What do you think of adding a low% of crypto allocation

[dandarc]

if there is no contractual ownership of a finite piece of art or collectible then yes it falls into the same camp as everything else but one could see how smart contracts could provide a copyright in this space even if not being done today.

Let's think this through. At the end of the day, law is enforced by laws, courts, and—well—law enforcement. Take the example I posted above—where an NFT was stolen. Presumably that's still illegal, and would need to be reversed, right? If there's to be any value in this thing, it should reflect reality, so it would need to be updated to do so (e.g., ownership restored to the legal owner). Therefore, a backdoor for the authority who decides the actual source of truth with respect to ownership must be able to modify the blockchain "record book" on its own, rendering the whole setup pretty silly and redundant.

There's also the "transfer it back or go to jail" option assuming whoever stole the thing can be identified. Pretty sure "gun to head" is how they must have recovered that BTC from the pipeline thing, the alternative being this stuff is not really as secure as advertised.

[onecoolcat]

if there is no contractual ownership of a finite piece of art or collectible then yes it falls into the same camp as everything else but one could see how smart contracts could provide a copyright in this space even if not being done today.

Let's think this through. At the end of the day, law is enforced by laws, courts, and—well—law enforcement. Take the example I posted above—where an NFT was stolen. Presumably that's still illegal, and would need to be reversed, right? If there's to be any value in this thing, it should reflect reality, so it would need to be updated to do so (e.g., ownership restored to the legal owner). Therefore, a backdoor for the authority who decides the actual source of truth with respect to ownership must be able to modify the blockchain "record book" on its own, rendering the whole setup pretty silly and redundant.

As a commercial litigation lawyer that frequently deals with misappropriated goods, I think you are being fanciful if you think stolen goods are returned in court.  Generally we get a judgment and then attempt to pry assets from the other sides cold dead hands.  It never ends with a Final Judgment.  If they don't have the good any longer the odds of collecting on the judgment diminish significantly.  That's reality. 

There is nothing stopping Mr. Ape NFT guy from suing the owner of the wallet that stole his asset.  Whether he will manage to identify the new owner or even collect on a judgment is another matter.  Frankly, there are qualities of the blockchain that make that easier and there are qualities that make it harder.  The fact that the owner, even if he/she is idenfied, probably lives overseas probably makes collection near impossible unless they are dumb enough to send the ownership rights to an exchange that is subject to US Laws (like the Colonial Pipeline dingbats).

[onecoolcat]

if there is no contractual ownership of a finite piece of art or collectible then yes it falls into the same camp as everything else but one could see how smart contracts could provide a copyright in this space even if not being done today.

Let's think this through. At the end of the day, law is enforced by laws, courts, and—well—law enforcement. Take the example I posted above—where an NFT was stolen. Presumably that's still illegal, and would need to be reversed, right? If there's to be any value in this thing, it should reflect reality, so it would need to be updated to do so (e.g., ownership restored to the legal owner). Therefore, a backdoor for the authority who decides the actual source of truth with respect to ownership must be able to modify the blockchain "record book" on its own, rendering the whole setup pretty silly and redundant.

There's also the "transfer it back or go to jail" option assuming whoever stole the thing can be identified. Pretty sure "gun to head" is how they must have recovered that BTC from the pipeline thing, the alternative being this stuff is not really as secure as advertised.

I think the colonial pipeline thing was recovered because they transfered the coins to an exchange that was ordered to turn it over to the US government. 

I could be assuming this though.  That was always what the most logical explanation was.  It's one of the ways the blockchain makes it easier to collect on judgments.  As I said, there are definitely ways the blockchain makes it harder too.

[aceyou]

And totally agree on the jargon.  In 10 years, saying you are going to "buy an NFT" will be as common as saying "let's get an Uber" today.

'An Uber' is a direct replacement for 'a Taxi'.  It's a thing that exists, that serves a real need.  An NFT is not a thing, doesn't exist, and serves no need that anyone has ever been able to explain to me.

Cryptocurrency is an interesting but inherently flawed idea . . . NFTs are straight up lobotomized stupidity.  I have a bridge NFT to sell you.

NFT's can do a wide variety of things.  My guess is that in ten years, no one will go through ticketmaster to buy a concert or sporting event ticket.  Instead, you would buy an NFT as a virtual ticket directly from the venue you want to attend, which will be SUPER easy to do.  At the gate, you will show proof of your NFT at the gate, which will get you entry.  Or, if you can't attend, you would sell the NFT to someone else, and they get your seat.  Middleman fees to ticketmaster = eliminated.  Credit card fees for the seller = eliminated.

I've already done this.  A week ago, there was paid content I wanted access to on the internet.  Instead of entering my credit card information into their website to purchase it, they sold me an NFT as a ticket.  Now, any time I want paid access to that content, I just have to go to the site and demonstrate that I have the NFT.  It's just a better way to accomplish the same thing.

This is one example, but there are many ways NFT's are useful.  If you want to know more, learn.  If you want to call it lobotomized stupidity, that's also an option.  I think the former option will serve you better.

[onecoolcat]

And totally agree on the jargon.  In 10 years, saying you are going to "buy an NFT" will be as common as saying "let's get an Uber" today.

'An Uber' is a direct replacement for 'a Taxi'.  It's a thing that exists, that serves a real need.  An NFT is not a thing, doesn't exist, and serves no need that anyone has ever been able to explain to me.

Cryptocurrency is an interesting but inherently flawed idea . . . NFTs are straight up lobotomized stupidity.  I have a bridge NFT to sell you.

NFT's can do a wide variety of things.  My guess is that in ten years, no one will go through ticketmaster to buy a concert or sporting event ticket.  Instead, you would buy an NFT as a virtual ticket directly from the venue you want to attend, which will be SUPER easy to do.  At the gate, you will show proof of your NFT at the gate, which will get you entry.  Or, if you can't attend, you would sell the NFT to someone else, and they get your seat.  Middleman fees to ticketmaster = eliminated.  Credit card fees for the seller = eliminated.

I've already done this.  A week ago, there was paid content I wanted access to on the internet.  Instead of entering my credit card information into their website to purchase it, they sold me an NFT as a ticket.  Now, any time I want paid access to that content, I just have to go to the site and demonstrate that I have the NFT.  It's just a better way to accomplish the same thing.

This is one example, but there are many ways NFT's are useful.  If you want to know more, learn.  If you want to call it lobotomized stupidity, that's also an option.  I think the former option will serve you better.

I can see problems with NFTs as tickets.  For one, one of the most pervasive problems of concert tickets are scalpers.  Tokenizing tickets will only encourage scalping because it makes tickets more easily transferred.  I feel that many artists will be resistant to it for that reason.

On the other hand, artist and promoters could be incentives to NFT tickets because they can sell direct to consumers and the tickets could become a valuable token(lol)/souvenir (much as it is today but perhaps even more so because they are alot of cool things you can do digitally that you can't do in print like special gifs or thanks from the artist). 

I started this post to critique you but I kind of feel that you sold me on it.

[effigy98]

Probably better to listen to MMM and stay out and have lower overall portfolio returns.

[Juan Ponce de León]

Probably better to listen to MMM and stay out and have lower overall portfolio returns.

LMAO.

[Juan Ponce de León]

@Juan Ponce de León , are there conditions under which you'd sell some Bitcoin to lock in those gains?

Yeah absolutely.  If we get a parabolic move up I'll be looking to de-risk some but mainly from my alt coin positions which I have way too much of.  I also cash out some of my defi yield every week but mainly I use it to buy more crypto.

Sorry if I missed this earlier. If you don't mind my asking, @Juan Ponce de León, what % of your portfolio is in crypto vs conventional financial assets?

Is % the way you allocate to the non-crypto portion, or do you have other criteria instead (5 years' conventional assets, paid off house but the rest is crypto, etc)?

Are you seeking a FIRE target in some conventional way (eg, 25x annual spending) or using other goals for your accumulation strategies?

It's about 60/40 crypto vs stocks.  That was never the plan it's just the way it's worked out.  I don't put any new money into crypto and I try not to pull too much out, I'm basically playing with house money now so I'm happy to let it ride.  I'm not getting ahead of myself in regards to FIRE targets or anything like that.  If it happens, it happens.  If it all crashes to zero I'll diversify into tulip bulbs.

I'm curious about your allocation amongst your cypto assets, do you mind sharing? Here's mine:

VTSAX = 50%
Crypto = 50%

Of the Crypto, here's the current breakdown(it changes daily, because as you know, the price of all these things is terrifically volatile):
Ethereum = 56%
Bitcoin = 34.3%
alt coins = 9.3%

Of the 9.3% that I have in alt coins, here's the ones I have a small position in:
Cardano
Solana
Uniswap
Chainlink
Litecoin
Bitcoin Cash
Enjin
Polkadot
Avalanche
Aave
VeChain

My pf is very defi oriented and honestly not ideal, a lot of my coins are paired in liquidity pool tokens and paying daily yield, which I guess I'm kind of addicted to since that's how I got going in crypto and had my first big wins.  Anyway I've looked at a pf tracker and added a few other things in and I believe my pf exposure is very roughly

BNB ~33%
AVAX ~17%
ETH ~15%
BTC ~15%
CAKE ~10%
SOL ~ 5%

Over represented in BNB due to all the yield farming on Binance Smart chain, CAKE-BNB, ETH-BNB etc.  Looking to fix it in the coming months if we get an ALT season blow up of prices so I can break up and offload some of these farms and get back to a more basic bitcoin/eth dominant pf.  I'll also cashout a chunk of lifestyle tickets if things go well.  Whether I achieve it or not before the market pulls the rug again I don't know haha.

[boarder42]

Probably better to listen to MMM and stay out and have lower overall portfolio returns.

LMAO.

In the not too distant future when this is worth next to nothing y'all will be claiming you got out before that happened and are living like kings. Rather than posting percentages of ownership stakes why not start journals and document your actual transactions.  What do you have to lose?  Someone may read 8t and buy more unicorn farts and drive up the value.  Hell it may even become a unicorn poop.

[Juan Ponce de León]

Probably better to listen to MMM and stay out and have lower overall portfolio returns.

LMAO.

In the not too distant future when this is worth next to nothing y'all will be claiming you got out before that happened and are living like kings. Rather than posting percentages of ownership stakes why not start journals and document your actual transactions.  What do you have to lose?  Someone may read 8t and buy more unicorn farts and drive up the value.  Hell it may even become a unicorn poop.

What?  Start your own journal m8.  I was answering a direct question.

[BicycleB]

My pf is very defi oriented and honestly not ideal, a lot of my coins are paired in liquidity pool tokens and paying daily yield, which I guess I'm kind of addicted to since that's how I got going in crypto and had my first big wins.  Anyway I've looked at a pf tracker and added a few other things in and I believe my pf exposure is very roughly

BNB ~33%
AVAX ~17%
ETH ~15%
BTC ~15%
CAKE ~10%
SOL ~ 5%

Over represented in BNB due to all the yield farming on Binance Smart chain, CAKE-BNB, ETH-BNB etc.  Looking to fix it in the coming months if we get an ALT season blow up of prices so I can break up and offload some of these farms and get back to a more basic bitcoin/eth dominant pf.  I'll also cashout a chunk of lifestyle tickets if things go well.  Whether I achieve it or not before the market pulls the rug again I don't know haha.

Thanks for posting. Good luck on the right season, getting the rebalancing you want, and beating the rug pulls to the punch.

In the not too distant future when this is worth next to nothing y'all will be claiming you got out before that happened and are living like kings. Rather than posting percentages of ownership stakes why not start journals and document your actual transactions.  What do you have to lose?  Someone may read 8t and buy more unicorn farts and drive up the value.  Hell it may even become a unicorn poop.

I don't think Juan Ponce de Leon, for example, is any less likely to post accurate followups than anyone else on the forum who chooses to give partial information - which is most of us. I don't post complete transactions because I figure that even an "anonymous" forum can be hacked and I'd rather make it one step harder for my accounts to be socially engineered. I'd be be delighted to hear followup reports in either the case of a continued successful boom play, or a new plunge in crypto. % plus description of actions taken, reasoning and general results is still a helpful picture. The biggest data gap is from ghosting so any decent followup is helpful, especially if illustrating a new or non-standard  path.

That said, I greatly appreciate the thoughtful fraction who do give complete or otherwise detailed accounts. Obviously they add meat to the forum that it would otherwise lack, and are uniquely respectworthy contributors.

[onecoolcat]

@Juan Ponce de León , are there conditions under which you'd sell some Bitcoin to lock in those gains?

Yeah absolutely.  If we get a parabolic move up I'll be looking to de-risk some but mainly from my alt coin positions which I have way too much of.  I also cash out some of my defi yield every week but mainly I use it to buy more crypto.

Sorry if I missed this earlier. If you don't mind my asking, @Juan Ponce de León, what % of your portfolio is in crypto vs conventional financial assets?

Is % the way you allocate to the non-crypto portion, or do you have other criteria instead (5 years' conventional assets, paid off house but the rest is crypto, etc)?

Are you seeking a FIRE target in some conventional way (eg, 25x annual spending) or using other goals for your accumulation strategies?

It's about 60/40 crypto vs stocks.  That was never the plan it's just the way it's worked out.  I don't put any new money into crypto and I try not to pull too much out, I'm basically playing with house money now so I'm happy to let it ride.  I'm not getting ahead of myself in regards to FIRE targets or anything like that.  If it happens, it happens.  If it all crashes to zero I'll diversify into tulip bulbs.

I'm curious about your allocation amongst your cypto assets, do you mind sharing? Here's mine:

VTSAX = 50%
Crypto = 50%

Of the Crypto, here's the current breakdown(it changes daily, because as you know, the price of all these things is terrifically volatile):
Ethereum = 56%
Bitcoin = 34.3%
alt coins = 9.3%

Of the 9.3% that I have in alt coins, here's the ones I have a small position in:
Cardano
Solana
Uniswap
Chainlink
Litecoin
Bitcoin Cash
Enjin
Polkadot
Avalanche
Aave
VeChain

My pf is very defi oriented and honestly not ideal, a lot of my coins are paired in liquidity pool tokens and paying daily yield, which I guess I'm kind of addicted to since that's how I got going in crypto and had my first big wins.  Anyway I've looked at a pf tracker and added a few other things in and I believe my pf exposure is very roughly

BNB ~33%
AVAX ~17%
ETH ~15%
BTC ~15%
CAKE ~10%
SOL ~ 5%

Over represented in BNB due to all the yield farming on Binance Smart chain, CAKE-BNB, ETH-BNB etc.  Looking to fix it in the coming months if we get an ALT season blow up of prices so I can break up and offload some of these farms and get back to a more basic bitcoin/eth dominant pf.  I'll also cashout a chunk of lifestyle tickets if things go well.  Whether I achieve it or not before the market pulls the rug again I don't know haha.

I'll be frank, I kind of agree with Boarder420.  You'll probably get yourself rekt'd if you are not lucky enough to get your timing down right.  You could end up with 90% losses overall with such large bags full of shitcoins.  I mean that with all due respect.  How confident are you that BNB/CAKE/SOL/AVAX will rebound after the next crash?  Don't get me wrong, all of them could.  But they could very well be the next Neo, NEM, QTUM, ect.  Not all crypto bounces back after a bear market and we will most likely have another bear market in the near future.  Now is the time to sell the shitcoins and take profits and/or get into Bitcoin/Ethereum.  At least you have a good basis to think Bitcoin/Ethereum will rebound after the next crash.

I don't know if you were around before 2018 but a lot of the top shitcoins from 2017 never recovered.  For every ADA there are three EOS'.  I am not saying there is not place in your bags for shitcoins -- I got my own shitcoins -- but lets be real here; they are only good for getting more Bitcoin/Ethereum.

[Juan Ponce de León]

@Juan Ponce de León , are there conditions under which you'd sell some Bitcoin to lock in those gains?

Yeah absolutely.  If we get a parabolic move up I'll be looking to de-risk some but mainly from my alt coin positions which I have way too much of.  I also cash out some of my defi yield every week but mainly I use it to buy more crypto.

Sorry if I missed this earlier. If you don't mind my asking, @Juan Ponce de León, what % of your portfolio is in crypto vs conventional financial assets?

Is % the way you allocate to the non-crypto portion, or do you have other criteria instead (5 years' conventional assets, paid off house but the rest is crypto, etc)?

Are you seeking a FIRE target in some conventional way (eg, 25x annual spending) or using other goals for your accumulation strategies?

It's about 60/40 crypto vs stocks.  That was never the plan it's just the way it's worked out.  I don't put any new money into crypto and I try not to pull too much out, I'm basically playing with house money now so I'm happy to let it ride.  I'm not getting ahead of myself in regards to FIRE targets or anything like that.  If it happens, it happens.  If it all crashes to zero I'll diversify into tulip bulbs.

I'm curious about your allocation amongst your cypto assets, do you mind sharing? Here's mine:

VTSAX = 50%
Crypto = 50%

Of the Crypto, here's the current breakdown(it changes daily, because as you know, the price of all these things is terrifically volatile):
Ethereum = 56%
Bitcoin = 34.3%
alt coins = 9.3%

Of the 9.3% that I have in alt coins, here's the ones I have a small position in:
Cardano
Solana
Uniswap
Chainlink
Litecoin
Bitcoin Cash
Enjin
Polkadot
Avalanche
Aave
VeChain

My pf is very defi oriented and honestly not ideal, a lot of my coins are paired in liquidity pool tokens and paying daily yield, which I guess I'm kind of addicted to since that's how I got going in crypto and had my first big wins.  Anyway I've looked at a pf tracker and added a few other things in and I believe my pf exposure is very roughly

BNB ~33%
AVAX ~17%
ETH ~15%
BTC ~15%
CAKE ~10%
SOL ~ 5%

Over represented in BNB due to all the yield farming on Binance Smart chain, CAKE-BNB, ETH-BNB etc.  Looking to fix it in the coming months if we get an ALT season blow up of prices so I can break up and offload some of these farms and get back to a more basic bitcoin/eth dominant pf.  I'll also cashout a chunk of lifestyle tickets if things go well.  Whether I achieve it or not before the market pulls the rug again I don't know haha.

I'll be frank, I kind of agree with Boarder420.  You'll probably get yourself rekt'd if you are not lucky enough to get your timing down right.  You could end up with 90% losses overall with such large bags full of shitcoins.  I mean that with all due respect.  How confident are you that BNB/CAKE/SOL/AVAX will rebound after the next crash?  Don't get me wrong, all of them could.  But they could very well be the next Neo, NEM, QTUM, ect.  Not all crypto bounces back after a bear market and we will most likely have another bear market in the near future.  Now is the time to sell the shitcoins and take profits and/or get into Bitcoin/Ethereum.  At least you have a good basis to think Bitcoin/Ethereum will rebound after the next crash.

I don't know if you were around before 2018 but a lot of the top shitcoins from 2017 never recovered.  For every ADA there are three EOS'.  I am not saying there is not place in your bags for shitcoins -- I got my own shitcoins -- but lets be real here; they are only good for getting more Bitcoin/Ethereum.

It depends on your definition of rekt I guess.  I never said my strategy was without risk, but without those risks I wouldn't even have the PF I have now.  In January I had ~US$8k in crypto and now it's in the hundreds of thousands.  I've also been paying my CC in full with it each month for awhile now so I'm firmly in freeroll territory with this money.  Yet if you asked Boarder42 he'd probably tell you I'm some kind of crazy idiot sniffing unicorn farts?  I'm not sure what he was really on about.

Also I think your definition of shitcoin is quite a bit loser than mine.  BNB is #3 coin by market cap and native coin of the largest exchange, it's sitting at $100B by market cap.  Sol is #4, AVAX is #11.  You have to weight up the risk vs the reward.  CAKE I guess I just have some kind of misguided loyalty to the project.  First bought CAKE in Feb for $2 and BNB for $44, i think cake-bnb was paying 200% APR at the time, recompounded the yield and built a PF out of CAKE.  In that first run cake went to $45 and BNB went to nearly $700.  I sell CAKE every day, morning and night if I remember.  I've sold more cake than a cake shop LMAO.   It's still paying a decent yield.

One thing I will say about the defi yield is that it makes me sleep better at night knowing I have a few hundred dollars a day coming in that I can sell and not feel like I'm selling a dip or about to miss a pump etc.  For me it's guilt-free selling that is income and doesn't equal a capital gains event.  I can pay off my CC or buy some more bitcoin/eth/stock ETFs or some other crypto project.  For me the yield was a gamechanger, just owning a set amount of coins that doesn't change seems stagnant in comparison, like owning stocks.  Having said that, I learned some lessons in May when we had the large correction and if alt coins blow off again like that I am going to try and derisk some to the best of my judgement.  We don't seem to be there yet though.  Good luck with your own holdings.

[onecoolcat]

@Juan Ponce de León , are there conditions under which you'd sell some Bitcoin to lock in those gains?

Yeah absolutely.  If we get a parabolic move up I'll be looking to de-risk some but mainly from my alt coin positions which I have way too much of.  I also cash out some of my defi yield every week but mainly I use it to buy more crypto.

Sorry if I missed this earlier. If you don't mind my asking, @Juan Ponce de León, what % of your portfolio is in crypto vs conventional financial assets?

Is % the way you allocate to the non-crypto portion, or do you have other criteria instead (5 years' conventional assets, paid off house but the rest is crypto, etc)?

Are you seeking a FIRE target in some conventional way (eg, 25x annual spending) or using other goals for your accumulation strategies?

It's about 60/40 crypto vs stocks.  That was never the plan it's just the way it's worked out.  I don't put any new money into crypto and I try not to pull too much out, I'm basically playing with house money now so I'm happy to let it ride.  I'm not getting ahead of myself in regards to FIRE targets or anything like that.  If it happens, it happens.  If it all crashes to zero I'll diversify into tulip bulbs.

I'm curious about your allocation amongst your cypto assets, do you mind sharing? Here's mine:

VTSAX = 50%
Crypto = 50%

Of the Crypto, here's the current breakdown(it changes daily, because as you know, the price of all these things is terrifically volatile):
Ethereum = 56%
Bitcoin = 34.3%
alt coins = 9.3%

Of the 9.3% that I have in alt coins, here's the ones I have a small position in:
Cardano
Solana
Uniswap
Chainlink
Litecoin
Bitcoin Cash
Enjin
Polkadot
Avalanche
Aave
VeChain

My pf is very defi oriented and honestly not ideal, a lot of my coins are paired in liquidity pool tokens and paying daily yield, which I guess I'm kind of addicted to since that's how I got going in crypto and had my first big wins.  Anyway I've looked at a pf tracker and added a few other things in and I believe my pf exposure is very roughly

BNB ~33%
AVAX ~17%
ETH ~15%
BTC ~15%
CAKE ~10%
SOL ~ 5%

Over represented in BNB due to all the yield farming on Binance Smart chain, CAKE-BNB, ETH-BNB etc.  Looking to fix it in the coming months if we get an ALT season blow up of prices so I can break up and offload some of these farms and get back to a more basic bitcoin/eth dominant pf.  I'll also cashout a chunk of lifestyle tickets if things go well.  Whether I achieve it or not before the market pulls the rug again I don't know haha.

I'll be frank, I kind of agree with Boarder420.  You'll probably get yourself rekt'd if you are not lucky enough to get your timing down right.  You could end up with 90% losses overall with such large bags full of shitcoins.  I mean that with all due respect.  How confident are you that BNB/CAKE/SOL/AVAX will rebound after the next crash?  Don't get me wrong, all of them could.  But they could very well be the next Neo, NEM, QTUM, ect.  Not all crypto bounces back after a bear market and we will most likely have another bear market in the near future.  Now is the time to sell the shitcoins and take profits and/or get into Bitcoin/Ethereum.  At least you have a good basis to think Bitcoin/Ethereum will rebound after the next crash.

I don't know if you were around before 2018 but a lot of the top shitcoins from 2017 never recovered.  For every ADA there are three EOS'.  I am not saying there is not place in your bags for shitcoins -- I got my own shitcoins -- but lets be real here; they are only good for getting more Bitcoin/Ethereum.

It depends on your definition of rekt I guess.  I never said my strategy was without risk, but without those risks I wouldn't even have the PF I have now.  In January I had ~US$8k in crypto and now it's in the hundreds of thousands.  I've also been paying my CC in full with it each month for awhile now so I'm firmly in freeroll territory with this money.  Yet if you asked Boarder42 he'd probably tell you I'm some kind of crazy idiot sniffing unicorn farts?  I'm not sure what he was really on about.

Also I think your definition of shitcoin is quite a bit loser than mine.  BNB is #3 coin by market cap and native coin of the largest exchange, it's sitting at $100B by market cap.  Sol is #4, AVAX is #11.  You have to weight up the risk vs the reward.  CAKE I guess I just have some kind of misguided loyalty to the project.  First bought CAKE in Feb for $2 and BNB for $44, i think cake-bnb was paying 200% APR at the time, recompounded the yield and built a PF out of CAKE.  In that first run cake went to $45 and BNB went to nearly $700.  I sell CAKE every day, morning and night if I remember.  I've sold more cake than a cake shop LMAO.   It's still paying a decent yield.

One thing I will say about the defi yield is that it makes me sleep better at night knowing I have a few hundred dollars a day coming in that I can sell and not feel like I'm selling a dip or about to miss a pump etc.  For me it's guilt-free selling that is income and doesn't equal a capital gains event.  I can pay off my CC or buy some more bitcoin/eth/stock ETFs or some other crypto project.  For me the yield was a gamechanger, just owning a set amount of coins that doesn't change seems stagnant in comparison, like owning stocks.  Having said that, I learned some lessons in May when we had the large correction and if alt coins blow off again like that I am going to try and derisk some to the best of my judgement.  We don't seem to be there yet though.  Good luck with your own holdings.

I jokingly call everything that isn't Bitcoin or Ethereum is a shitcoin.  That includes ADA which is 10% of my crypto portfolio, lol.

The May correction was nothing.  All these alts, including BNB and ADA, will dump 80-99% from wherever their high is. 

However, I am particularly bearish on BNB because its just a centralized Ethereum clone.  It's propped up by two things: (1) Binance support and (2) high ethereum gas fees.  If either of those conditions change (one is inevitable sometime in the future) then I think all the appeal about BNB fades. 

[Juan Ponce de León]

@Juan Ponce de León , are there conditions under which you'd sell some Bitcoin to lock in those gains?

Yeah absolutely.  If we get a parabolic move up I'll be looking to de-risk some but mainly from my alt coin positions which I have way too much of.  I also cash out some of my defi yield every week but mainly I use it to buy more crypto.

Sorry if I missed this earlier. If you don't mind my asking, @Juan Ponce de León, what % of your portfolio is in crypto vs conventional financial assets?

Is % the way you allocate to the non-crypto portion, or do you have other criteria instead (5 years' conventional assets, paid off house but the rest is crypto, etc)?

Are you seeking a FIRE target in some conventional way (eg, 25x annual spending) or using other goals for your accumulation strategies?

It's about 60/40 crypto vs stocks.  That was never the plan it's just the way it's worked out.  I don't put any new money into crypto and I try not to pull too much out, I'm basically playing with house money now so I'm happy to let it ride.  I'm not getting ahead of myself in regards to FIRE targets or anything like that.  If it happens, it happens.  If it all crashes to zero I'll diversify into tulip bulbs.

I'm curious about your allocation amongst your cypto assets, do you mind sharing? Here's mine:

VTSAX = 50%
Crypto = 50%

Of the Crypto, here's the current breakdown(it changes daily, because as you know, the price of all these things is terrifically volatile):
Ethereum = 56%
Bitcoin = 34.3%
alt coins = 9.3%

Of the 9.3% that I have in alt coins, here's the ones I have a small position in:
Cardano
Solana
Uniswap
Chainlink
Litecoin
Bitcoin Cash
Enjin
Polkadot
Avalanche
Aave
VeChain

My pf is very defi oriented and honestly not ideal, a lot of my coins are paired in liquidity pool tokens and paying daily yield, which I guess I'm kind of addicted to since that's how I got going in crypto and had my first big wins.  Anyway I've looked at a pf tracker and added a few other things in and I believe my pf exposure is very roughly

BNB ~33%
AVAX ~17%
ETH ~15%
BTC ~15%
CAKE ~10%
SOL ~ 5%

Over represented in BNB due to all the yield farming on Binance Smart chain, CAKE-BNB, ETH-BNB etc.  Looking to fix it in the coming months if we get an ALT season blow up of prices so I can break up and offload some of these farms and get back to a more basic bitcoin/eth dominant pf.  I'll also cashout a chunk of lifestyle tickets if things go well.  Whether I achieve it or not before the market pulls the rug again I don't know haha.

I'll be frank, I kind of agree with Boarder420.  You'll probably get yourself rekt'd if you are not lucky enough to get your timing down right.  You could end up with 90% losses overall with such large bags full of shitcoins.  I mean that with all due respect.  How confident are you that BNB/CAKE/SOL/AVAX will rebound after the next crash?  Don't get me wrong, all of them could.  But they could very well be the next Neo, NEM, QTUM, ect.  Not all crypto bounces back after a bear market and we will most likely have another bear market in the near future.  Now is the time to sell the shitcoins and take profits and/or get into Bitcoin/Ethereum.  At least you have a good basis to think Bitcoin/Ethereum will rebound after the next crash.

I don't know if you were around before 2018 but a lot of the top shitcoins from 2017 never recovered.  For every ADA there are three EOS'.  I am not saying there is not place in your bags for shitcoins -- I got my own shitcoins -- but lets be real here; they are only good for getting more Bitcoin/Ethereum.

It depends on your definition of rekt I guess.  I never said my strategy was without risk, but without those risks I wouldn't even have the PF I have now.  In January I had ~US$8k in crypto and now it's in the hundreds of thousands.  I've also been paying my CC in full with it each month for awhile now so I'm firmly in freeroll territory with this money.  Yet if you asked Boarder42 he'd probably tell you I'm some kind of crazy idiot sniffing unicorn farts?  I'm not sure what he was really on about.

Also I think your definition of shitcoin is quite a bit loser than mine.  BNB is #3 coin by market cap and native coin of the largest exchange, it's sitting at $100B by market cap.  Sol is #4, AVAX is #11.  You have to weight up the risk vs the reward.  CAKE I guess I just have some kind of misguided loyalty to the project.  First bought CAKE in Feb for $2 and BNB for $44, i think cake-bnb was paying 200% APR at the time, recompounded the yield and built a PF out of CAKE.  In that first run cake went to $45 and BNB went to nearly $700.  I sell CAKE every day, morning and night if I remember.  I've sold more cake than a cake shop LMAO.   It's still paying a decent yield.

One thing I will say about the defi yield is that it makes me sleep better at night knowing I have a few hundred dollars a day coming in that I can sell and not feel like I'm selling a dip or about to miss a pump etc.  For me it's guilt-free selling that is income and doesn't equal a capital gains event.  I can pay off my CC or buy some more bitcoin/eth/stock ETFs or some other crypto project.  For me the yield was a gamechanger, just owning a set amount of coins that doesn't change seems stagnant in comparison, like owning stocks.  Having said that, I learned some lessons in May when we had the large correction and if alt coins blow off again like that I am going to try and derisk some to the best of my judgement.  We don't seem to be there yet though.  Good luck with your own holdings.

Everything that isn't Bitcoin or Ethereum is a shitcoin.  That includes ADA which is 10% of my crypto portfolio, lol.

The May correction was nothing.  All these alts, including BNB and ADA, will dump 80-99% from wherever their high is.  May was what, 50%?

Yeah I think BNB was ~70%, I have no doubt you're right.  BTC itself dumps ~80-85% in the bear market.

[onecoolcat]

@Juan Ponce de León , are there conditions under which you'd sell some Bitcoin to lock in those gains?

Yeah absolutely.  If we get a parabolic move up I'll be looking to de-risk some but mainly from my alt coin positions which I have way too much of.  I also cash out some of my defi yield every week but mainly I use it to buy more crypto.

Sorry if I missed this earlier. If you don't mind my asking, @Juan Ponce de León, what % of your portfolio is in crypto vs conventional financial assets?

Is % the way you allocate to the non-crypto portion, or do you have other criteria instead (5 years' conventional assets, paid off house but the rest is crypto, etc)?

Are you seeking a FIRE target in some conventional way (eg, 25x annual spending) or using other goals for your accumulation strategies?

It's about 60/40 crypto vs stocks.  That was never the plan it's just the way it's worked out.  I don't put any new money into crypto and I try not to pull too much out, I'm basically playing with house money now so I'm happy to let it ride.  I'm not getting ahead of myself in regards to FIRE targets or anything like that.  If it happens, it happens.  If it all crashes to zero I'll diversify into tulip bulbs.

I'm curious about your allocation amongst your cypto assets, do you mind sharing? Here's mine:

VTSAX = 50%
Crypto = 50%

Of the Crypto, here's the current breakdown(it changes daily, because as you know, the price of all these things is terrifically volatile):
Ethereum = 56%
Bitcoin = 34.3%
alt coins = 9.3%

Of the 9.3% that I have in alt coins, here's the ones I have a small position in:
Cardano
Solana
Uniswap
Chainlink
Litecoin
Bitcoin Cash
Enjin
Polkadot
Avalanche
Aave
VeChain

My pf is very defi oriented and honestly not ideal, a lot of my coins are paired in liquidity pool tokens and paying daily yield, which I guess I'm kind of addicted to since that's how I got going in crypto and had my first big wins.  Anyway I've looked at a pf tracker and added a few other things in and I believe my pf exposure is very roughly

BNB ~33%
AVAX ~17%
ETH ~15%
BTC ~15%
CAKE ~10%
SOL ~ 5%

Over represented in BNB due to all the yield farming on Binance Smart chain, CAKE-BNB, ETH-BNB etc.  Looking to fix it in the coming months if we get an ALT season blow up of prices so I can break up and offload some of these farms and get back to a more basic bitcoin/eth dominant pf.  I'll also cashout a chunk of lifestyle tickets if things go well.  Whether I achieve it or not before the market pulls the rug again I don't know haha.

I'll be frank, I kind of agree with Boarder420.  You'll probably get yourself rekt'd if you are not lucky enough to get your timing down right.  You could end up with 90% losses overall with such large bags full of shitcoins.  I mean that with all due respect.  How confident are you that BNB/CAKE/SOL/AVAX will rebound after the next crash?  Don't get me wrong, all of them could.  But they could very well be the next Neo, NEM, QTUM, ect.  Not all crypto bounces back after a bear market and we will most likely have another bear market in the near future.  Now is the time to sell the shitcoins and take profits and/or get into Bitcoin/Ethereum.  At least you have a good basis to think Bitcoin/Ethereum will rebound after the next crash.

I don't know if you were around before 2018 but a lot of the top shitcoins from 2017 never recovered.  For every ADA there are three EOS'.  I am not saying there is not place in your bags for shitcoins -- I got my own shitcoins -- but lets be real here; they are only good for getting more Bitcoin/Ethereum.

It depends on your definition of rekt I guess.  I never said my strategy was without risk, but without those risks I wouldn't even have the PF I have now.  In January I had ~US$8k in crypto and now it's in the hundreds of thousands.  I've also been paying my CC in full with it each month for awhile now so I'm firmly in freeroll territory with this money.  Yet if you asked Boarder42 he'd probably tell you I'm some kind of crazy idiot sniffing unicorn farts?  I'm not sure what he was really on about.

Also I think your definition of shitcoin is quite a bit loser than mine.  BNB is #3 coin by market cap and native coin of the largest exchange, it's sitting at $100B by market cap.  Sol is #4, AVAX is #11.  You have to weight up the risk vs the reward.  CAKE I guess I just have some kind of misguided loyalty to the project.  First bought CAKE in Feb for $2 and BNB for $44, i think cake-bnb was paying 200% APR at the time, recompounded the yield and built a PF out of CAKE.  In that first run cake went to $45 and BNB went to nearly $700.  I sell CAKE every day, morning and night if I remember.  I've sold more cake than a cake shop LMAO.   It's still paying a decent yield.

One thing I will say about the defi yield is that it makes me sleep better at night knowing I have a few hundred dollars a day coming in that I can sell and not feel like I'm selling a dip or about to miss a pump etc.  For me it's guilt-free selling that is income and doesn't equal a capital gains event.  I can pay off my CC or buy some more bitcoin/eth/stock ETFs or some other crypto project.  For me the yield was a gamechanger, just owning a set amount of coins that doesn't change seems stagnant in comparison, like owning stocks.  Having said that, I learned some lessons in May when we had the large correction and if alt coins blow off again like that I am going to try and derisk some to the best of my judgement.  We don't seem to be there yet though.  Good luck with your own holdings.

Everything that isn't Bitcoin or Ethereum is a shitcoin.  That includes ADA which is 10% of my crypto portfolio, lol.

The May correction was nothing.  All these alts, including BNB and ADA, will dump 80-99% from wherever their high is.  May was what, 50%?

Yeah I think BNB was ~70%, I have no doubt you're right.  BTC itself dumps ~80-85% in the bear market.

I edited my comment above.

Is your money tied up in "liquidity pools"?  Isn't it fairly common for these things to get hacked or or drained by insiders who then disappear?  It seems they have a significant amount of additional risk but I guess that's why the rewards are so -- well -- rewarding.

[Juan Ponce de León]

@Juan Ponce de León , are there conditions under which you'd sell some Bitcoin to lock in those gains?

Yeah absolutely.  If we get a parabolic move up I'll be looking to de-risk some but mainly from my alt coin positions which I have way too much of.  I also cash out some of my defi yield every week but mainly I use it to buy more crypto.

Sorry if I missed this earlier. If you don't mind my asking, @Juan Ponce de León, what % of your portfolio is in crypto vs conventional financial assets?

Is % the way you allocate to the non-crypto portion, or do you have other criteria instead (5 years' conventional assets, paid off house but the rest is crypto, etc)?

Are you seeking a FIRE target in some conventional way (eg, 25x annual spending) or using other goals for your accumulation strategies?

It's about 60/40 crypto vs stocks.  That was never the plan it's just the way it's worked out.  I don't put any new money into crypto and I try not to pull too much out, I'm basically playing with house money now so I'm happy to let it ride.  I'm not getting ahead of myself in regards to FIRE targets or anything like that.  If it happens, it happens.  If it all crashes to zero I'll diversify into tulip bulbs.

I'm curious about your allocation amongst your cypto assets, do you mind sharing? Here's mine:

VTSAX = 50%
Crypto = 50%

Of the Crypto, here's the current breakdown(it changes daily, because as you know, the price of all these things is terrifically volatile):
Ethereum = 56%
Bitcoin = 34.3%
alt coins = 9.3%

Of the 9.3% that I have in alt coins, here's the ones I have a small position in:
Cardano
Solana
Uniswap
Chainlink
Litecoin
Bitcoin Cash
Enjin
Polkadot
Avalanche
Aave
VeChain

My pf is very defi oriented and honestly not ideal, a lot of my coins are paired in liquidity pool tokens and paying daily yield, which I guess I'm kind of addicted to since that's how I got going in crypto and had my first big wins.  Anyway I've looked at a pf tracker and added a few other things in and I believe my pf exposure is very roughly

BNB ~33%
AVAX ~17%
ETH ~15%
BTC ~15%
CAKE ~10%
SOL ~ 5%

Over represented in BNB due to all the yield farming on Binance Smart chain, CAKE-BNB, ETH-BNB etc.  Looking to fix it in the coming months if we get an ALT season blow up of prices so I can break up and offload some of these farms and get back to a more basic bitcoin/eth dominant pf.  I'll also cashout a chunk of lifestyle tickets if things go well.  Whether I achieve it or not before the market pulls the rug again I don't know haha.

I'll be frank, I kind of agree with Boarder420.  You'll probably get yourself rekt'd if you are not lucky enough to get your timing down right.  You could end up with 90% losses overall with such large bags full of shitcoins.  I mean that with all due respect.  How confident are you that BNB/CAKE/SOL/AVAX will rebound after the next crash?  Don't get me wrong, all of them could.  But they could very well be the next Neo, NEM, QTUM, ect.  Not all crypto bounces back after a bear market and we will most likely have another bear market in the near future.  Now is the time to sell the shitcoins and take profits and/or get into Bitcoin/Ethereum.  At least you have a good basis to think Bitcoin/Ethereum will rebound after the next crash.

I don't know if you were around before 2018 but a lot of the top shitcoins from 2017 never recovered.  For every ADA there are three EOS'.  I am not saying there is not place in your bags for shitcoins -- I got my own shitcoins -- but lets be real here; they are only good for getting more Bitcoin/Ethereum.

It depends on your definition of rekt I guess.  I never said my strategy was without risk, but without those risks I wouldn't even have the PF I have now.  In January I had ~US$8k in crypto and now it's in the hundreds of thousands.  I've also been paying my CC in full with it each month for awhile now so I'm firmly in freeroll territory with this money.  Yet if you asked Boarder42 he'd probably tell you I'm some kind of crazy idiot sniffing unicorn farts?  I'm not sure what he was really on about.

Also I think your definition of shitcoin is quite a bit loser than mine.  BNB is #3 coin by market cap and native coin of the largest exchange, it's sitting at $100B by market cap.  Sol is #4, AVAX is #11.  You have to weight up the risk vs the reward.  CAKE I guess I just have some kind of misguided loyalty to the project.  First bought CAKE in Feb for $2 and BNB for $44, i think cake-bnb was paying 200% APR at the time, recompounded the yield and built a PF out of CAKE.  In that first run cake went to $45 and BNB went to nearly $700.  I sell CAKE every day, morning and night if I remember.  I've sold more cake than a cake shop LMAO.   It's still paying a decent yield.

One thing I will say about the defi yield is that it makes me sleep better at night knowing I have a few hundred dollars a day coming in that I can sell and not feel like I'm selling a dip or about to miss a pump etc.  For me it's guilt-free selling that is income and doesn't equal a capital gains event.  I can pay off my CC or buy some more bitcoin/eth/stock ETFs or some other crypto project.  For me the yield was a gamechanger, just owning a set amount of coins that doesn't change seems stagnant in comparison, like owning stocks.  Having said that, I learned some lessons in May when we had the large correction and if alt coins blow off again like that I am going to try and derisk some to the best of my judgement.  We don't seem to be there yet though.  Good luck with your own holdings.

Everything that isn't Bitcoin or Ethereum is a shitcoin.  That includes ADA which is 10% of my crypto portfolio, lol.

The May correction was nothing.  All these alts, including BNB and ADA, will dump 80-99% from wherever their high is.  May was what, 50%?

Yeah I think BNB was ~70%, I have no doubt you're right.  BTC itself dumps ~80-85% in the bear market.

I edited my comment above.

Is your money tied up in "liquidity pools"?  Isn't it fairly common for these things to get hacked or or drained by insiders who then disappear?  It seems they have a significant amount of additional risk but I guess that's why the rewards are so -- well -- rewarding.

Yeah it's not without risk that's for sure.  Fortunately none of the projects I've ever been involved with have been affected.  I guess the longer they've been running the less likely there is an exploit in the contracts waiting to be exploited.  Pancakeswap has over 13 billion$ staked on it.  If anyone hacks or rugs it, good for them honestly, that will be the heist of the century.

[aceyou]

BNB ~33%
AVAX ~17%
ETH ~15%
BTC ~15%
CAKE ~10%
SOL ~ 5%

Over represented in BNB due to all the yield farming on Binance Smart chain, CAKE-BNB, ETH-BNB etc.  Looking to fix it in the coming months if we get an ALT season blow up of prices so I can break up and offload some of these farms and get back to a more basic bitcoin/eth dominant pf.  I'll also cashout a chunk of lifestyle tickets if things go well.  Whether I achieve it or not before the market pulls the rug again I don't know haha.

Cool.  Your portfolio has more upside than mine for sure.  And I'd feel confident that Avax, Eth, Sol, and BTC are all on solid ground enough to survive a down cycle.  I don't know enough about Cake and BNB to comment.  Good luck to you. 

[aceyou]

Probably better to listen to MMM and stay out and have lower overall portfolio returns.

LMAO.

In the not too distant future when this is worth next to nothing y'all will be claiming you got out before that happened and are living like kings. Rather than posting percentages of ownership stakes why not start journals and document your actual transactions.  What do you have to lose?  Someone may read 8t and buy more unicorn farts and drive up the value.  Hell it may even become a unicorn poop.

Alright then. Not going to start a new thread at the moment, but I may soon.  Here's the numbers breakdown beyond just my current percentages:

Notes/Dislaimers: 

• On August 1 there was 695k in my retirement stache.  100% VTSAX
• I'm unable to directly buy crypto from my retirement stache, but I do have access to Grayscale Trust products, so when I say I'm buying Eth or BTC, what I really mean is I'm buying their trusts.  It closely, but does not perfectly match the growth of these coins.
   

August Details:

• August 2 - I bought 100k of Crypto...50k Bitcoin Trust (GBTC) and 50k Ethereum Trust (ETHE)
  
• August 20 - I bought 33k more of Ethereum Trust (ETHE)

[/li]
[/list]

August Month End Totals:
      Stache Total: 731k
      Crypto total: 159k
      VTSAX total: 572k

September Month End Totals: No new trades.
      Stache Total: 714k
      Crypto total: 147k
      VTSAX total: 567k

October Details:

• Sold Bitcoin Trust and bout extra ETHE, as well as Grayscale Large Cap (GDLC)
• Purpose of owning GDLC is that it gives me exposure to Bitcoin, Ethereum, Carsano, Solana, Uniswap, Chainlink, Litecoin, and Bitcoin Cash

[li]Additionally, I transferred 180k more from VTSAX into ETHE and GDLC[/li]
[li]Finally, I transferred unneeded cash from checking and bought 3k each of the following: Enjin, Polkadot, Avalanche, Aave, Chainlink, VeChain, as well as 3k of Ethereum[/li][/list]

October Month End Totals:
     Stache Total: 770k plus 20k in non-retirement account
      Crypto total: 395k
      VTSAX total: 395k

      Breakdown:
           ETHE - 155k
           GDLC - 217k
           Enjin - 3k
           Polkadot 3k
           Avalanche 3k
           Aave 3k
           Chainlink 3k
           VeChain 3k
           Ethereum 3k

[Metalcat]

And totally agree on the jargon.  In 10 years, saying you are going to "buy an NFT" will be as common as saying "let's get an Uber" today.

'An Uber' is a direct replacement for 'a Taxi'.  It's a thing that exists, that serves a real need.  An NFT is not a thing, doesn't exist, and serves no need that anyone has ever been able to explain to me.

Cryptocurrency is an interesting but inherently flawed idea . . . NFTs are straight up lobotomized stupidity.  I have a bridge NFT to sell you.

NFT's can do a wide variety of things.  My guess is that in ten years, no one will go through ticketmaster to buy a concert or sporting event ticket.  Instead, you would buy an NFT as a virtual ticket directly from the venue you want to attend, which will be SUPER easy to do.  At the gate, you will show proof of your NFT at the gate, which will get you entry.  Or, if you can't attend, you would sell the NFT to someone else, and they get your seat.  Middleman fees to ticketmaster = eliminated.  Credit card fees for the seller = eliminated.

I've already done this.  A week ago, there was paid content I wanted access to on the internet.  Instead of entering my credit card information into their website to purchase it, they sold me an NFT as a ticket.  Now, any time I want paid access to that content, I just have to go to the site and demonstrate that I have the NFT.  It's just a better way to accomplish the same thing.

This is one example, but there are many ways NFT's are useful.  If you want to know more, learn.  If you want to call it lobotomized stupidity, that's also an option.  I think the former option will serve you better.

Okay, but this example seems pretty flawed to me because services like Ticketmaster don't charge fees because there's a need for that because of the currency system. They charge fees because they can. This is a basic middle-man business model.

It's not like venues can't already just sell tickets directly.
Almost every venue in my city has an option to buy tickets directly from the venue for no additional processing fee.

Or am I missing something?

[MustacheAndaHalf]

According to coin market cap, the top 3 cryptos are BTC, ETH and BNB.
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BNB-USD/

I'm missing something about Bitcoin Cash (BNB)... you pay transaction fees with it?  And so it's gone from $42 to $600 this year because of that?  I'm missing something.

[the_gastropod]

Okay, but this example seems pretty flawed to me because services like Ticketmaster don't charge fees because there's a need for that because of the currency system. They charge fees because they can. This is a basic middle-man business model.

It's not like venues can't already just sell tickets directly.
Almost every venue in my city has an option to buy tickets directly from the venue for no additional processing fee.

Or am I missing something?

Eeeeexactly. This is standard crypto solutionism. The proponents are as ignorant as they are confident about the problems they proclaim crypto solves. Ticketing isn't a particularly complicated technological problem area. A handful of barcode scanners, and a Microsoft Access Database running on a 1997 Compaq Presario inside is plenty sophistication to manage ticketing. Crypto adds nothing.

The reason Ticketmaster is so "expensive" is because it's by design. Musical acts, for example, have fans they want to keep in their good graces. By having cheap-ish face-value ticket costs, and lots of silly-looking fees by the ticket-provider (e.g., Ticketmaster), fans remain happy with the musical performers, and annoyed by bad ol' Ticketmaster. Reality, the musical performers receive a large chunk of this fee revenue, to subsidize otherwise "cheap" face-values of tickets. Promoters, tour groups, and the venue also receive chunks of these fees. Ticketmaster, too, does take a small portion, and perhaps most importantly, takes the brunt of negativity from customer paying such silly fees.

Moving to an NFT is exclusively worse for all of the parties involved and it solves precisely nothing.

[aceyou]

The proponents are as ignorant as they are confident about the problems they proclaim crypto solves.

My understanding is that a rule of this site is that you can call out ideas, but not attack peoples character. 

Regardless of what you think of me and people who share my views, we are all human beings, and your statement is a character attack.  Do better. 

[talltexan]

So I started a crypto currency purchase journal over in the journal section. I list my positions in six coins, market value totaling about $3,500. As I make trades, I'll post them there as well.

[dandarc]

The proponents are as ignorant as they are confident about the problems they proclaim crypto solves.

My understanding is that a rule of this site is that you can call out ideas, but not attack peoples character. 

Regardless of what you think of me and people who share my views, we are all human beings, and your statement is a character attack.  Do better.

This doesn't break the rules - is attacking an idea (crypto solves a problem!) and definitely not a person, particularly in context of the entire post. And pot meet kettle - you cut all but one sentence of a well-written post specifically to attack an individual forum member with your post. Do Better.

[onecoolcat]

The proponents are as ignorant as they are confident about the problems they proclaim crypto solves.

My understanding is that a rule of this site is that you can call out ideas, but not attack peoples character. 

Regardless of what you think of me and people who share my views, we are all human beings, and your statement is a character attack.  Do better.

This doesn't break the rules - is attacking an idea (crypto solves a problem!) and definitely not a person, particularly in context of the entire post. And pot meet kettle - you cut all but one sentence of a well-written post specifically to attack an individual forum member with your post. Do Better.

Gastropod has been attacking people throughout these forums for a long time and it's not limited to this crypto thread.  He is very rigid in his beliefs and unwilling to engage like an adult.  Look at his post history from everything involving a vegan diet, crypto, covid, the environment, politics, ect -- it's all him attacking people.  Alot of it comes off as insecurities as well because he constantly talks down "macho personalities" of folks he doesn't like but he's always dehumanizing people.  I appreciate a little jab to the ribs here and there, it's all in good nature, but gastropod's slights come from a really negative place.

[Rosy]

@Juan Ponce de León , are there conditions under which you'd sell some Bitcoin to lock in those gains?

Yeah absolutely.  If we get a parabolic move up I'll be looking to de-risk some but mainly from my alt coin positions which I have way too much of.  I also cash out some of my defi yield every week but mainly I use it to buy more crypto.

Sorry if I missed this earlier. If you don't mind my asking, @Juan Ponce de León, what % of your portfolio is in crypto vs conventional financial assets?

Is % the way you allocate to the non-crypto portion, or do you have other criteria instead (5 years' conventional assets, paid off house but the rest is crypto, etc)?

Are you seeking a FIRE target in some conventional way (eg, 25x annual spending) or using other goals for your accumulation strategies?

It's about 60/40 crypto vs stocks.  That was never the plan it's just the way it's worked out.  I don't put any new money into crypto and I try not to pull too much out, I'm basically playing with house money now so I'm happy to let it ride.  I'm not getting ahead of myself in regards to FIRE targets or anything like that.  If it happens, it happens.  If it all crashes to zero I'll diversify into tulip bulbs.

I'm curious about your allocation amongst your cypto assets, do you mind sharing? Here's mine:

VTSAX = 50%
Crypto = 50%

Of the Crypto, here's the current breakdown(it changes daily, because as you know, the price of all these things is terrifically volatile):
Ethereum = 56%
Bitcoin = 34.3%
alt coins = 9.3%

Of the 9.3% that I have in alt coins, here's the ones I have a small position in:
Cardano
Solana
Uniswap
Chainlink
Litecoin
Bitcoin Cash
Enjin
Polkadot
Avalanche
Aave
VeChain

My pf is very defi oriented and honestly not ideal, a lot of my coins are paired in liquidity pool tokens and paying daily yield, which I guess I'm kind of addicted to since that's how I got going in crypto and had my first big wins.  Anyway I've looked at a pf tracker and added a few other things in and I believe my pf exposure is very roughly

BNB ~33%
AVAX ~17%
ETH ~15%
BTC ~15%
CAKE ~10%
SOL ~ 5%

Over represented in BNB due to all the yield farming on Binance Smart chain, CAKE-BNB, ETH-BNB etc.  Looking to fix it in the coming months if we get an ALT season blow up of prices so I can break up and offload some of these farms and get back to a more basic bitcoin/eth dominant pf.  I'll also cashout a chunk of lifestyle tickets if things go well.  Whether I achieve it or not before the market pulls the rug again I don't know haha.

I'll be frank, I kind of agree with Boarder420.  You'll probably get yourself rekt'd if you are not lucky enough to get your timing down right.  You could end up with 90% losses overall with such large bags full of shitcoins.  I mean that with all due respect.  How confident are you that BNB/CAKE/SOL/AVAX will rebound after the next crash?  Don't get me wrong, all of them could.  But they could very well be the next Neo, NEM, QTUM, ect.  Not all crypto bounces back after a bear market and we will most likely have another bear market in the near future.  Now is the time to sell the shitcoins and take profits and/or get into Bitcoin/Ethereum.  At least you have a good basis to think Bitcoin/Ethereum will rebound after the next crash.

I don't know if you were around before 2018 but a lot of the top shitcoins from 2017 never recovered.  For every ADA there are three EOS'.  I am not saying there is not place in your bags for shitcoins -- I got my own shitcoins -- but lets be real here; they are only good for getting more Bitcoin/Ethereum.

It depends on your definition of rekt I guess.  I never said my strategy was without risk, but without those risks I wouldn't even have the PF I have now.  In January I had ~US$8k in crypto and now it's in the hundreds of thousands.  I've also been paying my CC in full with it each month for awhile now so I'm firmly in freeroll territory with this money.  Yet if you asked Boarder42 he'd probably tell you I'm some kind of crazy idiot sniffing unicorn farts?  I'm not sure what he was really on about.

Also I think your definition of shitcoin is quite a bit loser than mine.  BNB is #3 coin by market cap and native coin of the largest exchange, it's sitting at $100B by market cap.  Sol is #4, AVAX is #11.  You have to weight up the risk vs the reward.  CAKE I guess I just have some kind of misguided loyalty to the project.  First bought CAKE in Feb for $2 and BNB for $44, i think cake-bnb was paying 200% APR at the time, recompounded the yield and built a PF out of CAKE.  In that first run cake went to $45 and BNB went to nearly $700.  I sell CAKE every day, morning and night if I remember.  I've sold more cake than a cake shop LMAO.   It's still paying a decent yield.

One thing I will say about the defi yield is that it makes me sleep better at night knowing I have a few hundred dollars a day coming in that I can sell and not feel like I'm selling a dip or about to miss a pump etc.  For me it's guilt-free selling that is income and doesn't equal a capital gains event.  I can pay off my CC or buy some more bitcoin/eth/stock ETFs or some other crypto project.  For me the yield was a gamechanger, just owning a set amount of coins that doesn't change seems stagnant in comparison, like owning stocks.  Having said that, I learned some lessons in May when we had the large correction and if alt coins blow off again like that I am going to try and derisk some to the best of my judgement.  We don't seem to be there yet though.  Good luck with your own holdings.

Everything that isn't Bitcoin or Ethereum is a shitcoin.  That includes ADA which is 10% of my crypto portfolio, lol.

The May correction was nothing.  All these alts, including BNB and ADA, will dump 80-99% from wherever their high is.  May was what, 50%?

Yeah I think BNB was ~70%, I have no doubt you're right.  BTC itself dumps ~80-85% in the bear market.

I edited my comment above.

Is your money tied up in "liquidity pools"?  Isn't it fairly common for these things to get hacked or or drained by insiders who then disappear?  It seems they have a significant amount of additional risk but I guess that's why the rewards are so -- well -- rewarding.

Yeah it's not without risk that's for sure.  Fortunately none of the projects I've ever been involved with have been affected.  I guess the longer they've been running the less likely there is an exploit in the contracts waiting to be exploited.  Pancakeswap has over 13 billion$ staked on it.  If anyone hacks or rugs it, good for them honestly, that will be the heist of the century.

My holdings are 75% BTC, 20% ETH, only 5% altcoins - FTM-LINK-MATIC - I know, super conservative except for FTM but it is my first rodeo (4yr cycle), so I'm hanging back mostly observing and still learning. Basically, I've got a HODL portfolio. It turns out I am more risk-averse than I thought.
It is a great start.

I'm not convinced that we will have an 85% crash on bitcoin, more like 65% given the institutional presence. I will not panic sell:). Whenever the bear market returns I plan to slowly acquire another 0.50 bitcoin for a total of two whole bitcoins. BTC and six ETH will remain in my long-term portfolio.
Apparently, many of the altcoins do crash 85% except for the so-called blue chips that hold their value better.
 
BOA just announced they might offer loans against crypto assets. This is exactly what I expected to happen. In the future, people will use bitcoin as collateral instead of selling it.
You don't give up generational wealth - just sayin'.   
 
SOL-DOT-AR-RUNE-RAY-ADA-LUNA-SANDBOX are all on my watch and potentially buy the dip list - long term, along with three gaming coins - short term. I'm building a small Degen portfolio and will set up a couple of limit orders. It's all so frothy right now, all that FOMO and the Fear and Greed Index - ugh.
Not rushing to buy, if at all.

I do love the altcoins. Business is business - the alts are just tech start-ups. My background is in risk analysis (global underwriting) so I get great satisfaction from looking into the tokenomics (no rug pull potential), the experience of the developers, the quality of the VC they attract and whether they re-invest in the next round, the utility of the project, past successes and evidence of network building, whether they meet their upgrade deadlines, the business connections and the people....
It is endlessly entertaining - imagine approx. 12000 coins - but only 1% will be successful.

I do think the in-game play to earn and other games will be wildly profitable, but it is a niche, so those will be my occasional super risky play along with never more than one microcap. Except for Axie I don't plan on holding any gaming coins long term.
Other than that, I will leave the intriguing Metaverse and baffling NFTs to the crypto pros.   

FTM-Fantom is my only speculative altcoin pick so far. Looks promising and has a good chance to survive and thrive in the next cycle. That's what I want - blue-chip alts - a portfolio of ten coins tops, monitored consistently. We'll see.

Once all this hype is over and things settle down maybe by Dec-Jan or so I'll get serious about DeFi passive income. I have a new plan but somehow I've let myself become intimidated by all the steps and wallets in defi.
My area has several different crypto meet-ups incl a massive contingent in Orlando and of course Miami. Maybe I'll even meet Alex Machinsky in person one day since Celsius opened a new office in Tampa. 

[onecoolcat]

@Juan Ponce de León , are there conditions under which you'd sell some Bitcoin to lock in those gains?

Yeah absolutely.  If we get a parabolic move up I'll be looking to de-risk some but mainly from my alt coin positions which I have way too much of.  I also cash out some of my defi yield every week but mainly I use it to buy more crypto.

Sorry if I missed this earlier. If you don't mind my asking, @Juan Ponce de León, what % of your portfolio is in crypto vs conventional financial assets?

Is % the way you allocate to the non-crypto portion, or do you have other criteria instead (5 years' conventional assets, paid off house but the rest is crypto, etc)?

Are you seeking a FIRE target in some conventional way (eg, 25x annual spending) or using other goals for your accumulation strategies?

It's about 60/40 crypto vs stocks.  That was never the plan it's just the way it's worked out.  I don't put any new money into crypto and I try not to pull too much out, I'm basically playing with house money now so I'm happy to let it ride.  I'm not getting ahead of myself in regards to FIRE targets or anything like that.  If it happens, it happens.  If it all crashes to zero I'll diversify into tulip bulbs.

I'm curious about your allocation amongst your cypto assets, do you mind sharing? Here's mine:

VTSAX = 50%
Crypto = 50%

Of the Crypto, here's the current breakdown(it changes daily, because as you know, the price of all these things is terrifically volatile):
Ethereum = 56%
Bitcoin = 34.3%
alt coins = 9.3%

Of the 9.3% that I have in alt coins, here's the ones I have a small position in:
Cardano
Solana
Uniswap
Chainlink
Litecoin
Bitcoin Cash
Enjin
Polkadot
Avalanche
Aave
VeChain

My pf is very defi oriented and honestly not ideal, a lot of my coins are paired in liquidity pool tokens and paying daily yield, which I guess I'm kind of addicted to since that's how I got going in crypto and had my first big wins.  Anyway I've looked at a pf tracker and added a few other things in and I believe my pf exposure is very roughly

BNB ~33%
AVAX ~17%
ETH ~15%
BTC ~15%
CAKE ~10%
SOL ~ 5%

Over represented in BNB due to all the yield farming on Binance Smart chain, CAKE-BNB, ETH-BNB etc.  Looking to fix it in the coming months if we get an ALT season blow up of prices so I can break up and offload some of these farms and get back to a more basic bitcoin/eth dominant pf.  I'll also cashout a chunk of lifestyle tickets if things go well.  Whether I achieve it or not before the market pulls the rug again I don't know haha.

I'll be frank, I kind of agree with Boarder420.  You'll probably get yourself rekt'd if you are not lucky enough to get your timing down right.  You could end up with 90% losses overall with such large bags full of shitcoins.  I mean that with all due respect.  How confident are you that BNB/CAKE/SOL/AVAX will rebound after the next crash?  Don't get me wrong, all of them could.  But they could very well be the next Neo, NEM, QTUM, ect.  Not all crypto bounces back after a bear market and we will most likely have another bear market in the near future.  Now is the time to sell the shitcoins and take profits and/or get into Bitcoin/Ethereum.  At least you have a good basis to think Bitcoin/Ethereum will rebound after the next crash.

I don't know if you were around before 2018 but a lot of the top shitcoins from 2017 never recovered.  For every ADA there are three EOS'.  I am not saying there is not place in your bags for shitcoins -- I got my own shitcoins -- but lets be real here; they are only good for getting more Bitcoin/Ethereum.

It depends on your definition of rekt I guess.  I never said my strategy was without risk, but without those risks I wouldn't even have the PF I have now.  In January I had ~US$8k in crypto and now it's in the hundreds of thousands.  I've also been paying my CC in full with it each month for awhile now so I'm firmly in freeroll territory with this money.  Yet if you asked Boarder42 he'd probably tell you I'm some kind of crazy idiot sniffing unicorn farts?  I'm not sure what he was really on about.

Also I think your definition of shitcoin is quite a bit loser than mine.  BNB is #3 coin by market cap and native coin of the largest exchange, it's sitting at $100B by market cap.  Sol is #4, AVAX is #11.  You have to weight up the risk vs the reward.  CAKE I guess I just have some kind of misguided loyalty to the project.  First bought CAKE in Feb for $2 and BNB for $44, i think cake-bnb was paying 200% APR at the time, recompounded the yield and built a PF out of CAKE.  In that first run cake went to $45 and BNB went to nearly $700.  I sell CAKE every day, morning and night if I remember.  I've sold more cake than a cake shop LMAO.   It's still paying a decent yield.

One thing I will say about the defi yield is that it makes me sleep better at night knowing I have a few hundred dollars a day coming in that I can sell and not feel like I'm selling a dip or about to miss a pump etc.  For me it's guilt-free selling that is income and doesn't equal a capital gains event.  I can pay off my CC or buy some more bitcoin/eth/stock ETFs or some other crypto project.  For me the yield was a gamechanger, just owning a set amount of coins that doesn't change seems stagnant in comparison, like owning stocks.  Having said that, I learned some lessons in May when we had the large correction and if alt coins blow off again like that I am going to try and derisk some to the best of my judgement.  We don't seem to be there yet though.  Good luck with your own holdings.

Everything that isn't Bitcoin or Ethereum is a shitcoin.  That includes ADA which is 10% of my crypto portfolio, lol.

The May correction was nothing.  All these alts, including BNB and ADA, will dump 80-99% from wherever their high is.  May was what, 50%?

Yeah I think BNB was ~70%, I have no doubt you're right.  BTC itself dumps ~80-85% in the bear market.

I edited my comment above.

Is your money tied up in "liquidity pools"?  Isn't it fairly common for these things to get hacked or or drained by insiders who then disappear?  It seems they have a significant amount of additional risk but I guess that's why the rewards are so -- well -- rewarding.

Yeah it's not without risk that's for sure.  Fortunately none of the projects I've ever been involved with have been affected.  I guess the longer they've been running the less likely there is an exploit in the contracts waiting to be exploited.  Pancakeswap has over 13 billion$ staked on it.  If anyone hacks or rugs it, good for them honestly, that will be the heist of the century.

My holdings are 75% BTC, 20% ETH, only 5% altcoins - FTM-LINK-MATIC - I know, super conservative except for FTM but it is my first rodeo (4yr cycle), so I'm hanging back mostly observing and still learning. Basically, I've got a HODL portfolio. It turns out I am more risk-averse than I thought.
It is a great start.

I'm not convinced that we will have an 85% crash on bitcoin, more like 65% given the institutional presence. I will not panic sell:). Whenever the bear market returns I plan to slowly acquire another 0.50 bitcoin for a total of two whole bitcoins. BTC and six ETH will remain in my long-term portfolio.
Apparently, many of the altcoins do crash 85% except for the so-called blue chips that hold their value better.
 
BOA just announced they might offer loans against crypto assets. This is exactly what I expected to happen. In the future, people will use bitcoin as collateral instead of selling it.
You don't give up generational wealth - just sayin'.   
 
SOL-DOT-AR-RUNE-RAY-ADA-LUNA-SANDBOX are all on my watch and potentially buy the dip list - long term, along with three gaming coins - short term. I'm building a small Degen portfolio and will set up a couple of limit orders. It's all so frothy right now, all that FOMO and the Fear and Greed Index - ugh.
Not rushing to buy, if at all.

I do love the altcoins. Business is business - the alts are just tech start-ups. My background is in risk analysis (global underwriting) so I get great satisfaction from looking into the tokenomics (no rug pull potential), the experience of the developers, the quality of the VC they attract and whether they re-invest in the next round, the utility of the project, past successes and evidence of network building, whether they meet their upgrade deadlines, the business connections and the people....
It is endlessly entertaining - imagine approx. 12000 coins - but only 1% will be successful.

I do think the in-game play to earn and other games will be wildly profitable, but it is a niche, so those will be my occasional super risky play along with never more than one microcap. Except for Axie I don't plan on holding any gaming coins long term.
Other than that, I will leave the intriguing Metaverse and baffling NFTs to the crypto pros.   

FTM-Fantom is my only speculative altcoin pick so far. Looks promising and has a good chance to survive and thrive in the next cycle. That's what I want - blue-chip alts - a portfolio of ten coins tops, monitored consistently. We'll see.

Once all this hype is over and things settle down maybe by Dec-Jan or so I'll get serious about DeFi passive income. I have a new plan but somehow I've let myself become intimidated by all the steps and wallets in defi.
My area has several different crypto meet-ups incl a massive contingent in Orlando and of course Miami. Maybe I'll even meet Alex Machinsky in person one day since Celsius opened a new office in Tampa.

I wouldn't be surprised if bitcoin drops only 65% in the next bear run.  I would be surprised if the coins ranked 3 and below do not drop atleast 85% in the bear cycle.  ADA was very hyped in 2017 and 2018 and it kept alotnof hype through the entire bear cycle and it still dumped like 98%. 

I like your portfolio.  You will hate the bear cycle but you will always have the confidence of something good to look forward to.

[Rosy]

According to coin market cap, the top 3 cryptos are BTC, ETH and BNB.
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BNB-USD/

I'm missing something about Bitcoin Cash (BNB)... you pay transaction fees with it?  And so it's gone from $42 to $600 this year because of that?  I'm missing something.

These are two different coins.
Bitcoin Cash (BCH) is popular for payments around the world. It was a fork that split off the original Bitcoin.
Not to be confused with bitcoin.

The BNB Binance Coin was created by the Binance exchange.  https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/binance-coin-bnb.asp
It is similar to the FTX coin issued by the FTX exchange.

Basically, you get a credit on your transaction fees, and if you use defi - in their own network like CAKE,
it is easier to swap coins on their defi dex incl bitcoin.
An important feature is that the defi dex CAKE has coins you can't get on the big exchanges because they are not yet listed there.

I read somewhere the BNB offered a couple of other perks, you can probably google that.
Binance is by far the largest exchange worldwide and continues to build its own network.

[forgerator]

Since we're talking about existing allocations and the gains due to crypto , here's mine since Jan 2020.

Roth IRA - went up from $85k to $410k - Converted everything to GBTC back in July 2020 yolo style !. Later sold GBTC and got ETHE at the beginning of summer. Both Grayscale products.
401K - went up from $280 to 515k - Same as above except I did my conversion in Feb 2021 since I first had to convert to Rollover IRA.
Actual crypto - started with a $30k allocation back in Dec 2017 which then tanked to $5k but I kept DCAing, and now sitting at $280k. Out of this I have roughly $30k in blue-chip DeFi LPs generating approx $80 / day which I harvest and transfer to crypto debit card on a daily basis.
Robinhood crypto - static $5k trading portfolio where I keep taking profits every now and then, and transfer to bank. This is a 'for fun' account which I use to try out various TA / charting techniques.

Goal - Early retirement in about a couple of years with the assumption that this bull market will end 2017 with a blow-off top but not before a 4-5x on BTC and ETH. Hey I can dream right?

[onecoolcat]

Since we're talking about existing allocations and the gains due to crypto , here's mine since Jan 2020.

Roth IRA - went up from $85k to $410k - Converted everything to GBTC back in July 2020 yolo style !. Later sold GBTC and got ETHE at the beginning of summer. Both Grayscale products.
401K - went up from $280 to 515k - Same as above except I did my conversion in Feb 2021 since I first had to convert to Rollover IRA.
Actual crypto - started with a $30k allocation back in Dec 2017 which then tanked to $5k but I kept DCAing, and now sitting at $280k. Out of this I have roughly $30k in blue-chip DeFi LPs generating approx $80 / day which I harvest and transfer to crypto debit card on a daily basis.
Robinhood crypto - static $5k trading portfolio where I keep taking profits every now and then, and transfer to bank. This is a 'for fun' account which I use to try out various TA / charting techniques.

Goal - Early retirement in about a couple of years with the assumption that this bull market will end 2017 with a blow-off top but not before a 4-5x on BTC and ETH. Hey I can dream right?

That is amazing.  You are a crypto millionaire.  So happy for you!

[Juan Ponce de León]

Since we're talking about existing allocations and the gains due to crypto , here's mine since Jan 2020.

Roth IRA - went up from $85k to $410k - Converted everything to GBTC back in July 2020 yolo style !. Later sold GBTC and got ETHE at the beginning of summer. Both Grayscale products.
401K - went up from $280 to 515k - Same as above except I did my conversion in Feb 2021 since I first had to convert to Rollover IRA.
Actual crypto - started with a $30k allocation back in Dec 2017 which then tanked to $5k but I kept DCAing, and now sitting at $280k. Out of this I have roughly $30k in blue-chip DeFi LPs generating approx $80 / day which I harvest and transfer to crypto debit card on a daily basis.
Robinhood crypto - static $5k trading portfolio where I keep taking profits every now and then, and transfer to bank. This is a 'for fun' account which I use to try out various TA / charting techniques.

Goal - Early retirement in about a couple of years with the assumption that this bull market will end 2017 with a blow-off top but not before a 4-5x on BTC and ETH. Hey I can dream right?

Great work, this is the way it's done LMAO.

[aceyou]

The proponents are as ignorant as they are confident about the problems they proclaim crypto solves.

My understanding is that a rule of this site is that you can call out ideas, but not attack peoples character. 

Regardless of what you think of me and people who share my views, we are all human beings, and your statement is a character attack.  Do better.

This doesn't break the rules - is attacking an idea (crypto solves a problem!) and definitely not a person, particularly in context of the entire post. And pot meet kettle - you cut all but one sentence of a well-written post specifically to attack an individual forum member with your post. Do Better.

He said “proponents are as ignorant as they are confident”. A cryptocurrency is not a proponent.  A person is a proponent. He was attacking people.

[Juan Ponce de León]

BTW I haven't been following the NFT discussion all that closely as NFTs aren't really an interest of mine, I tend to actively avoid them.  But my understanding of using the NFTs for ticketing is they can hardwire in a transaction fee for change of ownership using smart contracts, so for example if a scalper was to onsell a concert ticket for $100, it would actually cost say $120 with the smart contract sending $20 back to the concert promoter each time the ticket changes hands.  This obviously does solve a problem where scalpers make a heap of money reselling tickets and the concert promoters don't really get a fair cut of that inflated price.  Businesses are obviously going to use blockchain technology to try and make more revenue, not less.

[the_gastropod]

BTW I haven't been following the NFT discussion all that closely as NFTs aren't really an interest of mine, I tend to actively avoid them.  But my understanding of using the NFTs for ticketing is they can hardwire in a transaction fee for change of ownership using smart contracts, so for example if a scalper was to onsell a concert ticket for $100, it would actually cost say $120 with the smart contract sending $20 back to the concert promoter each time the ticket changes hands.  This obviously does solve a problem where scalpers make a heap of money reselling tickets and the concert promoters don't really get a fair cut of that inflated price.  Businesses are obviously going to use blockchain technology to try and make more revenue, not less.

That is an interesting scheme. But couldn’t, e.g., Ticketmaster do the same thing in a centralized fashion significantly more simply using a standard database? What value does the decentralized aspect bring, when ultimately you’re depending on the concert venue to recognize this ticket?

[Juan Ponce de León]

BTW I haven't been following the NFT discussion all that closely as NFTs aren't really an interest of mine, I tend to actively avoid them.  But my understanding of using the NFTs for ticketing is they can hardwire in a transaction fee for change of ownership using smart contracts, so for example if a scalper was to onsell a concert ticket for $100, it would actually cost say $120 with the smart contract sending $20 back to the concert promoter each time the ticket changes hands.  This obviously does solve a problem where scalpers make a heap of money reselling tickets and the concert promoters don't really get a fair cut of that inflated price.  Businesses are obviously going to use blockchain technology to try and make more revenue, not less.

That is an interesting scheme. But couldn’t, e.g., Ticketmaster do the same thing in a centralized fashion significantly more simply using a standard database? What value does the decentralized aspect bring, when ultimately you’re depending on the concert venue to recognize this ticket?

So I've just demonstrated a way that blockchain technology solves a problem for ticket promoters and your question is, can't they think of some other way that doesn't involve blockchain technology because you don't like blockchain technology solving a problem?

[forgerator]

That is an interesting scheme. But couldn’t, e.g., Ticketmaster do the same thing in a centralized fashion significantly more simply using a standard database? What value does the decentralized aspect bring, when ultimately you’re depending on the concert venue to recognize this ticket?

I think based on same decentralization value proposition i.e. cut out the middle-man. The cut that TicketMaster would otherwise take, would be distributed to the miners / validators participating in the blockchain.

[the_gastropod]

BTW I haven't been following the NFT discussion all that closely as NFTs aren't really an interest of mine, I tend to actively avoid them.  But my understanding of using the NFTs for ticketing is they can hardwire in a transaction fee for change of ownership using smart contracts, so for example if a scalper was to onsell a concert ticket for $100, it would actually cost say $120 with the smart contract sending $20 back to the concert promoter each time the ticket changes hands.  This obviously does solve a problem where scalpers make a heap of money reselling tickets and the concert promoters don't really get a fair cut of that inflated price.  Businesses are obviously going to use blockchain technology to try and make more revenue, not less.

That is an interesting scheme. But couldn’t, e.g., Ticketmaster do the same thing in a centralized fashion significantly more simply using a standard database? What value does the decentralized aspect bring, when ultimately you’re depending on the concert venue to recognize this ticket?

So I've just demonstrated a way that blockchain technology solves a problem for ticket promoters and your question is, can't they think of some other way that doesn't involve blockchain technology because you don't like blockchain technology solving a problem?

I don’t think that categorization is accurate. If someone suggested that someone might create foot bridges out of running combustion lawnmower engines, and you said “well, you could. But.. you could also use wood or stone or steel”, that wouldn’t mean you don’t like combustion engines solving problems. It’s just that that problem—bridge building—isn’t solved more effectively by using combustion engines as a construction material than by other widely-used existing options.

[Juan Ponce de León]

That is an interesting scheme. But couldn’t, e.g., Ticketmaster do the same thing in a centralized fashion significantly more simply using a standard database? What value does the decentralized aspect bring, when ultimately you’re depending on the concert venue to recognize this ticket?

I think based on same decentralization value proposition i.e. cut out the middle-man. The cut that TicketMaster would otherwise take, would be distributed to the miners / validators participating in the blockchain.

Ticketmaster don't want to cut out the middleman, they ARE the middelman.  They want to cut in the middleman where previously scalpers were cutting them out.

[maizefolk]

Ticketmaster don't want to cut out the middleman, they ARE the middelman.  They want to cut in the middleman where previously scalpers were cutting them out.

I'd guess individual venues would be happy to cut out Ticketmaster if they could find an easy way to do so without losing attendees.

[forgerator]

That is an interesting scheme. But couldn’t, e.g., Ticketmaster do the same thing in a centralized fashion significantly more simply using a standard database? What value does the decentralized aspect bring, when ultimately you’re depending on the concert venue to recognize this ticket?

I think based on same decentralization value proposition i.e. cut out the middle-man. The cut that TicketMaster would otherwise take, would be distributed to the miners / validators participating in the blockchain.

Ticketmaster don't want to cut out the middleman, they ARE the middelman.  They want to cut in the middleman where previously scalpers were cutting them out.

Yes that's what I meant, that a decentralized blockchain based solution will cut out Ticketmaster which acts as the middleman.

[GuitarStv]

That is an interesting scheme. But couldn’t, e.g., Ticketmaster do the same thing in a centralized fashion significantly more simply using a standard database? What value does the decentralized aspect bring, when ultimately you’re depending on the concert venue to recognize this ticket?

I think based on same decentralization value proposition i.e. cut out the middle-man. The cut that TicketMaster would otherwise take, would be distributed to the miners / validators participating in the blockchain.

Ticketmaster don't want to cut out the middleman, they ARE the middelman.  They want to cut in the middleman where previously scalpers were cutting them out.

You're acting like Ticketmaster doesn't like scalping.  I mean, Ticketmaster has been working with scalpers to make sure that they get the tickets they want for events for a long time - https://liveforlivemusic.com/news/ticketmaster-tradedesk-scalp/.

Scalpers and Ticketmaster are close and friendly business partners.  Not sure why they would jeopardize that relationship that they've spent so much time and effort to build for NFTs.

[Telecaster]

Ticketmaster don't want to cut out the middleman, they ARE the middelman.  They want to cut in the middleman where previously scalpers were cutting them out.

I'd guess individual venues would be happy to cut out Ticketmaster if they could find an easy way to do so without losing attendees.

Ticketmaster pays robust fees to venues to be the sole ticket provider. 

[Telecaster]

That is an interesting scheme. But couldn’t, e.g., Ticketmaster do the same thing in a centralized fashion significantly more simply using a standard database? What value does the decentralized aspect bring, when ultimately you’re depending on the concert venue to recognize this ticket?

I think based on same decentralization value proposition i.e. cut out the middle-man. The cut that TicketMaster would otherwise take, would be distributed to the miners / validators participating in the blockchain.

The venues accept kick-backs from Ticketmaster.  In your scenario, the vig goes to the miners/validators instead of to Ticketmaster and the venues.  Why would they willingly give that up?

[Juan Ponce de León]

That is an interesting scheme. But couldn’t, e.g., Ticketmaster do the same thing in a centralized fashion significantly more simply using a standard database? What value does the decentralized aspect bring, when ultimately you’re depending on the concert venue to recognize this ticket?

I think based on same decentralization value proposition i.e. cut out the middle-man. The cut that TicketMaster would otherwise take, would be distributed to the miners / validators participating in the blockchain.

The venues accept kick-backs from Ticketmaster.  In your scenario, the vig goes to the miners/validators instead of to Ticketmaster and the venues.  Why would they willingly give that up?

Uhm this isn't really a thing, the miners get transaction fees but you'd be talking fractions of a cent when applied to a small purchase like a concert ticket.  You wouldn't do it on a crypto network with high transaction fees you would use one of the low cost chains.

[maizefolk]

Ticketmaster don't want to cut out the middleman, they ARE the middelman.  They want to cut in the middleman where previously scalpers were cutting them out.

I'd guess individual venues would be happy to cut out Ticketmaster if they could find an easy way to do so without losing attendees.

Ticketmaster pays robust fees to venues to be the sole ticket provider.

Ah, right you are! It sounds like ticketmaster's big innovation was charging fans rather than venues which drove all the venues to adopt it. I hadn't read up on their business model before. 

It took more than smart code, however, to turn Ticketmaster into one of the world's most powerful entertainment companies. It took the arrival in 1982 of a new leader—Fred Rosen, a fast-talking lawyer and amateur comedian who had a profound realization: Ticketing isn't about the bands or the fans. It's about the venues.

Shortly after he was hired, Rosen systematically contacted the biggest concert halls and arenas in the country and made them all the same spectacular offer: Where Ticketron charged venues for its service (adding a minimal fee for customers—$1 per ticket), Rosen offered to actually pay the venues. He would increase service fees and split the money with whoever housed a concert or sporting event. Everybody signed up

So I guess in this business model the people whose ox is being gored are the acts and the fans. The venue mandates that act has to use ticketmaster. Ticketmaster tacks on a lot of fees the fans have to pay (which ticketmaster splits with the venue). The acts aren't able to charge as much for tickets to their shows because they know their fans are paying 20-35% in fees on top of the ticket price to the ticket reseller the venues force the acts to work with.

It should would be nice to cut out this particular middleman but yeah I don't know that a more distributed way to exchange and retrade tickets would be enough to take this particular failure of the free market down.

[Juan Ponce de León]

That is an interesting scheme. But couldn’t, e.g., Ticketmaster do the same thing in a centralized fashion significantly more simply using a standard database? What value does the decentralized aspect bring, when ultimately you’re depending on the concert venue to recognize this ticket?

I think based on same decentralization value proposition i.e. cut out the middle-man. The cut that TicketMaster would otherwise take, would be distributed to the miners / validators participating in the blockchain.

Ticketmaster don't want to cut out the middleman, they ARE the middelman.  They want to cut in the middleman where previously scalpers were cutting them out.

You're acting like Ticketmaster doesn't like scalping.  I mean, Ticketmaster has been working with scalpers to make sure that they get the tickets they want for events for a long time - https://liveforlivemusic.com/news/ticketmaster-tradedesk-scalp/.

Scalpers and Ticketmaster are close and friendly business partners.  Not sure why they would jeopardize that relationship that they've spent so much time and effort to build for NFTs.

You're right they don't want to stop the scalpers, but I do think they'd like to make sure they get their cut when tickets change hands.

[Juan Ponce de León]

Ticketmaster don't want to cut out the middleman, they ARE the middelman.  They want to cut in the middleman where previously scalpers were cutting them out.

I'd guess individual venues would be happy to cut out Ticketmaster if they could find an easy way to do so without losing attendees.

Ticketmaster pays robust fees to venues to be the sole ticket provider.

Ah, right you are! It sounds like ticketmaster's big innovation was charging fans rather than venues which drove all the venues to adopt it. I hadn't read up on their business model before. 

It took more than smart code, however, to turn Ticketmaster into one of the world's most powerful entertainment companies. It took the arrival in 1982 of a new leader—Fred Rosen, a fast-talking lawyer and amateur comedian who had a profound realization: Ticketing isn't about the bands or the fans. It's about the venues.

Shortly after he was hired, Rosen systematically contacted the biggest concert halls and arenas in the country and made them all the same spectacular offer: Where Ticketron charged venues for its service (adding a minimal fee for customers—$1 per ticket), Rosen offered to actually pay the venues. He would increase service fees and split the money with whoever housed a concert or sporting event. Everybody signed up

So I guess in this business model the people whose ox is being gored are the acts and the fans. The venue mandates that act has to use ticketmaster. Ticketmaster tacks on a lot of fees the fans have to pay (which ticketmaster splits with the venue). The acts aren't able to charge as much for tickets to their shows because they know their fans are paying 20-35% in fees on top of the ticket price to the ticket reseller the venues force the acts to work with.

It should would be nice to cut out this particular middleman but yeah I don't know that a more distributed way to exchange and retrade tickets would be enough to take this particular failure of the free market down.

Wouldn't ticketmaster also be responsible for marketing and promoting the event?  It's not just a blind cash grab they are providing a specialised service I would imagine.

[Telecaster]

You're right they don't want to stop the scalpers, but I do think they'd like to make sure they get their cut when tickets change hands.

They already do:

https://www.ticketmaster.com/verified

Edit:  See also

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/20/649666928/ticketmaster-has-its-own-secret-scalping-program-canadian-journalists-report

[MustacheAndaHalf]

According to coin market cap, the top 3 cryptos are BTC, ETH and BNB.
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BNB-USD/

I'm missing something about Bitcoin Cash (BNB)... you pay transaction fees with it?  And so it's gone from $42 to $600 this year because of that?  I'm missing something.

These are two different coins.
Bitcoin Cash (BCH) is popular for payments around the world. It was a fork that split off the original Bitcoin.
Not to be confused with bitcoin.

The BNB Binance Coin was created by the Binance exchange.  https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/binance-coin-bnb.asp
It is similar to the FTX coin issued by the FTX exchange.

Basically, you get a credit on your transaction fees, and if you use defi - in their own network like CAKE,
it is easier to swap coins on their defi dex incl bitcoin.
An important feature is that the defi dex CAKE has coins you can't get on the big exchanges because they are not yet listed there.

I read somewhere the BNB offered a couple of other perks, you can probably google that.
Binance is by far the largest exchange worldwide and continues to build its own network.

Oops, I have no idea why I typed Bitcoin cash, when I meant Binance Coin (BNB).  I mentioned transaction fees because I thought I was discussing the sole benefit of BNB.  But your link mentions travel and other purchases, as well as smart contracts running on Binance chain.

Binance has been pouring 1/5th of it's quarterly profits into buying and destroying (burning) BNB every quarter.  Seems like the world's largest crypto exchange is pushing for BNB to replace ETH or BTC.  They already do more transactions than ETH, and has the ingredients to push usage more broadly.

I think I should consider how much to diversify my BTC + ETH into buying BNB.  If BNB displaces the other two, their value could drop while BNB continues climbing.