Author Topic: 529 and FAFSA - Is 529 still a good idea?  (Read 3127 times)

Junglebot

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529 and FAFSA - Is 529 still a good idea?
« on: February 11, 2020, 12:50:00 PM »
This is something we've been struggling with for some time, so I'm hoping some wiser folks out there can help.  We're planning to be retired by the time baby is in college, and will likely be relatively low on the visible income scale.  We've run out of 401k / IRA room, and are trying to figure out where else to place savings (taxable vs. 529 vs. super safe savings).  We're fully intending to help with college costs if baby wants to go (my parents didn't, but their low income helped me significantly for financial aid).

Is a 529 really a good idea if financial aid is a consideration in the future?  I know more things are considered on the CSS profile, but right now future FAFSAs would look pretty good.

DadJokes

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Re: 529 and FAFSA - Is 529 still a good idea?
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2020, 01:47:31 PM »
There are ethical considerations to consider when keeping your assets/income low so that your child can qualify for more financial aid. Personally, I have no problem with using the law and rules as they are to my maximum benefit. Some people feel differently. But it's something that everyone should consider.

With that out of the way, I personally dislike the lack of flexibility of a 529. If your income is going to be fairly low, then you aren't going to be paying capital gains on the taxable brokerage income anyway.

SuperSecretName

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Re: 529 and FAFSA - Is 529 still a good idea?
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2020, 02:04:50 PM »
Do you get a state tax benefit?  That would lend towards contributing to the 529 to at least max that annually.  If there is a trusted family member that can open the 529 in their name with your kid as the beneficiary, that's best.

Taxable and 529 are counted the same in FAFSA, so that shouldn't be a consideration.

Also, financial aid these days is more loan based than grant based.

SailingOnASmallSailboat

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Re: 529 and FAFSA - Is 529 still a good idea?
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2020, 02:25:37 PM »
Do you get a state tax benefit?  That would lend towards contributing to the 529 to at least max that annually.  If there is a trusted family member that can open the 529 in their name with your kid as the beneficiary, that's best.
     As a reminder, at least the way the laws are written now, when the kid uses that money it counts as THEIR income for the FAFSA, which is expected to be used at a much higher rate than yours. All moot if they don't touch the money until junior and senior year (FAFSA is based on 2 years prior taxes, meaning FAFSA for 2020-2021 school year is based on 2018 tax return)


Taxable and 529 are counted the same in FAFSA, so that shouldn't be a consideration.
     Taxable income is one thing; 529 plans are seen as savings. You're expected to be able to contribute a massive percentage of your income to your kids' college (from 22-47%) while the asset pull is much lower, 5.64%. Any money you pull from the 529 for qualified expenses does not count as income.

Also, financial aid these days is more loan based than grant based.
     Totally depends on the school. Where our second child is attending, they have the full amount of the federal subsidized loan amount ($3500) but about 10x that in grant aid. If our first child had aid, it would be all loan-based. It really depends on the school and what they have in the coffers.

Junglebot

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Re: 529 and FAFSA - Is 529 still a good idea?
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2020, 03:40:14 PM »
Thanks everyone!  This has been very helpful so far.

There are ethical considerations to consider when keeping your assets/income low so that your child can qualify for more financial aid. Personally, I have no problem with using the law and rules as they are to my maximum benefit. Some people feel differently. But it's something that everyone should consider.

With that out of the way, I personally dislike the lack of flexibility of a 529. If your income is going to be fairly low, then you aren't going to be paying capital gains on the taxable brokerage income anyway.

Agreed - same as with ACA subsidies (and a whole host of other things).  I haven't completely settled on how to handle this for our family, but am leaning towards working within the law to our maximum benefit.  It sure seems like all of the very rich folks are doing this.  If I decide I really have a problem with it in the future, I'll probably still take the aid and then find a way to contribute to a scholarship fund or something.  Good point on potentially skipping capital gains tax.

Do you get a state tax benefit?  That would lend towards contributing to the 529 to at least max that annually.  If there is a trusted family member that can open the 529 in their name with your kid as the beneficiary, that's best.

Ah, hadn't thought of that.  I'll look into the state tax.

As a reminder, at least the way the laws are written now, when the kid uses that money it counts as THEIR income for the FAFSA, which is expected to be used at a much higher rate than yours. All moot if they don't touch the money until junior and senior year (FAFSA is based on 2 years prior taxes, meaning FAFSA for 2020-2021 school year is based on 2018 tax return)

I didn't know it skipped a year when looking back - that'll add some flexibility!

Taxable income is one thing; 529 plans are seen as savings. You're expected to be able to contribute a massive percentage of your income to your kids' college (from 22-47%) while the asset pull is much lower, 5.64%. Any money you pull from the 529 for qualified expenses does not count as income.

Also good to know.  I'm assuming pulling from a Traditional IRA for education would also be seen as income vs. savings?

SailingOnASmallSailboat

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Re: 529 and FAFSA - Is 529 still a good idea?
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2020, 04:06:22 PM »

Also good to know.  I'm assuming pulling from a Traditional IRA for education would also be seen as income vs. savings?

When you take the distribution, as far as I can research, you'll owe income tax on the withdrawal but not the penalty; it will be seen by the FAFSA as income the following year.

Did you know that you can change the beneficiary of the 529 plan to someone within your family without any penalties? So if you decide to go back to school later on, you could use that 529 for your own education if it's not gone. I know you're not wild about the 529 but that might be something you were not aware of.

Laura33

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Re: 529 and FAFSA - Is 529 still a good idea?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2020, 07:54:03 AM »
529 is absolutely still a good deal, for at least 2 years' of expenses, particularly if you get the state tax deduction, and if your kids are still young.  The value of the 529 isn't so much in the tax deduction, although that helps; it's that you literally never pay any tax on the growth if you use the funds for educational expenses (and after 15-20 years, the growth is a major part of the account value).  A regular brokerage account, you're paying taxes on the dividends and capital gains your investments throw off every year, even if you don't ever see them.  So, sure, if you keep your income low enough in 15-20 years that you stay in the 0% CG tax bracket,* you don't pay taxes on the amount you cash in for college.  But you've already paid X number of years of taxes on Y dividends/capital gains, and the tax rate for those was based on your much higher current income.  So you have less money available to cover those college expenses.

But really, the question is how much choice do you want your kids to have over the schools they go to?  If your primary strategy is to keep your numbers low so you can rely on getting a great financial aid package, then your kids will need to go to the school that gives them the best package -- meaning more grants and fewer loans.  And that significantly narrows their options, because a lot of schools will (a) assume "affordable" parent contributions that are well above what any reasonable human would expect, and (b) use loans to fill the gap.  So if you don't want your kid -- and yourselves -- to have to take out a lot of loans, that often means is choosing a "safety" school -- there are a number of schools that are trying to improve their numbers and so will throw merit scholarships at highly-qualified kids to convince them to go there. 

I'm not disparaging this, btw; that is a perfectly valid path, and my DD applied to several safeties to see if the money they offered made it worthwhile to go there (spoiler:  it didn't).  But the stress that most of her friends went through trying to find the aid they needed to afford the schools they wanted really stuck with me.  We had saved a good chunk, and we made sure that DD applied only to schools that we could afford without relying on getting any aid at all.**  And I think my DD finally really "felt" her privilege when she realized how much less stressed she was because she didn't need to worry about that like all of her friends did, because she knew she could afford to go anywhere she was admitted. 

I know this is sort of rambling, but I guess the tl;dr is don't let the tail wag the dog.  Educate yourself on what "good financial aid" actually means -- all of the colleges now have net price calculators, so you can plug in your assumed income and assets and see how much they'd expect you to pay and how much you and your kids would be expected to borrow.  Then, after you pick yourself back up from the heart attack, figure out how much choice you want your kids to have in the process and how much choice you can afford to offer given the other demands on your budget, and put aside an amount to get you there. 


*Assuming it still exists, which I am totally not banking on.

**She is considering med school, so we really did not want any undergraduate loans, because any post-grad work will be on her dime.

SuperSecretName

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Re: 529 and FAFSA - Is 529 still a good idea?
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2020, 08:35:25 AM »
Do you get a state tax benefit?  That would lend towards contributing to the 529 to at least max that annually.  If there is a trusted family member that can open the 529 in their name with your kid as the beneficiary, that's best.
     As a reminder, at least the way the laws are written now, when the kid uses that money it counts as THEIR income for the FAFSA, which is expected to be used at a much higher rate than yours. All moot if they don't touch the money until junior and senior year (FAFSA is based on 2 years prior taxes, meaning FAFSA for 2020-2021 school year is based on 2018 tax return)

Interesting, I never realized this, and can admit my mistake.  But like you mention, it would work if used junior/senior year.  You could use the parent 529 freshman/sophomore year.


source:
https://www.fastweb.com/financial-aid/articles/how-do-grandparent-owned-529-college-savings-plans-affect-financial-aid-eligibility
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 08:37:02 AM by SuperSecretName »