Childcare Arrangements Brainstorm!!

[fidgiegirl]

I am kind of in love with threads that are just a ton of alternative/mustachian ideas, no matter how wacky or wild, on a topic.

So, can we do childcare?

What alternatives to daycare centers have you heard of people using, or even an arrangement you once thought, "well, that might work out nicely for someone!"?

Go!!

[Daleth]

We don't have kids yet but that's in the works, and lately I've been thinking, hmm, what if I hire a Montessori teacher to watch my kid(s) and neighborhood kids within the same age group, and charge the neighbors tuition? In other words, what if I set up a little Montessori daycare for kids 0-3 years old, in one of our rental units (our house has rental units, including a commercial one) or one of our nearby rental properties? (I say 0-3 because Montessori teachers are trained to teach certain age groups: 0-3, 3-6, 6-12). And perhaps as the kids in the school get older, we could add a Montessori 3-6 teacher so there's childcare until they're old enough for public school if that's where parents want to send them... or we could just keep going!

Looking at the cost of comparable childcare and the average salaries of Montessori teachers, it actually seems like it might be feasible--in other words the tuition might be enough to cover the salary and benefits of the teacher and perhaps even an assistant, and the necessary liability insurance. And to be businesslike, we could pay the Montessori school the same tuition for our kid(s), but then have the school pay us rent, so in effect we'd have free childcare.

So I was looking at what's required to be considered a real Montessori school--there are two types of Montessori, AMI and AMS, and they have standards to meet in order for a school to be affiliated with them--and we probably could meet the entry-level or "initiate" standards, and then hopefully progress from there:
http://amiusa.org/school-standards/
http://amshq.org/School-Resources/AMS-Member-Schools/Levels-of-Membership.aspx

This idea might be totally insane--perhaps a massive hassle-fest to set up--but I really like the concept of free, excellent childcare (speaking as someone who went to Montessori nursery and primary schools, it's an awesome system) provided by a trained teacher that I hand-pick and do a background check on, in a location that requires little or no commute! And to have that, AND ALSO provide really great childcare to other kids--it's like a good deed! I have to talk to a lawyer about zoning issues, but it is at least clear that if I were a trained Montessori teacher myself I could open such a school right in my house as long as it didn't have more than a certain number of kids (less than 14), so I will find out what hurdles there may be to jump if I want to hire someone else to be the teacher in one of our rental units.

[MicroRN]

Some nurses I know set up their schedules to work opposite days, and then take care of each other's kids.  They both work at a hospital that does 12 hour shifts, so they each work 3 days a week. 

We work 8 hour shifts, and we have a nurse who works evenings.  His wife is an aide and works days.  She comes in in the AM, he's at home with the kids, then brings them in and hands them off in the PM.   

I love the Montessori idea!  Not completely on topic, but I keep thinking if I could get it established in the right area, I could make a fortune with a sick child daycare or sick child emergency nanny service.

[fidgiegirl]

Daleth, wow!  Way to think outside of the box!!

Not completely on topic, but I keep thinking if I could get it established in the right area, I could make a fortune with a sick child daycare or sick child emergency nanny service.

I think it's on topic.  After all, if someone stayed home and would be willing to take on additional sick children, that could be a way to offset the loss of income.  Of course, it might not be the smartest either with one's own kids getting exposed, etc . . . BUT this thread is all about ideas!

[mrsggrowsveg]

I have seriously considered getting an Au Pair nanny if I have more kids.  The rates are really good.  Also, I have thought about giving free rent in our rental house for a really good nanny.  However, the neighborhood is so bad I don't think anyone would live there.

[Norman Johnson]

We don't have kids yet but that's in the works, and lately I've been thinking, hmm, what if I hire a Montessori teacher to watch my kid(s) and neighborhood kids within the same age group, and charge the neighbors tuition? In other words, what if I set up a little Montessori daycare for kids 0-3 years old, in one of our rental units (our house has rental units, including a commercial one) or one of our nearby rental properties? (I say 0-3 because Montessori teachers are trained to teach certain age groups: 0-3, 3-6, 6-12). And perhaps as the kids in the school get older, we could add a Montessori 3-6 teacher so there's childcare until they're old enough for public school if that's where parents want to send them... or we could just keep going!

Looking at the cost of comparable childcare and the average salaries of Montessori teachers, it actually seems like it might be feasible--in other words the tuition might be enough to cover the salary and benefits of the teacher and perhaps even an assistant, and the necessary liability insurance. And to be businesslike, we could pay the Montessori school the same tuition for our kid(s), but then have the school pay us rent, so in effect we'd have free childcare.

So I was looking at what's required to be considered a real Montessori school--there are two types of Montessori, AMI and AMS, and they have standards to meet in order for a school to be affiliated with them--and we probably could meet the entry-level or "initiate" standards, and then hopefully progress from there:
http://amiusa.org/school-standards/
http://amshq.org/School-Resources/AMS-Member-Schools/Levels-of-Membership.aspx

This idea might be totally insane--perhaps a massive hassle-fest to set up--but I really like the concept of free, excellent childcare (speaking as someone who went to Montessori nursery and primary schools, it's an awesome system) provided by a trained teacher that I hand-pick and do a background check on, in a location that requires little or no commute! And to have that, AND ALSO provide really great childcare to other kids--it's like a good deed! I have to talk to a lawyer about zoning issues, but it is at least clear that if I were a trained Montessori teacher myself I could open such a school right in my house as long as it didn't have more than a certain number of kids (less than 14), so I will find out what hurdles there may be to jump if I want to hire someone else to be the teacher in one of our rental units.

It is a bit of a pain, but doable. Where I live, I can take in up to four children (counting my own) and not have to be licensed. Once you become licensed, you need to have a certain amount of space per child as well as facilities for eating and napping, and there must be a adult/child ratio maintained. Where I am, it's dependent upon the age of the child. (You need 1 adult per 4 children if there are children under two. As they get older, you need less adults.)

Of course, the reality is people here are so strapped for childcare (especially the youngest children) that parents will pretty much take any spot the can, even if it seems a little shady or expensive.

As for my contribution to the list, my friends and I have a daycare swap. One of us will go to the other person's house to watch the kids while couple gets to go out and then we reciprocate. It works out very nicely.

[fidgiegirl]

I have seriously considered getting an Au Pair nanny if I have more kids.  The rates are really good.  Also, I have thought about giving free rent in our rental house for a really good nanny.  However, the neighborhood is so bad I don't think anyone would live there.

Is there a difference between an au pair nanny and a regular old nanny?  I guess I have only thought of an au pair as a foreign worker who comes to the country specifically to nanny for a given family, is this right or am I off base?

[MicroRN]

I have seriously considered getting an Au Pair nanny if I have more kids.  The rates are really good.  Also, I have thought about giving free rent in our rental house for a really good nanny.  However, the neighborhood is so bad I don't think anyone would live there.

Depending on where you live and how many kids, an au pair or nanny can honestly be cheaper than quality daycare.  Generally close to even for 2 kids, definitely cheaper for 3 or more.  I'll admit that a nanny is a our huge non-mustachian expense right now, but I work evening shift, sometimes not getting home until 2 am, have to work every other weekend and holidays, and DH is gone completely for months on end.  We live across the country from all our family.  Regular daycare doesn't accommodate those hours, so we're sucking it up until I have enough seniority to transfer to days.  It only costs a few hundred more per month than the good daycare does though, plus she does cloth diapers, cooks for the kids within our guidelines, and tidies up the house a bit after kiddos are in bed.  Plus - BIG bonus - if the kids are sick (colds or something, not severely ill), she still watches them, so I don't have to call off work.  If you call off twice in a six-month period you're put on probation.  Three times and you're fired. 

If someone wants to be a SAHM but is willing to leave their own house, they could work as a nanny for reduced rates if they can bring their own child along.  If you have compatible child ages, that could work well.  I've had women babysit who brought their own 2 year old, and the two toddlers always had a great time playing.  Not every family would be ok with that, but it's always worth trying. 

[Seppie]

When my oldest was young, I was able to take him to work with me. I traded care with friends on the rare occasions that I needed to leave him. My life changed when my youngest was two.  First I found a family child care home, and used state subsidies to pay for it.  Then I had him at a preschool for 2 days/ week and my mom watched him the other 3 days for free (she also did before and after-school care with my oldest during those years).

When my youngest was in elementary school and I needed before-school care (I was teaching at a different school), I shared care with another family.  They had an awesome sitter who came to their house, and I just dropped my son off there on my way to work.  They paid her $200/month to be there from 6:30-8:15 and drop the kids off at school, and I kicked in another $50/month.  I usually dropped my son off around 7:30 or 7:45. 

That same year, my stepkids were in before school care set up by their mom, to a tune of $19/day per kid!  Sucked that we had to pay half of that and their mom was unwilling to consider alternatives.

The following year, the husband of our childcare-share family got a job teaching at the school my son and their girls went to, so I just dropped my son off there for free.  I did make my friend a really, really nice big basket of expensive beer and chocolate for Christmas, but he was perfectly fine with having one extra kid for the last part of his morning (the way it worked out, my son was actually in his class for two years, and our families also get together regularly on the weekends - poor kid couldn't get away from his teacher!)

The year after that, my son decided he was done with before school care, and just got himself to school (this might have been his 3rd grade year?) Even on the coldest days, he refused rides from our neighbors, and just walked or rode his bike.

Now my kids are old enough that they don't really need care, but I travel every other week, and my husband's work schedule has him going to bed around 6 pm and leaving the house before 2am.  I don't love the idea of 4 kids being alone for half the night and entirely in charge of themselves in the morning - they are very independent and don't really require much, but still - so we pay my mom $500/month to come over and make dinner, then stay overnight at our house when I am traveling. She leaves when the kids leave for school, around 7 am.

So I guess my advice is, have good friends and/or family and be willing to offer care or other favors in return!

[fidgiegirl]

When my oldest was young, I was able to take him to work with me.

Wow, what was your job at that time?

Awesome ideas, everyone . . . keep 'em comin'!!

As recommended in another childcare thread I picked up the book Equally Shared Parenting and am reading lots of ideas of how couples have done non-standard work arrangements/child care arrangements.  In fact, I think MMM and Mrs. MM are one of the featured couples in the book.  If they are not, then all the similarities between them and this couple are waaaaay too eerie.

[HappierAtHome]

As recommended in another childcare thread I picked up the book Equally Shared Parenting and am reading lots of ideas of how couples have done non-standard work arrangements/child care arrangements.  In fact, I think MMM and Mrs. MM are one of the featured couples in the book.  If they are not, then all the similarities between them and this couple are waaaaay too eerie.

Not only are you correct that it's them, but it was mentioned in a blog post at some point that they were interviewed and featured.

[JPinDC]

No kids myself, but I have a coworker who works part-time and shares a nanny with another family who also only needs part-time coverage.

[fidgiegirl]

As recommended in another childcare thread I picked up the book Equally Shared Parenting and am reading lots of ideas of how couples have done non-standard work arrangements/child care arrangements.  In fact, I think MMM and Mrs. MM are one of the featured couples in the book.  If they are not, then all the similarities between them and this couple are waaaaay too eerie.

Not only are you correct that it's them, but it was mentioned in a blog post at some point that they were interviewed and featured.

I knew that vague recollection rattling around in my preggers brain had to have something to it  . . .

[fidgiegirl]

OMG I devoured Equally Shared Parenting.  LOVED it.  There are so many good ideas in there, and DH is going to read it, and we'll just see, I guess, but I am really encouraged.  It's the first parenting book I have cracked that didn't give me a near panic attack.  It felt so much like the first time I read Your Money or Your Life - just "right" - such a similar philosophy.

Among the arrangements mentioned in the book:
- both parents work 80%, only need day care three days a week
- alternating shifts
- self-employment allows flexible schedules
- father saves up paternity leave to take it in dribbles throughout the maternity leave or once maternity leave has ended
- Four 10-hour days
- Shift hours to stagger home time with kids (also may take advantage of lesser commute times if in off-peak hours)
- Work from home

One thing that stood out for me was the idea of being an artisanal worker - doing the very best you can do in the job you've chose, rather than always striving or reaching for the promotion, the raise, the next thing.  I tend to do the striving waaaaay more than my husband.  The argument is that when you are good - REALLY good - at what you do, you have more power in your workplace or to change workplaces if need be and to negotiate that optimal situation because you as a worker are worth it for the employer to make some flexible arrangements.  Of course, I'm sure this isn't ALWAYS the case, but it makes a lot of sense.

[mm1970]

Among the arrangements mentioned in the book:
- both parents work 80%, only need day care three days a week
- alternating shifts
- self-employment allows flexible schedules
- father saves up paternity leave to take it in dribbles throughout the maternity leave or once maternity leave has ended
- Four 10-hour days
- Shift hours to stagger home time with kids (also may take advantage of lesser commute times if in off-peak hours)
- Work from home

As someone whose been there (twice), here are some recommendations/ thoughts.

Having children, particularly infant and toddler age, is very very exhausting.
If you can pull off part time?  Do it.  Way better for us.  I was part time a total of 2.5 years.  The best.
Dribbling the maternity/paternity is great too, if you get that.

But when it comes to working opposite shifts?  I wouldn't recommend it.  You are essentially then working two full time jobs.  And well, when you are a working parent, you are doing that anyway.
But if you work opposite shifts and have the kids when you are off.  You. Never. Ever. Get. A. Break.
If you work from home?  You are working during nap time/ sleep time only, or you need child care.  I have been able to work at home when my older child is home sick from school, but only by putting him in front of the TV all day.  Toddler?  Not possible.

Mostly we shift our schedules.  We only shift them by about an hour.  I go in early in the morning (better traffic for me for sure).  It would be even better if my husband went later/ stayed later, but then he wouldn't get home until after dinner.  Even shifting by an hour, we still need full time child care.

YMMV.  Depends on your age and energy level too.  I have a challenging job and I'm old.  In fact, even though I switched to full time in July, I haven't worked more than two full pay periods in the last six months.  Of course, I'm nearly out of PTO...

[MrsPete]

Education mattered TREMENDOUSLY to my grandmother.  When my first child was born, she offered us a great arrangement that was good for everyone involved.  She said that she'd babysit our new baby, and she asked only two things financially:  1) We'd provide her with a playpen, a car seat, and a high chair so she wouldn't be "out of pocket" by helping us.  2) Every month we'd deposit into a savings account the money we would've spent on daycare.  She was happy to have the baby with her every day, and we were all happy to see her college account grow quickly.  The situation worked wonderfully well when she was an infant, but my grandmother wasn't young, and it became harder on her physically when the child became a toddler.   

I intend to offer the same deal to my children once they become parents.  Since my oldest is studying to be a nurse, she won't fit into traditional day care easily, so this'll be extra helpful to her.


I had a friend who did the you-work-first-shift, I'll-work-second thing with their first child.  It worked, but she said it was hard on their marriage because they never saw one another, and they had a hard time developing a unified parenting style when they were never together as a family.  They made it work, but they didn't repeat the experiment when their second child was born. 

[mamagoose]

OMG I devoured Equally Shared Parenting.  LOVED it.  There are so many good ideas in there, and DH is going to read it, and we'll just see, I guess, but I am really encouraged.  It's the first parenting book I have cracked that didn't give me a near panic attack.  It felt so much like the first time I read Your Money or Your Life - just "right" - such a similar philosophy.

Among the arrangements mentioned in the book:
- both parents work 80%, only need day care three days a week
- alternating shifts
- self-employment allows flexible schedules
- father saves up paternity leave to take it in dribbles throughout the maternity leave or once maternity leave has ended
- Four 10-hour days
- Shift hours to stagger home time with kids (also may take advantage of lesser commute times if in off-peak hours)
- Work from home

One thing that stood out for me was the idea of being an artisanal worker - doing the very best you can do in the job you've chose, rather than always striving or reaching for the promotion, the raise, the next thing.  I tend to do the striving waaaaay more than my husband.  The argument is that when you are good - REALLY good - at what you do, you have more power in your workplace or to change workplaces if need be and to negotiate that optimal situation because you as a worker are worth it for the employer to make some flexible arrangements.  Of course, I'm sure this isn't ALWAYS the case, but it makes a lot of sense.

We read the ESP book late in my pregnancy and it helped reframe the way we thought about child raising on many levels. It also lead to a few raised eyebrows from our in-laws when they saw it on the coffee table and asked what it was all about, since they are from the traditional man is the breadwinner, woman does the childrearing generation. I had a lot of ideas of how we would handle childcare before our baby was born, and pretty much none of them held out, but for kicks here's a list...

-Work part-time from home 3 days a week, watch my baby + my friend's baby 2 days a week (alternating in-home care with her). We planned on having kids at the same time, but she got divorced before I got pregnant so that plan went out the window. I would still be open to this if another friend suggested it after baby is weaned, but that's a long way away.
-Have MIL watch baby in her home since she lives 20 minutes away en route to husband's job and is retired. MIL is the anti-baby-whisperer, no way we could've known that baby would pick up on her anxious energy and not want to be around her all day, also baby is exclusively nursed (refuses the bottle) so out-of-home care is not an option anymore.
-Have a nanny come over to our house during the day while I work and still nurse on demand. The only girl we considered for this option got a great full-time gig right after baby was born, and we aren't ready to bring a stranger into our home quite yet.
-Work alternating shifts (husband days, me nights). This was comfortable since I've been working "nights and weekends" for 3 years now (getting my side gig off the ground and eventually turning it into self-employment). Turns out baby is a bear at bedtime and only wants mommy, so I end up being the "on" parent at night as well.

We knew a while back that traditional daycare was not for us (I didn't want to have kids just so I could pay someone else to raise them). The biggest thing we did to help was me being self-employed, which took TWO YEARS of me working two challenging engineering jobs to make that leap possible - we lived off of just my husband's income to know we could do it in case my side gig tanked, and we still do that, my self-employed income is 100% towards FIRE. It can be feast/famine from week to week so we knew we wanted our household budget based on his regular weekly paychecks. So..... how does it work in real life now? We have a 4-month old, and here's how we make it work without paying for childcare...

-Husband works 9/80 schedule (every other Friday off) - this is a HUGE benefit for us, and his employer recently suggested a 4-10 schedule that we want to try out when it becomes available. This means that every other Friday he is home to watch the baby 100% (except when I'm nursing) and I can get a big chunk of work done. This took some adjusting since that day used to be his play day, but he's learning ways to involve the baby in his hobbies - they jog together a lot & she watches him do stuff around the house.
-If I have work to do on any given day, nap time is work time. This was hard to get adjusted to ("sleep when the baby sleeps"), but it forces me to be extremely productive if I know I only have 30-45 minutes at a time to work. Again, I got conditioned to this type of work schedule over the past 2 years of having this side-gig and cranking out assignments between my day job and social life. This is tough considering what I do is pretty mentally challenging (mechanical engineering), so I make sure to save the most intellectually challenging parts of my job for when she's asleep. I do administrative tasks (invoicing, e-mails) while nursing or while she sits on my lap watching YouTube videos on my 2nd monitor.
-I don't do many conference calls, and anyone I call knows I have a baby in the room with me. This is a perk of being self-employed and picking my clients, they are all extremely baby friendly, one lady even brings her infant into the office with her.
-COFFEE... before baby it was my responsibility to make breakfast and coffee every morning, but now our morning routine consists of Daddy doing the first diaper change (he gets up early to shower/run and go to work outside of the home), brewing a pot of coffee, making us a smoothie and putting baby in her swing for some gentle wake-up time next to my bed. I get to sleep in during this process, about 30 minutes, which is great since I'm up for the middle-of-the-night feedings (not many, maybe 1-3 a night, we're lucky she sleeps well in her bassinet next to me). I drink 2 cups of coffee a day, any more and I get too jittery.
-Toys in the office: right now she's napping next to me in her swing (we have 2, one in our bedroom and one in the office). She just got done playing on her exercise mat (we have 2, one in the office and one in the living room). She is always entertained/occupied, and having duplicate sets of baby gear really helps so I'm not constantly dragging stuff throughout the house.
-Let her sleep anywhere she wants - I don't force the crib yet, she wakes up right away when I try it. If she falls asleep in the stroller when we're on a jog, I wheel her into the office with me and start working again until she wakes up.
-Lower expectations on cleanliness/housework (i.e. MMM recent article) - the house is messy. We have an infant, visitors deal with it. I keep it reasonably clean since physical clutter affects my sanity, but we don't clean as much as other folks. I often skip daily showers (got used to this in engineering school lol) since nap time is work time. Fancy dinners are out the window - husband makes a lot of salads, sandwiches for us.
-REMOTE DESKTOP - HUGE help... I can remote into my work computer (it's only one room away) from my laptop that sits on the couch with me, so if baby falls asleep on me on the couch and I become her "couch hostage", I just turn on the laptop and boom, start working right there. This is part of our bedtime routine too, she takes her pre-bedtime-nap on me on the couch while I work on the laptop and husband watches TV.

I started working again when baby was 5 weeks old, and I got very frustrated when I tried to fit her into my old routine. Instead, I followed her cues (and ignored every. single. person. who told us "you GOTTA get her on bottles", "you GOTTA get her sleeping in her crib", "you GOTTA get her on a sleep schedule"...) and she sets the pace. Her daily habits are becoming more regular, you can't set your watch by it but you can plan your day around it. Before she was born I worked about 35 hours/week (again for myself, from home), now I work between 12-20 depending on the workload. The best part about being self-employed is you aren't tied to a desk for 40 hours a week, you get your stuff done and move on with your life (kinda like getting your homework done early in college so you could enjoy the weekend). It incentivizes me to work efficiently and smarter instead of sitting my butt still and "making it take an hour" like in the 9-5 consulting world.

Regarding ESP - my husband still works full time and he took a 2 week paternity leave. As soon as he went back to work they sent him across the country for 2 weeks back-to-back work travel, it forced me to learn how to take care of my baby by myself (sink or swim), my mom didn't come to visit until baby was 2 months old. The best part of that book was the notion that you don't need boobs to do every single parenting task. For example, my husband is just as capable of calling the pediatrician and scheduling a well-baby visit as I am (and he does now). That said, sometimes baby just needs mommy and we have to respect her needs (especially during growth spurts where she nurses all day long). I work not because we need the income, but because we want to retire early (when baby is just starting kindergarten) and me sacrificing sleep/cleanliness/free time now is going to allow us to have that much more time with her as she's growing up.

[fidgiegirl]

I inquired about my boss's openness to a part time arrangement.  She said she'd think about it.  Not sure if I should have asked or not, but we never would have known if it were an option without breaching it.  Would be more disappointing, I think, to have my heart set on it and being told no when going to request it.

Thanks for all the ideas and feedback, everyone, keep the ideas comin' if you have some new ones . . .