4 year old wants everything

[Merrie]

My daughter just turned 4 and has hit this phase where she wants everything she sees, ranging from candy/cookies at the supermarket to a Disney Princesses Candyland game (she already has a regular Candyland game) because her friend has one. I usually say some variant of "That's not what I want to spend my money on" or "We already have a perfectly good X" or "I could make something just like that at home and it would taste better and be cheaper", but I don't feel like I'm getting through to her. I feel like on the one hand I have to look at this from her perspective; my anti-consumerist bent doesn't mean anything to her, she is just curious about the stuff she sees and wants to try it. On the other hand, I am not financing a spending bender and I don't want her to learn that either whining gets her her way, or that impulse buying is good, or that more stuff is better. What would you do or have you done? She doesn't get an allowance yet, time to start or is she too young? I would also like to add that she is very bright and good with math. She is our oldest child so there are not any older sibs drawing allowance or influencing this.

[whdwight]

I think if she's old enough to ask for stuff at the check-out stand, she's old enough to manage a budget. I'd give her a *very* modest "wants budget" (aka allowance) to manage. Make the amount small enough that saving for a medium priced item (like the game) takes a pretty long time (from a kid's perspective). Then, she's no longer asking you to buy her something, she's asking herself if she can afford it or deciding whether she really wants to buy X (cookie) because she knows she's saving for Y (Candyland game). In my experience (Dad to 5), this approach works every time and is a total attitude game-changer. It teaches delayed gratification, simple goal setting, trade-off assessment, and rudimentary budgeting. Bonus: eliminates whining at the check-out stand. :-)

[Merrie]

What would you call a modest wants budget? I was thinking a dollar a week would be reasonable. (I would say 50 cents but even a candy bar costs 75 these days.)

[bogart]

The rule of thumb I've seen is half their age, in dollars, per week -- so, $2 if you want to go by that.  I think it would be fine to set rules (e.g. "you can only buy one candy bar per week" or whatever) if you want to limit how she spends the money, though mostly I'd leave it to her, honestly (I find my kid gets access to so much candy/junk that this is a bit of a sore point but obviously, YMMV).  There's only so much craziness one can get into with $2/week, even at 4.

(We used that rule, the half their age thing, with our son and have found it's too much money -- but that's because he basically saves almost constantly and wants very little (which, don't get me wrong, he has plenty -- but he doesn't want more than he already has).  But based on what you say about your DD I'd guess it may be a more useful rule in your case than it's proved for us)

[Erica/NWEdible]

What would you do or have you done? She doesn't get an allowance yet, time to start or is she too young? I would also like to add that she is very bright and good with math. She is our oldest child so there are not any older sibs drawing allowance or influencing this.

I follow the straight Love and Logic playbook on this one, and it was a godsend with both my kids.

Kid: "Mommmmm. Can I have that? How about that? And that? What about that?"
Mom: "Sure, sweetie! Did you bring your money?"
Kid: **Pause** "I don't have any money"
Mom: "Oh, that's too bad. (genuine sympathy here, no mockery) Well when we get home, I can give you a few options to earn some. Would you like that?"

Generally: this is all about empowering YOUR kid to be responsible for their wants. Your kids wants are, frankly, not really your problem, not even at 4 years old. Hell, ESPECIALLY not at 4 years old.

So ideally we can turn this unceasing wanting back over to our kids with respect and empowering care so they start to put the pieces together for themselves:
work -->
money -->
spending -->
occasional spending regret (cause you'll let them blow all their money on something stupid because what a blessing for parent to allow a child to learn about frivolous spending at 6, so they aren't trying to learn those lessons at 46 --> 
more thoughtful spending choices -->
the discipline of saving for larger items -->
mustachianism on their own terms

...without us ever having to say much more than, "Sure! Did you bring your money?"

Sometimes, especially in the beginning you have to do the follow-up dance, where you say stuff like, "That's not how I'm spending MY money, sweetie, but you can spend your money on that whenever you like." But you don't negotiate, you just keep returning the issue back to your child kindly. Typically a bunch of great math with counting coins goes along with this stuff.

Hope this helps!

[Goldielocks]

I like the comments about giving a minor allowance.  Keep it very small or everything may get spent on candy.

At the checkout, just be certain to ALWAYS say no.  Being 100% consistent, and able to ask your child " have you ever seen me say yes?". ..." Then why are you trying so hard."   goes a long way.

I could tell when grandma had bought them something at the checkout/ gum machine it was like a faucet of begging had suddenly been turned on.

[marty998]

I follow the straight Love and Logic playbook on this one, and it was a godsend with both my kids.

Kid: "Mommmmm. Can I have that? How about that? And that? What about that?"
Mom: "Sure, sweetie! Did you bring your money?"
Kid: **Pause** "I don't have any money"
Mom: "Oh, that's too bad. (genuine sympathy here, no mockery) Well when we get home, I can give you a few options to earn some. Would you like that?"

At the checkout, just be certain to ALWAYS say no.  Being 100% consistent, and able to ask your child " have you ever seen me say yes?". ..." Then why are you trying so hard."   goes a long way.

Agree with both. You are the parent, you have to just say no, and you have to withstand the onslaught.

This is not a negotiation. It's one battle in a 18 year war :)

Imagine the demands when she is 14 if you give in now.

[Merrie]

Thanks everyone. I think it is time to start her on an allowance. I would also like to build in some form of charitable donation and some incentive to save, so I'm thinking $2 a week allows for 25 cents a week to be set aside for charity leaving a very reasonable $1.75 to spend, and then each month she earns some form of interest on whatever is in her piggy bank.... I have to work out the details with my husband. 

[Bob W]

One strategy I used with my girls when they were younger at the grocery store was to tell them before hand they could pick out one thing.   They would quickly pick one and then want another.   "That's fine but you only get one.  Want to put the other one up?"    Often they would pick out something I was going to buy them anyway.

Here are my ironclad hard rules with smallish children. They were Dad's rules, now they are Grandpa's rules.   My kids and grandkids can all repeat them and I require them to do so before entering any store or fun zone.

1.  No fussing,  whining or complaining.
2.  Dad is the boss.
3.  When it is time to leave it is time to leave.

These rules stated over and over and prior to have gone a long way.   I just say "what was the rule?"

[whdwight]

What would you call a modest wants budget? I was thinking a dollar a week would be reasonable. (I would say 50 cents but even a candy bar costs 75 these days.)

One way to come up with the amount is to work backwards from how long you'd like her to save for that Candy Land Princess Edition - apparently $19.96 right now at Walmart. I like the idea of working through that math with your kids. It puts some logic behind the amount. For example, at $2/week that'd be about 2 and a half months. The neat thing is, 80% of the time when they reach the goal, they decide they don't really want the item. Win-win. Some arguments for going a bit leaner than the amount you calculate from the exercise:

• Might want to factor in possibility of birthday/holiday windfall money
• Might want to offer odd-job opportunities to enable earning the money faster through diligent work (or bike-riding/walking compensation like MMM offers in his post "What I’m Teaching my Son about Money")
• Might want to offer an awesome weekly or monthly compound interest rate for saving (like MMM does in the same post)

I'm a huge fan of automatically splitting the income (however it's earned/unearned) between spending/saving/giving buckets in hopes that the habit will carryover to adulthood paychecks. (BTW: When they become teens, I also make our kids build up an Emergency Fund bucket of $500 - good habit to learn early and they have plenty of "emergencies" to exercise that bucket.)

[N]

I have an 11yo and a 7 yo.

My kids dont really have an allowance at this time. I do have an amount in my budget set for activities and for toys/games/apps/ etc (usually 25$ a month for each of those categories). what we spend comes out of those categories.

IMO, there are different kinds of "I wants".

There are the impulse ones-like walking thru Target and any thing they see that is interesting...or watching a commercial etc. I deal with those by first, acknowledging and repeating. "ooh, thats cool!" or "yeah! look at that!" or even "oh, you like that". Often, I offer to take a picture of the item for them. Or of them holding the item. Sometimes they like this idea. This was more satisfying to them when they were younger. I will also offer to add it to their Wishlist. I used to just write it down on a pad of paper. Then we had a whiteboard. Now, I have made them wishlists on amazon. my daughter can add stuff to her own now, but I still add stuff for my son all the time. His wishlist is several pages long.

Most of the time I dont have to actually say no-they usually understand what my response to the "I want" is going to be. I have been doing this a long time :) I often have similar feelings in the store. I dont want to shame them about what they want, or give a lecture, or be depressing about how we dont have money for it. I wouldnt want anyone to do that to me. And, my kids know that even if they do get something, Im going to research the best price anyway before deciding. we rarely do the impulse toys buys.

for food items, Im flexible. It depends on how much I have in the budget. I do get treats sometimes. Last year, mcdonalds had ice cream cones for 50c all summer. We stopped there a lot just for ice creams. It was fun, and pretty cheap. Guys at the parks sell ice cream novelties for 3$ each. this was my compromise. I also make a lot of treats. I did homemade milano cookies for  a fun thing once. etc.

Then there are things that make it past the impulse test and stand the test of time. that is, they are still asking about it several more times.
If they have their own money, they can use it how they want.
If they are out of money, I will see if there is a way to borrow, buy used, etc before I consider buying it new, but then find the best price.
I often say "Im not going to buy it right now, lets research it" but then I follow thru on that, otherwise it wont keep "working" as in, the kids will understand its a put off.

I will say that there was about 18 mos where I would not even DRIVE BY a target, because my son would just desperate to go in there and buy CARS and Toy Story stuff. nothing would distract him or console him. He was 3 ish when it started. Even driving by would make him cry and beg to go in. So I literally took another route to avoid it. Dont make things worse for yourself! :) If shopping without buying is really hard for your kid, avoid it for time being. Now mine is ok to go to target, although we almost always just go and look at the toy aisles, but they know its just for looking.

I also "prep" them when entering a store. I say what we are looking for, planning to buy, ask them to help in various ways, get them involved. They know going in we arent going off list. Sometimes I say, you can each choose something that is 5$ or less.

Sometimes if the situation is getting tense, I have a technique I call the Magic Tree. Kids says, "I want x". I say:" what if you had a magic tree that could grow anything you want? Would your tree grow X? Mine would grow.... chocolate!"  I try to diffuse and change the conversation. "what would Daddy's tree grow? maybe....bowls of chicken soup! thats his favorite!" make it silly. Or I just start being goofy and listing all the things I "want"...oh, you want the disney princess game? I want...summer weather! I want....a clean bathroom! I want...a big bowl of ice cream. What else do you want?" The key is to keep it light and silly. I cannot tell you how many power struggles and tantrums I have squeezed out of with this technique (inspired by Playful Parenting by Lawrence J Cohen)

[gt7152b]

We give our kids an option: 1) buy it with your own money or 2) put it on your Christmas/birthday list. That works with most things. Some items we do our best to influence them away from it. If they are really insistent on buying something ridiculous with their own money they at least need to wait and think about it for awhile. That filters out all the impulse shopping and sets them up for a good habit later in life. If they want something ridiculous as a holiday gift we try to offer more reasonable alternatives.

[AZDude]

My daughter just turned 4 and has hit this phase where she wants everything she sees, ranging from candy/cookies at the supermarket to a Disney Princesses Candyland game (she already has a regular Candyland game) because her friend has one. I usually say some variant of "That's not what I want to spend my money on" or "We already have a perfectly good X" or "I could make something just like that at home and it would taste better and be cheaper", but I don't feel like I'm getting through to her. I feel like on the one hand I have to look at this from her perspective; my anti-consumerist bent doesn't mean anything to her, she is just curious about the stuff she sees and wants to try it. On the other hand, I am not financing a spending bender and I don't want her to learn that either whining gets her her way, or that impulse buying is good, or that more stuff is better. What would you do or have you done? She doesn't get an allowance yet, time to start or is she too young? I would also like to add that she is very bright and good with math. She is our oldest child so there are not any older sibs drawing allowance or influencing this.

My 3.5 year old does the same thing. We just tell her no. Problem is grandparents will often just buy it anyway if she is with them. Frustrating because I don't want all this stuff in my house and I don't want my daughter thinking stuff is free.

[Scubanewbie]

We give our kids an option: 1) buy it with your own money or 2) put it on your Christmas/birthday list. That works with most things. Some items we do our best to influence them away from it. If they are really insistent on buying something ridiculous with their own money they at least need to wait and think about it for awhile. That filters out all the impulse shopping and sets them up for a good habit later in life. If they want something ridiculous as a holiday gift we try to offer more reasonable alternatives.

This is our approach, we just *don't* buy random things in the store, full stop.  I get that others do but I just figured this way we would never get into the habit and he would never expect it.  We do suggest Christmas and with ODS his birthday and Christmas are almost opposite each other so there's always something to look forward to.  If he has forgotten about it in 2 months, he didn't really want it that bad to begin with did he? :) 

I keep putting off an allowance but keep reading other's suggestions for when we do start them so thanks for that all previous posters!  He's 6 now and just lost his first tooth and got a quarter...but he doesn't connect that he can buy anything with it, he just puts it in his piggy bank.  Not bragging because he's not "saving" it for something, he just doesn't have a concept of the fact that he wants X and that the quarter could buy it.  Not that a quarter buys anything now a days anyway.

[Zamboni]

One strategy I used with my girls when they were younger at the grocery store was to tell them before hand they could pick out one thing.   They would quickly pick one and then want another.   "That's fine but you only get one.  Want to put the other one up?"    Often they would pick out something I was going to buy them anyway.

I'll second Bob's suggestion here. The "you can pick one thing" at the grocery store rule works great. Just be sure to stick to only ONE thing. If someone changes there mind about what they want, the other thing must go back. My Mom said you had to go to pick your one thing, which ensured that she had company and helper(s) when we got to be disillusioned teens.

Also, my rule is "no means no." Sometimes I explain rationale as you are doing, but other times I just say "no." Or "no, not today" which means maybe on some future day, but definitely not today and don't ask me again today. And then the responses to the (now extremely rare) follow up pestering are "no means no" or "what does no mean?" or "you know what no means."

Try just saying no and explaining that no means no and you aren't going to discuss it any further.  It works really well. It's fine to explain your rationale sometimes, but you don't have to rationalize all of your spending choices to a four year old who wants some new candy or piece of crap every single day.

You don't need to give a reason for saying "no." Research shows that women especially seem to feel like that have to explain themselves or make excuses every time they say no to any request. You are the boss. No means no.

[Merrie]

I can't recall ever buying anything in the grocery store due to pestering. Like, ever. I honestly don't think she's even trying to bug me into buying it. I think she really just sees things and wants them on that lizard brain level, and whatever comes into her head comes out of her mouth. It's like having a tiny little consumer with me. I'm less concerned with how to manage the constant nagging--I have no problem saying no to nagging--but longer-term I'd like to help her learn to manage her wants appropriately and relate to her desires in a constructive way. Telling her no all the time does not help her down this road, though maybe it will eventually help banish the nagging/whining. I'm going to continue to give her reasons in hopes she will absorb them over time, but I'm going to eventually need a strategy for teaching her money management too. Not sure yet if this is the time.

[GardenFun]

+1 for one item in the grocery store.  Today's item was a mango.  :-)

DS is 8.  He knows how much money he has in the bank.  We were walking past the furniture section of a box store, and DS was amazed how expensive everything was and how he could barely afford a couch (his words). 

While a 4 year old probably won't grasp it immediately, it is amazing how quickly - and under what circumstances - kids have their "a-ha!" moment about items costing money. 

[Hot_AZ]

GardenFun
I'm still waiting for my 41 year old husband to have that moment, LOL.  Glad your kids had it early!

[forummm]

What does "one thing" mean? Is there a price limit or a size limit or other rules?

[GardenFun]

What does "one thing" mean? Is there a price limit or a size limit or other rules?

Typically it is a food item that can be eaten with little to no preparation.  Sometimes it can cost more money (pistachios), sometimes it is cheap (mango).  Usually it is a fruit, cereal or cracker item.  However, DS has discovered the wonderful flavor of steak so we're going to have to be cautious in the meat section. 

[GardenFun]

GardenFun
I'm still waiting for my 41 year old husband to have that moment, LOL.  Glad your kids had it early!

Yeah, my dad was impressed....then wanted to know when I could teach my mom the same lesson. 

[AllChoptUp]

One strategy I used with my girls when they were younger at the grocery store was to tell them before hand they could pick out one thing.   They would quickly pick one and then want another.   "That's fine but you only get one.  Want to put the other one up?"    Often they would pick out something I was going to buy them anyway.

Here are my ironclad hard rules with smallish children. They were Dad's rules, now they are Grandpa's rules.   My kids and grandkids can all repeat them and I require them to do so before entering any store or fun zone.

1.  No fussing,  whining or complaining.
2.  Dad is the boss.
3.  When it is time to leave it is time to leave.

These rules stated over and over and prior to have gone a long way.   I just say "what was the rule?"

Very nice! Succinct and covers the main problems.  Will use today when we go to the pool - thanks.

[TrMama]

Lots of good advice already. I use the Love and Logic system posted above (although I didn't know it was a system, I'm just too disorganized to have cash on hand each week).

I noticed a huge drop off in the "wants" when we switched from regular cable TV to commercial free Netflix. It was like turning off a switch. Suddenly they just didn't know there were plastic gizmos and sugary packaged treats out there just waiting for mom to bring home to them. So, if you haven't already cut the cord, do it now.

We also do the "you can pick out one thing from the grocery store" thing. However, I restrict it to the produce and interesting meat sections.

[Workingmomsaves]

We tell our 4 year old to ask Santa for whatever he wants.  This works every time, for now.  I usually avoid taking my kids to the grocery store so I don't have to hear the "I wants".  If they do go with me they get to pick one item.  If they ask for more they can put the first item back.  I also don't go down the snack aisle avoids the temptation for all of us😀

[nobody123]

I keep putting off an allowance but keep reading other's suggestions for when we do start them so thanks for that all previous posters!  He's 6 now and just lost his first tooth and got a quarter...but he doesn't connect that he can buy anything with it, he just puts it in his piggy bank.  Not bragging because he's not "saving" it for something, he just doesn't have a concept of the fact that he wants X and that the quarter could buy it.  Not that a quarter buys anything now a days anyway.

My wife and I had a talk about an allowance with our just-turned 7 year old.  Even though he has learned how to count money in school, he has no real concept of what it's used for, other than putting it in his piggy bank.  We empty the piggy out on his birthday and take it to the "big bank" and put it in his savings account, so he doesn't really grasp the concept of what it's for.  My wife and I use credit cards for everything to get the rewards, and even school lunches are on a debit system so he never really gets exposed to cash being used as a medium of exchange, or the concept that there is a finite amount our family has to spend.

We've decided that he will get $7 on each of my paydays (15th and last) to spend or save as he pleases.  We told him that he will have to use that money for popcorn days at school (50 cents a box like once a month), to buy a birthday card for any birthday parties for classmates that he wants to attend (we will still buy the present), etc., so he will have some items that he will have to budget for.  We also told him that he can't use it to buy age-inappropriate things (ex: a rated-R DVD, fireworks, etc.).  I was sort of proud that he said that he wanted to save it up so he could buy a big Lego set (he loves Legos and always wants the $75+ ones for birthdays / Christmas). 

[Andrea_R]

@Workingmomsaves Hahhhaha! Santa is a great idea!

[ubermom4]

I think this is a normal phase in our culture. Comments were really good and helpful. I am a mom of 4 teenagers and wanted to share a couple of insights with the longer view. Whatever plan you develop around saying 'no' in the store ('no' worked really well for me) you have to stick with it 100%. I liked many of the other suggestions about making choices. However, the word 'no' has to have a strong and clear meaning for the child. If you can't say no to a young person and mean it, I think you are in for a world of trouble when the child becomes a teenager and they want to do all sorts of troubling stuff. Also, this may sound tough but I was really happy to put my children in timeouts for 'whining'. If a child behaved inappropriately in a store/restaurant/ wherever, they were warned once and then removed from the situation. With 4 kids things can get out of hand really quickly and easily. You don't have to do this very often for the children to understand.  You are asking great questions. I hope this helps.

[wombat]

Pocket money works best for us. The kids need to budget. Sometimes they'll blow it on shit - I see that as a fairly cheap lesson for them to learn and will often remind them: "Remember the time you bought the x toy and used it once? Will this be the same?".

I like the wish list idea. We live in Hong Kong and once or twice a year I'll order stuff we can't get in HK (or can't get for cheap) from Amazon - combining shipping really brings the cost down so I might suggest we put items on that list (they are usually cheaper on Amazon that stores in HK anyway) and when ordering time comes sit and have a conversation about what is still wanted - within pocket money limits of course!

We are pretty open and honest about money in our family - the kids know we earn a lot - but also understand that one reason we are set to retire next year is that we don't spend it all on things not aligned with our values.

[Merrie]

A conversation yesterday in the checkout line at JoAnn's:

Her: That candy looks good.
Me: Yeah, it sure does.
Her: Can we get some?
Me: What am I going to say?
Her: (slight pause) No.
Me: And why?
Her: Because we can make something better at home.

Bingo.

ubermom4, we are definitely tackling whining a lot lately. The one I've taken a hard line on lately is whining about not liking dinner. She can tell me what she thinks, but then she needs to quit whining and eat the, oh, tablespoon or so of whatever objectionable food I gave her. After I followed through on the threat of no dessert if whining continued, I think she has realized that I mean business. Having the entirety of dinner be a complaint-fest is no fun.

[LiveLean]

With the exception of Costco, I rarely go into a store.

Costco, of course, doesn't have candy in the checkout aisles and a lot of the other crap you find in supermarkets, Wal-Marts, etc.

Costco does, however, offer free samples of various foods from Wednesday through Sunday. Usually one of the samples is of cake/cookies, etc. This has satisfied our guys, now 10 and 12, for years.

I also make them part of the Costco process. Once we're in the store, I send them off in search of milk or bananas -- less bulky items they can grab and bring back to the cart. My mom did this with me back in the day in supermarkets (pre-Costco). Not only did she keep me from bugging her from stuff, she got the shopping done faster. Smart woman.

[RelaxedGal]

Some good advice above.  I am amused by my 4 year old's viewpoint and wanted to share:

At Christmas, just before she turned 4, she got some money from relatives.  I usually take her to a store so she can buy whatever she'd like but this year she decided she wanted to save it.  Fast forward a few months and we were in a toy store buying a gift for her friend's birthday.  She found a game she wanted for herself, but I wouldn't buy it for her because it's not Christmas or her Birthday.  She has mentioned the game a few times since so we started giving her chores that she could earn money by doing (collect the trash: 50 cents, wipe down the dining room table, 50 cents).  The next time she mentioned the game my husband mentioned her Christmas money, and all the money she'd earned from chores.

"But I'm SAVING my money!  I want you to buy the game for me!"

As far as I can tell my Mini-mustache is just saving for the sake of saving - sounds like my brother and me at that age.  No, I'm not going to buy her the game just because she wants it; that's a slippery slope.

[nobody123]

ubermom4, we are definitely tackling whining a lot lately. The one I've taken a hard line on lately is whining about not liking dinner. She can tell me what she thinks, but then she needs to quit whining and eat the, oh, tablespoon or so of whatever objectionable food I gave her. After I followed through on the threat of no dessert if whining continued, I think she has realized that I mean business. Having the entirety of dinner be a complaint-fest is no fun.

We tell our kids that starving is an option.  As long as they try a bite of everything, they are welcome not to eat the rest of it, but they have to sit there until everyone else is done eating.  They know that my wife and I will not make them something else, and they won't be having dessert if we were planning on serving it.  99% of the time they will start eating it within 5 minutes.

Prior to taking that stance, we'd get a lot of "We're having X!?!?!? That's yucky!!!" even though they happily ate it the week prior.

[Sibley]

ubermom4, we are definitely tackling whining a lot lately. The one I've taken a hard line on lately is whining about not liking dinner. She can tell me what she thinks, but then she needs to quit whining and eat the, oh, tablespoon or so of whatever objectionable food I gave her. After I followed through on the threat of no dessert if whining continued, I think she has realized that I mean business. Having the entirety of dinner be a complaint-fest is no fun.

We tell our kids that starving is an option.  As long as they try a bite of everything, they are welcome not to eat the rest of it, but they have to sit there until everyone else is done eating.  They know that my wife and I will not make them something else, and they won't be having dessert if we were planning on serving it.  99% of the time they will start eating it within 5 minutes.

Prior to taking that stance, we'd get a lot of "We're having X!?!?!? That's yucky!!!" even though they happily ate it the week prior.

I'm not a parent (and likely never will be) but I know I was an impossible child. My parent's response to complaints about dinner was similar. We ate what we were served, or we went hungry. We also had to try everything. I think they changed the process when I was very young, because I do remember an hours long standoff over dinner. I think after that they decided we could go hungry!

When we were much older (high school), if it was something that we had a long standing dislike of we could make a sandwich. I think that got instituted when mom realized that I didn't like sausage pie because it make me feel sick (I have to be careful with sausage in general). That recipe also eventually fell out of the rotation.

[nobody123]

ubermom4, we are definitely tackling whining a lot lately. The one I've taken a hard line on lately is whining about not liking dinner. She can tell me what she thinks, but then she needs to quit whining and eat the, oh, tablespoon or so of whatever objectionable food I gave her. After I followed through on the threat of no dessert if whining continued, I think she has realized that I mean business. Having the entirety of dinner be a complaint-fest is no fun.

We tell our kids that starving is an option.  As long as they try a bite of everything, they are welcome not to eat the rest of it, but they have to sit there until everyone else is done eating.  They know that my wife and I will not make them something else, and they won't be having dessert if we were planning on serving it.  99% of the time they will start eating it within 5 minutes.

Prior to taking that stance, we'd get a lot of "We're having X!?!?!? That's yucky!!!" even though they happily ate it the week prior.

I'm not a parent (and likely never will be) but I know I was an impossible child. My parent's response to complaints about dinner was similar. We ate what we were served, or we went hungry. We also had to try everything. I think they changed the process when I was very young, because I do remember an hours long standoff over dinner. I think after that they decided we could go hungry!

When we were much older (high school), if it was something that we had a long standing dislike of we could make a sandwich. I think that got instituted when mom realized that I didn't like sausage pie because it make me feel sick (I have to be careful with sausage in general). That recipe also eventually fell out of the rotation.

Yep, I unilaterally instituted the policy about 75 minutes into a meal I finished eating in 10 minutes after running into the problem almost daily for a few weeks.  My wife was horrified that I told the kids they could starve (her military dad made them clean their plates when they were growing up), but she quickly came over to my side once she saw that it worked. 

If my mom knew she was making something my sister or I didn't like, she would generally make sure there were some leftovers from the night before to offer as an alternative, or make sure there was extra salad, etc.  For the most part, we both loved almost all of what my mom cooked, so it was only maybe once every couple of months.  We'll probably do something similar when the kids get older, or allow them to make a sandwich, once we know that it's a real dislike and not a kid just being stubborn.  Right now, my 3 year old would opt for a PB&J every meal if we would let him. 

[Kitsune]

Gawd, whining is unbearable. My sister whined when she was really young: I remember my mom coaching her out of it. "I waaaaaaaaaa-" "No. Say 'want'." "Waaaaa...." "Want." By the time she had gotten the statement out without whining, she was generally distracted from what she was whining about anyway.

I do find that having some personal money helps with teaching budgeting (and that blowing 2$ and regretting it at 6 is the same lesson as blowing 200$ at 16, and probably better in the long run...)

I think, as a parent, it's ok to set baseline rules for what money can be spent on, though. Rules from my childhood that we've adopted include, for example, that you CAN spend your money on a candy bar, but candy bars are a snack, and are eaten at snack time. So even if you buy it now, you're going to be waiting till mid-afternoon to eat it (this also tends to reduce the frequency of candy-related splurging...)

And I'll second the never, ever give in to whining. It's SO TOUGH sometimes because you're tired and all you want is peace and quiet and giving in will buy you that, but seriously, you're shooting yourself in the foot. My kid can argue, can try to convince me, can use logic, but whining for it immediately goes into the 'ain't ever gonna work' category. And there are things that they can try to argue or logic (and if they have a good argument I'll give in), but there are also things that are 'non-negotiable', and that's where it ends, period.

[Sibley]

ubermom4, we are definitely tackling whining a lot lately. The one I've taken a hard line on lately is whining about not liking dinner. She can tell me what she thinks, but then she needs to quit whining and eat the, oh, tablespoon or so of whatever objectionable food I gave her. After I followed through on the threat of no dessert if whining continued, I think she has realized that I mean business. Having the entirety of dinner be a complaint-fest is no fun.

We tell our kids that starving is an option.  As long as they try a bite of everything, they are welcome not to eat the rest of it, but they have to sit there until everyone else is done eating.  They know that my wife and I will not make them something else, and they won't be having dessert if we were planning on serving it.  99% of the time they will start eating it within 5 minutes.

Prior to taking that stance, we'd get a lot of "We're having X!?!?!? That's yucky!!!" even though they happily ate it the week prior.

I'm not a parent (and likely never will be) but I know I was an impossible child. My parent's response to complaints about dinner was similar. We ate what we were served, or we went hungry. We also had to try everything. I think they changed the process when I was very young, because I do remember an hours long standoff over dinner. I think after that they decided we could go hungry!

When we were much older (high school), if it was something that we had a long standing dislike of we could make a sandwich. I think that got instituted when mom realized that I didn't like sausage pie because it make me feel sick (I have to be careful with sausage in general). That recipe also eventually fell out of the rotation.

Yep, I unilaterally instituted the policy about 75 minutes into a meal I finished eating in 10 minutes after running into the problem almost daily for a few weeks.  My wife was horrified that I told the kids they could starve (her military dad made them clean their plates when they were growing up), but she quickly came over to my side once she saw that it worked. 

If my mom knew she was making something my sister or I didn't like, she would generally make sure there were some leftovers from the night before to offer as an alternative, or make sure there was extra salad, etc.  For the most part, we both loved almost all of what my mom cooked, so it was only maybe once every couple of months.  We'll probably do something similar when the kids get older, or allow them to make a sandwich, once we know that it's a real dislike and not a kid just being stubborn.  Right now, my 3 year old would opt for a PB&J every meal if we would let him.

My mom never did the clean your plate thing. In her mind, she didn't know how hungry we were, so why would you force someone to continue eating when they were full? It wasn't our fault if someone over-served us. She got a lot of crap for that from various family but never backed down. My sister and I have a generally healthy relationship with food now and I credit her with a lot of that.

[Merrie]

I don't make my daughter clean her plate. But if she doesn't, she doesn't get a "bedtime snack" apart from more of whatever was for dinner. I may relax this a little. Yesterday she tried the new thing I made and declared she didn't like it--but hey, at least she tried it. I let her fill up on raw carrots. When she wanted a bedtime snack, I told her she could have another carrot. She was not thrilled with this but accepted it. This may work less well when she knows there is dessert in the house (there wasn't any yesterday).

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

We just almost never offer our kids dessert. If we do, we're a little inconsistent--we might require just two bites*, or sometimes we require eating all of their veggies, say. Not necessarily a whole plate.

*The USDA has this "Two Bite Club" thing for preschoolers that they learned at school.

[nobody123]

To be clear, we've never made our kids clean their plates.  We learned early on with the first one that they'll eat if they're hungry and won't if they aren't, so we generally put small portions of everything on their plate and let them ask for more of what they like just so we don't waste food.  I was just pointing out that my wife had a hard time thinking her little babies were going to go hungry coming from a background of YOU WILL EAT EVERYTHING ON YOUR PLATE YOUR MOTHER WORKED HARD TO COOK THE FAMILY THIS MEAL THERE ARE STARVING PEOPLE IN CHINA I DON'T CARE IF YOU HAVE TO SIT THERE ALL NIGHT YOU ARE FINISHING YOUR DINNER!

[Merrie]

"We learned early on with the first one that they'll eat if they're hungry and won't if they aren't, so we generally put small portions of everything on their plate and let them ask for more of what they like just so we don't waste food."

I totally agree. I got into the habit early on with my daughter of giving her maybe a tablespoon of everything so she doesn't waste much. If I think she might not like something, I give her much less than I think she'll eat. My feeling, though, is if she doesn't want to eat her dinner because she's genuinely not hungry, that's one thing, but if she's "not hungry" for dinner but "hungry" for cookies, that's a different matter, and she needs to eat something reasonable before getting the cookies.

[Sibley]

"We learned early on with the first one that they'll eat if they're hungry and won't if they aren't, so we generally put small portions of everything on their plate and let them ask for more of what they like just so we don't waste food."

I totally agree. I got into the habit early on with my daughter of giving her maybe a tablespoon of everything so she doesn't waste much. If I think she might not like something, I give her much less than I think she'll eat. My feeling, though, is if she doesn't want to eat her dinner because she's genuinely not hungry, that's one thing, but if she's "not hungry" for dinner but "hungry" for cookies, that's a different matter, and she needs to eat something reasonable before getting the cookies.

Going hungry a night or two will go a long way towards teaching kids to eat their dinner. Missing a meal or 2 won't hurt a healthy child. Yeah, it sounds cruel, but it's really not. Even toddlers can learn about consequences.

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

It's actually not unusual for Little Brother to not touch his dinner at all. They always have a hearty breakfast, generous lunch and (rather small) afternoon snack, so I tend to figure he just filled up on the more-appealing stuff (grilled cheese sandwiches, yogurt and whatnot). He never seems bothered by missing dinner and it doesn't even make him unhappy. He doesn't complain, he just says he's "all done" and goes off to play. If we happen to have something unusually delicious in the house, like pie, he will generally muster the energy to try a few bites of dinner.

[Merrie]

It's actually not unusual for Little Brother to not touch his dinner at all. They always have a hearty breakfast, generous lunch and (rather small) afternoon snack, so I tend to figure he just filled up on the more-appealing stuff (grilled cheese sandwiches, yogurt and whatnot). He never seems bothered by missing dinner and it doesn't even make him unhappy. He doesn't complain, he just says he's "all done" and goes off to play. If we happen to have something unusually delicious in the house, like pie, he will generally muster the energy to try a few bites of dinner.

This sounds like mine too. Today getting a brownie was contingent on several things (finishing dinner, not throwing a giant fit about taking a bath, etc.)

But, I made chicken broccoli fettuccine Alfredo tonight, and managed to (sort of) get her to think beyond her immediate knee-jerk "I don't like that". I gave her a taste of the Alfredo sauce, which she had never had before but pronounced to be good. So I was like, this dish is that sauce, which you like, chicken, broccoli, and noodles, and there is nothing else in it, and you like all of those things, so you will probably like this. And she calmed down enough to try it at least. So, baby steps.

[BlueHouse]

When I was a child, watching Saturday morning cartoons inevitably got me and my siblings to beg for toys for Xmas.  My mother just gave us a paper and crayons and told us to make a list and then to make sure we got it in the order we wanted it because Santa was only going to bring one or two items.  We'd work on those lists during every commercial.  The prioritization part seemed to be key, because we would rewrite the lists so many times to get them in the right order.  Usually, we'd be able to self-censor the list because it became obvious to all of us, even at a very young age, that our desires changed as soon as we saw the next great thing. 
I always felt that was a hugely valuable experience. 

[AHNK]

I started DD7 on an allowance when she was 4. She received this piggy bank as a birthday gift http://www.moneysavvykids.com.au/index.asp

She has a couple of rules in place, this has helped her to practice her counting and stops the arguments if you she wants to buy anything.  Its amazing how much she doesn't need or really want if she has to use her own money.

For the investing section, she invests in our mortgage and I have a spreadsheet which shows when her investing is banked to the mortgage and the daily interest/amount she receives.  About 4 months ago I taught her about compound interest with the spreadsheet and her investment allocations have increased after this!!

I have also just added to the spreadsheet of tracking what DD has bought with her money as she seems to forget what she has bought, so I want to revisit with her down the track to determine whether the purchase was a good one or whether it wasn't as good as she thought it would be.

DD's pocket money isn't linked to chores as you do chores because you're part of a family.

[gaja]

My kids are better at earning money than at spending them. It is partly because I buy them a bit more than they really need. But it is also because they very early got a chore list that was matched with a payment schedule. I think the oldest was 4 or 5 when she earn her first money doing laundry. The youngest had a harder time grasping the concept of money; I told her she could get 1 krone (Norwegian currency) for each weed she dug out of the lawn. But she was in the worst pink princess periode, and heard krone as in crown. So when she came back later, sweaty and dirty, proudly displayed 43 weeds carefully dug out of the lawn, there was no other choice than going to the toy shop and get her a bunch of pink and shiny crowns. Well, at least she learned the concept of "if you work you get rewarded".

In one of Anne McCaffrey's books, she writes about a girl who never really had a "Why" phase. Every time she asked "why", her parents carefully answered the question, in detail, until she understood. I've tried doing a bit of the same. So if the kids ask why they have to eat dinner, they get a long lecture about proteins, different types of amino acids, vitamins, how the body works, etc. Now I only have to ask them "are you just asking, or do you really want me to explain it to you", whenever they start whining. Or, if they don't want to eat something, I ask them to explain why the body needs those nutrients. Usually they just grumble and eat their food after that.

[ahoy]

All great info above.  I have a 12 and a 9 year old.  They both get a small allowance and have for a few years.  It has been fantastic!  They know if they want something they have to pay for it.   Otherwise they don't expect anything until Christmas and their birthdays from us.  They do some chores (not a lot), and it's not connected to their allowance.  I look at their allowance as a 'teaching tool'.

[MrsPete]

I suspect this case of the "gimmees" was sparked by her growing old enough to really start noticing advertising ... but not being old enough to sift through truth and image.  You should start talking to her -- at her level -- about what the advertisers want you to think about their product /what they're promising, but don't expect it to take hold for a while. 

I don't think she's quite ready for a budget.  That requires understanding of time (i.e., this money has to last you 'til next week) and some abstract understanding of numbers.  We started working with our kids on money/budgeting when they started school, and it seemed "just right".  Today they're in college and have really internalized the lessons we wanted them to learn. 

Things that will work better with a young child:

- Before you go out to the grocery store, etc., tell the child ahead of time EXACTLY WHAT you are /aren't willing to buy.  Maybe you'll say that she can pick out a package of cookies and can choose the yogurt she likes best, but NO other treats.  Or tell her that you have to run errands to three stores, and you won't be buying treats at any of them -- but when you get home, you'll have ice cream.  Knowing where the indulgences will be "acceptable" will help her start to develop self-control. 
- Give her plenty of choices when you really don't care about the outcome:  Should we choose pepperoni pizza or ham and pineapple?  Do you want to buy the solid blue dress or the pink with stripes? 
- Don't take her with you to the store every time.  No, this won't help her learn, but it will excuse you from negative interactions that help no one. 
- Be careful to set a good example; if you yourself are an impulse shopper, she'll think this is the way to do things.  When you go out, shop from a list -- and let her help with the list -- so she can start to understand that buying things is a PLAN.