Author Topic: Any double Stay-At-Home-Parents here?  (Read 2998 times)

startingout

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Any double Stay-At-Home-Parents here?
« on: August 21, 2023, 01:15:00 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 10, 2023, 07:42:07 PM by startingout »

SmashYourSmartPhone

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Re: Any double Stay-At-Home-Parents here?
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2023, 10:34:25 AM »
Why, then, do you ask about double stay at home parents, if your actual interest is in people who have transitioned from both parents working to one staying at home?  That will not get the people you desire reading the thread.

The value of a stay at home parent (I work, my wife stays at home) is not just in the reduced childcare - it is in having the time to spend more efficiently as well.  Our kids are substantially clothed and toyed from thrift stores, yard sales, etc, and they (well, at least one of them...) enjoys getting to go out and help hunt for stuff there.

If you've filled your monthly financial bucket with obligations, it's harder to transition than if you have large amounts of slack in your finances.

reeshau

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Re: Any double Stay-At-Home-Parents here?
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2023, 02:22:18 PM »
We FIRE'd in 2020, with a now-8-year-old.  I'm 52 now, so older both as a FIRE-ee and parent.  Retirement is funky when you are still beholden to the school calendar.

During the school year, we do many weekend-y things (for working folk): grocery runs / errands, etc.  Otherwise, school day is downtime.  Chill, watch movies / TV not suited for DS yet, together time.

We try to keep weekends mostly for fun things:  we are mindful DS has had a week of school, and needs to blow off some steam.  We do some chores, too, to both develop his understanding of that need, and demonstrate to him.

Summer is about he purest retirement time.  We spent last summer in Europe.  Fancy-sounding things, but we really just went back to living there, so did it much cheaper than most doing the same.  If just staying at home, it can get intense to keep your little entertained.  It seems that my childhood memories, roaming far and wide with some friends doing whatever all day, all summer, have gone by the wayside.   Part of that are the times, and the relatively high profile of security threats.  Part of it is that we are home, of course, and able to think about it.  This past summer (school here is in its 3rd week already, despite 100+ degree days, every day) was our first summer largely at home.  We are learning to schedule play dates, activities, etc. with a summer cadence, rather than a school year cadence.

DS is in 3rd grade, so we are seriously considering an away summer camp next year, both to continue developing his independence as well as to give us a break.  My in-laws are in range, and although they are heavy traveller's themselves they are available for weekend visits for us to catch a local concert or something.

LiveLean

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Re: Any double Stay-At-Home-Parents here?
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2023, 10:32:02 AM »
Why, then, do you ask about double stay at home parents, if your actual interest is in people who have transitioned from both parents working to one staying at home?  That will not get the people you desire reading the thread.

The value of a stay at home parent (I work, my wife stays at home) is not just in the reduced childcare - it is in having the time to spend more efficiently as well.  Our kids are substantially clothed and toyed from thrift stores, yard sales, etc, and they (well, at least one of them...) enjoys getting to go out and help hunt for stuff there.

If you've filled your monthly financial bucket with obligations, it's harder to transition than if you have large amounts of slack in your finances.

My husband is not of the FIRE mindset and doesn't think we can afford either person staying at home. I'm hoping if I know how double stay-at-home parents budget, I can manage to convince my husband. Our kids get a lot of their clothing and toys from grandparents and other relatives currently, but that will probably change once more of our siblings have kids. I also want to know how double stay-at-home parents divide up the chores and childcare. I'm hoping to divide up the chores and childcare relatively equally outside of standard working hours even if I stay home. I know that will seem unfair on the surface, but I had warned my husband almost a decade ago that I planned to FIRE around now, and even invited him to join me on the journey. But he maintained he'd keep working while I can do what I want.

Probably the reason you're getting so little response is that your hubby is not of the FIRE mindset. You've been trying to convince him for 10 years, to no avail. If you haven't managed to "divide up the chores and childcare relatively equally outside of standard working hours" to this point, what makes you think it will happen with one or two stay-at-home parents? You can get all of the advice you want out of these boards -- and there's a lot here -- but if your spouse isn't onboard, it's not going to work. Maybe some marriage counseling is in order. Good luck.

startingout

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Re: Any double Stay-At-Home-Parents here?
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2023, 09:25:56 AM »
We FIRE'd in 2020, with a now-8-year-old.  I'm 52 now, so older both as a FIRE-ee and parent.  Retirement is funky when you are still beholden to the school calendar.

During the school year, we do many weekend-y things (for working folk): grocery runs / errands, etc.  Otherwise, school day is downtime.  Chill, watch movies / TV not suited for DS yet, together time.

We try to keep weekends mostly for fun things:  we are mindful DS has had a week of school, and needs to blow off some steam.  We do some chores, too, to both develop his understanding of that need, and demonstrate to him.

Summer is about he purest retirement time.  We spent last summer in Europe.  Fancy-sounding things, but we really just went back to living there, so did it much cheaper than most doing the same.  If just staying at home, it can get intense to keep your little entertained.  It seems that my childhood memories, roaming far and wide with some friends doing whatever all day, all summer, have gone by the wayside.   Part of that are the times, and the relatively high profile of security threats.  Part of it is that we are home, of course, and able to think about it.  This past summer (school here is in its 3rd week already, despite 100+ degree days, every day) was our first summer largely at home.  We are learning to schedule play dates, activities, etc. with a summer cadence, rather than a school year cadence.

DS is in 3rd grade, so we are seriously considering an away summer camp next year, both to continue developing his independence as well as to give us a break.  My in-laws are in range, and although they are heavy traveller's themselves they are available for weekend visits for us to catch a local concert or something.

Thanks for sharing! That sounds like a beautiful lifestyle. What kind of place did you stay at when you spent the summer in Europe?

reeshau

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Re: Any double Stay-At-Home-Parents here?
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2023, 12:25:21 PM »
Thanks for sharing! That sounds like a beautiful lifestyle. What kind of place did you stay at when you spent the summer in Europe?

Generally, Airbnb's in terraced homes.  (townhomes)  While not so slow as "slow travel," we tried to spend a minimum of a week at a place.

We did end up in a hotel for a couple of days.  Dublin, along with many larger cities facing high housing costs, has put the squeeze on short term rentals.  So the supply was not great.  In the West of Ireland, it was no problem.  Frankly, the Paris area, too.  (we stayed in Boulogne, just West of Roland Garros)

rothwem

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Re: Any double Stay-At-Home-Parents here?
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2023, 08:37:05 AM »
Why, then, do you ask about double stay at home parents, if your actual interest is in people who have transitioned from both parents working to one staying at home?  That will not get the people you desire reading the thread.

The value of a stay at home parent (I work, my wife stays at home) is not just in the reduced childcare - it is in having the time to spend more efficiently as well.  Our kids are substantially clothed and toyed from thrift stores, yard sales, etc, and they (well, at least one of them...) enjoys getting to go out and help hunt for stuff there.

If you've filled your monthly financial bucket with obligations, it's harder to transition than if you have large amounts of slack in your finances.

My husband is not of the FIRE mindset and doesn't think we can afford either person staying at home. I'm hoping if I know how double stay-at-home parents budget, I can manage to convince my husband. Our kids get a lot of their clothing and toys from grandparents and other relatives currently, but that will probably change once more of our siblings have kids. I also want to know how double stay-at-home parents divide up the chores and childcare. I'm hoping to divide up the chores and childcare relatively equally outside of standard working hours even if I stay home. I know that will seem unfair on the surface, but I had warned my husband almost a decade ago that I planned to FIRE around now, and even invited him to join me on the journey. But he maintained he'd keep working while I can do what I want.

Probably the reason you're getting so little response is that your hubby is not of the FIRE mindset. You've been trying to convince him for 10 years, to no avail. If you haven't managed to "divide up the chores and childcare relatively equally outside of standard working hours" to this point, what makes you think it will happen with one or two stay-at-home parents? You can get all of the advice you want out of these boards -- and there's a lot here -- but if your spouse isn't onboard, it's not going to work. Maybe some marriage counseling is in order. Good luck.

Our chores are evenly divided now, but I want to maintain the same division if I FIRE and he continues working.

Hahahaha, so you want to stop working and have him do the same amount of home chores?  Where do you add value then?  I'm not surprised he's against you staying at home. 

Personally, I think I should stop working and have my wife work, do chores, take care of the kids and cook meals while I ride mountain bikes all day and play with the kids (after they're fed, clothed and bathed, of course).  I'm not sure why my wife is against it though?

charis

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Re: Any double Stay-At-Home-Parents here?
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2023, 09:23:01 AM »
Why, then, do you ask about double stay at home parents, if your actual interest is in people who have transitioned from both parents working to one staying at home?  That will not get the people you desire reading the thread.

The value of a stay at home parent (I work, my wife stays at home) is not just in the reduced childcare - it is in having the time to spend more efficiently as well.  Our kids are substantially clothed and toyed from thrift stores, yard sales, etc, and they (well, at least one of them...) enjoys getting to go out and help hunt for stuff there.

If you've filled your monthly financial bucket with obligations, it's harder to transition than if you have large amounts of slack in your finances.

My husband is not of the FIRE mindset and doesn't think we can afford either person staying at home. I'm hoping if I know how double stay-at-home parents budget, I can manage to convince my husband. Our kids get a lot of their clothing and toys from grandparents and other relatives currently, but that will probably change once more of our siblings have kids. I also want to know how double stay-at-home parents divide up the chores and childcare. I'm hoping to divide up the chores and childcare relatively equally outside of standard working hours even if I stay home. I know that will seem unfair on the surface, but I had warned my husband almost a decade ago that I planned to FIRE around now, and even invited him to join me on the journey. But he maintained he'd keep working while I can do what I want.

Probably the reason you're getting so little response is that your hubby is not of the FIRE mindset. You've been trying to convince him for 10 years, to no avail. If you haven't managed to "divide up the chores and childcare relatively equally outside of standard working hours" to this point, what makes you think it will happen with one or two stay-at-home parents? You can get all of the advice you want out of these boards -- and there's a lot here -- but if your spouse isn't onboard, it's not going to work. Maybe some marriage counseling is in order. Good luck.

Our chores are evenly divided now, but I want to maintain the same division if I FIRE and he continues working.

Hahahaha, so you want to stop working and have him do the same amount of home chores?  Where do you add value then?  I'm not surprised he's against you staying at home. 

Personally, I think I should stop working and have my wife work, do chores, take care of the kids and cook meals while I ride mountain bikes all day and play with the kids (after they're fed, clothed and bathed, of course).  I'm not sure why my wife is against it though?

What about splitting the chores evenly during non-working hours says to you - one person rides bikes all day and plays with kids while the other does everything else and works all day?

It sounds like OP can retire, but the husband does not want to.  Why does the OP need to add more value to justify FIRE?

Kmp2

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Re: Any double Stay-At-Home-Parents here?
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2023, 11:43:29 AM »
Op is adding value, the value of all the savings/investments/work that went into becoming able to FIRE. The interest/payments from the nest egg is a return to the family for the work they've already put in.

To the OP, it's a tough go if your partner can't recognize that you've already put the value in that allows you to take this time and still contribute. It helps if you contribute in otherways than paid work. Not necessarily chores though. Volunteering, studying, or doing your chores in a way that takes time but reduce expenses. For example, meal prep/planning that prevents takeout, or shopping by bike (ok so I'm seriously bike biased), getting by with only one car because you can get around in otherways with your extra time.

While I'm technically still employed, I see myself as FIRED because I can take contracts/employment as I choose. I have definitely chosen to take a lower paying contract because I love it. I also went back to university and got a graduate degree. So we still split childcare/chores reasonably well, because he sees my time as full with tasks that have either extrinsic value (like me using my time biking all over the place so we only have to pay for one car), or intrinsic value (my education and volunteering with the kids). While I don't replace all of my income by using money from my nest egg (we've decided it was better to keep accumulating), I have reduced our costs, earned part time, occasional income, and enriched our lives in a way the makes up the difference. This is, of course, an ever evolving discussion and our solutions keep changing.

edited a typo
« Last Edit: August 30, 2023, 04:52:49 PM by Kmp2 »

Mr. Green

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Re: Any double Stay-At-Home-Parents here?
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2023, 11:17:25 PM »
We've been FIREd over six years now. We have an 18-month old right now. Our day to day is pretty flexible, but it is still based around our daughters limitations. We never did sleep train so our daughter demands more of my wife's time because she goes so sleep with her for naps and at night. Sometimes my wife is able to get away after she's asleep, sometimes not. We've considered sleep training but there are some beautiful moments waking up with her as a family and she might be or only child so we feel like it's a worthwhile trade.

I can't say what school will look like. We'll likely homeschool early on so we have greater travel flexibility but I don't know how long that will go. Right now we're traveling about 3 months out of the year, but it could become half the year as our daughter becomes more independent.

Chores are probably slightly more on my wife but we try to keep things pretty even. We don't eat out a ton. Vacations are long, slow travel trips. Not sure if we'll save a lot for college. I need to understand the FAFSA formula better before we dump significant funds into accounts in our daughter's name.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2023, 11:20:48 PM by Mr. Green »

gatortator

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Re: Any double Stay-At-Home-Parents here?
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2023, 07:58:49 AM »

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Re: Any double Stay-At-Home-Parents here?
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2023, 11:51:24 AM »
The key question is, did he agree to that 10 years ago and it's never been mentioned since? Or is this something you've been discussing and refining regularly over a 10 year period?

rothwem

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Re: Any double Stay-At-Home-Parents here?
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2023, 05:28:25 AM »
Why, then, do you ask about double stay at home parents, if your actual interest is in people who have transitioned from both parents working to one staying at home?  That will not get the people you desire reading the thread.

The value of a stay at home parent (I work, my wife stays at home) is not just in the reduced childcare - it is in having the time to spend more efficiently as well.  Our kids are substantially clothed and toyed from thrift stores, yard sales, etc, and they (well, at least one of them...) enjoys getting to go out and help hunt for stuff there.

If you've filled your monthly financial bucket with obligations, it's harder to transition than if you have large amounts of slack in your finances.

My husband is not of the FIRE mindset and doesn't think we can afford either person staying at home. I'm hoping if I know how double stay-at-home parents budget, I can manage to convince my husband. Our kids get a lot of their clothing and toys from grandparents and other relatives currently, but that will probably change once more of our siblings have kids. I also want to know how double stay-at-home parents divide up the chores and childcare. I'm hoping to divide up the chores and childcare relatively equally outside of standard working hours even if I stay home. I know that will seem unfair on the surface, but I had warned my husband almost a decade ago that I planned to FIRE around now, and even invited him to join me on the journey. But he maintained he'd keep working while I can do what I want.

Probably the reason you're getting so little response is that your hubby is not of the FIRE mindset. You've been trying to convince him for 10 years, to no avail. If you haven't managed to "divide up the chores and childcare relatively equally outside of standard working hours" to this point, what makes you think it will happen with one or two stay-at-home parents? You can get all of the advice you want out of these boards -- and there's a lot here -- but if your spouse isn't onboard, it's not going to work. Maybe some marriage counseling is in order. Good luck.

Our chores are evenly divided now, but I want to maintain the same division if I FIRE and he continues working.

Hahahaha, so you want to stop working and have him do the same amount of home chores?  Where do you add value then?  I'm not surprised he's against you staying at home. 

Personally, I think I should stop working and have my wife work, do chores, take care of the kids and cook meals while I ride mountain bikes all day and play with the kids (after they're fed, clothed and bathed, of course).  I'm not sure why my wife is against it though?

No, I want us both to retire and live frugally, but he does not. My compromise is that I retire and live frugally while he continues working (this is also what he had verbally agreed to 10 years ago, though I won't hold that over his head).

Well I hope your divorce is amicable. 

I can just imagine my wife reaction when she has a rough day at the office, coming home to a sink full of dishes and me in my PJs after having a rough day watching an entire season of the British baking show.  “But babe I folded the towels! Why’re you so mad?” “Maybe you should’ve spent less on your half of the kids daycare, food and clothing, then you’d be able to retire too!”.

Am I just reading this wrong?

 
Op is adding value, the value of all the savings/investments/work that went into becoming able to FIRE. The interest/payments from the nest egg is a return to the family for the work they've already put in.


It sounds like their finances are separate, so her index funds aren’t benefiting the partnership.

WorkingToUnwind

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Re: Any double Stay-At-Home-Parents here?
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2023, 12:05:38 PM »
We're not both fired but maybe my perspective could still help. I work 3 days a week and my husband works full-time. We have a nanny the three days I work. Our kids are 3 and 1.5. We view childcare as one all consuming job and don't expect the person watching the kids to multitask. Hubs does all the cooking and dishes and I play with the kids during that time. We just hired a housekeeper for once a month and we both work to keep the house tidy in between visit, though I tend to putter about putting things away more. Lawn and vehicle care goes to him, which he's able to do because I watch the kids during that time. We have pretty equal veg out time. So, we're both always doing something or vegging at the same time, I just tend to do more of the childcare work and he does he rest. I often take the kids to the grocery store or scrub the toilet during naptimes, but if the day is too hectic to get that stuff done, nobody's mad. He enjoys this mix because he'll pop in his earbuds and have some alone time cooking or mowing while I tend to the little cavemen children. In a couple years he's going to quit his job and I might drop to two days a week. At that point we'll take turns watching the kids and going mountain biking :)

WorkingToUnwind

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Re: Any double Stay-At-Home-Parents here?
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2023, 07:13:31 PM »
It's not bad, but a full-time nanny and housekeeper twice a month would be pretty sweet! I just figured I'd post because the take away is that childcare is considered it's own full-time job that is equal in weight to working or doing household stuff. I think a lot of the time the caregiver gets loaded up with all the household duties too. If you have the resources, I think it's more fair to parse things out.

clarkfan1979

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Re: Any double Stay-At-Home-Parents here?
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2023, 05:46:33 PM »
Are there any families here with young kids where both parents are retired or stay at home? Such as what MMM had.

If so, what does your day-to-day look like? What about summers when school is out? How do childcare and chores get split up? What do vacations and dining out look like? What about college savings?

I'm not looking to do the same, but am curious because I want to transition us to having a single stay-at-home-parent but need to convince my spouse that we can afford it.

Two parents with one child who is 6 years old.

I technically have a full-time job, but my hours are more part-time. I teach community college and my salary is 60K, but I could make 120K at a corporate job. I'm on campus 8:00-2:00 (M-Th), which is 24 hours/week. I work from home another 3-5 hours/week. I work 32 weeks and have 20 weeks of vacation.

My wife is a substitute teacher and works 2.5 days/week (7:30-3:30), at our son's school. We all walk to school together. We are an 8 minute walk to the elementary school and 5 minute walk to the middle school. She also works 32 weeks/year with 20 weeks of vacation. She makes $180/day, so it totals $14,400/year. She makes another $10,000 working as a virtual assistant for a real estate agent. She works about 5 hours/week about 50 weeks/year.

We have 3 rentals and spend about 200 hours/year on management and repairs.

I think our current situation is way better than two parents both working 50 hours/week and making $200,000 as a couple. Our total hours worked combined is around 2,050/year, which is technically less than 1 person full-time (2,080 hours).

WorkingToUnwind

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Re: Any double Stay-At-Home-Parents here?
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2023, 06:12:59 PM »
Are there any families here with young kids where both parents are retired or stay at home? Such as what MMM had.

If so, what does your day-to-day look like? What about summers when school is out? How do childcare and chores get split up? What do vacations and dining out look like? What about college savings?

I'm not looking to do the same, but am curious because I want to transition us to having a single stay-at-home-parent but need to convince my spouse that we can afford it.

Two parents with one child who is 6 years old.

I technically have a full-time job, but my hours are more part-time. I teach community college and my salary is 60K, but I could make 120K at a corporate job. I'm on campus 8:00-2:00 (M-Th), which is 24 hours/week. I work from home another 3-5 hours/week. I work 32 weeks and have 20 weeks of vacation.

My wife is a substitute teacher and works 2.5 days/week (7:30-3:30), at our son's school. We all walk to school together. We are an 8 minute walk to the elementary school and 5 minute walk to the middle school. She also works 32 weeks/year with 20 weeks of vacation. She makes $180/day, so it totals $14,400/year. She makes another $10,000 working as a virtual assistant for a real estate agent. She works about 5 hours/week about 50 weeks/year.

We have 3 rentals and spend about 200 hours/year on management and repairs.

I think our current situation is way better than two parents both working 50 hours/week and making $200,000 as a couple. Our total hours worked combined is around 2,050/year, which is technically less than 1 person full-time (2,080 hours).

That is a sweet set up!

ender

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Re: Any double Stay-At-Home-Parents here?
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2023, 07:21:23 AM »
Our chores are evenly divided now, but I want to maintain the same division if I FIRE and he continues working.

If you end up quitting your job and do not absorb the majority of the household chores/tasks, you will be by far the exception statistically.

IMO, your partner needs to be fully onboard this outcome and believe in it for this to have even a chance of working the way you want it to. And I've not really seen anything in this thread making me feel like this arrangement is going to happen if you FIRE.


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Re: Any double Stay-At-Home-Parents here?
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2023, 04:05:56 PM »
Our chores are evenly divided now, but I want to maintain the same division if I FIRE and he continues working.

If you end up quitting your job and do not absorb the majority of the household chores/tasks, you will be by far the exception statistically.

IMO, your partner needs to be fully onboard this outcome and believe in it for this to have even a chance of working the way you want it to. And I've not really seen anything in this thread making me feel like this arrangement is going to happen if you FIRE.

I agree, though it's been a while so maybe OP has an update.

DH and I look at our money as *our* money, and did when I was still working full time and after I wasn't.  But we also kinda look at our time, collectively, as *our* time.  I wouldn't be okay with the money he makes being ours, but then they time I have from not working (because he does) as mine.  So yeah, I'm the one who washes the sheets and takes the dog to the vet and does the grocery shopping.  And keeps the calendar and plans the travel and stays home when a worker is scheduled to come perform some repair.

If our finances were entirely separate, I could see how it might make sense that the time allocations would be mostly separate as well.  My buying my week time by quitting my job would be at the expense of my money, so that time could be argued as being mine.  But with the money combined, if the roles were reversed I would think it pretty unreasonable if DH wanted me to do 50% of the housework while I worked 40+ hours a week and he didn't. 

If I thought we were collectively ready for FIRE and he didn't and wanted to keep working, I'd probably insist on throwing that extra money on what would otherwise be his half of the chores.  Weekly housekeeper, maybe grocery delivery or a meal prep service, etc.  It wouldn't be me taking on (or keeping) more than 50% of the chores, but it would be him trading money that he insisted on earning for his half.