Car-less with Kids

[emily2244]

Hi,

We sold our car about 6 weeks ago, since I quit the job that I was driving to. Things have been good so far. But I wonder about it's affect on my kids. I have a 3 year old and a 5 month old. The 5 month old is too young for the trailer, so we are walking everywhere. We don't have too many places to be, but starting in the Fall, my 3 year old will have about 4 activities a week that we will be walking to, and each will be about 1.7 miles away. I bought a used double jogging stroller and have been walking the kids into town. My three year old will usually walk the whole time (which often ends up being around 4 miles). That is a lot to ask a three year old to do daily, right? Also, it takes about 30 minutes to walk into town. I'm not sure about having my little one in the stroller for these long walks. I feel guilty about him just sitting there for so long. The other thing is- how will this work in the winter? Is it proper to have the little one in the stroller for that length in the cold? How will I keep him warm enough? Any thoughts?  I'm a little afraid of having other parents tell me I'm crazy.

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

Well, either the three-year-old will walk it or he won't, right? If he gets tired, he can get in the stroller? I read in a Montessori parenting book that kids can walk a mile per year of age. I wouldn't DEMAND it of a three-year-old every day, but it's not outlandish.

I don't know what kind of climate you live in, but baby will probably be fine if well-bundled. You could also carry him in a front carrier with a too-large coat zipped over his feet, if you can picture it--that's what I used to do.

Some sources say that kids who can sit well independently can ride short, flat distances in a trailer even under a year. And my trailer at least is pretty well protected from the cold--could be another option.

Good luck going car-free! Pretty bad-ass, mama!

[TeresaB]

It sounds like you have been doing these walks before? If the three year old is not whining or being cranky or obviously exhausted from the walking, then I say continue. And you say the stroller is double, so he can always ride if he gets tired. If he has a choice between walking and stroller and he picks walking, you're not wearing him out too much.

It's perfectly possible to keep your baby warm enough to be outside. I'm not sure where you live, but just make sure he has mittens and a hat, and, if it gets very cold, that not much of his skin is exposed. I was also going to suggest that you could get a baby carrier and a coat that's too large for you and carry the baby inside your coat. Just make sure he can breathe and that he isn't getting too hot.

[Hannah]

We are transitioning to being a no car family, but we only have one kid. We don't use a trailer, instead we use a baby seat (milk crates for groceries since we live <1 mile from the store we can go multiple times if necessary).

Would you be willing to start a journal? I would like to learn from your family's experience.

[SisterX]

Ooh!  I have experience with a baby in cold!  Mine was born last November.  The day we brought her home from the hospital it was -35F.  I don't know what your temps are, but probably not so extreme? 

Everything I read online said that it was perfectly ok to take your baby out for walks as long as it was over freezing.  I talked to the doc and was like, "Soooo...April?"  He laughed and said, "No, it's perfectly fine to take the baby out, well bundled, throughout winter."  My personal cutoff temp was about 0F, though I know there were days I took her out (yes, even as an infant) in colder temps, for short periods of time, like 15-20 minutes.  At the time, since she was so little, I had her in: onesie, socks, sleeper with feet, hat, snow suit.  I also carried her in the Moby wrap (another layer) to keep her close to my body heat and had a coat which couldn't quite wrap around both of us, but which I could hold over most of her if I thought she was getting cold.  She ALWAYS fell asleep on our walks, and she never felt cold when we got back home so she definitely stayed warm enough.

For an older child, especially in a stroller, things should be even easier.  What I'm planning for this winter is to bundle her up again--though not as extremely--then put her in the jogger (ours has a cover, so it can keep some of her body heat in) with a heavy blanket or two and perhaps a hot water bottle or rice bag for a little added heat.  Doing all of this, I think it's reasonable that I can walk with her all winter here, at least on the days and for the same length of time as I'd normally feel comfortable taking the dog out walking.  If it's too snowy/icy for the jogger, I'll put her in the Ergo and wrap a heavy blanket around her, tucking it in so that her feet stay warm.  I've done that before and it works well.  Her cheeks are the only parts which get chilled, and no more so than mine.  Probably less so, actually, since I rub her cheeks fairly often to make sure they stay warm.

There are all kinds of studies showing that being out in nature is good for kids and I don't think that having a little one in a stroller for so long is bad.  My girl loves to be out, either in the carrier or the jogger/bike trailer, and I usually use that time to call friends and family because it's one of the few times she's quiet enough for me to do so.  :)  She takes it all in, and I've had her out for walks of 45 minutes at a time and multiple long-ish walks/rides per day.  It's also really nice when she's tired but doesn't really need a nap, just some quiet time.  We get home and she's refreshed, happy, and ready to get moving again.

As for the 3 year old, I agree with everyone else that if she's comfortable walking for that distance/length of time, let her.  Just make sure she knows that the stroller is always available for her should she get tired.

[Hvillian]

As others have said, the three-year old will walk as much as desired, and then get in the stroller.  And at that age he should have no problem letting you know if he/she gets hot, cold, thirsty, etc.

I used to jog quite a bit with our first child after she was about 7-8 months old.  We had a full body fleece suit for the winter (with enclosed hands and feet) and she had no problems (coldest temps around freezing here).  I would periodically check her fingers for cold and head for sweat, and adjust her accordingly (remove hat/hood, add a little blanket).  In the summer, I would try to keep the stroller top adjusted for shade.  And always keep offering a drink, once they are old enough for that.

Congratulations on walking so much.  I love taking my kids places in the stroller, and am happy when we can take the time to get places on foot.  I won't tell you how to feel, but I would not feel guilty about the time spent in the stroller. I think sitting in a stroller going places is about as good as it gets for a kid.  There is so much to see, hear, and smell.  You can talk and sing to them.  They can get in a short nap if they feel like it, or have a drink and snack.

[PloddingInsight]

I read in a Montessori parenting book that kids can walk a mile per year of age.

Crazy talk.

Right now I have kids aged 8, 6, 3, and 1.  They are active and their personality type leans towards cooperative in comparison to other kids their age.  But none of them are going to walk their age in miles without collapsing in a sticky pile of complaints.

[Kmp2]

http://www.copenhagencyclechic.com/2011/02/oh-baby.html

I got a kick out of this! But alas if you live in north america some of this might get you in trouble... I am still dying to try it anyway!

In a stroller with a zip down wind proof enclosure (like most bike trailer's I've seen), they will be perfectly warm and create their own tent like environment. You can even add a hot water bag in there too for particularly cold days. We had a down sleeping bag that had holes for the stroller straps in the back, it had a hood, and zipped her arms up inside as well. She was always quite toasty, but we probably only walked a 2 miles at a time and not much below -15C (5F). This winter we will be out and about alot more, I'm back to my adventurous self!

I had her in a front snuggli hiking & camping in Yellowstone in the snowy wind last September (at 5 months)... she was very well bundled, but the visitors from the more sunny states would always comment about how cold she must be. I guess it probably was colder than their winters already, I just laughed and asked how they thought she would make it through my winter up in Canada? The more northern visitors had no problems with it. So the comments you are going to get probably depend on what everyone else is used to, and not on whether it's safe or not.

[emily2244]

http://www.copenhagencyclechic.com/2011/02/oh-baby.html

Oh man, I WISH I could just put the baby in the bike trailer. I am thinking about starting to put him in the trailer at 9 or 10 months. I believe he will start walking in a month or two, so I feel that he would be strong enough. Also, we will be biking on flat, quiet, 25 mph road with a huge bike lane. But, I still worry about someone thinking it is irresponsible and calling the police.

I know that it seems obvious that the 3 year old will walk if he wants to, but I've had several neighbors raise eyebrows at it. As if it is irresponsible....

Thanks for all of the suggestions.

For early winter, I think I'll get a conversion kit to turn the bike trailer into a stroller, since that way I can have the "tent" for extra warmth. Also, people probably can't see inside it as easily, and I won't get as many raised eyebrows.

I like the idea of using the ergo with a cover. I worry about having back pain, which I had a bit with my first, but maybe I should just go for it.

[emily2244]

That was my first try at using the quote thingy. I guess I didn't quite get it right.

[Hvillian]

But none of them are going to walk their age in miles without collapsing in a sticky pile of complaints.

I really liked this very accurate description.  I am going to be using that in the future.

Mine are 6, 4, and almost 2.  They could probably go around their age in miles on a shaded trail.  Otherwise, it is increasing complaints as distance increases, especially the 4-year-old.  Like others have said, I wouldn't demand it of them very often, but I think they can go further than they pretend when they don't feel like it.  If it was part of a daily routine, I think they'd get used to it pretty quickly.

[Christof]

The 5 month old is too young for the trailer, so we are walking everywhere.

Our's was about that age when we started with the trailer. There are special seats available for infants aged 3 to 12 months. Seat might be misleading. It is more like a hammock. Here is what they look like

http://croozerdesigns.com/accessories/croozer-kid/baby-seat/

We obviously picked up ours used, since most people only use them for a few months and leave them in almost new condition.

[SisterX]

The 5 month old is too young for the trailer, so we are walking everywhere.

Our's was about that age when we started with the trailer. There are special seats available for infants aged 3 to 12 months. Seat might be misleading. It is more like a hammock. Here is what they look like

http://croozerdesigns.com/accessories/croozer-kid/baby-seat/

We obviously picked up ours used, since most people only use them for a few months and leave them in almost new condition.

Mine was sitting up on her own at about 5 1/2 months, which was about the time the snow cleared up enough for me to bike again, so that's when I started mine in the trailer.  She loves it and we've never had a problem, either with her or with nasty comments/raised eyebrows.  Maybe it's my area?  I think if anyone did comment on it I'd point out that around the world, most babies are frequently transported by bike or by some sort of wearable carrier and that it's only here where it's considered strange.

http://www.copenhagencyclechic.com/2011/02/oh-baby.html

That made me want to live in Copenhagen so much!!!!

[Thegoblinchief]

I didn't get into biking places until recently, but there are so many ways to carry kids on or behind a cycle that you can get it done. Ditto with a stroller, but after biking for close to a year now, walking to GET somewhere (versus hiking/exploring) is just painfully slow.

I don't see how an infant car seat strapped into a trailer wouldn't work for kids under 9 months. Over 9 months, the best option would be the ride-a-long seat that attaches behind the handlebars. Those are pretty sweet looking. Can't remember the brand name.

Denmark is also the country that (traditionally) puts bundled infants down for naps outside in the in cold.

We have two cars still, but only use mine for grocery trips, and only then because the stores near us are terrible or super pricey (usually both). It's unfortunately well worth a 10 mile drive to get to the nice and cheap store.

[Kepler]

We don't have a car, and live a 20-minute-fast-adult walk from stores and public transport (so 40 minutes round trip).  Our two-year-old regularly walks with us to the shops and back - and will often insist on carrying a bag of groceries too...  The walk takes twice as much time when she does it, and often also becomes longer in absolute distance, as she wants to divert along the way.  There's a hill in the final stretch to our house that is steep enough that adults can get a bit puffed dragging groceries up it: some times, she's fine with that part; some times, she needs a lift. 

We also often go for very long walks - half a day or more - with her alternating walking and the stroller when she gets tired. 

As long as the stroller is available as a backup, I'd imagine your three-year-old would be fine.

[Thegoblinchief]

As long as the stroller is available as a backup, I'd imagine your three-year-old would be fine.

This is what we do for my 4 year old walking to the library (3 mile roundtrip). We bring the stroller because sometimes he gets tired on the way back. Regardless, it carries an awful lot of books in the bottom of it, that way I don't have to carry a heavy backpack ;)

[Kmp2]

Can't remember the brand name.

It's a yepp (although there are others) - we just bought the version that goes on the rear rack of a bike. The bike shop didn't recommend the front one between you and the handlebars unless you have an upright bike. My hybrid is built more like a light mountain bike - but I wanted a fasterish bike to commute my 10.5k one-way to work.

[JoyBlogette]

I think it's awesome!  Way to go!  Our little guy loved riding in the stroller in the winter around the neighbourhood.  Just make sure the baby is bundled up appropriately.  I think it's fine.  You can always give him toys to play with or sing songs or play games as you walk to up the entertainment-factor.  Have fun!

[chouchouu]

We've never had a car and our twins are two. You can actually buy pram suits made especially for taking them out in winter. They have a hole for the seat buckle and zip around, they always come up on our Facebook swap and I'm sure eBay have them too. For the toddler you can always add a stroller board so he can stand on that when he gets tired. My girls never had a problem with long rides, we actually took them out for naps since the movement soothed them.  I guess go for a stroller with pneumatic tires and suspension, that makes getting through snow and dirt easier.

[former player]

I walked to school from the age of 4: a mile and a half twice a day, and no harm done - I barely noticed it was exercise.  Walks before that were probably shorter but more frequent: walks to the shop, to kindergarten, for recreation at weekends (the car only came out on rare occasions).  Kids need exercise if they are to be fit and grow strong bones, and walking is a good one.  It's all to easy to see kids of three and up stuck in a chair when they should be walking - I suspect it's because its easy and convenient for the parents, rather than the walking being beyond the capabilities of the child.  And a walking habit established early will be a benefit all the child's life.

[Cassie]

We were a one car family for many years in cold Wis. I always took the kids places in the stroller. The key is to bundle they well but not so well that they sweat.  Depending on ages & distances there were also times that we rode the bus.

[theconcierge]

Google bullitt cargo bike - that's what I am going to be using!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Thegoblinchief]

Google bullitt cargo bike - that's what I am going to be using!

There's a guy in my area with one of those. It's a really sweet looking bike, but pricy. Bakfiets in general are a great design. If I'd gotten into biking when my kids were smaller, I would have gotten one, or maybe a design like the Madsen.

[chouchouu]

I just recently bought a bike from eBay that would be perfect for your needs. It's called a "taga bike" and it fits two kids. The smaller seat comes with a booster which would be perfect for your younger child. It's a bit pricey but obviously cheaper than a car and much nicer. If you buy it second hand like I did you should be able to sell it for a similar price. It's so nice to be able to cycle somewhere and then not have to look for parking! It's very comfortable too, my girls always fall asleep coming back from outings.