Author Topic: Write courtesy note to leave broker  (Read 5936 times)

Chesleygirl

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Write courtesy note to leave broker
« on: July 12, 2017, 04:21:30 PM »
I am transferring accounts from my brokerage, as I feel I'm getting ripped off with high fees. I just mailed paperwork today to transfer two accounts (I have five total). Should I send a courtesy email to my broker to let him know? I don't want to create hard feelings and do things behind his back. And how should I word the email?  I don't have time to go in his office and talk. Eventually I will transfer all the accounts out, but I need their cooperation and good will so that the process doesn't get stalled.

I no longer want to pay the high fees this broker charges for investments. I did a cost comparison of fees and found out I could get far less expensive investments elsewhere.

Zamboni

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2017, 05:20:34 PM »
He knows he is ripping you off to feather his own nest. I don't think you owe him anything unless he is a friend of the family, and even then I'm not sure I'd bother.

specialkayme

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2017, 05:37:36 PM »
Transferring accounts (both in and out) from brokers is fairly common. He probably won't think twice about it.

I just transferred my IRA away from my broker 2 weeks ago. I got no email, phone call, letter, anything from him. He still holds my wife's account.

Chesleygirl

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2017, 05:43:02 PM »
He knows he is ripping you off to feather his own nest. I don't think you owe him anything unless he is a friend of the family, and even then I'm not sure I'd bother.

He's not family friend but I've spoken with him on several occasions, he is a new broker. I met him when he was going door to door in the neighborhood. Seemed like a nice guy, told me he could help me make a LOT of money (as he put it) if I invested with him. I will need their cooperation to help move my accounts out. Sad thing is, they charge an exit fee for each account I move out.

bender

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2017, 05:53:42 PM »
He knows he is ripping you off to feather his own nest. I don't think you owe him anything unless he is a friend of the family, and even then I'm not sure I'd bother.

He's not family friend but I've spoken with him on several occasions, he is a new broker. I met him when he was going door to door in the neighborhood. Seemed like a nice guy, told me he could help me make a LOT of money (as he put it) if I invested with him. I will need their cooperation to help move my accounts out. Sad thing is, they charge an exit fee for each account I move out.

This is a red flag!  I hope it's a reputable brokerage house.  I've never heard of anyone going door to door selling investment products that did NOT turn out to be a scam.


Travis

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2017, 05:54:55 PM »
He knows he is ripping you off to feather his own nest. I don't think you owe him anything unless he is a friend of the family, and even then I'm not sure I'd bother.

He's not family friend but I've spoken with him on several occasions, he is a new broker. I met him when he was going door to door in the neighborhood. Seemed like a nice guy, told me he could help me make a LOT of money (as he put it) if I invested with him. I will need their cooperation to help move my accounts out. Sad thing is, they charge an exit fee for each account I move out.

Sounds like a list of reasons for that letter to say "piss off!" should you decide to write it.  He's a salesman and this was a business relationship. You owe him nothing.  You don't even need his "cooperation" to move your accounts.  Have your new institution handle the paperwork and you don't need to look at him or his organization ever again.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 06:39:41 PM by Travis »
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Travis

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2017, 05:59:46 PM »
He knows he is ripping you off to feather his own nest. I don't think you owe him anything unless he is a friend of the family, and even then I'm not sure I'd bother.

He's not family friend but I've spoken with him on several occasions, he is a new broker. I met him when he was going door to door in the neighborhood. Seemed like a nice guy, told me he could help me make a LOT of money (as he put it) if I invested with him. I will need their cooperation to help move my accounts out. Sad thing is, they charge an exit fee for each account I move out.

This is a red flag!  I hope it's a reputable brokerage house.  I've never heard of anyone going door to door selling investment products that did NOT turn out to be a scam.

Edward Jones was still doing door to door as of a couple years ago.  It's how they "get to know the neighbors" when they open a new office in town.
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L.A.S.

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2017, 06:35:44 PM »
If you contact him you could get the hard sell and might waffle on the transfer.  Your finances are no longer any of his business.  You don't owe him any explanation or a note or anything.  Just make a clean break.

Mr Griz

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2017, 06:57:34 PM »
I transferred a ML account a few years ago. They seemed surprised that I even contacted them directly first.

JohnWC

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2017, 07:52:22 PM »
You don't have to say anything to the old broker and my understanding is they aren't even supposed to contact you directly for a set period of time after the transfer. You don't really have to do anything and you're definitely not required to.

What were the fees that drove you off if you don't mind sharing the specifics?

Chesleygirl

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2017, 09:39:27 PM »

This is a red flag!  I hope it's a reputable brokerage house.  I've never heard of anyone going door to door selling investment products that did NOT turn out to be a scam.

He is with Edward Jones, so typically they go door to door to get business. That's how I met him. They are reputable for having high fees.


Chesleygirl

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2017, 09:44:30 PM »
You don't have to say anything to the old broker and my understanding is they aren't even supposed to contact you directly for a set period of time after the transfer. You don't really have to do anything and you're definitely not required to.

What were the fees that drove you off if you don't mind sharing the specifics?

Load fees in the mutual funds, around 5.25%. High expense ratios. There is also a $40 yearly account maintenance fee. But what they don't tell you, is that this is for each account you have with them.  So if you have five accounts with them, as I do, that's $200 a year you pay in maintenance fees! I previously thought I would only pay a flat $40 a year for everything.

In the beginning, when I asked about fees, the financial adviser told me I would only pay $40 a year in fees. He didn't tell me $40 for each account. He didn't tell me about "load fees".

Also, when they do trades in and out of your accounts, there are fees involved with that although I think they are mostly hidden fees.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 10:17:21 PM by Chesleygirl »

Travis

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2017, 09:52:49 PM »
So out of a $5500 IRA contribution, he was taking 6% right off the top? Sounds like an EJ financial plan to me.
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Chesleygirl

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2017, 10:22:58 PM »
So out of a $5500 IRA contribution, he was taking 6% right off the top? Sounds like an EJ financial plan to me.

They have  AUM fee now with IRAs, where they take 1.35% of your account but there are really more fees than that. With 529 plans, they took loading fees whenever I put money in, over 5% of whatever amount I put in.

I'm scared to dig any further to find out how much damage has been done.  Best just to leave.

They will charge me $95 to close each account, too.

It might be worth to pay for financial services, if your adviser is a real financial adviser. But most of theirs are not; they're just salespeople.

I'm sending my email sometime this week.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2017, 10:30:41 PM »
You are actually worried about a sales guy that deliberately lied/kept information from you and signed you up for insanely high fee accounts - you want to leave things with no hard feelings? You are being too nice, and nice gets you screwed over frequently (as in this case - I'll bet if you weren't so nice the guy wouldn't have even made it past your front door - once you let them in, they know how to sell their shitty services).

You owe them nothing. Contacting them in any way just opens the door to them trying to play off the whole "but I'm your buddy!" which is part of EJ's training. They prey on the innocent, the naive and the lonely and the elderly (who are sometimes all of the previous) by playing up the friendly neighborhood financial planner shtick.

Ask about the family, how was the vacation, is that old sports injury still flaring up? Don't worry your pretty little head about the scary complexities of the investment world - I'm your good friend & neighbor - I've got your back! Oh, no, don't worry about that crazy high front load fee or the management fee or the sell fee or the just allowing you to exist fee - they're all completely normal and standard and there's no need to ask anyone else about them at all because that's what you pay ME for, right?

Run far, far away and don't give them another thought or second of your time or energy - let alone waste your breath or bandwidth offering them any sort of note about why you're leaving. They already know why - you finally realized they were the horrible company they are and wised up enough to escape them.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 10:36:47 PM by Frankies Girl »
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Chesleygirl

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2017, 11:16:17 PM »
They do know how to play things up. This is the second Edward Jones adviser I've dealt with. First one went to my church, I invested some accounts with him, he left the business eventually. Ed Jones people are so nice in the beginning. Yes, I'm lonely and also somewhat financially ignorant, so I was probably a good target. After I'm out for good, my biggest challenge will be avoiding EJ financial advisers altogether. Which is hard to do, because they seem to be everywhere.

PizzaSteve

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2017, 11:48:10 PM »

This is a red flag!  I hope it's a reputable brokerage house.  I've never heard of anyone going door to door selling investment products that did NOT turn out to be a scam.

He is with Edward Jones, so typically they go door to door to get business. That's how I met him. They are reputable for having high fees.
Don't walk, run from this 'abusive relationship.'  I am glad you woke up.  You owe him nothing.  He owes you an apology.

Frankly, i would sue them in small claims for reimbursement of loads and fees, claimkkng they lied and didn't disclose.  You might get them to settle for something back.  I would try to get them waived now by claiming their rep said there would be no closing fees, etc.  Worth a try.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 11:51:39 PM by PizzaSteve »
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Mighty-Dollar

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2017, 04:28:43 AM »
I no longer want to pay the high fees this broker charges for investments. I did a cost comparison of fees and found out I could get far less expensive investments elsewhere.
Never mix business with personal, especially when it comes to your investment money! This is not a soap opera. I would just bail outta there with no note. Brokers are non-fiduciaries, meaning they don't legally work for you and your best interests. The disrespect began on day one when Mr. Broker didn't even educate you on the difference between a fee-only fiduciary and a non-fiduciary, and he didn't notify you that he would be selling you products that are not in your best interests, like expensive actively managed mutual funds. Most advisors have one goal: transfer as much money as possible from you to them.
Quote
Seemed like a nice guy, told me he could help me make a LOT of money (as he put it) if I invested with him. I will need their cooperation to help move my accounts out. Sad thing is, they charge an exit fee for each account I move out.
Correction. He IS a shark! Total snake oil salesman if he's going door to door and claiming he'll beat the indexes. Exit fee?  That's outrageous. I would have slammed the door in his face. BTW they are ALL nice!
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 04:31:59 AM by Mighty-Dollar »

Chesleygirl

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2017, 08:24:02 AM »
I had thought that brokers did have a fiduciary responsibility of some sort. I guess not. I did a lot of reading on this company, it's very old, well established with local offices all over the US.  So I did some homework on it to begin with, and thought it would be okay to move my money there. When they tell people, it only costs $40 a year to invest with us, they're lying.

From what I've read, nobody ever gets out of paying exit fees so I view it as sunk costs and will move on. I've been told I'm better off self investing with index funds.

I have nothing against fees, per se, but with Jones, the fees are excessive. They need to realize this, eventually they'll go out of business if they don't. I wonder how many more people move their accounts out of Jones.



trollwithamustache

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2017, 09:04:01 AM »
I had thought that brokers did have a fiduciary responsibility of some sort. I guess not.

your broker only has a fiduciary duty towards you when dealing with your retirement (401k, IRA type) accounts. This is a brand new dept of labor regulation that the industry is getting used to because it is "overly harsh" and " a ridiculous level of oversite". For the majority of brokerage accounts the broker has no fiduciary duty to the account owner.

Vanguard.

JohnWC

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2017, 09:26:14 AM »
Many advisors do charge extraordinarily high percentage fees or use front loaded funds to low balance accounts, anything under $100k, since it's a similar investment in time for them to manage a sub $100k account vs a $1M account. Your $1M account holder is probably looking at more like a .75% yearly fee  or less. I think an account closing fee is immoral and should be illegal... very few advisory firms charge you to close an account. Your new advisor or brokerage should be able to close out the account without you contacting EJ.

The new DOL fiduciary rules actually encourage/require the use of front loaded T-shares which will have a 2.5% front end load and sometimes a trailing fee of 1%. That's a big upgrade from the 5-ish% A-shares you were sold by EJ but still not a great deal compared to the special treatment given to wealthy investors.

FINate

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2017, 09:37:04 AM »
You are actually worried about a sales guy that deliberately lied/kept information from you and signed you up for insanely high fee accounts - you want to leave things with no hard feelings? You are being too nice, and nice gets you screwed over frequently (as in this case - I'll bet if you weren't so nice the guy wouldn't have even made it past your front door - once you let them in, they know how to sell their shitty services).

You owe them nothing. Contacting them in any way just opens the door to them trying to play off the whole "but I'm your buddy!" which is part of EJ's training. They prey on the innocent, the naive and the lonely and the elderly (who are sometimes all of the previous) by playing up the friendly neighborhood financial planner shtick.

Ask about the family, how was the vacation, is that old sports injury still flaring up? Don't worry your pretty little head about the scary complexities of the investment world - I'm your good friend & neighbor - I've got your back! Oh, no, don't worry about that crazy high front load fee or the management fee or the sell fee or the just allowing you to exist fee - they're all completely normal and standard and there's no need to ask anyone else about them at all because that's what you pay ME for, right?

Run far, far away and don't give them another thought or second of your time or energy - let alone waste your breath or bandwidth offering them any sort of note about why you're leaving. They already know why - you finally realized they were the horrible company they are and wised up enough to escape them.

Well stated!

Chesleygirl

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2017, 10:36:27 AM »
Many advisors do charge extraordinarily high percentage fees or use front loaded funds to low balance accounts, anything under $100k, since it's a similar investment in time for them to manage a sub $100k account vs a $1M account. Your $1M account holder is probably looking at more like a .75% yearly fee  or less. I think an account closing fee is immoral and should be illegal... very few advisory firms charge you to close an account. Your new advisor or brokerage should be able to close out the account without you contacting EJ.

So, do advisers make good commission off small accounts around 100K? I kind of wondered why he'd want to waste time with smaller accounts like mine. I pay a bigger percentage of fees than a wealthier account holder does.

I also kind of wonder if many super wealthy people invest with Edward Jones, anyway.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 10:38:58 AM by Chesleygirl »

dycker1978

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2017, 10:51:46 AM »
Many advisors do charge extraordinarily high percentage fees or use front loaded funds to low balance accounts, anything under $100k, since it's a similar investment in time for them to manage a sub $100k account vs a $1M account. Your $1M account holder is probably looking at more like a .75% yearly fee  or less. I think an account closing fee is immoral and should be illegal... very few advisory firms charge you to close an account. Your new advisor or brokerage should be able to close out the account without you contacting EJ.

So, do advisers make good commission off small accounts around 100K? I kind of wondered why he'd want to waste time with smaller accounts like mine. I pay a bigger percentage of fees than a wealthier account holder does.

I also kind of wonder if many super wealthy people invest with Edward Jones, anyway.

Back in the old days, way before MMM I used to sell for Primarica.  That is right  I thought a MLM investment company was good.  Anyway, we got paid a percentage of the initial investment.  Like 3% or something(there is your front load fees) any way, 100k worked out to be 3k or so in my pocket.  Not huge money, but during tax time you could do this 3 or 4 times a month.  That was until I grew a conscience.


FINate

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2017, 11:08:36 AM »
Many advisors do charge extraordinarily high percentage fees or use front loaded funds to low balance accounts, anything under $100k, since it's a similar investment in time for them to manage a sub $100k account vs a $1M account. Your $1M account holder is probably looking at more like a .75% yearly fee  or less. I think an account closing fee is immoral and should be illegal... very few advisory firms charge you to close an account. Your new advisor or brokerage should be able to close out the account without you contacting EJ.

So, do advisers make good commission off small accounts around 100K? I kind of wondered why he'd want to waste time with smaller accounts like mine. I pay a bigger percentage of fees than a wealthier account holder does.

I also kind of wonder if many super wealthy people invest with Edward Jones, anyway.

From what I could find online, EJ charges an annual fee of 1.35% for accounts under $250k.

This is highly profitable, even with relatively small accounts. Why? Because "actively managed" is not as active as it implies. Most of the "work" is meeting with clients, making small talk. Initially, for a new account, this may be a little more intensive, but after the account is established it requires very little effort. Software automates rebalancing, generating reports, etc. for the manager.

Let's say you have $20k invested, that means they are getting $270 for an hour of chit chat. Not bad for an "adviser" with scant qualifications (I know people who became EJ advisers - they are first and foremost salespeople - not very bright, little/no formal education in finance, would never trust them with my money). 

bender

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2017, 12:23:34 PM »

This is a red flag!  I hope it's a reputable brokerage house.  I've never heard of anyone going door to door selling investment products that did NOT turn out to be a scam.

He is with Edward Jones, so typically they go door to door to get business. That's how I met him. They are reputable for having high fees.

Ha nice!

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2017, 12:35:37 PM »
Oh Chelseygirl, I am glad you are getting out!  Edward Jones is terrible.

If you don't mind disclosing, where are you going?  Vanguard, Fidelity, or Schwab?  Those are the good ones that get recommended here, with Vanguard being the best in general.

Why are you only transferring two of the five right now?  The sooner you are completely out from EJ's control, the better.  I've heard that EJ makes it very difficult to get accounts closed.
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Chesleygirl

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2017, 12:56:15 PM »
If you don't mind disclosing, where are you going?  Vanguard, Fidelity, or Schwab?  Those are the good ones that get recommended here, with Vanguard being the best in general.

Why are you only transferring two of the five right now?  The sooner you are completely out from EJ's control, the better.  I've heard that EJ makes it very difficult to get accounts closed.

I am learning toward Vanguard for the two IRAs.

So EJ will often try to stall the process of closing accounts? It took them no time at all to set up the accounts when I joined. Like a few days, maybe.
I wonder how long they'll drag their feet to close these accounts.

I'm concerned if they make errors moving the IRAs I could wind up getting taxed.

PizzaSteve

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2017, 01:45:15 PM »
Leaning?  Go, now!  I mean like authorize vanguard to get the assets for you now.  I am sure their team knows how to pull all assets from an EJ account.  You can transfer assets in kind and have vanguard dispose of them for you.  EJ is required by law to comply with a valid transfer request.

If you have any kind of automatic reinvesment of dividends, tell EJ to stop it, effective immediately.  On all funds, for all accounts.  This will save any further load damage as dividends are paid.
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Chesleygirl

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2017, 02:02:50 PM »
If you have any kind of automatic reinvesment of dividends, tell EJ to stop it, effective immediately.  On all funds, for all accounts.  This will save any further load damage as dividends are paid.

That's a good idea. Do they reinvest dividends in IRAs and 529 plans? I'm just curious. I know 529 plans are limited to only two changes per twelve-month period. Hopefully they cant' mess with those too much. I once talked to a fee-based adviser about his services, and he wanted me to pull out of the 529s, because he said he 'could do other things with them'. He said he didn't like 529s because they could only be changed twice a year. That was kind of a red flag to me and I never spoke to him again. He obviously wanted free money that he could mess around with. Ick.

Also, for anyone considering investing with Edward Jones. They aren't honest when they say it's only $40 a year admin fee. It's $40 a year per each account you have invested with them.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 03:38:58 PM by Chesleygirl »

With This Herring

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2017, 03:58:41 PM »
If you don't mind disclosing, where are you going?  Vanguard, Fidelity, or Schwab?  Those are the good ones that get recommended here, with Vanguard being the best in general.

Why are you only transferring two of the five right now?  The sooner you are completely out from EJ's control, the better.  I've heard that EJ makes it very difficult to get accounts closed.

I am learning toward Vanguard for the two IRAs.

So EJ will often try to stall the process of closing accounts? It took them no time at all to set up the accounts when I joined. Like a few days, maybe.
I wonder how long they'll drag their feet to close these accounts.

I'm concerned if they make errors moving the IRAs I could wind up getting taxed.
Leaning?  Go, now!  I mean like authorize vanguard to get the assets for you now.  I am sure their team knows how to pull all assets from an EJ account.  You can transfer assets in kind and have vanguard dispose of them for you.  EJ is required by law to comply with a valid transfer request.

If you have any kind of automatic reinvesment of dividends, tell EJ to stop it, effective immediately.  On all funds, for all accounts.  This will save any further load damage as dividends are paid.

+1 to PizzaSteve's transfer to Vanguard advice ASAP

Yes, EJ is known for dragging feet when closing out accounts.  You do not want to tell EJ to close accounts and send you the checks, then have you send the checks to Vanguard.  You want to tell Vanguard "Take all these accounts from Edward Jones."  Vanguard will be better at making sure this happens than you.  Vanguard will make sure there isn't aren't tax-error-causing delays between EJ officially closing the EJ IRA account and Vanguard putting the funds in your Vanguard IRA account.

Do it like ripping off a bandaid and call Vanguard ASAP to start the process from Vanguard's end on all five accounts.

I enjoyed/hated this (somewhat old) personal experience with Edward Jones:
http://kronstantinople.blogspot.com/p/edward-jones-saga.html

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    There are many accounts not only of poor advice and exploitation but also of petty, defensive behavior on the part of Jones advisors.
    "We were very disappointed with Edward Jones, so we had RBC transfer and close out the accounts we had at Edward Jones. We were informed by RBC that Edward Jones was being very unprofessional about this process.They (EJ) dragged things out beyond what it normally takes, and then told us to get our son's account out of there as well."
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     "(Getting involved with Edward Jones) was the beginning of a journey to the ninth circle of hell that will never end until my dying day," a man from North Carolina writes. "The details of how this all came about can fill a book. It has everything from ethically questionable actions to felonious financial fraud."
       A number of clients say that after experiencing significant losses in their portfolios, they asked their FAs to put their money in very safe financial instruments. They FAs agreed to do so but didn't follow through. The clients pressed him repeatedly, they say, and watched helplessly as they continued to lose money in the accounts they asked to have closed.
     Several also say they became so upset with their losses, and with the cold unresponsiveness of their FA, that they asked to close all accounts and to have their funds returned to them. They describe a nightmare scenario in which they are simply ignored. Some claim to have contacted the Compliance Department at Edward Jones headquarters to have the matter resolved "and they were just as rude."
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"My FA purchased for one of my accounts 400 shares of BP without discussion or authorization on May 27, 2010. When I complained, I was stalled off by their compliance department....I decided that I needed to close the account. Iíve emailed them, written them, talked to them on the phone for three weeks now and canít get my money."
Because your toaster got hacked because you tried to watch porn on your blender.

6-year CPA currently on hiatus.  Botched this.  Working again. 
Go soak your beans.  You know you keep forgetting.

L.A.S.

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2017, 07:20:48 PM »
If you don't mind disclosing, where are you going?  Vanguard, Fidelity, or Schwab?  Those are the good ones that get recommended here, with Vanguard being the best in general.

Why are you only transferring two of the five right now?  The sooner you are completely out from EJ's control, the better.  I've heard that EJ makes it very difficult to get accounts closed.

I am learning toward Vanguard for the two IRAs.

So EJ will often try to stall the process of closing accounts? It took them no time at all to set up the accounts when I joined. Like a few days, maybe.
I wonder how long they'll drag their feet to close these accounts.

I'm concerned if they make errors moving the IRAs I could wind up getting taxed.

Have you called and talked to Vanguard yet?  You should.  Trust me.  They deal with this situation all. the. time. 

You should not talk to your old broker or utter the word "check" to anyone.  There are no checks.  Once you fill out the paperwork with Vanguard, they will set up the appropriate accounts on their end, and then will request that each of your accounts at EJ be transfer to the receiving account using the Automated Customer Account Transfer System (ACATS).  Anything the can transfer "in-kind" will, and can then be liquidated and reinvested at Vanguard. Anything that is proprietary and cannot be held outside of EJ will be liquidated and cash will transfer to the new account and be placed in the core settlement account.

Chesleygirl

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2017, 09:00:14 PM »
Thanks for the info. I will call Vanguard and talk to them tomorrow.

Chesleygirl

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2017, 09:03:37 PM »
I just checked my Edward Jones IRA accounts online.

They've been trading in and out of it like crazy. Lots of dividends, reinvestments, etc. What in the hell is going on.

The amount of activity in both IRAs is mind boggling.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 09:07:23 PM by Chesleygirl »

PizzaSteve

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2017, 11:57:53 PM »
Send them a note in writing to cease all trading activity in your account, including reinvesting dividends.  Say they will be respible for all costs and losses if they ignore these instructions.  Contact vanguard and print out and keep statements.
All posts are opinions of the author subject to independent verification by the reader.  No representations of fact are asserted regarding commercial products or services.

Pizzasteve is planning to mostly be inactive and avoid debates.  In the event of a rare post, no need to reply or quote if you expect a response, as i am posting information an opinion meant to stand on its own.

Chesleygirl

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2017, 06:25:22 AM »
okay. So if I tell them to stop all trading activity in my account they have to stop? The number of trades is pure insanity. Buying one thing, selling it a few days later. That makes no sense. No wonder the IRA is not going 'up' even though the market is good. It's all the expenses incurred in these trades.

L.A.S.

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2017, 07:32:54 AM »
okay. So if I tell them to stop all trading activity in my account they have to stop? The number of trades is pure insanity. Buying one thing, selling it a few days later. That makes no sense. No wonder the IRA is not going 'up' even though the market is good. It's all the expenses incurred in these trades.

Maybe, but probably not.  If the accounts are set up as a managed, or discretionary accounts, then the investment advisor makes all investment decisions and doesn't need to, nor will he, consult you.  The discretionary account disclosures/agreements these days are usually written to be bulletproof to protect the advisors.  I'm fairly certain that in a situation like the one you describe the advisor could ignore your express instructions to stop trading activity in the account and point to the discretionary account disclosure as controlling and continue to manage the account as they wish.  Of course, if you call and talk to them, or email them, they will say nice, noncommittal things like: "I understand your concern, let me check with the corporate office on that."   "We'll take that into consideration going forward."  "Don't worry so much about the details.  Leave those to us.  Lets talk about your goals." ETC. 

The only way to stop it is to move the money/investments and close the account, fire the advisor, and set up non-discretionary accounts elsewhere.

Chesleygirl

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2017, 07:58:14 AM »
I just called Vanguard but it will cost me $$ to transition my account over to them. There could be fees associated with it all considering all the trades in the accounts. Maybe I should just cough up the fee money and be done with it. I just contacted my FA at Edward Jones and told him to stop the trading.

Another Reader

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2017, 09:02:38 AM »
The cost to move your accounts will be a lot less expensive in the long run than leaving the accounts with the blood sucking parasites at EJ. 

Do you have a bricks and mortar Fidelity office near you?  In your shoes, I would sit down with a Fidelity rep and see if they can give you advice about the least expensive way to liquidate the EJ holdings and/or move them over "in kind."  Fidelity offers similar low cost funds to Vanguard, a great selection of commission-free ETF's, a better website, and superior customer service.  They will actually help you, which Vanguard may not.  The bozos at Vanguard "lost" a rollover IRA of mine for more than a month.  Incompetence from beginning to end.  Lousy website as well.

Chesleygirl

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2017, 11:52:43 AM »
The cost to move your accounts will be a lot less expensive in the long run than leaving the accounts with the blood sucking parasites at EJ. 

Do you have a bricks and mortar Fidelity office near you?  In your shoes, I would sit down with a Fidelity rep and see if they can give you advice about the least expensive way to liquidate the EJ holdings and/or move them over "in kind."  Fidelity offers similar low cost funds to Vanguard, a great selection of commission-free ETF's, a better website, and superior customer service.  They will actually help you, which Vanguard may not.  The bozos at Vanguard "lost" a rollover IRA of mine for more than a month.  Incompetence from beginning to end.  Lousy website as well.

Thanks. I'm probably going to go with Fidelity now as I understand they will give more breaks on the fees. And I can sit down and talk with a live person. It might be cheaper to liquidate everything, not sure. If they will even reimburse the close out fees from EJ, that will help.

My Financial advisor at Edward Jones claims that someone else churned my account. Not him. Interesting.


Another Reader

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #40 on: July 14, 2017, 12:52:12 PM »
The Fidelity rep should be able to look at your statement and tell you what can and cannot be moved over "in kind."  Usually that means having to liquidate any proprietary EJ products and any other funds not traded on the open market.  Fidelity should also explain the cost of selling the "in kind" funds and shares once they get to Fidelity. It is likely cheaper to sell after you move, but some front load funds might not incur a sales charge at EJ.

Best to clean this up quickly, even if it costs you a little more to do so.  If you have big gains in anything in a taxable account, the gains will likely be taxable.  They may be offset by losses incurred when you sell other funds in taxable accounts.

Your EJ "adviser" is in big trouble...  File a complaint for the account churning.

Chesleygirl

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #41 on: July 14, 2017, 01:52:29 PM »
The Fidelity rep should be able to look at your statement and tell you what can and cannot be moved over "in kind."  Usually that means having to liquidate any proprietary EJ products and any other funds not traded on the open market.  Fidelity should also explain the cost of selling the "in kind" funds and shares once they get to Fidelity. It is likely cheaper to sell after you move, but some front load funds might not incur a sales charge at EJ.

Best to clean this up quickly, even if it costs you a little more to do so.  If you have big gains in anything in a taxable account, the gains will likely be taxable.  They may be offset by losses incurred when you sell other funds in taxable accounts.

Your EJ "adviser" is in big trouble...  File a complaint for the account churning.

I am meeting with Fidelity ASAP on Monday morning and bringing my account statements with me (made the appointment just now on the phone). So he can look over everything. He said some things I told him about would be cheap to transfer, like $4.00 for each. But he wasn't sure about other ones.

My EJ adviser claims he did not do the churning. That it was done "by corporate".  He said I wasn't incurring fees from it, but I'm not so sure. It shows the costs of the trades on my statements.

L.A.S.

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #42 on: July 14, 2017, 02:25:26 PM »
Good luck.

I hope everything turns out okay for you.  Also be careful with Fidelity, too.  They have some very good low cost index funds that are competitive with Vanguard.  But they also have expensive active management.  Depending on your asset level, they may try to up-sell you to go with their active/professional management or buy actively managed funds with really high expense ratios.  This might be better than the management at EJ, but I don't think by much.  I would suggest avoiding their expensive stuff and reading up at bogleheads and around here about how to create a simple self-managed investment plan for yourself using low cost index funds.

As I'm sure you've probably realized there is a common theme: The financial industry makes most of its money off of uninformed and/or naive customers, not off of selling great products or fantastic financial services.


Chesleygirl

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #43 on: July 14, 2017, 03:56:38 PM »
Thanks.

I plan to invest only in cheap index funds. No actively managed funds. I read that Fidelity has some funds that are cheaper than Vanguard's.

Another Reader

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2017, 04:20:54 PM »
Just let the Fidelity rep know you will be using the low cost index funds and or commission-free index ETF's.    They should understand that and not sell you on anything else.  If you are not sure about anything, tell the rep you need time to to research and understand what is being suggested.

Vanguard is ok for the confident DIY-er that wants a simple portfolio.  Fidelity will provide more support for the same cost.  I prefer more support and a local office where I can meet with someone that can help me right then and there.

Aggie1999

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #45 on: July 14, 2017, 05:04:08 PM »
+1 on making sure the Fidelity rep doesn't try to hook you into high fee funds, etc. Most here will suggest a simple 2, 3 or 4 fund portfolio (total US market equities, total international equities, total US bond and total international bond). See Fidelity section of the following link for the 3 fund variant:

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Three-fund_portfolio

Also, you might consider before investing whether the bond portion is right for you and if so how much.

Chesleygirl

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2017, 05:36:21 PM »
I'm printing that out to read tonight.  It also mentions "hold your age in bonds", however they would be too conservative for me. I'm okay with only 30% in bonds. And then 70% in stocks split evenly between international and domestic.

I also agree with  the above poster who said Vanguard is better for more confident investors. I like the idea of having a local office I can go to, to talk to someone in person.

Chesleygirl

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2017, 05:38:25 PM »
https://www.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/investing-ideas/index-funds

These are some index funds with fidelity that are cheaper than Vanguard. I'd be interested in the Fidelity 500 Index Premium.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #48 on: July 14, 2017, 06:14:20 PM »
https://www.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/investing-ideas/index-funds

These are some index funds with fidelity that are cheaper than Vanguard. I'd be interested in the Fidelity 500 Index Premium.

Fidelity 500 is a fine mutual fund, but there are several others that are even better in terms of diversity and cost. All of the following (and in the Bogleheads link) are either at the same or better than cost wise/performance to Vanguard, or near as dammit considering you also get the benefit of Fido's slightly better customer service.

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Fidelity
^all the comparable funds to Vanguard's stable of mutual funds.

I have my entire portfolio with Fido, and I use the following:

Fidelity Total Market Index Fund (FSTVX)
Fidelity U.S. Bond Index Fund (FSITX)

Fidelity Real Estate Index Fund (FSRVX)
^Small amount in a real estate fund (this is absolutely unnecessary for most everyone, but I personally like a tiny % since I like the idea of real estate, but not the actual hassle of being a landlord or otherwise keeping up with real estate stuff)

I do not personally hold any international anything as I subscribe to the idea that the U.S. market contains enough companies that have a worldwide presence, but if you do want a percentage in international, Fido does offer several strong comparable funds (to Vanguard).

That's it - 3 funds total across all my accounts, zero cost for management (self manage), zero service or buy/sell fees, and a very low average (between 0.045-0.09%) on my expense ratios. I have access to my portfolio through their website, can contact my personal rep or just call up a random rep if I feel like it, or go visit a storefront for any questions. As long as you steer clear of their managed funds (and the best they have for low expense and diversified is in that Bogleheads link) you get stellar service and performance for dirt cheap pricing.
 
If any rep tries to lead and or pressure you to do anything other than index funds, tell them you'll have to think about it and then come here and ask for help. But also, they don't hard sell (at least they're not supposed to!) so just stay firm in needing time if that's what it takes and they should be quite helpful and not push you into anything you don't feel comfortable with (and definitely do some reading here, at Bogleheads, and ask lots of questions if you need to!!)

Good luck with everything. I'm so sorry you got in with the EJ crowd, but you are a smart cookie to start questioning things and taking control. Some folks never take the blinders off and are too scared of ever learning how things work enough to see how they are being taken advantage of, so good for you!!

I frequently have no idea what I'm talking about. Like now.

FIREd as of: March 6th, 2015!

Ting is awesome! Get $25 if you use my referral code: https://z0p1rd31m89.ting.com/

Another Reader

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Re: Write courtesy note to leave broker
« Reply #49 on: July 14, 2017, 06:32:11 PM »
I was hoping Frankies Girl would show up...

Read her story about firing her dad's broker when she inherited his account.  If she can do this, you can too!