Failing at "Oh Crap" potty training?

[littlebird]

We're on day 5 of potty training with our 23 month old daughter, following the "Oh Crap" method from the book. It is... not going well. This is actually our second attempt as we tried back in early January and it was a disaster. I decided she just wasn't ready then, but she seemed so ready this time and I think we might be failing again :-(. Admittedly it's going better than the first time, but I had hoped to be further along by day 5.

We are still having more misses than successes. Mostly it seems like she just won't sit long enough to actually pee. I finally broke down and started letting her watch 5 minutes of sesame street on the tablet to get her to sit, but now I think she's crying wolf just to watch some TV. She gets very little screen time normally.

Day 5 of not leaving the house, brutally cold outside, very active toddler. She's going crazy.

I guess I'm looking for advice/commiseration. Anyone else used this method and come out the other side?

[littlebird]

Thanks meerkat. I'm glad we're not the only ones for whom this wasn't an instant success. It's way harder than I expected it to be!

[Jen]

I've used that method with both my kids and it worked extremely well.  However, it took different amounts of time to work.  My first kid did really well after about 2 days, but my daughter took closer to 5 days before I felt like we were on the right track.  I was kind of stressing out toward the end of those 5 days!  If you want advice, I would go back to the naked method until you feel like you are getting some wins.  I.e., don't rush the getting dressed part.  At a minimum, let them wear a T-shirt but not one that covers up their bottom so you can see any signals. 

I highly recommend sticking with it if you can.  My kids both potty trained right around age 2, nights and naps included.  It was a lot of work, but they are 5 and 3 now, and so many of their friends (both ages!) still have accidents, trouble going all night, etc.  I feel like this is one area we really nailed.  I wish there was a book like this for every kid-related topic....

[TVRodriguez]

I'm a few years removed from potty training, but for each of my 3 kids, they took at their own pace in their own time.  My suggestion to you is to consider easing up and let it happen when it happens.

Child #1:  We left him nearly naked at home from about 18 months on, and he used the toilet/potty/bushes outside pretty often, with some accidents, but we used diapers out of the house and at night until probably he was about 2 1/2.  Kept nighttime diapers for a few years longer.

Child #2:  She REFUSED to use the toilet until about a month after turning 3, despite me trying to start the process a few times.  One random Thursday afternoon, she took off the diaper, sat on the toilet and peed, and that was the last diaper she wore during the day.  I kept the diaper on her at night for a little longer until I was sure she would stay dry at night.

Child #3:  Honestly, I forget.  By then I was much more relaxed and figured it would happen in due time, which it did.

Good luck, and it will happen eventually.

[Sugaree]

They'll do it when they're ready.  At least that's what my kid's pediatrician said.  Something about how no kid ever goes to college wearing diapers... 

The only real issue is that day care claimed they "couldn't" move him up into the next class until he was trained (they moved up untrained kids before and after him, so I'm not sure what the issue was).  The director even asked if I was "even trying" to train him at home.  Because I want to do diaper laundry for the rest of my life, right?  A few weeks after he turned three he decided that he was ready (and wanted to move up with his friends) so he started using the toilet.  It was seriously like a switch had been flipped.  I think he might have had two, maybe three, accidents during the day and that was it.  Night was a little trickier for him, but we all survived.

[littlebird]

After my angsty morning we actually had some successes this afternoon. I really hope we've turned a corner now. Maybe day 5 is going to be our day.

[mudstache]

I have three Oh Crap graduates, and, to me, it sounds like you're *right there* at the brink of success!  If she's gaming the system, she understands the system, which means it's only a matter of time until the "aha!" moment happens.  Hopefully.  Good luck, and congratulations on sticking it out for this long already! 

[LaineyAZ]

As a grandma of a 2 year old, I'm wondering what rewards did you offer for success?  I've heard of stickers, M&Ms, mini marshmallows, etc. 
I could also imagine that being told that you won't be in the same class as your little pre-school friends would be a motivator.

[littlebird]

This method doesn't offer rewards other than prodigious praise. So I've given lots of praise! I'm not keen on food rewards since I really only want her to eat when she's hungry. I'm giving us until Sunday and if we're still not progressing I'll have to reevaluate our method.

I don't think she'll be going to preschool since I stay home with her and it costs about $10k a year around here. That's a deal compared to the $25k we were paying for infant care, but not really affordable since I quit working. I'm just thankful I'm not using vacation days for this! That would add insult to injury.

[BeanCounter]

I'll give a little different perspective-
For our two boys we had a babysitter who had 42 years of experience with infants and toddlers. She told us before we even hired her that she had her method of potty training and it had worked for 42 years and she wouldn't consider any other way. So we did it her way. She believed that potty training needed to start earlier rather than later but took a longer process.
-at 18 months of age she had us putting the boys on the little potty as we drew their bathwater at night. Just have them sit their while the water ran naked. Within a couple days we put them on there and they peed. We showed them "look you went on the potty like a big kid" and we flushed it. We did this until they could go before bath as soon as they sat down. you can tell when they are starting to figure out that they can control it.
-Once they seemed to be able to "go" when they sat down, she put them in underwear during the day and set a timer for them to try and sit every 30-40 minutes. They got a sticker if they went. If they had an accident during the day they just got new underwear, no big deal. They still wore a diaper at nap and at night.
It didn't take long for them to be able to go with a reminder. At 2 years old both of our boys wore underwear during the day. We did have to remind them to take potty breaks. They were night trained at 3 and 3.5. Once they started waking up dry or "warm" we knew they could hold it through the night and switched them to underwear.
So using this method you start really young and for about a whole year you are still the one remembering to take them to the potty and still using diapers at night. But it completely eliminates the fight over potty training. They just do it, because that's what big people do and that's all. There are no parties, no excitement or shame around it. It just is.

[FLBiker]

We tried potty training around that age and it didn't really work.  Then we did it again at like 2.5 or so.  Her day care teacher thought she was ready.  The first two days she had tons of accidents, and since then (she's almost 4) she's been darn near perfect.  It just clicked that third day.  So, personally, I'd say try again in a few months (or if she shows interest).  My wife potty trained really early (like 19 / 20 months).  Her parents just put out a potty, showed her how it worked, and a few days later she just started using it.  Unfortunately, our daughter took after me. :)

[Slow&Steady]

We did "Oh Crap" potty training with our now (almost) 5 year old right after she turned 2.  If I remember correctly she was naked for close to 5 days before we did a shirt/dress with nothing under.  I also vaguely remember thinking we were failing and after reading some of the sections of the book again at night we determined that she WAS giving signals but myself or my husband just wasn't seeing them.  Once we decided that it was us that wasn't getting it, not her, we were able to keep progressing.  She did have accidents somewhat regularly for a while after while at daycare, maybe like 1-2 a week for a month or two.  Sorry my memory isn't clearer on this anymore.  I am sure it will all come rushing back in about a year when we try to start with baby #2.

[TVRodriguez]

I looked up that "Oh Crap" book after seeing this thread, and I guess i just disagree with the author (based solely on the online reviews that give summaries of the book).  I'm coming back to repeat that potty training is something that I really wouldn't stress about.  Do it at the pace that works for your family.  I don't believe that there is a magic window.

DH's mom trained all her kids super early (under a year), and SIL followed her lead and had her kids trained before they were walking.  Seriously, they crawled to the potty on their own!  While that really impressed me, I got to see some of these kids growing up and becoming adults (or met them as adults).  They were normal people.  Their early potty training didn't make a huge impact on the rest of their lives. 

The lesson I took from that was not to make a huge deal out of it because, barring special needs, pretty much everyone gets there at some point and it won't matter in 5 years whether you made it happen at 9 months or at 4 years old.

[I'm a red panda]

As a mother of a 23 month old who really isn't interested, except because it lets her touch the toilet paper roll while she sits there, I'd say under 2 is still very young.  Many kids don't train until well after 3.  I'd revist when she's ready.

[Slow&Steady]

....Their early potty training didn't make a huge impact on the rest of their lives. 

I believe you are probably completely correct, early potty training had almost zero impact on the kid's life.  They are neither extra special nor extra traumatized by it, which is why if it will have an impact on the parent's life you should absolutely go for potty training "early"!  I know for my family not having diapers anymore was HUGE.  No more diaper laundry (if you use cloth), or stopping to buy some (if you use disposable), no more changing a wet/stinky butt, no more stinky trash/laundry in the house, no more "oh no, the diaper bag doesn't have any diapers in it", no more calls from the daycare because they forgot to tell you that they ran out of diapers/wipes, the list goes on.  Sometimes what we decide to do as parents will have little long term impact on the child but will have an immediate impact on the crap that is already on our plate, so we make decisions that help us as parents.

I do not believe that potty training at 2 is early, I personally feel it is in the window of completely average and average is not negative.

[HamsterStache]

Our oldest was having issues with not telling us when he had to go, so having accidents and not seeming to care about it. Making him wear pullups made him just care less. What finally helped was having him wear underwear with a pullup over top. He didn't want the feeling of getting wet underwear, and didn't like the extra bulk either, so with the promise that he kept everything dry for a week, we successfully went to just undies.

[cats]

We did "Oh Crap" over a 4-day weekend with our 2.5 yr old.  The weather was really nice, so we did start going outside on day 2, but...we also definitely still had an accident on that 4th day.  Day 5 was back to daycare and IIRC there was one accident there also, and a couple more during the first week, but since then daytime accidents have been very rare (nighttime has taken a little more work).  I don't think the method really results in a perfectly potty-trained kid after one long weekend, but for us it was potty trained "enough" to feel we could stop using diapers.  A friend did it also (starting around age 2.5) and said it really took about a year for her son to get to the point where he would realize by himself that he needed to pee in time to get to the toilet, so they had a long period of having to remind him constantly and also having accidents semi-regularly.  I know another woman who had her kid initially try it around age 2 and it worked "kind of, but not really" and they had to try again a bit later.  So while it's a good method, it's definitely not foolproof (probably true of any method, really).

[I'm a red panda]

I do not believe that potty training at 2 is early, I personally feel it is in the window of completely average and average is not negative.

The problem with "at age 2" is that the year of a 2-year old's life is a huge developmental window.

There is a giant difference between 23 months (not yet 2, as it the case of the OP), 30 months, and 35 months (still 2...)
Really, they are potty training a 1-year old, not a 2-year old, just yet.

[BeanCounter]

My experience is that the longer you wait the bigger the fight it is. And pull ups are the devil. Never use them.

[Slow&Steady]

I do not believe that potty training at 2 is early, I personally feel it is in the window of completely average and average is not negative.

The problem with "at age 2" is that the year of a 2-year old's life is a huge developmental window.

There is a giant difference between 23 months (not yet 2, as it the case of the OP), 30 months, and 35 months (still 2...)
Really, they are potty training a 1-year old, not a 2-year old, just yet.

I do feel that every kid is different and that what is appropriate for that kid will not be the same as what is appropriate for another kid.  I said I believe that potty training at 2 is in the window of average, I also believe that the window is really pretty big.  I believe that my 1st would have potty trained just fine at 1.5 years old but her daycare provider was not setup or prepared to deal with a potty training kid so we waited until she moved to a different daycare at 2, I know lots of parents wait for longer.  I still believe that 2 is complete within the window for potty training.

There are also a tremendous amount of developmental changes between 12 months and 24 months.  You will pretty much never be able to convince me that a 23 month old (without developmental delays) is more like a 1 year old than a 2 year old.

[kimmarg]

My experience is that the longer you wait the bigger the fight it is. And pull ups are the devil. Never use them.

I think this whole thread proves there are as many ways as there are parents and kids. Personally I've found Pull-ups super useful, mainly in 2 scenarios. 1.)out of the house when we can't go 'now!' For example on the airplane to grandmas house 2) night time. My 95th percentile 3 year old wears 4T-5T pulls ups at night because they actually fit and size 6 diapers don't.  Dry all day no problem but sleeps like a log for 12 hours at night and can't hold it that long. I'd much rather buy some pull ups that skip the 12 hours sleep for both of our sakes. Pediatrician basically said "they'll get there eventually on their own, let 'em sleep"

[jpdx]

You're not alone. We tried for several weeks and failed as well, and will try again later.

Our pediatrician thought we were misguided in trying so early at 24 months.

[I'm a red panda]

I do not believe that potty training at 2 is early, I personally feel it is in the window of completely average and average is not negative.

The problem with "at age 2" is that the year of a 2-year old's life is a huge developmental window.

There is a giant difference between 23 months (not yet 2, as it the case of the OP), 30 months, and 35 months (still 2...)
Really, they are potty training a 1-year old, not a 2-year old, just yet.

I do feel that every kid is different and that what is appropriate for that kid will not be the same as what is appropriate for another kid.  I said I believe that potty training at 2 is in the window of average, I also believe that the window is really pretty big.  I believe that my 1st would have potty trained just fine at 1.5 years old but her daycare provider was not setup or prepared to deal with a potty training kid so we waited until she moved to a different daycare at 2, I know lots of parents wait for longer.  I still believe that 2 is complete within the window for potty training.

There are also a tremendous amount of developmental changes between 12 months and 24 months.  You will pretty much never be able to convince me that a 23 month old (without developmental delays) is more like a 1 year old than a 2 year old.

Well of course a 23 month old is more like a 2 year old than a new one year old. But whether it's still in the realm of normal, 23 months is very early for toilet training.

Most 23 month olds who are trained seem to be doing EC, which is really parent training. The ones who can do it on their own are very advanced in this area.

[littlebird]

I trained before I was two and I'm told that it used to be common. Now training closer to 3 seems more common and I'm not really sure why. I've heard about huge battles with kids who are 3+ and I want to avoid that. Also diapers are expensive and terrible for the environment. I'm pretty committed to doing it now, it's just taking a lot longer than I hoped it would.

[cats]

I trained before I was two and I'm told that it used to be common. Now training closer to 3 seems more common and I'm not really sure why. I've heard about huge battles with kids who are 3+ and I want to avoid that. Also diapers are expensive and terrible for the environment. I'm pretty committed to doing it now, it's just taking a lot longer than I hoped it would.

I think earlier training used to be more common because 1) disposable diapers were less of a thing and (IMO) cloth gives the parents a very strong incentive to train compared to disposables, and 2) two parents working FT used not to be the norm, which means the parents had more energy to put into something like potty training.  I was allegedly trained around by around 18 months, but my mom was a SAHM and I would have been her only kid at the time, so she would have had time to focus pretty closely on whatever cues I was giving off about needing to go. In contrast, our daycare claimed to do potty training but all they really did was wait until the kid spontaneously started having dry diapers...if you wait for that it's going to be a long while.  I have seen pieces by one pediatrician saying that forcing potty training too early can cause issues with constipation or UTIs, which I guess would be a good reason not to push it, but that definitely hasn't been a problem for us and our pediatrician's office suggested at the 2-year checkup that 2 is a great time to consider potty training.

[Chrissy]

The school we attended at the time did the method described by BeanCounter.  They started ~15months.  Worked great for all the kids.  HOWEVER, our daughter is now 3, and, if she's engrossed in something, we still have to remind her, and sometimes even force her, or she will have the occasional accident.

We use pull-ups for night or going out, still, but not naps.  She asks to use the potty when we're out.  We're noticing she wakes up dry or "warm" 3-4x per week.

It's just a LONG process no matter how you do it.

[sjc0816]

I'm not completely understanding the Oh Crap model....are they naked the whole time? We didn't do naked because then they can't feel the discomfort of having accidents...which is important imo. We potty trained both of our boys at 2.5 the exact same way and it worked for both of them within 3-4 days.

Here is what we did. We said, "tomorrow, we are done with diapers and we're going to potty on the toilet." The next day, we dressed them in regular clothes and underwear. We did not leave the house until the 4th day. We took them potty about every 45-60 minutes and sometimes they went sometimes they didn't on that first day. About half of their potties were accidents in their undies. They did not like that feeling. I kept a very close eye on them....looking for them doing a dance (sure fire sign lol), grabbing their crotch or butt.

The next day, same deal.....but we were at about 30% accidents. The third day my older son had maybe one accident and younger son had none. That was it. We used pull-ups at night for 3 months with my older son. He wet at night every night until we took the pull ups away. Then immediately, no more night accidents. So with younger son, we never used a pull-up and he never had a night accident.

I don't know why it was so easy for them....my older son was a VERY high maintenance baby and toddler so we joke that God was giving us a break. I do think that being very matter-of-fact with them helped. There wasn't any "do you want to sit on the potty?"......or "do you want to be a big boy?" type of discussions. It was "tomorrow is the day"....and that was it.

[CarolinaGirl]

What seemed to work best for our kids is to put them in regular underwear and then put plastic training underwear on OVER the regular underwear.  They DO NOT like the feeling of the pee/poop on them and the training underwear prevents the ‘load’ from getting on your floor, etc. 

We delayed it with our first kid and daycare really pushed us that he WAS ready and HAD been ready.  The issue had been us.  LOL!  He was around 2.5 yrs old and literally conquered it in a week.  Our next kid was peeing in the big toilet before he was even 10 months old!!!  (He was walking unassisted when he turned 8 months old so sitting on a big toilet was no big deal to him). Of course once he figured out that was what we wanted him to do...he then went on strike for a year.  With us both working full time we let it ride for a while and then instigated the cotton underwear with plastic underwear on top.  He’s still a VERY hardheaded obstinate kid to this day.  :)

[cats]

@sjc0816 initially the kid is naked, but it's not "naked until potty trained".  An "ideal" 3-4 days with the OC method might look like:

Day 1: Naked, at home
Day 2: Clothes but no underwear, at home or some very short outings (we did things like take a walk around the block)
Day 3: Clothes, no underwear, longer outings
Day 4: Normal routine, still with no underwear

The author advises going naked initially as she says clothes and especially underwear can give a similar feeling to a diaper, and also that getting clothes on/off is initially a bit of extra time that a kid might not have. So a day with no clothes allows to focus just on nailing recognizing the urge to pee/poop...THEN you start to work on getting clothes off when the urge strikes.  She actually recommends going commando for up to a month.

[lazy-saver]

Day 5 of not leaving the house, brutally cold outside, very active toddler. She's going crazy.

I guess I'm looking for advice/commiseration. Anyone else used this method and come out the other side?

We tried it at 25 months and it kind of worked and kind of didn't. Different problems than you (he's always gone on the potty if he was on at the right time, but rarely initiate and never showed any signals) but what saved our sanity when we were stuck in "this is going too well to give up but we can't go out with a kid having this many accidents" was thick cloth training pants (we have blueberry brand) and a timer. They're absolutely not diapers and for us didn't increase accidents, but then he got wet underwear and tiny wet spots on his pants instead of a puddle. Then the same potty training situation magically turned into "well it's an improvement over diapers and he's still working in it". (Still there six months later but he is getting better and I'm glad to have stopped dealing with daytime diapers and according to this thread many kids still haven't started training at this age.)

[BeanCounter]

Day 5 of not leaving the house, brutally cold outside, very active toddler. She's going crazy.

I guess I'm looking for advice/commiseration. Anyone else used this method and come out the other side?

We tried it at 25 months and it kind of worked and kind of didn't. Different problems than you (he's always gone on the potty if he was on at the right time, but rarely initiate and never showed any signals) but what saved our sanity when we were stuck in "this is going too well to give up but we can't go out with a kid having this many accidents" was thick cloth training pants (we have blueberry brand) and a timer. They're absolutely not diapers and for us didn't increase accidents, but then he got wet underwear and tiny wet spots on his pants instead of a puddle. Then the same potty training situation magically turned into "well it's an improvement over diapers and he's still working in it". (Still there six months later but he is getting better and I'm glad to have stopped dealing with daytime diapers and according to this thread many kids still haven't started training at this age.)

Yes!! This. Training pants and a timer. Like I posted above, my kids trained early and by that I mean we as parents (and the babysitter) were trained. Which is annoying to have to remember to take someone else to the bathroom every hour but it has it's up sides-
 -no daytime diapers or confusing pull ups
 -no fight over potty training. My kids never refused it. We never had to stop and start because they "weren't ready" (whatever that means). We didn't have to do rewards or potty dances or anything. To them it was just what you do because "diapers are for babies".

And I guess that's where I feel strongly. Once you decide you're potty training. Whatever time and age works for your family. I really think it's important to put the diapers away during the day and don't go backward. And don't use pull ups because they are really just a diaper, the child can't feel that they are wet. Explain to your kid that you are not a baby anymore, you can walk, run, jump, and talk, so you don't need a diaper during the day. We're done. And then do the work to use the timer and remind them and be willing to do the laundry. For us this meant there was a time where we couldn't do long outings that didn't have a bathroom. But one of the key things to this method is that you start the potty time before bath so you can watch them learn to that they have control over going. Once they can sit on that little potty and "turn it on", it's go time baby.
All kids are different, but if I had waited until I thought my first child was "ready", he would have never done anything ever. He'd probably still be nursing (he's 10 now).