Author Topic: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs  (Read 11394 times)

KBecks

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Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« on: January 11, 2014, 05:39:09 AM »
Hi Guys,

I'm new here and the blog is helping me set goals and get focused.

Some of our upcoming expenses are for our child.   Our oldest is being diagnosed with ADHD.  He will have neurospych testing later this month and then we are going to a psychologist.  $130 per visit once or twice a month.  I am of the mind that if my child needs this, or if he ends up needing medication (I hope not!)  that this money is worth it and that is why we save money anyway.

Secondly, our 3 boys have started Tae Kwon Do after my 5 year old saw a demo in a parade and fell in love.  The school is wonderful but not cheap.  The discipline and structure will be good for our oldest.  It's $3k/year for 3 boys.  I am not sure we will give this up.

Lastly, our 2 older boys have wanted to do a science program after school.  It's about $100 for 10 weeks.  I would like to let them do this since they are asking for it and showing interest.


Honestly I am not pushing programs on them.  We do swimming lessons and my oldest plays tennis seasonally.  I get a discount and we have a free gym membership because I work at a gym.

This is a lot of money (especially after I read the MMM post about spending $25,000 isn/year).  But, especially for the medical I want great care and the psych is very highly recommended.

I think we will need to make sure we are following all the psychologist's recommendations and I will look for a point quickly where we can self-manage the symptoms and need less frequent visits or check-ins.

Thanks for any comments or ideas.  --Karen

KBecks

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2014, 05:41:14 AM »
I'll just add that I'm a little devastated by the ADHD thing.   I want to deny that there is an issue but the teachers and doctor do see signs and I see a difference in his behavior compared to peers as well.  I'm struggling with this as a parent and want to figure out how to best help my child cope and succeed.  Thanks.

Dee18

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2014, 05:51:43 AM »
Will your medical insurance cover the psychologist? Check in advance to make sure you maximize that possibility, such as by using an "in plan" psychologist.

Gray Matter

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2014, 05:58:17 AM »
Hi Karen:

These kinds of things are hard for me, too.  I think when it comes to your child's health/happiness, you need to do what you need to do, all the while questioning the true necessity of it.  For example, for the therapy, could they work with you to provide you with skills that could help your son so working with the psychologist once a month would suffice, or once every three weeks? 

My daughter is on the verge of being diagnosed with a learning disability (just waiting for assessment, but we and the school is virtually certain) and god only knows what that is going to mean.  Well-meaning friends have been telling me about this great school for kids with learning disabilities, which sounds lovely, but it costs 25k a year.  It's hard to monetize the value of something like that, and my daughter's happiness, but the thought of paying that much every year for the next 10 years makes my gut churn.

As far as activities go, I don't push my kids into anything (sounds like you don't, either).  But my kids need to make a case for their activities, I limit it to 1 per child, and if they want to drop one, I let them (after the end of the session, otherwise they need to reimburse me for unattended sessions). 

One of the best pieces of advice I got from a fellow parent is to avoid "clubs" as they suck you in and costs escalate and tournaments are really expensive.  So when I wanted to get my kids into a martial art, we went with community ed and have been really happy.  It's less intense and competitive (to me that's a good thing), it's a the local rec center (we can walk) and only costs $40 per month per kid, so less than half what you're paying.  May not be an option in your area and may not meet your needs, but it's been a great option for our family.

Don't have any real answers for you here, but can empathize!  I think it comes down to weighing every cost carefully so you are spending money intentionally and not because you think you have to, not buying into the American way, which says kids have to have every opportunity, and trying to think of unstructured down time as a real gift to your children, a far greater gift than all the activities we are tempted to put them in.

pipercat

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2014, 05:58:47 AM »
First, let me say that I'm so sorry your son is struggling.  As parents, we are all so concerned for our kids, and I hope you are able to get some really effective help for him.  I sort of see the ADHD related expenses as medical costs, and I wouldn't consider those optional.

I also want to say that our "Kids- extracurricular" budget category is probably the hardest to reduce.  This means that I am able to cut expenses in pretty much every area except kids' activities. 

So just take a look at your other expenditures, and cut those where possible.  It's sort of like the people who won't compromise on their pet costs, their health club, or whatever else.  If this is the area that is really important to you, cut what you can, and then just look for other ways to cut costs.

Just today, I've decided not to sent my daughter to gymnastics.  She is a reluctant participant, and it is "pay as you go", so I'm not going to waste my money.  Also, she takes an after-school art class that is $250 for a 12 week session.  I signed her up just before Christmas, but I've decided there will only be this one session.  Before finding MMM, I probably would have signed her up for another session in the spring.

My point is that even if we place extracurriculars fairly high on our priority list, we can still make money-saving choices when possible.  Good luck!

VexedCoffee

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2014, 09:38:04 AM »
I don't have kids but I would recommend looking to sign them up for boxing or judo instead of TKD. If they really like the uniforms and atmosphere go with judo. Either of those are going to be a lot cheaper (I pay $20 a month for 2 hour judo lessons 3 times a week).

BPA

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2014, 09:51:14 AM »
I am the mother of a wonderful son who has ADHD, a learning disability, and Tourette Syndrome.  He's been diagnosed with ADHD since he was six.  He is currently medicated, but we take him off meds for the summer and weekends.  His behaviour is much more manageable than it used to be (he's learned better self-control now that he's 15), but he still has and will continue to have difficulty focusing in school, and so he is medicated for school. 

I've spent a great deal of money on therapy and programs to help him be successful.  The good news is that while he still does struggle socially from time to time, he does very well in school.  His teachers always tell me what a hard worker he is and what a great attitude he has.  Currently, he is looking into the trades for career options.

Try not to think of ADHD as a really bad thing.  It's just a part of who your son is (if he has it).  Books you might want to read are Driven to Distraction and Delivered from Distraction by Edward Hallowell.  Edward Hallowell says that ADHD children need the right kinds of parents and teachers and ADHD adults need the right kinds of jobs and spouses.  Also, the James Patterson/Hal Friedman book Against Medical Advice might help you and others understand some of what he is going through.  It's based on a true story and although the boy's needs go beyond ADHD, it's still a good read.

PM if you need support.  I know how it is.  As I've told my son, I wouldn't trade him for one of those goody two shoes kids.  I love him the way he is.  But it is still hard when I worry.


« Last Edit: January 11, 2014, 09:52:55 AM by BPA »

KBecks

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2014, 11:13:22 AM »
Everyone, thanks so much for your replies and support.  I appreciate feeling I'm not alone and that it's going to be OK with my oldest son.

The psychologist is out of network for us, but highly recommended.  For this one, I'm going to go with her because I do want a great experience and great help for this situation.  I'm going to pray that this path give my son the right help and that it makes a difference.

I'll work on cutting back in other areas… start with our car insurance, more efficient grocery shopping, cell phone, this things. 

Yesterday he fell on the playground and chipped a tooth…  the dentist did a beautiful job with the repair, I don't know how much it costs and I guess it doesn't matter.  It's been expensive lately with health care.  In November my youngest son went to the hospital for severe strep throat infection.  He was there 4 days, had surgery and the bill was about $6,000.  Not easy but I get to keep my 5 year old, that's what's most important. 

We will sign on for 1 year with TKD and then evaluate if the kids are still doing well / still interested. 

Thanks again for the conversation. :)

KBecks

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2014, 11:14:41 AM »
Just want to add that, we do have savings and an emergency fund.  The hospital visit is exactly the reason why we have an emergency fund.  We paid the bill without tapping the e-fund, but it is there and the peace of mind is so good.

Nords

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2014, 07:32:39 PM »
Some of our upcoming expenses are for our child.   Our oldest is being diagnosed with ADHD.  He will have neurospych testing later this month and then we are going to a psychologist.  $130 per visit once or twice a month.  I am of the mind that if my child needs this, or if he ends up needing medication (I hope not!)  that this money is worth it and that is why we save money anyway.
Secondly, our 3 boys have started Tae Kwon Do after my 5 year old saw a demo in a parade and fell in love.  The school is wonderful but not cheap.  The discipline and structure will be good for our oldest.  It's $3k/year for 3 boys.  I am not sure we will give this up.
Lastly, our 2 older boys have wanted to do a science program after school.  It's about $100 for 10 weeks.  I would like to let them do this since they are asking for it and showing interest.
You have to line up your spending with your values.  How would your life be if you stopped doing these programs?  Yeah, I'd keep paying for them too.  The costs you want to cut are the ones that don't bring notable improvement to your life.

I think that any martial art for three boys is essential.  Their instructor (who will be respected by them far more than they'll respect you) will discourage them from fighting.  If the kids do end up fighting at home, any squabbles quickly turn into a critique of technique.  ("Your spear hand sucks!"  "Oh, yeah, well your round kick is weak!"  "Just wait until we settle this at the next class!")  They'll burn up lots of energy at the dojang, and they'll be more fit.  They'll learn how to deal with adversity, and how to get up off the mat to try again. 

As if that ROI isn't enough already, I'm convinced that our daughter's TKD black belt is one of the things that got her into Rice University on a NROTC scholarship.  Her TKD experience with failure, adversity, and persistence kept her there.  The $10K investment in TKD has paid a 15x return.

I've also watched taekwondo do wonders for a number of kids dealing with ADHD and Asperger's... even autism.  The focus/concentration skills learned on the mats also work in school & homework. 

Other martial arts & other sports can accomplish the same goals, but I don't have any personal experience there.

abhe8

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2014, 08:13:49 PM »
op, i'm not sure what your question is? it sounds like you have decided to spend the money on those things. thats ok. :) that is what we do...choose how to spend our money. yes, lots of us on here would not make those choices, but its not our life. it seems you really aren't open to other suggestions, which again, is fine, i'm just not sure what you are really asking?

BPA

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2014, 04:10:41 AM »
op, i'm not sure what your question is? it sounds like you have decided to spend the money on those things. thats ok. :) that is what we do...choose how to spend our money. yes, lots of us on here would not make those choices, but its not our life. it seems you really aren't open to other suggestions, which again, is fine, i'm just not sure what you are really asking?

She asked for comments or ideas.  When you are dealing with the diagnosis of an exceptionality, it's important to seek support and to find out others' experiences and she got them. 

I also struggled with how much to spend on the extra therapies and such that my son needed.  His father didn't think they were necessary, but I did, so I wound up footing the bill all by myself.  I have no regrets really except almost for the $5k I spent on a special needs camp, but even that was really good for him.  It was just really expensive.  I also cut back on my work hours by 1/3 so that I could be home for him more.  I don't regret that either, but I'd be FI already if I'd worked full-time.

It's hard striking the right balance and when one goals are somewhat conflicting, it's always good to ask what others have done or think.

Self-employed-swami

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2014, 04:19:19 AM »
I am not a parent, but at $3,000/year for 3 kids, that seems like a rather cost-effective extra-curricular activity.  I don't think that is unreasonable at all.

And BPA has a wonderful son, so listen to her :)

Anatidae V

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2014, 04:55:54 AM »
One of my cousins (13yo now) gets hyperactive when he has things with "unnatural" colouring, flavours or preservatives, and anything with... Peanuts. Yes, peanuts. They thought he was ADHD, but when he doesn't eat those trigger foods he's just a VERY active kid. I second that you talk to several people, including a second opinion and some diet changes yourself, and see if it helps. He may still need the psychologist, but it might reduce or negate the need for medication. Work on his psych homework with him and ask for extra reading material. It's helped me keep my costs down as much as I reasonably could since I was diagnosed with anxiety. Also, money spent now has a huge ROI in this kind of instance.

TKD is great for kids, but I've found (depends on child, of course) that the less  tournament driven ones are better. That said, another cousin (10yo) has been going in tournaments with her dad, and she adores it. You might want to look around at what other people think of other clubs nearby.

KBecks

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2014, 03:48:50 PM »
Thanks for suggesting diet.  I would like to try this and it will be a big change / transition for us.  It will be good but it might be hard to get there / take a while to get there.   I need to read more about ADD/ADHD.  I ordered some books from Amazon, and now I can't find them!  (I think this is me being a little in denial about the whole thing.)

I look forward to getting more info from the doctors and making progress.

We interviewed a few TKD schools and felt this one was the most straightforward about how they work.  It's been a wonderful experience so far.  :)

rubybeth

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2014, 04:28:30 PM »
I'll just add that my DH has ADHD, non-hyperactive type, and was diagnosed with it as an adult, though the signs and symptoms have been there his whole life. I think being diagnosed as a kid would have made a huge difference for him, both in school and in helping his family to understand his behavior. When I started dating him, I was like, "No other adult I know loses their keys as much as this man," and other little things that added up to be big stressors for him. I think seeing the psychologist, even for a little while, will be really important, especially if she comes highly recommended. I am guessing she will teach him skills he will be able to use throughout his life, so the ROI will likely be worth it. Also, FWIW, my DH is a highly intelligent man, is amazingly empathetic, works wonders in his job as a youth counselor to teenagers, and is in graduate school to become a therapist himself, so a diagnosis of ADHD need not be any kind of barrier to his later success in life.

Good luck to you and your son!

Nords

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2014, 11:05:43 PM »
I'll just add that my DH has ADHD, non-hyperactive type, and was diagnosed with it as an adult, though the signs and symptoms have been there his whole life. I think being diagnosed as a kid would have made a huge difference for him, both in school and in helping his family to understand his behavior.
I think most of the adults diagnosed with ADHD or bipolar issues (and even more challenging syndromes like Asperger's) get that diagnosis after their kids are diagnosed and someone says "But their parents are just like this!"

rubybeth

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2014, 10:10:28 AM »
I'll just add that my DH has ADHD, non-hyperactive type, and was diagnosed with it as an adult, though the signs and symptoms have been there his whole life. I think being diagnosed as a kid would have made a huge difference for him, both in school and in helping his family to understand his behavior.
I think most of the adults diagnosed with ADHD or bipolar issues (and even more challenging syndromes like Asperger's) get that diagnosis after their kids are diagnosed and someone says "But their parents are just like this!"

We don't have kids. My DH was diagnosed at about age 24 as having ADHD inattentive type, which you can read more about here: http://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/childhood-adhd/adhd-inattentive-type

galliver

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2014, 02:35:22 PM »
Not a parent, but one of my biggest regrets looking back on my childhood was that my parents weren't able to keep me in a sport/athletic activity consistently (I believe this was mostly a money issue). I wasn't good with team sports, but I wasn't completely unathletic; I enjoyed gymnastics, swimming, and dance for the times I was in them. But because it was occasional and not consistent, I never developed a habit of fitness, and that's something I have to fight really hard to change now as an adult.

greaper007

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2014, 09:27:21 PM »
I have ADHD, I was among the first cadre diagnosed when I was in first grade in 1986, and all I can say is thank god I was diagnosed.    I was one of the first kids on ritalin and it really saved my early school career.   I went from one of the lowest performing kids in the class to out reading every reading group in my class.   Eventually, my teacher just told me to pick whatever I wanted and to just read to myself, I also started to excel in all my other subjects.   

I was never really hyperactive, but the Ritalin really reigned in any sort of behavior that used to get me in trouble.   The downside was that I became a pretty introverted kid that was more interested in a book or school work than other people.   But it's hard to say if the medicine or my screwy family caused this.   I also believe my growth was stunted by the ritalin.   You're essentially taking speed everyday, so you completely lose your appetite.   I'm 6' now, but I didn't really start to grow until I was 16, and I finished growing my junior year of college.    I stopped taking ritalin in 5th grade, so it's hard to say what would have happened if I had stayed on.   My grades dropped when I got off of it, but I also changed schools and my family got even more dysfunctional.

Here's my point:  If your son had PROPER psychological testing (my wife is a psychologist and she goes nuts over what some people call testing for certain disorders) and the dr confirmed the hypothesize, just go with it.   I'm sure the drugs have gotten better since the mid-80s, but I can tell you personally, that I probably wouldn't have learned basic math or reading without the aid of Ritalin.   It's really not a big deal.   

Here's my only advice, when you son gets older, tell him to lie about his diagnoses on any form he fills out.   I have a friend that lost a flying slot in the Marines because a psychiatrist mis-diagnosed him as ADHD when he was 13 or 14.   Had he simply lied about the diagnoses, no one would ever have been able to find out.    I was an airline pilot and have an Airline Transport Pilot certificate.   Every time I get a FAA medical exam there's a box that asks about whether you've been diagnosed with ADHD after a certain age.  I was done with treatment within the appropriate time period so I can mark no, however, if I had been diagnosed I would have no problem lying about this.   There's no evidence that an ADHD diagnoses makes you any less effective at your profession, and there's no way anyone can find out about your diagnoses with sealed medical records.

Good Luck.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 09:34:14 PM by greaper007 »

BPA

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2014, 01:41:07 PM »
I have ADHD, I was among the first cadre diagnosed when I was in first grade in 1986, and all I can say is thank god I was diagnosed.    I was one of the first kids on ritalin and it really saved my early school career.   I went from one of the lowest performing kids in the class to out reading every reading group in my class.   Eventually, my teacher just told me to pick whatever I wanted and to just read to myself, I also started to excel in all my other subjects.   

I was never really hyperactive, but the Ritalin really reigned in any sort of behavior that used to get me in trouble.   The downside was that I became a pretty introverted kid that was more interested in a book or school work than other people.   But it's hard to say if the medicine or my screwy family caused this.   I also believe my growth was stunted by the ritalin.   You're essentially taking speed everyday, so you completely lose your appetite.   I'm 6' now, but I didn't really start to grow until I was 16, and I finished growing my junior year of college.    I stopped taking ritalin in 5th grade, so it's hard to say what would have happened if I had stayed on.   My grades dropped when I got off of it, but I also changed schools and my family got even more dysfunctional.

Here's my point:  If your son had PROPER psychological testing (my wife is a psychologist and she goes nuts over what some people call testing for certain disorders) and the dr confirmed the hypothesize, just go with it.   I'm sure the drugs have gotten better since the mid-80s, but I can tell you personally, that I probably wouldn't have learned basic math or reading without the aid of Ritalin.   It's really not a big deal.   

Here's my only advice, when you son gets older, tell him to lie about his diagnoses on any form he fills out.   I have a friend that lost a flying slot in the Marines because a psychiatrist mis-diagnosed him as ADHD when he was 13 or 14.   Had he simply lied about the diagnoses, no one would ever have been able to find out.    I was an airline pilot and have an Airline Transport Pilot certificate.   Every time I get a FAA medical exam there's a box that asks about whether you've been diagnosed with ADHD after a certain age.  I was done with treatment within the appropriate time period so I can mark no, however, if I had been diagnosed I would have no problem lying about this.   There's no evidence that an ADHD diagnoses makes you any less effective at your profession, and there's no way anyone can find out about your diagnoses with sealed medical records.

Good Luck.

My son takes Vyvanse which is a stimulant med like Ritalin.  He has taken Ritalin before too.  He is short (5'4" at 15) but we take him off for the summer and that's when he grows the most.  I've actually wondered about giving him a highly physical semester at school and taking him off meds so that he can grow more. 

I am glad you found a solution that worked for you.  It must be awful to not be able to focus in our current education system of classroom dominated learning.

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2014, 02:45:07 PM »
Hi, KBecks.  My son does not have ADHD but he has Asperger's and dyslexia.  He participated in equine therapy for about a year and a half.  It really helped him.  I have heard that equine therapy is supposed to be beneficial for children diagnosed with ADHD, too.

greaper007

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2014, 08:33:36 PM »
I have ADHD, I was among the first cadre diagnosed when I was in first grade in 1986, and all I can say is thank god I was diagnosed.    I was one of the first kids on ritalin and it really saved my early school career.   I went from one of the lowest performing kids in the class to out reading every reading group in my class.   Eventually, my teacher just told me to pick whatever I wanted and to just read to myself, I also started to excel in all my other subjects.   

I was never really hyperactive, but the Ritalin really reigned in any sort of behavior that used to get me in trouble.   The downside was that I became a pretty introverted kid that was more interested in a book or school work than other people.   But it's hard to say if the medicine or my screwy family caused this.   I also believe my growth was stunted by the ritalin.   You're essentially taking speed everyday, so you completely lose your appetite.   I'm 6' now, but I didn't really start to grow until I was 16, and I finished growing my junior year of college.    I stopped taking ritalin in 5th grade, so it's hard to say what would have happened if I had stayed on.   My grades dropped when I got off of it, but I also changed schools and my family got even more dysfunctional.

Here's my point:  If your son had PROPER psychological testing (my wife is a psychologist and she goes nuts over what some people call testing for certain disorders) and the dr confirmed the hypothesize, just go with it.   I'm sure the drugs have gotten better since the mid-80s, but I can tell you personally, that I probably wouldn't have learned basic math or reading without the aid of Ritalin.   It's really not a big deal.   

Here's my only advice, when you son gets older, tell him to lie about his diagnoses on any form he fills out.   I have a friend that lost a flying slot in the Marines because a psychiatrist mis-diagnosed him as ADHD when he was 13 or 14.   Had he simply lied about the diagnoses, no one would ever have been able to find out.    I was an airline pilot and have an Airline Transport Pilot certificate.   Every time I get a FAA medical exam there's a box that asks about whether you've been diagnosed with ADHD after a certain age.  I was done with treatment within the appropriate time period so I can mark no, however, if I had been diagnosed I would have no problem lying about this.   There's no evidence that an ADHD diagnoses makes you any less effective at your profession, and there's no way anyone can find out about your diagnoses with sealed medical records.

Good Luck.

My son takes Vyvanse which is a stimulant med like Ritalin.  He has taken Ritalin before too.  He is short (5'4" at 15) but we take him off for the summer and that's when he grows the most.  I've actually wondered about giving him a highly physical semester at school and taking him off meds so that he can grow more. 

I am glad you found a solution that worked for you.  It must be awful to not be able to focus in our current education system of classroom dominated learning.

I have to say that Ritalin affected me less than cutting weight for wrestling affected my dad and uncles.   I have about 3 inches on all of them, and their grandpa was well over 6'.   I'm just at 6' tall and I'm not sure that I was as tall as your son is at 15.   I blame my northern european genes for my late growth, though I'm sure taking speed everyday didn't help.   I still wouldn't have traded it for a couple more inches.   I literally went from the bottom of my class to the top.   I really feel like the medicine allowed my brain to focus on things in the way that most people are able to.   

I'm 33 and I still have a very difficult time doing anything that I'm not interested in.   I have to listen to podcasts to clean the house or do laundry.   Checking my bank account on the computer often means that I get lost in reading about some new york times article for 25 mins.   It's a good and a bad thing.   It forces you to only do things that you enjoy, and when you do those things you excel at them in a way that I don't think other people can.    Along with the deficit, you also get a sort of hyper focus.   In a way, it's really a gift.

Good luck to your son.

rubybeth

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2014, 09:23:28 AM »
It's a good and a bad thing.   It forces you to only do things that you enjoy, and when you do those things you excel at them in a way that I don't think other people can.    Along with the deficit, you also get a sort of hyper focus.   In a way, it's really a gift.

This is EXACTLY how I see my husband's ADHD. I think you put it perfectly. It has drawbacks but I also think it's a type of genius.

ace1224

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2014, 09:51:41 AM »
hi! my son is 9 and has been diagnosed with ADHD and oppositional defiant disorder.  on top of that he has a learning disability (phonological processing delay, he cannot blend sounds together and/or sound words out, therefore reading is really really really hard) and a coordination delay.  we don't medicate because even with increased focus he won't be able to read until his brain catches up.  i want to second the person who said diet helps a lot.  i took my son to a 85% free of processed food diet and it has done wonders. 
i also pay a shit ton for therapy.  check and see if you can get an HPHP with an HSA for the insurance, after he hits the deductible of 1500 out of pocket a year he is 100% covered based on the insurance my company offers me.  we hit that before the end of the first quarter as we go to reading therapy (speech) and occupational therapy plus a behavioral therapist. 
my son also does martial arts and its something that all three doctors we see have highly recommended.  i have noticed his focus grow and he learns to control his body and his actions.  i pay quite a bit for it, but its worth it.  i will eat shit processed food so that i can keep my spending at levels i feel comfortable with.
like others said i wouldn't worry about trying to cut back on those things.  if he needs it he needs it.  and since school is so hard for my kid if there is something he likes i go balls to the wall for it and probably end up doing a couple of "unmustachian" things just because i want to foster a love of learning and if order ancient egyptian mummy kits from amazon helps my kid learn history, math, and we can work on reading the instructions together without a fight or meltdown then i will order those until we move on to the next thing.  (which incidentally after egypt was macchu picchu)
i keep spending low in other areas so i don't feel so tight when it comes to stuff like that.  good luck! and i feel you on the diagnosis denial, it took me a while to come to terms with it but like others have said i can't imagine it any different now.  my kid may make me want to rip my hair out but when he's into something its actually really cool to immerse the whole family learn as much as we can about things.  i have learned a lot just by trying to help him learn.  but damn it can be hard sometimes

ritchie70

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2014, 03:00:18 PM »
I am not a parent, but at $3,000/year for 3 kids, that seems like a rather cost-effective extra-curricular activity.  I don't think that is unreasonable at all.

And BPA has a wonderful son, so listen to her :)

I was thinking it sounded kind of high. My nephew was doing Shotokan karate through the park district (it's instructors from the local Shotokan organization, they work through almost all the park districts around here) and I think it was a couple hundred a semester, so maybe $600 - $700 a year. I took him and watched all the classes, and I was satisfied that there were VERY good instructors.

I priced the local private club with their own facility in the strip mall next to Dunkin Donuts and Walgreens and they were quite a bit more.

Psychstache

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2014, 10:22:46 AM »
School Psychologist here with years working with students with ADHD, learning disorders, emotional issues, etc:

I would strongly encourage you to keep an open mind and try and work through any anxiety you might have about any diagnosis that might come up. The last thing you want is for your child to get a sense that you are upset because they are 'different' from everyone else. Also, the earlier the intervention the better, so try and work through your feelings and get on board as soon as possible. I will never forget one mother who staunchly resisted every report and concern we brought up about possible ADHD with her son starting in 1st grade. When the kiddo was in danger of repeating the third grade, she finally took him to a psych and he was diagnosed and prescribed Concerta, and the kid did a complete 180 and became a model student almost over night. The mother was surprised and somewhat ashamed that she let her son struggle for so long because she didn't want anything to be wrong.

Second, having ADHD does not condemn a person to a life of misery and failure. My sister is the classic 'space-cadet' inattentive type ADHD case. With learning strategies to self-correct her behavior and medication, she is able to run her own business while raising two amazing children.

A general rule of thumb that I have heard from psychs is a 1/3 rule: 1/3 of individuals with ADHD will learn to cope with behavioral strategies alone, 1/3 with cope with just medication, and 1/3 will need support through medication and behavioral interventions.

Last point, if your child is identified with ADHD and the school wishes to consider special education services, start studying up. Special education rights and laws are significant, complex, and decisions made for students in elementary school can have significant impacts on secondary and post secondary life.

Best of luck however things turn out.

KBecks

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2014, 06:29:34 AM »
OK, ksaleh, here is our update:   Our son is diagnosed with ADHD, and a possible learning disability in written expression.  We are considering special education services by suggestion of the neuropsych who evaluated him.    I was really hoping that he did not have ADHD, but now that we know, we can cope with it.  I do not want to emphasize the ADHD and do want to focus on his strengths.

Our first visit with the psychologist (out of pocket, $$$) is tomorrow.  I may change this and try to get an in-network psych, but I am more concerned with getting great care, so we will at least start there. 

I am willing to do a trial of stimulant-type meds after reading more about it in the book Delivered from Distraction.  I don't want to try the other classes of drugs, so if he's one of the 75% or so whom a stimulant-type doesn't work for, then we're going only with behavior strategies.

Please tell me more about the impacts on secondary and post secondary life.   The big concerns right now are that 4th grade is a very challenging year (his next school year), and is writing is at a 1st grade level at this time.   It's my hope to give him the best possible shot at catching up and having a great year in school next year (and beyond).
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 06:31:19 AM by KBecks »

Gray Matter

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2014, 06:41:27 AM »
Hi KBecks:

Am very interested in following your journey on this.  My daughter is still in the testing stages, but she is lagging so far behind her peers in both reading and writing (she's 8).  Well, and math too.  We got some preliminary results that put her aptitude in the 89th percentile for verbal and 59th percentile composite score, which was such a relief and we're really rooting for a learning disability (which sounds strange, but the other alternative is a low IQ).

Psychstache

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2014, 09:39:12 AM »
OK, ksaleh, here is our update:   Our son is diagnosed with ADHD, and a possible learning disability in written expression.  We are considering special education services by suggestion of the neuropsych who evaluated him.    I was really hoping that he did not have ADHD, but now that we know, we can cope with it.  I do not want to emphasize the ADHD and do want to focus on his strengths.

Our first visit with the psychologist (out of pocket, $$$) is tomorrow.  I may change this and try to get an in-network psych, but I am more concerned with getting great care, so we will at least start there. 

I am willing to do a trial of stimulant-type meds after reading more about it in the book Delivered from Distraction.  I don't want to try the other classes of drugs, so if he's one of the 75% or so whom a stimulant-type doesn't work for, then we're going only with behavior strategies.

Please tell me more about the impacts on secondary and post secondary life.   The big concerns right now are that 4th grade is a very challenging year (his next school year), and is writing is at a 1st grade level at this time.   It's my hope to give him the best possible shot at catching up and having a great year in school next year (and beyond).

Disclaimer: While sped is a federal law, implementation is left up to the states, so I can only speak to my experience in Texas. Your state might vary.

So one thing that is important to know is that the criteria for a learning disability in the clinical world and the criteria for a learning disability in the educational setting are two different things, so the neuropsych saying he has a learning disability does not mean he automatically can get services in the school. Regardless, a diagnosis of ADHD is usually enough to get services.

The first thing you should know is that there are two different services you can consider accessing for your son: 504 and Special Education.

504 is the section of the individuals with disabilities act that guarantees students with disabilities must be provided with appropriate accommodations.

Special Education (or the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, or IDEA) is the law that requires that schools provide a free and appropriate education (or FAPE) to students with disabilities.

Some big differences:

504 is easier to qualify for, but the supports they provide a somewhat limited compared to IDEA.
504 services can be provided in college, IDEA only applies to public schools.
IDEA requires a student to have a disability and to have a requirement for specially designed instruction because of that disability, 504 only asks if a basic life function is impaired by the disability.


As far as impacts later in life, that depends on how special education is set up in your state. In Texas, students can be supported in the general curriculum, or they can have modified curriculum. The big changes come into play if a student has modified instruction. In general, modified curriculum means that we remove some of the less important concepts that are taught to allow the students to focus on only the important stuff. In theory it seems like a good plan, but it can set some kids up to fall further and further behind. The big issue is when a kid is modified when they are in elementary and then move on to high school. In Texas, if a student has even one modified class in high school, then the following issues come up:

1. They cannot go straight to a 4 year university, they have to start out at a community college and then later transfer to a four year university.

2. They are required to complete some extra piece for graduation since they are not responsible for knowing the full curriculum. This usually means that they have to take a cluster of courses that are related so that they have skills coming out of high school (we have 2 year elective blocks like cosmetology, automotive, culinary, etc) or they have to find and maintain employment for 1 semester, or they can be connected to an agency that provides services to adults with disabilities.

3. Many times (and this can also come up in middle school), they will lose some of their elective spots to have additional courses for remediation. Most of our elementary kiddos move on to middle school and get to choose 3 electives, but most of the kids with modified curriculum only end up getting to choose 2 or sometimes even only 1.


If you and the school are considering special education, here is my advice to you:

1. read up on your rights for 504 and IDEA. I would google "Procedural Safeguards (Your State)" for the sped guidelines and "Parents Guide to 504 (Your State)" and read up. You might also ask the school counselor and/or special education department for a copy (Warning: these documents are long and written in legalese).

2. If your child gets referred, get the name and number of the evaluator and make sure they contact you to do a test interpretation before any meetings. Parents who go into the meetings blind get a mountain of legal jargon thrown at them and it can be overwhelming, so it is best if you can sit down with the LSSP or diag at an earlier time to ask all of your questions and be better prepared for the meeting.

3. When you want to provide behavioral interventions, try to work with the school staff and see if you can both implement the same system at home and school. Kids with ADHD tend to do better with structure and if the rules of the game are the same at home and school, it can be easier.

4. Do not let the school overwhelm you or pressure you into a making a decision for your child. Most everyone in education is well-intentioned, but sometimes they can get stuck in their mode of thinking. Never forget that your are a member of the team that makes decisions. You have to agree in order for them to provide services. You need to understand and agree with the decisions, so make sure they are always acting in the interest of your child.

5. On the flip side to #4, don't get crazy unreasonable with the school. IDEA doesn't mean you have the right to push unrealistic demands on the school. IDEA requires the school to provide an appropriate education at no cost, not to maximize your child's potential. The latter is your job as a parent.

6. Never EVER let your child think that their disability is an acceptable reason to fail. The students that I have worked with who end up struggling throughout their educational career are always the ones who have excuses like "I can't focus" or "It think it is my meds fault". In the end, there is still personal responsibility.

One of my favorite stories is a student with a pretty significant learning disability that I had who transferred in to one of my high schools. By credit, she was a sophomore, but was supposed to be a junior. We were in a meeting discussing her planning and she was talking about her plan to take a rather rigorous, by any standard, course load so that she could catch up and graduate on time. Her principal talked to her about how it was okay if she took some extra time and that she shouldn't push herself. She listened to him comments, but i could see it in her eyes that she was determined to pull this off. Well, she busted her butt and caught back up and graduated on time. Now, she working her way through college to become a vet tech and is killing it.

Well, I think that is enough of a novel today. Hope some of the info here helps.

pipercat

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2014, 02:30:20 PM »
If you have more questions about special education and the law, you can check out wrightslaw.com.  They have lots of information for each of the various situations that anyone considering an IEP or 504 may encounter.

As a special educator/evaluator, I can tell you that the tone on that site can sometimes come across as adversarial (putting parents and educators in opposite corners), but the basic information is accurate.  Whether you end up pursuing special education or not, it will certainly be helpful to share the results of any outside evaluations with your child's school.

Best wishes!

SwordGuy

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2014, 02:51:26 PM »
Best of luck on this. 

Check out NLP - Neuro-Linguistic Programming.  It's a very cool set of training that helps people in a variety of ways that might help your son.  It may be more effective than a psychiatrist. 

As for not letting your child use their difficulties as an excuse for failure, double-down on that.  Here's an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9DvHUTsmGU


BPA

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2014, 04:48:11 PM »
As I said before I am the mom of a boy with ADHD, LD (in written expression too), and Tourettes.

I am also a high school teacher English and Special Ed teacher.

I have to say that all the kids with ADHD I know say that high school is easier for them than elementary.  And that has been my son's experience too. 

Good luck. 

FWIW, my son says the Tourettes is the hardest of all of his disabilities to manage.  He says life would be a lot easier with just ADHD and LD. 


wordygirl

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2014, 08:44:20 PM »
As a parent of two kids with autism, one high-functioning and one Aspergers, I know what you are going through.

I'm just really sad to hear that you have to pay for support. Here in Canada I get loads of funding that I use to pay for my kids' therapist (clinical counsellor who does social skills training, anxiety and anger management, and other life skills), therapeutic riding, and anything else we need and I'm not limited to certain providers (I'm sorry if this sounds like bragging but honestly I don't know what is up with Americans being scared of universal health care, stories like yours seem heartbreaking to me that money should have to factor into your decision on how to best care for your son).

Anyhow, I just wanted to say that it will be OK. There is so much knowledge now about how to help kids with these challenges. Getting it addressed now, when they are young, really stacks the deck in their favour. My kids have made huge progress over the years and are learning to embrace their challenges and face them head on. 

BPA

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2014, 10:56:58 AM »
As a parent of two kids with autism, one high-functioning and one Aspergers, I know what you are going through.

I'm just really sad to hear that you have to pay for support. Here in Canada I get loads of funding that I use to pay for my kids' therapist (clinical counsellor who does social skills training, anxiety and anger management, and other life skills), therapeutic riding, and anything else we need and I'm not limited to certain providers (I'm sorry if this sounds like bragging but honestly I don't know what is up with Americans being scared of universal health care, stories like yours seem heartbreaking to me that money should have to factor into your decision on how to best care for your son).

Anyhow, I just wanted to say that it will be OK. There is so much knowledge now about how to help kids with these challenges. Getting it addressed now, when they are young, really stacks the deck in their favour. My kids have made huge progress over the years and are learning to embrace their challenges and face them head on.

My son gets no funding for therapy for ADHD, Tourettes, and LD, so even in Canada, those things are not funded.  I'm glad they are for autism spectrum disorders.  I have paid tens of thousands of dollars for interventions for my son despite "universal health care."

wordygirl

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2014, 06:19:37 PM »
BPA, I am sorry to hear that. I'm in BC and most of our funding is through the Ministry of Education but some through the Ministry of Child and Family Services. In our homeschool program (a Ministry-funded "virtual school") everybody in the Special Needs program gets funding, regardless of diagnosis (you need one, but it isn't specific to the diagnosis). My understanding is that brick-and-mortar schools are supposed to fund this as well but in some schools the money gets eaten up with other things and I have heard some stories of parents bearing much of the burden themselves. It's one of many reasons why we homeschool. But I've also known families who have moved to different schools or even provinces to find a school that provides proper support for their special needs kids.

Our provincial health care plan pays for psychologists, pediatricians, hearing tests, speech therapy, and any medical or health professional the kids have needed. And we are allowed to choose whomever we want.

(sorry to hijack the thread!)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 06:32:54 PM by wordygirl »

Cassie

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2014, 04:42:15 PM »
My friend has a child with ADHD and the psychologist worked with her to develop a home behavior modification program that worked really well.  She had 3 kids so put all of them on it of course and the progress was posted on the refrigerator. Everyone liked getting rewarded for doing the right thing. You may want to look into this. When I was raising my 3 boys I let each of them do 2 things a year.  One had to be low cost like boy scouts and the other could be more expensive.  Also I found that for sports there were local community groups that were much cheaper and taught better sportsmanship then say Little League.   

Tai

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Re: Costs for Psychologist, Tae Kwon Do, school programs
« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2014, 03:52:19 PM »
I work in special education and you are doing the right thing pursuing help and answers for your son. I work with quite a few boys who are diagnosed with ADHD and some who likely have it but are not diagnosed. The saddest thing for me is to see a 12-13 year old who is many years behind in school, and has no diagnosis, but is very smart. I feel like their potential future has been limited. Please be patient with treatment, it can take a while and some experimentation to figure out what works best for your child. I know how it feels as a parent when you find out that your child (teen in my case) has problems, my daughter has bipolar and can no longer attend high school :( It has been very painful and I often feel that people do not understand.