Author Topic: Belgian Moustachians  (Read 66660 times)

TheShinyHorse

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #200 on: July 27, 2018, 01:37:18 PM »
Pannenkoek: another idea I had regarding the health insurance: if you work an interim contract for at least one day each year, you will be covered for the next year I believe. So there's an easy way to avoid paying the 3k/year.
I researched it a bit more and I think I will receive a pro rata pension. so if I work 12 years, it will be 12/45 (yes, this will be peanuts). If you work for 30 years, your pension will be upped to at least the minimum pension.
Oh, I looked a bit deeper into it, and you're right. The number of total active days is counted and then divided by the equivalent on 45 years: https://www.onprvp.fgov.be/NL/profes/calculation/career/fraction/paginas/default.aspx

I was confused by all the little different rules they have regarding pensions (vervroegd pensioen, minimum pensioen) and starting mixing up some concepts. My previous posts about this were also wrong.

  • Minimumrecht per loopbaanjaar: starts when you work at least 1/3th for at least 15 year. If you work a little bit extra for 3 year, you can apply for that. Will probably add pennies to your monthly cheque.
  • Gewaarborgd minimum pensioen: at least 30 years working at least half-time. Confusing name because it's neither "guaranteed", nor a minimum (pro rata of this minimum still applied)
  • Vervroegd pensioen: Probably won't apply in the future any longer: https://www.socialsecurity.be/citizen/nl/pensioen/je-pensioen-als-werknemer/vervroegd-pensioen-werknemer
  • Rustpensioen, pensioenbonus, aanvullend pensioen, pensioensparen etc etc etc
Here you can find a good example for a typical employee: https://www.onprvp.fgov.be/NL/profes/calculation/example/paginas/default.aspx

I'm hoping they don't count accumulating index funds as "income" since there aren't any dividends. In that case I would pay 0.
They say: "De bijdrage die je als verblijvende moet betalen, is afhankelijk van je bruto belastbaar gezinsinkomen van 2018." But there isn't any 'bruto belastbaar inkomen' as accumulating (stock) funds aren't taxed :) (not sure if I understand all of this correctly)
No, nothing to worry about. I think dividends wouldn't count either, cause you don't pay "inkomstenbelasting" on them, rather "roerende voorheffing" (not counted with your income).
« Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 02:02:44 PM by TheShinyHorse »

financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #201 on: August 05, 2018, 08:54:46 AM »
Interesting thread guys. I'm a fellow mustachian/boglehead from Belgium aiming to be FI by age 35.

Read through the thread and learned a bunch of useful stuff. So if I understand it correctly there are 2 big disadvantages if I would retire at 35 and never work again:

  • No pension at 67. Sucks a bit. So even though I've worked for 12 years and paid my taxes I don't receive any pension? Doesn't seem fair. Wait, think I misunderstood. I'll still get 12/45 right?
  • No health insurance anymore. But I could get a 'statuut verblijvende in België' and get comprehensive health insurance by paying a quarterly fee: https://www.cm.be/media/Bijdrage-verblijvenden_tcm47-45304.pdf. Is this correct? Not sure how the 'jaarinkomen' is calculated if your only source of income is selling accumulating index funds but this would mean max 725€ per quarter currently.
35 is pretty ambitious for Belgium. Care to do a guest post on my blog explaining how you hope to get there?

Pannenkoek

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #202 on: August 07, 2018, 01:03:02 PM »
Interesting thread guys. I'm a fellow mustachian/boglehead from Belgium aiming to be FI by age 35.

Read through the thread and learned a bunch of useful stuff. So if I understand it correctly there are 2 big disadvantages if I would retire at 35 and never work again:

  • No pension at 67. Sucks a bit. So even though I've worked for 12 years and paid my taxes I don't receive any pension? Doesn't seem fair. Wait, think I misunderstood. I'll still get 12/45 right?
  • No health insurance anymore. But I could get a 'statuut verblijvende in België' and get comprehensive health insurance by paying a quarterly fee: https://www.cm.be/media/Bijdrage-verblijvenden_tcm47-45304.pdf. Is this correct? Not sure how the 'jaarinkomen' is calculated if your only source of income is selling accumulating index funds but this would mean max 725€ per quarter currently.
35 is pretty ambitious for Belgium. Care to do a guest post on my blog explaining how you hope to get there?

I read your blog! Pretty funny and interesting to read. I must say I recognize myself in you as I'm not particularly ambitious (some even say lazy) myself. Maybe even lazier as I have no ambition to start meddling with options and all that. Seems like too much work.

Where I differ from you is that I'm not really that voyeuristic :). But I will tell you my (embarrassing) secret: I'm 30 years old and still live with my parents. This means I can transfer about 90% of my (pretty average) salary every month and put it into an index tracker (IWDA). I also started pretty young. Started reading MrMoneymustache and jlcollinsnh when I was 24 and started investing at 25. According to my calculations I will have about 500K at 35 assuming decent market returns (5-6%). Of course if I would FIRE at 35, this would mean a pretty no frills lifestyle at 15-20K per year so not sure if I will pull the trigger then.

financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #203 on: August 09, 2018, 11:15:46 AM »
Well, living at the parents definitely helps the savings rate!
I am living (and aiming) for a 20K lifestyle and I find my life to have more than enough frills! Fun doesn't have to be expensive. Also, when you have all the time in the world you can get a lot of stuff a lot cheaper. Effort + time = money.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 04:13:16 AM by financialfreedomsloth »

Pannenkoek

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #204 on: August 11, 2018, 02:49:42 AM »
Well, living at the parents definitely helps the savings rate!
I am living (and aiming) for a 20K lifestyle and I find my life to have more than enough frills! Funs doesn't have to be expensive. also, when you have all the time in the world you can get a lot of stuff a lot cheaper. Effort + time = money.

If I have 500K I'll probably live on 15K the first years just to be sure in case of a poor sequence of returns in the beginning. If I see that even then my portfolio is still growing I'll loose the reins a bit.

But 15K would include:

- rent: lets say 750 per month or 9K per year
- health insurance: 3K per year? Forgot again that I probably don't have to pay because of no income. Damn you goldfish memory...
- utilities/food: 3,5K per year? (150 utilities and 150 food per month)
(- 0,15% wealth tax from the Belgian government: 750€ per year :p)

So this is 15,5K 12,5K just covering my basic needs. I can probably lower that rent if I find someone that wants to live with me. In that case, I'll have about 7K for discretionary spending. Not too shabby. Maybe I can even buy a car and get children. Am I missing something important in my expenses?
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 12:32:39 PM by Pannenkoek »

financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #205 on: August 20, 2018, 04:25:28 AM »
Well, living at the parents definitely helps the savings rate!
I am living (and aiming) for a 20K lifestyle and I find my life to have more than enough frills! Funs doesn't have to be expensive. also, when you have all the time in the world you can get a lot of stuff a lot cheaper. Effort + time = money.

If I have 500K I'll probably live on 15K the first years just to be sure in case of a poor sequence of returns in the beginning. If I see that even then my portfolio is still growing I'll loose the reins a bit.

But 15K would include:

- rent: lets say 750 per month or 9K per year
- health insurance: 3K per year? Forgot again that I probably don't have to pay because of no income. Damn you goldfish memory...
- utilities/food: 3,5K per year? (150 utilities and 150 food per month)
(- 0,15% wealth tax from the Belgian government: 750€ per year :p)

So this is 15,5K 12,5K just covering my basic needs. I can probably lower that rent if I find someone that wants to live with me. In that case, I'll have about 7K for discretionary spending. Not too shabby. Maybe I can even buy a car and get children. Am I missing something important in my expenses?
I think you got most of it. Another way to lower the rent would be to get creative in your living arrangements: http://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20180817_03669559

For a friend I did the numbers for a small build on a recreatie domein met permanent bewoning mogelijkheid. Terrain can be had for around 30.000 to 40.000 and building something on it can be done for 60.000 euro (or 5.000 euro if you go the bus route) Which would put you at a 100.000 euro to sort out you living arrangements for the rest of your life. Granted, domiciliation has to be somewhere else but parents seem a logical solutions there. And since you got it cheap, there are always people looking for cheap places to living for a couple of months when you want to rent it out and travel.

Big advantage is that you normally can get a mortgage for this which at current mortgage rate essentially lets you borrow money for it interest free (if you take into account the tax rebate). It also means you can earn 10.500 euro tax free each year (tax free 7.500 + 3.000 euro mortgage deduction)

financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #206 on: August 20, 2018, 04:28:04 AM »
Oh yeah. the 100K in property also doesn't count for the wealth tax calculation. With your living arrangement sorted out (in a way that is cheaper than renting) you can lower your stash to 400.000 and avoid the 750 euro wealth tax ;-)

Pannenkoek

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #207 on: August 26, 2018, 04:05:00 AM »
I think you got most of it. Another way to lower the rent would be to get creative in your living arrangements: http://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20180817_03669559

For a friend I did the numbers for a small build on a recreatie domein met permanent bewoning mogelijkheid. Terrain can be had for around 30.000 to 40.000 and building something on it can be done for 60.000 euro (or 5.000 euro if you go the bus route) Which would put you at a 100.000 euro to sort out you living arrangements for the rest of your life. Granted, domiciliation has to be somewhere else but parents seem a logical solutions there. And since you got it cheap, there are always people looking for cheap places to living for a couple of months when you want to rent it out and travel.

Big advantage is that you normally can get a mortgage for this which at current mortgage rate essentially lets you borrow money for it interest free (if you take into account the tax rebate). It also means you can earn 10.500 euro tax free each year (tax free 7.500 + 3.000 euro mortgage deduction)

Interesting, not sure I want to live in a bus though :). Another possibility is to move to Wallonia or the Ardennen. Should be a lot cheaper there compared to Flanders I think. Just have to polish up my French a bit... Limburg is also a bit cheaper than other parts of Flanders I think.

FinancialHacker

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #208 on: September 25, 2018, 12:55:27 PM »
Hi,

Brand new here! coming from Antwerp we have the age of 34 with 2 kids :D ready to start MMM style living :D

Greetz

Cube

ItsALongStory

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #209 on: September 30, 2018, 11:01:26 AM »
37yo living in the US currently but originally Belgian (zuid West-Vlaanderen) and thinking about retirement in or around Ieper (wife loves that place) or in Wallonia (stunning nature and cheap to live).

Kind of got a late start to the retirement planning life but am in an OK position with a lot of opportunity to save in the next 5-10 years. Worst case I want to retire at 55yo with aspirational timeline more like 45yo.

I need to learn a lot more about retirement planning for a move back to the homeland though.

schoenbauer

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #210 on: February 09, 2019, 03:48:37 AM »
Dear Belgian Moustachians,

I have recently moved to the region of Brussels (from Germany) and I'm now trying to set-up a Belgian brokerage account. I learnt that DeGiro is quite cheap (but not under Belgian legislation) and Binck is also okay (under Belgian legislation). Any recommendations from your side?

Also I  read on the Bogleheads wiki ("Investing in Belgium") that dividends are taxed 30%, but accumulating funds don't tax the re-invested dividends and capital gains are also not taxable (when the fund is held for more than 6 month). Is that still true? It seems incredible to me that capital gains are not taxed, when labour is taxed so heavily here (am I missing something?). Therefore an Irish, accumulating ETF seems to be the best choice for Belgian investors...?

Thankful for any leads :)

Pannenkoek

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #211 on: March 23, 2019, 03:43:16 AM »
Dear Belgian Moustachians,

I have recently moved to the region of Brussels (from Germany) and I'm now trying to set-up a Belgian brokerage account. I learnt that DeGiro is quite cheap (but not under Belgian legislation) and Binck is also okay (under Belgian legislation). Any recommendations from your side?

Yes, degiro is the cheapest. Some ETF's in their core selection can be bought/sold without transaction costs. You also have to declare the account to the Belgian government as it is a foreign account. I use Binck and Bolero myself which are also quite cheap.

Also I  read on the Bogleheads wiki ("Investing in Belgium") that dividends are taxed 30%, but accumulating funds don't tax the re-invested dividends and capital gains are also not taxable (when the fund is held for more than 6 month). Is that still true? It seems incredible to me that capital gains are not taxed, when labour is taxed so heavily here (am I missing something?). Therefore an Irish, accumulating ETF seems to be the best choice for Belgian investors...?

Thankful for any leads :)

It's true: capital gains & dividends aren't taxed for accumulating stock funds. Bond funds are taxed however.

tinderstick

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #212 on: March 27, 2019, 01:22:07 PM »
Beste Mustashians,

Ik ben een jonge dertiger uit het Gentse (nog een, inderdaad), die net MMM heeft ontdekt. Feest.
Ik ben volledig mee met de visie, zuinig leven, veel DIY, stoďcijnse visie op geluk, etc. Maar heb weinig kaas gegeten van beleggen. Ben me beginnen inlezen op fora zoals deze, maar ik moet zeggen dat het redelijk overweldigend is en ik niet goed zie waar ik kan beginnen.
Kan iemand me op weg zetten? Hoeveel moet ik weten van beleggen om de 4% te halen met passieve beleggingen, zonder verder heel hard de markt te volgen? Wat moet ik precies weten? "beleggen in indexfondsen" klinkt gemakkelijk, maar het blijft redelijk abstract als je nieuw bent in de wereld van beleggen.

Merci!

Pannenkoek

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #213 on: March 30, 2019, 06:09:42 AM »
Site van de bogleheads is wel een goede plek om te beginnen:

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started (niet alles is even relevant zoals 401K. Dat is iets typisch Amerikaans)
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investing_from_Belgium

In België kan je het beste ETF's kopen bij een online broker (zoals binck, bolero, degiro etc.). Voorbeelden van ETF's:

Aandelen:
-ishares core msci world (IWDA)
-ishares msci world small cap (IUSN)
-ishare core msci emerging markets imi (EMIM)

Obligaties
-ishares core global aggregate bond - eur hedged (AGGH)

tinderstick

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #214 on: March 31, 2019, 01:42:20 PM »
Ah, super!
Heel handig, merci!!

Viracocha

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #215 on: April 25, 2019, 03:16:20 AM »
story about a Belgium guy achieving FI in Dubai:
https://www.thenational.ae/business/money/dubai-resident-i-retired-at-37-after-achieving-financial-independence-in-two-years-1.665613

looks like he learned about the concept via the boglehead forum

Haha, John is my friend. He discovered FI at one of the first meetups I organized in 2015, had a massive aha moment, changed his life completely and "retired" 2 years later. I am the second guy in the article :-)

I have been organizing free meetups/talks to teach people about investing and FI. Here the last one I did: https://www.simplyfi.org/single-post/2018/06/19/Dubai-Meetup-26-How-to-Plan-for-Financial-Independence-and-Early-Retirement---by-Sebastien-Aguilar-including-recording-and-slides

I am on my way back to Belgium and would like to help grow the FI community here. Would you be interested in joining? I have started a FI Facebook group as I find it is a much easier way to build a community using FI FB groups. The group is closed so people from outside can't see anything of what is happening inside: www.facebook.com/groups/FIBelgium

I would love to meet you guys when I am back in Belgium!
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 03:57:03 AM by Viracocha »

TheShinyHorse

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #216 on: April 27, 2019, 04:14:21 AM »
Anyone worried about Deutsche Bank? Saw this article, which is very bleak about their future: https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/26/business/deutsche-bank-christian-sewing/index.html

I have some money in their DXET fund, not sure if I should re-invest it in another fund to be safe?
https://www.finanzen100.de/etf/db-x-trackers-dj-euro-stoxx-50-etf-1c_H1396034427_21324299/

I took a quick look, and it seems to be underperforming towards the market as well: http://www.morningstar.nl/nl/etf/snapshot/snapshot.aspx?id=0P0000HNXD
I bought this fund because I wanted to be in a European fund, but most of my money is into IWDA (world fund), which has performed a lot better... So it might be the time to make a switch?

Haha, John is my friend. He discovered FI at one of the first meetups I organized in 2015, had a massive aha moment, changed his life completely and "retired" 2 years later. I am the second guy in the article :-)

I have been organizing free meetups/talks to teach people about investing and FI. Here the last one I did: https://www.simplyfi.org/single-post/2018/06/19/Dubai-Meetup-26-How-to-Plan-for-Financial-Independence-and-Early-Retirement---by-Sebastien-Aguilar-including-recording-and-slides

I am on my way back to Belgium and would like to help grow the FI community here. Would you be interested in joining? I have started a FI Facebook group as I find it is a much easier way to build a community using FI FB groups. The group is closed so people from outside can't see anything of what is happening inside: www.facebook.com/groups/FIBelgium

I would love to meet you guys when I am back in Belgium!
Would be nice to have a meetup! Good idea.

Pannenkoek

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #217 on: June 22, 2019, 02:20:27 PM »
Anyone worried about Deutsche Bank? Saw this article, which is very bleak about their future: https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/26/business/deutsche-bank-christian-sewing/index.html

I have some money in their DXET fund, not sure if I should re-invest it in another fund to be safe?
https://www.finanzen100.de/etf/db-x-trackers-dj-euro-stoxx-50-etf-1c_H1396034427_21324299/

Even if they go bankrupt, the stocks you own via that fund are yours.

I took a quick look, and it seems to be underperforming towards the market as well: http://www.morningstar.nl/nl/etf/snapshot/snapshot.aspx?id=0P0000HNXD
I bought this fund because I wanted to be in a European fund, but most of my money is into IWDA (world fund), which has performed a lot better... So it might be the time to make a switch?

Maybe. I just follow a market cap weighted approach. No need to guess which sector or country will perform better ;)

financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #218 on: October 22, 2019, 11:11:05 AM »
story about a Belgium guy achieving FI in Dubai:
https://www.thenational.ae/business/money/dubai-resident-i-retired-at-37-after-achieving-financial-independence-in-two-years-1.665613

looks like he learned about the concept via the boglehead forum

Haha, John is my friend. He discovered FI at one of the first meetups I organized in 2015, had a massive aha moment, changed his life completely and "retired" 2 years later. I am the second guy in the article :-)

I have been organizing free meetups/talks to teach people about investing and FI. Here the last one I did: https://www.simplyfi.org/single-post/2018/06/19/Dubai-Meetup-26-How-to-Plan-for-Financial-Independence-and-Early-Retirement---by-Sebastien-Aguilar-including-recording-and-slides

I am on my way back to Belgium and would like to help grow the FI community here. Would you be interested in joining? I have started a FI Facebook group as I find it is a much easier way to build a community using FI FB groups. The group is closed so people from outside can't see anything of what is happening inside: www.facebook.com/groups/FIBelgium

I would love to meet you guys when I am back in Belgium!

It's a small (FIRE)world. You posted here just when I stopped being active here (or on my blog). But you can always send me a mail if you are in Belgium.
Amber tree leaves was the guy who used to co-organise the Belgium meet-ups so if you want to get something of the ground in Belgium he is the man to talk to. I am very open about my numbers so a Facebook group is not very appealing to me personally.


financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #219 on: October 22, 2019, 11:14:09 AM »
Anyone worried about Deutsche Bank? Saw this article, which is very bleak about their future: https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/26/business/deutsche-bank-christian-sewing/index.html

I have some money in their DXET fund, not sure if I should re-invest it in another fund to be safe?
https://www.finanzen100.de/etf/db-x-trackers-dj-euro-stoxx-50-etf-1c_H1396034427_21324299/

Even if they go bankrupt, the stocks you own via that fund are yours.


Funds are indeed protected when a bank goes under. On the other hand, Deutsche going under would result in a very messy situation, it could be months before the situation of your fund is resolved. Since it is also lagging the market I would switch to a low cost index fund and get out of any Deutsche bank products.

devBelgian

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #220 on: November 03, 2019, 06:36:59 AM »
Hi everyone,

Newcomer here, found this link through a google search.

36 years old, married, no kids yet. Working as a freelancer, looking forward to FIRE.

We are currently heavily invested in real estate (two buildings for a total of 7 units in Hainaut); the first investment went smoothly; the second however is kind of an ordeal at this point, we made many mistakes and even though we are finalizing the process, I am unhappy with myself and how I managed it.
We also bought some crypto and we put 500€ every month in ETFs.

Looking forward to exchanging with you all

GilbertB

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #221 on: November 15, 2019, 06:59:34 AM »
Hi,

I work at sea in the Offshore/Dredging sector and I live in Belgium.
I recently got fired, and have been receiving offers for short term contracts:

The most recent one is 220€ per day before tax paid in England. This would be paid in full with no deductions.
The job would be 4 weeks on 4 weeks off (4/4) only paid at sea...

So, my calculation is that 220 x 31 = 6820€
Remove 50% for taxes: 3410 / 2 = 3410 €
Divide by 2 because I am not paid on land = 1704 € Net per month
And that seems way too low...
Am I missing something?


financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #222 on: November 16, 2019, 03:44:35 AM »
Hi,

I work at sea in the Offshore/Dredging sector and I live in Belgium.
I recently got fired, and have been receiving offers for short term contracts:

The most recent one is 220€ per day before tax paid in England. This would be paid in full with no deductions.
The job would be 4 weeks on 4 weeks off (4/4) only paid at sea...

So, my calculation is that 220 x 31 = 6820€
Remove 50% for taxes: 3410 / 2 = 3410 €
Divide by 2 because I am not paid on land = 1704 € Net per month
And that seems way too low...
Am I missing something?

220 euro per day is low. Most people I know who bill their time to a company (and are not salaried) do not go below 350 euro and msot want above 400 euro. Do not forget this 'pay' also has to cover holiday time and sick time ..

GilbertB

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #223 on: November 16, 2019, 01:31:10 PM »
Hi,

I work at sea in the Offshore/Dredging sector and I live in Belgium.
I recently got fired, and have been receiving offers for short term contracts:

The most recent one is 220€ per day before tax paid in England. This would be paid in full with no deductions.
The job would be 4 weeks on 4 weeks off (4/4) only paid at sea...

So, my calculation is that 220 x 31 = 6820€
Remove 50% for taxes: 3410 / 2 = 3410 €
Divide by 2 because I am not paid on land = 1704 € Net per month
And that seems way too low...
Am I missing something?

220 euro per day is low. Most people I know who bill their time to a company (and are not salaried) do not go below 350 euro and msot want above 400 euro. Do not forget this 'pay' also has to cover holiday time and sick time ..

Thanks,
I also know Dutch 2nd Engineers accept these jobs for 250€, and they don't work for less than 3400€ per month.
So with this I can do a rough estimate of their effective tax rate; about 21%...

I will go see a tax specialist, the difference is insane!

financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #224 on: November 17, 2019, 07:23:34 AM »
Yes do that, there must be a tax advantage somewhere or otherwise the offered rate just doesn't make any sense

GilbertB

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #225 on: November 17, 2019, 01:52:46 PM »
Yes do that, there must be a tax advantage somewhere or otherwise the offered rate just doesn't make any sense

I have French friends who are Engineers on large private Yachts, and there only the base salary is taxed, all the rest (tips, bonuses etc, that can be more the 70% of the total) must be declared, but is not taxed at all!

So yeah, something is off.

calvaille

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #226 on: December 10, 2019, 10:07:24 AM »
Hi All,
I've been passively reading MMM and some of the other blogs (and/or podcasts) regarding FI for a couple of years now. I am well underway to FI myself (but not there yet).
I am living in Brussels and was wondering if there are any meetups in Belgium (I know there are some BE/NL ones but these are mostly in NL I think) and if not, if any of the people here would be interested in meeting up if we fix a date and organize something in Brussels.

financialfreedomsloth

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    • financial freedom sloth
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #227 on: December 11, 2019, 11:02:17 AM »
Hi All,
I've been passively reading MMM and some of the other blogs (and/or podcasts) regarding FI for a couple of years now. I am well underway to FI myself (but not there yet).
I am living in Brussels and was wondering if there are any meetups in Belgium (I know there are some BE/NL ones but these are mostly in NL I think) and if not, if any of the people here would be interested in meeting up if we fix a date and organize something in Brussels.
The advantage of working more localy is no more need to go to Brussels for work ;-) But amber tree works in Brussels and I know Claudia who used to comment on my blog way back in February lives near Brussels ..

Polaria

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #228 on: December 11, 2019, 12:19:36 PM »
I am living and working in Brussels. Would be nice to organize something here.

Kenpachigo

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #229 on: December 30, 2019, 03:39:38 AM »
Has anyone else followed Bacquelaine's plans to buy into the Belgian pension system? In short, between 2017 en 2020 you get an opportunity to buy extra years of pension at a bargain. At the moment, people in the private sector can't use their the years they spent in college towards their pension which means they start later to get their full pension at 45 years worked. For government employees, the time in college  is automatically covered, meaning they don't have to work that long to enjoy the full pension benefits.

The current plan -which already has been voted on but has to be put into law- is to offer people a grace period between 2017 and 2020 during which they can buy into the system for the time they spent studying (diploma-bonificatie in Dutch). The cost would be 1350 euros per year, at a maximum of 4 years. For each year invested, you would get 250 euros a year once you retire, 1000 euros a year if you do the full thing. With the payments being partially tax deductible, you'd only have to enjoy a few years of pension to have your investment pay itself back. With some play money now, you could gain yourself a nice holiday every year.

I'm not sure whether I would qualify - I have been living in Belgium for a long time, also studied there some time, then spent a number of years abroad and now I work in the Netherlands, even though I moved back to Belgium a number of years ago.

The only question is if the government will have enough money to pay these pensions in the future. And I'm not sure whether the pensions in Belgium are inflationproof.

Any thoughts on this? It seems to me like a good investment, if you can make the payment.

I only realized that this post was from 2016 when I finished my own investigation. But maybe it still has value to other readers.
In my case, I'm better of just investing that money in index funds.

Index fund investing
  • Initial cost for 4 years: 5200 (I think it's even 1500 a year, but let's assume 1300 a year)
  • Yearly market gain: 5% (conservative)
  • I still need to work at least 31year
  • End balance of invested 5200 euro = 23597 euro


Index investing assuming that you can get a max tax deduction of the money you invested
  • Normally you pay 5200
  • Assuming you are in the highest tax bracket: 5200 x (13,07%+50%) = 3279 euro you do not have to pay in taxes and get back
  • So your actual cost is only 1920 euro
  • Initial cost for 4 years: 1920
  • Yearly market gain: 5%
  • I still need to work at least 31year
  • End balance of invested 1900 = 8714 euro



Simulation on mypension.be

  • Extra monthly money: 51,88 euro (netto)
  • Yearly: 622,56 euro
  • Average age men in Belgium = 79 year
  • Enjoying retirement: 79 year- 65 retirement age = 14 years
  • 14 x 622,56 = 8716 euro benefit


So to summarize: I gain a whopping 2 euro if I buy my college years. However, to get this 2 euro profit, I  need to invest 1,9k euro for 30 years in a government with always changing rules. Examples of changing rules: adding taxes for solar panels, cancelling complete "Home tax credit system" in 3 months time, adding a "rich" tax if you have more then 500k, etc...

Q&A
"Yeah but you might live longer". Yes. But I might also die sooner. Then I lose out even more.
"Yeah but you might get worse returns then 5%". Yes. But they might also be higher. Historical market returns are 8%.