Author Topic: You have $10k you must invest...  (Read 3181 times)

Villanelle

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You have $10k you must invest...
« on: November 17, 2021, 12:10:18 PM »
...what do you buy? 

Rules: 

It must be specific stock or some other specific thingy (<--which means I'm allowing Bitcoin!, as well as gold and other commodities, but the spirit of the exercise is that it must be one specific thing, no mutual funds, bonds, etc.) 
You must buy and hold for at least... let's say 3 years.
Dividends will be reinvested so you can't cheat and take a high dividend stock to get your money sooner.

Really, I'm just asking what stocks/futures/commodities you think look promising or interesting.  Bitcoin, TSLA, Apple, Pork Bellies, whatever you want.

(To be clear, this is entirely hypothetical.  I'm looking for some fun research in my spare time and thought it would be cool to dig into some specific stocks and thought people here might have interesting choices.  I am not planning on actually buying anything other than more of my DCA'd index funds, per my chosen AA.)

EliteZags

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2021, 12:11:52 PM »
PLTR

WGH

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2021, 02:34:17 PM »
I Bonds are yielding 7.12% right now for a maximum of $10,000 per year.

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/research/indepth/ibonds/res_ibonds_iratesandterms.htm

PDXTabs

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2021, 02:57:16 PM »
ABNB.

Rosy

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2021, 07:18:05 PM »
1. Bitcoin for three years - will double in price. Meanwhile, put it to good use - if you have a bitcoin wallet you can move it anywhere or take it offline.
2. Get passive income - 8% to 12% APY or instead
3. Use it as collateral for a loan.

 

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2021, 08:03:54 PM »
Index funds. Is this a trick question?

effigy98

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2021, 11:32:50 PM »
Answer is always Bitcoin. Hedge with some VXX. If you need income and don't like seeing your investment decline because of volatility, aka bond replacement... go with NUSI.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2021, 11:34:21 PM by effigy98 »

vand

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2021, 02:13:43 AM »
I'd probably stick it into some solar energy producers that I already own,
 UK:FSFL, UK:NESF

- Currently paying out steady 7% dividend, fully covered
- The business model is simple to understand. They produce solar energy and sell it. With solar panels.. which just sit there and harvest solar energy.
- They're trading around NAV
- They're realtively stable and have a low correlation to overall stock market (beta around 0.25)
- People aren't going to stop using electricity, no matter what happens in the economy
- Significant upside potential IMO given the current disruption in the energy wholesale market

I've been gradually dumping my bonds to buy more of these companies, and see them as a great alternative to fixed income.


harvestbook

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2021, 06:46:25 AM »
I'd probably stick it into some solar energy producers that I already own,
 UK:FSFL, UK:NESF

- Currently paying out steady 7% dividend, fully covered
- The business model is simple to understand. They produce solar energy and sell it. With solar panels.. which just sit there and harvest solar energy.
- They're trading around NAV
- They're realtively stable and have a low correlation to overall stock market (beta around 0.25)
- People aren't going to stop using electricity, no matter what happens in the economy
- Significant upside potential IMO given the current disruption in the energy wholesale market

I've been gradually dumping my bonds to buy more of these companies, and see them as a great alternative to fixed income.

This logically sounds good but I looked at the 5-year performance of FSFL. You get the 7 percent dividend (currently, not sure what it was over five years) but stock price is 4 percent lower than it was five years ago. Depending on your tax situation, you're seriously lagging broad index funds. The S & P 500 has more than doubled in that time.

I'd rather have 120ish percent growth while largely controlling the taxation than 31 percent arriving on schedule and taxed at regular income tax rates (assuming you aren't reinvesting dividends). I suppose if it gives you security under the concept of "fixed income," it may be psychologically worth it, but the math doesn't look encouraging unless you are only comparing it to bonds that have returned 3-4 percent annually over the last five years.

That said, I like it better than statements like "Crypto is guaranteed to double in three years" as investment advice. Me, I am boring, I will take my chances with a share of all the public companies in the world in aggregate. Good luck out there.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2021, 06:49:07 AM by harvestbook »

Metalcat

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2021, 06:55:44 AM »
I don't understand the question. Don't we all frequently have years where we have to invest at least 10K?

Are you asking what I would do with an extra 10K? Fun money? Or what my standard investments are?

I'm confused.

Edubb20

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2021, 09:07:16 AM »
Ibonds, VTSAX, VXUS

vand

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2021, 09:41:22 AM »
I'd probably stick it into some solar energy producers that I already own,
 UK:FSFL, UK:NESF

- Currently paying out steady 7% dividend, fully covered
- The business model is simple to understand. They produce solar energy and sell it. With solar panels.. which just sit there and harvest solar energy.
- They're trading around NAV
- They're realtively stable and have a low correlation to overall stock market (beta around 0.25)
- People aren't going to stop using electricity, no matter what happens in the economy
- Significant upside potential IMO given the current disruption in the energy wholesale market

I've been gradually dumping my bonds to buy more of these companies, and see them as a great alternative to fixed income.

This logically sounds good but I looked at the 5-year performance of FSFL. You get the 7 percent dividend (currently, not sure what it was over five years) but stock price is 4 percent lower than it was five years ago. Depending on your tax situation, you're seriously lagging broad index funds. The S & P 500 has more than doubled in that time.

I'd rather have 120ish percent growth while largely controlling the taxation than 31 percent arriving on schedule and taxed at regular income tax rates (assuming you aren't reinvesting dividends). I suppose if it gives you security under the concept of "fixed income," it may be psychologically worth it, but the math doesn't look encouraging unless you are only comparing it to bonds that have returned 3-4 percent annually over the last five years.

That said, I like it better than statements like "Crypto is guaranteed to double in three years" as investment advice. Me, I am boring, I will take my chances with a share of all the public companies in the world in aggregate. Good luck out there.

Yes, I don't think of it as a part of my the equity part of my holdings.. I see it more as a replacement for the fixed income side. I want as little exposure to bonds as possible given that we have negative real yields, so anything that pays decent steady cash and is fairly stable is a candidate. I'm not trying to hit a home run, I'm trying to steadily grow my wealth..

And besides, the OP asked for something specific.. expressly forbidding index funds!
« Last Edit: November 18, 2021, 09:51:23 AM by vand »

Villanelle

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2021, 10:24:27 AM »
Index funds. Is this a trick question?

I specifically said no mutual funds.  And no bonds.

I also specifically said I'm not actually doing this, and I'm just looking for something interesting to research.  I'm not sure why that would strike you as a "trick question". 

Villanelle

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2021, 10:29:03 AM »
I don't understand the question. Don't we all frequently have years where we have to invest at least 10K?

Are you asking what I would do with an extra 10K? Fun money? Or what my standard investments are?

I'm confused.

Hmm.  I thought I was clear in my post, but I guess not.  It is purely a thought exercise.  Yes, many of us often have 10k to invest.  And many of us put that into index funds or bonds.  I certainly do.  I have never in my life bought an individual stock. 

I'm trying to get people's picks for individual stocks (or similar) to point me in the direction of fun (for me) research.  I will not, at the end of that research buy anything.  To put it another way, "What stock do you think is the bestest, if you absolutely had to stock pick, or lose out on a a free $10k?" 

I'm not sure what is confusing about that, but hopefully that clarifies a bit. 

grmagne

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2021, 10:56:10 AM »
I've got about 85% of my investable assets in the usual stuff, like index funds & bonds. But I do have about 5% in crypto and 10% in individual stocks. I would never recommend that others follow my advice, but since you're doing this for fun and have no desire to actually buy individual stocks, I'll list my investments:

Commerce:  Qurate (QRTEA), Shopify (SHOP), Goeasy (GSY on Toronto Stock Exchange)

Crypto: Mostly Ethereum. It's extremely high-risk, high-volatility but potentially higher upside than Bitcoin.

Other: Chart Industries (GTLS), Adapt Health (AHCO), Tesla (I've just sold this off as it seems vastly overvalued compared to other car companies)

I'll also point out that life insurance companies are a good bet if you think interest rates are going up. Their profits are highly correlated with changing interest rates. All of the policies they've sold over the past several decades become more/less profitable as interest rates go up/down.

dividendman

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2021, 11:07:45 AM »
I Bonds are yielding 7.12% right now for a maximum of $10,000 per year.

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/research/indepth/ibonds/res_ibonds_iratesandterms.htm

Yep, if you have exactly $10k, you can't get a better guaranteed return.

vand

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2021, 11:12:42 AM »
I don't understand the question. Don't we all frequently have years where we have to invest at least 10K?

Are you asking what I would do with an extra 10K? Fun money? Or what my standard investments are?

I'm confused.

Hmm.  I thought I was clear in my post, but I guess not.  It is purely a thought exercise.  Yes, many of us often have 10k to invest.  And many of us put that into index funds or bonds.  I certainly do.  I have never in my life bought an individual stock. 

I'm trying to get people's picks for individual stocks (or similar) to point me in the direction of fun (for me) research.  I will not, at the end of that research buy anything.  To put it another way, "What stock do you think is the bestest, if you absolutely had to stock pick, or lose out on a a free $10k?" 

I'm not sure what is confusing about that, but hopefully that clarifies a bit.

Unfortunately the lines between something specific and something blobby is not so clear to many. Is Berkshire Hathaway something specific, or just a collection on its underlying holdings? Same for all actively managed funds.. I suppose the "something specific" is the skill of the active manager.

joe189man

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2021, 11:25:12 AM »
you could look at the companies supplying the green revolution. There are many lithium and copper mining companies that have done quite well over the last year. Lithium Americas (LAC) 4x -ed  in the last year. Many others could follow suit or similar companies that supply battery components.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2021, 06:56:25 PM »
If the $10k is relatively small in an overall index fund portfolio ($250k+), then I'd agree with other posters saying Bitcoin.  It's a speculation that could go to zero, and lost about 80% of it's value a few years ago.  That said, I like BITO, the new ETF that tracks Bitcoin futures.  It charges 0.95% expense ratio... and it's competitor GBTC charges 2%.

But for a smaller ($100k) portfolio that's too much volatility and chance of crashing, and I'd go with PIMCO StocksPLUS Long Duration Fund Institutional Class (PSLDX) which I learned about on these forums.  They use a leveraged combination of stocks and bonds, beating the U.S. market almost every year.  In years when it loses by 3-5%, it has more than double that advantage in the prior and following years.  Finally, despite using leverage, they lost less than the the US market in 2008.  (See the year by year figures).
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/PSLDX/performance?p=PSLDX
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/VTI/performance?p=VTI

Rdy2Fire

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2021, 07:24:19 AM »
PLTR

I was thinking 1 stock too. Currently, I'd also go with PLTR or ME. I think both these stocks will see a lot of growth in the next 3 yrs. However if I wanted to go with something more 'solid' I'd either go with one of the index funds mentioned or QQQ

Morning Glory

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2021, 09:56:46 AM »
Here's some ideas:

-Solar panels for your house? I always wanted them but all the houses I've owned either have roofs facing the wrong way or too many surrounding trees, so the ROI never worked out.

-If you can't do solar, then what about additional insulation or a more energy-efficient HVAC system?

-Some kind of additional education for yourself/spouse/kids--bonus if it increases your frugal skills. I'm thinking along the lines of a course on foraging or growing your own food, or improving your diy skills in some way.

-Buy shit to resell  (only works if you know a lot about a specific category of item).

-Down payment on a rental property (it would have to be in a very LCOL area, for 10k to be enough of a down payment).

-Partial share of a small business

Villanelle

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2021, 10:48:21 AM »
Here's some ideas:

-Solar panels for your house? I always wanted them but all the houses I've owned either have roofs facing the wrong way or too many surrounding trees, so the ROI never worked out.

-If you can't do solar, then what about additional insulation or a more energy-efficient HVAC system?

-Some kind of additional education for yourself/spouse/kids--bonus if it increases your frugal skills. I'm thinking along the lines of a course on foraging or growing your own food, or improving your diy skills in some way.

-Buy shit to resell  (only works if you know a lot about a specific category of item).

-Down payment on a rental property (it would have to be in a very LCOL area, for 10k to be enough of a down payment).

-Partial share of a small business

LOL.  Did you read the OP, or just the title?

boarder42

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2021, 12:24:18 PM »
Dwac. Hedge against oligarchy

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2021, 12:41:38 PM »
Index funds. Is this a trick question?

I specifically said no mutual funds.  And no bonds.

I also specifically said I'm not actually doing this, and I'm just looking for something interesting to research.  I'm not sure why that would strike you as a "trick question".

Oh my bad for not understanding your worthless exercise game. My brain isnít trained to stock pick because, rightly or wrongly, Iíve learned from MMM that stock picking isnít the way to go (for me) so I donít waste my time. But since Iím feeling generous with my time and youíre clearly bored, ummm Tesla? No wait, Amazon? Apple? Microsoft? Bitcoin? Sigh.

Morning Glory

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2021, 12:51:39 PM »
Here's some ideas:

-Solar panels for your house? I always wanted them but all the houses I've owned either have roofs facing the wrong way or too many surrounding trees, so the ROI never worked out.

-If you can't do solar, then what about additional insulation or a more energy-efficient HVAC system?

-Some kind of additional education for yourself/spouse/kids--bonus if it increases your frugal skills. I'm thinking along the lines of a course on foraging or growing your own food, or improving your diy skills in some way.

-Buy shit to resell  (only works if you know a lot about a specific category of item).

-Down payment on a rental property (it would have to be in a very LCOL area, for 10k to be enough of a down payment).

-Partial share of a small business

LOL.  Did you read the OP, or just the title?

I thought solar panels would fit squarely into the category of "other specific thingy", but I suppose it's a matter of opinion.

PDXTabs

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2021, 12:56:25 PM »
Here's some ideas:

-Solar panels for your house? I always wanted them but all the houses I've owned either have roofs facing the wrong way or too many surrounding trees, so the ROI never worked out.

-If you can't do solar, then what about additional insulation or a more energy-efficient HVAC system?

-Some kind of additional education for yourself/spouse/kids--bonus if it increases your frugal skills. I'm thinking along the lines of a course on foraging or growing your own food, or improving your diy skills in some way.

-Buy shit to resell  (only works if you know a lot about a specific category of item).

-Down payment on a rental property (it would have to be in a very LCOL area, for 10k to be enough of a down payment).

-Partial share of a small business

LOL.  Did you read the OP, or just the title?

I thought solar panels would fit squarely into the category of "other specific thingy", but I suppose it's a matter of opinion.

My reading of the OP is that it needs to be a thing that you can sell for a profit after holding for at least three years. A container of solar panels might count if you thought that they would appreciate.

Villanelle

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2021, 01:14:57 PM »
Index funds. Is this a trick question?

I specifically said no mutual funds.  And no bonds.

I also specifically said I'm not actually doing this, and I'm just looking for something interesting to research.  I'm not sure why that would strike you as a "trick question".

Oh my bad for not understanding your worthless exercise game. My brain isnít trained to stock pick because, rightly or wrongly, Iíve learned from MMM that stock picking isnít the way to go (for me) so I donít waste my time. But since Iím feeling generous with my time and youíre clearly bored, ummm Tesla? No wait, Amazon? Apple? Microsoft? Bitcoin? Sigh.

What your issue?  It seems well within the general tenants of mustachianism to express an intellectual curiosity, which is what I'm doing.
Learning about a new thing doesn't feel like a waste of time to me.  But if that is so offensive to you, then why do you need to piss in someone else's Cheerios? 

Stock picking in the sense of actually buying stocks isn't for me, either.  I went out of my way to say that in the OP.  That doesn't mean that spending a few hours digging into specific stocks, learning more about evaluating a specific stock, and learning more about certain industries doesn't have interest or value.  Hearing what stocks other people think are interesting will help me focus on a few specific offerings to research.  That seems to bother you.  I'm sorry you were upset by my wanting to learn new things. 

I also don't plan on being a musician or playing an instrument, but it doesn't feel like a waste to learn a bit more about music theory. 

Retire-Canada

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2021, 01:22:23 PM »
...what do you buy? 

Rules: 

It must be specific stock or some other specific thingy

$10K?
Specific Thingy?
Must keep it for 3 years?

I'd invest in a sweet sweet mountain bike. If I am going to do something stupid with the money [ie. not invest in index funds according to my AA] I might as well be certain to really enjoy it!

Morning Glory

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2021, 01:50:04 PM »
Here's some ideas:

-Solar panels for your house? I always wanted them but all the houses I've owned either have roofs facing the wrong way or too many surrounding trees, so the ROI never worked out.

-If you can't do solar, then what about additional insulation or a more energy-efficient HVAC system?

-Some kind of additional education for yourself/spouse/kids--bonus if it increases your frugal skills. I'm thinking along the lines of a course on foraging or growing your own food, or improving your diy skills in some way.

-Buy shit to resell  (only works if you know a lot about a specific category of item).

-Down payment on a rental property (it would have to be in a very LCOL area, for 10k to be enough of a down payment).

-Partial share of a small business

LOL.  Did you read the OP, or just the title?

I thought solar panels would fit squarely into the category of "other specific thingy", but I suppose it's a matter of opinion.

My reading of the OP is that it needs to be a thing that you can sell for a profit after holding for at least three years. A container of solar panels might count if you thought that they would appreciate.

Earlier this year I doubled my money on a pile of lumber that was sitting in the barn from an unfinished project.

Maybe you could find out who makes shipping containers,  and invest in that. Also microchips.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2021, 01:56:14 PM by Morning Glory »

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2021, 09:04:41 PM »
Index funds. Is this a trick question?

I specifically said no mutual funds.  And no bonds.

I also specifically said I'm not actually doing this, and I'm just looking for something interesting to research.  I'm not sure why that would strike you as a "trick question".

Oh my bad for not understanding your worthless exercise game. My brain isnít trained to stock pick because, rightly or wrongly, Iíve learned from MMM that stock picking isnít the way to go (for me) so I donít waste my time. But since Iím feeling generous with my time and youíre clearly bored, ummm Tesla? No wait, Amazon? Apple? Microsoft? Bitcoin? Sigh.

What your issue?  It seems well within the general tenants of mustachianism to express an intellectual curiosity, which is what I'm doing.
Learning about a new thing doesn't feel like a waste of time to me.  But if that is so offensive to you, then why do you need to piss in someone else's Cheerios? 

Stock picking in the sense of actually buying stocks isn't for me, either.  I went out of my way to say that in the OP.  That doesn't mean that spending a few hours digging into specific stocks, learning more about evaluating a specific stock, and learning more about certain industries doesn't have interest or value.  Hearing what stocks other people think are interesting will help me focus on a few specific offerings to research.  That seems to bother you.  I'm sorry you were upset by my wanting to learn new things. 

I also don't plan on being a musician or playing an instrument, but it doesn't feel like a waste to learn a bit more about music theory.

Oh my issue is with you getting shitty with people for not understanding the rules to your ďlearning exerciseĒ. An exercise that you donít plan to do anything with. If youíre interested in learning about stock picks, then ask about stocks. Read Jim Collins. Or read the thread 90 passive, 10 active which is going through lots of this type of exercise. Whatever, have fun with your ďlearningĒ, Iíll stay out of your way.

JAYSLOL

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2021, 09:39:49 PM »
If I had to keep it for 3 years that rules out most of my better ideas for things I would actually invest/speculate/flip with $10k.  I pretty much stick to index funds for long term, and if I planned to invest/speculate outside index funds, it would be something I would want to be able to flip much quicker, such as a shipping container load of stand up paddle boards from China to resell or something like that.  Honestly, the only thing I might throw $10k at if I had to for 3 years would be like a 50/50 split of Bitcoin (and/or other crypto) and gold (and/or silver).  That way, if everything goes up, I win, if crypto keeps going up but precious metals stay where they are, I still win, or if crypto crashes but precious metals donít at least Iíve not lost the whole $10k. 

Morning Glory

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2021, 10:12:15 PM »
Peer to peer lending was popular on here a while back.  Is that still around?

EliteZags

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2021, 06:02:12 PM »
I'm 80-90% index funds also but the balance that I put into a separate Webull acct with just long term growth stocks mainly from finance Youtubers (Meet Kevin, Financial Education etc) has been killing the indexes' returns each year (by at least double to quadruple)

SparkyPeanut

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2021, 04:27:29 PM »
I'm 80-90% index funds also but the balance that I put into a separate Webull acct with just long term growth stocks mainly from finance Youtubers (Meet Kevin, Financial Education etc) has been killing the indexes' returns each year (by at least double to quadruple)

Their stock picks really haven't!

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2021, 12:13:32 AM »
Peer to peer lending was popular on here a while back.  Is that still around?
I exited Lending Club years ago, for a few reasons:
(1) I saw higher default rates than their listed numbers.  I don't recall the exact level, but if you earned 7%, then a 1 in 14 default rate makes your return 0%.
(2) Their return calculations were flawed.  When I bought risky notes at a fraction of their cost, they counted the discount against my returns - even though someone else paid that, not me.
(3) Hedge funds were given access, and bought everything in sight.  Trying to find loans became difficult.

Morning Glory

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Re: You have $10k you must invest...
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2021, 07:28:54 PM »
Peer to peer lending was popular on here a while back.  Is that still around?
I exited Lending Club years ago, for a few reasons:
(1) I saw higher default rates than their listed numbers.  I don't recall the exact level, but if you earned 7%, then a 1 in 14 default rate makes your return 0%.
(2) Their return calculations were flawed.  When I bought risky notes at a fraction of their cost, they counted the discount against my returns - even though someone else paid that, not me.
(3) Hedge funds were given access, and bought everything in sight.  Trying to find loans became difficult.

That must be the reason it disappeared. I never tried it but I remember the discussion, before crypto got popular. 

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!