Author Topic: Switzerland: How should I buy index funds here?  (Read 104304 times)

Grog

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Re: Switzerland: How should I buy index funds here?
« Reply #300 on: January 17, 2017, 04:43:19 AM »
Yes. 100% sure. Example of an acc etf:
https://www.ictax.admin.ch/extern/it.html#/security/IE00B4L5Y983/20161231

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FIeuropeanstyle

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Re: Switzerland: How should I buy index funds here?
« Reply #301 on: March 20, 2017, 07:50:53 AM »
Yes. 100% sure. Example of an acc etf:
https://www.ictax.admin.ch/extern/it.html#/security/IE00B4L5Y983/20161231

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Hi Grog, thanks for your clear response. I see now that Swiss tax residents need to declare this funds on the "full tax declaration". I am "taxed at source" with  a B permit. Accordingly I only make a simplified version of the tax declaration and have no place to declare any funds or etfs. That is why I believe I do not have to pay tax on the acumulation etfs. Do you happend to know if people taxed at source still need to pay taxes on accumulation etfs ? I will try to contact the cantonal tax office anyway. 

nugget

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Re: Switzerland: How should I buy index funds here?
« Reply #302 on: March 21, 2017, 02:08:19 PM »
hey FIeuropeanstyle,
I advise you to directly call the "Kantonales Steueramt". At least in Zurich, they are very helpful and give precize answers to such questions.

I also advise you to use the swiss mustachian forum http://forum.mustachianpost.com/
more swiss traffic there than here :D

chestwood96

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Re: Switzerland: How should I buy index funds here?
« Reply #303 on: March 27, 2017, 12:17:57 PM »
I am not sure if this fits within this thread, but I kind of need some help.

When I got my tax form, I logged in to my investment accounts (Tuewealth and a DIY one with Saxo) and was pleasantly surprised that they are doing way better than expected (I know short-term gains are meaningless but it still feels pretty great). I downloaded the tax thing from Truewealth as usual and inserted the values according to the instructions.

When it came to the DIY account however I was pretty overwhelmed, there are so many reports I can generate and so many numbers I can get. Luckily my portfolio is very simple 80% Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF and 20% USB ETF SPI Mid and there only were 2 transactions each. I am fairly sure it has to go into the "Wertschriftenverzeichnis" (at least the SPI Mid) but I do not know how exactly. Could somebody point me into the right direction. A censored example might help a lot.

samuck

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Re: Switzerland: How should I buy index funds here?
« Reply #304 on: March 27, 2017, 12:45:39 PM »
Hi chestwood96, just did my taxes, so I know ;-) Both ETFs belong in your Wertschriftenverzeichnis, at their market value per year-end as they are part of your taxable net worth. It's quite easy: you will find the ETFs by searching the ISIN number in the respective field. Enter your purchases throughout the year, and the online tax tool will even calculate dividends. These are considered income, so you will be taxed on them. Hope that helps!

chestwood96

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Re: Switzerland: How should I buy index funds here?
« Reply #305 on: March 27, 2017, 01:31:26 PM »
Hi chestwood96, just did my taxes, so I know ;-) Both ETFs belong in your Wertschriftenverzeichnis, at their market value per year-end as they are part of your taxable net worth. It's quite easy: you will find the ETFs by searching the ISIN number in the respective field. Enter your purchases throughout the year, and the online tax tool will even calculate dividends. These are considered income, so you will be taxed on them. Hope that helps!
Well that was a lot easier than expected, thank you very much.
I definitely underestimated that tax software.
Now for write-offs and stuff, taxes are still a pain in the ass.
It is probably not going to be that expensive though since i just get paid a "big boy" salary since August.

Stashing Swiss-style

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Re: Switzerland: How should I buy index funds here?
« Reply #306 on: March 28, 2017, 06:07:37 AM »
Hi Chestwood96 - how are you finding Truewealth?  I'm about to launch myself into the world of investing and they are my chosen target.....

chestwood96

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Re: Switzerland: How should I buy index funds here?
« Reply #307 on: March 28, 2017, 06:42:36 AM »
Hi Chestwood96 - how are you finding Truewealth?  I'm about to launch myself into the world of investing and they are my chosen target.....
To be honest I stopped investing in it after I started the DIY one. The main reason for that was the lack of control(I decided to use the stocks + cash investment strategy and truewealt does not allow 100% stock).

But exept for it massively underperforming the FTSE AW it is a great platform, it also seems fairly foolproof.
On the other hand I am probably the wrong person to judge this as my decisions are based on math that is probably wrong.

I am also pretty shure I had a thread abou this last year.

Expatriate

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Switzerland: How should I buy index funds here?
« Reply #308 on: September 03, 2017, 05:05:27 AM »
Also look at DeGiro, a European low-cost broker which recently opened up in Switzerland. They have 1500 ETFs which you can trade for free. I've used them now for a couple of months, happy enough with 'em.

Stashing Swiss-style

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Re: Switzerland: How should I buy index funds here?
« Reply #309 on: September 04, 2017, 12:24:37 PM »
Thanks - I'll take a look at DeGiro.

Kenyastach

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Re: Switzerland: How should I buy index funds here?
« Reply #310 on: September 19, 2017, 06:44:53 PM »
Hello all,

I just discovered this forum/thread, and first would like to thank all for the invaluable discussions.  Best Thread Ever. :-)

Having read the entire 300+ post thread from 2014 carefully, I have a some questions for the collective wisdom here, given my slightly different situation:

I'm a Swiss citizen (I also hold a few other passports), but I left Switzerland about a decade ago, so not a Swiss-resident currently.  Currently residing in Kenya, which means most Swiss (and other OECD-based) banks/brokerage accounts won't have me as a client (deemed too risky compliance-wise or whatever), and those that do, charge insanely high custody and other fees - in the many thousands per year just to have the privilege of being able to by stocks/ETFs. 

It now seems that through Soliswiss (the swiss aborad group), I can open an account with Swissquote (Yay!).   Through this thread I *think* learned a few valuable nuggets of information to make the process most cost and tax efficient for my case:

1. I want to avoid the Swiss (or any country) withholding tax.  Since I am not a Swiss-resident, I will not be able to offset this 35% witholding, so a clear tax for me.  (Incidentally, I am legally not a tax resident of any country, since in the only place I meet residency requirements, currently Kenya, I am exempt from tax due to my employer's host country agreement, so no scope for claiming back under a double taxation treaty).    If I understood correctly, this means that if I purchase ETFs that are domiciled in Ireland or Luxembourg I can avoid this withholding?

2. I am looking for a simple solution.  My (financial) life is already very complicated.  I am diversified through investments in real-estate, and my ETF investing horizon is around 25 years, so am not too concerned at this stage with balancing a portfolio with too many ETFs, currencies, or a balance of equity and bonds.   I further believe (perhaps wrongly, happy to hear views) that today's financial markets are highly correlated, so if a major crash happens in the US (e.g. S&P 500 crashes), then all OECD markets (and even BRICS etc.) would be similarly affected.  There are of course frontier markets that are less correlated, but again, too complicated  (and anyway hard to find on OECD platforms) for me at this stage, and again, looking for simplicity. 

3. I am not clear about other taxes involved.  I am particularly thinking about the US Estate tax (which applies to US equities, and foreigners are subject to 40% Estate Tax when they pass away after only $60k - as opposed to $5m for US citizens).  I assume that buying a Irish domiciled ETF that tracks S&P 500 would NOT be considered a US equity and therefore not subject to US Estate tax - does anyone know whether this is a correct assumption?

In light of the above, my current thinking is to buy a single ETF such as: iShares Core S&P 500 UCITS ETF (Acc)  // ISIN IE00B5BMR087, Valor Number 10737041

I am thinking about buying around $200k worth of this ETF, and adding another $25k or so every year after that.   Given that it has a TER of 0.07% and having consulted the list of ETFs available in the 'Dynamic savings ETF' of swissquote, I think I'd prefer to have the normal account, which means 0.1% more per year (initially, will decrease as I pass the $200k level), as this seems a better fit for what I'm after and even with the custody fees comes to a lower effective annual TER  (0.17% and dropping as portfolio grows) for me than the funds I see in the available list elsewhere.

Any views on this?    Thanks very much in advance for any insights you can offer with regard to the strategy and particularly the total cost and tax elements.