealing with honking horns is annoying, and the stress level on the parent makes it not fun. But we were riding recreationally, if we were riding to her pre-school and planning to lock her bicycle up there, I think it would be a different experience.
The kids prefer riding on the sidewalk, which works well also, just slower.
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I'll take a stab at this but I'm curious to see what other people think about their different cargo bikes.
1. Could I really pedal hauling all 4 kids? I defintiley cannot afford/justify the cost for the electric assist
My 3 kids (6, 4, and 2) are up to about 120 lbs all together, and it's a bit slow starting up but otherwise it's fine. If you're doing it regularly, I'm sure your legs will adjust to the extra mass quite quickly. Having low gears helps a lot with getting started! I used to start up in 3rd gear, but now I find it easier to start up in 2nd and just change into a higher gear that much sooner.
2. Can you fit down a sidewalk/skinny bike path with one of these beasts? I live in a pretty unbike friendly suburb and I try to use shoulders and bike lanes as much as possible but some spots I have to use sidewalk (and there are no pedestrians).
My model is the bakfiets.nl, and the widest part is the handlebars so it fits on the sidewalk just fine. I regularly walk it on the sidewalk along certain streets (short distances, but lots of pedestrians so I walk instead of ride on the sidewalk). It is a bit of a pain turning around on a sidewalk though; I prefer to back up 100' or so after leaving daycare because backing it up is easier than turning it around. It's like a limo! :-)
Cool, thanks for the info. The 4 kids combined are about 150 pounds now, but who knows what they will be by Spring. Although I guess with all them in various stages of pre-school and then my daughter starting Kindergarten next September it would only be occasional that I would have all four. More often 2-3. Have to really think about it and see how much gas/wear and tear on car I would have to save to try and justify a $2,000 purchase. I guess it's also fun/good exercise but still a lot of dough.
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Have you looked at a Yuba? I haven't seen it mentioned but I first discovered the Mundo on these forums, and I think the hubs and I will get one soon. We have a 1 and a 2 year old, hoping to have one more. I like the versatility as far as configuring the kids and also plenty of room for cargo. The accessories can add up. They are a little less conspicuous than the bakfiets too, whether that's a plus or a minus depends on your perspective. I like the idea that when they're a little older and I'm comfortable that they will stay put reliably, they can hop on the board and just ride. If friends are comfortable with it, this would be a fun and easy way to be able to carry around a couple of extra kids, or even an adult or two! You can also connect a trailer - I'm considering creating a shock absorbent nest with carseat in a trailer for our next baby so we don't have to take an entire year off of biking. The Mundo is about $1300 brand new, so a bit more affordable than the bakfiets. I am considering buying an e-assist kit, Yuba bikes advertise that they have a space to put that in. They also sell bikes already e-outfitted but they are really expensive. I think I'll buy the bike and ride it around for a while and see how I do as my kids get older and how we use it.
Also, FYI, I was in my local bike shop yesterday talking to them about the Mundo and they said that since this is a slow time of year they are happy to make deals on their floor models, just to bring in some revenues.
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Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I finally registered after a year of lurking. I'll post our experiences here in case anyone is looking for a cargo bike for 2015.
I converted my mountain bike to an xtracycle about 6 years ago. Love it. We have a 2 year old now, I hope to put her on the back soon, using the cool bars that you can get plus a stoker bar.
Last spring, when she was 1, we purchased a Babboe city cargo bike. We got it from Varsity Bike in Minneapolis. We love it. We used it all summer, and our daughter loves riding in it. It's heavy, as most box bikes seem to be. I've pedaled her in it, her plus another toddler, her plus our neighbor who probably weighs 150lbs. I even pedaled it 3 blocks with my wife holding a wood pallet (converted into a vertical pallet garden). Only upgrade we made was the optional rain cover and swapping out the stock saddle to a Brooks. There is an optional second bench that can be installed for carrying 4 kids.
I highly recommend the cargo bike lifestyle, we love it and get questions wherever we go.
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@jb14 - Funny you brought it up even though its an old thread. I have been debating reviving it myself. The Babboe looks nice but even MORE expensive than the Madsen I have been viewing/dreaming/researching. Glad to hear you like the lifestyle though. I really really want one; problem is I do not NEED one and have a large debt emergency right now
@yoga mama - I know you responded forever ago, I initially looked at the Yuba but I do not think my young niece would do very well on that back seat/bench and if I installed the normal kid seat on it the other kids could not fit. Also I think 3 kids is the max and I will have 4 quite often.
Basically I want to ride my daughter to and from kindergarten on one of these. But I will typically have my younger daughter and niece with me, then in the afternoons my nephew as well. It's only .75 miles so in theory I could try to walk but just think it would be too slow and don't want my daughter tired/arguing constantly and me just wimping out and taking car. Of course she could ride the bus....but she's so little ): Also the afternoons she would have a 25-30 min ride as she would be the last stop on a long loop (same one I rode as a kid for 11 years LOL).
Gonna try the bike/walk route Sunday and see how long it takes me and how safe/feasible it is. She would not start until September; but if I was going to spend the money I would rather get it sooner than later and enjoy this Spring and Summer also.
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@longwaytogo the madden looks nice, but I have to say how awesome it is to have the kid in front of you. It's so much easier to keep an eye on what they are tossing over the side (shoes, socks, cups, stuffed animals, the list goes on!) as well as being able to talk with them about what you see on the ride.
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Yeah I think having them in the front would be cool, I have read that elsewhere also.
BUT at $2,500 plus the second bench I would need $150 it would be close to $800 over the $1,875 Madsen. Although it looks like they do have a Philadelphia dealer so maybe I could save the $200 shipping vs the Madsen coming from Utah. Still a good bit more though, and of course driving to Philly myself is not free either.
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Either one beats a trailer!
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JB14, believe it or not, you are the third person I know to be riding a Babboe around the twin cities. (unless, I suppose, you happen to be one of the first two incognito on the boards). I've heard it is a great bike, but indeed quite heavy. I've ridden all forms of long cargo bikes and still vote for the bakfiets, if you ride a lot it is worth every penny. That said, I happen to have a Metrofiets for sale at a huge discount in Denver right now, any takers? (electric is a possibility!)
-onemorebike
Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I finally registered after a year of lurking. I'll post our experiences here in case anyone is looking for a cargo bike for 2015.
I converted my mountain bike to an xtracycle about 6 years ago. Love it. We have a 2 year old now, I hope to put her on the back soon, using the cool bars that you can get plus a stoker bar.
Last spring, when she was 1, we purchased a Babboe city cargo bike. We got it from Varsity Bike in Minneapolis. We love it. We used it all summer, and our daughter loves riding in it. It's heavy, as most box bikes seem to be. I've pedaled her in it, her plus another toddler, her plus our neighbor who probably weighs 150lbs. I even pedaled it 3 blocks with my wife holding a wood pallet (converted into a vertical pallet garden). Only upgrade we made was the optional rain cover and swapping out the stock saddle to a Brooks. There is an optional second bench that can be installed for carrying 4 kids.
I highly recommend the cargo bike lifestyle, we love it and get questions wherever we go.
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Onemorebike, I must be #3 then! I'd love a bakfiets someday, we just went with the Babboe due to local availability and lower price. I've seen one bakfiets downtown, and spoke to the rider. I think he said he got it in Chicago.
I'm also intrigued by the Larry vs Harry long bikes. I wonder if I could get one back on the airplane on one of our trips to DK. We have friends who live there.
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They are a fun bike for certain! You may start to see me around town, we will be moving to Minneapolis in about three weeks. White CETMA bakfiets, two littles girls and usually one wonderful wife nearby. Say hi!
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We will look for you! We live in East Isles, so if you're biking around any of the lakes, you might see us, or on the Greenway, which is located at the end of our block :)
Where will you be moving?
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We close next month on a place about 44th south and 44th east in south mpls, sounds close by?
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it's bikeable :)
Actually, you could have a nice leisurely day loop from there. Jump on Minnehaha pkway, take that up to Lake Harriet, north to Lake Calhoun, catch the Greenway back east (stopping at ALDI on Hiawatha and the Greenway for some non-facepunch groceries), then take the Hiawatha trail back home. Nice area over there with Minehaha falls, and the Highland Park neighborhood across the river. West River Road by your house is one of my favorite places in the fall to see the leaves changing.
Welcome to Minneapolis!
PS- How much are you selling the Metrofiets for? My neighbor wants a cargo bike, think you could throw it in the moving van and deliver it?
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jb14,
Actually, that leisurely loop (along with the other bike related amenities) were top of the list in reasons to buy in that hood. We moved from Denver to a first ring suburb about three years ago and I absolutely hate what it has done for our bikeability.
Unfortunately, I'm trying to skim back my current bike collection for the move (along with many of the other belongings in our house) so packing a metrofiets isn't in the cards. :)
Look forward to seeing you on the road!
-onemorebike
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I'm also intrigued by the Larry vs Harry long bikes.
Calhoun Cycles might sell them? I saw they have some of their parts on their website (not the whole bike, though).
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So I biked my potential route to daughters future school. 8 minutes, granted this was a Sunday morning with No traffic and catching 2 of the 3 lights. But the lights will slow me down in a car too. Even if it takes 10-12 mins if I catch a red light and with the extra weight I think it would be pretty fun. Plus I would avoid the 50+ car lineup of parents in cars so it would probably make up the time.
Madsen has a special until midnight for $150 off the black or orange bikes. I wanted the orange anyway; really tempted to pull the trigger on it tonight! With tax and shipping it would be right at $2,000.00. Seems crazy for a bike, but beats a used car and no insurance/ gas/ registration.
Just can't decide if I will get enough value/enjoyment out of it to justify the cost with my current debt situation.