Author Topic: Stop worrying about the 4% rule  (Read 941781 times)

Retire-Canada

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8138
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2000 on: October 16, 2021, 01:08:33 PM »
FS is on my Do Opposite List just like George Costanza. Whatever he says turn it around and you'll have a good game plan.


nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 15286
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2002 on: October 16, 2021, 03:05:06 PM »
Has this been discussed: https://www.financialsamurai.com/proper-safe-withdrawal-rate/

Personally I disregarded most of it - but I am interested in whether others share the same view that 4% is no longer relevant in the low bond yield environment ?

In his search for clicks Sam crossed over to the disreputable side. His later posts are filled with wild and intentional inaccuracies, all seemingly contrived to push some kick-bait article.

Too bad - at one point he was worth reading.

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8880
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2003 on: October 16, 2021, 03:23:40 PM »
Won't even click the link because Sam can eat a big ol' bag of d!cks.

Agreed

Malcat

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9083
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2004 on: October 16, 2021, 03:43:25 PM »
Has this been discussed: https://www.financialsamurai.com/proper-safe-withdrawal-rate/

Personally I disregarded most of it - but I am interested in whether others share the same view that 4% is no longer relevant in the low bond yield environment ?

Yeah, it's probably been discussed, we used to discuss FS articles until we all basically agreed to stop feeding the troll.

Many members here won't click SF links because he's lost that much credibility.

ixtap

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3317
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2005 on: October 16, 2021, 04:22:43 PM »
Just from the title it looks like a reprint of what was originally a guest blog. If that is the case, the original host pulled it because there was so much shoddy logic involved.

DadJokes

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2091
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2006 on: October 18, 2021, 09:34:56 AM »
Has this been discussed: click-bait

Personally I disregarded most of it - but I am interested in whether others share the same view that 4% is no longer relevant in the low bond yield environment ?

Nothing from Financial Samurai should ever be discussed, other than to mock. However, it's probably best not to give him clicks at all, as it just encourages him.

Jamese20

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 233
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2007 on: November 02, 2021, 01:05:45 PM »


But in reality he started a blog for fun and it got to a point where it was making in two years what he (and spouse) retired on to begin with.   Some of which he spends, some of which is donated, some is invested in other stuff (commercial buildings, homes). It all comes back to the blog (and forum), without that he wouldn't have the other stuff.   The funny thing is the blog was only good for the first 5ish years, after that it was all garbage
[/quote]


I find this part of MMM totally dishonest. He talks about how he just casually tapped away at this blog thing for "friends" and then all of a sudden it just happened to blow up and now creates a fortune by accident almost. This is total dishonesty - anyone who has attempted to create a blog knows how much time and effort it takes to create a blog that doesnt succeed let alone a one this successful. When I find such things like this it pretty much puts the whole value of the blog into question for alot of people who are making such life altering decisions

SwordGuy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8283
  • Location: Fayetteville, NC
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2008 on: November 02, 2021, 01:33:31 PM »

Quote
But in reality he started a blog for fun and it got to a point where it was making in two years what he (and spouse) retired on to begin with.   Some of which he spends, some of which is donated, some is invested in other stuff (commercial buildings, homes). It all comes back to the blog (and forum), without that he wouldn't have the other stuff.   The funny thing is the blog was only good for the first 5ish years, after that it was all garbage


I find this part of MMM totally dishonest. He talks about how he just casually tapped away at this blog thing for "friends" and then all of a sudden it just happened to blow up and now creates a fortune by accident almost. This is total dishonesty - anyone who has attempted to create a blog knows how much time and effort it takes to create a blog that doesnt succeed let alone a one this successful. When I find such things like this it pretty much puts the whole value of the blog into question for alot of people who are making such life altering decisions

For some people, writing is slow and hard.  For some it's fast and easy.    MMM writes like he's explaining stuff over a few beers and adding in some over-the-top sarcasm for fun as he does it.

I've written a whole lot of technical articles and quite a few of them were written pretty quickly, as in an evening with a few hours a couple of days later for editing.   Others were real slogs.   Assuming you have solid writing skills, it just depends on what you're writing, whether you find "the right way" to present the material right off the bat, how well you know the material, how much research you have to do or how much supporting material you have to produce.

It's pretty obvious about when the transition from that phase to the next, the "I've got to come up with something to write" took place.  The pace of writing really slowed down, the topics were (often) more forced, etc.


Retire-Canada

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8138
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2009 on: November 02, 2021, 01:40:18 PM »
If MMM was promoting the idea of retiring early by easily starting a blog and getting rich I'd agree that not actionable advice for most people. OTOH his message spend less, invest more and be happy is hard to be too critical of and anyone who can hit a reasonable savings rate can follow his index fund investing plan and have a good chance of success.

SwordGuy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8283
  • Location: Fayetteville, NC
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2010 on: November 02, 2021, 02:24:17 PM »
If MMM was promoting the idea of retiring early by easily starting a blog and getting rich I'd agree that not actionable advice for most people. OTOH his message spend less, invest more and be happy is hard to be too critical of and anyone who can hit a reasonable savings rate can follow his index fund investing plan and have a good chance of success.

Absolutely!   Given that "Half of U.S. adults canít read a book written at the 8th-grade level." we can't expect most American adults to have solid writing skills.   Or even decent writing skills!   Without those foundational skills the act of writing a decent article doesn't get done quickly.


Jamese20

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 233
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2011 on: November 02, 2021, 02:43:32 PM »

Quote
But in reality he started a blog for fun and it got to a point where it was making in two years what he (and spouse) retired on to begin with.   Some of which he spends, some of which is donated, some is invested in other stuff (commercial buildings, homes). It all comes back to the blog (and forum), without that he wouldn't have the other stuff.   The funny thing is the blog was only good for the first 5ish years, after that it was all garbage


I find this part of MMM totally dishonest. He talks about how he just casually tapped away at this blog thing for "friends" and then all of a sudden it just happened to blow up and now creates a fortune by accident almost. This is total dishonesty - anyone who has attempted to create a blog knows how much time and effort it takes to create a blog that doesnt succeed let alone a one this successful. When I find such things like this it pretty much puts the whole value of the blog into question for alot of people who are making such life altering decisions

For some people, writing is slow and hard.  For some it's fast and easy.    MMM writes like he's explaining stuff over a few beers and adding in some over-the-top sarcasm for fun as he does it.

I've written a whole lot of technical articles and quite a few of them were written pretty quickly, as in an evening with a few hours a couple of days later for editing.   Others were real slogs.   Assuming you have solid writing skills, it just depends on what you're writing, whether you find "the right way" to present the material right off the bat, how well you know the material, how much research you have to do or how much supporting material you have to produce.

It's pretty obvious about when the transition from that phase to the next, the "I've got to come up with something to write" took place.  The pace of writing really slowed down, the topics were (often) more forced, etc.

the general point i am making here is that its quite clear he worked his butt off making this blog, it takes huge effort and focus to create something like this. He didnt just casually type away and accidentally fall into a blogging success. I simply think it is not genuine to portray such effort and focus in this trivial way. He actively focused on making a money making blog - that is very clear to me

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8880
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2012 on: November 02, 2021, 03:00:37 PM »

Quote
But in reality he started a blog for fun and it got to a point where it was making in two years what he (and spouse) retired on to begin with.   Some of which he spends, some of which is donated, some is invested in other stuff (commercial buildings, homes). It all comes back to the blog (and forum), without that he wouldn't have the other stuff.   The funny thing is the blog was only good for the first 5ish years, after that it was all garbage


I find this part of MMM totally dishonest. He talks about how he just casually tapped away at this blog thing for "friends" and then all of a sudden it just happened to blow up and now creates a fortune by accident almost. This is total dishonesty - anyone who has attempted to create a blog knows how much time and effort it takes to create a blog that doesnt succeed let alone a one this successful. When I find such things like this it pretty much puts the whole value of the blog into question for alot of people who are making such life altering decisions

For some people, writing is slow and hard.  For some it's fast and easy.    MMM writes like he's explaining stuff over a few beers and adding in some over-the-top sarcasm for fun as he does it.

I've written a whole lot of technical articles and quite a few of them were written pretty quickly, as in an evening with a few hours a couple of days later for editing.   Others were real slogs.   Assuming you have solid writing skills, it just depends on what you're writing, whether you find "the right way" to present the material right off the bat, how well you know the material, how much research you have to do or how much supporting material you have to produce.

It's pretty obvious about when the transition from that phase to the next, the "I've got to come up with something to write" took place.  The pace of writing really slowed down, the topics were (often) more forced, etc.

the general point i am making here is that its quite clear he worked his butt off making this blog, it takes huge effort and focus to create something like this. He didnt just casually type away and accidentally fall into a blogging success. I simply think it is not genuine to portray such effort and focus in this trivial way. He actively focused on making a money making blog - that is very clear to me

thats just one of the many pitfalls that could happen to any early retiree doing something they enjoy.  Then taking a few enterprising steps once the base was established.  I do all sorts of crap for fun and to make my life more efficient that eventually turns into side income.  shame on these early retirees for making money.

the message doesnt change though and its a really good message and easy to follow and it worked for me. and guess what i'm going to make like 15-20k a year doing about 5 hours of work a year dang it i'm not retired!

Retire-Canada

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8138
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2013 on: November 02, 2021, 04:03:55 PM »
Absolutely!   Given that "Half of U.S. adults canít read a book written at the 8th-grade level." we can't expect most American adults to have solid writing skills.   Or even decent writing skills!   Without those foundational skills the act of writing a decent article doesn't get done quickly.

It wouldn't even matter if you were equally talented/perhaps more talented than MMM. Jacob over at ERE had a good article about success at blogging and the upshot was timing is everything. Once the dominant sources are in place in a niche it's hard for a new player to break into the market. MMM had a very healthy dose of luck that determined his blogging success that just can't be replicated. However, given he had saved and invested in a solid FIRE plan he would be a successful, if anonymous, retiree had he not turned out to be a famous blogger.

You are right though poor communications skills in the wider population limit the number of people that could write high quality blog posts if they wanted to.

pecunia

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2034
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2014 on: November 02, 2021, 05:38:36 PM »
Absolutely!   Given that "Half of U.S. adults canít read a book written at the 8th-grade level." we can't expect most American adults to have solid writing skills.   Or even decent writing skills!   Without those foundational skills the act of writing a decent article doesn't get done quickly.

It wouldn't even matter if you were equally talented/perhaps more talented than MMM. Jacob over at ERE had a good article about success at blogging and the upshot was timing is everything. Once the dominant sources are in place in a niche it's hard for a new player to break into the market. MMM had a very healthy dose of luck that determined his blogging success that just can't be replicated. However, given he had saved and invested in a solid FIRE plan he would be a successful, if anonymous, retiree had he not turned out to be a famous blogger.

You are right though poor communications skills in the wider population limit the number of people that could write high quality blog posts if they wanted to.

Well -he's Canadian.  I have been told by Canadians that they have a greater emphasis on the use of proper English in their education system  - so maybe better writing skills should have been better expected of him.  To be honest with you, I have never heard of a Canadian hillbilly.  There are some Canadian Country & Western singers that pretend, but that's just not the same.

I've been told inflation is upon us.  The 4 percent rule is supposed to work with inflation.  Cross your fingers.

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 15286
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2015 on: November 02, 2021, 05:55:05 PM »

the general point i am making here is that its quite clear he worked his butt off making this blog, it takes huge effort and focus to create something like this. He didnt just casually type away and accidentally fall into a blogging success. I simply think it is not genuine to portray such effort and focus in this trivial way. He actively focused on making a money making blog - that is very clear to me

Doesnít seem that way to me. Shrug.
Peteís got a very analytical brain with a pinch of OCD tossed in. For those of us that have been around since the early days it didnít seem like there was much of a plan or a desire to create what this grew into. From a marketing/blogging perspective he pretty much didnít do all the things one would do if they were trying to gain as many followers as possible. As his audience grew, his blog postings took a nosedive. He waited a year to launch the forum, and when he did he largely ignored it. He didnít hire anyone to ďgrow the businessĒ and the server problems were infamous for years. His social media presence remains scant and thereís never been much effort to draw people in via cross-pollinating. And he keeps turning down offers from potential buyers.

The phrase ďlucky rather than goodĒ seems an apt way of describing MMMís (the persona) rise to fame. The timing fit and the space was still pretty empty.

tooqk4u22

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2584
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2016 on: November 02, 2021, 08:05:45 PM »


But in reality he started a blog for fun and it got to a point where it was making in two years what he (and spouse) retired on to begin with.   Some of which he spends, some of which is donated, some is invested in other stuff (commercial buildings, homes). It all comes back to the blog (and forum), without that he wouldn't have the other stuff.   The funny thing is the blog was only good for the first 5ish years, after that it was all garbage


I find this part of MMM totally dishonest. He talks about how he just casually tapped away at this blog thing for "friends" and then all of a sudden it just happened to blow up and now creates a fortune by accident almost. This is total dishonesty - anyone who has attempted to create a blog knows how much time and effort it takes to create a blog that doesnt succeed let alone a one this successful. When I find such things like this it pretty much puts the whole value of the blog into question for alot of people who are making such life altering decisions
[/quote]

timing is everything but the portrait mattered too (after financial crisis/ great recession written by a middle class high income white guy)  that said it can be different.  ERE was a little early and a lot exteme....Basically MMM by accident or design timed it great and caught white lightning, and put out some decent content for 3-5 years and then mailed it in or sold out after that but by that point the hook was in.   


The forum is probably what makes him the most money...suckered (apparently this guy)

ender

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6849
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2017 on: November 03, 2021, 09:37:33 AM »
stop worrying about MMM's motivations

:-)

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8880
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2018 on: November 03, 2021, 09:38:55 AM »
stop worrying about MMM's motivations

:-)

haha exactly - show of hands who benefited from what he did in a huge way? 

alright now who has paid him a dime outside of maybe using a referral link to a tool or credit card that made you life better?

Cool so who cares what he made he made us all millionaires. some multimillionaires. 

frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4932
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2019 on: November 03, 2021, 09:40:17 AM »
Some of us are very soon to be millionaires.

TomTX

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4624
  • Location: Texas

pecunia

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2034
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2021 on: November 03, 2021, 11:15:14 AM »
stop worrying about MMM's motivations

:-)

Right!  If you want to worry there's always nuclear warfare and the global warming thing.  That ought to be enough for you.

Jamese20

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 233
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2022 on: November 04, 2021, 05:29:38 AM »
stop worrying about MMM's motivations

:-)

Right!  If you want to worry there's always nuclear warfare and the global warming thing.  That ought to be enough for you.

Nobody is worrying, it is a matter of ethics, the site name is clearly Marketing effort in of itself alone. I think the intention was very clear from the start with focused effort. Fair play to him, I wish I knew how to build one even half as successful, heck a 5th successful even. Just some integrity about it would be preferred

DadJokes

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2091
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2023 on: November 04, 2021, 06:32:02 AM »
stop worrying about MMM's motivations

:-)

Right!  If you want to worry there's always nuclear warfare and the global warming thing.  That ought to be enough for you.

Nobody is worrying, it is a matter of ethics, the site name is clearly Marketing effort in of itself alone. I think the intention was very clear from the start with focused effort. Fair play to him, I wish I knew how to build one even half as successful, heck a 5th successful even. Just some integrity about it would be preferred

Have you seen the clip where he explains how he came up with the name? It literally sounded like something he came up with while drinking.

Jamese20

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 233
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2024 on: November 04, 2021, 07:41:33 AM »
stop worrying about MMM's motivations

:-)

Right!  If you want to worry there's always nuclear warfare and the global warming thing.  That ought to be enough for you.

Nobody is worrying, it is a matter of ethics, the site name is clearly Marketing effort in of itself alone. I think the intention was very clear from the start with focused effort. Fair play to him, I wish I knew how to build one even half as successful, heck a 5th successful even. Just some integrity about it would be preferred

Have you seen the clip where he explains how he came up with the name? It literally sounded like something he came up with while drinking.

Its an internet marketing type name with the 3 MMMs, if you believe the idea he just sat around drinking and the next thing you know all this is built, well I don't know what to say. Hours upon hours went into this.

Malcat

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9083
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2025 on: November 04, 2021, 07:49:53 AM »
stop worrying about MMM's motivations

:-)

Right!  If you want to worry there's always nuclear warfare and the global warming thing.  That ought to be enough for you.

Nobody is worrying, it is a matter of ethics, the site name is clearly Marketing effort in of itself alone. I think the intention was very clear from the start with focused effort. Fair play to him, I wish I knew how to build one even half as successful, heck a 5th successful even. Just some integrity about it would be preferred

Have you seen the clip where he explains how he came up with the name? It literally sounded like something he came up with while drinking.

Its an internet marketing type name with the 3 MMMs, if you believe the idea he just sat around drinking and the next thing you know all this is built, well I don't know what to say. Hours upon hours went into this.

True, but someone can put hours and hours of work into a project with absolutely no intention or expectation of it becoming profitable.

I've personally invested hundreds and hundreds of hours into projects that might, buy probably won't pay off, and some of them do and most of them don't.

If one of them makes money, I still maintain that I was just noodling around and having fun, not trying to make a business out of it.

Having a project become successful is a very different process than setting out to build a successful business.

EscapeVelocity2020

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3640
  • Age: 48
  • Location: Houston
    • EscapeVelocity2020
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2026 on: November 04, 2021, 08:05:33 AM »
stop worrying about MMM's motivations

:-)

Right!  If you want to worry there's always nuclear warfare and the global warming thing.  That ought to be enough for you.

Nobody is worrying, it is a matter of ethics, the site name is clearly Marketing effort in of itself alone. I think the intention was very clear from the start with focused effort. Fair play to him, I wish I knew how to build one even half as successful, heck a 5th successful even. Just some integrity about it would be preferred

Have you seen the clip where he explains how he came up with the name? It literally sounded like something he came up with while drinking.

Its an internet marketing type name with the 3 MMMs, if you believe the idea he just sat around drinking and the next thing you know all this is built, well I don't know what to say. Hours upon hours went into this.

True, but someone can put hours and hours of work into a project with absolutely no intention or expectation of it becoming profitable.

I've personally invested hundreds and hundreds of hours into projects that might, buy probably won't pay off, and some of them do and most of them don't.

If one of them makes money, I still maintain that I was just noodling around and having fun, not trying to make a business out of it.

Having a project become successful is a very different process than setting out to build a successful business.

I'm not sure why we're 'disagreeing' about all of this on the 4% Rule thread, unless @Jamese20 actually does not think MMM / Pete could have survived on 4% of his 'stache.  There is no doubt MMM spent time and effort turning this in to a profitable enterprise, blogging is not easy.  Just managing the comments on a post is a PITA, let alone all the solicitations and business emails that come with the success he has seen.  You also have a lot of back end stuff like scaling so your site runs smoothly, updating old posts that you've changed your mind on (like his praise of his breadmaker), and managing the financials - taxes and whatnot.  But who cares?  I believe MMM would have stayed ER (at least, true to his own definition of 'retired') even if he hadn't made a dime from his blog.  His life might have looked a lot different, but he would not have gone back to work in software.

If you disagree with that, then maybe you can explain why the 4% rule would have failed for him and we can move on to a more productive discussion...  Just my 2 cents

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 15286
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2027 on: November 04, 2021, 08:24:51 AM »
stop worrying about MMM's motivations

:-)

Right!  If you want to worry there's always nuclear warfare and the global warming thing.  That ought to be enough for you.

Nobody is worrying, it is a matter of ethics, the site name is clearly Marketing effort in of itself alone. I think the intention was very clear from the start with focused effort. Fair play to him, I wish I knew how to build one even half as successful, heck a 5th successful even. Just some integrity about it would be preferred

Have you seen the clip where he explains how he came up with the name? It literally sounded like something he came up with while drinking.

Its an internet marketing type name with the 3 MMMs, if you believe the idea he just sat around drinking and the next thing you know all this is built, well I don't know what to say. Hours upon hours went into this.

You keep talking bout the 'ethics' of it all and suggesting this is some long drawn out plan, despite any claims.  I don't really get your ethical argument, but whatever. A far better case has been made that his annual accounting of expenses which ignore things like the Boliva trip seem to have far more legitimacy. 

If Pete had a detailed long-game with creating MMM he did a pretty crap-tastic job implementing it.  As I said, he pretty much didn't do all the things a blogger focused on generating revenue and followers normally do. As for it taking hours and hours to come up with the concept of MMM - meh; i've spent hours coming up with band names I'll never start, construction projects I'll never do and screenplays I'll never get out of my sketchbook. At the same time I've spent hundreds of hours on hobbies I don't expect to monetize (even though some occasionally do).  Spending time on something doesn't mean diddly.

Retire-Canada

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8138
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2028 on: November 04, 2021, 08:44:00 AM »
I'm not sure why we're 'disagreeing' about all of this on the 4% Rule thread,...

Good question. The more OT posts in this thread the less useful it is for people in the future as a resource.

Jamese20

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 233
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2029 on: November 04, 2021, 08:51:06 AM »
stop worrying about MMM's motivations

:-)

Right!  If you want to worry there's always nuclear warfare and the global warming thing.  That ought to be enough for you.

Nobody is worrying, it is a matter of ethics, the site name is clearly Marketing effort in of itself alone. I think the intention was very clear from the start with focused effort. Fair play to him, I wish I knew how to build one even half as successful, heck a 5th successful even. Just some integrity about it would be preferred

Have you seen the clip where he explains how he came up with the name? It literally sounded like something he came up with while drinking.

Its an internet marketing type name with the 3 MMMs, if you believe the idea he just sat around drinking and the next thing you know all this is built, well I don't know what to say. Hours upon hours went into this.

True, but someone can put hours and hours of work into a project with absolutely no intention or expectation of it becoming profitable.

I've personally invested hundreds and hundreds of hours into projects that might, buy probably won't pay off, and some of them do and most of them don't.

If one of them makes money, I still maintain that I was just noodling around and having fun, not trying to make a business out of it.

Having a project become successful is a very different process than setting out to build a successful business.

I'm not sure why we're 'disagreeing' about all of this on the 4% Rule thread, unless @Jamese20 actually does not think MMM / Pete could have survived on 4% of his 'stache.  There is no doubt MMM spent time and effort turning this in to a profitable enterprise, blogging is not easy.  Just managing the comments on a post is a PITA, let alone all the solicitations and business emails that come with the success he has seen.  You also have a lot of back end stuff like scaling so your site runs smoothly, updating old posts that you've changed your mind on (like his praise of his breadmaker), and managing the financials - taxes and whatnot.  But who cares?  I believe MMM would have stayed ER (at least, true to his own definition of 'retired') even if he hadn't made a dime from his blog.  His life might have looked a lot different, but he would not have gone back to work in software.

If you disagree with that, then maybe you can explain why the 4% rule would have failed for him and we can move on to a more productive discussion...  Just my 2 cents

No it is a valid point, I was just agreeing and aligning with the original claims regarding expenses. I did not mean to hi-Jack it, the 4% rule is sound you will not get any arguments from me - in fact 5% could even be a play

SwordGuy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8283
  • Location: Fayetteville, NC
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2030 on: November 04, 2021, 09:00:29 AM »
The MMM website was pretty plain Jane back in 2012 when I first found it.   Even now it's not all that fancy.   He didn't interact with the blog comments all that much and only for a day or three per post.  He's pretty much ignored the forum.   In the early days he had volunteers help him with issues with the forum.

He had compelling and useful content and he added new content fairly regularly when he started out.  There really weren't that many people doing personal finance blogs and damn few from a perspective near his.  That's what it takes.

DaTrill

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 47
Re: Stop worrying about the 4% rule
« Reply #2031 on: December 02, 2021, 04:08:23 PM »
Since this has nothing to do with the 4% rule, has anyone ever seen Pete, Dorsey and Zuckerberg in the same room at the same time?  MMM forum and blog might be another CIA scheme?  What will happen to MMM when "Pete" if that's his real name, retires from the CIA?