NYC Childcare Poll - What would you choose?

[Steeze]

We live in NYC - childcare is outrageously expensive. We have one (our first) on the way and are assessing our options.
Childcare will mean a significant reduction in our ability to save. We are also wanting mandarin exposure as much and as often as possible as fluency in both languages is important to our family.

I figure the first 6-9 months are pretty well covered between her leave, my leave, her parents, my parents. After that its DW works from home with a 9-month old assuming her office isn't back up and running due to Covid. I am in construction and still go to the office or job sites every day. Eventually though, and perhaps immediately, the WFH with a 9-month old situation isn't going to work out.

Financial Background - we make about $200k before tax, spend around 45k, save about $120k, and have about $35k taxes each year. We max out the 401ks & IRAs, put $3500/mo in taxable, $200/mo in a 529, and $500/mo in savings account. 33 y.o., have 300k saved and our 1-br condo (co-op) is paid for.

DW's benefits are crazy good - our health insurance doesn't cost us much, she has 5 months maternity leave at full salary, 4 weeks vacation, and can take time off for doctors visits / personal care. If she stayed home health insurance through my work would be $1000/mo and isn't very good. I also get a 3 month leave (at 40% salary) and have 3 weeks vacation time.

For clarification:

Local Home Care - mostly Spanish speaking women with 6 kids / infants with dubious credentials. Some good, some bad.

Standard Day Care - range of options with limited availability, some better than others.

Nanny Share - you send your kid to someone else's house for a 2-for-1.5 discount.

Fancy Day Care - Mandarin immersion / Montessori, great facilities, less kids per adult, crazy expensive.

Private Nanny - Hire a Chinese grandma to come hang out at the house for 8-10 hrs/day at $15/hr (some cleaning / cooking included)

SAHP - DW Stays home, gives up the corporate life (she doesn’t love working, but not ready to give up career)

Other: (Let me know what I am missing!?)

Thanks for the thoughts!

[RFAAOATB]

Go for the private nanny.  You got the money to cover it, and having her come to you instead of you adding another layer of transportation planning will really add to the convenience.

[Dee18]

I would do the private nanny initially and switch to the fancy daycare when child is 2.5 or 3.

[Dictionary Time]

The SAHM cost isn’t really just the cost of the lost salary and benefits, it’s also the opportunity cost to her career.

[Steeze]

I would do the private nanny initially and switch to the fancy daycare when child is 2.5 or 3.

Not a bad thought - fancy day care drops to $2500/mo at 3 y.o.

There is also the citywide 3-k for all program that was supposed to roll out fall 2020 - a more or less free program that gets you into the public school program at 3 years old. Our local public school is decent by NYC standards - but not sure what the availability is like.

Certainly wouldn’t be 4:1 children to adults like the fancy daycare, probably would be more like 12:1. Hours would be tough too - 830-230, not sure how to work that out. Maybe pair that with an after school Chinese class - but transportation at 230 doesn’t seem possible.

[Steeze]

The SAHM cost isn’t really just the cost of the lost salary and benefits, it’s also the opportunity cost to her career.

Fair point - she is starting to pick up some momentum too, so this option isn’t great. It would push back our FI date considerably.

[charis]

I would go for good nanny share if it's convenient and a decent savings over private, then switch to prek if you like the program.

[gatortator]

there is always.  Sahp-- you stay home and DW with great momentum and benefits still works.   why did you choose not to include this in the list?

[Luz]

The private nanny seems to be the way to go if Mandarin fluency is important to you. I've heard mixed reviews of language immersion programs, since the kids sometimes speak English to each other. But I think that depends on the program.

[Steeze]

there is always.  Sahp-- you stay home and DW with great momentum and benefits still works.   why did you choose not to include this in the list?

Fair question - mostly not interested in sacrificing the income at this point. I’m at a good place in my career, salary is high for my field, job is getting easier and less time consuming, I like what I do, have a good reputation, and have gotten good at it. I make about 65% of our income, so it would be a major setback FIRE wise. Not impossible though, but we wouldn’t save a dime.

If she was a SAHP we could still max (1) 401k and (2) IRAs - which isn’t going to get us there very fast, but would get us there eventually. It is the setback in her career that I worry about - she has certain goals that I want to make sure she has the opportunity to achieve.

For me - I would hire a private nanny before I was a SAHP. I do want to be a SAHP, but not for another 9 years! Post-Covid I could probably work out 1-2 days of work at home time + a nanny to make it work.

Just not sure that the costs of that are justified- seems so crazy to spend that money, it is basically my wife’s entire take home pay after taxes, insurance, and 401k.

[mountainmama]

I'd consider the nanny-share. Partially because having the child in a different location than your home makes wfh so much easier. But also because it gives a little socialization for the baby.

[Sibley]

For an infant, loving care is most important, and as they get older, they need to explore/play. Don't worry about academics yet.  Honestly, that local day care might be just fine for the first few years.

[Chrissy]

Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale NANNIES F*CKING SUCK.  We are $200k/yr, a 2yr old and 4yr old.  Four-year-old was in a nanny share with her cousin for a year, from 6mo to 18mo.  We commuted to them, an 11min walk which sucked in winter.  We went through four experienced nannies (with excellent references) in that time.  We paid each person $17/hr, agreed to pay for 50-hr/wk regardless (usually kept it to 40-45), no other duties required, 15 days vacation, unlimited sick time, and Christmas bonus which is a week of pay the first year and two weeks pay after that.  One cried about the strain of the job, one came into my bedroom when I was WFH and complained about the pay, each took sick time right and left, and we had to fire one after 3 weeks when, after all the other problems with her, she no-call/no-showed.

Fortunately, my parents or I were able to fill in for every absence for free.  Who will cover for your nanny?

We put the our eldest in the Montessori daycare behind our apartment, and she loved it.  No commute!  It's open 6a-6:30p, $830/wk  EDIT:  every 2 weeks (so $415/wk).  Sibling discount is 10%.  Closed Christmas Day, Thanksgiving, and Fourth of July.  When our now-2-year-old was 6mo, we just put her straight into infant daycare.  They adored her and we had a great experience.  She's always been developmentally ahead, so I take that to mean they did things right.  Last year, our girls were there Christmas Eve day with a bunch of other kids... I wrapped all the presents; it was awesome.

My sister and her husband (also $200k/yr, also a 2 yr old & 4 yr old) stuck with the nanny model of childcare.  She retained the last nanny, and gave her a raise to $18/hr.  The woman had endless family emergencies and illness, took WAY more vacation than was allotted, quarantined for 5 weeks at the beginning of Covid (until my sister said they would have to stop paying her), and asked to work 4 days/wk when she returned.  Oh, and my 4-year-old nephew (3 yrs old at the time) was in preschool 3 mornings a week all last school year, but the nanny refused to pick him up, so my parents had to do it.

Because the nanny was absent so often, my sister couldn't keep asking my parents to cover, so she hired last-minute nannies from a service she had on retainer.  It was big money, and then, of course, she was also paying her regular nanny on those days.  We figured she spent $8k-10k on coverage last year.

So think it through:  coverage, boundaries, paying employer-side taxes or risking the consequences, having to fire and possibly hire again (and again and again).  It just wasn't worth it for us.

[Steeze]

@Chrissy that sounds awful! Thanks for that - that is the first negative story I heard. I was a nanny during the summers during college and like the idea, but your story sounds so real! Hah - maybe the daycare option isn’t so crazy, at least it is consistent like you say.

$830 a week is steep!! Those hours are great though. Still trying to wrap my mind around $40k/yr x 4 years... I was thinking $250k total for the kid through high school!! Blowing a big portion of my kid budget in the first four years!!

Need to make more money $&@!

[Chrissy]

Oh shit!  It's every TWO weeks.  Sorry.  I will make an edit.  It's $20k/yr for one kid, and a little under $40k/yr for two kids.

[ctuser1]

We are in CT, and our kids are older now (10 and 12).

DW didn't want to leave kids with anyone other than family. So we covered their childcare when they were infants by me doing WFH part of the week, DW juggling her school and work schedules to be as weekend/off-hour as possible, and filling the gaps with our parents helping out. It was very stressful to do that - but we did it anyway since DW insisted on it.

Now, we were unusual in how we managed this. I have gazillions of colleagues who faced the same issues and came to different solutions. Two other colleagues (they happen to be immigrants - one from China and another India) both hired "private nannies". These are mostly older immigrant women with limited English (I'd consider it a positive to have the kids grow up learning another language other than English, to counterbalance your communication frustration with your nanny).

I pinged the Indian colleague and asked her after seeing this thread. She hired a Bangladeshi woman from Jackson Heights and paid her $1600/month. This was long time ago. So you may need to pay more now.

The Private Nanny option would be my second preference had we not been able to manage things by ourselves + help from family. The colleague I spoke with suggested that you can go to any of the gazillion ethnic/immigrant churches/temples/mosques in NYC and put up handwritten ads, and you will get many calls.   

[skp]

I was surprised that nobody picked "fancy" daycare.  So I did.  But I guess my vote depends on what you mean by "fancy".   If by fancy you only mean the price then I wouldn't pick it either.  But if you want high quality-  usually high quality is pricey.  So IMO basically you get what you pay for, I vote for fancy.   Those lower teacher/ child ratios do cost more money. If you can find a day care that is reasonably priced and one care giver is taking care of 3-4 not 6 kids (the recommended), ie a regular day care. then I guess you don't need fancy.    .  My granddaughter started out with a nanny because of problems getting her into a day care and now is in a more expensive AKA "fancy" day care.  The nanny was twice as much as the "fancy" day care was. And $300 more than the "regular" standard daycares in the area.  The nanny was OK, I guess it could have been worse.  There was a little drama with a boyfriend,  she was on the phone a lot trying to sort out their relationship, she needed 2 weeks of sick time in the 6 months they had her, and one argument over her pay.  She didn't seem stimulating either.  Just did the diaper changes and feeding.  OK for a little baby but she could have done more.   They couldn't wait to get her into daycare.  I don't know if it was coincidental, but after a week in the day care she seemed like she made dramatic leaps developmental wise.   
I really can't compare "fancy" daycare to "standard" daycare.  The only thing I can see in black and white is a lower teacher/ child ratio.  And to me the lower teacher/ child ratio is worth the $300 price difference.
ETA- Oh I didn't notice the price quotes next to each choice.  That's more of a difference than I expected.   But even with 1000 dollars difference, unless the standard child care has the correct child to teacher ratios, especially with a baby,  I still pick pricey.  I can't imagine one caregiver taking care of 6 babies.   I think the price difference is worth it.  Plus it has the extra "Chinese immersion" you are interested in.
 

[Steeze]

@skp - the “fancy” daycare, in addition to the child:adult ratio, would provide a newer facility in a new building in an expensive neighborhood near where I work. All of the teachers have masters degrees in education. They follow a Montessori approach and are a certified Montessori school. The food provided is supposed to be healthy/natural/organic. They teach everyone in English and Mandarin. They also offer 3 hours of English/Spanish in the afternoons. Each class size is only 12 children, they have 2 classes. Schedule reads more like a school (language, math, science, geography, arts, life skills, organization, etc.).

Regular daycare is near where I live is giant - 100 kids. Most of the teachers are in college or grad school. The director has a masters in education. Ratio is 6:1. Big rooms, newer building, everything is plastic. The schedule reads (reading, snack, walk, lunch, nap, songs, snack, etc.)

[Chrissy]

I think our daycare infant rooms (through 15mo) were 3:1, then they moved to the toddler room where it was probably 6:1.  I went and toured and it was totally fine:  sunlit, cheerful, calm.  If you don't get a good feeling about the place, you gotta go somewhere else.

Wait until your kiddo is maybe 18mo or 2yrs and then switch to the fancy daycare.

[Steeze]

I just found one that is about 20 min. out of the way (30 by train) - would make for a ~1hr commute to work instead of 30 min.

It is mandarin immersion (not Montessori), but the hours are better (730am-630pm) and the tuition is $2000/mo. - maybe that would be a happy middle ground? The extended hours would mean we will not need any special circumstances at work to make drop-off and pick-up on time. Over all the facilities look similar to the 'regular' daycare near my house but smaller, with the added mandarin instruction and extra commute everyday. Price also drops to $1800 for 2-4 years old.

Is 20-30 minutes out of the way a huge mistake? Just seems to check a lot of boxes otherwise.

[Chrissy]

Those prices are pretty good.  I'd go check it out.

30min by train to get the baby there, and then an hour to work?  You could try it.  How's it going to be in winter?  How's it going to be in rush hour with a screaming kiddo?  Do you have to use a stroller to get to/from the train?

True confession:  I commuted our eldest when she was 3yrs old 45min to French preschool by train.  It was 13 weeks in the spring.  I will do it again with our youngest.  Probably wouldn't have done it with a baby for that long.

Could you move closer? 

[Steeze]

Those prices are pretty good.  I'd go check it out.

30min by train to get the baby there, and then an hour to work?  You could try it.  How's it going to be in winter?  How's it going to be in rush hour with a screaming kiddo?  Do you have to use a stroller to get to/from the train?

True confession:  I commuted our eldest when she was 3yrs old 45min to French preschool by train.  It was 13 weeks in the spring.  I will do it again with our youngest.  Probably wouldn't have done it with a baby for that long.

Could you move closer?

That place is about 30 min then 30-45 to work. I got a hold of the admin there and found out they are opening a new facility for 150 kids within walking distance to my office. Not sure what the prices will be yet, but super promising.

[Chrissy]

Get on the waiting list! You can always withdraw if you change your mind.