Author Topic: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3  (Read 198788 times)

cowstash

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #250 on: March 25, 2014, 06:51:15 AM »
I think another benefit is that this activity satisfies the itch to trade and stock pick, which some investors do with 5% of funny money or even dangerously with more. If churning operations like this satisfy this urge, then you will be more psychologically able to handle simply indexing with your entire portfolio.

I think this is exactly right. I look at it this way, I can either pay Charles Schwab $16 to buy/sell a stock like BRK.B, or have Loyal3 and my credit card company pay me about $55 in rewards, and I still get to scratch that picking and trading itch.

wholeinone04

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #251 on: March 25, 2014, 09:37:43 AM »
I think another benefit is that this activity satisfies the itch to trade and stock pick, which some investors do with 5% of funny money or even dangerously with more. If churning operations like this satisfy this urge, then you will be more psychologically able to handle simply indexing with your entire portfolio.

I think this is exactly right. I look at it this way, I can either pay Charles Schwab $16 to buy/sell a stock like BRK.B, or have Loyal3 and my credit card company pay me about $55 in rewards, and I still get to scratch that picking and trading itch.

Definitely a good point, even though 90% of my portfolio is in index funds/real estate, I do keep about 5% in Lending Club and another 0-5% in individual stocks from time to time. 

Right now I'm just investing in tax advantaged space but if I do some after tax investing might do it with loyal3 and invest in 5-10 ind stocks with Loyal3.  More diversification risk but that might be balanced by the credit card rewards..

sthubbar

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #252 on: March 25, 2014, 09:33:41 PM »
Hi, first time mustachian here.

Loyal3 is still in it's infancy and has some quirks.

Failed transactions counts against the $2,500 30 day transaction limit per stock.

I submitted a $2,500 purchase for Apple using my shiny new AA Executive card, to help with that hefty $10,000 in 90 days spend.  The transaction was put on hold by Citi as potential fraud.  Despite my clearing the transaction with Citi, Loyal3 had already cancelled the purchase.  When I tried to redo the purchase the online system says I have reached the monthly limit.  Loyal3 support says there is no way around it.  I just have to wait 30 days to try again.

Disappointing.

Ricky

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #253 on: March 26, 2014, 02:37:50 AM »
I think another benefit is that this activity satisfies the itch to trade and stock pick, which some investors do with 5% of funny money or even dangerously with more. If churning operations like this satisfy this urge, then you will be more psychologically able to handle simply indexing with your entire portfolio.

I don't think you can go wrong with Coke or Walmart or Pepsi. Now, I probably wouldn't regularly invest in AMC or Abercrombie but to each their own. You can basically mimic a good index fund with the right allocation and keep yourself interested.

sthubbar

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #254 on: March 26, 2014, 02:54:20 AM »
I don't think you can go wrong with Coke or Walmart or Pepsi. Now, I probably wouldn't regularly invest in AMC or Abercrombie but to each their own. You can basically mimic a good index fund with the right allocation and keep yourself interested.

Before I read Rule #1 Investing I would have also assumed Coke, Walmart and Pepsi are safe investments.  Then I was introduced to the concept of trying to determine the value of a stock and comparing this value to the current price.

I completely agree that these companies will still be around in 10 years, and I think that is what makes many people assume they are "safe" investments.

In particular, the share price of these companies and what I think their value is as follows:

StockPriceValue
Coke38.6212.54
Pepsi82.4027.52
Walmart76.8731.18

They all looked overpriced, especially when you consider the advice is to only purchase stocks that are selling at 1/2 the value!

Of the Loyal3 stocks, only one has a long track record and is at a reasonable price to it's value.

beltim

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #255 on: March 26, 2014, 03:20:13 AM »
I don't think you can go wrong with Coke or Walmart or Pepsi. Now, I probably wouldn't regularly invest in AMC or Abercrombie but to each their own. You can basically mimic a good index fund with the right allocation and keep yourself interested.

Before I read Rule #1 Investing I would have also assumed Coke, Walmart and Pepsi are safe investments.  Then I was introduced to the concept of trying to determine the value of a stock and comparing this value to the current price.

I completely agree that these companies will still be around in 10 years, and I think that is what makes many people assume they are "safe" investments.

In particular, the share price of these companies and what I think their value is as follows:

StockPriceValue
Coke38.6212.54
Pepsi82.4027.52
Walmart76.8731.18

They all looked overpriced, especially when you consider the advice is to only purchase stocks that are selling at 1/2 the value!

Of the Loyal3 stocks, only one has a long track record and is at a reasonable price to it's value.

You think coke, Pepsi, and Walmart should trade at a p/e of 6.4? Why?

innerscorecard

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #256 on: March 26, 2014, 03:24:28 AM »
I would not want to hold long-term through Loyal3. I prefer a more conventional discount brokerage such as Schwab or even an even cheaper one such as Interactive Brokers. Loyal3 doesn't handle dividends well, for starters.

I also really dislike how it is tilted towards consumer staples. This may be good for their objectives, but is bad for diversification of your portfolio. Maybe as a small portion of a large portfolio.

For me it is about churning only. And for the purposes of churning, as opposed to investing, low-beta stocks are "safe," as they are not volatile. I would not think that they were safe for investing, since investing is based on value to price. For the purposes of churning, value to price is fairly irrelevant, if beta is low enough. That is to say, the risk of a contraction happening on any given churning holding period of less than a day are low enough not to matter, especially given a sufficiently large set of churning transactions to spread out risk, as King Coin has described already in this thread.

sthubbar

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #257 on: March 26, 2014, 05:13:02 AM »
You think coke, Pepsi, and Walmart should trade at a p/e of 6.4? Why?

Wonderful question.  I'll start a new thread to address it.

Thread is here:

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/forum/investor-alley/what-is-the-value-of-stock-x/
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 05:49:39 AM by sthubbar »

sthubbar

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #258 on: March 26, 2014, 05:26:17 AM »
For me it is about churning only. And for the purposes of churning, as opposed to investing, low-beta stocks are "safe," as they are not volatile.

"Mr. Gambini, That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection...Overruled."  :)

Just kidding, about the "overruled" part.  You are exactly right.

cowstash

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #259 on: March 26, 2014, 06:02:23 AM »
For me it is about churning only. And for the purposes of churning, as opposed to investing, low-beta stocks are "safe," as they are not volatile.

With this in mind, I've added stock betas to my Loyal3 Calculation Spreadsheet, and the attached screenshot is the results for the lowest stock betas on Loyal3. I believe means they are less susceptible to volatility if the rest of the market is moving in either direction. The thought is that you're less likely to get burned (or profit) in one day that happens to be chaotic with one of these lower beta stocks than at the other end.

I've also gone in and added a few features to that Google Doc spreadsheet -- it now tracks all of your Loyal3 purchases with each card, tallies them, and if you reach the spending threshold it includes the signup bonus in the Total Net Return box. It's a lot more satisfying now :) They're still at the same links as that original post: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/forum/investor-alley/using-a-credit-card-to-purchase-stocks-at-loyal3/msg239587/#msg239587

Fireman

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #260 on: March 26, 2014, 06:41:38 AM »
"Mr. Gambini, That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection...Overruled."  :)

What's a grit?

innerscorecard

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #261 on: March 26, 2014, 08:38:07 PM »
Just took my first capital loss on Loyal3 today. Put in the sell order on my Disney shares this morning when I would have made a healthy profit from the buy price...by the time the sell order actually went through, the whole market took a shitter and I sold the shares for considerably less than what I bought them for.

Thank goodness I am shielded not only by credit card rewards cashback but also by sign-up bonuses.

A good reminder of why Loyal3 is a crappy platform EXCEPT for its taking credit cards.

thepokercab

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #262 on: March 26, 2014, 09:01:55 PM »
Just took my first capital loss on Loyal3 today. Put in the sell order on my Disney shares this morning when I would have made a healthy profit from the buy price...by the time the sell order actually went through, the whole market took a shitter and I sold the shares for considerably less than what I bought them for.

Thank goodness I am shielded not only by credit card rewards cashback but also by sign-up bonuses.

A good reminder of why Loyal3 is a crappy platform EXCEPT for its taking credit cards.

Yeah- same here, I took a $2.85 loss.  I netted about 1,800 points on my credit card all together- which is good for an $18.00 redemption on travel.  I've been mostly dabbling so far, and have been keeping the amounts relatively small. 

Meh- i might crank up the activity, but seeing as how other folks got warning messages, i kind of got skiddish.   

innerscorecard

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #263 on: March 27, 2014, 01:10:10 AM »
Got money from some recent sales fairly quickly. Now it's time for the rewards points to show up, which as I understand it may take until my next statement or even later.

cowstash

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #264 on: March 27, 2014, 02:04:10 AM »
Just took my first capital loss on Loyal3 today. Put in the sell order on my Disney shares this morning when I would have made a healthy profit from the buy price...by the time the sell order actually went through, the whole market took a shitter and I sold the shares for considerably less than what I bought them for.

Thank goodness I am shielded not only by credit card rewards cashback but also by sign-up bonuses.

A good reminder of why Loyal3 is a crappy platform EXCEPT for its taking credit cards.

Oof, yesterday was bad. I was poised to sell some yesterday, but by 1:50PM the market was still sinking, so I didn't. Just a reminder that you can/should if you can wait until just before 2PM to put in your sell order since they'll be processed around 2:30. My shares dropped like $25 in the two hours that I owned them before I could sell (but didn't). I figure I've got a decent chance that it'll be up by that time in one of the coming days.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 05:01:10 AM by cowstash »

innerscorecard

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #265 on: March 27, 2014, 02:52:48 AM »
Ugh, too bad I can't be awake then. My time zone lets me see the market's opening hour or so but then I have to go to sleep.

GoldenStache

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #266 on: March 27, 2014, 06:32:38 AM »
@Cowstash

I am in the same place with MSFT.  I am hoping to get a good bounce today and get rid of it in the green. 

penny

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #267 on: March 27, 2014, 11:30:35 AM »
My account was closed without warning about two weeks ago. But in fairness I was being a bit reckless as I wanted to earn a certain amount of points and bonuses quickly for a specific purpose. I invested about $30,000 in maybe a bit over a month. Once shut down, I was allowed to sell, and withdraw, but not buy any additional shares. Made $270. They said that I may contact them to reopen my account.

GoldenStache

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #268 on: March 27, 2014, 01:40:53 PM »
Penny,

Did you get a warning and just kept going or did they just close it out of the blue?

penny

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #269 on: March 27, 2014, 02:01:07 PM »
No warning. I was surprised to see that a previous poster received a "watch it" message, so my guess is my final transactions ($5,000) happened in such quick succession that I went over the warning threshold and closed account threshold within the same day. 

Investing4Freedom

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #270 on: March 29, 2014, 06:58:03 AM »
Well, my Barclay's card is in the mail.  I'm going to try to get in on this and see how much of my honeymoon I can cover with statement credits.  My transactions will be smaller, more in the $500 range, and I may toss in a few smaller buy and holds as well.  I'll update how it goes.  Thanks everyone for the idea!

ZMonet

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #271 on: March 31, 2014, 05:32:56 PM »
I'm out, but had a good run.  They closed my account today @ $70,000 spent by credit card.  The cancellation doesn't say anything about why the account was cancelled, just that I can't make any additional purchases.

They sent me a first warning notice when I had manufactured spent approximately $45,000 and after that I slowed down the pace and held the stocks at least a day.  I thought the trigger might have been my buying and selling on the same day, which is what I had started doing when I got the first notice.  I guess it is isn't just that and, from what others have posted, it seems like the threshold isn't an amount but just a subjective view of your account.  Oh well, probably could have maximized this a bit more if I opened more cards (just opened two), held some equities longer term and spread out the purchases over months.  Then again, the credit card option might be dead very quickly too -- just no way of knowing.

Here is my earn:

Southwest Card - bonus offer: 50,000 points after spend minimum
Barclays Card - bonus offer $440 for travel expenses after met spend min.

Earned an additional 60,000 Southwest points, so a total of 110,000 -- value at 1.43 cents a points = $1573 Southwest credit total.
Earned a Southwest Companion Pass (unlimited free travel for companion) for hitting 110,000 points -- good until December 2015 -- value at ???
Earned an additional 10,000 Barclays points -- value at $550 travel credit
Earned $311 on stock appreciation

TOTAL -- $2434 TRAVEL CREDIT and a SW COMPANION PASS

Thanks Cowstash for the tracking sheet.  It was invaluable.



GoldenStache

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #272 on: March 31, 2014, 07:16:48 PM »
@Zmonet

You are my hero. 

I have done $7,500 so far and order $5k more today, I am really trying to get as much as I can without my account being closed.

Up $47.

wholeinone04

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #273 on: April 01, 2014, 12:26:54 AM »
For me it is about churning only. And for the purposes of churning, as opposed to investing, low-beta stocks are "safe," as they are not volatile.

With this in mind, I've added stock betas to my Loyal3 Calculation Spreadsheet, and the attached screenshot is the results for the lowest stock betas on Loyal3. I believe means they are less susceptible to volatility if the rest of the market is moving in either direction. The thought is that you're less likely to get burned (or profit) in one day that happens to be chaotic with one of these lower beta stocks than at the other end.

I've also gone in and added a few features to that Google Doc spreadsheet -- it now tracks all of your Loyal3 purchases with each card, tallies them, and if you reach the spending threshold it includes the signup bonus in the Total Net Return box. It's a lot more satisfying now :) They're still at the same links as that original post: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/forum/investor-alley/using-a-credit-card-to-purchase-stocks-at-loyal3/msg239587/#msg239587

This is a really helpful chart.  I have about 18k to spend in the next 3 months(2nd Citi AA Exec card, Barclay and chase ink) and I think I'm going to use Loyal3 to try and help me get there.  I'm thinking I'll do 1-2k in purchases on a few of the lowest Beta stocks and hold for 1-3 days(to avoid account shut down).  We'll see how it goes :)

innerscorecard

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #274 on: April 01, 2014, 12:47:28 AM »
I'm out, but had a good run.  They closed my account today @ $70,000 spent by credit card.  The cancellation doesn't say anything about why the account was cancelled, just that I can't make any additional purchases.

They sent me a first warning notice when I had manufactured spent approximately $45,000 and after that I slowed down the pace and held the stocks at least a day.  I thought the trigger might have been my buying and selling on the same day, which is what I had started doing when I got the first notice.  I guess it is isn't just that and, from what others have posted, it seems like the threshold isn't an amount but just a subjective view of your account.  Oh well, probably could have maximized this a bit more if I opened more cards (just opened two), held some equities longer term and spread out the purchases over months.  Then again, the credit card option might be dead very quickly too -- just no way of knowing.

Here is my earn:

Southwest Card - bonus offer: 50,000 points after spend minimum
Barclays Card - bonus offer $440 for travel expenses after met spend min.

Earned an additional 60,000 Southwest points, so a total of 110,000 -- value at 1.43 cents a points = $1573 Southwest credit total.
Earned a Southwest Companion Pass (unlimited free travel for companion) for hitting 110,000 points -- good until December 2015 -- value at ???
Earned an additional 10,000 Barclays points -- value at $550 travel credit
Earned $311 on stock appreciation

TOTAL -- $2434 TRAVEL CREDIT and a SW COMPANION PASS

Thanks Cowstash for the tracking sheet.  It was invaluable.


Nice, you had a good run! Compared to me you were much more conservative on how many new credit cards you opened, but much more aggressive on the churn on those credit cards. Different ways to skin a cat, as they say.

GoldenStache

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #275 on: April 01, 2014, 06:09:50 PM »
My account was closed today.  I did $2,500 a week for the first 3 weeks on one card.  Last week I switched cards, and did $5k on one day.  No warning, just that my account was closed and I could only keep my current money in loyal if I wanted but no new money could be added.  I will give them a call in a day or two and see what they say.  If they won't reopen my account, I will open a new one under my DW and drop 100k in a day just as a thank you. 

Fireman

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #276 on: April 01, 2014, 06:46:38 PM »

innerscorecard

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #277 on: April 01, 2014, 07:40:36 PM »
My account was closed today. The reason given by e-mail was NOT that I used the platform incorrectly, but that I am not currently located in the United States. Not sure if they found out through IP address used for logins or through my posts in this very thread. Stay careful out there guys. And pour a 40 for me. :p

bostonmoney

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #278 on: April 02, 2014, 06:45:16 AM »
I am about to start this on a few current cards I have to evaluate it as a possibility for my next CC apps min spend.

I was wondering if those being shut down are leaving the money invested less than a day?  Obviously there is more risk leaving it in but just curious what might be causing the shut downs.  Its either pulling the money immediately or its changing cards over and over again.

If its the second reason I worry this is not the best for a bunch of new apps, or maybe it needs to be spread over the course of a few months not weeks.

Been following this thread for a while and decided to put some small amounts in as a test run on current cards.  Thanks for everyone detailing their experiences, I will let you know when I do my next CC apps how it goes for me.


smedleyb

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #279 on: April 02, 2014, 08:01:21 AM »
I'm out, but had a good run.  They closed my account today @ $70,000 spent by credit card.  The cancellation doesn't say anything about why the account was cancelled, just that I can't make any additional purchases.

They sent me a first warning notice when I had manufactured spent approximately $45,000 and after that I slowed down the pace and held the stocks at least a day.  I thought the trigger might have been my buying and selling on the same day, which is what I had started doing when I got the first notice.  I guess it is isn't just that and, from what others have posted, it seems like the threshold isn't an amount but just a subjective view of your account.  Oh well, probably could have maximized this a bit more if I opened more cards (just opened two), held some equities longer term and spread out the purchases over months.  Then again, the credit card option might be dead very quickly too -- just no way of knowing.

Here is my earn:

Southwest Card - bonus offer: 50,000 points after spend minimum
Barclays Card - bonus offer $440 for travel expenses after met spend min.

Earned an additional 60,000 Southwest points, so a total of 110,000 -- value at 1.43 cents a points = $1573 Southwest credit total.
Earned a Southwest Companion Pass (unlimited free travel for companion) for hitting 110,000 points -- good until December 2015 -- value at ???
Earned an additional 10,000 Barclays points -- value at $550 travel credit
Earned $311 on stock appreciation

TOTAL -- $2434 TRAVEL CREDIT and a SW COMPANION PASS

Thanks Cowstash for the tracking sheet.  It was invaluable.


No offense, but if you're going to egregiously abuse this CC option, at least bang out some other CC minimum spends with that 70K bender, rather than pluck it all down on the SW card.  I mean, that's 6 Citi AA Advantage cards for 660,000 miles easily, which I conservatively value at $13000. 


cowstash

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #280 on: April 02, 2014, 09:23:40 AM »
My account was closed today. The reason given by e-mail was NOT that I used the platform incorrectly, but that I am not currently located in the United States. Not sure if they found out through IP address used for logins or through my posts in this very thread. Stay careful out there guys. And pour a 40 for me. :p

Sadly, I got the same immediate closure last night. They must be moving through suspicious accounts and looking for reasons to shut them down since it's been a week since I purchased or sold anything, I've just been holding. I only bought <$3k worth of stock on a CC.

I'm going to try to appeal, but I'd wager this was just an excuse to shut down my account. It's their system and their rules.

This is the message I received:

Quote
LOYAL3 focuses on providing a fee-free platform that brings brands together with people who love them. However, our services are only available to residents of the United States.

We have reason to believe that the address provided in your account profile is not your true place of residence, and in fact, you are residing outside of the United States.

Given this information, we are providing this notice to inform you that we are closing your LOYAL3 account.  Your account is now restricted to sell orders and withdrawals; no future deposits or purchases will be accepted.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 05:02:35 AM by cowstash »

ZMonet

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #281 on: April 02, 2014, 09:51:20 AM »


No offense, but if you're going to egregiously abuse this CC option, at least bang out some other CC minimum spends with that 70K bender, rather than pluck it all down on the SW card.  I mean, that's 6 Citi AA Advantage cards for 660,000 miles easily, which I conservatively value at $13000.

Where were you with the AA Advantage plan when I needed you? Lol.  Also, while it sounds good, it might be the switching of cards that is, at least in part, a red flag to get your account closed.  Who knows.  It seems like the red flags are: out of country; selling too quickly (waiting just a day didn't seem to matter) and large dollar amounts.  I would bet, based on what people have said, that you get flagged and then it is a subjective decision by the person reviewing your account whether you close or not. 

smedleyb

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #282 on: April 02, 2014, 10:13:58 AM »
Where were you with the AA Advantage plan when I needed you? Lol.  Also, while it sounds good, it might be the switching of cards that is, at least in part, a red flag to get your account closed.  Who knows.  It seems like the red flags are: out of country; selling too quickly (waiting just a day didn't seem to matter) and large dollar amounts.  I would bet, based on what people have said, that you get flagged and then it is a subjective decision by the person reviewing your account whether you close or not.

I'm gonna go with the walk, not run technique for now, but 70K is insane.  Ideally I would like to do 100K over two years spread out over multiple cards, but I doubt this offer sticks around much longer, especially with the death of Vanilla Reloads at CVS and the inevitable encroachment of HFCs (High Frequency Churners!)

Meanwhile, the stock I placed a buy order for last night is up 4% this morning.  Not sure if that's good or bad.  I guess we'll find out when my mysterious order confirmation arrives sometime in the next day or so. 

HFTers front running my order, obviously.  lol!

innerscorecard

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #283 on: April 02, 2014, 07:01:12 PM »
My account was closed today. The reason given by e-mail was NOT that I used the platform incorrectly, but that I am not currently located in the United States. Not sure if they found out through IP address used for logins or through my posts in this very thread. Stay careful out there guys. And pour a 40 for me. :p

Sadly, I got the same immediate closure last night. They must be moving through suspicious accounts and looking for reasons to shut them down since it's been a week since I purchased or sold anything, I've just been holding. I only bought $6k worth of stock on a CC.

I'm going to try to appeal as I am a US resident temporarily posted overseas, but I'd wager this was just an excuse to shut down my account. It's their system and their rules. If you are overseas, consider always using a VPN when connecting because it seems they look at IPs.

This is the message I received:

Quote
LOYAL3 focuses on providing a fee-free platform that brings brands together with people who love them. However, our services are only available to residents of the United States.

We have reason to believe that the address provided in your account profile is not your true place of residence, and in fact, you are residing outside of the United States.

Given this information, we are providing this notice to inform you that we are closing your LOYAL3 account.  Your account is now restricted to sell orders and withdrawals; no future deposits or purchases will be accepted.

Do you think it was from IPs, or this thread?

arebelspy

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #284 on: April 03, 2014, 07:21:08 AM »
Do you think it was from IPs, or this thread?

What would this thread have to do with anything?  Do you use the same login name on Loyal3 as your username here?
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innerscorecard

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #285 on: April 03, 2014, 08:32:01 AM »
I do not use the same username, but I discussed the credit cards I used, the stocks I bought, and basically which day transactions happened.

arebelspy

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #286 on: April 03, 2014, 08:54:53 AM »
I do not use the same username, but I discussed the credit cards I used, the stocks I bought, and basically which day transactions happened.

I find it unlikely an employee has enough time and/or motivation that they would dig out an account based on some transaction history corresponding to some forum posts.

I mean, possible, sure.  But very unlikely.  More likely you hit an automated search for people not using the platform the way they intended.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with three kids.
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GoldenStache

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #287 on: April 03, 2014, 10:37:49 AM »
I called them to see if I could get my account reopened.  Nope.  They said they are doing an internal review of all accounts that were recently closed to see if they should be reopened at a later time. 

He basically said that a lot of accounts were just closed and he did not think they would ever be reopened. 

Hmmmm.. Was it the fact that I changed cards (once) or spent $5k on the card after I switched?  (I asked him as well, he didn't know).


Has anyone had a transaction canceled because their account was being closed or did that last transaction always go through?


dragoncar

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #288 on: April 03, 2014, 11:50:42 AM »
I called them to see if I could get my account reopened.  Nope.  They said they are doing an internal review of all accounts that were recently closed to see if they should be reopened at a later time. 

He basically said that a lot of accounts were just closed and he did not think they would ever be reopened. 

Hmmmm.. Was it the fact that I changed cards (once) or spent $5k on the card after I switched?  (I asked him as well, he didn't know).


Has anyone had a transaction canceled because their account was being closed or did that last transaction always go through?

If I were Loyal3, I would just run a report on total CC fees paid, or maybe CC fees as a fraction of current holdings.  I would flag accounts outside, say, 2 standard deviations for manual review.

Spork

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #289 on: April 03, 2014, 11:55:55 AM »
Me wonders if Loyal3 has something like this going on.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/31/us-markets-hft-flashboys-idUSBREA2U03D20140331

This is sort of what I said waaaay up thread.  But the thing is: they don't have to do any timing to pull this off.  They're buying and selling once a day and there isn't a limit order available.  You buy "at market price" once a day.  It' super easy for them to add a few pennies to each purchase price (or subtract a few from the sell price).  You don't even know what exact time of day they're aiming at.

Cyrano

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #290 on: April 04, 2014, 05:05:49 AM »
Me wonders if Loyal3 has something like this going on.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/31/us-markets-hft-flashboys-idUSBREA2U03D20140331

This is sort of what I said waaaay up thread.  But the thing is: they don't have to do any timing to pull this off.  They're buying and selling once a day and there isn't a limit order available.  You buy "at market price" once a day.  It' super easy for them to add a few pennies to each purchase price (or subtract a few from the sell price).  You don't even know what exact time of day they're aiming at.

Front running your own customers is illegal, and hard to hide from an auditor.

sthubbar

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #291 on: April 23, 2014, 08:01:35 PM »
The last post is almost 3 weeks ago.

Have people stopped using Loyal3 because of these account closures?

Investing4Freedom

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #292 on: April 23, 2014, 08:48:25 PM »
I'm currently working on slowly building reward miles on a Barclay's Card with Loyal3.  I read some of the shutdown stories (and do not have the large sums to churn) so I'm keeping mine to approximately $1,000 at a time, holding shares for at least a couple days before selling, and not buying on the same day I sell or transfer funds from my account.  I just hit the $3k to get the sign-up bonus on my Barclay's card.  I'm also up ~$5 in ST gains!

tomq04

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #293 on: April 24, 2014, 10:05:55 AM »
The last post is almost 3 weeks ago.

Have people stopped using Loyal3 because of these account closures?

I have laid low.  I have a card to use exclusively, just waiting for these to calm down.  My new method will be holding for a full 2 days, not changing account info, and leaving partial shares behind.

elaine amj

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #294 on: April 24, 2014, 12:16:36 PM »
I just found this thread and not too deterred by shutdown stories as we basically want to meet minimum spends for sign up bonuses.

We credit card churn in a small way and have not delved into manufactured spending yet. This might be a good way to get our feet wet if I can convince my husband it is worth the risk.

GoldenStache

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #295 on: April 24, 2014, 06:23:28 PM »
I am curious to see what the smaller side of churning can get away with at Loyal.  I am going to wait a bit before I open another account for my DW.

DK

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #296 on: April 29, 2014, 07:48:03 PM »
Got my fancy Chase Saphire card, and put in some orders tonight via Loyal3. Let's hope I don't run into any problems with my order, and that the market tanks tomorrow and ramps up at the end of the week for some quick gains outside of the cc rewards!

tj

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #297 on: May 03, 2014, 01:08:31 PM »
i seem to still be allowed, but with GreatbridgeGroup shutting down, the best I can do outside of signup bonuses is 1.5% on the fidelity visa, which is a bit risky for me.


I did about 10k worth of spending so far, overall investment loss was about $50, but I got $550 in signup + spend on Chase Sapphire Preferred, 50,000 American miles from CitiBusiness, and $400 from US Bank...

Not bad...

thepokercab

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #298 on: May 09, 2014, 03:06:22 PM »
Looks like the gravy train is coming to and end.  I got this email today from Loyal 3:

Quote
Our mission is to provide easy and affordable access to investing in the brands you love. To continue our commitment to fee-free investing, we are instituting the following change.

Starting today, LOYAL3ís policy for the use of credit and debit cards has been updated. Credit and debit cards may be used only for pre-set stock purchase amounts of $10, $25, and $50 for both one-time orders and automatic monthly plans.

As always, you can use a checking account for all investments on LOYAL3. If you havenít already, you can set up your checking account now.

There are no policy changes for IPOs at this time.

Please contact us with any questions, weíre here to help.

Oh well... 

k-vette

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Re: Using a credit card to purchase stocks at Loyal3
« Reply #299 on: May 09, 2014, 03:07:31 PM »
Was just about to post that....  I got it too.