Author Topic: Vanguard Windsor Fund (VWNDX)  (Read 2755 times)

HBFIRE

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Vanguard Windsor Fund (VWNDX)
« on: January 29, 2018, 11:48:46 AM »
Was just reading this article on this fund:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelfoster/2017/04/14/here-are-the-best-vanguard-funds-to-buy-theyre-not-the-ones-you-think/#4f9eef8f99c2

Anyone invested in the Windsor fund?

Curious as to why it doesn't get more attention.

Bateaux

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Re: Vanguard Windsor Fund (VWNDX)
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2018, 08:08:28 PM »
We've held Windsor II with good success for 18 years.  We are about to invest 200k of transferred funds and Windsor is definitely being discussed.   

Abe

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Re: Vanguard Windsor Fund (VWNDX)
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2018, 09:47:56 PM »
VTSAX' management fees 1/5th of VWNEX (both admiral shares in the respective funds), plus this:

Image too big, but basically Windsors' returns are about 1% lower than VTSAX for 5 times the cost.


HBFIRE

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Re: Vanguard Windsor Fund (VWNDX)
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2018, 10:00:10 PM »
VTSAX' management fees 1/5th of VWNEX (both admiral shares in the respective funds), plus this:

Image too big, but basically Windsors' returns are about 1% lower than VTSAX for 5 times the cost.

Yeah I saw that too....wonder where the Forbes author was pulling his data from?   I couldn't replicate it.

Abe

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Re: Vanguard Windsor Fund (VWNDX)
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2018, 10:15:25 PM »
He's using something called Ycharts, but even Vanguard's own charts show VTSAX performing better. Same with Google and Yahoo. <shrug>

HBFIRE

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Re: Vanguard Windsor Fund (VWNDX)
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2018, 10:22:20 PM »
Yeah, this is what i get on morningstar:

https://tinyurl.com/ybqwcys9


Edit: I see, if you set the date at 2001 to current date, then it outperforms.  Looks like it did better from 2001-2008.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 10:26:52 PM by dustinst22 »

Bateaux

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Re: Vanguard Windsor Fund (VWNDX)
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2018, 07:40:47 AM »
It's the long track record of nearly 11 percent returns that make Windsor attractive to me.  We still hold over 100k in Windsor II and will probably keep it there, it's our largest managed fund..  Most likely the 200k or so we're moving from Ameriprise in a SEP IRA is going to be VTSAX.  They are winners and not expensive for managed funds.  We hold over 600k in Vanguard Index 500, because VTSAX isn't offered in my 401k.  We also hold almost 200k in VTSAX in ROTH IRAs.  I've made money in them all.  Recently made about 200k move into Vanguard VBTLX Total Bond Index.  JL Collins says VTSAX can do it all, add some VBTLX if you want to smooth the ride.

HBFIRE

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Re: Vanguard Windsor Fund (VWNDX)
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2018, 08:19:53 AM »
Definitely looks like a good option for anyone interested in an inexpensive managed fund.

Honestly, I had no idea Vanguard had these, as I have a very simple 3 fund portfolio.

Abe

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Re: Vanguard Windsor Fund (VWNDX)
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2018, 10:54:18 PM »
Is there any specific data indicating this specific fund would be a good idea? Is it less volatile than VTSAX? Otherwise it just seems like extra money going to fees for no clear benefit. Is there something I"m missing?

HBFIRE

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Re: Vanguard Windsor Fund (VWNDX)
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2018, 11:24:38 PM »
Is there any specific data indicating this specific fund would be a good idea? Is it less volatile than VTSAX? Otherwise it just seems like extra money going to fees for no clear benefit. Is there something I"m missing?

Well the original Windsor fund has outperformed the S&P 500 by a pretty good margin over the last 40 years.  That to me is impressive.  11.45% since its inception in 1958.  That said, from what I can gather it had its best returns (for 31 years) when John Neff managed it.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2018, 11:32:59 PM by dustinst22 »

Abe

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Re: Vanguard Windsor Fund (VWNDX)
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2018, 12:25:15 AM »
I guess that's good, and that's true for the last 15 year. I'd think a more important comparison, it being Vanguard and all, is comparison to their lower-fee index funds. In theory you're buying expertise compared to people investing in Index funds, right?

VTSAX (0.04% fee):
 Std Dev of Annual Return was 16.9%
 Mean return was 11.9%

Windsor I (0.20% fee):
 Std Dev of Annual Return was 19.8%
 Mean return was 11.6%

Windsor II (0.33% fee):
 Std Dev of Annual Return was 16.5%
 Mean return was 11.0%

Vanguard S&P 500 Index (0.04% fee):
 Std Dev of Annual Return was 16.3%
 Mean return was 11.3%

So it seems between the recovery from the Dot Com bust, the Great Recession and the current bull market, there isn't much difference between all 4 funds. In fact, Windsor I under-performed VTSAX 9 out of the 15 years (and had 4 years of negative return vs 1 year for VTSAX) and Windsor II 7 out of the 15 years (with 2 years of negative returns).

I guess it just depends what you're comparing against. All of them did really well regardless.



HBFIRE

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Re: Vanguard Windsor Fund (VWNDX)
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2018, 07:50:54 AM »
Keep in mind VTSAX has a short history.  Thatís whatís impressive to me about this fund is how long itís done well.